this is the stupidest thing i have seen on du yet.

[seabeyond]

a boob thread to critique/criticize/joke about womens boobs.

a poster asks what benevolent sexism is.

i give a definition. no more

and OP after OP after OP manufacturing the most obnoxious group of lies to suggest ANY of us has issues with civility and manners.

this is the most absurd fabricated agenda based attack i have seen.

doesnt matter every feminist said they hold doors open. every feminist would say thank you. not a single out raged feminist.

we are now down to the same suspect group being mean to the "nice" men.

and it is all a lie.

i am outta here.

all, have a good couple days.

logic, reason, truth, all out the window.

[unblock]

1. ironic - or telling - that the mere definition of benevolent sexism brings a flood of hostile sexism

well, research shows that they do go hand in hand....

[Tien1985]

2. I hope you come back

It was ridiculous when it started and it has gotten worse. It's been a day and a half and people are still talking about doors. I think the goading is intentional.

[BainsBane]

29. I was thinking about writing a thread

About holding the door open for the Pope, but I thought better of it. The point would have been to highlight the absurdity of recent conflicts, but it would have led to a flame fest. Still, it could have been funny.

[BlueJazz]

3. Ah...Don't leave. I don't know the thread you're talking about...

..(and probably don't want to know) but there's a lot of good people here that feel the same as you.

I try not to post in a thread that's in bad taste. ...ok..ok...other than a few "Fart threads" but that's because they relieve the pressure around here. (excuse the pun).

[Sheldon Cooper]

4. Anyone who is alive knows about the world-wide war on women,

a war that is raging right now, and right here in the US. With our very autonomy at the highest risk level in 40 years, with assaults and rapes continuing to be ignored and pushed aside, with all the other situations that we face, we get to come here and be insulted and mocked by the jock-strap snappers who stopped evolving at around age 12. And this is on a so-called liberal discussion board.

This website is a farce, and actually there is much humor that could be had, if you change your approach to participation here. I just hope that the owners aren't kidding themselves into thinking it's a real democratic site, because it's so transparently not.

Seabeyond, if you need to take a few days off to recharge yourself, by all means do. You fight the good fight daily, and we all need time to regroup. If you're looking for other online sites, there are a lot of good feminist blogs on Tumblr. That's where I spend most of my online time.

[Luminous Animal]

5. I hear ya, sea. Unbelievable cruelty.

hugs and take care.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. shoot me a link, someone - please - public or PM. thanks.

sea

[redqueen]

7. It's pretty discouraging to see so many working so hard to trivialize and distract from an issue.

The worst part was seeing one person blame YOU for the shitstorm. Like it's your fault that other people either have reading comprehension issues or love intentionally stirring shit.

And still we see new threads popping up, talking about opening doors.

The stupid, it burns.

[DURHAM D]

8. And now a new OP -

"Benevolent homophobia". Or was it? Here's what happened...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022519296

My take away is - Wasn't he lucky he had female co-workers? It appears they listened to him, they talked it out, and not a single person said to him that he was just imaging things, that he was over-reacting, that he needed to just get over it, that he was too sensitive, etc. etc. etc.

[Gravitycollapse]

10. Suffering is not a competition, in case you didn't already know.

"Wasn't he lucky." No, no he wasn't. And it's not your place to say otherwise.

[DURHAM D]

12. You have completely missed the point.

[Gravitycollapse]

14. Which point would that be? That he should feel lucky?

That he was lucky?

[BainsBane]

9. It's all over the place

It's a cynical and manipulative effort to trivialize feminism.

[MadrasT]

11. I was ignoring those most of the day.

Just read back through them and boy is there a whole lot of batshit crazy hoopla over nothing in those threads.

Geez Louise... people are completely dense, willfully blind, or feigning ignorance for the lulz.

And I think some folks just like to spout off any old shit in hopes to ruffle other folks' feathers.

[Whisp]

18. There are the chain yankers that are just doing it 'for fun'.

Just like little kids.

But there are a couple that creep me out big time - you can just smell the anger and rage from the other end. Really creepy.

There's no sense trying to talk reasonably after a certain point, so I'm just going to have some fun with the poor little hard done by fellers. I want to feel like a little kid again too.

The absolutely worst was when someone said in response to a feminist: Oh, so opening doors is like condoning rape now, is it?

And every Door Opener on the planet seemed to have to make a new thread to announce their enlightenment and what a swell person they are.

oiy, it's madness.

[ismnotwasm]

13. Taking on creepers raises the blood pressure.

I don't pay much attention a lot of the responses to those threads, aside from a post or two. (From my phone at work, lol) I put them in the category of 'let's fuck with the feminists'
They're the on-line equivalent of putting a paper bag full of dog shit on someone front door, lighting it on fire, ringing the doorbell and running away.

It's messed Up Sea, but its interesting from a psychological standpoint, who misinterprets, who does it deliberately, who has poor reading comprehension, who justifies, who whines (I consider a lot of it whining) and who's trying to pull someone chain. Who honestly believes that sexism and misogyny isn't a problem. Those who are needy, and follow the prevailing opinion, practicing snark skills. The anti-'PC' crowd, who, apparently think they're being told what to say rather than recognizing they're on a discussion board.



They all kinds of mess and morass.

[ChazII]

15. Sea, take a few days

to recharge. You are an asset to this site and if you leave it will be DU's loss.

[JTFrog]

16. It's fucking disgusting.

Place is becoming boys club underground.

[sufrommich]

17. I haven't bothered reading all the threads,

but it's very " Limbaugh-Feminazi" around here lately.Anti feminist posts seems to be an attempt to belittle and dismiss feminists as crazy radicals. Why this is kosher on a liberal board is mystifying.

[CrispyQ]

19. I like the ones that say they hold doors for children, old people, the infirm & women,

& still don't understand why we take issue with that.

I've noticed that many of the women like to say that it is a trivial issue. While I agree that there are bigger issues, why does that mean we can't discuss little issues? Little issues are often the ones that you encounter throughout the day & are so insidiously woven into our society, that many do not even acknowledge it as sexism.

I could not read all of the threads - not enough time. They do seem to find a topic & then post & post & post on it. Why is it necessary to create an entire new thread on the topic with, "My mother told me to open doors for women so that's why I do," when it could easily have been a post in a current thread. They hammer & hammer & hammer on something until you just want to scream at them to goddamned fucking grow up.

Chill for a few. It's St. Pat's day!





on edit: Some of them get it. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022522593

[MadrasT]

20. Whooo-eeeee

I see the passing of another day only served to escalate this scintillating multi-thread faux debate in GD.

Do they actually think their tired strawman derailing tactics are not transparent as glass?

DU must be like 50% trolls and moles at this point. Nobody can be as dense -- or as upset over exactly nothing -- as these folks are making out to be. Actual liberal/progressive people do not argue about this shit, it is taken as a given.

Much sound and fury... signifying nothing.


Edit to add.... then again, maybe not. Just tried to have a conversation about benevolent sexism with a real live progressive man and he got defensive as heck and adamantly claimed there is "nothing wrong with it" because "some women like it". Did not seem even a wee bit open to the suggestion that treating women as precious objects to be catered to might have negative consequences for all women.

Well fuck me.



This bullshit is depressing as hell and I have animals to tend to. Later.

[ismnotwasm]

21. It's why I actually enjoy working with mostly women

I think men sometimes want to be protective; not understanding--or accepting-- things like rape culture like they simply don't want responsibility for it, Although the consequences of rape culture will rightly produce male outrage. While They abhor rape and rapists, they refuse to see the culturally ingrained attitudes that lead up to it. They refuse to acknowledge sexual privilege, usually on the basis of how difficult,-- or not--it is to have sex with a woman. (gay males seem to have a different dynamic) they don't see this as sexist. So many of them can't admire without objectifying, it's a pleasure to meet a man who know how, who sees a human being first as opposed to an object of sexual desire. (Initial attraction aside, sexual beings assess, female and male)These are the kind of men worth cultivating in my life, they are charming and interesting, and tend to try to give back to and be a part of, the human community as opposed to a strictly gendered one

I think benevolent sexism is a byproduct of not so benevolent sexism and heteronormative standards.

A personal example, I'm very strong for a women. I don't allow men to carry things for me if I can do it myself, there is no reason for it. If I need help I'll ask for it. I'll offer help as well, men assume I'm physically much weaker than I am, Or that I don't enjoy strength. I have to kindly and firmly say just that 'I'm very strong for a woman, trust me'. The result is usually 'wow you ARE strong. I just smile.
In this case, I understand. This isn't every woman's story, many women lack the upper body strength men have to move something, or whatever. So I get it when they assume I'm the same way. They often try to insist, I don't let them. The power of their masculinity doesn't get to be based on my relative physical weakness as a female.

[seabeyond]

22. this is so good. i have tried to explain the difference, and how it certainly feels different

i am not successful

So many of them can't admire without objectifying, it's a pleasure to meet a man who know how, who sees a human being first as opposed to an object of sexual desire. (Initial attraction aside, sexual beings assess, female and male)These are the kind of men worth cultivating in my life, they are charming and interesting, and tend to try to give back to and be a part of, the human community as opposed to a strictly gendered one

about all the last couple days was reinforce and help me to understand better, the real issue with benevolent sexism. lol. i probably dismissed it more than not.

not now, lol. i get it so much better.

[ismnotwasm]

24. Heh

Stay out of GD, they're still at it. At least you and Redqueen have got discussions going--I bet a lot never heard the term before a few days ago. Seed planted as it were.

[seabeyond]

23. thanks all... you are a group of awesome women, and any men if there are some. i do not know.

and too tired to check.

but, thanks all. all the posts were of value

[chervilant]

27. Dammit, sea, don't go!!

I have to admit that I left for a while because of the disgusting sexism (which I had tried unsuccessfully to address, only to get MORE derision and sarcasm). Most of the worst offenders are now on my ignore list.

I think we need lots of feminists online, if only to help enlighten those among us who don't understand, but genuinely WANT to.

Besides, I love your posts (and, it's all about me, doncha know?).

[JTFrog]

28. I hope taking a break makes it better.

I certainly understand how exhausting this place has become lately. I have always said I don't know how you do it.

You are woman and I hear you roar.

And thank you for that.

[Z_I_Peevey]

25. I suppose this is as good a place as any

...I've been looking for an appropriate thread/place to tell you regular HoF posters how much I admire your handling of the avalanche of ill will, misrepresentation, condescension and insult resulting from the benevolent sexism definition.

Extremely good job at conveying information, ignoring obvious baiting tactics and fighting mischaracterization. Kudos.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. Think on it a bit.

Don't let the bastards win.