Pickup Artistry, Victorian Style

[ismnotwasm]

I ran across this remarkable painting, titled “The Irritating Gentleman,” on Sheltered and Safe From Sorrow, a blog devoted to Victorian mourning rituals and other creepiness from that period. The gentleman in question seems to be a Victorian era Pickup Artist in action. He’s even peacocking, Mystery style, with that bow tie and stupid hat and even a non-ironic handlebar moustache. Probably the only thing keeping him from wearing aviator goggles is the fact that airplanes haven’t yet been invented.

What makes it all the worse is that the PUA’s target is clearly in mourning. As the blogger behind rawr I’m a tumblr notes:

She’s wearing all black in 1874. Black gloves, hat, cloak, and dress. In public. The whole nine yards. That’s not a fashion choice or a gothic thing. Back then when people wore all black like that, they were in mourning for someone who died. No one did mourning like the Victorians, that shit was an art form to them.

Someone in her family has died—she could even be a young widow. No one’s accompanying her either. With the carpet bag? She’s traveling alone while still in deep mourning. Look at the closeup. She’s got tears in her eyes. She is upset, devastated in a way that one is only when someone has died. And the guy’s still bothering her, like her problems are flippant bullshit and she needs to just smile or pay attention to him because ladies are supposed to be pleasing for men no matter what shit they’re going through. That’s not a look of “what an ass.” That’s a look of devastation that even in her pain, she’s expected to give people like him focus. She’s not mad. She’s hurt. And to add insult to injury? Everyone would be able to tell. It was a clear sign and still is in ways that someone is mourning, to dress in black crepe like that. He would know why she’s wearing all black, and he’s still demanding her attention.

What an insufferable dick.

http://manboobz.com/2013/01/12/pickup-artistry-victorian-style/

[sigmasix]

1. BBC's sherlock holmes series

I'm watching the 1984 BBC serial adaptation of the tales of Sherlock Holmes on Netflix. I have read all of the tales as well. Victorian misogyny seemed to be a particularly savage form of female shaming and objectification; Holmes was a fictional character, but we can draw inferences from Doyle's asides about the reasons behind Holmes' particular hatred for women, that help us to understand the function and form of victorian misogyny. When we discuss "pick up artists" from the victorian age, it seems we are really talking about "gentlemen" rapists. A modern pick-up artist can, concievably, be a harmless charmer- I don't see a lot of evidence for the same sort of thing during the victorian age, which isn't to say that there were no harmless pick-up artists during that period- just that the chances of meeting a gender-fairness minded single man were probably pretty small.
It's kind of amazing when you realize that the enlightenment period (coinciding with victorian times) is the formative time and pressure behind the beginings of the modern feminist movement.
You're right- the jerk on the train has an air of entitlement to his aspect as he accosts the woman.

[ismnotwasm]

4. The 'PUA's'

The blog is referring to are an groups of semi-organized creeps. They have online groups and are pretty weird.

But you're your exactly right about Victorian attitude toward women, although I tendto see Sherlock Holmes as asexual--I'm a fan of Sherlock Holmes stories and books--I love the new series, on BBC, with a younger, modern Sherlock Holmes and Watson. in that one, it's iinteresting they turned Irene Adler into a dominatrix; the (written) pornagraphy of the time tended toward S&M, with young, 'virginal' women or girls being completely submissive, and completely objectified.

[seabeyond]

5. Holmes' particular hatred for women, that help us to understand the function and form of victorian

what gets me in your posts is our acceptance of hatred toward women, yet we do not see it on the other hand with women to men, as a accepted norm even though women are oppressed, subjugated, dominated, abused, degraded by men on a regular basis.

[redqueen]

6. "A modern pick-up artist can, concievably, be a harmless charmer..."

Disagree.

Even just the name gives them away as scum. "Pick up" artist.

Can you imagine anyone portraying gold digging women as harmless charmers? No, they're vilified.

Google 'last minute resistance' or 'anti-slut defense' (goddess I hate that word).

[seabeyond]

7. manipulate, lie, coerce, force.... ya. charming. nt

[redqueen]

8. Somehow the fact that the whole idea portrays women as things is just glossed over.

Reading the way these losers talk about women is truly sickening.

It's pathetic how often people will try to play them off as just shy guys who want to learn how to talk to women.

[Jim Lane]

9. I agree as to many of the people purveying the advice.

I suspect, however, that much of their audience is indeed "just shy guys who want to learn how to talk to women."

Those guys are the opposite of the irritating gentleman in the OP. His problem is that he approaches the woman when there are clear indications that he should not. The shy guys' problem (I speak from experience here) is that they refrain from approaching unless there are clear indications that they should, and sometimes not even then.

Some of them may even benefit to some extent from the PUA advice, if it helps motivate them to make the effort to be more sociable and to lose their pathological fear of rejection. The trick is that they'd then have to disregard about 95% of the other stuff they read on those sites. Along with the valuable advice to be willing to talk with women, the PUA's do go on to advise a style that's based heavily on objectification, manipulation, outright lying, etc. My guess is that most of the shy guys who happen upon these sites are comparatively young, inexperienced, and filled with anxiety about relationships -- all factors that make it hard for them to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[redqueen]

10. I don't see how anyone who has even a modicum of respect for women

could read any of that dreck and think it was worth wasting any time at all on.

[Jim Lane]

15. There's a difference between 95% dreck and 100% dreck.

You can have respect for women and still recognize some of what the PUA's say as good advice. That's why I said that you have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

For example, with regard to shyness, my younger self would have benefited from some of the PUA talk about "approach anxiety" -- the problem I referred to above.

As an aside, here's an illustration from a non-PUA site of what I mean, a man with the opposite problem from the one in the OP:



(Image is from the webcomic xkcd, with this one found at http://xkcd.com/642/. The mouseover text: "And I even got out my adorable new netbook!&quot

The PUA's would advise this guy to at least try to start a conversation with the woman, in the course of which conversation he should project self-confidence, manipulate her, and use outright lies if necessary, all with the goal of getting her into bed as soon as possible.

There's no man who would benefit from this advice. There are some men, however, who would benefit from part of it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

16. For all those poor shy men out there:

The woman on the train DOES NOT want to talk to you. If she did, she would let you know. Here's the big clue - she is minding her own business, face down, absorbed in her netbook, all of which means leave her the hell alone. If she were interested in intereacting with others, she'd be looking around, maybe making eye contact and smiling a bit, perhaps she'd even be the one to strike up the conversation. She is doing absolutely none of those things, and yet somehow this guy thinks he can invade her space and demand her attention. And then feel oh so bad for himself when it doesn't work.

I really don't know how much more obvious this could be - she's not interested in talking to an unknown man on the train. Instead of trying to figure out how to seduce her, why don't you spend some time learning to read body language and other social cues?

[redqueen]

17. What you said.

That xkcd dude regularly shows what a clueless person he is, and that is one widely discussed example.

[KitSileya]

20. Pshaw, they don't need to learn to read body language and other social cues, they already know that

They do it to other men all the time. What they need to learn is to respect women as people and be willing to afford women's body language and social cues the same value and weight as men's.

[seabeyond]

21. true this. thank you for pointing this out. nt

[Sheldon Cooper]

22. I couldn't have said that any better.

[redqueen]

23. Oh so very well said.

Thank you for that insight. You're exactly right.

[seabeyond]

11. they are talking about getting the girl drunk to fuck her. it is not about her being a person, but

Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:51 PM - Edit history (1)

a fuck.

i respect and understand the issue with a shy man. there are shy women too. they do not get the men coming to them, because they are.... shy. they do not have a whole cult teaching them how to manipulate, lie, use, demean in order to get a fuck.

that would be the difference between the shy guy and pui.

[redqueen]

14. Yep, this is what I've seen too.

Despite all the protestations about 'just wanting to learn to approach women' ... it's really about fucking lots of hot 'chicks'.

[ismnotwasm]

12. I tell shy guys to get a cute puppy if they can

And take it for walks in populated areas, or a dog park.You get a lot of social practice that way, from either gender, it's non-asshole, and its good for the soul.

[seabeyond]

13. i was shy. at 18 and on my own, i started working myself out of the shy. many different exercises.

i am anything but shy now.

[sigmasix]

18. differing perspectives

Figuring that "pick up artist" includes desriptions like "gold digger" or "confidence man" would certainly mean that there would be no way that the individual in question is not harmless. I was of course referring to the notion that someone in this present time could conceivably be a well-intentioned, fair-minded individual with a propensity for meeting many women and maintaining each seperate relationship in an honest, non-misogynystic way. I was not aware of additional descriptions for "pick-up artist" that include these sort of negative connotations.
Victorian misogyny includes some extremely vicious catch-22s for women. Victorian morality included the notion that a lady doesn't work a job or own herself or her property, yet these same morals are responsible for the destitution of single or widowed women and thier children, should the male head of household become ill, dead or crazy. For all of the crowing about how "modern" victorian times were, the truth is that Women and children were still considered objects to be owned and used as the male head of house saw fit. Many victorian men attempted to use early scientific method in explaining away thier misogyny. The same use of scientific method as that of victorian era racists. Hopefully these methods have lost thier appeal as humans become better educated and self-aware.

[redqueen]

19. PUA stuff is misogynist.

There's just no getting around it.

[BainsBane]

2. Mourning? She's a child, clearly underage.

[Sheldon Cooper]

3. She does appear to be in mourning - even the young wore black

in those times. I think she must have been very young too, because her hair is down. A woman who was 'out' in society would have worn her hair up. I do think she's being harrassed by that guy, though, and I wonder where her chaperone is? A well-born girl of that age would never be travelling without one.