History of Feminism
Related: About this forumHow to see a woman: A conversation between a father and son
Hey, come here. Let me talk to you. I saw you look at her. Im not judging you or shaming you. I know why you did. I get it. But we have to talk about it because how you look at a woman matters.
A lot of people will try and tell you that a woman should watch how she dresses so she doesnt tempt you to look at her wrongly. Here is what I will tell you. It is a womans responsibility to dress herself in the morning. It is your responsibility to look at her like a human being regardless of what she is wearing. You will feel the temptation to blame her for your wandering eyes because of what she is wearing or not wearing. But dont. Dont play the victim. You are not a helpless victim when it comes to your eyes. You have full control over them. Exercise that control. Train them to look her in the eyes. Discipline yourself to see her, not her clothes or her body. The moment you play the victim, you fall into the lie that you are simply embodied reaction to external stimuli unable to determine right from wrong, human from flesh.
Look right at me. That is a ridiculous lie.
You are more than that. And the woman you are looking at is more than her clothes. She is more than her body. There is a lot of talk about how men objectify women, and largely, it is true. Humans objectify the things they love in effort to control them. If you truly love a person, do not reduce them to an object. The moment you objectify another human woman or man you give up your humanity.
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Unfortunately, much of how the sexes interact with each is rooted in fear. Fear of rejection, fear of abuse, fear of being out of control. In some ways, the church has added to this. We fear each other because we have been taught the other is dangerous. Weve been a taught a womans body will cause men to sin. Were told that if a woman shows too much of her body men will do stupid things. Lets be clear: A womans body is not dangerous to you. Her body will not cause you harm. It will not make you do stupid things. If you do stupid things, it is because you chose to do stupid things. So dont contribute to the fear that exists between men and women.
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http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865585841/How-to-see-a-woman-A-conversation-between-a-father-and-son.html?pg=all
The next time someone tries to tie patriarchy and misogyny to religion, remember this. And remember all the misogynist/rape apologist atheists out there.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)constand societal conditioning comes into play. we like to pretend it is simply nature. and it is not. we teach our boys. we teach our girls. at eveyr turn.
wouoldnt it be absolutely blissful if our fathers would actually teach their boys humanity instead of their god given privilege.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)You're goddamned right it would.
I tell you sea, I'm damn tired of men explaining feminism to women. If men want to be allies - they need to stop lecturing women, and start talking to other men. That's what 'male feminists' don't seem to be able to grasp. It is not their place to explain to women how their actions are or are not feminist. Not by a fucking longshot.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)this would be the point. this is what men need to recognize if they want to claim feminism. you are absolutely right.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)and it really pissed me off. This woman had used the b-word as an insult, but in the context of a comic. Now you know what I think about that word, and especially its use as a pejorative... but this dude comes in and starts lecturing her, talking about 'first of all don't call women b-words' and it was all I could do not to jump down his throat. And this is a good ally. Someone who really gets it. But still there he went, falling into that same behavior of coming into a feminist space and tryna be the boss... fuckin GRRRRRRR.
ismnotwasm
(41,986 posts)Don't get me wrong; I don't think that has one goddam motherfucking (on a "Pulp Fiction" kick here) thing to do with how they animalize women, I thing those are separate topics, but to act helpless in the face of sexual desire, to objectify just because you can, defend it as sexual choice and freedom-- that's just messed up.
TheJames
(120 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)with atheists as a whole. It really is a privileged white male club, and the horrible things they do to feminist writers (and women in general, but primarily towards feminists) makes them no better than the religious.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)and not all of them are men, either.