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ismnotwasm

(41,977 posts)
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 12:46 AM Apr 2013

Ending oppression in the Middle East: A Muslim feminist call to arms

(This one's for you BainsBain)

Saudi Arabia's religious police have recently allowed women to ride bikes in parks and recreational areas on the condition that they are accompanied by a male relative and dressed in an abaya. I wonder if the male relative has to be riding a bike too? Or does he simply hold the leash attached to the bike?

In 2011 women were allowed to work in lingerie stores in Saudi Arabia. Previously, men were selling women bras and panties because the avoidance of "mingling" between the sexes at work meant that most shops had male assistants. So a man staring at your chest to guess your bra size was acceptable, but driving a car is not.

Every day it is a struggle to reconcile my deep conviction in, and devotion to, the Islamic faith with the sickening reports of abuses of many women in the name of Islam. Not for a moment do I think that the oppression and brutality directed against women stem from sincerely held religious beliefs. Whether it is targeting girls who seek an education in Afghanistan or treating women like second-class citizens in Saudi Arabia, the fact is that the oppression of women is essentially about coveting power and dominating women - a lust for control that is both illogical and pathetic, collapsing under the slightest interrogation.

As a devout Muslim woman, I find it abhorrent that Islam is used to justify the subjugation of women in many parts of the Muslim world. I refuse to be an apologist, to minimise this appalling state of affairs. But equally, I am no Ayaan Hirsi Ali or hysterical Femen-devotee who peddles a vulgar form of Islamophobia in the misguided belief that a liberated woman is a woman who has rejected Islam. While I'm sick to death, as a Muslim woman, of the hypocrisy and nonsensical fatwas, I confess that I'm also tired of white women who think the answer is flashing a bit of breast so that those "poor," "infantilised" Muslim women can be "rescued" by the "enlightened" West - as if freedom was the sole preserve of secular feminists.

Ultimately, I do not see Islam as the problem; I see it as the platform for change. I believe in gender equality - including the rights of Muslim women to dress as they please - because, as a Muslim feminist, I value agency, choice and autonomy. Moreover, I have deep conviction that these values are integral to the Islamic tradition, and are not simply ideals imported from the West.


http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/04/29/3747543.htm


This is a very interesting read.
21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Ending oppression in the Middle East: A Muslim feminist call to arms (Original Post) ismnotwasm Apr 2013 OP
It is very interesting BainsBane Apr 2013 #1
Her discussion of veiling is interesting BainsBane Apr 2013 #2
It's been a common reaction ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #3
I've wasted far too much time BainsBane Apr 2013 #5
Indeed. SunSeeker Apr 2013 #4
women in Brazil think so also JI7 Apr 2013 #6
That is really the limit. BainsBane Apr 2013 #7
thanks for the article. will read later. to me, it has always been in your face, obvious. to see seabeyond Apr 2013 #8
A jury voted 6-0 to Leave it Alone Sekhmets Daughter Apr 2013 #9
Of course juror 4 was a favorite. Lol. These alerts can be interesting. Thanks all 6. Nt seabeyond Apr 2013 #10
So glad that came back 6-0 redqueen Apr 2013 #11
Yep! Sekhmets Daughter Apr 2013 #12
I have a great deal of sympathy for women such as the author, and in general geek tragedy Apr 2013 #13
Those are good points ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #14
Patriarchy losing the major religions would be like the Republicans losing Texas. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #15
LOL ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #16
No, they'd just become Objectivists. nt geek tragedy Apr 2013 #17
Yeah, not much of a leap is it? ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #18
The cult of Mammon endures. nt geek tragedy Apr 2013 #19
the women of the wall won a major court victory last week Mosby Apr 2013 #20
I did see that ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #21

BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
2. Her discussion of veiling is interesting
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 12:59 AM
Apr 2013

Last edited Tue Apr 30, 2013, 03:23 AM - Edit history (1)

She talks about how it angers her that Saudi men insist veiling is a way to protect women from assault, yet women continue to be assaulted under their abayas. Yet she also talks about dynamic, smart women at a conference who wore veils, and Saudi men who denounced laws that control women. I agree with her argument that ultimately laws and practices that oppress women have far more to do with power than religion or any other ideology. Note that she calls FEMEN "racist." That would infuriate many on this site.

ismnotwasm

(41,977 posts)
3. It's been a common reaction
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 01:55 AM
Apr 2013

From Islamic women activists. I've read many articles, from either side side; and while I'm sympathetic to FEMEN, I'm can't deny the underlying racism--although FEMEN sees it as anti-religious oppression. I also can't deny the belittling response of FEMEN to Islamic women who ARE feminists and activists in their own right.

There was a recent article FEMEN throwing water on a Catholic bishop, (which is of course assault), so while their characterization of Muslim men and women is ignorant, their anti-religion message stays consistent.

Topless activists of the protest movement FEMEN took aim at the Catholic Church on Tuesday, drenching Belgian archbishop André-Jozef Léonard during a debate in Brussels, Belgium

Four FEMEN members entered an auditorium at the ULB university in the Belgian capital, holding signs that said "Stop Homophobia" and "Anus Dei Is Coming." Flemish newspaper De Standaard reports that Léonard was participating in a debate on blasphemy and freedom of speech when the bare-chested protesters poured water over his head.

"This was aimed against Mr. Léonard's homophobia, but we also don't agree with other positions, like the one on abortion," one of the activists told news agency BELGA.

In an interview with Le Soir at the end of March, Léonard had said that gays should spend their lives celibate. The archbishop defined homosexuality as "a given that people find in themselves and whose origins remain somewhat mysterious."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/topless-femen-protest-andre-jozef-leonard_n_3146609.html


Outside of this group I will not discuss the activities of FEMEN on DU. Again, it's an area where it's not worth my time to get involved in 'debates' which consist of one strawman after another.

What concerns me is the profound ignorance of Islam, coupled with no apparent desire to see another's point of view, and the deep disrespect that arises from that ignorance.

I'm not religious; I understand that many people are and don't condone racist, sexist, or homophobic thought or activity. These are people worth listening to, even if I don't understand the feeling or security of faith.

BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
5. I've wasted far too much time
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 03:29 AM
Apr 2013

Discussing FEMEN on this site. Most seem to use Amina for their own purposes. One even admitted to keeping the issue alive as a way of getting back at other DUers. Some use her as a club to beat US feminists, others to argue that Islam is inherently bad, and still others to denounce religion in general. If you point them to other sources, they become furious that you're trying to "educate" them. Only in 21st century America is education a dirty word.

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
4. Indeed.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 02:14 AM
Apr 2013

Regarding the hijab:

We need to ask why, if the hijab is supposedly a shield against harassment or sexual objectification - a claim I find highly problematic - are so many covered women in the Middle East groped, harassed, fondled and ogled in public. Why do I feel safer walking the streets of Sydney than I do the streets of Amman or Cairo?

JI7

(89,249 posts)
6. women in Brazil think so also
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 06:33 AM
Apr 2013

The former Femen Brazil also suggested that the group leader sympathizes with Nazism. "Sara told me she admires Hitler as a person, that he was a good husband and loved animals, but does not admire Hitler's public figure, she said.Besides that, Themis went into detail on the selection process for the girls interested in joining Femen Brazil and told us that the Ukrainian head office criticized the Brazilian one “because we put chubby girls in the protests”.

more

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=433401410030315&id=117869604995016

BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
7. That is really the limit.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 06:49 AM
Apr 2013

The Ukraine told Brazil they should not use chubby girls because they want their members to be beautiful. Somehow I see a link between this and the reverence for Hitler: Femen as the Master race of feminists. Then she recounts a case of a member pushing others out of the way to position herself in from of the cameras. And of course the concerns of Brazilian feminists are inconsequential. They are supposed to protest Pussy Riot's arrest rather than issues of concern to Brazilian women.

I also thought it was interesting that the Brazilian pointed out that feminism was new to the Ukraine but not Brazil. She was frustrated by the leader's refusal to work with existing feminist groups.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
8. thanks for the article. will read later. to me, it has always been in your face, obvious. to see
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:33 AM
Apr 2013

people still pretend on du, is astonishing. ok, no not really astonishing. a given

Sekhmets Daughter

(7,515 posts)
9. A jury voted 6-0 to Leave it Alone
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:50 AM
Apr 2013

At Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:38 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

thanks for the article. will read later. to me, it has always been in your face, obvious. to see
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=21380

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

It's been a calm couple weeks so seabeyond is ONCE AGAIN WHINING about DU. Safe group or not, no whining about DU is universal, not just in forums. Or, we can let her start up the conspiracies against the rest of us all over again. Please hide as distruptive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:44 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I don't see this as whining. I believe seabeyond is commenting on something that she see's on DU. While I don't see it from the same angle as seabeyond, I don't think this should be hidden.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Whining? I don't see it that way.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Oh cut me a break. seabeyond is not whining about DU and you know it...,she is referencing the amount of ignorance frequently on display here. There is a difference.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
13. I have a great deal of sympathy for women such as the author, and in general
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 12:58 PM
Apr 2013

find the application of "shock jock" tactics to feminist advocacy to be more a celebration of vulgarity (which is neither good nor bad) rather than a meaningful resistance to patriarchy or other societal ills.

Vladimir Putin's condescending thumps-up to FEMEN protestors was the perfect summation of what they accomplish.

At the same time, those who claim that Islam, or Roman Catholicism, or Mormonism, or whatever are vehicles for combating the patriarchy--that seems more like trying to avoid cognitive dissonance than a viable theory of change. Male supremacism is the foundation stone for these faiths. It's baked into the cake. Nuns who hold non-Medieval views on abortion and same-sex marriage get put in their place by the grand patriarch himself in Rome, etc etc etc.

I don't envy the position these women are in--the faith they cherish is also the instrument of their oppression.

And I can see why they want to reclaim their faith as a progressive one.

But, Roman Catholicism, Islam etc have over 1500 years under their belts, and they're no less male supremacist today than they were in the time of Charlemagne.

Where women have attained greater freedom and self-realization, it has been where there's been secularism, either explicit or implicit (e.g. women feeling free to pick and choose which faith tenets to observe and which to ignore).

ismnotwasm

(41,977 posts)
14. Those are good points
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 01:55 PM
Apr 2013

I don't understand religion from an emotional level, or faith I guess--I don't seem to be made that way. I understand it from an intellectual level. There a number of books written by Muslim women about this. One in particular called "Standing Alone" was the story of an American Muslim women going on her Hadj, and what she encountered (for instance, as an Unmarried women, she needed her fathers permission) she concluded the book with a "Muslim Womens Bill of Rights" although the book impacted me, her attempts to change the American Islamic culture were mixed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asra_Nomani

In Judaism, there's this (I've been following "Women of the Wall" for some time&quot

Five women have been arrested by Israeli police at the Wailing Wall for wearing prayer shawls that Orthodox tradition states should only be worn by men.

The women were all members of the Women of the Wall group that opposes police-enforced segregation of worshippers according to sex at the Jerusalem holy site.

The arrests occurred during a monthly prayer session organised by the group.

"Police detained for questioning five women who prayed with religious garments at the Wall," police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said.

The group's monthly gatherings at the Western Wall often end with arrests of women who don prayer shawls or read publicly from the holy scriptures, a rite also reserved under Orthodox ritual for men.

Jewish modernisers have long called on senior rabbis to relax laws in Israel preventing men and women worshipping together at the Wall.


http://news.sky.com/story/1076751/israel-police-arrest-five-women-at-wailing-wall

And we are familiar with Christian Fundelmentalist views on women.

Yet religion and faith seem to be a profound part of the human condition, so I admire women who battle the very pillars of it. Perhaps winning WOULD change the constant of patriarchy, it's hard to say. That's a whole lot of change.
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
15. Patriarchy losing the major religions would be like the Republicans losing Texas.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 01:58 PM
Apr 2013

Game over at that point.

Mosby

(16,306 posts)
20. the women of the wall won a major court victory last week
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 05:27 PM
Apr 2013

Appeals court ruled that their service did not disturb the "public order". This decision will limit the ultra orthodox control of the kotel.

ismnotwasm

(41,977 posts)
21. I did see that
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 05:30 PM
Apr 2013

I wanted to post more about it here, but I was watching it play out. I don't know very much about Orthodox Judaism, but for some reason I was shocked at the prohibition of women at the prayer wall.

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