Modesty

[redqueen]

[hlthe2b]

1. Yes, absolutely....but then again--

My shapeless, sexless clothing I'm wearing today sure are comfortable (and I don't have to worry about them splitting, exposing my squeezed in backside on the "red carpet&quot -- a very good thing for all concerned, I might add. LOL

Of course being older than 22, I'm already invisible to men, so no matter.

[redqueen]

3. Well just so long as you know that if your curves are ever visible,

and some jerk takes a sneaky pervy pic and posts it online, IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!111!1

[seabeyond]

4. lol... then there is that issue. true that. but really,

on edit. that is not necessarily about what a woman wears in public or not, modesty or not. that is all about invasion, lack of consent and ridicule and humiliation. i do not think they care an iota how the woman represents herself. that is the whole point of the invasion.

[CrispyQ]

18. ...

Yes, & if you're 22 & the perv pic is sexy, they will call you hot, ask you to reveal more, & tell you that they want to fuck you, & all their friends do too. But if you're older & not so sexy, they'll call you a stupid cow & ask you why you don't cover that shit up.

I'm sure some man will come on & say that he doesn't know a man alive who would behave that way. I'm stunned how many men think that all their friends & coworkers always behave above the board, because they've personally never seen them behave badly.

[seabeyond]

19. +1. nt

[seabeyond]

2. let me ask,

are men wearing tight pants to show off package? opened shirts to show off abs or bare chest? short shorts to let us see their legs?

i really seeing nothing wrong with the dress of the girls and women in this picture.

as hl says.... my not too tight clothes FEEL awfully good.

sexuality and looks is not tight and bare all.

i really do not get the point of the post.

i think it almost is feeding the objectification push in our society.

is baring all, and tight clothes what makes us sexual and female? i am not thinking so, and i personally have never felt that to be true.

[redqueen]

5. See, I doubt all the women who have ever been posted on creepshots were baring all...

I could be wrong, maybe they only target women and girls whose pants are tight, or whose tops show x amount of cleavage... but regardless this addresses more than just whether or not anyone thinks anyone else's clothing is too revealing.

The popular 'she asked for it' response needs to end.

Oh and yes, a lot of young men do wear tight pants, tight tops that show off the muscles in their back and their abs, etc.

[seabeyond]

6. no where in the OP is it discussing creepshots. as you see in a post above,

i agree absolutely with you on this that it is not about modesty or lack of. when they try to get an under the skirt picture, that has nothing to do with dress. agreed.

[redqueen]

7. creepshots isn't upskirt... just close ups of boobs, butts, crotches.

And the logic behind the burqa is also mocked. This graphic touches on a way of thinking that is demonstrated in many ways.

[seabeyond]

8. this would be a national tv station's example of creepshot to me.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bcf_1344586580

NBC's 'porny' Olympian body-appreciation video

The video: NBC's coverage of the London Olympics has been questionable to say the least. Now, adding fuel to the fire is a controversial video tribute showcasing the rock-hard bodies of some of the Games' finest athletes. The catch? They all just happen to be female. The eyebrow-raising reel is replete with slow-motion shots of women bouncing, bending over, stripping out of their warm-ups, and hugging female teammates over a porny soft-rock soundtrack. (Watch a version of the video below.) The network has already pulled the video, but the question remains: Was NBC's celebration of the female form sexist, flat-out dumb, or something else entirely?

http://theweek.com/article/index/231857/nbcs-porny-olympian-body-appreciation-video


i guess the feed for it was pulled so i cannot directly link, lol

[redqueen]

10. Oh yeah, I remember that...

I can't remember if I watched it but I read about it.

It drives me bananas that so many restrictions are placed on women in the guise of 'protecting' them. If we were to follow them to their logical conclusion we'd all be nuns! I mean the revenge porn sites, what are women supposed to do, only have sex under blankets? Never walk around naked in the presence of her boyfriend or husband, just in case things go south?

Oh no wait I know, we're supposed to all become better than FBI profilers, and do thorough background checks and exhaustive research on any potential mate.

And that reminds me... I love hearing that 'well I don't know anyone like that, so you should consider dating better men' crap... as if we can only address problems that we personally experience. Get real!

LOL I'm in a ranty mood I think.

[seabeyond]

11. I'm in a ranty mood I think. ah ha. i think so too. BUT...

reading that article, i believe you put up on this subject and what i discuss with my guys. there was the article in a UK mag about taking a picture of the one night stand while she slept for the walk of shame.

men say.... feminist men say.... that women should have total freedom in their sexuality, as so many men create a hostile environment that tell women otherwise.

now

the men are not living this hostile environment. they are clueless. and even if it is brought to their awareness, it is for a second. cause it does not effect them.

how many times do you walk into a dressing room, bathroom, hotel room and look around for any oddity that might clue you in to video.

it pops in my mind.

[redqueen]

12. I think of it...

but I don't go looking. I would start feeling paranoid.

I do think 'what if that clock...' but I shut it down quickly for my own peace of mind.

[seabeyond]

13. I shut it down quickly for my own peace of mind.

yup

[ismnotwasm]

9. *snort*

Heh

[Tumbulu]

14. As a woman I have found it much easier to function

and be treated as a working intelligent woman when I dressed in ways that did not advertise my sexuality. Now I came of age when wearing attractive/sexy clothes meant one was looking for a husband vs looking to support oneself and not be dependent financially on a man. Back in the old days of the 70's. I hope that I can write about that perspective in our group.

I still dismiss people (men and women) who dress provocatively as silly. Certainly not professional or to be taken seriously. I think most people my age do this still. Perhaps the younger folks do not?

I feel that we are in a situation on our planet where it is literally "all hands on deck" to save our fragile ecosystem. All this talk about girls and boys being entitled to be treated seriously when dressed provocatively begs the question- why aren't we trying to figure out how to treat each other as equals and work together to right the ship?

I have enjoyed my professional life, I never appreciate being goggled and you know what? I rarely got goggled. I still wear the clothes appropriate for what I am trying to do. On my farm I wear my farm clothes, in town and at meeting or in the city I wear clothes that look professional- or at least are clean. I want respect not unwanted attraction.

And guess what, most of the time, that is mainly what I have gotten. The few nuts who have harassed me are just that- mentally off.

I worked as a scientist in agriculture- very few women worked in these fields. Clothing is an important means of communicating, it is non verbal communication. Dressing to work is different than dressing for dates or parties. It is totally different. I get it, who does not get this?

I do not want to waste any time defending young people who complain that they are being treated too sexually when they are dressed in ways that advertise their sexuality.

Life is too short. It is silly. Clothes do carry potent messages and it is not only a female thing. It is a human mating thing. It is one way that we humans communicate our interest in the subject. I have never been interested in mixing work with flirting. I am sorry that styles and fashion somehow has given younger people the idea that it can all be OK. Well I don't think it can. At least in my generation it could not be.

It is true times are changing and perhaps that is what this is about. The next cultural shift. But really, these provocative clothes do not appear to be so functional- can anyone really do anything in them? Clothes should protect us from the elements, they should allow us to express something of our inner nature, they are a way to experience many connections to the people, plants and animals that they came from. They allow us to take on the persona of other creatures, change our appearance with the seasons....actually clothing is really exciting in so many ways. Why is it now considered normal to wear provocative clothing all the time- at work, etc?

Is it really that important to people? And if one wears these clothes all the time, how do we distinguish our working productive selves from our time off/home self?

The women in the picture look to be dressed quite normally to me. Not provocative in any way. And they look comfortable. Is there something wrong with being comfortable and not advertising one's interest in the sexual in public- at work, at social gatherings?

[redqueen]

15. Are any of these outfits provocative, in your opinion?

Are there any which, if you encountered a woman wearing it, you'd treat them differently because of it?

What's "provocative" is subjective, and depends on context.

No one is saying this is the most important issue of our time. But with Kate Middleton's topless photos being passed around and her being blamed for it, it's an issue that I think deserves attention.

And I'm happy to work with anyone who doesn't blame women for causing anyone else's bad behavior.

[Tumbulu]

16. I find none of them provocative, all look professional to me

but # 1 and #2 and #3 seem more partyish than professional. But that is my personal thinking, not everyone else's.

I do not think provocative is all that subjective. Showing lots of cleavage, but cracks, tight crotches on men.....it seems the style of the day....but that does not mean it does not send signals that the person is more interested in creating some sort of a reaction in others.

There is this woman who lives near me who is my age who wears her tops low down - one see's her cleavage all the time. She is out and out trying to get men to look at her. I find it pathetic. She does not deserve to be injured, but if the two of us are together talking, who is listened to with more seriousness about anything- me of course. She is actually an intelligent woman, but the way she dresses belittles her. And this choice is hers. What she gets from it, I do not know. I guess some people love/want attention from men. I have always wanted to work with men and women on common goals and projects. I do not like that "look at me" dressing stuff- except at parties or on special occasions where it is can make sense.

I wrote a big thing about how the Kate Middleton thing was exploitation. No question about that. I am talking about our choices in what clothing we buy/make and wear. Not peeping toms and paparazzi invading privacy and calling it their right to do so. They are clearly mentally deranged. No question.

I am talking about clothes that actually reveal breasts and crotches- all those guys walking around with their pants down by their thighs showing their bottoms- do you take those people seriously? I do not.

[seabeyond]

17. this is how i see it. it was the way i was raised. time and place, dress represents who we are.

Last edited Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:49 AM - Edit history (3)

as much as we may not like it, as many fits as we may throw, it is more than just cleavage and butt cracks. it is tattoos, piercings, hairstyles, and all kinds of manners we present ourselves. it is an obvious. it is a given.

i have a brother that like to look likes a knuckledraggin dumbshit. then he gripes to me about people taking a look at him and thinking he is dumb. i tell him, every way he presents himself, even in speech, he knows that is what he is doing. scruffy handlebar mustache, goatee, bald on top so wears a hat always, and long scraggly hair around. he is huge... even old lots of muscles. so tight tshirt, or scissors off sleeves in sweatshirt.

that is how he presents himself always. good guy. smart. and once they get to know him, but.... he knows damn well what he is doing.

my husband is all over my youngest for wearing shorts too low and seeing the boxers. ALL the friggin time anymore. he wont have it. too him, (this is the only thing he has gone off on), it represents something he does not want son to project.

son goes out for a job, i tell him to step up his dress.

dinner at companies, and holiday, step up dress.

hubby owned a business. use to be suits and ties. when he bought, lowered dress to slacks and golf shirts. after a couple year, went to cargo shorts and collared knit shirt. all those were consideration if it would be accepted. he got away with it because he is computer and they have a leniency, casualness, and geekdom, that are valued.

all of us KNOW that the style we choose, we are sending a message loud and clear.... mostly.

[CrispyQ]

22. Step up the dress!

I like that!

I know that show "What Not to Wear" gets a lot of shit, but I think they are spot on. And I like that they don't just go all out sexy for all three looks. They do a casual, a professional & an evening look.

If I were a hiring manager, attire would definitely be a factor when considering candidates.

[CrispyQ]

20. I don't see any of these as provocative, however,

I would not wear the first three into a corporate board room, as is. One & three, I would put a jacket over for the board room. Two is a nice outfit, but looks more like what an Exec Admin or Controller would wear, not the CEO/CFO. And there is another perspective - what level are you in the company? I think it makes a difference. Outfit number two on the CEO/CFO at a social/evening event - perfectly appropriate.

I have a question. Is cleavage in the work place appropriate? I'm old school & say no, never. But a lot of women don't have a problem with it & I see this across the ages, pretty much up till about 50. I'm 55 & I wouldn't do cleavage to casual networking events, much less a real office.

I started my own biz a few years ago & have gone from the corporate environment to the small biz environment. I do a lot of networking events at Chambers & such & overall the men have been above the board & professional. But I have had a three encounters that were so totally inappropriate & the one guy was just crude. This is why I get frustrated at guys on this board who say no guy they know behaves this way. I'll bet the friends of these men thought the same about them, too. Hell, I did, until these incidents occurred.

It isn't about how you're dressed. It's a culture that views women as public domain.

(Hmmm, I think I read that great phrase on HOF by someone named redqueen. )

on edit: I just want to say I love this forum & everyone here! A brief moment of sentimentalism by CQ.

[CrispyQ]

21. This:

I worked as a scientist in agriculture- very few women worked in these fields. Clothing is an important means of communicating, it is non verbal communication. Dressing to work is different than dressing for dates or parties. It is totally different. I get it, who does not get this?

on edit: I will say that more & more in our current sloppy society, those non-verbal communication lines are being blurred. I cringe when I see someone show up at the Oscars in blue jeans or looking generally sloppy. To me, that is a bit disrespectful. I think that is less the case with younger people. ??? It seems that way, anyway. I don't recall ever seeing stars on the Red Carpet looking sloppy back when I was young.