OK, seriously. I've seen this Liquid Plumber ad THREE TIMES and it is INCREASINGLY pissing me off.

[PassingFair]

I'm writing a letter to the makers of Liquid Plumber.

Really.

Talk about the "normification of porn"!

NOT FUNNY.

[Scuba]

1. OMG, sex sells! Who knew?

[seabeyond]

3. it isnt about "sex sells". nt

[PassingFair]

4. This is totally over the top.

For a product that is marketed to women, it is STUPID
to suppose that we want to be DOUBLY PENETRATED
whilst removing hair from drains.

Disgusting.

[seabeyond]

7. i sent them a letter reminding who they are marketing to.

and that the good old boys making the ad miscalculated.

[seabeyond]

2. pornification. yup. last night, eye glass commercial, the "naughty librarian"

glasses.

again i was reading and took a minute for it to sink in what was continually repeated. naughty librarian. glanced up at the end. and sure enough, a women being the naughty librarian.

to sell fuckin glasses

[seabeyond]

5. i tell you though,

as much as they *wink, wink* think they are selling this to women, they are not. i predict will be too far into porn, and turn women off. the ones BUYING their damn product.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. When I saw that ad I couldn't decide at first whether

it was intentionally pornish or if I just have a dirty mind. I guess it's not just me - I'm no prude but I was a little startled at such an obvious double-entendre in a household cleaning product ad. I would agree, it's a bit over the line.

[seabeyond]

11. have we? i dont see that we have. keep your "we" and oppose the normalization of porn

at the same time.

what does your post have to do with the OP?

[seabeyond]

15. no. i am pretty sure you wont "get all outraged"

the commercial was made for you.

you do know about lawrence video with sandra fluke on it, right? and the latest limbaugh comments?

you also know you have the option of starting a thread on the subject in du. you dont have to wait for others to do it. lets hear what you have to say. i will keep my eyes open for your OP.

[iverglas]

16. this is the History of Feminism (protected) group

If you have a Rush Limbaugh-related topic you would like to post in this group, I can assure you it would be most welcome!

However, now I'm supposed to get all outraged over a commercial.

Really? You seem to be the one who chose to read and then post in this thread. Nobody told you what to do. Feel free to feel however you'd like about whatever you like, I'd say.

It might just be wise not to tell anybody else what to do either.

[MadrasT]

19. I think the outrage is not about today's "silly commercial".

I think the outrage is more about this:

that is in a very long line of commercials for 50 years using sex to sell something.

It's not so much about the incident of THIS commercial, per se.

It's about a society that keeps on keeping on with the shit.

Over

and over

and over.

At least, that's why it aggravates me.

It's not the commercial. It's the system that keeps producing messaging like this.

[redqueen]

20. There are lots of discussions at this site that I'm sure you consider equally unimportant.

Go find one of those and lecture someone else. This is a protected group and we discuss the issues we want. If you don't like it, kindly leave.

[monmouth]

9. But then again, did you see those plumbers????? (kidding, kidding)..n/t

[seabeyond]

12. lol

uh hu. at least they got ONE thing (ok, two) right.

[Meiko]

10. Good commercial

Get's the message across : A team effort can really get the job done"

[seabeyond]

14. ah, but then you would be the man, thinking up a commercial that would do it for you

unfortunately, it is not men buying this product as the company well knows.

[redqueen]

21. Please note that youre in a protected group.

It is quite obviously not the Analysis of Advertising from the Male Perspective group.

[stevenleser]

22. Dont forget that the protected group includes Third Wave feminists who are sex positive.

I dont think third wavers would object to this commercial.

[seabeyond]

23. steven.... i read blog after blog after blog of young women talk about this issue

who are not pro porn nor the hypersexualization of our girls/women. one of the things YOU need to understand is that lipstick feminist (your pro porn) does not have a lock on third wave feminism anymore than anyone else.

whether a person objects to this commercial or not, the poster was disruptive. and the jury felt oh, almost word for word with your post, that his post should stand, for the sex positive women.

sex positive. that would be pro life? anti life? dems of course being anti life, right? you well know that using sex positive is no different than a repug using pro life.

[stevenleser]

29. My first thoughts about your reply is, boy did second wavers do a disservice to feminism with

their positions on sex. I find it completely bizarre, as bizarre as I find Republican objections to sex while they extol violence.

I dont know the poster's posting history very well. It could be they were being disruptive. It could also be they are a man or woman frustrated with second wavers' misplaced focus on sex and they are using irony to express that.

There is absolutely nothing remotely anti-feminist or anti-women about this commercial. A woman is perfectly allowed to have desires for a man and quite frankly, yes, she should be allowed to have the desire for more than one.

[redqueen]

33. A commercial which commodifies sexuality in order to make money

is in no way analogous to a woman's right to sexual desire.

Jesus, talk about laughable posts.

[stevenleser]

35. If the worst about what you just said is true, it still has no relation to feminism.

Talk about laughable.

[seabeyond]

37. not one woman has to defend her sexuality in this forum.... ever again. we are done. especially to

a man calling out our sexuality to degrade and insult us to his position.

do you not get that?

[redqueen]

44. You already laughed at another of my posts here, hence my retort.

Your doing it again here is poor form at best. Shouldn't you come up with some new way to denigrate what I'm saying here? You know, just so that your methods of displaying your dismissiveness don't get stale. There are more than a few people on DU with a sizeable stock of dismissive and insulting yet meaningless rejoinders to feminist discourse.

[Scout]

36. so, you are an expert on "second wavers ... positions on sex"

what are they?

how did they do a disservice to feminism?

why don't you start a thread and educate everyone?

[redqueen]

26. Serious feminists have dropped that meaningless term.

Except as a way to ridicule those who would misrepresent the views of others.

Porn-positive, pro-sexual objectification, pro-prostitution... those all work as honest descriptions and not rhetorical propaganda (implying any feminist who disagrees is somehow against sex).

[seabeyond]

27. but our male "feminists" LOVE

the term sex positive to put all other women in their place by attacking them thru their......

sexuality.

which is just another example how the "sex positive" feminist are playing into the patriarchal game, lol

[MadrasT]

28. Spot on, redqueen. n/t

[stevenleser]

30. Translation, only feminists who agree with you are the truly serious ones. Gotcha.

You'll forgive me, I am sure, for laughing at the obvious self-serving nature of your post.

[redqueen]

31. No. Read more carefully.

Agreeing about the dishonesty of that propaganda is not the same thing as agreeing with me about porn, prostitution, or sexual objectification.

Do you understand now? I did not say that serious feminists agree with me about those issues.

[stevenleser]

38. LOL, thank you for reminding me that you equate this commercial with porn and prostitution.

I forgot to address that part.

So, in that context, the woman is the john and the men are the prostitutes, after all, she is the one purchasing the product.

So, should we be mad at her? How far do you intend to take this ridiculous analogy?

Seriously.

So, let's sum up.

1. We should be mad that a company made a commercial that suggests that women do in fact have sex drives. That is a bad thing to do according to the second wave brigade here. Any suggestion by any commercial or media that women have a desire for men is bad according to some folks. I'm trying to decide in which century this kind of thinking actually belongs. I'm torn between the 16th and 17th centuries.

2. Any commercial or such that acknowledges that women have sex drives is the same thing as porn and prostitution. That is despite the fact that the commercial has no nudity (not even any leg or arm skin), no sex, and no contact at all between any of the humans in it. Not even a kiss, hug or a hand shake. My has porn and prostitution changed!

3. Anyone who disagrees with the second wave brigades obviously flawed interpretation of #1 or #2 cannot possibly be a serious feminist or serious about women's equality.

To which I reply a great big and

[redqueen]

42. If you honestly somehow got all that

About a commercial, based on my criticism of a term you used then you have some serious problems with basic reading comprehension.

[seabeyond]

34. you are bringing in the same shit into this forum

that caused the problem in the other. please. dont. if this forum does not work for you, then have enough respect for a protected group to stay out. there are mre than enough forums for you to peddle this crap.

[stevenleser]

40. You are attacking the philosophy of 1/2 of the protected group. So, no. nt

[seabeyond]

41. so, in this protected group, you continue posts insulting the women. you ignore us asking you to

stop.

this is how you behave in the other protected groups? why do you think you can come in here and insult the women in this forum?

[stevenleser]

45. I insult no one. I criticize viewpoints and it is a legitimate argument within feminism among women

and those interested in furthering women's equality. This does not have to do with the safe haven. You are using that as an attempt to shield yourself from a legitimate discussion and argument.

[redqueen]

47. "you'll forgive me I am sure for laughing" is juet honest crticism, is it?

You've got an awful lot of nerve.

Especially.given that you seem to not even understand what was being addressed with respect to that propaganda you were spreading.

[seabeyond]

48. when you use sex positive you are saying others are sex negative

when you equate porn with position on sex you are challenging a womans sexuality. you ignore what is being said to you and continue to insult the women in this forum. and dont do that conscending fuckin bullshit "an attempt to shield yourself ". you are not my daddy, and i dont want your pat on the fuckin head.

[CrispyQ]

76. "when you use sex positive you are saying others are sex negative"

It's just like repubs who use "pro-life" to make their opposition sound like they are anti-life.

[redqueen]

46. Ooh! Ooh! I have a guess!

(I used that smiley especially for you, creepy stalkers!)

[Scout]

54. 1/2 the protected group? really? you know this how?

wouldn't that mean that YOU also are attacking 1/2 of the protected group? but i guess it's ok if you do it, right?

[TheMadMonk]

32. You know the message I get from this and other "WOW" product ads?

People are too fucking stupid to do a job properly without a "tailored to the task" product.

Special TV wipes. Special bathroom wipes. Special kitchen wipes. Special fucking arsewipes.

Bah! and even Pah!

[iverglas]

39. and to connect that to this group ... ;)

Most of these products are aimed at women -- either to rectify their feminine failings (hair, skin, odour ...) or to do their women's work (cleaning in particular).

No woman can claim to be doing a good job of keeping her house and its occupants clean if she doesn't acquire each and every one of these unique, discrete products for each and every one of those unique, discrete aspects of the job. Soap and water just doesn't cut it anymore.

All of these products and the tasks that must be done with them combine with other pressures exerted on women, to keep women busy in the home, and keep them from looking outside it for meaningful things to do. And to make those who choose or need to go outside their homes feel guilty that they are not performing their real job up to snuff.

[TheMadMonk]

49. One class of products. I could have picked car care (aimed at blokes)...

...products. Or male personal hygiene products. I merely continued with the original cleaning products theme.

Advertising is aimed at stupid people. Given that people are at their stupidest when thinking with their gonads, this sort of advertising makes sense.

[iverglas]

51. actually the OP picked the class of products

and it's in the History of Feminism group ...

[redqueen]

50. And most importantly, to keep the $$$$ flowing into Wall St. nt

[BlueIris]

62. Sad, pathetic disruptor.

Get a life.

[saras]

24. I'm amazed at how many opinions I can have at once.

Worst case - if you've ever encountered drain cleaner used as torture, this is SO FAR BEYOND REVOLTING THERE ARE NO WORDS.

Then there's the third wave view, from which it's either dumb and funny, or ironically dumb and funny.

Then there's the extremist who thinks it would have been funnier pre-HIV with eighties gay guys.

Then there's the second wave view that I grew up with, where it just sucks dog shit.

Then there's the snarky second wave view that thinks it could be "fixed" with a few strategic edits...

Then there's the "I'm just SO FUCKING TIRED OF COMMERCIALISM AND SELLING SHIT" - that's a big one.

Then there's the perspective of "It's mass media. As expected, this is so bad that it's actually RUINING SEX."

[seabeyond]

25. i LOVE your post

very perceptive and right on. i especially love the last one. so true, so true

[iverglas]

43. I do too

I just wanted to add:

Worst case - if you've ever encountered drain cleaner used as torture, this is SO FAR BEYOND REVOLTING THERE ARE NO WORDS.

I've encountered it being drunk by a young woman who was raped by multiple members of the military in her country. Of course, that young woman died, so I encountered it second-hand, from the sister of a young woman who had also been raped by a dozen soldiers but who could not speak it aloud, because if she "admitted" it to anyone, probably even herself, she would have had to do the same.

And we've all heard of the drain cleaner method of abortion ...

Women and drain cleaner isn't an image that would come to my mind when I think "sex".

But I guess that's what the commercial set out to fix ...

[PassingFair]

52. Not just sex. Group sex. With people you don't know!

Just what us chicks like!

I'm gonna rush out and buy Liquid Plumber!

[seabeyond]

53. "Just what us chicks like!" you know it is cause porn says so

oh no, porn isnt effecting society, not at all.

this plays out like a damn porn movie.

frumpy woman in the grocery story ends up with two hot plumbers to do her

even sounds like a damn porn movie.

[PassingFair]

55. If I want porn, I'll go look for porn. I don't like it showing up in commercial breaks on network TV

Totally inappropriate.

My husband and I just GAPED at each other the first time I saw it.

Then he said "I don't think there was a woman creative on that....".

I was just, WTF?

[Warren DeMontague]

60. You missed one.

"liquid plum'r" is bad for your pipes, highly toxic, and bad for the environment. Even if they ditch the ad campaign, I wouldn't use it.

[iverglas]

63. that is very true, and true of much crap marketed to women

particularly in their roles as cleaners and cooks.

Disposable and/or toxic crap, for the most part.

Which kind of harkens back to what I was saying about the role of women in the home having been transformed from producer to consumer. In large part, consumer of antisocial junk.

Battery-operated plastic hand soap dispensers ...

[Warren DeMontague]

64. I must have missed you saying that

still, just felt it important to mention that there are plenty of ways to unclog a drain that don't require caustic goop.

[iverglas]

65. when I get around to rerenting the apartment that was my office

until I consolidated back into the house a while back (luckily before I broke my leg; the moving I was doing at the time was the final push, but there's a bunch of work left to be done on it that's on hold), it will come with instructions for what to do if the toilet is fixing to overflow. Don't we all wish that was a life skill we had been taught around when we learned to walk? Never again to be stuck in the bathroom at a party, suffering the consequences of someone else's ..., staring in horror at the water rising ever higher ...

Take the lid off the toilet tank, grasp the metal arm that has the round rubber balloon on it, and lift. Voilà. Simple. You may be stuck with your hand in a toilet tank until you find something within reach that will hold that thing up, or the waters recede, but it's better than standing in a puddle not of your own creation.

Step two is you reach for the plunger around back of the toilet. Which no toilet should ever come without, and every smart rental property owner should provide along with the instructions.

Anyhow, the big modern bulby plungers are definitely what you want for those drains. If the boiling water and the baking soda and vinegar don't work.

[Warren DeMontague]

66. Yes, or turn off the water to the toilet at the source, ie the little silver knob

Down behind it near the corner. Then your hands stay dry.

At least, it's usually silver. That's another way to get the water to stop flowing long enough to unclog said toilet.

(Make sure to turn it back on when you're done)

Now, of course, you're in Canada, home of (at least that's how it was about 10 yrs ago, when the US did the switch to low flow) the holy grail anointed old school what is it 3 gallon tank toilets, whereas we now can only get 1.5, leading to the odd phenomenon of the toilet smuggler.

The low flow toilets DO clog, like all the friggin time, but one advantage I've noticed (the only one, any environmental improvement incurred by the lower tank volume being, I'm sure, negated by the multiple times you have to flush the damn thing) is that unless the flapper in the tank isnt closing properly, it is well nigh impossible for the things to overflow on one flush.

When the flapper isn't sealing all the way AND the toilet is clogged, thats when you have a potential disaster.

[iverglas]

67. I have one of each

Older reno, more recent reno, in stages. I don't think you've been able to get old-style big-flushers for a long time here.

Never notice a problem with the new one, myself.

[hlthe2b]

56. I watch so little tv that I'd never seen this ad before...

Surely doesn't make me feel like I've been missing anything.

And, yes, this is so stereotypical of what a bunch of clueless Madison Avenue MEN would think would sell the product to WOMEN that it just has me shaking my head. Clueless doesn't begin to cover it, but....add classless and I guess that's a start...

[laconicsax]

57. IIRC, there have been a couple advertising studies...

What they showed was that "sex sells" is bullshit because ads like the one in the OP have the following results:

-They make women less likely to view the brand/product favorably.
-They make men and women less likely to remember the brand/product. (The sex is all that's remembered.)

[MadrasT]

58. I have a couple of thoughts.

I find it distasteful. I like sex just fine, I am not completely anti-porn (though a lot of porn, and a lot of things about the porn industry really disturb me... I am not sure where or how to draw the line).

I *am* fed up with the in-your-face sexualization of seemingly *everything*.

People have sex. Americans need to get over it already.

This may be a case where they knew damn well they were creating a very controversial ad that would get people talking about it. Their ad team wins on that count. But I am not sure it is going to translate into people running out and buying their product because of it.

Not me. I'll remember the ad and avoid buying it, just because I think the ad is crude, distasteful, and unfunny.

Note: I formerly bought their product. I won't anymore.

Drain cleaner has nothing to do with sex. I think the lack of any logical connection offends me more than anything.

[seabeyond]

59. i bought the product, and often, lol. plumbing old.

and i wont uy it again.

they say controversy is a good thing. getcha talking about it. i dont buy it. i worked for coca cola when new coke came out. LOTS of people were talking about it. they had articles on it. look what happened to new coke.

too many advertisement that get the people pissed, especially women, i find immediately take down the ads, all while they clain they are respended to well by the public. i am not buying it anymore.... either the product or the tired old any controversy is a good thing.

[CrispyQ]

77. This:

Drain cleaner has nothing to do with sex. I think the lack of any logical connection offends me more than anything.

Draino just got a new customer.

[redqueen]

78. Not coincidentally, that is the criteria used to determine which ads aren't allowed

in countries which have at least started to attempt to curb the excessive sexual objectification in advertising.

[CrispyQ]

80. I am not a savvy shopper, but there is this broom/mop type of thing

that you use on your floors & some time ago they started an ad campaign that represented pieces of dirt & grime on a floor as women. Yes, they took female actors & dressed them up as floor grime. In the commercial the woman floor grime couldn't resist the floor sweeper & was swept up into the sweeper & goodbye dirt!

They got such flack about it that they then introduced some commercials with men as dirt & grime. However, over time, they have gone back to almost exclusively representing dirt & grime with women.

Their target is women & women still buy these products in spite of this despicable representation of women.

?

[redqueen]

81. Women support so many things that are hateful towards women.

It's kind of hard not to once you start noticing these things. Music, movies, books, etc.

Women do quite a lot of pushing this stuff on their own, directly. They don't even need to buy anything. All that's needed is to buy into an idea of what kind of stuff is appropriate.

Consider this blog entry from a few years ago:
http://www.shakesville.com/2008/09/youre-soaking-in-it.html

[MineralMan]

61. Incredibly stupid ad, and completely mis-targeted.

I'm guessing it was created by a couple of men at the agency and sold to a couple of men from the company.

Just a really, really poor marketing choice on their part. Someone's heads should roll on this one.

[Texasgal]

68. This is my issue with just about everything that

is sold advertised now days. The problem is that the more society sexualizes Women, the less we get treated equally as human beings.

This has nothing to do with not enjoying sex. I love sex. I plan on having sex as much as possible.

I am angry that something as special as sex is used to sell fucking DRAIN CLEANER!

[seabeyond]

70. more society sexualizes Women, the less we get treated equally

that would be the point. i also think it allows pervasive feel of ownership, domination and control that allows the republicans the freedom to pass the laws they are on women thru that disrespect.

[redqueen]

71. Why is that point so hard for so many to grasp?

Objectification = dehumanization

It really IS that simple.

[seabeyond]

72. studies, test, reality..... all state it unequivocally, yet, we pretend otherwise.

i was raised in a house i was valued, respected. i know what it feels like. it has always been easy for me to know when i was/am not respect, dehumanized. i think it is people who were not raised in an environment that allows them that easy feel.

[redqueen]

73. Oh yes, I know that first hand...

but once you make the logical connection, does it matter what your personal feelings are on the matter?

Do the studies and documented consequences of dehumanization somehow fall apart and become meaningless simply because some individual 'feels like to them at least' that it's fun and hip and sexy and harmless?

[seabeyond]

74. people HAVE to validate their choices within themselves. even if it means telling self a story.

for a person to treat another poorly, or to be used, then they have to make it so they are not doing that. if they are consciously doing this to another, what does that make them? to many people would have to walk away from it. and too many people simply dont want to. the payoff. so the are not honest with self. and that is the whole point of all of my posts. it is not about any one thing. it is the honesty in it. regardless of the choice, at the least, be honest with self.

[MadrasT]

75. Just this morning

I was talking to a man who was reporting how he was out "on the town" with two male friends last night.

The ratio of women to men was about 3 to 1.

He said most of the women were dressed very "sexy", yet he and his friends were confused because it didn't seem like most of the women were interested in making any kind of connection with men. They were just out on the town having fun.

I said y'all just ran into the whole point of slutwalks. How women dress is not a communication of sexual availability or desire to "hook up". And that women, in general, are not walking around continually thinking about how to "get with" men.

I am not equating how these 3 guys thought to be how "all men think", but it was interesting.

They truly believe women dress "sexy" because they want to hook up, or maybe more like, that women shouldn't dress sexy if they don't want to hook up because it sends the wrong message.

They made it the women's fault for miscommunicating their intentions by dressing wrong.

I suggested maybe they needed to alter their assumptions about women's clothing choices.

Then I said, "Yeah, you know, that's exactly how men justify rape, too. She was dressed that way so she was asking for it." Of course, he was quick to condemn that blame the victim bullshit, but he had a hard time seeing the correlation.

They heard what I was saying, I heard what they were saying, but it just underscores the problem and how complicated it is. No one can deny that many people choose clothing, etc., to make a personal statement. But they all equate "woman in sexy clothes" with "she wants sex" to the point where it causes confusion when it doesn't work out that way.

These 3 men are all progressive liberals.

It was an interesting conversation.

[redqueen]

79. They see women making an attempt to look nice and think it's some kind of an invitation.

It is not.

It really is that simple.

And this applies not only to women dressed up in sexy outfits. This applies to any woman wearing anything.

None of it is any signal to any man that she wants anything to do with him, or any feedback from him on the way she looks in whatever clothes she chooses to wear, or on however she chooses to alter or not alter her body hair.

The idea that women in public are somehow inviting anything, whether commentary or actions, is abhorrent IMO. Men are not treated this way. There's no analogy for men at all, that I know of... and IMO that pretty much says it all.


On that subject:

[CrispyQ]

83. Damn. I'm not certain I have half the courage she has right now,

much less when I was her age!

Fucking assholes beat her up because she didn't shave her armpits? When I hear stories like this I just shake my head at what a mean, intolerant society we have created. It makes me want to respond to the perpetrators in kind.

This young woman rocks. She is so strong & in tune to who she is & what she believes. Thanks for posting this.

[redqueen]

84. I'm not either.

I wear boots to cover my hairy legs, and don't wear sleeveless shirts.

I admire her attitude.

[seabeyond]

82. studies say women dress for women. i say, women dress to look the best they can

for themselves. no difference than men. i watch every man i know want to walk out the door looking their best, too. (unless they dont, no more or less than women). but this is the bottom line to all this conditioning. men just know it is womans job to sexually entertain and present themselves to men. men just know that it is all about the woman handing her sexuality to his all empowering sexuality cause it is all that. it is always all about the man and hos sexuality.

it is not the reality.

these men say, because the women dress sexy. i had more men hit on me dressy classy and put together. it did not take having boobs pushed up and out of top. it is an inherent belief that anything a woman does, it is for a man.

and then the never ending discussion of the obsession of porn and how the men are being trained about a womans sexuality. to suggest that how porn presents women does not effect mens perception is bullshit.

[redqueen]

69. Slate's "XX Factor" blogger loves it.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/04/27/liquid_plumr_double_impact_sex_fantasy.html