~60 hours late, Hillary changes her message about Trump.

[Motown_Johnny]

*This is all paraphrased and based on what MSNBC is reporting.*


At a rally in Iowa, Hillary is now saying that it is the videos of Trump on Arabic television stations that is playing into the hands of ISIS. Not that ISIS is going around showing videos of Trump as a recruitment tool.


This should keep the problem from compounding any further.

Why she couldn't do this before the Sunday morning talk shows got a hold of her misstatement is beyond me. Now the video of her making that mistake is backed up with her campaign defending it. I think we can all see the attack ads that will come from this if she is our nominee.

You can bet Trump will claim this as a victory too. He will say that she had to back down and continue to call her a liar. He may even do it in a Presidential debate if he is given the chance.

Unforced error. Foolish, but at least we can try to move past it now.

[zazen]

1. yeah, I wish she hadn't apologized to that Bozo, because what she said is generally true

And like any narcissistic bully, he takes an apology as a sign of weakness.

[emulatorloo]

4. Afaik she has not and will not apologize.

[Motown_Johnny]

5. She didn't apologize and I don't think she should.

At least I have not heard any reporting that she has.

She is simply making statements that can't be represented as lies.

[emulatorloo]

2. Nit-picky word-parsing MSM 'fact' checks can't hide the truth about Trump.

We saw this game played with Kerry, Obama, and every Democrat who came before.

Trump and his MSM apologists don't get a pass from me. Those fuckers will use the same bs tactics against Bernie once he wins Iowa and NH.

[still_one]

8. You are right, it is pure MSM B.S. Ironically, when the Donald said, "Obama wasn't an American",

the MSM didn't have too much of a problem with that. In fact I don't recall one MSM media outlet actually pointing out that Trump was wrong. Instead they took the Chuck Todd approach, "it wasn't their job to point out inaccuracies, that is up to those being accused".

Now suddenly they are all up in arms against an exaggeration against a racist bigot.

I also believe you are correct, similar or worse tactics will be used against Bernie, especially if he wins Iowa or NH.

[Matariki]

16. +1

[still_one]

3. As I said in another thread, well bless their little hearts. No problem with trump's, "Obama isn't

American", or "American Muslims, shouldn't be trusted", but god help us all because someone said the "honorable Trump", and his racists rants against Muslims could be used as a recruiting tool by "ISIL. So it was an exaggeration, big fuc*n deal.

I guess when anti-Islamic videos that have been associated bywith riots in Libya, where a U.S. ambassador was killed, and riots occurred in Egypt were just a coincidence. I am sure the violence associated with the publishing of the cartoons depicting Muhammad in a negative way by a Danish Newspaper was purely coincidental, or the assignation of Pim Fortuyn had nothing to do with anti-Muslim rhetoric. Nothing to see here regarding the attack on Charlie Hebdo, or recent attacks in France.

I am so happy that these purveyors of the forth estate are so sure that Trump's anti-Muslim hate speech does not incite violence.

Yup, nothing to see here, move along

[Motown_Johnny]

6. Lying about a liar doesn't make it the truth.

Hillary made a mistake by not correcting that misstatement as soon as possible.

The message can be the same and no apology is necessary, but the statements she makes need to be true.

[still_one]

9. It was an exageration about a fuck*ng racist bigot. Sorry but I don't have too much sympathy

[Motown_Johnny]

17. That is the mindset that had (R)s lying about WMD in Iraq.

Once you decide that it is OK to lie about people you don't approve of then where does it end?


I have no sympathy for Trump. I just want the statements our candidates make to be accurate. Is that really to much to ask?

[zazen]

13. ideally, yes, but this is gender "metaphor we live by" in action: man=Repub, woman=Dem

Meaning, there's a double standard through the deeply unconscious gendering of our two-party system and it's particularly gross here.

This doesn't erase individual sexism against Republican women and/or abusive behavior by Democratic women towards male Democratic candidates.

But, the traditional system has been applied to the Repub/Dem binary, wherein a man (and in this case, a batterer, because Trump is a the profile of a batterer) is never wrong, never has to apologize, is the "norm," wherein a woman has to fit in within the norm, apologize if the man's feelings are upset for any reason (including his own behavior), and is assumed wrong until proven otherwise. So, Repubs get treated like honorary men, and Dems are treated like honorary women.

This deep gendering was evident in things like the flip flops/cowboy boots ad with Kerry/Bush. It's been going on a while and others have analyzed it better than I.

Let's hold to a higher standard for our ethics because we want to, but not to these petty quibbles that the media (or our Republican batterer friends) create.

Notice how Bernie always apologizes for sincere mistakes if he means it. If he doesn't believe it was a mistake, he doesn't apologize. He doesn't do it for focus groups. He doesn't say, oh, I should have done all of this stuff against gun manufacturers--no. He made the vote. He stands by it. His staff screwed up (sorta--since I personally believe it was mostly a setup) and he apologizes, wants an independent audit, and moves on.

Conceding a real mistake--like HRC's collusion with DWS--well, that'd be nice, on a personal level to Bernie, along with "amends"--meaning, changing the behavior.

Apologizing for a faux mistake related to a maniac like Trump? He doesn't deserve one.

I'm a huge Bernie supporter, but Trump's attacks on Hillary are making me sick.

[comradebillyboy]

25. Amazing, I wonder how many Bernie supporters at DU

are defending Donald Trump? It's certainly more than one I'm afraid. But I have seen plenty of DUers link Britebart, Daily Caller and Moonie Times articles to defame Hillary, so why not support Donald Trump as well?

[still_one]

34. Without a doubt, not many. Those who have good critical thinking skills realize that what

Hillary said was essentially valid. The others just want to use it to create flame bait

[NorthCarolina]

7. OJK, so she decided to acquiesce. An apology of sorts I suppose.

Will this be the end of it? Nah.

[JoePhilly]

10. She's right ... his speeches tell moderate Muslims that we hate them.

Which is exactly what ISIS tells moderate Muslims.

Trump's speeched, in and of themselves, are recruiting videos for ISIS.

ISIS doesn't even need to edit or publish them. The clips of Trump saying these things go straight to youtube.

Stop defending Trump.

[Motown_Johnny]

14. Which is why making false statements is so stupid.

The truth works. Why not use it?


I am not defending Trump. I just want our potential nominee to not screw up so badly.

[JoePhilly]

15. oh yea ... this is a huge problem.

Almost as bad as her emails and Benghazi.

[Motown_Johnny]

20. If she is the nominee, this will come back to bite her.

You know damn well there will be attack ads made out of these last 3 days and it will just energize conservatives to turn out against Hillary.


Unforced error. Never should have happened.

[Hoyt]

26. Don't worry. She can handle it and turn it around on the racist warmonger Trump.

[still_one]

35. you're right, this will bite big time. The racists and bigots won't support her.

[Matariki]

11. The essence of what she said about Trump was true

How she said it was for effect or just rhetoric exaggeration. I think making it out to be a lie isn't really accurate and takes away from the point. That weaselheaded airbag IS giving material to ISL

[thereismore]

12. She tends to double down on things like sniper fire. nt

[thereismore]

18. A classic double standard. A democrat says something not quite kosher and MSM loses their shit.

Trump lies his toupee off and they all love it.

[NuclearDem]

19. Fuck Donald Trump.

[Motown_Johnny]

21. So it is OK for our candidates to lie about their candidates?

Seriously?

[NuclearDem]

22. Fuck Donald Trump.

[dlwickham]

24. that's just a nasty image

[Motown_Johnny]

27. Hard to argue with logic like that. n/t

[anigbrowl]

29. I don't think she lied about it

Here's a story from nearly 2 week before the debate that la Clinton apparently based her comments on: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/donald-trumps-muslim-bashing-aids-cause-terror-networks-say-experts-n476221

Has ISIS made any videos of their own featuring Trump, not that I've heard of and I am not going into the dark web to look for recruitment videos. On the other hand, any plays of Trump's speeches in Iraq or Syria are probably not by GOP expatriates trying to decide how to cast an absentee ballot in the primary election. At worst this is exaggeration or hearsay

Clinton should apologize for this potentially inaccurate remark...right after Trump admits he made up the claim that thousands of Muslims were celebrating in New Jersey 9/11.

[Motown_Johnny]

30. I don't think she should apologize.

I think she should have corrected the misstatement (which is being characterized as a lie) immediately.

Waiting two and a half days and having a back and forth with Trump for that long was a mistake.

Lawrence O'Donnell explained it much better than I can.

Video at link: http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word

[anigbrowl]

33. Storm, meet teacup. nt

[dlwickham]

23. maybe she should fire people from her campaign

wait a minute-that's Sanders not Hillary; her campaign workers haven't done anything to warrant firing

[Motown_Johnny]

28. Nope, but she has.

[dlwickham]

37. like what?

[Motown_Johnny]

39. I suppose you have forgiven her for this, many of us have not.

She should not be our nominee.

[Nonhlanhla]

31. She clarified; she did not apologize

And she won't apologize. If anything, he should apologize to her for talking of her bathroom break in such disgusting terms, and for saying she was schlonged by Obama. I did not even know the meaning of that word (I guess I'm not good at slang), but when I looked it up, I was disgusted. He's basically using a rape analogy. Revolting man.

[Motown_Johnny]

32. I never said she apologized. In fact, I pointed out that she didn't.

I make no excuses for Trump. Yes, most of what he says is repulsive and the fact that he is a serious contender for a Presidential nomination is almost beyond belief.


That doesn't mean our candidates can make statements phrased as if they are facts, that they can't prove. Giving an opinion works just fine. Her saying that the TV videos "play into the hands of ISIS" is the right way to do it.

What she did during the debate was a mistake.

[Nonhlanhla]

36. Sorry, I meant to repond to others

who said she apologized.

However, I don't think what she said in the debate was so much a mistake as merely something that needed further clarification.

[joshcryer]

38. I thought I was on DI for a second there.

[bigtree]

40. she should double down

...most Americans get her point. Trump's rhetoric is used by fellow demagogues everywhere, including those who seek to inflame tensions in their own regions of the world.

You say, "Trump will claim this as a victory too..."

He claims everything that dribbles out of his mouth as some triumph. What's the point in portraying ANYTHING he says as valid?

This defense of trump is used here, not out of genuine concern about the political effects of Hillary's statement, but as a cudgel against our Democratic candidate. I find that to be a despicable tactic.

[Motown_Johnny]

41. How low do you want her trustworthy numbers to be?

She is already terribly upside down on these and the attack ads of her saying this and then doubling down on it will hurt them even more if she is the nominee.


Think long term here. I know it feels good to have Trump called out for what he is, but it can be done with statements that are verifiable and completely truthful.