Re- whether Uretsky was a "plant," WARNING!

[snot]

This could also be about "Rather-izing" the Sanders campaign.

Ratherizing Bernie would be a perfect solution for TPTB, since part of his message is that the system is "rigged" against the 99%. Ratherizing him could undermine ALL his messages – as in, even if you respect his integrity, are you sure he isn't just paranoid, or mistaken?

Granted, all the paranoia in the world seems justified here, but. I'm not sure it's necessary to jump to conclusions, esp. when they might be difficult to prove and all the records are in the hands of the opposition.

But we DO need to PRESS HARD for a TRULY INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION --- ASAP!!!

[Uncle Joe]

1. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, snot.

[Scuba]

2. "... all the paranoia in the world seems justified here ..." sums things up very well.

[NCTraveler]

14. And the rhetoric from the Sanders campaign backs that up. Lol nt

[rhett o rick]

29. We've been expecting these dirty tricks. We will survive and kick the corrupt Oligarchy's

asses out of our government.

Some ask why do some Democrats back the corrupt corporate run government. My guess is that they love the tough, kick-ass, win at all costs, authoritarian leadership of the wealthy 1%.

[iandhr]

3. Can we stop with the truly ridiculous conspiracy theories?

[peacebird]

10. Let's hope anonymous chooses to investigate!

[99th_Monkey]

25. I do like the sound of that.

[emulatorloo]

4. That the source is an "unnamed advisor" is odd to me. Will wait to see what Jeff Weaver and

Tad Devine have to say about this. Both of them are very straightforward and IMHO would never do the "unnamed advisor" thing or tolerate it from their staff.

For the record I do not think Uretsky was a plant. I heard his interview on MSNBC, after Weavers big press conference. He sounded like a real straightforward stand-up guy.

I don't think Bernie is getting ratherized. But the "unnamed advisor" thing threw me off.

As to an Independent investigation ASAP, right there with you!

[Luminous Animal]

5. Bernie nor anyone from his campaign claimed Uretsky was a plant.

[Kalidurga]

6. Uretsky was a plant or he let his curiosity get the better of him.

Both stories seem just as likely which is why an investigation would be helpful. If he was a plant it is going to look awful on the DNC or whoever got him in there. If he was curious about the enthusiasm that Hillary supporters are showing for her campaign well that doesn't look good, but it is understandable.

[Luminous Animal]

8. Or he was doing exactly what he said he was doing.

[Kalidurga]

12. That is another possibility

But, that one is the one that looks the least likely as far as I can tell from what IT people are saying. They say it's possible, but it looks kinda funny. The curiosity one fits the evidence that is at hand. The plant theory also fits the evidence at hand. Neither seem incredulous in the slightest. Which is why I would like to see an investigation. If he was planted there this is very serious. If he was just curious well that is also serious, but it would make the demonization of him seem rather over the top in light of his reasons for what he did.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

22. I'd like to see an investigation - most definitely, just to clear everything up.

[NCTraveler]

18. But that can't be blamed on Clinton...

Or the mythical PTB.

[TheProgressive]

7. No, not a chance...

Your conclusions do not follow the premise.

[MohRokTah]

9. K&R

The world needs to see where the Sanders campaign is going with this!!!!!

[CorporatistNation]

13. Teah... We Need The Hillary Underground To Quit Stonewalling and Comply with The FULL Investigation

FROM DAY ONE.... IF... They have nothing to hide?

[MohRokTah]

20. .

[Vattel]

24. Provide a quote where anyone in the Sanders campaign claimed that Utresky was a plant.

You can't because there is none. But that won't stop fools like you from suggesting otherwise.

[MohRokTah]

26. You'd be better to direct your demand to multiple nws agencies...

they're the ones going with this, which makes the Sanders campaign looks like it's run by a buffoon!

[Vattel]

28. So you have no quote. Big surprise.

[MohRokTah]

30. Again, I didn't write any one of the numerous stories going with this.

but go ahead and attack me instead of the numerous news agencies putting this story out there and making your guy look like he's wearing a tinfoil hat.

I would also note that at least half of the Sanders supporters on this site are believing the stories, too.

[Vattel]

34. So you have no quote.

[MohRokTah]

37. Neither do any of the Sanders supporters running with this...

[passiveporcupine]

11. Bernie is not being paranoid about this

I'm waiting for results of the investigation...or maybe even the next one.

[Duval]

16. And however long it takes!

[Duval]

15. K&R.

[MrChuck]

17. It does not serve the Clinton campaign to seek an independent anything here.

[Proserpina]

19. You can say that again!

How many investigations has she been subject to, and the first primary is still over a month away? This one could put the cork back in the bottle.

[AzDar]

21. K & R

[CoffeeCat]

23. In my opinion the Sanders camp

Needs to move on. I think Sanders has all ready beaten the Clinton team. After the DNC blocked Sanders from his own data, the outcry and support for Bernie was like an avalanche.

Sanders sued the DNC, and is pressing for an investigation. I doubt that we could get a proper investigation. The whole thing backfiree at the DNC and because DWS and the DNC are so intertwined with favoring the Clinton camp--many people that it may have been a set up. Great damage inflicted on the Clinton camp and also on the DNC.

I think we need to settle for these wins. And move the hell on.

I don't think you want to continue tango-ing with this nest of vipers. We've got an election to win. I think they could "Ratherize" Bernie. Cut out dealing with anonymous sources and focus on the election. Don't make yourself vulnerable to sociopaths.

Plenty of evidence suggests that the Clinton campaign is struggling in Iowa. That's when they start acting like sociopathic loons. I live in Iowa and I've seen the rotten-to-the-core Clinton campaign malarkey. It was in high gear in 2008. I think the stakes are higher in 2015. The last thing she wants is to run a long, drawn out contested primary. I think their backs are against the wall and they're capable of nearly anything, as they are losing ground in Iowa every day, as Sanders gains.

Bernie has 18 events in Iowa before Jan 1. Clinton has ZERO. They're most likely recalibrating and restrategizing. Does anyone think this means that they're working on their phone scripts to volunteers? Or on editing press releases about promising education ideas? Whatever they're doing is most likely not positive. They're facing possible losses in IA and NH. The crap they're planning, one can only guess. Prepare for the worst, I say--and focus on the prize.

[Doitnow]

32. For Heaven's sake

won't someone please define "ratherize" so the rest of us can understand what on earth you all are talking about!!!!

[CoffeeCat]

36. Playing games with someone

or a campaign. Setting someone up to look foolish or to destroy their credibility.

Are you completely unaware of what the Bush camp did to Dan Rather?

Yeah. Don't mess with snakes. You'll get bit.

[snot]

53. "Rather-ize" comes from what happened to Dan Rather.

. . . when Rather reported on Bush Jr.'s National Guard delinquency, based in part on documents that turned out to be of dubious origin. Instead of undermining Bush, Rather's credibility was destroyed and he lost his job.

Details at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy .

[joshcryer]

40. +1

Pointless distraction, every fucking time this non issue comes up. It's been well over a week, it's not important.

[senz]

51. So many valid points, CoffeeCat.

I wish you would send an email or a letter to the Bernie campaign.

[George II]

27. All the parties have already agreed to an independent investigation.

[JDPriestly]

43. Do you have a link to an article on that. I read that Hillary has agreed but that

the DNC which would be the party most involved next to Hillary and Bernie has not. The DNC also has to agree or it won't happen.

[Buzz Clik]

31. This whole issue is so much important to ...

... Sanders supporters than HRC.

Is this their Gary Hart pivot point?

[starroute]

35. Hart was caught carrying on an adulterous affair

He was photographed on a yacht with a young blond in his lap who wasn't his wife.

What in the world do you see as even remotely comparable?

[Buzz Clik]

45. Keep reading about him.

The Monkey Business was the chum in the water, not the end of the game. His supporters and staff eventually became so disillusioned with him because if the lying and manipulations as they were revealed one by one.

[starroute]

33. I'm concluding the problem is that NGP-VAN has a near-monopoly

They boast on their website that almost every Democratic and progressive group uses their data systems. And several of their top people are tight with Hillary. That's a problem right there.

Having looked into Uretsky a bit, I don't for one moment believe he was a plant. But he was somebody who had previously been at the local Philadelphia office of a progressive group and had never worked on a major political campaign. In other words, he was the sort of person the Sanders campaign would have been likely to end up with if they wanted somebody with NGP-VAN experience who wasn't tied to the party establishment.

And that meant he was kind of green. He wasn't the one who found and reported the October breach -- and by his own account, when he spotted the one in December, he became panicky and did the test runs to try to calm himself down.

So yes, there is a problem. But (like so much else in our society), the problem is structural and not the result of a deliberate conspiracy.

[JDPriestly]

44. I think that what he did was perfectly understandable.

There was an error, a bug, in the program. It allowed the Bernie campaign to see Hillary's data. But how much? Was there really an error?

The searches I saw would have verified that Hillary's data was mixed with Bernie's and how much of it, whether the vital donor information was there.

I think Uretsky was verifying the breach and trying to determine just what was breached.

It may be wrong in Bernie's view, but it seems reasonable to me. The information, the data and even the record of the searches all stayed on the NGP Van website -- including the "folders" with the exception, as I understand it, of the page of searches, the questions asked of the database.

I could be wrong, but that is what I understand happened.

That was OK until Debbie Wasserman-Schulz took the story to the press.

What Uretsky did did not hurt Hillary's campaign.

But what Debbie Wasserman-Schulz was intended to hurt Bernie's campaign. I doubt that it will.

But it will hurt the Democratic Party unless Debbie Wasserman-Schulz takes responsibility and resigns. I think that is about the only way to heal the tear in our party that this episode has caused.

This plus the horrible debate schedule to say nothing of big losses in congressional races in 2010 and 2014 make Debbie Wasserman-Schulz look inept and ill-fitted for the job she holds at the DNC. Some of her staff probably should go with her.

And I hate to see people fired. But I think it is appropriate for her to leave at this poing.

[freedom fighter jh]

38. Agree.

The statement that that contractor (I forget their name) recommended Uretsky sounds like they steered him to the Sanders campaign. But it could mean just that someone there wrote him a letter of reference.

Makes my paranoid mind suspect a set-up, trying to get Sanders people to make a big deal out of something meaningless.

[senz]

50. Very good point.

[Hoyt]

39. Sadly, unless any investigation has a photo of Sanders punching a keyboard, any negative finding

will immediately be dismissed as part of the conspiracy by the oligarchs. It will he just like when Sanders' campaign workers were caught-- it's Clinton and the DNC's fault, they set us up.

I appreciate Sanders' efforts and beliefs, except when it comes to not managing his staff.

[MeNMyVolt]

41. + how many you can imagine. n/t

[JDPriestly]

42. Yes, it seems far-fetched to think that the Hillary campaign would place a

plant in Bernie's campaign.

And then we remember the Dean scream.

The 1%, the powerful in this country will do the craziest things sometimes . . . but then Uretsky may have been acting in good faith and been trying to ascertain the extent of the breach of the firewall caused by NPG Van's "bug" in their release.

I would not jump to any conclusions, but an investigation, an independent investigation is in order.

I support Bernie's call for a truly independent investigation and not just some cover-up of the facts organized by Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, their agents and their friends.

The future of the Democratic Party is at stake here.

The debate schedule makes the DNC look very bad. It's either gross mismanagement or an attempt to silence different opinions and destroy the campaigns of candidates who oppose Hillary in the primary.

So there was the Dean scream and now Debbie Wasserman-Schulz, her debate schedule and then her rush to the media with an attempt to make the Sanders campaign look bad.

An independent investigation is required. "Planting" an employee in an opponent's campaign or in a campaign you don't wish well seems very extreme.

But then the disastrous debate schedule and the limits on the candidates with regard to participating in other debates outside the schedule are extreme and there is no question those things happened.

We shall see.

I hope Bernie maintains his lawsuit and gets court orders for discovery. And soon.

[Mnpaul]

46. It doesn't seem all that far fetched given Hillary's history

of planting people in the audience to ask questions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/12/clintons-planted-question_n_72294.html


She even goes as far as accusing another campaign of doing it after being exposed.

Last month Clinton got into a tough exchange with Iowan Randall Rolph at an event in New Hampton, Iowa. She accused him of being a plant from another campaign and the two engaged in a heated back and forth. The exchange prompted extended media coverage.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3848826&page=1

[840high]

52. +1

[senz]

49. + 1

[Renew Deal]

47. There is a lot of paranoia in the Sanders campaign.

On pretty much every topic. Media, Staffers, polls, breach, etc.

[senz]

48. K&R -- THANK YOU!