yes, 99% spring is a fraud

[xchrom]

http://www.nationofchange.org/yes-99-spring-fraud-1334584235

With hindsight gained by googling “MoveOn” and “co-opt” after the fact, I can’t claim that nobody tried to warn me. Many websites with left and even liberal politics had said in so many words, “Be wary of this organization called the 99% Spring. It is a Trojan horse for the Democrats.” I just didn’t read that anywhere in a timely fashion. I’ve had a lot of stuff on my plate lately. That’s my excuse. And in my ignorance, I responded to some spam about “nonviolent direct action training” organized by MoveOn and got invited to this 99% Spring thing on April 10 at the Goddard Riverside Community Center in Manhattan. Somebody even called me all the way from San Francisco to make sure I was a sincere seeker on the left and would be attending, along with 120,000 others in training sessions around the country.

Which I did. The meeting was a few blocks from where I live. The spam said it was “inspired by Occupy Wall Street.” I wasn’t sure what that meant, but I was vaguely hoping that whatever the 99% Spring was, it would start a chapter of Occupy Wall Street on the Upper West Side, conveniently near my abode, and agitate for the Democrats and MoveOn to move left.

The first clue that my evening might go otherwise was the sign-up table, where there were a bunch of Obama buttons for sale and one sign-up sheet for the oddly named Community Free Democrats (are they free of community?), which is the local Democratic clubhouse. That killed the “inspired by Occupy Wall Street” vibe right there. No piles of literature from a zillion different groups, as there had been in Zuccotti Park. No animated arguments among Marxists, anarchists, progressives, punks, engaged Buddhists, anti-war libertarians and what have you. Just Obama buttons, which didn’t appear to be selling.

This is what co-optation looks like

Inside the hall, it looked like an alumni reunion for the 1966 Fifth Avenue Vietnam Peace Parade. Almost all the 150 or so people were 55-80 years old. The ones I talked to expressed curiosity about Occupy Wall Street and enthusiasm about “nonviolent direct action” but didn’t have the knees or the ears for full participation in OWS activities in the financial district.

[drm604]

1. I'm not sure what you're saying.

Because Democrats and "old people" are involved, it's been co-opted?

You don't want those of us who are over 50 involved? What's wrong with having some veterans from the Vietnam protests? They've been through it all before, you might actually learn something.

[xchrom]

2. i'm certainly not young.

but this is this guys experience -- and i was wondering my self how affiliated with political parties/party 99% spring would be.

[JDPriestly]

3. My experience was entirely different.

One person mentioned Obama once, and then someone else said that the 99%/Occupy movement is needed to keep him honest. So if the one mention was intended to refocus the movement (and I don't think it was), it did not work.

Yes. A lot of the people are older. But it's about time we find a way to get involved and at least support some of the Occupy activities. We have been hurt worse than any other group by the economic crimes of Wall Street. After all, it's our money those guys are playing with -- our pensions if we are so lucky as to have one -- our 401(K)s if we saved and haven't already lost our life's harvest -- and it's our Social Security money that they have a hankering for right now.

So, older people need to find a way to support and participate in the Occupy activities, but we aren't up to spending weeks living in tents -- and you wouldn't want us spoiling the fun anyway.

Yet, Occupy needs to reach out to older people because we are the 99% too.

[kestrel91316]

4. You'd prefer it be a bunch of teabaggers??

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. Dems want their own tea party. This is their attempt.

[KoKo]

5. It was a confusing article...

in that I don't know if the other events for 99% Spring were the same as this one that he described with a politician leading the discussion.

I'd like to see reports from other actions around the US reported by the "99% Spring" before I judged if they all had "Obama 2012" buttons for sale and only people over 55 showed up for the meetings. I did feel Charles Young was disappointed that there wasn't a bigger mix of people but, I thought it was a bit harsh of him to categorize those who did make the effort to show up. He even states how disappointed most of these people were in what they were hearing...as he was.

Many who are over 55 are not up to sleeping in parks and marching, anymore. But, they want to know what they can do to still be helpful to the OWS Movement because they care deeply about the injustices they see going on and they DO VOTE more than younger people do in the Mid-Term elections and for local issues. Also many have the time to devote to actions that might be more time consuming that younger folks can't do. They just need to know what they can do that will be helpful.

But, I am definitely worried about the "99% Spring Movement" being co-opted and used as a front for Democratic Party Election purposes, though. When "Move-On" got involved I figured there would be some push there for compromise.

[U4ikLefty]

15. Here at Occupy LA, many of our greatest contributors are 55+

Last edited Tue Apr 17, 2012, 01:55 AM - Edit history (1)

We are so much more than "sleeping in parks and marching." There is so much going on just within Occupy movement that people don't see if they're not involved. Hell, even if you ARE involved it is very difficult to keep up with it all.

If you're over 55 you can still attend a General Assembly and REALLY get involved with the Occupy movement.

[Starry Messenger]

6. I went to one and it wasn't anything like that.

It was a lively group made up of members of two local Occupy groups and also members of local peace and justice activists. I don't think anyone mentioned Obama once. I'm not sure what the age of the participants has to do with anything, imo.

This sounds like it was authored by some of the Occupy people who are anti-union and don't like the "grandmas and soccer moms" making their movement "uncool". Just because someone isn't a Marxist punk rocker doesn't mean they aren't the 99%.

[Zorra]

7. Was there any discussion/consensus about supporting the Occupy General Strike

on May 1?

[Starry Messenger]

8. No, it was about organizing in local activites and how to engage people.

Both of the local Occupy groups have been protesting at Silicon Valley corporations and also working on foreclosures.

[U4ikLefty]

12. So 2 Occupy groups and nobody mentioned the May 1st General Strike?

odd

[Starry Messenger]

14. The unions don't seem to have been consulted on the General Strike.

I like the concept, but I'm not seeing much outreach out here in CA or among labor.

[U4ikLefty]

16. So that is a yes? Nobody from the 2 Occupy groups mentioned M1GS once?

Unions cannot endorse the May 1st General Strike because of Taft Hartley http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/occupy-wall-street-plans-general-strike

Certainly Occupy would have mentioned it. It's kind of a big deal right now in Occupy circles.

[Starry Messenger]

18. Well. 99% Spring isn't Occupy.

And Occupy isn't centralized with any leadership. So message unity isn't really a given, right? The presence of some members of ORWC and OMV might mean that the pool of activists in Silicon Valley has a lot of overlap. I was glad to see them there, they had good reports on what they were up to. But I didn't expect to see just the Occupy line at 99% spring. It wasn't an Occupy event.

[U4ikLefty]

19. I'm glad we're clear that the "99% Spring" is NOT Occupy...never will be.

They represent the institutional left. Occupy represents the 99%. We are NOT a leaderless movement, we are a movement of leaders.

Some people need to be followers & astroturf looks more comfortable than the real thing.

[Fire Walk With Me]

27. "99% Spring - An Occupy-Like Movement For People Who Want To Be Told What To Do?"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/04/1080346/-99-Spring-An-Occupy-Like-Movement-For-People-Who-Want-To-Be-Told-What-To-Do-

[grntuscarora]

9. I attended one on Saturday.

There was no mention of Obama, Democrats, Republicans, teabaggers or any other particular political group. Certainly no buttons or party literature were in evidence.
There was lots of discussion about issues relevant to my area (PA) , namely fracking and environmental concerns, along with broader national topics. But I didn't feel at any point that the meeting was being "managed" to benefit any political party.
And yes, there were many older activists in attendance. I found that heartening, being one myself.
Many people had specific actions they were already working on, and the reports/news on those were very informative and exciting.

I was glad I went and, as a result, will be joining in an upcoming anti-fracking event in my area that I'm not sure I would have heard about otherwise.

[Zorra]

10. Was there any discussion/consensus about supporting the Occupy General Strike

on May 1?

[grntuscarora]

11. Not that I heard.

We were often broken into small groups, and there was no mention of it in the group I was in. Perhaps other small groups were discussing it, though. No major announcement was made to the meeting at large. The thrust seemed to be on how to organize and respond to what the participants perceived to be pressing issues at the local level.

[U4ikLefty]

13. So what part was inpried by Occupy?

the title?

[grntuscarora]

17. Well, according to the printout they gave me

goals of the training included "Learning how we got here----who broke our economy, and how others like us have responded in the past." The 1% was mentioned. Repeatedly.

Another stated goal was to "Begin to prepare ourselves personally and as a community for non violent direct action." This Included nuts and bolts like body language, how to escalate or defuse a confrontation, role play, direct action strategies, etc.

I can't say whether this 99% Spring thing is a co-opt or not. I live in the boonies and have not yet spent time at an Occupy. But my impression was that it is in support of Occupy, not instead of Occupy.

Just my impressions, however.

[U4ikLefty]

20. Of course they used the language of Occupy...that how they hook you.

You will get no Occupy from the "99% Spiring". They want to replace Occupy with a Dem-friendly movement.

If they were "in support" of Occupy, they would've mentioned the May 1st General Strike.

[Fire Walk With Me]

24. And that Occupy supports neither candidates nor political parties.

Period.

Yes, it's in Occupy LA's declarations.

[greytdemocrat]

25. And...

You're naive enough to believe that??? Really amazing.

[Fire Walk With Me]

26. Wait until you get a load of this:

"Occupy Los Angeles is a movement for the people by the people. We are not a political party, we are not a business, we are not an organization; we are a movement of people standing in solidarity with one another across the world...

We want to emphasize that Occupy LA is not, and never has been, affiliated with any established political party, candidate or organization as this would directly contravene our spirit of independence. We strive to challenge the rigid, oppressive structures sustaining the inherent inequalities created by our current socioeconomic political reality. We seek to empower communities to share their collective resources and subvert laws and institutions which place profit above people."

http://losangelesga.net/2012/01/statement-of-autonomy/

Thank you for your "concern"

[Zorra]

28. Not naive. Directly experienced with Occupy

since it came into being as a loosely coordinated physical collective of people.

[truedelphi]

42. Whereas MoveOn has always been suspect for so many of us activists:

It is Top Down only - they email you, you cannot email them. I consider trying to "find" a young man I knew who worked for the Sierra Club in Calif.

Apparently JR now works for MoveOn on the East Coast. I get "MoveON" emails from him continually. But it is not possible to reply in emails to anyone from MoveOn who emails you. His personal info has been scrubbed from many usual search engines. I can find people who I last saw in May of 1965 using zabasearch, but if someone I knew six years ago joins MoveOn as a paid "activist" I can't contact them.

Recently, The Onion did a rather hilarious write up on how silly this top down approach happens to be.

In 2004, Bev Harris and Andy Stephenson both tried extremely hard to get MoveOn to advance information about the hackable election machinery. MoveOn,unlike Keith Olbermann and Randy Roades of Air America Radio station, was absolutely aghast at the notion that people would waste their time on the idea that our voting mechanisms are compromised.

Had MoveOn "moved" on this idea, perhaps the election of Nov 2004 would have turned out differently. Just maybe if MoveOn had really been liberal and idealistic, Carville's sway over John Kerry would have been neutralized by the facts that there was ample and quite serious indications of major election theft of votes. But MoveOn either lacked the imagination to do this, or simply was NOT SUPPOSED TO help activists work on this important cause.

[eridani]

61. Not quite sure how retired people are supposed to go on strike

Also, it takes far more massive organization than OWS has currently achieved to pull off a general strike.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

21. I'm still a bit concerned about co-option

As I stated a few weeks back:

They have the money and big names to potentially co-opt the message: http://the99spring.com/who-we-are/

"there is no mention of the MIC, or for that matter the erosion of civil liberties, militarization and conduct of the police, criminal investigation of banks and multinational corporations, the escalating influence of money in politics, or the failed war on drugs. (I'm very pro-union), an I'm not in any way knocking the support of the big unions, but they are also highly political, purchase influence and unlikely to center out bad actors like the police unions who enable the PTB, or criminal enterprises that happen to employ unionized workers. I hope my concerns are proven wrong, but we should watch carefully where this goes."

So, are they trying to build a populist army to further their own causes, which happen to coincide with 'some' of Occupy's very diverse causes using the magnitude of Occupy's numbers. Like I said last time, I hope it works out well, yet I hope if anymore suspicious info comes out, that it becomes know before its too late. Please keep us posted Xchrom, and others, of their experiences. Stay Vigilant!

On edit: this post was largely in response to a post http://www.democraticunderground.com/12521786#post3 regarding an article:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/03/29-0

[Mc Mike]

22. Minus One

I can't find the un rec button anymore, so I did what I could.

Nothing against you, x, I think the info comes from repug trolls who fear that Occupy, Spring 99, and rainbow Coalition Dems all have so much in common that they are naturally allied.

[Fire Walk With Me]

23. Why don't they just tell people to join Occupy? Hmmmmm....

Hmmmmmm....

[this is serious]

52. Exactly. If they are supposedly so concerned with helping Occupy, why aren't they at the GA??

I've participated alot in DC and haven't seen Richard Trumpka there once.

He can come there and participate like everybody else.

[Fire Walk With Me]

30. NO alliances with those who want to turn Occupy into a Dem tea party.

[Mc Mike]

31. I am a progressive Labor Democratic Ally of

OWS Pittsburgh 99%, Spring 99% from MoveOn and One Pittsburgh, and Labor Dems 'Get Out the Vote' efforts for candidates who back the 99%.

An alliance is not a co-optation. People in any of these groups can pick and choose to act or stand aside, in any and every action proposed by an ally. I never received a cent from the Dems for helping them out, I get requests for money from them. If OWS 99 proposes an action against a Democratic politician, like today's rally against District Attorney Zappala, for refusing to press charges against unionized Labor cops who mauled an innocent high school student, I can take off my Democrat and Labor hats, and put on my Occupy 99% hat, and attend. (1 pm in Mellon Park, across from Bakery Square.)

A lot of members of Occupy, Spring, and Rainbow Coalition Dems are members of more than one of these three groups. They can likewise switch hats when choosing to support an action for 99% of Americans, and no co-optation exists.

OWS 99 has aided Labor Democrats in Pgh., and Labor groups have aided OWS 99. Spring 99 is aiding OWS 99 here, and OWS 99 is aiding Spring 99. Labor groups are part of Spring 99's alliance, and Spring 99ers are aiding Labor. OWS and Spring aren't scheduling conflicting events.

Spring 99% brings a lot of good activist groups into an alliance, though they could use the addition of Women's Rights groups and LGBT groups.

[Fire Walk With Me]

32. What are Dems doing to stop the continuing illegal foreclosure machine?

Wells Fargo and Bank of American are STILL robo-signing years after being caught and after taking taxpayer bail-out monies. Millions are losing their homes and millions more will. Banks and Wall Street are buying foreclosed homes cheap in order to rent them out, turning us into a nation of renters, not owners. And themselves into kings and queens.

What are Dems doing to stop this, and punish this? NOTHING.

Any Dem-focused group is adding to the problem, not solving it. You cannot fix the corrupt system by voting for it! "Our" representatives are not doing their job, not one whit.

Any group stealing Occupy's terminology and selling themselves as similar, while fully supporting the system previously and currently destroying the country is NOT Occupy, and is not welcome at all. They -are- the problem, not the solution (which is to create new systems obsoleting the old, new systems serving the people and not the rich). One cannot simultaneously be the problem and solve the problem.


Wells Fargo Insiders Detail Foreclosure Fraud Practices: ‘It’s Exactly Like An Assembly Line’

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/907008/wells_fargo_insiders_detail_foreclosure_fraud_practices:_%E2%80%98it%E2%80%99s_exactly_like_an_assembly_line%E2%80%99/

"That Wells Fargo has fraudulently processed mortgage documents using a process called robo-signing has been evident for nearly two years, since scandal enveloped the mortgage industry in 2010. That it kept doing it even after the scandal broke has been known for months. The practice, at Wells Fargo and other Wall Street banks, has led to waves of improperforeclosures and a $25 billion settlement with the federal government and state attorneys general.

A new report from MSNBC, however, provided an inside account of how Wells Fargo’s robo-signing department works. Unqualified employees with salaries ranging from $30,000 to $50,000 are given titles like “vice president of loan documentation” so they can sign foreclosure documents. Actual supervisors institute quotas on employees, forcing them to sign a certain number of foreclosure files each day — sometimes telling them they can’t eat breakfast or take lunch until they’re done. Documents required for homeowners to avoid foreclosure were ignored, left sitting on an unattended fax machine."

[Mc Mike]

35. Marcy Kaptur, D-Ohio

Advised the constituents of her district to squat in their own homes, and make the banks produce the paper. OWS 'official occupiers' are helping foreclosure victims stay in their homes, which is an alliance in goals and tactics by 'official' 99%ers and Dems.

My area is seeing a huge attack on women's rights, and voting rights, and civil rights, and worker's rights, right now. The repugs are attacking on behalf of the 1%. Any idea that the best move for occupy 99 'officials' would be for them to outreach to 99% of Americans and tell them to boycott the vote is untenable. I say do like the Great Depression people did. Put the less bad party in, then stay on their case with agressive lobbying. A Parlaimentary system would probably have you and I as separate party allies, and would represent 99% of the people, but we're heading into '12 with only 2 parties.

When labor or Spring chants 'We are the 99 %!' at protest events, at repug political offices or repug corporate 1%er offices, the non-politicized 99%er citizens think of that 'official' movement that kicked off last fall. Since a lot of people never knew the officials directly or intimately, they can see that the movement is still here and growing. And it is still here, and growing. It's doing good and outreaching to the people. I don't lobby them to get out and vote, but I know who I am voting for, and as an ally I still share the same views as they do on the issues. (99% of them, anyway.)

[Fire Walk With Me]

37. Good for her, a voice in the wilderness...

...but the less-bad party is absolutely doing nothing to stop this country from heading into destruction. Zero. Worse, it's signing laws creating indefinite detention of Americans, making protesting a Federal offense if it's to "officials" (an Anti-Occupy bill, HR347), the NDRP martial law bill....it goes on and on and on...

It's up to the people. Stop believing in authority and start believing in each other.

[Mc Mike]

40. All right, Fire. I see my problem here.

I wandered stupidly into the Occupy Forum, by typing 'spring 99' into the main site search box, then not paying attention to the blue thread info up top. After my first post, I never went through the latest threads, forum & groups, Occupy Underground sub-threads to get here. I've since been stupidly scratching my head about the anti-Dem party stuff that I've been responding to. I just this minute saw the Forum or Group: Occupy Underground (group) line above the reply title box! I hate to admit it, but it looks like you've been arguing with an idiot. You and the other posters are completely within your rights to post it, in my opinion. We probably understand each other as much as we're ever going to, and Occupy 99% has my respect.

The current repug party agenda looks like fascism on steroids to me. They're attacking women, civil rights, voting rights, LGBT rights, the environment, labor, the elderly, students, the poor, troops and vets, religious minorities, consumers, taxpayers, etc. The 99%. They're doing it for the 1%, largely defined as a bunch of old right-wing fake-christian wasp zillionaire repug men. They're using the state and federal offices they took over to do it.

There are 99% issue groups fighting for each of the above categories of Americans under attack. I've acted for, & contributed to them, and they are currently giving me a long list of Dem candidates to back. A lot of good incumbents and challengers, and I back them how and when I'm able to.

The 'official' Dem, Labor, and Spring bosses have never accused me of believing in their authority too much. But I can write, talk, think, leaflet, chant, and outreach with the best of them, once there's an agreed upon action and issue.

I wish your outfit the best, and am in solidarity with your goals, if not all methods. I'll lobby the shyte out of any Dem I can get into office, on 99% er issues. Lobbying a repug is like banging your head against a brick wall.

[Fire Walk With Me]

41. Thank you for demanding "representatives" do exactly that!

Occupy of course believe in very loudly doing exactly that, demo or repub.

I fully agree: Repubs are from hell and must be stopped. Also: Dems who are part of the problem, must also be treated like they are part of the problem, be it corruption or simply cowardice.

This is the time of the people.

[truedelphi]

44. Is it the fault of the Occupy supporters that the

Democratic Party is simply devoid of those ideals that once made it a true support system for the Middle Incomed working person?

I don't feel that the above is my fault. And now that the only difference between the Dems and the Repbulcians is that o

One) birth control and contraception
Two) and the fact that the politicians with the Big D after their name "say" they will be for the middle inocmed, when every thing they "do" is clearly in support of Big Oil, Big Finance, Monsanto, Nuke Industry and clearly agfainst the averge person - what are we to do?

I fully expect hat the Republicans will be collusionary with all of this and start telling people that if elected we will be made to wear our underpants on our head. Watching Jay Leno the other night, and Fat Cat Jay is totally for Obama! What does that tell me! And as someone who has been destroyed by the policies of the both parties, how can I give a damn about a Party that clearly does not give a damn about me!

[truedelphi]

45. I am sure as the election cycle heats up, the Obama Administration will get with the

Message that neither Obama or Tim Geithner understood these aspects of the governing processes concerning the Big Banks and their mortgage malfeasance. Never mind that Tim was the head of the Federal Reserve Bank of NY state. Or that Obama considers him a very good friend. Such a good friend that Tim's office is down the hall from the Oval Office.

[Fire Walk With Me]

47. A Marine and his family whom Occupy had helped fight foreclosure

and move back into his stolen home, has just been evicted by a judge, after several months of fighting for his rights. This week. I don't care about tomorrow. I care about today. Because we are also defending a family with a 27-year-old daughter who is utterly disabled (palsy; cannot speak, barely walks, renters won't rent to a special-needs family). We want them to win and to stay in THEIR home. Today.

One report from RT News says there are another 1,000,000 foreclosures expected this year in California alone. See my posts this week about the 1% buying up mass lots of foreclosures to offer as rentals.



Edit: This administration has known for years that Wells Fargo and BofA illegally robo-sign foreclosures, and that there is a tremendous amount of pure fraud involved...and they do nothing. NOTHING. Scream at them please. What is happening is obscene.

[truedelphi]

49. Hey, there, Fire Walk With Me, I really am on your side

Don't make this about a beef with me.

I know damn well the Admin has known for years about the robo signing and the rest of it.

I followed DU'er Octofish's posts for several years, regarding how well Tim Geithner's "talents" aided and abetted AIG and Goldman Sachs. To the detriment not only of all the other Big Players on Wall Street, but also all the citizens of this nation.

In any event - thank you for being on the side you are on. And for the work you do.

And here in California - where we could have a state legislature that followed what state legislatures did in the Nineteen Thirties (i.e. banning foreclosures) we instead have bought and paid for folks who are so closely tied to the banking industry that when bills are introduced that hold back the Big Banks by an inch or two, they see to it the bills are placed in the scrap heap, and that the Banks position to F___ us is even more solid than before.

[Fire Walk With Me]

50. Sorry, it's not personal, that's all "burn" against the issues.

Not you!

[this is serious]

63. Any Dem-focused group is adding to the problem...You cannot fix the corrupt system by voting for it!

Any Dem-focused group is adding to the problem, not solving it. You cannot fix the corrupt system by voting for it! "Our" representatives are not doing their job, not one whit.

Any group stealing Occupy's terminology and selling themselves as similar, while fully supporting the system previously and currently destroying the country is NOT Occupy, and is not welcome at all. They -are- the problem, not the solution (which is to create new systems obsoleting the old, new systems serving the people and not the rich). One cannot simultaneously be the problem and solve the problem.

Thank you sir or madam for having the courage to say this. I agree with this 100%.

"Any Dem-focused group is adding to the problem". Wow that is right on the money. Thank you for pointing that out.

I agree no group should be "stealing Occupy's terminology". How dare they, after we worked so hard coming up with all the terminology. Those are OUR ideas. Now all these fake groups are trying in and coming to steal our words and ideas. The nerve of some people. Half of them are front groups for the Democrats anyway. Those people at Move On have their fingers in every bit of it. They are trying to use the language of Occupy to get our email addresses to do fundraising for Dems!!!

Their actions are not even approved by a General Assembly!!!

[U4ikLefty]

33. Who are "OWS Pittsburgh 99%" are they like the Democrat Party?

[Mc Mike]

34. My Terminology, U

I could call them the 'Officials', but the phrase I was using was short for 'the people who started Pgh.'s local Occupy encampment on 10 - 15, worked with allies to outreach to 99% of Americans living in our region on economic and social justice issues, had their encampment forcibly dissolved on 2 - 8, and continue to outreach to the non-politicized 99% ers today.' There is a web site for them, no archive search capability on it though, it's called occupypittsburgh.org. I prefer their hard-copy media, contact and send submissions to occupypittsburghnow at gmail dot com.

Of course, a lot of the info on our computers could be considered cwestionable.

[U4ikLefty]

36. They are called Occupy Pittsburgh FYI

I'm sure you'd know that if you were involved in Occupy.

The fact that some in Occupy may be involved in other activism doesn't mean that those groups are part of Occupy. MoveOn will never be part of Occupy, because they are a wing of the Democratic party. The Dems are part of the problem...look at the NDAA.

If the "99% Spring" were honest, they would not use the appearance of Occupy to hook you into the institutional left.

If the "99% Spring" were allied with Occupy, they would be mentioning the May 1st General Strike. The fact that they don't is telling that they have another adgenda...outside of Occupy. The title of an article in another thread says it best "Occupy Wall Street and MoveOn Go Together Like Woodstock and 1999"

[Mc Mike]

39. I don't really understand you, Eu.

The fact that you're responding to a post where I gave their web site info, showing their 'official' name, says that I know what they're called. You siezed on my terminology in an earlier post to pick a disagreement, but the terminology was just for the purposes of defining 3 distinct groups, that look like allies to me. You're mad about Spring 99 using 'the 99%', then upset at me for not using the name 'Occupy Pittsburgh', which doesn't have '99%' in the name. Since my term 'official OWS 99%' was used to concede to pure Occupy members that they have a legit claim to the '99%' part, you got me coming and going. I'm not really sorry that I'm not involved in Occupy in a way that measures up to your standards, since I don't know you, but I'd rather share happiness and a laugh with an ally, than share a vituperative argument. All of our issues would progress better that way.

'Official' OWS 99% ers have to decide how to outreach to non-politicized members of the 99%, in what ways seem to be most effective for them. As an allied 99%er, I don't interfere with their internal decision making process, but humorless dogmatism is probably not the way to go. I've supported them as a rank-and-file 99%er more than a large majority of the local masses have, at their actions, through donations, by informing others about upcoming events, and through verbal and on-line arguments with right-wingers that attack them. I never showed up with voter registration forms, or Dem candidate literature, at their campsite or actions. Their movement has never been hurt by my participation, and they want the whole 99% population to be engaged, on the important issues Occupy works on locally and nationally.

I've been backing 99% causes around here for more than 25 years, before the 'officials' were a gleam in adbuster's (or whoever's) eye. The more successful they are, the better I like it.

You can't call me on the carpet for corporate moves that some Dems have made, at least you can't do so fairly.

Two 'official' Occupiers made the pitch for the May Day strike at the Spring 99% training, at the Postal Workers Union Hall on the Northside. That supports the General Strike. At the first two events for Spring, Occupiers handed out leaflets for the General Strike, both NYC's and Pgh's. Occupy hands out action info leaflets at Spring's actions, and Spring hands out action leaflets at Occupy's actions, not in competition, but in co-operation. Both have supported labor, and labor has supported both.

I support the 5-1 General Strike, now I just need my IBEW union hall to get me a job, so I can not show up to it on May Day. Otherwise, it takes some of the fun away from participating in it. Best wishes to you, and solidarity.

[U4ikLefty]

46. This isn't about you.

This is about the dishonest marketing ploy of the "99% Spring".

Occupy is NOT allied with the Democratic Party in any way. They never will be & if they ever do, that will be the end of Occupy. The sooner you realize that the better we will communicate.

If you are so involved in Occupy I would like to hear your experiences. Also don't try this "I may not be as pure as you" BS. You blurred the line with your language.

BTW, you are the one who started on this thread with:

"Minus One

I can't find the un rec button anymore, so I did what I could.

Nothing against you, x, I think the info comes from repug trolls who fear that Occupy, Spring 99, and rainbow Coalition Dems all have so much in common that they are naturally allied."

I certainly hope you are legit on supporting Occupy, but you ain't making a good case in this thread. MoveOn doesn't represent the ideals of Occupy.

[Mc Mike]

48. I hope post 40 will do as an apology

for coming into the occupy group and backing the Dems. It really was a mistake. Solidarity.

[Chan790]

38. I for one don't want an alliance.

Our aims are neither partisan nor compatible with the de-clawed moderated beancounting of the "mainstream" center-left more-center-than-left Democratic Party.

I am fierce. I am uncompromising. I am a radical and a liberal. I will hold my elected officials feet to the fire. I will punish them at the ballot-box for allying with the enemies of economic justice, throw them out and support economic liberals and the 99%.

[truedelphi]

43. + My household. n/t

[this is serious]

51. I agree with this. No Alliances, No compromises.

Last edited Wed Apr 25, 2012, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)

By the way this is my first post here. Thanks.

[TBF]

55. Since this is your first post you may wish to read the terms of service

Vote for Democrats.

Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

The rest is here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[this is serious]

56. Oops. Sorry about that. I edited it.

I was trying to join the Occupy section. But there is also a main terms or service. I'm not against Democrats. I was agreeing with somebody saying that we should support economic liberals and punish others at the ballot box. I'm new so I can understand double standards might apply for a while. Sorry again. Thanks for catching that.

[TBF]

57. No prob -

we also have a socialist progressives group where we like to talk about the future of socialism (how to go beyond Trotsky v. Stalin and transition to a more democratic socialism).

We also know it's a 2-party system in this country and vote accordingly given our reality. Welcome to DU!

[Chan790]

64. Yeah, don't take cues from me.

I'm a troublemaker liberal.

[U4ikLefty]

71. The TOS sounds soooooo "99% Spring"

[sabrina 1]

69. Excellent post, and expresses how more and more people feel. I admit to having been

far too willing to give this party a pass out of fear of the Republicans. That was a such a losing strategy I now realize. Thank you for putting it so well. Now is the time to pressure them, when they need our votes.

This insane strategy of becoming silent when there is 'an election coming up' could not be more ridiculous. We have very leverage anymore with our elected officials. The elections appear to be more of a battle over who gets the most corporate support and money. But to get that, they still need our votes and they should know that they can no longer take them for granted. Even if in the end, we have no choice, we sure should not be telling them that basically, they don't have to do anything for us. I can't think of a more losing strategy than that.

[hack89]

80. So where do those of us who are involved in partisan politics go?

are you saying that I have to shed my party affiliation to support OWS?

[this is serious]

53. 99% Spring is A HUGE fraud. They are front groups for the Obama Campaign

They are just trying to re-elect democrats and maintain the power hierarchy.

[Ruby the Liberal]

54. Why is re-electing Democrats a problem?

Maybe I am missing something here.

[this is serious]

58. They are trying to Co-Opt the Occupy movement and turn it into the Dems version of a tea party.

Electing Democrats is not a problem. But when Move On and other establishment groups come in and try to co-opt the Occupy Movement to turn it into just a tool of the Obama campaign, then that is a problem.

[TBF]

59. I'd ignore them if I were you -

I think the word is out about 99 spring ...

[Ruby the Liberal]

60. I gotcha.

Welcome to DU, BTW.

[eridani]

62. So? The Tea Party moved Repubs further to the right

Is there supposed to be something wrong with moving Dems further to the left?

[this is serious]

65. The point is that they are NOT OCCUPY. They don't even focus on the consensus decision process.

What the Dems do is up to them. But Occupy is NOT affiliated with any political party. It is autonomous and truly democratic.

99% Spring and 99% Power are just the same old institutional left groups dressed up with some new slogans to pretend they are like Occupy. Do you know it's main funders are old skool environmental groups and labor unions?

They are trying to CO-OPT us. They are trying to STEAL OUR IDEAS!!!

If they CLAIM to support Occupy, why not just really support it then? They want to be in charge of their own groups instead of going through the consensus process.

All these groups are heavily allied with the Democrats. You do know Move On is running it, right? They are a totally Dem-focused group.

And as we know "Any Dem-focused group is adding to the problem"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12522065#post63

[eridani]

66. There is no faster way to spread ideas than by having them stolen

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

There are a number of Dem Precinct Committee Officers in my local Occupy West Seattle. All strictly refrain from bringing up electoral politics unless specifically asked to.

[this is serious]

67. Those groups are just using the symbols of OWS to get followers and then they will turn political.

They will try to turn Occupy into an arm of the Democratic party and the Obama campaign.

They are trying to STEAL our ideas and undermine our May Day General Strike. We will never get anywhere through "alliances" with The Establishment. We must continue to work through the General Assembly process. That is where the democratic juices really get flowing. Feel the juices. It is the only true way to demonstrate another world is really possible. We have to continuing our occupations until we grow so big that we are everything. That's the only way. No political party can save you. Only through Occupying can you really feel the thrill of spreading the democratic juices.

[eridani]

68. Nonsense. At least in my area

Local Dems are staying strictly away from promoting candidates when they participate in Occupy. It really is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.

[U4ikLefty]

70. When there's a conflict between the Occupy & the Dems, I wonder which side they will choose?

Hmmmmmm

[eridani]

72. Both the Democratic Party and OWS are very large and diverse groups

People in both organizations have to choose sides re issues and/or candidates hundreds of times.

Helpful hint. Organizational territoriality does not facilitate organizing a mass movement.

[U4ikLefty]

73. Notice you didn't answer the question.

The Dems & Occupy will never be allied.

Occupy doesn't waffle when shit like the NDAA is signed.

Helpful hint. Don't try to equate Occupy with the Dems.

[eridani]

74. Plenty of local Dem activists hate the NDAA as much as anyone in Occupy

--and realize that only pressure from the outside of political parties will move the country in a more progressive direction. However, many also feel that it still matters who holds office, and that there is no other focal point for electoral politics where people have a clue about voter outreach besides Democrats.

[U4ikLefty]

75. In my months with Occupy I have talked with Socialists, Anarchists, Libertarians, and Progressives

and many others. I respect them because they reflect their ideology as part of the Occupy movement.

I see political parties as a different animal. They are there to hold power. I feel the system itself is corrupting & by the time someone acquires any real power, they have been vetted by TPTB (aka the 1%). I also feel that it is important who holds office, but the current one-party/one percent system has got to be undone...for the good of us all.

BTW, I speak only for myself and not for Occupy.

[eridani]

76. Holding power is bad?

If Occupy does not want power for the 99%, why does it exist? The only way to elect people to office is to belong to an organization that has that as its purpose, and that takes voter contact seriously. No third party formations qualify--they are mainly excuses for progressives to talk to each other instead of their neighbors.

[U4ikLefty]

77. The system is corrupt and power is held by those who cater to the 1%

I would repeat myself, but you can re-read my opinion in my last post.

Occupy is not about electing candidates. Occupy is a people's movement.

[eridani]

78. Of course Occupy is not about electing candidates

However, it still matters who holds public office, and other organizations are working on that.

[rhett o rick]

82. How is moveon trying to co-opt Occupy? That doesnt make the least bit of sense.

moveon has been working for years trying to get Congress more representative of the people. Some members have left to join Occupy. I would be totally shocked if any Occupy members quit and joined moveon.

I totally support Occupy but the movement is bigger than Occupy, as it must be. The protests in Wisconsin and Alaska and Florida, etc. are all part of the movement. They arent trying to change Occupy.

Beware of those that would try to split up the movement.

[truedelphi]

79. Yeah, that's such a good question.

I mean, remember how we all cheered on Nancy Pelosi when she started her successful impeachment proceedings against Pres Bush?

And then how we all cheered on the major re-write of the tax laws, so that people paying for health insurance and expensive over the counter meds got a break for those things?

And then Obama stood up to his Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, saying, "Tim, we need to loan out some money to people in the 35 states with the worst deficits. I mean, Timmy, if you need to know how to do this, I'll explain it for you - rather than letting some 255 billions of dollars go off to 'modernize' the military, and to aid the UAE and Israel with weaponry, (and in a mere fourteen month period,) let's put that money to use here, to bolster the states of the Union."


And then there was Obama's heroics once elected, to see to it that the Bush crowd was tried for their treasonous war against the people of Iraq, and for their torture provisions that were so harmful to our nation's image abroad?

And how we all cheered for the fact that Obama made it clear to Eric Holder that the Medical Marijuana laws had been elected by a majority in of voters in the state of California, and that therefore, Holder should honor the voters and leave grandmas in wheelchairs with MS alone? And so the medical marijuana clinics were left alone.

I could go on and on - I mean, remember how he had the EPA monitoring stations up and running to let the people of California know how much dangerous radiation was hitting them after Fukushima went up? Remember how the FDA told people in California not to drink milk or eat vegetables while the fallout containing rains from Japan were soaking the state?

And how Obama has made it clear to the nuke industry that he won't help them by loaning them 58 billions of dollars, since Fukushima proves that even in a nation more technologically driven than us, (Japan) the industry still cannot operate safely.


I could go on and on, but since actually none of the above happened, it's hard to.

[rhett o rick]

84. Help me out. I am a great advocate of change. The change the candidate Obama promised

but failed to deliver. I am a big supporter of Occupy. But I don't see where this is going. I support a non-violent revolution but it would have to be lead by intellectual and probably financial elites. We need a plan and I can't see a way without help from elites.
The Roosevelts were elites that believed that Americans deserved to be treated as humans. We need some modern day Roosevelts.

[hack89]

81. At least they have a mechanism for affecting real change

through the political process and legislation. They are the ones that will ultimately get results if OWS is unwilling to sully their purity by getting involve in politics.

[snot]

83. Agreeing with the OP.

They have a training series online, which I watched all of (and it took a while), and which was only marginally helpful.

[LiberalElite]

85. "didn't have the knees or ears" Oh NOOOOES

If the writer lives long enough s/he won't have the knees or ears anymore either. I am so sick of the Boomer bashing.

P.S. The comments on this article are from 2012.