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jg10003

(976 posts)
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:04 AM Dec 2015

Why I believe Josh Uretsky's explanation

I have been a computer programmer / systems analyst for 25 years, going back to mainframes with 5 megabyte hard drives. I have worked for some of the largest financial institutions, public utilities, and healthcare companies. The explanation given by Josh Uretsky is not only plausible but would be a routine and unremarkable occurrence in any organization other than a political campaign.

After noticing that the Sanders team had unauthorized access to Clinton files, Uretsky investigated the problem using a method known as a “white hat intrusion.” In order to determine the extent of a security breach the tester assumes the role of an unauthorized user. In other words, in order to determine how much of the Sanders data was compromised, Uretsky acts as if he was a Clinton operative trying to access Sanders’ data. The purpose of this is not to act maliciously (that would be a “black hat intrusion”). The purpose to discover vulnerabilities in your own system.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why I believe Josh Uretsky's explanation (Original Post) jg10003 Dec 2015 OP
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #1
You know, there actually was a short lived reality series a few years ago notadmblnd Dec 2015 #6
The OP is right--this is exactly the way bugs are documented. n/t winter is coming Dec 2015 #7
Nice metaphor you're slinging. How is a house like common IT practice? highprincipleswork Dec 2015 #13
If they broke in to your house, would you call the cops or the media? tecelote Dec 2015 #15
And if a manager of, say, a retail store forgot to lock the door one night . . . markpkessinger Dec 2015 #22
You can do that with random ranges, not specific ones. joshcryer Dec 2015 #2
Yeah. He had me until I saw what searches were run 6chars Dec 2015 #18
Yeah, they were way too specific. joshcryer Dec 2015 #19
Great explanation. I hope many read it. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #20
Sanders didn't buy his explanation. LuvLoogie Dec 2015 #3
Uretsky's failure was... Lefty Thinker Dec 2015 #14
I do to notadmblnd Dec 2015 #4
Bernie fired him. Tonight we learned two others were fired. emulatorloo Dec 2015 #5
I agree Uretsky showed poor judgement jg10003 Dec 2015 #10
Sanders threw an innocent man under the bus? mwrguy Dec 2015 #8
Sanders threw an innocent man under the bus? AlbertCat Dec 2015 #16
Thanks for posting that. madfloridian Dec 2015 #9
Other than he was operating as a Sanders operative trying to access Clinton data, you're spot on Electric Monk Dec 2015 #11
Maybe...maybe not Chitown Kev Dec 2015 #12
There is a new report saying that at least one staffer took steps to cover his tracks. pnwmom Dec 2015 #17
That was my take on it, too, until I reaw this . . . markpkessinger Dec 2015 #21
Sanders data director could've easily told he data company to do the intrusion testing themselves... uponit7771 Dec 2015 #23
 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
1. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:09 AM
Dec 2015

I broke in to your house and stole your jewelry to remind you to lock the door.

That is absurd. They copied files to a folder.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
6. You know, there actually was a short lived reality series a few years ago
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:24 AM
Dec 2015

where a former thief broke into people's homes to show home owners how easy it was.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
15. If they broke in to your house, would you call the cops or the media?
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:54 AM
Dec 2015

A much more relevant example would be, your bank opened your personal data and accounts to outside people.

Why has no action been taken for the continued incompetence of the vendor and DNC staff?

markpkessinger

(8,396 posts)
22. And if a manager of, say, a retail store forgot to lock the door one night . . .
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:37 PM
Dec 2015

. . . and merchandise was stolen from the store that night as a result, to be sure the store owner would want to press charges against the thieves. But he or she would also immediately fire the person who left the door open. Yet the DNC retains is vendor relationship with NGP VAN. In the world of corporate IT, if a database security flaw like that came to light, it would result in the immediate termination of the vendor relationship, as well as the engagement of a new vendor to address the security flaw. So why does the DNC continue to retain NGP VAN?j And, having failed to ensure that remedial action to fix the flaw was timely taken, where is Debbie Wasserman Schultz's resignation letter?

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
2. You can do that with random ranges, not specific ones.
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:11 AM
Dec 2015

And this day and age you would document with video and a clear and unambiguous trail. There's a reason two others were suspended.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
18. Yeah. He had me until I saw what searches were run
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 06:48 AM
Dec 2015

I am still unclear about whether the actual lists of all likely Hillary voters in Iowa were downloaded (I don't think so) or only a page of summary info. In the latter case, I would think the strategic benefit was minimal. In any event, not worth the fallout. Uretzky did NTSC cover himself with glory.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
19. Yeah, they were way too specific.
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 07:20 AM
Dec 2015

But I think you're wrong about what kind of data was released. It was voter file data, which NGP VAN covers their ass by saying doesn't reveal anything (and they admit it was voter file data). But voter file data it does have use when it's applied to a known voter registry that any campaign can get from the state parties for a price. So you export Clinton's >70 list (people who are 70% or more likely to vote for her) and then correlate it with the known voter list.

Yes, the voter file data contains no names of voters, you have to use the NGP VAN software to figure it out. However, if you know how the software works (which Ali Nikseresht most certainly does, because he was one of the architects), then you create a 0% list of all registered voters in the state, and then run the voter file on that list, the software would then generate a list of names in the range of the list you ran on it. As if your campaign workers were calling up each person and building a list of people. You could do it over the span of a week or two and no one would notice because you could just claim you had more people phone banking and gathering the data and manually inputting the data.

Now I don't think that they had that setup, but I do think that they were saving the data for the potential of doing something with it. And I think that Nikseresht getting escalation privileges right before they lost access indicated that they were beginning to work on making it useful. If NGP VAN didn't shut it down I think that the scandal would be far greater than it was.

The strategic benefit is twofold, labor saving on both exclusion lists, and target lists. It's obvious I'm sure to you but I'll explain for anyone reading.

If you have data on people who are 60+ for Clinton you don't have to waste time trying to convince them to vote for candidate, exclusion lists. If you have data on people who are 40- for Clinton you can focus all your energy on getting them to go for your candidate. This is a labor savings of twofold, if not tenfold since you don't have to build your own exclusion lists to begin with, you don't even have to bother going after unknowns until you've gone through the list the other campaign already made. It's enormously valuable data and the searches were clearly intending to get it.

Doing random range searches under 5 over the span of the list, then making a list named "This is Buggy" then saving them it to that list would be what a white hat would've done. (And we know they can name lists because they made a "Not Hilary" list, which I thought was amusing because they couldn't be bothered to spell her name right.)

LuvLoogie

(7,003 posts)
3. Sanders didn't buy his explanation.
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:13 AM
Dec 2015

"Uretsky acts as if he was a Clinton operative trying to access Sanders’ data." As if...!!

Except that he was a Sanders operative trying to access Clinton's data.

No, no I keed! I get it! Black is white and white is black.

Welcome to DU, but you're OP is a firing, an apology, and two suspensions behind the curve.

Lefty Thinker

(96 posts)
14. Uretsky's failure was...
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:38 AM
Dec 2015

...not getting a respected third party digital investigator to do the investigation and keep all of the data completely separate from the Sanders campaign. The documented activities of the accounts linked with the Sanders campaign are, I concur, consistent with an investigation of the severity of the access control system failure. In computer systems it is often reasonable to gauge how A can access X by looking at how B can access Y (when A and X share the same relationship as B and Y - campaign staffer and file from other campaign in this case).

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
4. I do to
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:21 AM
Dec 2015

and I'm going to take moment here to admit I was wrong. When it first broke, my first assumption was that he was a saboteur. After reading and learning more the past couple of days I have come to the conclusion that I was mistaken.

emulatorloo

(44,124 posts)
5. Bernie fired him. Tonight we learned two others were fired.
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:24 AM
Dec 2015

Uretsky did not tell Bernie he did this. Probably because he was ashamed and knew Bernie would fire him.

Bernie correctly apologized to HRC tonight for the actions of his rogue staff members.

As always, I trust Bernie's judgement. Uretsky's judgement not so much.

I don't think Josh is a bad person, I just think he was over-enthusiastic when he saw he could access HRC's early state data. And then he made a poor judgement call.

jg10003

(976 posts)
10. I agree Uretsky showed poor judgement
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:04 AM
Dec 2015

As I said, in most organizations this would not be a big deal. However a national campaign is different, there is no room for moral gray areas. Also according to his LinkedIn profile he is an experienced political operative. So while his intentions may have been limited to assessing the problem, he should have known that even glancing at Clinton's data was asking for trouble.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
16. Sanders threw an innocent man under the bus?
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:55 AM
Dec 2015

It's a little more complicated than that.

This will not fit on a bumper sticker and make any sense.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
9. Thanks for posting that.
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:55 AM
Dec 2015

I have been reading several of the techie sites, and I've been surprised I could understand a lot of it...I'm not technologically inclined.

Mostly it will fall on deaf ears here, though. Too many minds are made up. Uretsky left a trail with Bernie's name attached....who would do that for nefarious reasons?

Thanks.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
11. Other than he was operating as a Sanders operative trying to access Clinton data, you're spot on
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:05 AM
Dec 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251916203

He had a point to prove. He made his point. He then got fired for it. He's obviously unfit for inside the beltway.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
12. Maybe...maybe not
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:08 AM
Dec 2015

but it is not his job as a campaign staffer to investigate the breach, it is his job to report the breach to his superiors an to the vendor.

And he did it, what, 24, 25 times.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
17. There is a new report saying that at least one staffer took steps to cover his tracks.
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 05:53 AM
Dec 2015

If that were true would that change your mind?

http://www.ibtimes.com/bernie-sanders-campaign-suspends-2-aides-over-clinton-data-breach-2233608

According to a timeline of the entire episode, posted by Democratic Party’s chief Amy Dacey, Uretsky and three other aides were seen making more than 25 targeted searches of Clinton’s voter data. Dacey’s account also details attempts by one of the aides to delete records to hide his tracks, contradicting Uretsky’s earlier claim that he was trying to establish proof of a data breach, not to peek into the Clinton campaign.

markpkessinger

(8,396 posts)
21. That was my take on it, too, until I reaw this . . .
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:17 PM
Dec 2015

. . . from CNN's reporting:

The Sanders team, which consisted of four people, ran multiple searches in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina and about 10 March states, including Florida and Colorado. In Iowa and New Hampshire, the Clinton campaign has ranked voters on a scale of 1-100 for turnout, enthusiasm and support, the senior Democrats said. The Sanders campaign ran two searches: "Show me all the Clinton people rated higher than 60" and "Show me all the people rated less than 30." This would be a key way of knowing who Sanders should target in the final weeks before voting: Ignore those above 60, while focus on those below 30, because they are looking for a Clinton alternative and might be open to Sanders.


So, this index of turnout/enthusiasm/support, is a database field created by, and the property of, the Clinton campaign. If Uretsky's intent had been merely investigative, he could have included that field in a select query, with no particular selection criteria specified, in order to test whether proprietary fields were exposed. There would have been no need to place any particular selection criteria on that field in the query, much less to filter it in a way that would yield information that could be specifically useful to the Sanders campaign. As for not attempting to cover his tracks, I'm sure Uretsky was aware that it is EXTREMELY difficult to get around a database's audit logs (that is, it is extremely difficult if the designers of the database had even minimal competency), and thus knew better than to even try (as the attempt itself would have raised red flags). Instead, he figured that if the queries came to light, he could pass them off as having been investigative in nature. Uretsky knew the security vulnerability was there. I think he figured that since they had previously reported that vulnerability, and nothing had been done about it, he could get away with exploiting that vulnerability to the benefit of the Sanders campaign, and that if any question should arise, he could claim his intent was investigative, citing the fact that he didn't try to cover his tracks to support that claim.

In the end, it was a monumentally stupid move by a campaign staffer, and he deserved to be fired because of it. When it came to light, the Sanders campaign took immediate, appropriate and effective remedial action. And THAT fact -- i.e., that the Sanders campaign had already taken timely, appropriate and effective remedial action, is what made the DNC's attempt to 'punish' the Sanders campaign so outrageous. The DNC's and Wasserman Schultz's disingenuousness is revealed for exactly what it is by the fact that the DNC was notified of a major security flaw in October, and two months later, no corrective action had been taken. I work in legal IT for a major international law firm. In my world, if a flaw like that had come to light, the vendor relationship would be immediately terminated, because it demonstrates the vendor's rank incompetence in database design. So why had the DNC not compelled NGP VAN to fix the flaw? That's anybody's guess. Why did the DNC not terminate the vendor relationship with NGP Van? Gee, do you think it could possibly have something to do with the fact that Stu Trevelyan, the CEO of NGP VAN, was a '92 staffer in the Clinton-Gore campaign, and a White House staffer during the Clinton presidency?

Wasserman Shultz is correct that an "open door" does not provide cover for someone who exploits it in order to access something they would not otherwise have access to. But there's another part of that analogy that points a finger back at the management of the DNC under Wasserman Schultz. Think of a retail store whose manager one night forgot to lock the doors upon closing, and the store, as it happened, was robbed that night. The owner of the store will certainly want to press charges against the thieves; but that owner will also most certainly fire the person who left the door open in the first place!

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
23. Sanders data director could've easily told he data company to do the intrusion testing themselves...
Sun Dec 20, 2015, 06:30 PM
Dec 2015

... after informing them that the data can be accessed.

Also Why didn't he just filter out the Clinton data?! The DB logs show he and others searched on the Clinton data that they KNEW should've been hidden from them.

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