VOX: Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic Nominee....!

[MADem]

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/19/10628862/winners-losers-democratic-debate

2 winners and 3 losers from the third Democratic debate

Winner: Hillary Clinton
Here is a pro-tip for neophytes in the audience — Hillary Clinton is going to be the Democratic nominee. If a few major labor unions had joined the Communications Workers in risking the Wrath of Clinton by endorsing Sanders, I think he would qualify as a long-shot but as things stand he is a no-shot. That means Clinton's goals in these debates are pretty simple: she needs to avoid gaffes, and she wants to evade without committing herself to anything that will be too problematic in a general election.

She pulled it off. When baited by David Muir and Bernie Sanders about whether corporate America "loves" her, Clinton stood up for her progressive record while also standing up for the notion that progressive economic policy would be win-win, including for business. It was a passable primary campaign answer, but most of all she delivered an answer that set her up for a general election rather than getting sucked into a leftier-than-thou bidding war with Sanders.

More than that, she once again reminded the world that debating is a format in which she excels. Clinton is not the greatest orator in contemporary politics, but she is among the wonkiest of major politicians — certainly the wonkiest one on the stage — and she's an extremely effective public speaker for a wonk. Back and forth exchanges over things like the difference between debt-free college and tuition-free college highlighted her virtues as a politician far better than any setpiece speech or 30-second ad would.

[mgcgulfcoast]

1. She has no opposition

Obama fought her tooth and nail in 2008, Sanders has no fight in him.

[tobefree]

4. Looks like

Somebody has a little lesson coming up....

[bowens43]

10. funny in 2008 I remember hill supports saying Obama didn't have a chance, had no fight in him

Hillary will not be president....those who support her are handing the presidency to the lunatics.......good job guys

[Betty Karlson]

32. Clinton wants to conduct the last 20th century campaign.

"Millennials - negligeable kids who should vote for me because it is my turn. Debbie agrees, so there's that. What do you mean: their concerns? Get back to me when millennials run Wall Street, will you?"

[draa]

54. The main reason being the FBI investigation.

If she wins the nomination that investigation will be front and center with the Republicans. That's all you'll hear for months. And people are fools if they believe voters will vote for someone being investigated by the FBI. Not going to happen. Ever.

[RoccoR5955]

22. May the farce be with you! n/t

[JaneyVee]

2. K AND R!

[NurseJackie]

3. Love this bit ...

...rather than getting sucked into a leftier-than-thou bidding war with Sanders.

Hillary's a smart one, she is! Always one step ahead of the current challengers and looking forward to anticipate future challengers.

[workinclasszero]

6. Hillary has no competition

on that debate stage for sure!

[Armstead]

62. "Leftie" as in liberal. Yeah we hate those liberals.

Corporate elites. That's what the real center is. We need to heed Alan Greenspan and Jack Welch and the Titans of Wall St.

Screw those commies who believe the economy ought to be oriented toward broadly based prosperity for as many people as possible. And to hell; with that quaint notion of a democracy in which government represents the interests of the majority.

Screw those lefties. I hate 'em. Damn Commies.

[Cha]

80. GMTA!

[Depaysement]

5. Might happen

in spite of several colicky supporters here.

[Laser102]

7. I love her debate style. She comes off as relaxed, confident and friendly.

It makes me want to invite her for coffee and a chin wag. Like a neighbor.

[RKP5637]

29. Yes, she has a calmness and sophistication about her that I like. And she's not screaming all

the time.

[Coolest Ranger]

8. The primary here in NC is in March

I forget which date but I will be walking to town hall (I can't believe I said that, me walking) and voting for her

[bowens43]

9. and Donald Trump will be president...................

[Dawgs]

11. Yep.

The D party is making a HUUUGGE mistake.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Res ipsa loquitur

and Donald Trump will be president.
..................


-bowens 43

Res ipsa loquitur

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html




Happy Holidays.

DSB
Proud Democrat

[cali]

58. Red Ipsa- and I sure don't need to look it up

means the thing speaks for itself. The classic example is a surgeon leaving a sponge in a patient, your example is an obvious failure. You have rather a habit of using terminology you don't grasp.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. I would appreciate not being patronized.

" Red (sic) Ipsa- and I sure don't need to look it up... you have rather a habit of using terminology
you don't grasp. "

-cali

I would appreciate not being patronized. My old man had a ninth grade education and was effectively self emancipated at fifteen years old when he left his parents' six floor walk up apartment building in the Bronx to be a stevedore at the Baltimore Shipyard My mom was placed in Rapid Advance and graduated high school at fifteen years old and went to work as a book keeper to support her widowed mom and younger brother. My old man died when I was fourteen and left me and her with a seven hundred and fifty square foot shotgun shack and a lot of debt. Despite all that I worked my way through college and graduate school as a lifeguard, fitness instructor, and bouncer and received a graduate degree, a post graduate degree, and did post graduate work.

I am familiar with Latin terms and don't need instruction in them. I would appreciate not being patronized.

Thank you in advance.

Happy Holidays
DSB

[MADem]

17. Sure, pal--when shrimps learn to whistle!

Some light music to brighten your sad day:

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. Shrimp learn to whistle!

http://www.wolverton-mountain.com/articles/Shrimp.htm

[raouldukelives]

20. As long as corporations are happy, they are happy. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. hit.nail.head

[enid602]

30. goal

Isn't that your goal?

[Scootaloo]

52. Unless that's Debbie Wasserman-Schultz's DU account, no.

[Persondem]

38. Clinton already is beating Trump in H2H's. Bernie is too ... at the moment. But ...

as soon as the GOP media turned its big guns on him he would go down in flames. There is too much ammo, too many sound bites. All they would have to do is repeat socialist ad nauseum with mentions of Mao, Marx and Lenin.

[stevenleser]

56. The attack ads on Bernie write themselves. By the time it was over Sanders would be

Lucky to get 45% of the vote. I'm guessing he would be closer to 40%.

[Persondem]

61. Exactly. The electoral college would be a disaster. Shades of '72. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Two points

Point One- One could quarrel with the notion that Trump is not a fascist. He holds himself out as a strong man who appeals to nationalism , xenophobia, and latent and overt prejudices.

Point two- Some of my "bestest" friends on this board support MOM but he had two moments where his responses were flat. He accused Bernie and Hillary of bickering when they weren't. He had a canned line and used it despite the situation eliminating the need for its use. Also, when he suggested Bernie and Hillary were prisoners of the past the audience groaned.

[MADem]

16. Fair points, too. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. I don't think Trump is Hitler or Mussolini...

But Marcos, Somoza, Batista, and Franco might provide better comparisons.

[Madmiddle]

14. Hillary looked like an amateur

Saturday night. She was tripping all over herself. Bernie looked presidential, but Clinton struggled in her answers. She has no chance of winning. Why do think they tried to set Sanders up on a simple list breach that he reported to them back in October and again in December. No VOX, sorry you are way wrong.

[MADem]

15. Yeah, that's why she won the debate. Sure, whatever. LOL. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I wonder if your interlocutor is being ironic.

I don't believe even her most devoted detractors believe she is a poor debater or not in command of the facts.

[mdbl]

23. I thinks she's a very talented debater and poitician

so was Reagan, big deal.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. My remarks were directed at the gentleman or lady

My remarks were directed at the gentleman or lady who opined that Hillary Clinton was an "amateur" who "tripped all over herself."

I like to believe I am a big enough man to give credit where credit is due. I voted against Reagan twice but I would never deny he was a skilled politician and debater.

[riversedge]

28. Bernie yelled most of the night and the ....

force was with Hillary.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/12/democratic-debate-the-force-was-with-clinton.html#

[dorkzilla]

21. Oh okay, I’ll stop supporting Sanders straight away then! nt

[MADem]

39. You can support whosoever you desire--no one is forcing you to take Vox's

word as gospel.

I think they're on the right track, YMMV....

[Geronimoe]

26. If I were a Republican, she would have won me over

Boots on the ground in Syria, her praising Bush, and promising taxcuts.

Yeah, baby, hoorah!

[MADem]

34. Yes, because Republicans just LOVE her views on choice, equality, health care, social programs and

diplomacy.

Yeah, baby, hoorah, indeed....

Thank you, good night, and may the force be with you....

In time, you'll learn to love President Hillary Clinton.

[yeoman6987]

36. She she makes a point about president bush that's true, I don't have a problem with it

Especially when her point was not to blame Muslims for the behavior of extreme few. Also it was a knock on trump.

[Dustlawyer]

27. Hillary and many others overlook the age old truism, "You can please some of the

people some of the time, but you cannot please ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME!" Bernie is right (again), the need to balance the scales which have been tilted to favor the filthy rich will not make them a fan of his. Hillary says she will make everyone happy and then later says she will "be tough on Wall Street". Which is it, you cannot have both! We know who who she will favor!

[MADem]

31. We 'know' nothing of the sort. I think she will surprise you, and be one of the best POTUS's we've

ever seen.

[Betty Karlson]

33. Or she could cost us the GE.

Remember: Sanders is the one with cross-over appeal. She is the one with negative coattails.

[MADem]

35. I doubt that. She's the one who has been vetted. Sanders has not.

We've been too decent to make a big deal of his past. You think the GOP will take the same tack?

His "crossover appeal" would cross over the rainbow bridge the second the GOP started taking him to town. Anyone who doesn't see this doesn't understand how the RNC plays it.

[Betty Karlson]

37. "Racist" "Sexist" "Socialist" "thief" - "we have been too decent"?

You have thrown everything but the sink at him, all of it untrue by the way.

[MADem]

46. You will, of course, explain to me why you think the GOP won't go after him.

Don't make this about me--it's not about ME. It's about a candidate with a lot of "past" in his past that most of the country hasn't yet heard.

Tell us why you assert the GOP won't dig into his past and exploit it for their own purposes, and do their own "swiftboating" of him.

[Betty Karlson]

47. He has been vetted. - All Clinton could find against him was

made up accusations and a storm in a teacup about a security beach the DNC let exist for two whole months.

Face it: the man is too authentic to have immersed himself in scandal the way triangulating Clinton has done.

[MADem]

48. He most certainly has NOT been vetted. Not even close.

They could bury him in shit inside a week.

He's got some weirder stuff in his background than rMoney, that the GOP would be delighted to exploit. And he left one helluva paper trail, too. And there's very little "asked and answered" there.

[Betty Karlson]

51. Let Clinton ask it - if she dares. I'm sure Sanders would be happy to answer.

Maybe DWS should schedule some extra debates for the occasion?

[MADem]

67. Democrats aren't going to engage in that kind of conversation -- but it would come up if

BS made it to the general. It would be a shitstorm of disapprobation from the GOP like you've never seen. It would bury him.

[Betty Karlson]

70. In other words: Clinton DOESN'T dare to go there. Maybe that says something about her vulnerability.

Just so you understand: Sanders doesn't run a lot of negative ads against Clinton. You may have noticed that he actually pulled the first one that went there.

If Clinton's trust and likeability numbers are already circling the drain while Sanders does nothing to attack her, imagine how bad it will become once the GOP starts campaigning against her. She got lucky with the Benghazi 11 hour free advertising moment, but she won't be able to brush off everything else the GOP has on her. Especially when some of it is half-true...

[MADem]

71. Sanders said he didn't run ANY negative ads--until he was caught running one.

He also said he had no superpac--until he removed that comment from his speech when it was revealed that NNFPP had dumped a half million dollars into supporting him. And then, just now, there's this nasty theft of data, this breach of security, this violation of an agreement made with the DNC...

What was that about trust and likability?

My belief that the Sanders campaign was, at least, honest, was completely shattered by that event. It was restored slightly when Sanders apologized to SEC Clinton. It was made worse when it came to my attention that his staffers didn't even TELL THE BOSS about that data breach that they initiated --that "evil" Debbie Wasserman Schultz had to break the bad news to BS because his staffers were trying to clean it up, spin it away, and not tell him. It didn't work out that way, though.

If a guy hires people who will hide shit from him, he's not a good executive.

It doesn't matter, though. This will all be over soon enough, and I can't wait for the day.

[Betty Karlson]

73. His trust and likeability numbers are not circling the drain. eom

[MADem]

74. Hers aren't either. People don't want a teddy bear in the Oval Office--they want a leader.

Someone who knows a thing or two about how to move about the world stage.

[Betty Karlson]

75. Clinton is not a leader: she's a follower.

She does nothing before consulting a poll or a focus group or a campaign donor.

[MADem]

76. Ah, now you're just flailing. She's a leader--that's why she's leading in the polls.

It's a funny position to be in, where you insist LISTENING to the electorate is a "bad" thing! If George Bush had done that, maybe we would have skipped Iraq altogether!

[Betty Karlson]

78. Seen this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251934699

[MADem]

79. Ooooh .... FACEBOOK, no less! Shall I alert the media? nt

[riversedge]

77. teddy bear. LOVE IT

[Armstead]

63. I wouldn't go into the realm of weird stuff...On that level, the Clinton's won't hold up any better

[MADem]

69. Clinton has already "gone into the realm of the weird stuff." It's not the "stuff," itself--it's

the newsworthiness of the "stuff." Given enough time, people can get used to anything, and they often do. That said, Sanders has enough "October surprises" in his history to game-change a half dozen campaigns.

[Cha]

81. They think BS has been vetted.. LOL

May The Force Be With YOU!

[FloridaBlues]

40. To me Bernie said same thing as his stump speeches

If he is elected all income inequality will magically happen than everything else gets magically fixed.
That's my take away. Perhaps more substance in that pie would have gone along way.
NY times has a good debate analysis.
I was really hoping to hear more.

[CorporatistNation]

41. Hillary is Not A Great Debater, She Is A Fine Prevaricator Though...

She is World Class in fact... Some would say PATHOLOGICAL! Landing in Bosnia under Sniper Fire... Her Mother naming her after Sir Edmund Hillary ... Who climbed Mt Everest 6 years after she was born. She is dangerously overconfident and/or Naive as she advocates for No Fly Zones over Syria, having voted for the Iraq invasion as well as "overseeing"Libya disaster.

Incompetent management over poor judgement and exceptional narcissism are a poor combination for keeping America and Americans ... out of harms way. She is perfectly capable of starting WW III if she sees no problem with enforcing a No Fly Zone with Russian warplanes being the most likely violators. As Bernie so deftly noted as he smoked her in last night's debate...

"A leader must foresee unintended consequences." Something that Hillary has never thought enough about or gotten a feel for.

[Alfresco]

42. Indeed!

[Logical]

44. Lol, you crack me up! Nt

[MADem]

50. Check back with me next November. nt

[Logical]

57. Lol, yes, get ready, she will be a terrible candidate. Nt

[MADem]

72. My mileage varies. nt

[Eric J in MN]

45. Matthew Yglesias wants the US to lack free colleges.

It's fine with him if Germany and Denmark have them. But we mustn't have them here.

It's that kind of thinking which makes him a Hillary Clinton supporter. I could have predicted last week that Matthew Yglesias would declare Hillary Clinton the winner of this debate.

[MADem]

49. Really--this is all a complex plot to deny "free college" in USA?

Pro tip--CONGRESS will make sure that never happens. "Matthew Yglesias" doesn't have to worry his pretty little head about that at all.

for the irony-impaired.

[Kalidurga]

53. Is this the kind of thinking that you are proud to support

This is a part of the world where the United States has tried to play two different approaches. One, work with the tough men, the dictators, for our own benefit and promote democracy. That's a hard road to walk. But I think it's the right road for us to try to travel.

[MADem]

55. Sure- Vox writes a decent analysis. I think they hit all the main points, too.

Did you even read the article?

I get the feeling you didn't, because you seem to be talking about something other than the post-debate analysis I posted, here.

[Kalidurga]

64. After someone shows absolute batshit crazy thinking I tend to not need to read much else

about them. That is crazy talk, it just is. I don't care who says it, that is plain nuts.

[MADem]

65. No, it isn't. And come next November, you'll realize that their analysis was on the money. nt

[Kalidurga]

66. What analysis

She just said she promotes imperialism and letting brutal dictators continue their practices as long as it serves the interests of the monied class.

[MADem]

68. Since you appear completely uninterested in responding to the substance

of the article I posted, there's no point in going on. You have an agenda that is unrelated to the article that started the thread.

[bobbobbins01]

59. Ugh, the bar these reporters set for Hillary is so low.

It basically boils down to "she didn't turn into a babbling idiot during any debate". Its all style, no substance. Of course our democratic candidates are polished, its time to look beyond the superficial and look at policy.

[MADem]

84. She can pivot from topic to topic with a background of knowledge and deep understanding.

It's not "style," it's a remarkable command of facts and knowledge of world and national affairs.

[Cha]

82. Hillary sets the bar HIGH!

[Cha]

83. KICK