No, Bernie's election won't make all "the venal and craven aspects" go away...

[Ken Burch]

...but at least we'll know that the president we've elected is actually against those aspects and will TRY to fight them.

That matters.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. He won't just give lip service; he will actually work to change things. It matters a lot. n/t

[daleanime]

52. Yes it does...

[tecelote]

2. We need a turn to the left.

Hillary is going to veer right.

Bernie may not pull off a full 180 but he'll get us on track for a better America.

It's time for real change.

[Rebkeh]

12. +1 nt

[uponit7771]

3. Cause the last couple of dems prez's completely sold us out and were worthless !!!! :rolleyes:

Obama completed ~ 80% of his promises, Clinton was damn good too... neither perfect but neither was any other dem progressive prez in America's past.

None of the past dem progressive presidents could throw stones either...

... and neither can any of the current dem candidates, no matter how rosy some glasses get.

[TM99]

6. No shit, that is the problem with both Clinton

and Obama.

He identified himself as a moderate 1980's Republican. We didn't want 80% of those promises fulfilled. We sure as shit don't want Clinton's who is further right than Obama is.

[uponit7771]

7. The "problem" with Obama and Clinton are they were great and damn good?!?! He never said he

... was a moderate republican, that's a winger lie.

He said OTHERs would ID him as that regardless of his stances...

Obama's list was posted before he was elected, to say people didn't want that list is not reality...

People who voted for Obama wanted a progressive agenda and got it, facts matter.

[TM99]

9. Nope, that was hardly a winger lie.

In an interview where he was asked if his economic policies were socialist, he replied thusly --

Yes, facts matter. To bad, you don't seem to know them.

Obama sold a nice PR ploy of Hope & Change. He was NOT a progressive. He is a New Dem. Sorry the truth hurts, I know, but most Democrats have now gotten it after seeing the ACA, TPP, etc. come to pass under his watch.

[Enthusiast]

22. Yooj Plus One!

[uponit7771]

35. 1. You cut the question off like they do, 2. He never said what you claimed... period...

.. I've seen this vid too many times and you can't dispute either of the points without must obfuscation.

I'm not a LIV... been around for second

[TM99]

37. Bullshit.

He was asked if his policies were 'socialistic'. He replied as the video demonstrates.

Those were his words. I realize that you must have a psychological block to hearing it but he said.

[uponit7771]

48. "Id be considered" != "I consider myself" what you posted was false, the first is his words verbatim

[TM99]

53. Nitpicking I see to try

to avoid the truth. New Dems consider themselves to be 'liberals', 'progressives', etc. It doesn't mean they are.

So fine, you have a great day!

[Number23]

11. "that's a winger lie" Pretty much

Anyone that chooses to characterize:

The fact of the matter is, my policies are so mainstream that if I'd have set the same policies back in the 1980s I would have been considered a moderate Republican

as "Oh yeah baby, I'm a moderate Republican!!" is not worth a second of your time.

[Ed Suspicious]

16. So mainstream they used to be republican. You see no problem with this?

Don't bother replying.

[Number23]

18. So mainstream that in the 1980s he would have been CONSIDERED a moderate Republican

When such a thing existed. Saying that his policies would have been CONSIDERED moderate Republican 30 years ago is a strange comment, but it is not in any way the same thing as saying "I am a Moderate Republican" and every half way honest person recognizes that.

Don't bother replying.

I won't again and wish you hadn't to begin with.

[kjones]

39. Speaking of things that used to be other things

When did Left Wingers start sounding like Right Wingers?

It's been too wacky for too long around here.

[uponit7771]

49. Yeap, tons of LPC posters using winger memes

[tazkcmo]

45. So he would have supported Reagan?

I don't know how this is any better than what you are refuting.

[kjones]

54. Reagan, a moderate republican?

...But it's nice to see how dedicated some people still are to trashing
Obama, and he's not even running for anything anymore.

[Number23]

55. And yet, politicans (and former DUers) who openly admitted to VOTING for Reagan are

lionized here.

But it's nice to see how dedicated some people still are to trashing
Obama, and he's not even running for anything anymore.

Absolutely. And it's hilarious to see so many of this same crew now running around acting as though they've always supported this man when they've done nothing of the damn sort and everyone knows it.

Actually trying to pretend that someone saying "my POLICIES are so mainstream that IN THE 1908s they would have been CONSIDERED (by others to be) moderate Republican" is the same thing as someone saying "now, in the 21st century, I am a Moderate Republican."

And keep your eyes open. A week from now if not sooner, somebody else will post this exact same video and claim that it's Obama saying he's a moderate Republican. No matter how many times this lie has been debunked, rebunked and debunked again, a determined few just keep pulling it out of the trash apparently oblivious that trying to keep it going says far more about them than their target.

[uponit7771]

36. You're kidding right!? Context matters and you cut the context out of the vid. Either way...

... the vid is a winger mainstay and we all know it

[kjones]

38. ...and Honest Abe was a Republican, what of it?

His comment was, for the most part, to point out how far right the Republicans
have shifted in the past thirty years. It was a dig against Republicans...
but by all means, use it to bash the Democratic POTUS.

[Ed Suspicious]

40. I didn't like moderate Republican positions in the 1980s.

[kjones]

41. Probably didn't like the moderate Democrats either *shrug*

[Ed Suspicious]

42. They're a horse a piece, eh? 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other?

[kjones]

43. Sounds kind of broadbrush to me

But if we're talking about "sames"...I've generally found that doing away with the middle,
or in this case moderates, tends to be about the same as "you're either with us, or
against us."

The funny thing is, I think I've heard quite a bit about Bernie's strategy to "peel" off
or pull over some moderate conservatives as his ticket through the primaries...or
at least that was the buzz around here with some of the Bernie people not too long
ago.

[tazkcmo]

44. He said it.

Deal with it.

[uponit7771]

50. This is false, he never said the words or context the posters said he did.

[Phlem]

19. I know right?

It's awesome that all the bankers who ruined the US economy are in jail, and that prescription drug prices are not going through the roof. Whew! Glad none of the Clintons and Obama had any Wall Street or Pharmaceutical ties.

Thank god we've got all this money flooding in for elections because that's how we're going to find a leader that cares about governing. Go Hillary!!

Also no more wars and a huge influx of living wage jobs are drowning us.

And I swear, if one more mega corporate entity pays their fare share of taxes, I'm just going to explode!!!

I'm sorry but the Clintons and Obama just make FDR look pitiful.

Sing it out loud for everyone to hear!!!!

[Enthusiast]

23. You would make TWM proud!

[Phlem]

26. That's an exceptional compliment.

Thank You.

[Enthusiast]

33. You're welcome.

[TDale313]

4. Yep, it matters a lot.

Having a President who sees the problems, is and is willing to talk about them and fight to fix them makes a huge difference. I'm not naive enough to think his election will stop all the Republican obstruction. I do think he'd do a much better job making the case to the American people.

[saltpoint]

5. Agree with this, Ken Burch, and would throw

in a point that 'venal' has been achieved by a famous Republican of these recent generations, one Richard Milhouse Nixon:

- - - - -

“It is Nixon himself who represents that dark, venal and incurably violent side of the American character that almost every country in the world has learned to fear and despise."

-- Hunter S. Thompson

- - - - -

[LWolf]

8. It's the first step. nt

[Babel_17]

10. Can't have the people get more cynical than they already are

It's just not sustainable, and the wheels come off this shared society of ours.

[Uncle Joe]

13. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Ken Burch.

[WillyT]

14. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Amimnoch]

15. Well hell, if blank check promises and a try is all it takes to be president,

I promise world peace,
$1 million to every citizen.
Tesla cars for every driveway
An end to cancer, heart disease, lung disease.. Hell, I promise immortality for everyone!

My name is Amimnoch and I approve this message.


Personally, I'll stick with actual progress, proven history, and the capability to actually get the 115th congress to pass bills that will continue the progress that President Obama started.

Much better than someone who will "try", even though there is obviously no version of congress that will make success possible.

[neverforget]

20. Trying is the first step towards failure

[pnwmom]

29. +1. n/t

[tazkcmo]

46. Difference.

Track record, integrity. Two things you nor your candidate have.

[bigwillq]

17. True.

K and R

[Enthusiast]

21. That's all I ask, Ken. Someone with a true heart that recognizes the problems and tries hard.

As President Bernie will tell the people why Medicare for All is better than the status quo.

He will tell the people why we must reenact Glass Steagal and why it was a mistake to end it.

He will explain the destructive nature of the trade deals and why it is necessary to preserve American manufacturing jobs.

We will have someone on our side, for a change.

[stupidicus]

24. it would be nice to have someone not the "bull"

to take the bull by the horns.

The election of Bernie is by no means a cure to all that ails us in the short term, but it will show the many that need it, what is possible going forward.

Hopefully it will snowball from there.

[sadoldgirl]

25. My greatest hope is that

Obama will be unable to pass the TPP, and Bernie as
President would shred it.

[Art_from_Ark]

34. Shred that thing into microscopic pieces,

then burn them and bury the ashes in the Ronald Reagan Memorial Toxic Waste Dump.

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. Exactly!! You can learn to walk until at first you learn to crawl

Just to have a President who gets the country crawling and then taking baby steps toward a more just society that is at peace with the world would be a huge step forward in itself

[2pooped2pop]

28. It sure does. And so far, he is the only one that will call out the bullshit that is destroying all

of us.

[99Forever]

30. Exactly.

No more lies.

Sanders '16

Feel the Bern.

[liberal_at_heart]

31. I just want someone willing to fight for the American people. That's all. That is why I like Bernie.

[hopemountain]

32. it is critical bernie is elected.

he is the only candidate for the people and not the almighty greed of the corporations.

[raouldukelives]

47. And that is what scares them the most. nt

[AuntPatsy]

51. It should matter, equality matters