I am supporting Hillary Clinton. Here's what I am not.

[MineralMan]

My first statement in the title comes as no surprise to anyone, and I've explained why I am supporting her in the primaries. Because of that people have made all sorts of assumptions about me and others like me who are Clinton supporters. I've been called all sorts of things due to my support. Here is what I have been called but am not:

An Oligarch - I have one vote, and have never sought any public office. I cannot be an oligarch.
An Authoritarian - I have no authority over anyone but myself, nor do I want any such authority.
A Right-Winger - Nope. I'm a Democrat and have been since 1960, when I first worked on a presidential campaign for JFK.
A Paid Shill - I make my living writing, but have never written about politics for money, nor will I ever.
A Third Wayer - I've still never been to that organization's website, and couldn't tell you anything about them.
A DLCer - That organization no longer exists, and I had never heard of it before coming to DU.
A Freeper - I posted on that website for some time, mostly in opposition to creationism and racism. I was banned there for "anti-freeping" in 2006, and have not even read that website since, except through a link from DU.
A 1%er - That's laughable. In my entire working life, I've never made over $40K and that only for a couple of years. Most years, I have earned under $20K. Today, I'm on Social Security and earn less than $15K for additional work.
A Troll - I have posted an average of 1 OP per day on DU since I joined in November of 2008. Most of my posts are replies to others. Anytime I post an OP, it is after a good deal of thought. Some days I post no OPs. Other days I post one or two. Rarely three. I don't expect people to agree with my OPs. I post them to start discussions.
A Hippie Puncher - Silliness. Anyone who knows me would laugh at that name. At 70, I'm the very model of an aged hippie. I've been called a hippie more times than I can remember. My nieces and nephews and their children call me "Uncle Freak."

I will continue to support Hillary Clinton in the primaries. I like Bernie Sanders very much, but cannot see a path for him to the nomination. I hope he continues to serve as the conscience of the Senate. He has done that very, very well. I'll continue to defend him against stupid attacks that are not based in truth. I believe that people should vote for the candidate they prefer in the primaries. That's how our system works. In the general election, I believe we have a binary choice and that every Democratic vote is essential, so I encourage people to vote for the Democratic nominee.

[SunSeeker]

1. K & R

[Romulox]

2. Right. You're famously an "Ex" Freeper, though. nt

[PowerToThePeople]

4. I will admit that people can evolve.

But, If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[lewebley3]

96. Hillary doesn't walk like a duck: She has walked as Dem for 30 years

[PowerToThePeople]

109. Did I mention her?

[lewebley3]

139. You implications were obvious:Hillary is the only on underattack here

[Betty Karlson]

137. She walked the third way. eom

[lewebley3]

138. She walked to a winning a Presidency: that helped build middle class

Bush and the GOP crashed the economy: Hillary
is not an ideologue: that is Tom Hartman, he keeps
pushing the third way: because he cannot think
out of the box of an ideologue.

Hillary like FDR is a very practical politician: when Clinton's
were in office they made budget that lifted all Americans.

If Hillary has any theory at all about politics is that the GOP
are terrible for America

[MineralMan]

8. Imagine my surprise at hearing from you...

You have exaggerated my fame, though. I'm really not famous for anything, really.

[Romulox]

10. You posted some very hateful things to that *other* site. Redemption requires repentance. nt

[Rose Siding]

22. You would prefer an ex-Trump supporter?

Once BS converts them, I mean?

[Romulox]

23. Not if they had left a trail of hateful posts over at that "other" site, no. nt

[peacebird]

52. If listening to Bernie causes them to realise supporting racist misogynist Trump is a bad idea, then

Sure! I will welcome them with open arms! Assuming that they have truly evolved from their previous views. After all, isn't that what I am expected to do re: Hillary's past on GLBT rights? And countless other issues? Accept that she has 'evolved' into a true progressive?

I may have trouble with that tho, because someone strong on womens and childrens rights would not be in favor of cluster bombs... And Hillary has supported keeping cluster bombs.

[Romulox]

34. Just to be clear, the "You" you refer to is Mineral Man, not me!

[randome]

35. Speak for yourself. Without the word 'nobody'.

You can generally tell what kind of mindset someone is coming from over time. MineralMan has made many interesting posts and points over the years. It doesn't matter what he once was, what matters is who he is today.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[Romulox]

37. Today, he's one of DU's most conservative posters.

I'm sure it's just a big coinky-dinky that he's also left a trail of hateful comments at those "other" sites, too.

[ismnotwasm]

39. ..

[artislife]

44. I wondered why to some he just wasn't annoying but harmless.

Now I know.

[MineralMan]

45. Very clever, that.

You did a Google search. I looked at that list of results for the first couple of pages. Mostly non-political, which was my general trend on that website. I didn't even know it still existed.

There were some McCain supporters there, to be sure. I felt sorry for them when he lost. I know which post you're referencing. It's been posted many times, so I guess it's on file somewhere as something that can be used to go after me. In context, it's clear that I'm just sympathizing with people who supported him.

Still, you went to that trouble to do that search and create a shortcut link so others could look at it, too. Very enterprising, to be sure. I'm a little surprised at your interest in me, though. I've been away from DU for a few days. Interesting.

[Buzz Clik]

85. Mineral Man and I are leaning toward different candidates

He has HIGH cred in my eyes. Your post strikes me as being narrow minded and borderline intolerant.

[DFW]

76. That's like calling a Freeper a convert to socialism

Just because he came to DU to troll us for while.

[Zynx]

163. Forever saddling people for past mistakes when they've truly changed is a vile thing to do.

Really, grow up.

[guillaumeb]

3. How very rude of you. You eliminated many of the names that I was going

to call you, as well as all of the accusations going to your good faith and moral compass. Now I must exercise my anger by kicking a small animal. And it is all your fault if I get arrested for the abuse.

[MineralMan]

6. Why, the very idea! I'm on my landline phone calling

the ASPCA this very minute.

[guillaumeb]

13. Thank you. Now I can tell my children that their parents are not the

only people who still have land line phones.
PS
I changed my mind on the abuse. I went outside looking for a squirrel to kick and stepped in some raccoon shit. I took that as a sign from heaven to leave the animals alone.

[MineralMan]

19. Raccoon shit. While visiting my

91-year-old parents over Christmas, I discovered that a raccoon had been climbing their exterior stairs and crapping on the top step to their balcony. I cleaned up the mess and built a gate for the bottom of the stairs to stop that from happening again. My father doesn't need to be cleaning up crap at his age.

As for squirrels, we arranged to have someone throw out peanuts for them while we were gone. They're sort of family pets, I guess.

Be nice to the animals. Thanks!

[Laser102]

66. We thank you for your restraint. I will however forgive kicking a repug. Have at it!

[guillaumeb]

69. How to stop at one kick?

For the GOP person, not the raccoon.

[Laser102]

72. Understood.

[brooklynite]

5. You didn't cover "thoughtless"....."brainwashed"....."responding to name recognition"...

[MineralMan]

7. I didn't want to create a 'wall of words...'

[Bleacher Creature]

9. What a great, great post. Thank you. nt

[MineralMan]

11. No. Thank you.

You're too kind.

[Scootaloo]

12. Down the list...

An Oligarch - I have one vote, and have never sought any public office. I cannot be an oligarch.

Is shorthand for saying that you support the concept and exercise of oligarchy, rather than being one of the oligarchs yourself.

An Authoritarian - I have no authority over anyone but myself, nor do I want any such authority.

Being an authoritarian does not require having authority. It means a belief that those who have power must be right at all times because htey have that power; that htye are above question, and any who dares express questions or criticism of The Leader is a terrible person, an enemy.

A Right-Winger - Nope. I'm a Democrat and have been since 1960, when I first worked on a presidential campaign for JFK.

"Right-winger" and "Democrat" are not antonyms.

A Paid Shill - I make my living writing, but have never written about politics for money, nor will I ever.

Well, you'd have to find someone willing to pay for the quality of your political output.

A Third Wayer - I've still never been to that organization's website, and couldn't tell you anything about them.
A DLCer - That organization no longer exists, and I had never heard of it before coming to DU.

Both are references to the political values espoused by these groups. Values that did not disappear whe nthe groups "officially' changed their names to omething else, and that were by no means isolated to said groups. if you're curious about what those values are, maybe look it up.

A Freeper - I posted on that website for some time, mostly in opposition to creationism and racism. I was banned there for "anti-freeping" in 2006, and have not even read that website since, except through a link from DU.

Excellent.

A 1%er - That's laughable. In my entire working life, I've never made over $40K and that only for a couple of years. Most years, I have earned under $20K. Today, I'm on Social Security and earn less than $15K for additional work.

Cool. So why o you support candidates and policy tailor-made for people who are? it's a curious thing.

A Troll - I have posted an average of 1 OP per day on DU since I joined in November of 2008. Most of my posts are replies to others. Anytime I post an OP, it is after a good deal of thought. Some days I post no OPs. Other days I post one or two. Rarely three. I don't expect people to agree with my OPs. I post them to start discussions.

Given that you likened a data breach to raping a woman, i don't think you can call yourself pure as the dricven snow on this number, either.

[MineralMan]

14. Thank you for your detailed reply.

It must have taken some thought and time.

[Scootaloo]

18. Not much time, actually

You may not be any of those things, but your rationale for why you aren't are pretty bad. I think you can do better. after all, you think very carefully, and write for a living.

[guillaumeb]

16. Ouch.

I think that Mineral Man was aiming at a more lighthearted tone, in contrast to many of the rather heated words here. But that is only my opinion.

[MineralMan]

21. Bingo. Not everyone is light of heart, though.

More's the pity.

[SCantiGOP]

60. I'll stand with you MineralMan

Scootaloo's post was one of the more caustic I have seen here. Serves as kind of a template for what irritates a lot of us about the tone coming - not from the Sanders campaign - but from many, many of his supporters here.

[DFW]

74. A vital important distinction, indeed

Like Gandhi's observation on Christ and Christians.

[Scootaloo]

123. Pointing out that he doesn't understand the terms he's using is "caustic"?

Huh.

By "caustic' do you actually mean "not falling over with praise"?

[Warren Stupidity]

83. Can we award you the internets?

[randys1]

104. Look at the time and effort you put into a post by a person who supports BOTH candidates.

Prefers one over the other but says nothing negative.

Now of the two of you, which post is more likely to discourage someone from voting at all, let alone Democratic?

[Scootaloo]

122. Very little time, not much effort.

And sorry, but alluding that one candidate is a rapist is negative. And is kind of the opposite of support. so thanks for the daily dose of derp, but i'll be passing.

Now of the two of you, which post is more likely to discourage someone from voting at all, let alone Democratic?

Do you think pointing out that mineralman doesn't actually know the meaning of words he's trying to use on Du is going to keep people from voting? That's a really strange claim.

[BainsBane]

15. Same here

Hippie puncher is a charge I hadn't heard before. I am the child of hippies, so I think I should get a pass on that one.

[MineralMan]

20. As a childless old hippie, I thank you.

[mcar]

17. K&R

Well said, as always.

[Dawgs]

24. There is one part that makes no sense to me.

"I like Bernie Sanders very much, but cannot see a path for him to the nomination."

Putting the unelectability of Sanders aside for a moment, how can you possibly see a path for Hillary? Her unfavorables versus favorables are off the charts at this point. She creates almost no enthusiasm when compared to an Obama or Sanders. Independants and Republicans can't stand her. A large percentage of Democrats don't like her at all, including many Millennials that will just stay home.

Bernie, on the other hand, does not have the unfavorable problem, creates a lot of enthusiasm, has some support from Indys/GOP, and Millennials love him. Oh, and he does better against the GOP than Hillary.

Please show me where I'm wrong.

[MineralMan]

26. Clinton has a clear path to the nomination.

Sanders does not.

I'm looking at numbers on this. There are no numbers on enthusiasm, frankly. I'm a poll watcher from way back.

It's not my job to show you where you are wrong. You're entitled to believe anything you can believe. You should vote in the primaries as you choose, it seems to me. Everyone will do that, and we will have a decision. Then, we can begin working on the general election campaigning.

What you choose to do is your decision, of course.

[AlbertCat]

41. Clinton has a clear path to the nomination.

even if it is rigged....


But most important... you'll be with the "in crowd" at her coronation.

[MineralMan]

46. I have no idea what you're talking about.

She came close in 2008. She's running again. I know nothing about any "rigging."

We don't do "coronations" in the US. We have inaugurations after elections.

Finally, I don't do "in crowds." Ever.

[Autumn]

89. She might have won in 2008 if she had not been, in your own words at that other site

"too stupid to be President".

http://forum.darwincentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=13378&p=316141&hilit=MineralMan+Hillary+too+stupid#p316141

[MineralMan]

112. Indeed she might have.

She very stupidly bought up Bobby Kennedy's assassination as a reason for staying in the race. That alone may have cost her the nomination. That was the stupid thing to which I referred. She learned from that, I'm certain.

See what context reveals?

[Autumn]

117. Your posts at that link and at your other place reveal the context. nt

[Dawgs]

68. Fine, but you are the one that said that Sanders doesn't have a clear path.

I would think you should have no problem explaining why. And, what numbers are you looking at?

[zeemike]

101. I think it is because he feels the oligarchs don't want him

Which ties into the authoritarian thing...they always believe in the power of the ruling class.

[BlueCheese]

25. Wait, there are still plenty more options!

Some other things that I've seen around here:

Are you a warmonger?
Do you hate poor people?
A bit of a neo-conservative?
Perhaps you're a corporatist?
Maybe you're low-information?
Could it be you're Republican-lite?
Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?
Or afraid of being on the Clintons' Enemies List (TM)?

C'mon, there's gotta be some reason you're supporting Clinton.

[MineralMan]

28. No, none of those, either.

Sometimes you have to stop when you're making a list. I stopped.

[BlueCheese]

31. Well, I'll keep looking.

There has to be some reason for you to want to support a true-blue Democrat who has spent four decades fighting for liberal causes. We'll figure it out.

[AlbertCat]

42. a true-blue Democrat who has spent four decades fighting for liberal causes.

Like Iraq

and DOMA


not to mention groovy trade deals!

[randys1]

105. You know what is funny? I have been on DU for so long now (as in this election season) and read

so so so much negative shit about Hillary, I hardly recognize the person you refer to.

Is she too cozy with Wall Street? No question, of course she is.

But is she this rightwing warmongering horrid person I hear about here all day every day?

No...thanks for reminding me

[wildeyed]

124. Because you are an old ass school marm

with crotch issues? I combined two insults, but I swear, they happened in the same thread.

I am routinely accused of liking Clinton because I am an old, boring, uptight woman. So old that perhaps I am not quite sharp enough to keep up any more. I can't even..... If they only knew.

[randr]

27. I whole heartedly agree with you

except I will be caucusing/voting for Bernie in the primarys and if he loses will hope to high hell Hillary has a chance.

[MineralMan]

30. I have friends who will be doing the same.

If they generate enough votes, they'll win. I would have no problem supporting Sanders in the general election at all. I don't see a path for him to the nomination, though. Others seem to be able to see that path. Everyone votes as they choose and a winner emerges. Such is politics.

[randr]

36. All that matters is that we hold the WH

[MineralMan]

38. Well, we really need a Senate majority, too.

That should be a very high priority. Neither of my Senators is up for election in 2016, though. Senate races are definitely a state-by-state matter. Not much room for outside influence, really. It's up to people who live in those states to make it happen.

[DFW]

80. If it makes you feel any better

I was on the line with Russ Feingold yesterday. He was looking for contributions (I gave), but I talked with him for a good long while. He sounded upbeat, although all politicians looking for money are sort of required to do that. But I do think he should win any rematch. DFA thinks so, too, and will be involved in his race if they can.

[BlueCheese]

160. You get to talk with Russ Feingold? Cool!

[DFW]

162. He called me!

What was I gonna do, hang up on him?

[randr]

100. Another reason to dump DWS

We need Dean back, or at least someone willing to take the fight to the streets.

[JonLeibowitz]

84. Why would you choose to support a candidate based in any way on a perceived path to the nomination?

Honest question here.

[randys1]

106. I cant speak for the poster but in that comment I think he assumes that if Hillary receives that

much support in the primary season that this makes a good argument for her winning the general.

Maybe not, but for me it is ONLY about a D winning every single possible House, Senate and WH election.

If I have to explain why, then there really is nothing to talk about.

[Agschmid]

29. Kick, and rec.

I am also none of the above, and I'm sick of the assertion that I am.

[MineralMan]

33. The accusations puzzle me, frankly.

I'm more of an analytical type when it comes to primary elections.

[redstateblues]

43. It's amazing how so many Sanders supporters can manage nothing but insults

for those of us who support Hillary. The mindset that we must all fit into one of those little boxes-3rd wayer, coroporatist, etc-
says something about the groupthink that is pervasive among their ranks.

[MineralMan]

47. Well, I'm not sure how many are doing that, really.

I also don't know if they're actually Sanders supporters. I have no way of knowing really, but it's not a good strategy, whatever the case may be.

[randys1]

107. There are some good Bernie folks here, who wont insult you or attack Hillary. But we hear

from the other group, so I understand your concern.

I wonder how in the holy hell can people who so deeply despise and hate Hillary, vote for her in the general?

[NurseJackie]

40. I <3 U

[MineralMan]

48. Aww...

[cali]

49. Lol.

[MineralMan]

50. Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I appreciate the effort you put into it.

[MeNMyVolt]

57. Why do you do this?

You didn't used to be this way.

[Plucketeer]

51. I won't argue with your points

Except for one...... "I like Bernie Sanders very much, but cannot see a path for him to the nomination."

That "path" is thru US - you, me and anyone else that favors him. Clinton's the default "choice". Whether you like her or not, it's what you'll get if Sanders doesn't get the backing from us wee folk. NEVER MORE - has it been that WE have the power to steer this beast. Why not try??? The first few states will tell - and it will be on the backs of those who turn out for him. Clinton will be the default if Bernie doesn't prevail. So why not back the best when the compromise is gonna be there either way???

[MineralMan]

53. Well, I encourage you to give it your best effort.

We shall see.

[Jamaal510]

54. A few of these terms

like "DLCer" and "Hippie Puncher" I hadn't even heard of until I joined here almost 4 years ago. Also I came across another good one a short while ago: "corporate feminism", whatever that is. I never hear people in RL talk like this, not even among my Political Science peers. The sad thing is that these are grown men and women who are speaking like that.

[MineralMan]

55. Me, too. They seem to be strictly DU terms.

I have no idea what "corporate feminism" might be, though. I've seen a couple of threads, but haven't read them.

Feminism is a good thing, though. I'm not sure what corporations have to do with it, though. Puzzling. I guess I'll have to go investigate.

[wildeyed]

121. I googled.

It is a way to shame successful white women for being too successful. And there is def some privilege issues going on there, but I don't need to be lectured about them by random Bernie partisans who give not a single shit about women's rights and are just using the discussion as a way to score points on Hillary Clinton.

I added it to my list of weird things.

And now, so we can end on a high note, I will share one of my fav photos of recent times. Behold Queen Bey who wins at corporate feminism as hard as she wins at everything else.

[wildeyed]

56. I totally wish I had picked Hippie Puncher

as my screen name. Did someone really call you that? That is hilarious. I am actually keeping list of weird insults I have seen flung at Clinton supporters just because some of them are so amusing.

Honestly, I mostly just point and laugh these days. Most of what is being posted is bad rhetoric, conspiracy theories and personal attacks designed to generate as much attention as possible. Silly, silly stuff....



I totally agree with this statement:

I believe that people should vote for the candidate they prefer in the primaries. That's how our system works. In the general election, I believe we have a binary choice and that every Democratic vote is essential, so I encourage people to vote for the Democratic nominee.

[MineralMan]

58. It's kind of a general term to be used whenever

someone isn't 100% in line with a certain point of view. I think I first encountered it with reference to the OWS movement and also with marijuana issues.

It's a funny name to call someone, especially an old hippie. Makes me chuckle softly.

[wildeyed]

64. I'm an aging punk.

GenX, I guess. Hippie Puncher would be PERFECT..... We HATED hippies Actually not really, we were just sick of the Grateful Dead, mostly.

Let me know if you get any other good ones so I can add them to the list

[randys1]

108. LOL oh God, my friend the drummer from a Sac'to Band, THE FEATURES (70's/80's)

liked to come into the room when his brother and I were listening to the DEAD and mock an assassination of everyone in the room with a machine gun

[wildeyed]

118. One of my best friends in HS LOOOOVED

the Dead. Wildly intelligent, creative guy who was so fun and interesting most of the time and then he would put on music and it would be that f'ing space jam crap

[Persondem]

59. Nice post. Very sensisble and shows the wisdom of experience. K & R nt

[Bluenorthwest]

61. After all your claimed regret and apology you continue to be very kind to yourself regarding FR.

Because you told us all about it here on DU, many of us know exactly what it delved into and how vile that was. You claimed to have repented, but this sort of self serving language indicates a very low level of honesty about what you said on FR, and who you said it about.

I want you to know that in essence that sort of thing is why I am not supporting Hillary in the primary, nor the political culture around her. She also seeks to frame past errors in a rosy light, even at cost of actual good will with other communities. Instead of direct, honest and on the table it is parsed, framed, and presented as if the victim was the one doing the self serving spin.

All I see in this OP is you heaping icing on your own cake when you could be putting your real cards on the table. We have already seen those cards, MM. They could all be forgotten if you did not keep doing this rewrite in favor of yourself routine. It is the same, exact thing Hillary recently did with DOMA, she dragged it up and tried to spin it in Bill's favor, when there was no need to bring it up at all. She wanted to heap the icing on that cake. So it does seem to be a cultural thing in center right of the Party. I'm not into that level of bull puckey.

[ymetca]

62. My vote for Bernie

while likely being completely futile in the blood-red state in which I live, will be based primarily on this:

Larry Summers Lectures Bernie Sanders on Financial and Monetary Policy

It's not about seeing a path to the nomination. My pointless vote in this faux democracy has never really mattered anyway. Especially since everyone votes for the "most likely to succeed", or doesn't vote at all. The so-called "protest vote" is all we really have left.

You just don't get it, IMHO.

[Maedhros]

63. You are also, intentionally or not, supporting these entities and their agendas:

Morgan and Morgan
Corning Inc.
DISH Network
DLA Piper
Sullivan and Cromwell
Time Warner
Akin, Gump et al.
Morgan Stanley
Alphabet Inc.
Latham & Watkins
JP Morgan Chase & Co.
Bank of America

They want Hillary to be President, and you are helping them.

[Loudestlib]

65. Feel the burn

I'm voting for Bernie because he's the better candidate.

[harris8]

67. so the only reason you support Hillary is:

"... cannot see a path for him (Bernie) to the nomination."

How sad for you.

[Laser102]

70. K&R! Happy to hear it.

[SmittynMo]

71. But cannot see a path for him to the nomination?

Yeah, that's a real reason to not vote for him.

No offense, but I don't fall for this bullshit.

And then all your reasons? Wow. Just because you're not a oligarch, a 1%er, etc, that makes perfect sense to vote for one.

Wow. I don't get why you posted this?

[George II]

73. Excellent post and summary of the insults throw Clinton supporters' way.

Anecdotally, if somehow Sanders is elected President, with his Presidential salary he will instantly become a member of the 1%!

[RufusTFirefly]

90. Sorry, but a presidential salary will NOT make you part of the One Percent

Bzzzt! Thanks for playing!

You might be surprised to learn that the top 20 percent of income earners bring in a household income of just over $100,000. The top 10 percent of earners have a household income of more than $148,687. To be considered in the top 1 percent, household income is at least $521,411.

Source: http://www.usfunds.com/investor-library/frank-talk/what-does-it-take-to-be-in-the-top-1-percent-not-as-much-as-you-think

The President is paid a salary of $400,000

To be part of the One Percent, President Sanders would have to supplement his income with speeches to Goldman Sachs.

[George II]

97. You should check the US Census Bureau website - according to them a household income.....

....of roughly $250,000 or more is in the top 1%. And this site puts that salary of $400,000 in the top 1%:

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/

[Rebkeh]

75. I would never call anyone any of those things based

solely on their support of a political candidate. I will say, however, the only reasons, as far as I can tell, for any progressive or liberal to choose your candidate are two: aversion to risk/change or pure denial. In either case, I think everyone has a right to vote (or not vote at all) for whomever they wish.

The Bernie supporters that called you those things are not the norm. Don't let them represent Bernie himself because they don't.

[bvar22]

77. Thanks for your list of what you are not.

Since you have come out as a Hillary supporter ( a surprise to everyone I'm sure),
here is another list for you:

15 Fundamental Differences Between Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, and The Republicans:

1. Sanders has served as an elected official for over 34 years. Clinton & most Republicans have not.

2. Sanders has supported gay rights since 40 years ago. Clinton and Republicans have not.

3. Sanders wants to end the prohibition of marijuana. Clinton & The Republicans do not.

4. Sanders wants to end the death penalty. Clinton and Th Republicans do not.

5. Sanders wants to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

6. Sanders wants to break up the biggest banks. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

7. Sanders voted against the Wall Street bailout. Clinton and the Republicans (and too many "Democrats) did not.

8. Sanders introduced legislation to overturn Citizens United. Clinton and The Republicans did not.

9. Sanders refuses to accept money from super PACs. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

10. Sanders supports a single-payer healthcare system. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

11. Sanders refrains from waging personal attacks for political gains. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

12. Sanders considers climate change our nation's biggest threat. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

13. Sanders opposed the Keystone XL Pipeline since day one. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

14. Sanders voted against the Patriot Act. Clinton and the Republicans did not.

15. Sanders voted against the war in Iraq. Clinton and The Republicans did not.


Hillary sure seems to agree with Republicans a lot.
I don't,
that is why I am a Democrat, and voting for a Democrat....Bernie!

[Buzz Clik]

82. Nice diversion. SQUIRREL!

[bvar22]

111. I alerted on your post.

"The use of "squirrel", especially the way YOU used it is an insult with homophobic overtones.
Try this:
Use logic and debate instead of insults and one liners....if you are capable of such.

[B Calm]

113. What were the results?

[Whiskeytide]

115. Results...

On Wed Dec 30, 2015, 06:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Nice diversion. SQUIRREL!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=960752

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The use of "squirrel" in the way the poster used it is a common insult, with homophobic overtones.
It is not appropriate for DU.
The poster would be far better off using logic and debate instead of Name Calling.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Dec 30, 2015, 06:43 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster isn't calling anyone named, they are referring to a popular internet meme. Not homophobic in any way.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Don't see any homophobic overtones!
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The post doesn't meet the criteria for hiding it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "Squirrel" - in this context - means a diversion from the topic at hand. It's an old comedic reference made more mainstream by the talking dog in the animated movie "Up". I suppose it's a little insulting since it implies a lack of focus (or in this case an intentional distraction), but it's having homophobic overtones is a new one on me. I'm confident the poster didn't mean it in a homophobic way given the context.

Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[bvar22]

116. 4-3 to keep.

"Squirrel" was a common insult back in the 50s & 60s where I grew up.
It was used as commonly as "fruit" "queer" "mouse" and other such terms.
It is also a euphemism for coward in the military,
or an ineffective and cowardly worker on an offshore rig.
(Squirrels did not come back again.)
I have no knowledge of where calling an adult male a "SQUIRREL" is NOT an insult.

"Squirrelly" also means incompetent and untrustworthy.

Squirrels are commonly refereed to as "rats with fuzzy tails.".
In High School "shooting the squirrel" means looking up a girl's skirt hoping to see panties or public hair,
and later discussions among the boys were over seeing the "squirrel".

It was obviously used as an Insult in the context, with all capitals.
He SHOUTED it.

If he does it again, I will alert again, and hope for a more educated jury,
or hope he calls me a "SQUIRREL" in person.

[Whiskeytide]

119. Wow. Now I'm insulted.

I was one of the uneductaed, unedukat, uneducaat ... the not smart ones.

Sorry - couldn't resist.

I genuinely do think you took the reference wrong. Whatever it may have meant in the past where you grew up, it's current use is much more likely to mean a "distraction" - just as the poster stated in his post.

[msanthrope]

125. Dude....Dug is NOT homophobic.....know your memes....

http://m.

&itct=CBwQpDAYACITCNuVzbKBhcoCFRfQvgodppsA1jIHcmVsYXRlZEi41tub8-vFkkk%3D

[wildeyed]

126. No, it is a joke about ADHD and distractions now.

[Buzz Clik]

120. You decided it was homophobic? Last time it had racist overtones.

I think you just hate squirrels.

[yardwork]

149. Squirrel is a homophobic insult? Really?

Do tell.

[sufrommich]

164. Seriously?? It's a reference to the Disney movie Up.

[uponit7771]

166. wow!!! Really!? The term is also from the movie UP... wow come on man!!

[dlwickham]

128. and yet Sanders has accepted money from a Super PAC

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/23/politics/bernie-sanders-super-pac-nurses/index.html

Bernie Sanders declined to disavow a super PAC spending money on his behalf in an interview with CNN on Monday and contradicted a statement his campaign made about the political entities he has long spoken out against.

Sanders drew a distinction between National Nurses United For Patient Protection, a super PAC that has spent at least $569,000 backing him, and those super PACs backing other candidates during an interview with CNN's Brooke Baldwin.

"What I have said over and over again is that I have not and will not raise a nickel for a super PAC," Sanders said. "I am the only Democratic candidate who does not have a super PAC. I will not have a super PAC. They are nurses and they are fighting for the health care of their people. They are doing what they think is appropriate. I do not have a super PAC."

[Android3.14]

78. Look, a duck!

[humbled_opinion]

79. There will be no meaningful change

with your nuanced shades of gray...I get you are not a lot of things but those not's do make you something.... Sadly your mistake will hurt us all, I can only hope that once you are in the voting booth, and knowing what you know you will follow your conscious and make the right decision.... Only one of our candidates is under FBI investigation wouldn't you feel terrible letting Bernie Sanders slip by only to have Hillary get indicted shortly after the primaries are over?

[redstateblues]

114. It's another manufactured "scandal" however if your fantasy

came true it would probably lead to a brokered convention and a Democrat would most likely be the nominee. Maybe Warren. If Hillary was out my second choice would be O'Malley. I don't think Bernie has a chance in the GE although if by some miracle he was the nominee he would be my third choice.

[humbled_opinion]

133. Manufactured or real makes no difference

The taint is on her, now we are going to get a rehashing of all Bill's manufactured and real abuses of women, as his wife somehow claims the high ground on how she is helping women? Having a candidate that does not draw enthusiasm in the electorate stands very little chance of getting elected.... How is she drawing enthusiasm? Vote for me because Donald Trump is nuts? That will only work in our 33.3 percent of the electorate, the squishy middle will need convincing and her message is simply not convincing.... I will save my "I told you so's" but I truly feel that enough people will make their final decision on election day, so polls mean nothing at all..

[Buzz Clik]

81. EXCELLENT! +1

[Android3.14]

86. It's actually about ethics, courage and intelligence

A trustworthy person must have the courage to stand for his or her ethics in order to use their intelligence to pursue the goals that match their values.

There's one label you should probably add to your list.

Sad.

[cindyperry]

87. Ty

Just vote

[DhhD]

88. Senators from New York are supporting Sanders. no text

[Jack Rabbit]

141. Reminder

Politicians in or from New York have more constituents who are victims of Wall Street fraud than are actual Wall Street bankers. It's nice to know that some of those politicians represent their broader constituency than others.

[liberalnarb]

91. I agree.

As Bernie supporter and a (democratic) socialist, you and I probably have some fundamental differences in what we believe. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never called Hillary or her supporters freepers of all things. Not that you are, but a certain number of DUers are third wayers and openly so. But you can be sure that if Hillary is our nominee, she can count on me to have her back then. I vote for Democrats. We all want what's best for our country and our party.

[awoke_in_2003]

92. Damn hippie puncher...

Just kidding, Mineral. I support Bernie, but respect your thoughts. Whoever wins is going to need all of us. The thought of a President Trump is not a good one.

[w0nderer]

93. I don't neccessarily support HRC

but i respect your opinion and reasons

Thank you Sir
and a Happy New Year to you


very well thought out post, as usual, thanks

[w0nderer]

94. and how to know you are a respected 'ole timer'

when people from all sides pipe up to support you

[RoccoR5955]

95. Oh, so you are a lackey then! n/t

[lewebley3]

98. You are just a Sanders Hillary brasher: you have drunk the Sander propaganda

[fbc]

99. Would "supporter of Oligarchy" work for you?

You support a candidate that would further our move towards Oligarchy, so how's that?

[gordyfl]

102. True...

Not everyone who voted for Mitt Romney belonged to the 1%, or had bank accounts in the Cayman Islands.

Yet, he won nearly half the votes cast. Go figure.

[oasis]

103. GD-P OP of the Week.

[KingCharlemagne]

110. I disagree on whom I support, but I'm still recommending this piece. The only caveat I might offer

is this:

You say you cannot see a path for Sanders to win the nomination. In similar fashion, I cannot see a path whereby Hillary wins the GE. So, using your logic, tactical and strategic considerations should compel my vote for Sanders, my own ideological preferences notwithstanding.

Perhaps this is matter for another thread, eh?

Good job defending your position and rebuting some of your erstwhile critics.

[dlwickham]

127. I guess I'm the only oligarch on here

it's lonely

[SCantiGOP]

129. No

I'm an oligarch wannabe.

[dlwickham]

131. we should get buttons made

that say that

maybe t-shirts; I can always use more t-shirts

[AndreaCG]

132. The crap you describe is why I seldom read DU now

I prefer Daily Kos which is much less contentious. Not that there's no arguments, but fewer and not so freaking NASTY.

[rhett o rick]

134. I haven't called you any names but am mystified why you would support the candidate that

is supported by the wealthy 1% whose greed has brought us 50,000,000 Americans living in poverty. You do realize that the oligarchy doesn't care about us.

On edit: I recommend you read "The Authoritarian Personality" by Eric Fromm https://www.marxists.org/archive/fromm/works/1957/authoritarian.htm Most authoritarians yield to authority.

[Logical]

135. Great post! Nt

[SixString]

136. " I've also been called a troll, a liberal, a DUer, and much, much worse. I'm none of those things."

This sounds like your freerepublic exit speech.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2705446

[Romulox]

142. Nice catch. nt

[billhicks76]

140. Nice Try

Fail

[NorthCarolina]

143. You can't necessarily dismiss being a "right winger" by claiming to be a "democrat"

Take folks like the Clintons, Rahm Emmanuel, DWS, Claire McCaskill, Joe Manchin, Heidi Heitkamp, Joe Donnelly, Angus King, Jon Tester, Ed Rendell...and others, ALL whose political views are verifiably far to the right of the general voting public on many, many issues, and yet they all claim the mantle of "Democrat". Your premise for your justification example is flawed.

[MineralMan]

144. Actually, yes I can, and I did in the OP.

You simply disagree.

Seeya...

[aikoaiko]

145. As you've said before, you're voting for HRC because you don't like Bernie supporters.

[MineralMan]

146. Actually, that is not what I said.

I said that some supporters are hurting his campaign badly by insulting people. That says to me that many people will reject the candidate based on those supporters.

I like Bernie Sanders very, very much. I do not think he can win in the general election and do not believe he has any real chance of becoming the nominee.

I want a democrat in the White House, so I'm supporting the candidate who has the best chance of becoming that President.

You will believe whatever you wish to believe about me and about this primary election. That's of no concern to me.

[PyaarRevolution]

147. Numbers.

I should be honest in starting out and admit my bias, that being I believe Hillary is a Corporatist.

Please explain to me why you think Bernie can't win the general election, give me numbers and links. I don't care if it's to a giant spreadsheet as I believe a lot of people here will do the work and either come to the same conclusion or respectfully disagree with you.
I live in Kansas, a state that the DNC has given up on making in-roads, that we have a chance to change for the better, from the ground up. I believe that Kansas and some other red states have the possibility to become swing states in the general election if Bernie wins the nomination given his background. He has an opportunity, coming from a rural state with its stance on gun control among other issues, to open people and states up that Republicans have had a lock on after FDR and LBJ. Please don't dismiss this ability offhand.

I would couple this with the way Bernie speaks, the issues he brings up, likely the very cadence of his words. His Charisma as well as his message energizes people on both ends, logic and emotion. I remember hearing about a study or article on brain chemistry between Republicans/Conservatives and Democrats/Liberals. They found the emotional center tended to light up more with the Conservatives as opposed to the Liberals/Democrats which was more logic based(apologies if I'm oversimplifying it more than a bit). Bernie lights up both of those centers I believe and Hillary does not, at least to the extent Bernie does in my opinion. I would add that I think if Trump doesn't get the nomination he will also get some of those disenfranchised, older unemployed White men. Bernie has the ability to open some of their eyes. Oh and please link to the brain article if there are any assertions I should correct, if I'm oversimplifying the article's point.

If Bernie doesn't win there will be people who scatter to the wind because of all the Corporatist ties Hillary has, especially in regards to TPP and her lukewarm rejection(she phrased her rejection of it with a loophole so to speak). I would assert they need to be engaged regardless and apply that energy to their local/state elections and the school board. Republicans build from the ground up and we need to do the same if we want it to last. After all, I think most of us believe in long term vs. short term gains. Presenting this behavior over at least 2 Senate election cycles would help us tremendously.

Well I think I've put up some valid points for discussion.

p.s. For those who don't think Bernie can win in Kansas I direct you to the questionable results Sam Brownback's recent re-election. There are questions about the authenticity of the win and whether voting machine fraud was committed. Keep in mind many moderate Republicans here threw their support to the Democrat.

[aikoaiko]

148. Ok, let me quote you since we seem to have different recollections.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251507197

Recent attacks on people who insist that attention be paid to the wholesale killing of unarmed black people by official government law enforcement officers has convinced me that my support for Bernie Sanders in the primaries was misplaced. When I align myself with a candidate and pledge support for that candidate, I am aligning myself with that candidate's supporters.

I can no longer do that in good faith. Due to actions by supporters of Senator Sanders, I am withdrawing my support for him at our caucuses in Minnesota. I cannot be aligned any longer with his supporters, which has cost that candidate my own support. His insistence that economic changes will produce the kind of social change that is so much needed no longer can be supported, either.

Perhaps he will change that line of thinking, and perhaps not. He appears to be convinced of it. Yes, he has supported civil rights issues throughout his career, but his current campaign focuses too much on economics and not enough on redressing the real and continuing racial inequality in the United States. Both are critically important, and focusing only on one will not result in the changes that are desperately needed.

Some will, no doubt, say that I never actually supported Sanders in the first place. They are incorrect. I know my own heart and mind. Nobody else does. So, I will ignore such comments.

Candidates are known by many through the actions of their supporters. That can be very beneficial for the candidate or very harmful. Certain actions by supporters of Senator Sanders, whose politics in general are well-aligned with my own, have represented the candidate very poorly, and I see no tendency for them to change. Those supporters may well poison his campaign and cause the rejection of a broad base of support by PoC. Without that support, he cannot win the Presidency, and it is crucial that we elect a Democratic President in 2016.

As of now, I will be supporting Hillary Clinton to become the Democratic nominee for President. I believe she will be the nominee, and think that Bernie Sanders has reached his peak of support by the general Democratic voting public. What a shame! Hillary Clinton has and will continue to have broad support from all segments of our society. That support is absolutely critical. Loss of any sector of support will lead to a Republican as President. The Sanders campaign is too narrow and focused on only part of the change needed. Sanders supporters are making enemies, not friends. That simply will not work, and I will not support it.

[Autumn]

167. Boom there it is!

[Warren DeMontague]

150. Good. I support Sanders, and I'm not a racist, a misogynist, a klan member, a volvo driver,

a purple shirt-wearing "bro", a mac user, a Rand Paul lover, a pony wanter, a Hugo Chavez lover, a Hillary hater, nor am I "white trash", despite having supposedly esteemed members of this website refer to Sanders supporters as all of those things over the past several months.

[liberal N proud]

151. K&R

[DinahMoeHum]

152. MM, even though I support Bernie Sanders for the primary. . .

. . .I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is come the general election in November 2016. Whether it's Bernie or Hillary or someone else.

My philospophy is: vote progressive in the primary, vote Democrat in the general election.

And AFAIC, a pox on anybody here on DU who either refuses to vote in the general election or who throws away their vote on a write-in, third-party or vanity candidate; acting like a spoiled brat and a crybaby because their favorite candidate didn't win the primary or because the eventual Democratic nominee doesn't meet their oh-so-perfectly precious political standards. If they want to screw themselves, that's one thing; problem is, their attitude hurts every other voter pulling the lever for the Democratic nominee.

Let's remember, the voting machine does NOT record who you vote against, only who you vote for. Ask the voters in the state of Maine, who are stuck with a troglodyte for a governor because his opposition split their votes between 2 candidates.

[MineralMan]

153. I think your position is very sensible.

My vote will not decide who is the nominee. I'll be voting for the nominee. I'll be walking my precinct, doin everything I can to get people too the polls to do the same. I have a larger goal in mind, and that is electing Democrats to as m a ny offices as possible. That is what will make a difference. That is what we need. Either presidential candidate will move us forward. I just think that Clinton will be more likely to win.

[BlueCheese]

154. Honestly, the relentless over-the-top criticism coming from some Sanders supporters...

... has really had the effect of pushing me away from Sanders.

I know the most vociferous ones probably aren't representative, and it's not the most rational thing for me to drift away from Sanders because of a vocal minority of his supporters, but you can't help what you feel, and that's the effect it's having on me.

When every single person or organization who endorses Clinton-- whether it's John Lewis, Wendy Davis, Sherrod Brown, Lena Dunham, Samuel L. Jackson, AFSCME, SEIU, the League of Conservation Voters, etc. etc.-- gets shredded and accused of being corrupt, you have to wonder a bit.

When people like Elizabeth Warren and Paul Krugman-- highly respected liberals-- get torn apart for simply supporting some of what Clinton says, you have to wonder a bit.

When conspiracy theories premised on the belief that Hillary Clinton is evil get hundreds of recs despite having no evidence, you have to wonder a bit.

It's like it's impossible for these turbo-supporters to believe that a reasonable person could vote for anyone besides Bernie Sanders. And it makes me pause to think if this is really where I want to belong.

[MineralMan]

155. DU is not in any way representative of

voters in the US. What is written here has virtually no impact beyond this website. People will vote based on whatever factors they choose o rose. DU is an interesting place to discuss politic, but that's all it is.

[BlueCheese]

156. Oh, I agree.

Of course, it's not just DU. God help the Facebook and Twitter pages of any public figure who endorses Clinton.

I'm willing to believe that those aren't really representative either. But for those of us who enjoy talking about politics, it gets a little wearying to repeatedly see all of this.

I wish I had the strength to stop reading political news and forums. It's no longer very educational, and only serves to bother me on most days now. Maybe it will be better once the primaries are over and we're on the same team again.

[MineralMan]

157. What those people posting on such places

don't realize is that the followers of those endorsers like those endorsers. Berrnie fans who do that kind of attack do their candidate a great disservice. That are hurting his chances, not helping him.

That is why I shifted my support to Clinton. I think Sanders has almost no chance at the nomination, so I'm going with the probable winner. I do very little in presidential primaries anyhow. My focus is legislative at this stage.

[PyaarRevolution]

158. In terms of endorsements.

Some support Hillary with full knowledge on her stances while I believe some are not fully informed yet support her. Regarding the latter concern I feel this issue is more common with Hillary supporters, excepting diehards.
When it comes to Bernie you have to go out of your way to find out about him and usually the articles tend to contain pertinent information about his stance(how many times has the media asked him about what a socialist is? It's a constant question). So usually if you support Bernie you know what you're getting into.
Conversely, with Hillary, I don't know how ANY union can support Hillary with how she's been in the tank for TPP. Yes, she rejected it finally but it was NOT a firm rejection.

As for the supporters who are overly aggressive and offputting in their demeanor, it's possibly a combination of things or one thing. Bitterness may be a primary driver, constantly having your concerns or issues ignored by your representatives in Congress can engender that feeling. Another is anger as a defense mechanism. If you're constantly being attacked(patronized et other things) you're much more likely to lash out. I'm not saying you should forgive them but at least try to understand it. Don't assume all Sanders fans are like that and possibly reconsider. Remember what erosion can create and how coal becomes a diamond.

[BlueCheese]

159. Those are great points.

It would also be grossly unfair for me to say that Clinton, or any other candidate doesn't have the same share of overly enthusiastic supporters who get a little too zealous at times. And who's to say that I don't get a little heated myself sometimes?

I should emphasize and repeat to myself that the large majority of Sanders supporters are very good people who want the same things that most liberals do. Thanks for the reminder and happy new year!

[PyaarRevolution]

161. Wanted to add one thing I forgot.

No offense to these celebrities but a lot of them are in a bubble. These people run in some of the same circles as Barbara Bush(NOT saying they're Republican, just rich), Barbara Boxer, DWS and others. Chances are most of them may like Hillary because they're running in the same $25K a plate dinner groups.
How often have you seen Bernie holding these events? Almost never with the one time it was a DNC fundraiser and that was likely due to enormous pressure from them. The max amount Bernie's campaign will take from one individual is $5500.
So in saying this let me be clear, get Ari Emmanuel, David Geffen, Jeffrey Katzenburg and others outside of their comfort zone. After this have them talk to the average person on the ground. They may change their support to Bernie in the process, especially if they hear from a few Bernie supporters.

p.s. Do the plate dinners even serve USDA certified Organic food? If I spent $25K on a plate I'd want it to be Organic.

[ismnotwasm]

165. K&R