2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary supporter's new meme: Evolution in thinking is impossible
At least that's what you'd think reading all the posts complaining about Bernie trying to change the minds of Trump supporters.
The cognitive dissonance is strong at Camp Weathervane.
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Blue_Adept
(6,400 posts)So if she can't evolve, why can others?
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Bernie is just more authentic and more deserving of TRUST than Trump in working on behalf of the disenfranchised.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)The bottom line is that Sanders hit the ceiling in support from Democrats, mounted an unsuccessful assault to dismantle the Democratic Party using a dirty political trick, and is now retreading The Southern Strategy. Principled? I think not.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)I saw a thread earlier posted by Empowerer which very clearly laid out why the Bernie Southern Strategy is a very poor/bad idea all around.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)of those who seek to justify dogwhistling to racists.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)Trump uses the dogwhistle. Bernie hasn't. He is attempting to appeal in other ways. Prove or retract.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Our GOP(D) clan here just spam flasehoods ,hate, and right wing ideas all over this site and hope some of it sticks with those not familiar with the poster.
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)I can tolerate all sorts of opinions; however, when their argument is debunked or their 'fact' can't be substantiated, own it. Otherwise, it is all the things you say they are, and worse.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)dogs, fire hoses and shit like that, they would have more respect than to use it to make a stupid point. Dog whistles and southern strategy by bernie? Bullshit.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...please cite an example, just one, where Sanders has done that?
We all know about Clinton's 2008 dogwhistling to racists though. Go ahead, ask me to cite examples. I'm ready.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...and no example, so I guess we can all assume you got nothin'...
No surprise but worth pointing out.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/05/bernie-sanders-michael-froman-tpp_n_6419874.html
Not just this article, but the letter to Froman, the Twitter gifs, the speeches, rallies, and interviews, all questioning Obama's honesty and credentials in strongly emotionalzed terms. THAT is what is meant by dogwhistling.
pa28
(6,145 posts)It seems to me you've gone too far in that analysis but maybe I'm wrong. Could explain in more detail to help us understand what you mean by that?
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...and your link does not support your argument at all. First of all, the article itself does not allude to anything like racial dog whistling. It does say the letter (about the TPP) is "brutal", and it goes on to discuss the Presidential race that is shaping up. Personally I thought that "brutal" was an overstatement, but that's just me.
You seem to be mistaking political hardball with dog whistles. Nowhere in the letter to Froman is there any questioning of Obama's honesty nor his credentials (and even there were, that would not be the same thing as a dog whistle). Sanders is strongly disagreeing with the President on a policy matter, and he is pulling no punches. Again: that is NOT the same as dog whistling.
I will leave it to others to peruse the letter to Froman and judge for themselves whether it contains any "dog whistles". Here is the full text of the letter to Michael Froman:
The Honorable Michael Froman
United States Trade Representative
6007 17th Street, NW
Washington, DC 20508
Dear Ambassador Froman:
Very early this year, the Senate may vote on legislation that would grant the President fast track trade negotiating authority. If this legislation is signed into law, it could pave the way for the passage of the Trans-Pacific Partnership Free Trade Agreement (TPP) with limited debate and no opportunities for amendments.
As you know, the TPP is poised to be the largest free trade agreement in history encompassing 12 nations that account for nearly 40 percent of the global economy. I have been very concerned that up to this date the text of this agreement has not been made public. The only text I am aware of that has been made public so far has been through leaked documents, and I find what I read to be very troubling.
It is incomprehensible to me that the leaders of major corporate interests who stand to gain enormous financial benefits from this agreement are actively involved in the writing of the TPP while, at the same time, the elected officials of this country, representing the American people, have little or no knowledge as to what is in it.
Members of Congress and their staff must have the opportunity to read what is in the TPP and closely analyze the potential impact this free trade agreement would have on the American people long before the Senate votes to give the President fast track trade promotion autnhority.
The TPP is not just another free trade agreement. It has broad economic and political implications for the entire economy, national sovereignty, healthcare, the environment, national security, and the Federal budget, among many other issues. It goes without saying that the American people and their elected officials have a right to know what is in this agreement before fast track is voted on.
Therefore, I am requesting a copy of the full composite bracketed text, withoutredactions, of the TPP. I would also request that staff, and experts of my choosing be allowed access to this copy so that they can read the text, take notes, and analyze the relevant statutory and economic implications of this agreement.
Please letme know if this would be possible no later than Friday, January 16, 2015.
If you cannot fulfill this request, please explain in your reply:
- The statutory prohibition or internal guidelines which prevent you from sharing this information with a member of Congress, staff, outside experts, or the American people
Please also explain why you think it is appropriate that the representatives of the largest financialinstitutions, pharmaceutical companies, oil companies, media conglomerates, and other major corporate interests not only have access to some of these documents but are also playing a major role in developing many of the key provisions in it. Meanwhile, the people who will suffer the consequences of this treaty have been shut out of this process. In my view, this is simply unacceptable.
As you well know, the Constitution of the United States gives Congress the "authority to regulate commerce with foreign nations." That is not my language. That is the Constitution of the United States of America.
Let me be very clear. If you choose not to release this information, I will beworking with my colleagues in the Senate on legislation to require that the entire content of any trade agreement being negotiated be made public at the request of any Member of Contress. And, I for one, willcertainly make that request.
I look forward to hearing from you in the very near future.
Sincerely,
Bernard Sanders
United States Senator
Next?
but you did not refute it, only labelled it "lame."
Vattel
(9,289 posts)You should take a shower or something. You are covered in slime.
Really rolling in it there.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...just a few posts later, saying that Sanders had used racist dogwhistling. This from someone who supports Clinton, who really did use racist dogwhistling in the 2008 campaign.
Much like Republicans like to project their own faults and bad motives onto others.
Absolutely disgusting.
treestar
(82,383 posts)you've simply labeled.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)The Southern strategy was an attempt by the Republicans to appeal to racism against African Americans to build electoral support. There is no evidence at all that Sanders is trying to appeal to racism against African Americans to build his support.
And there is no evidence at all that Sanders has tried to use a political trick to dismantle the Democratic Party.
These slanders are so stupid that they really shouldn't have to be refuted.
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)Very sad.
Face palm smilie... if we had one.
It astounds me how a person can be so misinformed.
Ah, we do have one. 
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)
George II
(67,782 posts)....these two curves/campaigns are going in opposite directions:
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Lying is the domain of human garbage, of Republicans. We should be better than that.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Good luck!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Good luck in your effort to reach out to these people:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/11/22/video_trump_supporters_beat_up_black_lives_matter_protester_at_rally.html
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Supporter Tells U.S. Citizen Jorge Ramos To ‘Get Out Of My Country’
http://thinkprogress.org/immigration/2015/08/26/3695602/trump-supporter-jorge-ramos/
Scuba
(53,475 posts)You are the one claiming they all are.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Good luck! You're gonna need it!
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/08/trump-supporters-think-obama-is-a-muslim-born-in-another-country.html
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)So....how many of these people have you converted so far?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/12/15/supporter_yells_sieg_heil_toward_black_protester_at_trump_rally.html
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)I wonder how many have converted to SBS? Seriously they should speak up right now and give the rest of the Sanders supporters some encouragement, that this a viable strategy in getting Bernie some extra votes.
I must say though, that this attempt at bolstering the Bernie voter rolls is a clear indication that the poor polling numbers actually do mean something and the 50 states winning strategy isn't quite as realistic as previously portrayed.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... and educate yourself.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)
Cha
(297,513 posts)you think they'll find enough?
I can't wait to hear of all the fans of fascist trump they've converted.. like the Liberty U students.. they get any of those?
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)
Scuba
(53,475 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)You've got a month, good luck!
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Many Republicans are disillusioned on some things, like making $7 an hour and such. It isn't hard to appeal to that subset. They have to feed their kids and pay rent like everybody else.
As I have told Hillary supporters a hundred times, watch Sanders speech to Liberty University, where he lays out his plans FROM THE LEFT and how their belief system is anathema to their own situations. Watching that speech shows just how he appeals to them. 4/5 of the audience in the speech is mortified by what he is saying. The rest of them could fairly easily be swayed into voting for him.
It's a brilliant speech and his level of tact is simply stunning, but her supporters refuse to view it because it goes against their memes and talking points.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 29, 2015, 11:35 AM - Edit history (1)
they made around BLM and it is telling that the lesson has not been learned. Mumbling the right words don't make a difference when the basis for schisms in society are not understood. No amount of applying the economic policy hammer will evolve someone who hates others because they exist in a skin of a different color or doesn't duplicate their own culture. These people exist in this society and in reasonable numbers to hold us all back. They are not necessarily working poor but all have in common the badge of white privilege which they wear with pride. I think you are overly optimistic about who shows up to vote for him from the right. Do you have to ever personally live with the affronts from this type of individual? Are you personally in a position to have your life or livelihood threatened or need to worry about family members being assaulted by those who would be willing to see them harmed rather than viewed as an equal. Did the problems President Obama, in the highest office of the land, suffer at the hands of these people not register with you at all?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He is laying out a specific vision, and that vision has wide appeal.
He is laying out that vision FROM THE LEFT. I work with several Republicans who grudgingly admit that Sanders is right on several key issues that negatively affect them and their families.
The Rest of the Republicans that I work with are hopeless cases.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and don't give a damn about how much they make - they simply claim they are hard working. They are temporarily embarrassed millionaires. They do NOT want any of their non-existent taxes to go to help any nonwhite people. They don't want the real millionaires taxes to help nonwhite people - they'd rather the millionaires have it - and they are going to be millionaires one day.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Sanders has no appeal to the wealthy, they see him as a threat to their cash cow.
Hillary is the candidate of the white oligarchy.
treestar
(82,383 posts)He is trying to appeal to right wing working class people.
Your comment about Hillary has no polling backup.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)His message has wide appeal across many demographics. He doesn't need to change anything. His core message is rooted in simple, undeniable truths.
He doesn't need to evolve. Right wing working class people who decide to vote for him must evolve TO THE LEFT in order to crossover to vote Sanders.
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)When Hillary evolves, some see it as good. When Bernie tries to get some Trump supporters to evolve, the same people see it as bad.
Some Trump supporters are probably enthusiastic about him. Many are probably amused by him and know that liking him in a phone poll is not the same as pulling the lever. Trump is running at 39%. His support among many of them is tenuous at best. He is running as an outsider and doing well among Republicans.
Is every single Trump supporter unreachable? Is the brainwashing so complete that they are all lost causes? If they were devout Republicans, then an outsider like Trump wouldn't be polling so well against the other staunch party guys.
The 50 state strategy was a good idea. Those who rejected it are more than happy to have the resulting converts to the Democratic party. Same idea at play here.
This whole 'Bernie's Bad for trying to appeal to Trump voters' thing does boggle the mind. To paraphrase what I've read, ' We don't want Trump's bigots to consider any alternative - we just want them to go on living in their pathetic bubble and voting for the opposition.'
I've spoken to many Bernie supporters who are opposed to the rightward lurch the party has taken over the past many years. Its odd that those who support the candidate representing that lurch to the right are opposed to courting some just a bit further to the right. Its like a 'we've gone this far, but not a step further.'
Last I checked, Democrats were the Big Tent. If its big enough for some converts, it should be big enough for even more.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)But when actual Republicans find appeal in certain of Sanders Left Wing positions, they cry "tea party" and "John Bircher".
The disconnect is puzzling. The partisans are hopeless, IMHO.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Clinton supporters understand that Sanders maxed out support on the left about two months ago. This is simply the next logical step. Sanders is a politician first and foremost. The only career politician running in the Dem Primary. He knows that a vote is a vote.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)But some highly disillusioned individuals from the right are evolving toward certain of his LEFT WING positions.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Trump supporters are evolving to the left. Outright racists, bigots, and sexists. Man this is a fast moving campaign. Lol
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Believe it or not, some Republicans have families and are sick of making $7 per hour. But keep telling yourself every Republican is a Tea Partier or John Bircher if it makes you feel better.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)This couldn't get any better. Make up a meme, say someone else did it, then wait for the pats of the back.
Fuck Trump and his racist bigoted sexist supporters. Some of the worst this country has to offer. That comment is still welcome on DU, right?
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)At all.
Fuck Trump and his racist, bigoted, and sexist supporters.
One again, not a meme.
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)"Evolution in thinking is impossible"
You declared that a meme.
You declared the following is not (as well as the many similar sentiments in that thread.)
"I don't want any candidate running as a Democrat going after votes of people who: 1)hate people who look like me, 2) are bigots"
You can parse those semantics if you'd like.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Please go put words in someone else's mouth.
Fuck Trump and his racist, bigoted, sexist supporters.
Again, not a meme.
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)Post 21. "Make up a meme, say someone else did it, then wait for the pats of the back. "
Its a shared thought among many Clinton supporters. Meme, not a meme, whatever.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)
earthside
(6,960 posts)Ironic that eventually they are the ones most likely to meet-up with the Trumpians.
I've seen here today and yesterday, for example, a Hillarian condemn Bernie Sanders as a "draft dodger" and another using Reagan thinking to argue against government programs to help people.
Weird how some of these folks who I would imagine perceive themselves to be liberals and/or progressives are becoming flat-out reactionaries.
This should indeed be the meme for the New Year: The cognitive dissonance is strong at Camp Weathervane.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Hell, yeah, we do!
So did Obama. Remember "Obamacans," Republicans who were voting for Obama? But, if Bernie tries to get those votes, he's wrong, wrong, wrong.
Because....I give up.
brooklynite
(94,698 posts)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Not on a federal, legislative level. It's not happening.
And I dont say this as a "2nd Amendment Enthusiast", I say this as a parent who was horrified by Newtown.
But even after that, we couldnt get background checks through DC. I'm sorry, but if you think Hillary as potus is going to mean "taking teh guns away"... You seriously do not understand the political reality of this nation. It is as unrealistic as Ted Cruz thinking he's really going to outlaw the birth control pill or Rick Santorum thinking he's gonna get all teh nekkid boobies off HBO.
At a federal level meaningful gun control legislation is not going to happen. Not any time soon.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Etc. or something like that?
THIS is exactly what that quote looks like in action.
We must ALL stand togther against the oligarchy.
merrily
(45,251 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)HRH's supporters want to spin Bernie's ability to appeal across demographic lines as something nefarious.
Bernie's message INCLUDES all of the 99%.
Same old scenario from camp weathervan; fling poop see if it sticks, if it doesn't, fling some more. Rinse and repeat.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Note the word "supposedly." However, that is the story. I'd rather have a Democrat saying, in effect, "Republicans should vote for me because my traditional Democratic policies benefit them, too" than to have a Democrat saying, in effect, "Vote for me because I'm not as very different from Republicans as you might imagine."
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)Bernie is Jesus Christ, and all we have to do is make Trumps supporters repent for they're sins. Maybe even get them to sing "Amazing Grace" afterwards. If you want the cesspool of America as your supporters to help you get over the hump have at it. When David Duke says that he loves trumps racism but is too crazy for him, you know what if nothing else it will be .... interesting.
Last edited Tue Dec 29, 2015, 03:39 PM - Edit history (1)
I wonder how many of the fervent are ever confronted with the brunt of racist hatred from Trump's supporters. He has attracted white supremacists of all stripes. What more needs to be said? That type of racism could give a flying fig about economic issues. If Sanders expects to lie down with that sort of dog, he should expect to get rabies.
Opening a back door to further mainstream hatred is not the answer. Our family lived through several years of outright hell brcause my husband was given employment that his coworkers thought was not suitable for "the black boy." He has been arrested twice and held once on a made up charge and once without charge for anything. That sort of racist is a-okay with firebombing places of worship or physically assaulting people just because they look different and might be terrorists. Or deport anyone who is deemed unworthy.
I think that Sanders is playing a cynical game.
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)the people he would go after is the members of the Republican party that feel pushed out by Trump. Go figure.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)and against gay marriage.
Which means she's lying.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)information: just whatever's trendy at the moment
we've always been at war with Afrasia
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Try a little less hate.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)that Hillary is evolving on all the issues?
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)At least that's what you'd think reading all the posts complaining about Hillary where any time she changed an opinion or policy position, it is equated with dishonesty. But GREAT when other people do it! Pure awesome!
The hypocrisy is strong at (insert common pejorative used to insult Sander's supporters because I was absent the day we learned that one).
NanceGreggs
(27,817 posts)... not by a long-shot.
But if that's what you need to tell yourself, that's okay. It's not easy being on the losing side - one believes what one must.
If BS had garnered the support among Democrats that was predicted by his supporters from day one, he wouldn't be trawling for votes among Trump's racist disciples.
Bernie has hit his ceiling among Democrats, liberals, progressives - so now his only (desperate) hope is to find support among those who are anti-Dem, anti-liberal, anti-progressive.
The fact that this move is being promoted as some noble desire to reach out to the other side is as transparent as it is ludicrous.
It is an act of desperation. And it is seen for what it is by those who are actually paying attention.
Cha
(297,513 posts)being "noble" hooking up with the teabagger, bath tub drain guy(sorry can't remember his name).. to tear down ACA.. that later became Obamacare.. helping millions while hamsher is on the dustpile of history.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Evolution in thinking is possible for people who think.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)It will protest the unfairness of the changing and changed world with all its underpopulated voice.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)He committed one primary, major, horrendous sin, and that was posing an actual potential prinary challenge to Secretary Inevitable.
Converesely, there is only ONE thing he could ever do that would be the right thing to do, and that is... leave the race.
And even if he does that, there is still gonna be some long-simmering, deep, fundamental teeth-grinding RAGE against the guy in some quarters against the guy. ...like, How DARE HE!
