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NanceGreggs

(27,816 posts)
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:16 AM Jan 2016

UPDATED POST: Frankly, My Dears, I Don't Give a Damn

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by LostOne4Ever (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

NOTE: I originally posted this in GD, but was advised to re-post in GDP by one of the forum hosts.



I don’t give a damn who Hilary has been photographed with, whose wedding she attended, or what clubs she belonged to in college.

I don’t give a damn about HRC’s campaign logo, her pantsuits, or how long her bathroom breaks are during debates.

I don’t give a damn who Bill Clinton slept with, is rumoured to have slept with, or who the people he associates with have allegedly slept with.

I don’t give a damn what RW bloggers, pundits, or journalists have to say about the Democratic primaries, current Democratic office-holders, or the Party as a whole.

I don’t give a damn about FaceBook “likes”, on-line “polls”, Twitter tweets, or who anyone’s nephew’s cousin’s roommate says they’re voting for.

I don’t give a damn what astrological charts, tea-leaf readings, or the interpretation of goat entrails are predicting about the 2016 election results.

I don’t give a damn what “some people are saying”, what some anonymous “person close to the campaign” has purportedly revealed, or what any other unverifiable/untraceable sources have stated under the guise of “wishing to remain anonymous”.

I don’t give a damn how many yard signs or bumper-stickers declare support for one candidate over another, nor do I believe such things are representative of anything – other than how many people like yard signs and bumper-stickers.

I DO give a damn about my country, where it’s headed, and who is best suited for the job of POTUS. My personal choice for the position is Hillary Clinton. For others, their personal choice is Bernie Sanders or Martin O’Malley. Touting the experience, achievements, and visions of all three candidates serves a positive purpose. Demeaning, ridiculing, and misrepresenting any Democratic contender serves only one purpose: to pit party members one against the other, in hopes that the inevitable in-fighting will divide-and-conquer Democratic voters.

THAT is how elections are lost. THAT is how voters are encouraged to stay home, and not vote at all. But most importantly, THAT is the Republican wet-dream. And the fact that there are so many posters here – on what purports to be a Democratic-supporting website – blatantly encouraging discord among their alleged “fellow Democrats” speaks to just how far this site has strayed from its originally-stated purpose. It also speaks to who is now permitted to post here, and how far they are allowed to go in promoting RW talking points under cover of being “disappointed Dems”.

DU was once reflective of the Party – its hopes, its dreams, its goals. It was a place where constructive criticism of the Party was expressed, and a gathering place for those with ideas to encourage the Party to be more representative of the wishes of current-day Democrats to exchange their views.

Sadly, DU has become the go-to site for RW talking points, a sanctuary for those whose clear intent is to be divisive, and a place where the vilest comments aimed at individual posters is deemed acceptable by “jurors” who don’t give a flying fuck what gets said here – so long as it isn’t said by someone they personally dislike.

Sadder still is the fact that the Admins and owner of this site continually shrug their shoulders and act as though they have no control over what gets posted here – when we all know better. They have complete control – they just choose to pretend otherwise.

For those of you who will respond to this OP with the inevitable, “If you hate DU, why do you post here?”, I would ask the more pertinent question: “If YOU hate all Democrats and have nothing but complaints about the Party, why are YOU posting here?” The answer to the latter is obvious: It’s because you know DU is no longer a Democratic website, and your anti-Democratic views are more than welcome here.

As a long-time DU member who was once very vested in the success of this site, I find it incredibly sad to say that I – along with the many members who have gone elsewhere to engage in meaningful discussion among actual Democrats – no longer give a damn about DU’s dwindling traffic, and its inability to break-even financially as a result thereof.

You reap what you sow. If you're going to hold yourself out as a Democratic-supporting site and then allow anti-Democratic spew to be posted without restraint, you're going to lose your Democratic members.

That's not advanced website theory based on scientific data. That's just common sense.



60 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
UPDATED POST: Frankly, My Dears, I Don't Give a Damn (Original Post) NanceGreggs Jan 2016 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2016 #1
Good post FuzzyRabbit Jan 2016 #2
I remember how happy I was to find this site. Now, I feel a little bad for the new members NBachers Jan 2016 #3
KnR, goat entrails and all. What you said is important. Hekate Jan 2016 #4
I think people are passionate about their candidate. Juicy_Bellows Jan 2016 #5
Post removed Post removed Jan 2016 #15
I HAVE to give a damn, I have 2 young children. Indepatriot Jan 2016 #6
You can stand with whoever you want to stand with. NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #10
Not a one of Indepatriot's statements was a RW talking point. JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #12
The minute I see ... NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #16
The Repukes have no problem with the 1% or Wall St. As for Third Way, that's closer to their brand JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #18
Don't forget oligarchy. ucrdem Jan 2016 #21
Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Cha Jan 2016 #25
gulp erp 'scuse me a sec Cha . . . ucrdem Jan 2016 #26
See! Cha Jan 2016 #29
Uhhh...huh. rpannier Jan 2016 #36
That's it.. ya got me! Cha Jan 2016 #41
I feel your agita! NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #35
+1001 Hekate Jan 2016 #40
Exactly. Cha Jan 2016 #14
The stalkers tried to get you on this one as well, Nance. Surya Gayatri Jan 2016 #47
Somebody is pretty thin-skinned. n/t Lil Missy Jan 2016 #51
As thin, transparent and ugly as Gollum's sickly pelt. Surya Gayatri Jan 2016 #54
Spot on. Nt. Juicy_Bellows Jan 2016 #11
well put n/t onenote Jan 2016 #7
Excellent post. blue neen Jan 2016 #8
Couldn't agree more, with the deepest regret. calimary Jan 2016 #49
K & R SunSeeker Jan 2016 #9
Roll eyes. nt artislife Jan 2016 #13
Yep and ..... LovingA2andMI Jan 2016 #53
You'll get replies that point to their loyalty for Sanders. JohnnyRingo Jan 2016 #17
Twelve years ago ... NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #22
I got here in the heyday of the fabled Meta forum. ucrdem Jan 2016 #24
Remember Kucinich rjsquirrel Jan 2016 #30
Purist. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2016 #19
Purist? NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #27
Nailed it world wide wally Jan 2016 #20
"Ya know, its so crazy ... NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #28
Wow, Nance.. thank you for eloquently putting it out there what Cha Jan 2016 #23
agreed Skittles Jan 2016 #31
Just great. Another "don't give a damn" voter. The rest of us do give a damn whereisjustice Jan 2016 #32
If what you've taken away from this OP ... NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #34
Nailed it, Nance! Excellent post about the sad state of DU these past years. BlueCaliDem Jan 2016 #33
All this madokie Jan 2016 #37
Nice rant rpannier Jan 2016 #38
Maybe the problem isn't everyone else Fearless Jan 2016 #39
This^^^^^ LovingA2andMI Jan 2016 #56
If Hillary Clinton wins... CSStrowbridge Jan 2016 #42
Food for thought in a big way. (eom) oasis Jan 2016 #43
Thank You Nance (nt) sunnystarr Jan 2016 #44
... handmade34 Jan 2016 #45
I think what you are seeing is a Democratic Party undergoing change, big change. jalan48 Jan 2016 #46
I think there's something to that. ucrdem Jan 2016 #52
I hope you are right if Hillary gets the nomination. jalan48 Jan 2016 #55
From another long-time subscriber to DU, Skidmore Jan 2016 #48
If the rules are enforced after Hillary is officially the nominee, they will not be allowed Lil Missy Jan 2016 #50
Thanks NG! Sancho Jan 2016 #57
I don't know why a host would tell you to re-post Disruptive Meta. demmiblue Jan 2016 #58
K & R Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #59
LOCKING THREAD LostOne4Ever Jan 2016 #60

Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

FuzzyRabbit

(1,968 posts)
2. Good post
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:26 AM
Jan 2016

Nance, I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts. I prefer Sanders, however, I will vote enthusiastically for Hillary if she is the Democratic nominee.

Both our front runners are worlds better than the vile, destructive idiots the Republicans are running

NBachers

(17,126 posts)
3. I remember how happy I was to find this site. Now, I feel a little bad for the new members
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:28 AM
Jan 2016

who are announced each day. I assume they were looking for sanity, refuge, and support. I wish we could offer it to them. But it's not the same place I was so relieved to find back in 2004.

Hekate

(90,737 posts)
4. KnR, goat entrails and all. What you said is important.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:30 AM
Jan 2016

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
5. I think people are passionate about their candidate.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:31 AM
Jan 2016

You've been posting here much longer than I, no doubt. However, I see most hateful RW posts and interlopers dealt with rather swiftly. Are there coy posters that skirt the rules? Sure, but mostly there is a passionate rift between those that support Sanders and those that prefer Clinton and a smattering of O'Malley supporters here and there.

Having said all that, I think the climate has shifted since 08 and DU is a decent place to post with some awesome contributors. It boils down, in my humble opinion, to the fact that a lot of us are still striving for meaningful change. We haven't given up. I commend the admins to mostly allow healthy discourse. I don't think we should shit all over each other but as I said passions are high. If you think traffic is down now, wait and see if Clinton secures the nomination. This place will be a ghost town.

Response to Juicy_Bellows (Reply #5)

 

Indepatriot

(1,253 posts)
6. I HAVE to give a damn, I have 2 young children.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:34 AM
Jan 2016

I don't want them growing up in a country where a Third Way, Wall Street owned Triangulator, who plays fast and loose with the truth, is running the party that's supposed to be championing the needs of the Working/ Middle Class. She can call herself a "progressive" all she wants too and it won't change the fact that she's a 1%er to the core. Some of us remember when the Democratic Party actually did stand tall and proud for the average citizen, but those days are just a distant memory. It's either make a stand now, or slide further into outright oligarchy. I'll stand now, for my children, and for my country. I'll stand with Senator Sanders.

NanceGreggs

(27,816 posts)
10. You can stand with whoever you want to stand with.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:41 AM
Jan 2016

The fact that your "standing" with Bernie is expressed not by saying a single positive thing about HIM, but instead parroting RW talking points about HRC and the Democratic Party, proves the point of my OP.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
12. Not a one of Indepatriot's statements was a RW talking point.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:46 AM
Jan 2016

Republicans don't hold a monopoly on calling out the untruths of HRC.

In fact the RWers would be loathe to characterize the Democratic party the way Indepatriot did -- they prefer terms like "tax and spend liberal" and "big government".

Though Democrats too are guilty of saying that the era of big government is over, parroting an actual RW line.

NanceGreggs

(27,816 posts)
16. The minute I see ...
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:08 AM
Jan 2016

... the terms Third Way, Wall Street owned, Triangulator, 1%er to the core strung together in a litany of complaints, my bullshit meter goes off the scales.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
18. The Repukes have no problem with the 1% or Wall St. As for Third Way, that's closer to their brand
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:15 AM
Jan 2016

than progressivism.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
21. Don't forget oligarchy.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:17 AM
Jan 2016

That one gives me heartbern.

Cha

(297,378 posts)
25. Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy! Oligarchy!
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:29 AM
Jan 2016

Sorry, I thought maybe a rash of Oligarchyies might make it go away!

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
26. gulp erp 'scuse me a sec Cha . . .
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:30 AM
Jan 2016


There, all better!

Cha

(297,378 posts)
29. See!
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:34 AM
Jan 2016

LOL

rpannier

(24,330 posts)
36. Uhhh...huh.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:17 AM
Jan 2016

Your blatant overuse of the word oligarchy has shined the light upon you.
We now know, despite your comments to the contrary, that you really are an oligarchy... oligrachist... oligarch... whatever
I am certain you wear a top hat, a monocle and have at least 4 names... probably you're a third or a fourth as well

Most likely you... with your top hat

Hope this plays as well as it does in bars when I say similarfor laughs
If not, my apologies.

Have a great day... (i like Halloween)

Cha

(297,378 posts)
41. That's it.. ya got me!
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:25 AM
Jan 2016


You have a great day.. mine isn't over yet out here in the middle of nowhere..



NanceGreggs

(27,816 posts)
35. I feel your agita!
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:12 AM
Jan 2016

Hekate

(90,737 posts)
40. +1001
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:24 AM
Jan 2016

Cha

(297,378 posts)
14. Exactly.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:56 AM
Jan 2016
 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
47. The stalkers tried to get you on this one as well, Nance.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:04 AM
Jan 2016

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Tue Jan 5, 2016, 01:44 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

You can stand with whoever you want to stand with.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=974678

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The poster explained why they do give a damn about the election and now they're being accused of parroting right wing talking points?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jan 5, 2016, 01:50 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's an attack on the post, not a personal attack. One may agree or disagree, but it's not hideable.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Abusive alert.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: If it wasn't something done on both sides, I'd say hide it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: 2 demerits for the alerter.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Not sure this should get the hide, but Nance's awful OP certainly should.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
51. Somebody is pretty thin-skinned. n/t
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:09 AM
Jan 2016
 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
54. As thin, transparent and ugly as Gollum's sickly pelt.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:24 AM
Jan 2016

Stalking in the shadows like Gollum, too.

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
11. Spot on. Nt.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:45 AM
Jan 2016

onenote

(42,715 posts)
7. well put n/t
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:36 AM
Jan 2016

blue neen

(12,324 posts)
8. Excellent post.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:40 AM
Jan 2016

DU used to be a very educational and informational place. It's just sad what has been allowed to happen here.

calimary

(81,350 posts)
49. Couldn't agree more, with the deepest regret.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:05 AM
Jan 2016

It is terribly sad, blue neen. I found my way here in early 2001. DU got me through bush/cheney. It got me through the first days after my mom died. I miss the way it was. People were a lot more civil to each other and there was an overriding sense that we were all in this together. Now - it's deteriorated so badly that I no longer feel at home here.

SUPERB rant, as usual, Nance. Needs to be said, read, and spread.

SunSeeker

(51,578 posts)
9. K & R
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:40 AM
Jan 2016
 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
13. Roll eyes. nt
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 03:50 AM
Jan 2016

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
53. Yep and .....
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:22 AM
Jan 2016

JohnnyRingo

(18,637 posts)
17. You'll get replies that point to their loyalty for Sanders.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:13 AM
Jan 2016

...but it's clear that your beef isn't with the candidate himself, but with insufferable and uncompromising supporters here who attack anyone who isn't on their side with vengeance. No where in the post did you go after Bernie for running his campaign, but too many will read it that way and explain why you're "wrong" for attacking him.

Like so many here, I don't dislike either candidate, but have to endure personal comments that I'm either not liberal enough to post here or I somehow hate people's children for not going full Bernie. If Sanders somehow pulls it off, I'll be behind him without reservation, but I never want anyone to think I'm one of his rabid attack dogs straining at the chain at the scent of every Clinton supporter.

As a hopeful aside, I saw a similar situation here twelve years ago when Dennis Kucinich was running. There was a liberal pissing contest that brought out the very worst in people, but DU persevered.

NanceGreggs

(27,816 posts)
22. Twelve years ago ...
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:23 AM
Jan 2016

... the TOS was enforced, and Mods ensured that rules were adhered to. That's why DU survived.

Now there are no rules.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
24. I got here in the heyday of the fabled Meta forum.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:27 AM
Jan 2016

Thought it was brilliant. Kind of a backstage for the fight club. Still miss it.

 

rjsquirrel

(4,762 posts)
30. Remember Kucinich
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:37 AM
Jan 2016

Lol.

Great OP NsnceGregg. I agree with you.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
19. Purist.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:15 AM
Jan 2016

Party Purist, that is.

NanceGreggs

(27,816 posts)
27. Purist?
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:30 AM
Jan 2016

Hardly.

I'm not the one calling for ridding the party of those who I've personally decided are not left enough, progressive enough, liberal enough, etc.

I think we all know who is applying purity tests here - as they don't hesitate to proclaim who "has to go" and who should be "allowed" to stay in the Party.

world wide wally

(21,748 posts)
20. Nailed it
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:17 AM
Jan 2016

A site for Dems?
What a concept

NanceGreggs

(27,816 posts)
28. "Ya know, its so crazy ...
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:32 AM
Jan 2016

... it just might work!"

And once upon a time, it worked extremely well.

Cha

(297,378 posts)
23. Wow, Nance.. thank you for eloquently putting it out there what
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:26 AM
Jan 2016

so many of us have had trouble wrapping out heads around.

I don't give a damn about who anybody else supports but I do give a damn about what happened to this board.

DU is a minefield of Alerts, Hides, and Censoring. Some posts actually do deserve hides.. I sent one of my rare alerts on one today.. I was not the first to alert and it was actually hidden.

But, there are too many on those who just don't like what the person has to say.. so instead of replying, an alert is sent out.. no doubt thinking they have a good chance of getting a hide for the poster.

And, some have actually lied in their alert comments to get their way. That happened to me(but, I'm not the only one) as many know by now, because it blew my mind and I keep bringing it up. I've been watching what I say.. walking on freaking eggshells and it still didn't matter because the Alerter flat out LIED. How fair is that for a "Democratic" site? Who does that?

"DU was once reflective of the Party – its hopes, its dreams, its goals. It was a place where constructive criticism of the Party was expressed, and a gathering place for those with ideas to encourage the Party to be more representative of the wishes of current-day Democrats to exchange their views."

The "constructive criticism" has been taken over by cheap ignorant pot shots.. the more venomous the better for some. A place to spew rather than to have intelligent debates.

The saving grace is that it reflects solely on them rather than their target. But, that doesn't help the tenor of DU.








Skittles

(153,169 posts)
31. agreed
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:48 AM
Jan 2016

I still despise the Obama swooners but they have been trounced by the Hillary/Bernie fanboys/gals

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
32. Just great. Another "don't give a damn" voter. The rest of us do give a damn
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 04:59 AM
Jan 2016

that's why we pay attention to the behavior and history of a candidate. It's why we don't want Hillary anywhere near the White House.

Hillary and her money washing, influence peddling foundation, neo-conservative adventures in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yeman, her unapologetic support of Wall Street interests over the middle class and below, her support of NAFTA, support for private prisons and tough on crime sentencing, etc have all been great for Hillary but shit for America.

Yeah, I guess we give a damn that the DNC is promoting a candidate who represents only the most narrow interests of the most exclusive and entitled Americans.

So should you.

NanceGreggs

(27,816 posts)
34. If what you've taken away from this OP ...
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:06 AM
Jan 2016

... is that I am a "don't give a damn voter", you've obviously missed the point.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
33. Nailed it, Nance! Excellent post about the sad state of DU these past years.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:02 AM
Jan 2016

I agree 100%.



Too much of this:

Demeaning, ridiculing, and misrepresenting any Democratic contender serves only one purpose: to pit party members one against the other, in hopes that the inevitable in-fighting will divide-and-conquer Democratic voters.

Not enough of this:

Touting the experience, achievements, and visions of all three candidates serves a positive purpose.

and rec'd.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
37. All this
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:17 AM
Jan 2016

coming from the most divisive personality here at DU
My o my

rpannier

(24,330 posts)
38. Nice rant
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:20 AM
Jan 2016

You're in solid form
Good job

Fearless

(18,421 posts)
39. Maybe the problem isn't everyone else
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:20 AM
Jan 2016

Maybe the issue lies with your perspective of what DU SHOULD be. You don't get to decide what others think. Or what others express. Sorry, that's not how it works.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
56. This^^^^^
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:26 AM
Jan 2016

CSStrowbridge

(267 posts)
42. If Hillary Clinton wins...
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:25 AM
Jan 2016

If Hillary Clinton wins... Oh my god, she would make an amazing president.
If Bernie Sanders wins... Oh my god, he would make an amazing president.
If Martin O’Malley wins... Oh my god... he's still running for president?

I kid. I kid.

The fact is, any of these three Democrats would be 100 times a better president than any of the Republicans. We need to work together to make sure the good guys win this time around.

oasis

(49,393 posts)
43. Food for thought in a big way. (eom)
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:31 AM
Jan 2016

sunnystarr

(2,638 posts)
44. Thank You Nance (nt)
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:31 AM
Jan 2016

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
45. ...
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:46 AM
Jan 2016

jalan48

(13,873 posts)
46. I think what you are seeing is a Democratic Party undergoing change, big change.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 05:55 AM
Jan 2016

Personally, it reminds me of 1967-1968. Many establishment Democrats like Humphrey were telling us to stay the course in Vietnam while other more liberal candidates were questioning why we were there and encouraging change. Humphrey was a good man in many ways but he represented a type of thinking that was out of touch with America and the direction the the country was going. I feel much the same way about Hillary and people like Debbie Schultz. To me they represent a Wall Street version of our party that needs to go, this version does not represent what's best for the average American. And like the 60's, something has to give. Will the Democratic Party see that becoming more conservative and more like Republicans of the 80's is a losing strategy? I hope so or if not, you will see a party that is no longer relevant.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
52. I think there's something to that.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:18 AM
Jan 2016

It's a different media landscape, the middle east is not a smoking ruin, well parts of it are, Lehman Brothers didn't just tank and take half the economy with it, terrorism is a problem but frankly not an urgent one. Our biggest problem is currently the economy and that's a Clinton's specialty.

But I think you're overlooking an important fact, namely, that Hillary has also changed. She's a much better candidate than in '08. If part of the credit goes to Sanders, I'll gladly give him his due, though I think most probably goes to Barack and Bill. She's not the kinder gentler neocon she seemed to be in 2003 and she's not the senator of Wall Street she seemed to be in 2008. It's really remarkable if you let yourself see it.


p.s. very sorry to see Nance locked out of her own thread.

jalan48

(13,873 posts)
55. I hope you are right if Hillary gets the nomination.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:26 AM
Jan 2016

I fear that corporations which have invested in her and the Clinton Foundation will be asking for a return on their investment. I was very idealistic about Obama, with Hillary, not at all.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
48. From another long-time subscriber to DU,
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:04 AM
Jan 2016

a hearty thank you for your analysis. Common sense seems to be a quality in short supply these days.

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
50. If the rules are enforced after Hillary is officially the nominee, they will not be allowed
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:08 AM
Jan 2016

to vomit all that nonsense about HRC being the antichrist here anymore while they insist simultaneously that Bernie farts rainbows. I'm kinda looking forward to being able to have mature/adult/rational dialogs here after they leave, or get shown the door - whichever the case.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
57. Thanks NG!
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 07:20 AM
Jan 2016

Whatever the motivation, DU has lost my energy for 2016 if not forever. It's no longer a Democratic site - RW talking points, professional operatives, and a waste of time for real progressives. No one could have said it better.

Sadly, DU has become the go-to site for RW talking points, a sanctuary for those whose clear intent is to be divisive, and a place where the vilest comments aimed at individual posters is deemed acceptable by “jurors” who don’t give a flying fuck what gets said here – so long as it isn’t said by someone they personally dislike.

Sadder still is the fact that the Admins and owner of this site continually shrug their shoulders and act as though they have no control over what gets posted here – when we all know better. They have complete control – they just choose to pretend otherwise.

demmiblue

(36,866 posts)
58. I don't know why a host would tell you to re-post Disruptive Meta.
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 07:29 AM
Jan 2016
DISRUPTIVE META-DISCUSSION

Positive threads about Democratic Underground or its members are are permitted.

Threads complaining about Democratic Underground or its members; threads complaining about jury decisions, locked threads, suspensions, bannings, or the like; and threads intended to disrupt or negatively influence the normal workings of Democratic Underground and its community moderating system are not permitted.


Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
59. K & R
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 07:32 AM
Jan 2016

Yes, I expect a Democrat site to be a Democrat site. I dont go on RW sites, very seldom listen to Rush, Sean, Coulter shows for a good reason, the insanity there is the norm. Yes, I know there are RW shills here, they like to disrupt our site. Thanks for posting, truth is good for the soul.

LostOne4Ever

(9,289 posts)
60. LOCKING THREAD
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 07:32 AM
Jan 2016
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