Bernie Sanders had a point about those ‘fancy dormitories’ and ‘giant football stadiums’

[Uncle Joe]

One of the reasons college is so prohibitively expensive is that “some colleges and universities that are spending a huge amount of money on fancy dormitories and on giant football stadiums,” Senator Bernie Sanders said during Saturday night’s Democratic debate in Manchester, N.H.

“Maybe we should focus on quality education with well-paid faculty members. And I understand in many universities a heck of a lot of vice presidents earn a big salary,” he said.

Officials at public schools do tend to be better compensated than professors. Football and basketball coaches at large state colleges are often the highest-paid public employees in many states, as Deadspin reported in 2013. The increases in pay for public university presidents and coaches has far outstripped increases for professors, according to an annual study from the American Association of University Professors. The study found that public university presidents at doctoral colleges saw an 11.3% median pay rise between 2007 and 2014, while professors at those universities had just a 2.2% median pay rise in that same period. It also found that median salaries for head football coaches increased 93% between 2006 and 2012.

Saturday night’s debate was held at Saint Anslem College in New Hampshire. Sanders was responding to a question from the executive director of the college’s Institute of Politics, Neil Levesque, who asked how, in practice, the Vermont senator would make college more affordable.

(snip)

“We should look at college today the way high school was looked at 60 years ago. All young people who have the ability should be able to get a college education,” he said.

http://fusion.net/story/247264/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-martin-o-malley-democratic-debate-college-education/?

There is more on the link.

[valerief]

1. That was an excellent point. It's kinda like the American taxpayer's money going

mainly to war and the ordinary taxpayer getting nothing useful for it, because it's all going to war profiteers and "national security protected secret rich people shit."

[Uncle Joe]

5. Ancient Rome had its Colosseum and we have our football stadiums

it has become the same thing just a little more civilized.

Gracchus: Fear and wonder, a powerful combination.

Falco: You really think people are going to be seduced by that?

Gracchus: I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate, it's the sand of the coliseum. He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0172495/quotes

[valerief]

8. Good quote! nt

[KoKo]

18. ...! Indeed!

[reformist2]

21. I hate to say it, but colleges charge whatever they want, because the gov't rubberstamps the debt.

If the government somehow could act on behalf of all the students borrowing from it, setting up a sort of "borrowers union", then maybe they could negotiate tuitions down. As it stands now, colleges and universities are literally rolling around in money. It's obscene.

Of course, if the colleges and universities don't like negotiating with their students, there's always Bernie's idea which would all but guarantee government-mandated price controls!

[Faux pas]

2. Kickin'

[Punkingal]

3. Yes, he does....

Not to mention football players get their crimes covered up.

[Scootaloo]

4. The University of Alabama's waterfall soaking pool comes to mind

With a hot tub immediately opposite.

[libdem4life]

6. This is so true...either the students or the taxpayers pay for it and have no say. Just shut up

and write your check.

On education, today, one must have a BA to compete for even entry level jobs. That's how they quickly clear out the volume of Resumes. It takes a Master's Degree often to get real jobs. And an MA costs a bundle.

[1StrongBlackMan]

11. See comment #7. eom

[libdem4life]

13. Not buying it. The cost/tuition is prohibitive. Student loaned to death.

And the size makes a difference. I went to a private college that had few sports, no fundraisers. and had it not been for scholarships and student loans, wouldn't have made it. There is no way that happened. The Community Colleges/freshman and sophmore, were free back then...as they should be now.

The tuition has skyrocketed. Thus the students, their families, and the taxpayer carry the burden while the banks and the administrators quietly go to the bank. Same as healthcare...up 1000%.

My niece graduated as an MD with a student loan so high that it takes her entire income as a Resident to pay monthly. They live on her husband's income.

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. No, he doesn't ...

It was an uninformed statement.

The money spent on football stadiums and the fancy dorms comes from foundational and development donors.

The money that goes toward education, including paying faculty, comes from tuition, fees, ancillary sources, grants, and the state.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. Correct.

Bernie is wrong here.

[1StrongBlackMan]

10. I work for a University ...

And one of my client groups is the Office of Development.

[Uncle Joe]

12. Bernie never mentioned who pays for football stadiums, he was talking about salary.

Officials at public schools do tend to be better compensated than professors. Football and basketball coaches at large state colleges are often the highest-paid public employees in many states, as Deadspin reported in 2013. The increases in pay for public university presidents and coaches has far outstripped increases for professors, according to an annual study from the American Association of University Professors. The study found that public university presidents at doctoral colleges saw an 11.3% median pay rise between 2007 and 2014, while professors at those universities had just a 2.2% median pay rise in that same period. It also found that median salaries for head football coaches increased 93% between 2006 and 2012.

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. Still doesn't cut it ...

The coaching staff are paid from the athletic budget, and derived through gate sales and endorsements; not the general budget.

Though I will concede ... University Presidents (and their executives) are over paid, in my estimation.

[Uncle Joe]

19. Who funds the athletic budget? In many cases it's the students.

Sports At Any Cost

In the past five years, public universities pumped more than $10.3 billion in mandatory student fees and other subsidies into their sports programs, according to an examination by The Huffington Post and The Chronicle of Higher Education. The review included an inflation-adjusted analysis of financial reports provided to the NCAA by 201 public universities competing in Division I, information that was obtained through public records requests. The average athletic subsidy these colleges and their students have paid to their athletics departments increased 16 percent during that time. Student fees, which accounted for nearly half of all subsidies, increased by 10 percent.

Many universities are demanding that their students pay more to support sports at the same time they are raising tuition, forcing many students to take out bigger loans to pay the bill.

Student fee increases have sparked campus protests at some institutions, and have drawn criticism from lawmakers in some states. A few elite athletic programs bring in so much revenue that they do not require student fees or other subsidies, and some even return cash back to their universities. At the other end of the spectrum are five universities in Virginia, including the College of William & Mary, that charged students an athletics fee that exceeded $1,500 a year during 2014-15, more than most students spend on their annual cell phone bills.

The HuffPost/Chronicle analysis found that subsidization rates tend to be highest at colleges where ticket sales and other revenue is the lowest — meaning that students who have the least interest in their college’s sports teams are often required to pay the most to support them.

Many colleges that heavily subsidize their athletic departments also serve poorer populations than colleges that can depend more on outside revenue for sports. The 50 institutions with the highest athletic subsidies averaged 44 percent more Pell Grant recipients than the 50 institutions with the lowest subsidies during 2012-13, the most recent year available.

(snip)

http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/ncaa/sports-at-any-cost

There is more on the link.

[reformist2]

22. Maybe the proceeds of the athletic events should go to the university first???

You make it sound like the coaches are entitled to take such absurd salaries.

[yeoman6987]

28. Football often pays for the other sports on campus

So be careful what you criticize unless you want to completely ban all sports at universities. The sports that get a huge crowd pays for that volleyball team that is lucky to sell 100 tickets. Think!!!!!!!

[Duppers]

34. It's a mixed bag.

Found this in-depth article breaking it down...

http://www.ethosreview.org/intellectual-spaces/is-college-football-profitable/

[mythology]

14. When I was at the University of Colorado

There was a student fee for upgrades to the football stadium. Most football programs actually lose money.

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/10/upon-review-college-football-giant-waste-money-schools/

Yes other sports all lose money but none get the millions and millions of dollars football does or lose as much total money.

As for better dorms/amenities, those are all but a requirement. If you limit public universities to not building those things, you effectively cede that draw to private universities.

Of course given that a lot of blame for the near bankruptcy of Burlington College under the presidency of Sanders wife, he may not want to make to much of an issue out of college administrators.

[cali]

17. Bull. It's wildly excessive, and Bernie's point has been made over and over

[reformist2]

23. I'm amazed we have people here defending $40,000 tuitions. Maybe they are in the education biz?

[MichMan]

15. Will students at those schools be ineligible for free tuition?

While everyone understands that the costs of higher ed have gone through the roof and something needs to be done about the skyrocketing student loan debt, I don't see how any of the proposals would do anything to help lower the costs.

If the costs of higher ed are inflated due to "fancy dormitories and giant football stadiums" does Bernie's free college plan perpetuate it by providing tuition for those students anyway or will it only be directed to those colleges who don't have those amenities?

I have yet to see any explanation of how "free tuition" would be implemented. Schools now have widely varying tuition costs.

For example. currently University of Michigan costs $14K while nearby Eastern Michigan Univ is $9.6K. Would the government just pay $14K for one student and $9.6K for another? If so, why wouldn't EMU raise their tuition to $14K too? Or do they tell U of M that they are only getting $9K and must cut current tuition rates to that level.

Also, if University of Michigan is "free" and nearby Washtenaw Community College is also "free", why would anyone decide to attend the community college vs a major state university with all the amenities (including fancy dormitories and giant football stadiums)

[Uncle Joe]

20. I don't know, perhaps there will be a cap on free tuition based

on an average or mean cost?

Perhaps universities with expensive stadiums or dorms especially those subsidized by student costs will have a lower cap.

Nonetheless it would be an improvement over the existing system.

[MichMan]

25. If the real issue is the rising costs, those will need to be tackled

Right now, colleges are able to increase tuition costs year after year well above inflation, since students continue to borrow more and more $$$ in order to attend. Prestigious universities know this and still turn away students regardless of skyrocketing tuition.

Students figure they have little choice and borrow staggering amounts like it is monopoly money, with at least some thought that they are responsible to pay it back.

If the someone else is paying the bill (Wall Street and/or taxpayers) , students won't care at all what the costs are as they won't ever be accountable for paying.

[madinmaryland]

24. There are many reasons "why"...

Maybe they don't want to go to college, but need some additional education to start their career. Maybe they don't have the grades to get into UM, but will be able to get into the local community college.

[Dawson Leery]

26. He is right

Sports get too many resources. It is disgusting.

[arcane1]

27. Highwest Paid Public Employees by State

Not sure how accurate or timely this is, but it pops up now and then:

[Dont call me Shirley]

29. That's because gambling is way more lucrative than education.

[MrMickeysMom]

30. In most universities, the highest paid employee is the head football coach...

!!!

This drives away programs and program directors that would naturally result in HOW a university is run. I have personal history with that and the University of Central Florida. It's one of the main reasons we LEFT Florida after my husband finished and knew he'd never be in line for tenure, due to the special syphoning of where the money went.

Disgusting in this day that THIS becomes the priority!

[Uncle Joe]

31. arcane has a nice graph on post#27 if you haven't seen it.

Peace to you, MrMickeysMom.

[MrMickeysMom]

35. Saw it now, Uncle Joe...

Peace to you, always, Uncle Joe!

[bluestateguy]

32. He is mostly correct

About the football coaches, stadiums and the bloated administrators, yes.

But I don't think we want to go back to the bad old days when college dorms were like miniature dungeons.

[Uncle Joe]

33. I don't believe Bernie wants to take us there either. n/t