do you think an OP calling out feminists in such a misogynist manner will enlighten some

[seabeyond]

on the hostility women deal with on a regular manner. that maybe we might put forth an effort to not allow, embrace, feed that hostility and take actions to actually curtail the sexism and make this a welcoming site for women?

or is this merely another place where a "whore is placed on top of the cake" for no apparent reason but to put women, all women, in their place?

look son....







i really have to ask, after such an attack on me personally (clarity, yes our group and as a part of the group, each one of us individually. we know who we are), language addressed to me that no man has even come close to using on me. i have to ask. what position do i hold that is in any way extreme. i welcome anyone bringing one position i hold that is extreme. i am not talking about a person agreeing with me or not. i am talking about an extreme position. at what point in any of our discussions have we been so unreasonable that a man that talks about women in this manner gets any kind of support what so ever.

[BainsBane]

1. link?

[seabeyond]

3. there is more to it than what i can show. but, i gotta keep my mouth shut from here on out.

i ranted most of my anger.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125519412#post85

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125520213

[BainsBane]

5. at least it was hidden and the person TS

so good for EarlG.

[seabeyond]

12. NOT good enough. it took all the way to an OP calling us the c word and shrill. how close to that

line do so many duers get with NO repercussion? often. they often get right up to the c word and we are often called out as shrill. this mentality that allows the attack of our group on a regular basis is the issue. it is a NORM to attack us in this manner. and we are to be appeased because it got to the point of a man starting a fuckin OP and calling us the c word, that got him FINALLY tos'ed while we are continually attacked in this manner, repeatedly.

that is what the culture and environment has become for our group.

[BainsBane]

13. I agree with that, for sure

[seabeyond]

15. this is what we are addressing. this is the "whore on the cake" for no other reason, but

to put women in their place. this is the issue creating an hostile environment for women and creating it as a norm, so we do not see.

[DURHAM D]

18. JFTR - It was EarlG, not skinner.

[BainsBane]

19. Okay

Will edit. Thanks

[boston bean]

2. And then to have a jury pull the plug on the light shone on it.

What are some so afraid of? Are feminists not allowed to discuss this stuff, point it out, is it just something people would rather not confront and prefer be swept under the rug?

No thanks. That poster posted sexist bullshit all over DU for 11 months. Finally, today, he proves he is what many knew him to be. A misogynistic creep.

[seabeyond]

4. it makes all women weak to call it out, dontcha know. we are suppose to quietly fold our hands in

lap, cross at the ankles, lower our eyes and stay silent..... in order not to be a victim.

[BainsBane]

6. What did the comments say?

Could it be since it was so offensive and repeating it was also offensive?

[boston bean]

7. sure, I can post them.

At Wed Apr 10, 2013, 07:40 AM, an alert was sent on the following post:

Flameout happening.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/125520213

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Come on, this post was hidden for a reason. It calls out members, uses sexist language and it is hurtful. stop using groups as a default META.
These posts show up on the latest page for people that aren't subscribed to this group or ever venture in.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Wed Apr 10, 2013, 07:49 AM, and voted 6-0 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: While I agree with the sentiment, I am voting to hide because I don't want to see Comrade's disgusting post quoted after it was hidden. He needs to be banned, but let's not immortaize his vile words.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: It's a no-brainer, delete that crap
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: OP got hidden. This deserves the same fate.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Shouldn't repost the contents of jury hidden posts.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Yes, the post was made. But this is a similar cynical attempt to add to the level of divisiveness.

CONSEQUENCES OF THIS DECISION

You will no longer be able to participate in this discussion thread, and you will not be able to start a new discussion thread in this forum until 8:49 AM. This hidden post has been added to your <a href="/?com=profile&uid=173223&sub=trans">Transparency page</a>.

By chance, were you on the jury?

[BainsBane]

8. no, I wasn't on the jury

but I think it's best to let the thing fade into oblivion. He was tombstoned, so the problem is dealt with.

[boston bean]

9. That would be your opinion. Not mine.

[BainsBane]

10. of course

anything I write is only my opinion.

[redqueen]

11. I agree with you. Sweeping this shit under the rug is not helping.

We hear it all the fucking time.

Deal with it quietly.

Don't make a fuss.

etc. etc. ad nauseam

FUCK THAT

Treating each incident as separate and isolated is a HUGE mistake.

This is part of a fucking pattern. We need to highlight it.

[MadrasT]

16. +1 because it was no surprise at all coming from that poster

yet it takes something THIS BLATANT for action to be taken

Leave out the c word and we hear this shit fucking DAILY

[BainsBane]

17. there is also a huge double standard

when it comes to Meta like posts here vs. some other places.

[redqueen]

20. +100000000000000000 - there are all kinds of double standards for this group

I'll quote from bb's thread here to explain why:

Anita Sarkeesian, in her GDC talk “Equality, Or GTFO”, quoted a perfect metaphor for this, quoting Beverly Daniel Tatum's moving walkway (those horizontal travelators you see at airports) idea from Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In The Cafeteria?. The gaming industry and those who write about it, she says, are stood on this moving walkway, always trundling toward the sexism and misogyny that infests throughout. There are of course those who march forward toward it, embracing it. But most, she says, are standing still. They don’t particularly desire or support it, but they also don’t want to think about it, discuss it, contest it. So they stand still, and in doing so, inexorably glide toward it.

The only way to make a difference, Sarkeesian argued, is to turn around and actively walk against the flow of the travelator. Something which is, it occurs to me, not easy. Not only are you walking against the flow of movement, but you’re also going to bump into everyone heading in the other direction. And some people are going to be hostile about this, especially if they think you might start a trend, start seeing others change direction, maybe even enough to see the direction of that walkway changed. The voluminous responses of wanting to talk about something else is a combined effort to stand still on that walkway, and that's not something we're willing to do.

[boston bean]

21. We are battered and abused by creeps like that with a huge crowd cheering them on

along the way.

And to not allow the victims to discuss that under any guise is a shit poor excuse. To me, people need to know what they freaking allowed. And maybe they can start to take our concerns a bit more to heart in the future.

No, we aint just some hysterical b*tches imagining slights. There is real misogyny and sexism on DU.

[redqueen]

22. Remember when one of us (can't remember who) posted about the widespread misogyny on DU?

And got pilloried for it?

Yeah. Good times, good times.

Like DU is somehow different from the rest of the world in that respect. I got news for anyone who thinks so: It's not. The patriarchy is everywhere. People need to open their damn eyes already and stop pretending that changing a few laws is going to cause women to suddenly be treated like human beings.

[boston bean]

23. to me, the yeah, so what, he was banned, problem gone

aint gonna fly.

We had to deal with that shit, until he slammed them upside the head with his creepy misogyny and had to tell them what he was, before they realized. No one gave anythough to it prior, and in fact supported the creep.

Does anyone have any idea how much of this crap goes on, on a daily basis. The target we have on our back. To me, the number one tell is, people attacking us personally because we are feminists.

WhyTF is that shit allowed?

[redqueen]

24. And it isn't the first time, and it won't be the last.

It's like the woman said:

The only way to make a difference, Sarkeesian argued, is to turn around and actively walk against the flow of the travelator. Something which is, it occurs to me, not easy. Not only are you walking against the flow of movement, but you’re also going to bump into everyone heading in the other direction. And some people are going to be hostile about this, especially if they think you might start a trend, start seeing others change direction, maybe even enough to see the direction of that walkway changed. The voluminous responses of wanting to talk about something else is a combined effort to stand still on that walkway, and that's not something we're willing to do.

The majority is still solidly on the side of the people who hate us for walking in the other direction.

And I'll admit, I fucking shove sometimes, if I think it's needed. And I won't apologize.

Women have been asking nicely for centuries. IMO we need more agitators. Fuck their flies and honey. Fuck their 'be nice' minimizing bullshit.

[boston bean]

25. and then trying to make the example I posted ,into

actually meaning the same thing as what the sicko posted?

WTF, I aint gonna take to kindly of that from anyone.

[seabeyond]

26. i still want ONE person to come in here and tell me ONE extreme. unblock everyone. i will take

them all on.

ONE person bring me ONE extreme.

double dog dare.

[boston bean]

27. Sea, I'm not going to take anyone off the block list.

they have all rightfully earned the block.

We need to use this space to be supportive of one another.

I will say this, anyone who wants to come off the block list, please notify me by DUmail, and I will consider it.

Most of the time, I get emails, where they harangue me for blocking them and in the end of the email, telling me they didn't want to post here anyways and they take it as a badge of honor to be blocked. So.... take from that what you will.

[seabeyond]

29. i know thru example you will take a duer off block if they sincerely ask. no one has a gripe.

they want to be on that list.

and still.... they cannot give an extreme cause there is none.

[boston bean]

30. I agree.

An example of extremism, if we are going to judge by the juries, is posting examples of misogyny and sexism you find on DU.

Challenging the admins to make things a more welcoming place for feminists and women, would be another, I suppose.

Educating on feminism, is another, I suppose.

Discussing something from a feminists pov is extreme, I suppose.

To some, of this we are all guilty!!!!!!!!! take me to the guillotine now, I plead guilty! The heresy I, you and others have commited, has made DU suck for ALL!

[seabeyond]

31. see... that is the real stupid me, again. a duh. yes. this would be a persons example. i would

never even consider thinking in that convoluted direction.

issues, lol. i guess it would have to be issue.

but, i guess that is a persons issue that a woman dare to speak out against sexism.

[ismnotwasm]

36. They have no desire for education

The sex positive feminist culture, which tries to create empowerment out of objectification; to "own" their sexuality, their bodies, and their choice by working within to change a patriarchal system are the only feminists they will listen to.

Truth to tell this is not limited to DU, any on-line intragender discussions anywhere. or out in the population. Some of the members here, male and female don't 'believe in' patriarchy, think gendered pejoratives are equal not only for male and female, but sexual orientation; because while sexism is socially acceptable, the heterosexism inherent in it can be a concept many, many people cannot grasp.


This isn't to excuse anything. But quite frankly the degree I'll confront what to me is a profound ignorance on gender is limited. I don't have the patience. And, as in real life, once someone has expressed not ignorance, but actual stupidity, I won't engage them at all.

The deliberately cruel, or overtly misogynistic are quite another story. These people are fucked up issue ridden shit bags.

If there are a group of these types, and there are, who dislike this group, it's members, it's philosophy--To me is a matter of joy and pride. I have NO desire for the good regard of such people, the idea is disgusting. It's not a 'me against them' problem, it's a confidence that my ideology is not based on privilege or hate, is not cruel, (although i can be, I'm human)but has the good of the human condition in mind.

There's no comparison. And yes I think I'm 'better' in fact I know I am. A snob? Perhaps.

Too bad.

[redqueen]

37. I wish I could rec this post.

[seabeyond]

38. confidence that my ideology is not based on privilege or hate, is not cruel

thank you.

[BainsBane]

42. once again, awesome

[BainsBane]

41. I asked for such an example

Last edited Thu Apr 11, 2013, 12:22 AM - Edit history (1)

of an issue on which I was so radical. He recounted a post in which I said that I wasn't going to take the word of guys in the male dominated Pycon industry where they treat rape as a sport at their conventions. I pointed out that 1) there have been several reported rapes at those conferences and 2) a comment is not an issue. That was the best he could come up with.

[seabeyond]

28. i also really want to see the jury on the alert i am sure i got for this OP.

it must have passed since it is still open.

[BainsBane]

40. I did not say it was the same

Nor do I think it. I was trying to imagine what the jury might have been thinking.

[chervilant]

33. I left DU for several months after

I tried to address sexism and misogyny on DU, and got slammed, insulted and derided -- because the target was Michelle Malkin! I was accused of being a freeper, and some DUers invited me to go back from whence I'd come and/or 'troll' some other site. It was ugly.

I didn't care WHO was the female some pervert would "do, if she'd keep her mouth shut"! I just couldn't believe members of a Democratic forum could be so blatantly sexist and misogynistic.

And, then, there was all the vile, vomitous crap thrown at HRC and her supporters. Another steaming pile of shit...

Of late, I've had a female (allegedly) DUer derisively diminish my comparison of women's efforts to raise awareness and end patriarchy to the civil rights movement and the efforts of our LGBT brethren to obtain equal rights! She insisted that such a comparison diminished the civil rights and LGBT activists, and that women today have won equal rights and don't appreciate how privileged we are in comparison. Also, she seems to think patriarchy is something we man-haters made up so we could inflict our extreme views on others.

These, and countless other examples of sexism and misogyny on DU, tell me feminists will have to continue to address the patriarchal mindsets of too many of our DU brothers and sisters.

[redqueen]

34. Yeah, it gets ugly on a pretty regular basis. Really ugly.

As for the people who insist that you never compare women's struggle for liberation to the civil rights movement, ignore them.

I actually had someone tell me that women's suffering in no way compared to the suffering of black people, because slavery and lynching.

I about went nuclear, because, like, there are still slaves, and most of them are FUCKING SEX SLAVES.

And just here, just in the US, just this country, 3 WOMEN PER DAY ARE MURDERED BY THEIR MALE PARTNERS OR EXES.

And let's talk about femicide, shall we? Girls killed JUST FOR BEING FEMALE?

Yeah, so they can fuck right the fuck off with that oppression olympics silencing bullshit.

Women have to stop acting like changing a few laws is going to change the world. While of course it is necessary, that shit is a drop in the fucking bucket. And it is a HUGE fucking bucket.

[sigmasix]

32. jeslink offensive

Have you seen the new programming that comedy central offers after Colbert? It's called the jesalink offensive or something like that. I have watched it 3 times and each episode features lots of misogynistic attitudes and "jokes". Why is it that some people still dont understand how this stuff prevents debate and further ossifies the sexist ideologies that are responsible for deeply unAmerican inequities within our cultural and political power bases?
Hatred for the "other" is a powerful social and political tool- and right wing idealogues have been using this tool with the same expertise as the Klu Klux Klan.

[redqueen]

35. Because it's just about invisible, that's why.

We grow up experiencing it as 'normal' and 'reality' and since hardly anyone questions it, let alone calls it out, it just grows. And grows. And festers. And stinks more and more until now, when it seems like hopefully people are finally tired of choking on it and speaking up in more places and in greater numbers. (yay

This guy did a great job of showing how invisible it is.

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4050

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4051

[seabeyond]

39. ha, funny that. we watch stewart and colbert. hubby generally goes to sleep in colbert.

but he likes the noise on the tv so i will change it to msnbc after colbert. last night i was not in the room and did not change the channel. waiting for son to get home from work. when i went in, that show was on. they were having a women in golf segment. first talks about a womans boobs. the next was two women found dead one shot, the other shot. the third was a beheaded? woman in the trees and a joke off that???

then went to his guest and talk to the woman about, she pulls out rape whistle and i do not even know what the man guest was about. turned off channel.

ya. that is our entertainment.

first time seeing, imagine.

[sigmasix]

43. emailed comedy central about it

I know they wont listen though. They excuse the inexusable by claiming that it's "just humor" or "just a joke". How can anyone find misogynistic hatred funny? It's like racist humour; you can't shake the devil's hand and then claim you were only joking.

[niyad]

44. isn't this the same network that carries that despicable tosh person? absolutely disgusting.

[Z_I_Peevey]

45. So glad I stopped watching Tosh after a couple of shows in his first season--

he was praising some kid for sociopathic behavior in one of his Web Redemption segments. I knew then and there he was an a-hole of the first degree. Then, later, with his rape "humor," I wasn't surprised.

Jeselnik I saw once on a roast, and got the same frat boy misogyny vibe off him. Ugh. Pity the women in their lives.

[seabeyond]

46. my husband always pegged him as an asshole. i would soemtimes think funny.... again

when i would come into the show, not purposely watch. yet, not enjoyable cause he went to far. i have him on laugh usa radio and he is funny. just comedy. not too far out there.

but ya, ... that was it for him

but, i like that hubby rejected him even before i did.

[redqueen]

47. I have those moments with my man...

things he recognized as bullshit before I did. I treasure them, he thinks they're no big deal.

[seabeyond]

48. it is always an appreciated moment. for sure. nt