The relish with which Hill supporters are running around calling Sanders

[cali]

corrupt and dishonest is the single most ironic thing about this contretemps. Not to mention disgusting. It's not saying that Bernie is flawless, to defend him from the accusations that he's corrupt. His record does that. But this has been going on for a while, so it's to be expected.

One of Hillary's most widely perceived weaknesses is the broad perception that she isn't honest and that she's ethically compromised. Hillary supporters have been desperate to ding Sanders image as honest and honorable.

Hill supporters here have railed endlessly on about how she wasn't responsible for what her surrogates and supporters did in 2008 and at other times, how she's not responsible for anything Bill did regardless of her involvement. And on and on.

And unlike Bernie who has defended Hillary, Hillary's campaign pounced on this before the facts have even been marshalled. Bernie has repeatedly personally defended Hillary. No such grace from camp Hillary.

We now have DU Hillary supporters running around saying they'll work their asses off to defeat Bernie if he runs for reelection in 2018. Well, from a Vermonter, you don't stand a snowball's chance in Hell of accomplishing that, but more to the point, shame on you.

It's disgusting to watch this.

[Renew Deal]

1. Sanders flip flopped on defending Hillary long ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=769356

[MannyGoldstein]

9. No. He didn't say two things that were inconsistent.

like claiming, just to pick something at random, that marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman, er, same-sex marriage is fine.

He did, however, extend a friendly hand to Clinton and pulled it back sporting fang marks.

[Divernan]

32. Love the "fang marks" description!

[Duckhunter935]

54. very true

[MADem]

125. Yes he did. He did not support marriage equality for VT in 2006. He said it would be too divisive.

He said that he liked civil unions for VT, and he didn't consider workplace discrimination of gays a "priority."

Now, in 2015, he's trying to claim he was "always there."

Articles have been written on this topic. http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html

You shouldn't make claims that are so easily disproven.

[RoccoR5955]

121. Sure

And flip flopping is like bring up issues that they disagree on.
I don't think so.

[roguevalley]

145. he saved hrc's butt from a constant drumbeat on her emails. That

isn't around anymore but you can't expect reciprocity from her. She doesn't have it.

[zentrum]

147. That's so true.

[BlueMTexpat]

164. I believe that her 11-hour grilling before

GOPer eedjits, where she didn't falter even once and held her temper throughout, along with the fact that nothing untoward has been found after intensive investigations by credible third parties probably helped much more than a single comment tossed off in the first debate.

But yes, I am glad that he said it. It earned him lots of goodwill with me.

But a lot of that has goodwill been severely eroded due to the recent cult-like reactions by his supporters on DU and elsewhere on social media to what was clearly a fault by his campaign. Somehow, his campaign's fault (which could have been quietly resolved) has become that of the DNC and, by extension, Hillary. Such GOPer-like deflection has really turned me off. I am not alone.

We'll see whether those "Independents" and Repubbies who reportedly will vote for Bernie really make up for the Democratic base enough to get him through the Dem primaries.

[fleur-de-lisa]

2. KICK ! ! !

[peacebird]

3. Wait, what?!?

We now have DU Hillary supporters running around saying they'll work their assets off to defeat Bernie if he runs for reelection in 2018.

Sweet!

[cali]

4. Stupid autocorrect. Assets for asses

[peacebird]

5. I assumed you were being PC, but I LOVE the bit about defeating his REELECTION bid in 2018!!

"We now have DU Hillary supporters running around saying they'll work their assets off to defeat Bernie if he runs for reelection in 2018."

[demwing]

14. Bernie wont have to worry about reelection in 2018

2020 is a different story

[peacebird]

15. Love it!

[restorefreedom]

46. ba....wait for it....BAM! nt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

48. LOL

[beerandjesus]

73. Speaking of 2020... that's when Texas should be going blue

...assuming current demographic trends continue, right?

That ought to be a FUN year to be re-electing Bernie!!

[LiberalArkie]

62. Assets might be pretty correct

[upaloopa]

51. My guess is he will drop out of the Senate after a humiliating loss to Hillary.

[George II]

77. I haven't seen any saying that, yet.

[djean111]

6. Today is kinda entertaining, really.

The hypocrisy smells to high heaven. Sort of like DINO-saur droppings. Seems a bit frenetic.
And a lame attempt to pretend that the issues that affect all of us mean nothing. it is not going to work.

[Betty Karlson]

12. DINO-saur droppings. astute play on words.

[reformist2]

7. Yep. They're desperately trying to say that one staffer's "crime" somehow means Bernie is guilty too

Very unfair. Very dishonest. Very desperate.

[6chars]

8. Presidential campaigns ain't touch football

Ask Presidents Mondale, Dukakis, Tsongas, Gore, Dean etc.

When it comes to the majority of voters who don't pay much attention, the candidates with the sharp elbows are the ones who gain the advantage.

[jwirr]

71. And my friend that is exactly why voters today are so very

angry with politics as usual. And that isn't good for Hillary who is playing as if the times are still setting back in the 90s.

[6chars]

84. Not a new phenomenon

You can also ask Presidents McGovern, Humphrey and Stevenson. I believe this phenomenon goes back to around 1800 in the US.

[jwirr]

88. I think that there is another tradition as well. The good guy

takes the win: FDR, JFK, Carter, Lincoln.

[6chars]

99. actually, not such a tradition

Good guy as president <> good guy as candidate. FDR - played hardball. JFK - played hardball. Carter - indeed ran as a good guy, benefiting from post-Watergate and having the fortune to run against Ford who was also basically a good guy (and never got elected President). Lincoln - I don't know.

[demwing]

10. Disgusting, yes - but completely expected

too bad the back splash hits them right in the face!

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. I loathe Hillary Clinton, and it's all because of the actions of her supporters.

Yup. That's how shallow and intelligent I am.

[ybbor]

26. This ^^^

[Andy823]

37. I love Bernie

But can't stand his over zealous outrageous "supporters". Not all of his supporters, because there are real supporters who don't resort to the trash and bash mentality of a sub group that "claim" to support him, but are making him look bad with all their disgusting posts.

[Leftyforever]

52. I couldn't disagree with you more.... eom

[dgibby]

104. Funny, that's exactly the same way I feel about some of Clinton's supporters. n/t

[notadmblnd]

131. I hope you hold those same high standrds toward HRC supporters

but somehow I think you don't.

[Skittles]

163. ALL the swooners *SUCK*

[Douglas Carpenter]

165. I have not personally seen anything slimier in decades that can equal what

I see from many Hillary supporters here on DU.

They are going to have to learn that abusing, insulting and browbeating liberals and progressives is not going to help Hillary's campaign one little bit. But they don't seem to be learning that lesson at all.

--- One recent exchange - this was with a very, very popular Hillary supporter who was certainly not banned:

Douglas Carpenter (19,801 posts)

129. I pledge to support Hillary if she is the nominee? Do you pledge to support Bernie if he is the nominee?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=868787

-----------



131. Absolutely not
I'm a Democrat. He is NOT a Democrat. I wouldn't vote for him if you held a gun to my head, just like I would never and have never voted for a republican in my 38 years of voting. In fact in the minuscule chance that he was nominated I would never give another red cent to the party, knock doors, or phone bank for Dems.

Not in a million fucking years. And frankly, at least 50% of that feeling could be credited to his supporters who have spent the last several years smearing the shit out of real Democrats.

So no, never, ever, ever would I vote for him. Never.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=868804

[SammyWinstonJack]

70. +1000000. Yes indeed!

[libdem4life]

132. Well put. So many versions of that insufferable claim...both sides. Ridiculous.

[DanTex]

13. Umm, well, his campaign did just steal a bunch of data. So there's that.

The irony here is that it was Bernie's campaign that did the thievery, but his fans are outraged at everyone else. Even "disgusting" as you put it.

[JoePhilly]

18. These OPs are hilarious.

Their side made a mistake, and its Hilary's fault.

[tech3149]

22. Are you really stealing a $20 that is liying at your feet on the sidewalk?

Hyperbole much?

[DanTex]

25. No, but you are stealing sensitive private data even if you download it.

[Andy823]

39. Well

If you know who dropped it, or if their name is actually on it, then yes that is stealing.

[Plucketeer]

68. I seriously doubt they used what was seen.

But what's even more inconceivable is your suggestion that every time luck throws a tidbit to someone, they go to exhaustive ends to find a claimant. News Flash! Not everyone has such a squeaky clean conscience.

For that matter, IF I read right, it was Bernie's camp that first alerted the data vendor there was a hole back in October. I guess if you find something you KNOW is not yours and you tell someone about what you've found - you're in for a trip thru the guilt machine. Yeah - that seems fair.

[Laser102]

75. They did ask specific questions in their twenty four searches. And download it to separate files.

But that's not theft. That's "borrowing". Right.

[Plucketeer]

85. No.

It's investigation as to just how deeply one can violate the failing defenses. Defense failings that had been BROUGHT TO the attention of the DNC and allowed a pass. Once it was obvious that the DNC wasn't concerned, you'd do what you possibly could to document the extent of the weaknesses for your next bit of whistleblowing. OF COURSE - when you threaten the PTB with a possible marring embarrassment, they're going to put the onus ON the whistleblower to execute a CYA maneuver.

As a former whistleblower, I can tell you that after your first exposing, you start to consider the ramifications of doing it the next time. And after the second time, you have to start wondering if you really ARE doing the right thing - given that the fallout might impact innocent folks even if YOU manage to maintain your anonymity.

[gregcrawford]

91. They didn't steal anything

You are repeating something that's already been been proven to be false.

[LiberalArkie]

101. Might I recommend this Snopes article.

http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-campaign-data-breach-controversy/


WHAT'S TRUE: During a brief security lapse due to a bug on the part of third-party campaign information data company NGP VAN, four staffers from the Bernie Sanders campaign had unauthorized access to limited data pertaining to the Hillary Clinton campaign. The DNC has since pledged to restore the Sanders campaign's access to the voter files.

WHAT'S FALSE: The data were accessed over a lengthy period; the data were "exported" or otherwise extracted; the data were of high value to the Sanders campaign.

WHAT'S UNDETERMINED: What the staffers' intent in accessing the data was; whether the Clinton campaign engaged in similar activity during the 2008 campaign but was unsanctioned (as asserted in a suit filed by Sanders' campaign against the DNC); under precisely which circumstances the staffers accessed the information; the manner in which the proprietary software operated and the ease with which such data might be accessed deliberately or inadvertently.

[dgibby]

107. You should post this as an OP.

This needs all the exposure it can get. Thanks for the info! Very useful and enlightening.

[LiberalArkie]

108. It is over in the Bernie section

[dgibby]

113. Great! Thanks again.

I'm so tired of the He said/She said on DU. Nothing like FACTS. People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

[murielm99]

122. We've always said that repukes are

irony deprived. They wouldn't know irony if it bit them in the ass. I guess Bernie supporters are not all that different.

Of course I have been convinced to a long time that many of them who post here and at other sites on the web are not Democrats.

[cantbeserious]

16. The HRC Defense Team Is Out In Force Today - Damage Control Must Pay Very Well

eom

[JoePhilly]

21. But mom, Hillary made me do it!!!!

[cantbeserious]

27. Chuckles - Thank You For The Laugh

eom

[MADem]

126. There's an old saying along the lines of "You can't con/cheat an honest man."

The twenty dollar bill on the sidewalk is a lame analogy. The twenty bucks was on someone's front porch, on their property. Trespassing to get the twenty bucks is what it is--theft.

[Scootaloo]

128. Judging from the quality of output, it's money well-wasted. n/t

[BuelahWitch]

140. Yes, you'd think they'd get a writing sample from them first

before signing them up.
Unless they're all related to Debbie...

[JoePhilly]

17. I relish watching the Combustible Hair Club using fire extinguishers.

[Andy823]

40. Exactly!

It's always the same bunch no matter who they are pissed at. They make the disgusting posts, the rec up the disgusting posts, and then to top it all off, now they blame the "other" candidate because some of their guys did something wrong. I think they have a problem with reality.

[still_one]

19. While your perception has validity, I think it would be better to qualify it with "some"

[moobu2]

20. No what's disgusting is watching Bernie Supports attack Hillary and DWS

because the Bernie Sanders campaign stole Hillary's data and raise money off it too.

[cali]

23. I haven't attacked Hillary over this beyond noting that

her campaign pounced on the opportunity to paint Bernie as corrupt, but DWS is an ugly piece of work and many of us have been saying that for years.

[dgibby]

110. I've lost count of the # of petitions

I've signed calling for her removal. If she's a real Democrat, I'm the Queen of the Universe. Worst thing to happen to the Democratic Party in my memory (and I'm 70, as of today).

[DocMac]

117. Happy Birthday!!!

[dgibby]

123. Thanks! The fact that I'm still on the green side of the sod

at this age makes me very happy! I always knew I'd get old, but I didn't think it would happen so fast! LOL!

[bvar22]

137. No. The worst thing to happen to the Democratic Party...

..is the burrowing in of the conservative powers that promoted her to Chair of the DNC
after DWS refused to endorse Democrats in Florida.

Someone who campaigns for Republicans promoted to Chair of the DNC????
WTF?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251911615

[stonecutter357]

63. +1

[workinclasszero]

168. +100

[marmar]

24. I just find it amazing that supporters of a candidate whose campaign in 2008.....

......resorted to racist dog whistling and every other lowbrow tactic in the book......

Published on
Wednesday, April 30, 2008
by CommonDreams.org


The Clinton Smear Campaign Against Obama
by Stephen Zunes


Unable to find much that Barack Obama himself has said or believes that is particularly alien to the thinking and values of most Americans, Hillary Clinton and her supporters in the media have chosen instead to engage in a campaign of guilt-by-association.

Not surprisingly, right-wing media pundits and prominent Republicans have thrown their weight behind Clinton's efforts, taken advantage of the New York senator's attacks to smear the likely Democratic presidential nominee. For example, North Carolina Republicans are readying a television ad on the eve of that state's primary which includes a photo of Obama and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright together, a video clip of Wright making incendiary comments, with a voiceover telling voters that Obama is "just too extreme for North Carolina."

Clinton's guilt-by-association campaign has even moved to additional degrees of separation. For example, before tens of millions of viewers of the April 16 debate in Philadelphia, Clinton again brought up Obama's alleged "relationships with Louis Farrakhan," despite Obama's repeated and unequivocal denunciations of anti-Semitic statements and other controversial actions by the Black Muslim leader. The apparent extent of Obama's alleged "relationship" with the Nation of Islam leader which prompted Clinton's charge was that a magazine for which Obama's pastor's daughter serves as publisher granted an award to Farrakhan in honor of a successful program he had set up to rehabilitate ex-convicts.

During that same debate, Clinton went so far as to link Obama with the radical Palestinian Islamist group Hamas because the "pastor's pages" section of the weekly bulletin of the church Obama attended once included -- as part of a series of opinion pieces reprinted from various newspapers around the country -- an op-ed column from the Los Angeles Times written by a Hamas leader. Though Obama had already categorically condemned the decision to reprint that article, Clinton told the tens of millions of viewers that "we have a choice who we associate with and who we apparently give some kind of seal of approval to," such as the pastor who -- in Clinton's typically hyperbolic version of events designed to discredit her rival -- was guilty of "giving the church bulletin over to the leader of Hamas."

Hillary Clinton has even attacked Obama for having served on the board of the Chicago anti-poverty group known as the Woods Fund at the same time as former Weather Underground member Bill Ayers. Ayers, who was never convicted of any crime, is now a distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois-Chicago and served as a former aide to Mayor Richard M. Daley. Clinton apparently saw it as irrelevant that, at the time of Ayers' involvement in the Weather Underground, Obama was just eight years old and living nearly ten thousand miles away in Indonesia. ..................(more)

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/04/30/clinton-smear-campaign-against-obama

........... are running around carping about ethics.

[neverforget]

33. That's the ancient past though! Now all is forgiven and forgotten.

I especially love that a couple of her current most die hard supporters were Hillary Haters^TM in 2008.

[treestar]

81. True, that happens

Human beings are not always rigid.

[Nyan]

38. Well, they'll do and say anything to win.

That's what bothers me the most about Hillary, I guess.
As much as I love Bernie, if he engages in that sort of tactics, I'm done supporting him.

[jwirr]

74. Keep the faith and do some research on DU - a lot came out

last night that shows exactly what happened. Especially look at the explanations from IT people here on DU. We are going to be vindicated.

[DUbeornot2be]

111. Yes...

... the willingness of hrc supporters to throw ethics out the window in pursuit of the "win" is really astonishing.

[mindwalker_i]

95. The Clinton supporters support the magical (D)

They don't seem to care at all about issues, just supporting the (D). There also seems to be a strong component of supporting the (D) frontrunner. So in 2008, that was supporting Hillary, now it's supporting Hillary again. When the Snowden thing happened, they were seriously pissed, not because of the isseu but because it made the (D) look bad. With this issue of data and all the evidence surrounding it, like how the database owner has worked with the Clintons for decades or how he was told about the problems with the firewall, none of that matters. The only thing that matters is that they can say Bernie stole their stuff and Hillary is a victim of Bernie's evil and underhanded practices.

What this whole thing is showing in even more stark relief is that most of us on DU actually care about issues. We care about corruption. We care about electing people who will actually help the country and make it better for people. The people who support Hillary (and condemned Snowden) really don't care about all that. They only care about their team. If their team happened to be a child-raping priest, they would blame the child.

Personally, I have a real problem voting for corruption, and the information on this data issue shows a lot of corruption between Hillary, the DNC, DWS. That's a serious issue, and it really can't be swept under party loyalty.

[ms liberty]

167. That's it - it's all about the (D). n/t

[retrowire]

28. they're so desperate to tear down a man

that supposedly has no chance at beating Hillary.

LMAO

[rhett o rick]

135. It's about the power. And they have the resources, they might as well spend the money. nm

[Nyan]

29. It doesn't really bother me anymore

Because as far as I can see, Bernie will keep gaining ground despite all the things DNC will do out of desperation.
So I don't really care anymore (I put most of the die-hard Hillary supporters on ignore list anyway, so...).
At this rate, he might even reach 3 million donations around first primaries.
So I say keep it up! They could try, but...I think the tide has turned in our favor already, and Debbie's exposed.

[NuclearDem]

30. I'm quite entertained by Sanders supporters who had previously been chumming the Clinton email water

now all of a sudden categorically opposed to investigations into IT-related malfeasance.

Fucking Twilight Zone here.

[cali]

34. Nope, didn't do that. Her sleazy shit re the Honduran coup and many other

policy issues? Yep. I have harsh words for those items.

[NuclearDem]

45. Didn't say you did. Plenty of your fellow supporters, on the other hand, did.

This should have been an absolute non issue, but ever since Sanders decided to display once again how abjectly poorly he responds to emergencies or sudden changes--just like with the VA health system, NRN, Seattle, the Paris attacks' effect on the second debate, and the Baltimore presser--he made it one.

Did the DNC overreact? Sure, in light of the vendor's previous issues, they did, but nobody's to blame for this escalating this quickly but the Sanders campaign.

[Nyan]

43. Stop the straw man argument, please.

Great majority of Bernie supporters didn't. I certainly didn't.
Email scandal was republicans' false scandal, and we were delighted when Bernie called that out for Hillary on national TV. Surely you must have been there. It's actually Hillary camp that refuses to return the favor and call BS BS this time around.

[NuclearDem]

47. I know, I was there. I was celebrating it with most of DU's Sanders supporters.

But there have been very loud and persistent voices who never let it go, and these same ones are now trying to write this off as nothing.

[Nyan]

50. I do agree that there are a few supporters

who unnecessarily make things ugly, yes.
But that goes the same for every camp.
There are nasty people on every side, and those in Bernie camp are not particularly more or less nasty, I would say.
I echo your sentiment though, because these things tend to get ugly and I don't enjoy that, either.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

118. You have no idea how many times I get attacked for saying this

...exactly what you're saying here, at least on the DU.

This forum, unfortunately, seems to be the watering hole of these kinds of unhinged hyper-partisans.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[backscatter712]

67. Who's against it?

The person responsible in the Sanders campaign already's been fired.

Personally, I'd LOOOOOOVE to see VAN's server logs... It's not just Hillary's campaign that was vulnerable. Sanders's campaign was too.

The server logs may explain why DWS and the DNC suddenly reversed themselves and ran from this fight with their tail between their legs...

[Laser102]

79. According to the logs, the only people looking at that time were BS people.

Asked specific questions twenty four times. Download and stored the information in different files. And are now watching the BS supporters justify theft. I don't know about anyone else, I was taught appropriating what does not belong to you is a bad thing. When did that change?

[Fawke Em]

149. At that time.

What about at other times?

When you do a proper audit, you look at things other than right around the breach.

[arcane1]

151. Plus, those logs were provided by Clinton's IT guy n/t

[Fawke Em]

154. And they were EASY as hell to spot because they were named

to purposely leave a bread trail.

If I was trying to maliciously steal, I wouldn't name my queries, "not Sanders."

[The Boss]

157. Got a link to all these outputs of the logs?

[Scuba]

97. Link please. I'm pretty sure Bernie's team would love to have an independent investigation ...

... of who has accessed what in the DNC's data base.

[dgibby]

100. I believe you might have that wrong.

Most Bernie supporters WANT an investigation, as long as it's done by a neutral 3rd party and the truth comes out. I know I do.

[Fawke Em]

148. I've never said that.

I hope they hire a third-party and independent firm with data security experience to look into this.

I don't agree with the vendor being allowed to self-audit, though. That never turns out fairly.

I also believe that Hillary's server was hacked, FWIW. We know there were amateur attempts, but I believe a really bad actor has been in there. I don't know what she had on there for them to look at, but I wouldn't want a president who could easily be blackmailed.

On edit: I don't call this the "email" scandal, BTW, because it's not really about emails. The FBI is looking to see if her server was hacked and, if it was, what information did she have on that server - that may have gotten there via email - that a hacker could have access to and how serious was it.

[arcane1]

152. No Sanders supporters are "opposed to investigations". That's a lie, and a lame one at that.

Show us ONE.

[haikugal]

31. What is this, just the latest.

I can't remember them all. The Black Lives Matter frenzy, Not Enough Bernie, the constant attacks on Bernie supporters..this has been a feature of the Clinton campaign. There isn't any intelligence behind it. They're panicked. They didn't expect us and have no idea how to counter except by dirty means.

Sad to see.

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. I called this one yesterday.

I knew she would go full-on UGLY and she did. I also expect her to go full-on UGLY tonight during the debate. When she does that, she's nailing her campaign coffin shut.

People know Bernie. He's not perfect, but he's a Rare, genuinely GOOD PERSON. His heart is in the right place. He cares about people and their plight. He's authentic - zero bullshit.

The HRH fan club is running scared now. Yesterday, they just knew this would take down Bernie and just the opposite happened!

Now that it has backfired on THEIR Candidate, they're spinning as fast as they can and failing. No one, with a brain cell, can call Bernie Sanders dishonest and corrupt. HE'S THE MOST ETHICAL POLITICIAN IN DC. It's THEIR candidate whose poll numbers show her as the MOST DISHONEST AND UNTRUSTWORTHY candidate running and that includes the entire clown car!

This DNC fiasco just proved those polls are Spot-on. HRH fan club can't project what their candidate IS onto Bernie and it's driving them a bit insane.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[jwirr]

82. I cannot imagine how Hillary and her fan club could possibly

be so out of touch with the mood in the US today. They continually ignore it and everything is too little too late. She is following the leader on the issues, playing the big money game, and is very willing to play dirty tricks and is losing on all of it but does not change anything in her campaign.

First fact: Guilty people do not report a problem if they are causing it. Bernie reported this problem in October and the DNC did nothing to fix it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

92. They're out of touch with the mood of the country because

they're all exactly like HRH.

They must support:

fracking
Wall St. (I'm guessing none of them are one of "the least of these" or middle class)
Corporate Control of our country
Corporate control of our corrupt MSM (U.S. Pravda)
The TPP which is a thousand times worse than anyone ever thought it would be. We'll lose millions of more jobs.
The XL Pipeline
Monsanto and GMOs
Her IWR vote
War, war, war and MORE war! Syria, Libya, and Iran (to come, if she's elected-which is HIGHLY UNLIKELY)
No tuition free University for our kids
No Single Payer Health Insurance-Medicare for all
Allowing Wall St. to collapse our economy and the Global economy and steal $12.8 TRILLION of our tax dollars for a bailout and NOT ONE WALL ST. CROOK HAS GONE TO JAIL FOR IT.
NAFTA which cost this country MILLIONS of jobs and 60,000 factories with them.

So, yeah, they're just like her - apparently.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[LuvLoogie]

36. I like Bernie. I still believe he has integrity.

But he needs to get rid of the self-righteous zealots that work for him. But I suppose that's the danger when you haven't taken the arduous task of building a network of like-minded individuals, over decades, door to door, room to room, face to face. You get the mercenaries you pay for.

[Andy823]

44. Exactly!

Bernie should have come out right away on this and took control instead of letting his staff, who are giving him some very bad advice, turn this into a circus. Sure his base is all worked up because now "he is the victim" and that mean old Hillary is to blame for his staffers doing what they did. As long as Bernie stand back and lets this happen he will be seen as being OK with these asinine tactics, and that won't work well for him in the long run.

[zalinda]

57. Neither Bernie or his 'staff' turned this into a circus

the DNC did. If the Bernie campaign wanted to turn this into a circus they would have accused the Hillary campaign of peeking into their data back in October, but they didn't. DWS went on TV and accused Bernie of stealing data.

Almost all the tech heads whether political or non political are backing up what the fired staffer said, and said they would have probably done the same thing. It's common knowledge that when you report a bug that you have to either explain in DETAIL what happened or show proof of what happened. Most software companies want you to screen capture, or present logs or whatever their preferred method of 'proof' is, so they can fix the problem.

That DWS went to the MSM to accuse Sanders of theft is laughable to any one who knows their way around computers beyond just knowing how to 'work' them.

Z

[demwing]

58. WTF are you going on about?

"Bernie should have come out right away on this and took control" - this is EXACTLY what he did, and it WORKED. DNC went down like like a boxer on the take.

[LeFleur1]

87. Maybe...

'His staff' ...the guilty ones...did it on purpose to try to sling more crap at Hillary. From reading some posts on this site it seems exactly like the kind of thing those guilty ones on his staff would do. Do something devious, then step back and blame their competition. They seem to think enough of it will stick to give their candidate a boost. Bernie needs to take a good long look at some of his people...unless he approves.

[ish of the hammer]

160. this is something the Clintons do

why are you projecting this on Sanders?

[Bluenorthwest]

115. Odd comment considering Bernie fired the responsible party on his end, and he's the only person

involved to hold anyone accountable for any of this. The vendor that did not secure our data is still being paid to secure our data.

[George II]

41. Why do you insist on repeatedly referring to what "Bill did"? Is he running for President?

[dgibby]

103. I can't speak for Cali,

but, imo, Bill and Hil are a team, so yes, in an around about way, a vote for her is a vote for his 3rd term.

[jalan48]

42. So, this happened in 2008 only it was Obama who benefited from the "stolen" data.

Looks like a problem that appears to work only in Hillary's "I'm a victim" favor.

[Enthusiast]

49. Disgusting is the word.

Repercussions is another word.

[panader0]

53. Agree 100%

"It's disgusting to watch this."

[Duval]

55. K&R!

[watoos]

56. I channel my disgust

I just sent Bernie my 2nd donation, and bought one of his hoodies.

I live in Alabama, half way between Pittsburgh and Philly. I wear Bernies shirt and hat. I get "like the shirt" from the youngsters, and glares from the old farts.

If you're upset with DWS, and Hillary, what better way to show it?

[SoapBox]

59. It is disgusting and makes me dislike her, her campaign and supporters even more.

How much data has her campaign looked at/downloaded about the Sanders data, when the firewall was down???? Answer that DWS!

[dgibby]

114. Perfect picture of DNC and DWS dirty tricks. A photo is worth a 1,000 words!

If the DNC was a family, they'd all be guilty of incest.

[progressoid]

141. Wow,

have those connections been shown on CNN?

[paleotn]

60. grace? Hillary?

or HRC supporters? About as similar as night and day.

[NCTraveler]

61. Welcome to being a Clinton supporter.

You yourself have repeatedly connected Clinton with issues and people who were much further extended out from her campaign than these aides. Consistency please Cali.

[JackInGreen]

64. It's nauseating but par course

They needed to find some excuse but teamsmanship and any inkling would be enough, let em though. The public seems to be able to smell it a mile off.

[moobu2]

65. Only in the Twitter bubble.

in the real world everybody knows the Bernie Sanders campaign stole Hillary's data and it wasn't someone else's fault.

[JackInGreen]

78. We're from different world's then moob

The only things I've been hearing are "typical clinton dirty tricks" IRL. Milage may vary.

[Oilwellian]

133. You are quoting Debbie and her statement to Wolfie has been contradicted

Much of the reporting centered around NGP VAN's propriety software and its functionality, operative details to which most news outlets weren't specifically privy. DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that Sanders staffers "downloaded" and "exported" the data in question:

They not only viewed it, but they exported it and they downloaded it ... We don't know the depth of what they actually viewed and downloaded. We have to make sure that they did not manipulate the information ... That is just like if you walked into someone's home when the door was unlocked and took things that don't belong to you in order to use them for your own benefit. That's inappropriate. Unacceptable.

Given the proprietary and specialized nature of NGP VAN's software, Wasserman Schultz's "unlocked door" analogy was difficult to assess. CNN's coverage quoted a message from Wasserman Schultz to DNC members in which she accused the Sanders campaign of "systematically" engaging in improper data access:

Over the course of approximately 45 minutes, staffers of the Bernie Sanders campaign inappropriately accessed voter targeting data belonging to the Hillary Clinton campaign ... Once the DNC became aware that the Sanders campaign had inappropriately and systematically accessed Clinton campaign data, and in doing so violated the agreement that all the presidential campaigns have signed with the DNC, as the agreement provides, we directed NGP VAN to suspend the Sanders campaign's access to the system until the DNC is provided with a full accounting of whether or not this information was used and the way in which it was disposed.

Much of the reporting about the dispute hinged on the reliability and functionality of NGP VAN's software. Unlike with commonly used software (such as Microsoft's Excel or Word), the only source available from which to gauge the level of potential malfeasance was DNC statements in news reports. However, a statement issued on 18 December 2015 by NGP VAN about the controversy appeared to contain some meaningful contradictions to Wasserman Schultz's assertions.

Among those discrepancies was the firm's description of the data in question, and another was the use of the term "export":

First, a one page-style report containing summary data on a list was saved out of VoteBuilder by one Sanders user. This is what some people have referred to as the "export" from VoteBuilder. As noted below, users were unable to export lists of people.

The one area that was impacted was voter file data. We are confident at this point that no campaigns have access to or have retained any voter file data of any other clients; with one possible exception, one of the presidential campaigns. NGP VAN is providing a thorough report to the DNC on what happened and conducting a review to ensure the integrity of the system.

The statement reiterated that during a "brief window" of unspecified duration, a limited amount of unauthorized data was viewable. However, NGP VAN stated that the affected data was not exportable, savable, or actionable:

For a brief window, the voter data that is always searchable across campaigns in VoteBuilder included client scores it should not have, on a specific part of the VAN system. So for voters that a user already had access to, that user was able to search by and view (but not export or save or act on) some attributes that came from another campaign.

Snopes &Links

I hope you will soak in these facts before you continue to perpetuate a lie started by Debbie.

[moobu2]

139. I'm not quoting anybody but

the fired Bernie Sanders staffer himself admitted he saved information he wasn't supposed to save. He made an excuse for it but he saved it. The Bernie Sanders campaign could have straightened the entire thing out in minutes but they clammed up and started blaming everybody else.

[Oilwellian]

142. Yes, you're quoting Debbie

She is the only one who said yesterday that Bernie's camp stole the information, yet her IT person disputed that claim.

You also missed this part of what was described by Bernie's IT guy:

The senior staffer in charge of the other three was fired following disclosure of the breach, that staffer maintained that staff were aware their actions were tracked and sought to create a record of the breach.

Screenshots of the breach is completely different than, as you persistently and wrongfully claim, stealing.

[backscatter712]

66. Yep. That seems to be the spam point today.

When the truth is inconvenient, spam the Big Lie over and over and over and over and over, and maybe a few idiots will believe it.

[Tommy2Tone]

69. Well let's start with suing the DNC

Haven't seen that from a Democratic candidate before. Then again Bernie has never been a Democrat.

[40RatRod]

72. I have seen little bashing of Bernie compared...

...to the constant barrage of Hillary bashing on this site by Bernie supporters.

[Leftyforever]

76. We bash here voting record and who she takes her money from... eom

[Hepburn]

112. Telling the truth about Hillary is NOT bashing.

Lying about Bernie is.

Please note the difference for later discussions.

BTW: Rat Rods are totally cool!

[Dont call me Shirley]

80. Spot on, cali!

[seabeyond]

83. Perception/reality. They tagged Gore with being a liar. He has a kinda lie in a debate, Bush had 13.

Yet, the perception was Gore was the liar.

Perception. Ya, that.

The perception Clinton is dishonest while Sanders, the man of integrity is responsible for staff stealing. Instead of that integrity have owning it, his responsibility of it, working to resolve, he allows his people to shift the blame to Clinton. How easy it that with the perceptions allowed to stand.

Then he paints himself as a victim, and threatens 600k a day from the hard working people he is asking to vote for him.

He stays quiet. A man that wants to be president says nothing about his people stealing. A man that wants to be president says nothing to his people about shifting the blame to the victim. A man that wants to be president declares a victory with DNC when he gets his privilege back allowing a hyped animosity toward a party that has allowed him access to resources so he can even run. A man that wants to be president escalated the hate.

Perception. Ya, we need to grab that perception by the tale.

What kind of man stands quietly watching his people vilify the victim.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

86. This shouldn't even BE a battle between Bernie and Hillary....

It's between Bernie and the DNC.

[font size=1 color=grey]Which is run by Hillary's former campaign manager.[/font]

Over security issues on it's campaign database.

[font size=1 color=grey]Which is run by Hillary's former IT guy.[/font]

[lumberjack_jeff]

89. It is essentially Rovian swiftboating.

Attack the opponent's strength.

In Rove's defense, he didn't manufacture the events during which Kerry earned his purple heart.

[villager]

90. "No such grace from camp Hillary..."

There's been none. Just constant regression, projection, and acting out...

[Attorney in Texas]

93. k+r

[nenagh]

130. Oh thank you..

Still laughing...

[iandhr]

94. If the situation was reserved what would be like?

[jwirr]

98. But it is not reversed so it does not matter.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

120. No, it does

Let's be very clear here. If Hillary had to fire her top IT Staffer for sneaking looks at the Sanders campaigns' information, the pro-Hillary people would likely be saying "It's a staffer, who was fired", and all the people who love to vomit their sheer, unadulterated hatred of Hillary specifically and the Democratic party in general, would be impugning her character, and claiming Bernie is the victim.

Instead though, because it's Bernie, the Hillary supporters are saying "Yes, this needs to be investigated" and all the people who love to vomit their sheer, unadulterated hatred of Hillary specifically and the Democratic party in general, are now impugning her character, and claiming Bernie is the victim.


Facts simply don't matter to unhinged haters. It's really made me wonder just how far away some of these constantly upvoted wingnuts here are from Trump.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Fawke Em]

153. Yet, whenever the more tech savvy of us Bernie supporters mention how unsecure

and easily hackable Clinton's private email server was and how that really needs to be investigated given the types of information she was privy to as SoS, we are greeted with either yawns or people alleging that this is a Republican scheme.

It's not a Republican scheme. The FBI is investigating it and it's far more reaching than "emails."

Talk about being a "proud member of the reality based community." The reality is that the hacking of governmental officials is very real and her server didn't have the layers of security government servers do. On those, you might be able to get in the door, but you won't make it to the inner sanctum.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

156. Hillary's private email server was designated as insecure

It was never supposed to have classified information emailed to it.

And it was hooked up to a the State Department's insecure email system, that also was never supposed to have classified information on it.

The FBI, consequently, has made it clear that Hillary Clinton is not a target of the investigation. They're trying instead to figure out who was putting information that the CIA thinks should have been classified (but the State Department disputes) into the State Department's insecure email system.

Oh, and while we're at it. The State Department insecure email system is known to have been hacked twice. In fact, the only email system for which there don't appear to be any successful hacks is clintonemail.com, Hillary's server.

The fact that you're willing to carry water for Republicans is really all any actual Democrat needs to know.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[firebrand80]

96. Someone call the whambulance

Hillary has been called every name in the book. Last week she was being compared to Donald Trump. Now Bernie is called a name and it's all hurt feelings. Spare me.

[DUbeornot2be]

102. It is a common trait...

... of people who believe money is the most important issue. These corporate "democrats" rationalize their earlier poor choices and resultingly lash out at those who kept their integrity intact.

Just like the republicans.

They've sold their souls and now face the news that there was indeed another choice, one not led by greed and self-absorption...

But hey, what's a little vitriol and condescension going to hurt? It's not like we all need to get together and work to put back together what the corporate bosses have spent so much on to destroy.

Bernie Sanders! -The only BS I want to hear from DC!

[asiliveandbreathe]

106. Tks Cali - I read most articles here at DU - comments are

flying from both sides..yes, a reminder of the 2008 campaign (PUMAs) - it remains to be seen who will win..but, as a Democrat I just think we should save our energy for the true fight...against all republican candidates and policies that we have come to completely disagree with - ROCK THE VOTE!

This infighting plays into republican hands..DWS is wrong for our party - and as head of the DNC she needs to step aside - it has taken me a while to come to this conclusion..actions speak louder than words and her actions disqualify her from her position..I as much as told her in a message months ago....not that she listened, obviously...

Someone said "she has her hand on the scale for HRC"..over time this statement has earned merit....this time it is blatant..

I have not taken a side....I will support whoever is nominated to represent our Country..just as I did when Barack was nominated, then elected - and I have no regrets -

May the best person be nominated..he/she who will do the most good for the most people..

[TryLogic]

116. Why is there no report of Hillary's campaign getting Bernie's data?

Because they are clean, pure, and honorable politicians, or because it was a setup. I suggest they stayed away so the attack could focus on Bernie's campaign and his strength relative to Hillary -- his integrity.

[Uncle Joe]

119. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, cali.

[CharlotteVale]

124. Their childish deflection is nothing new. I'd expect nothing less.

[RandySF]

127. Bernie is not dishonest

But his campaign staff and many of his supporters are.

[notadmblnd]

129. Get off their asses and work to defeat Bernie, you say?

That's pretty funny, since their asses seem to be glued to their chairs in front of their monitors all day spewing bullshit like a drunk vomits after eating heavily at a party- all day every day.

They sit behind their monitors because they don't have the guts to go out and say face to face the sort of shit they spew here.

[WIProgressive88]

134. Yup. The behavior of Hillary backers here and elsewhere throughout DataGate has

certainly been an eye opener. And to those Hillary supporters prepared to "work their asses off" to defeat Bernie if he should run for re-election: I will work my ass off to make sure your candidate is defeated in the primary with flying fucking colors.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

136. Classic Rovian strategy.

Take your weakness and attack your opponent with it.

Thoroughly disgusted with her. Show you're pissed off by donating to Bernie. I created a thread earlier for this.

[ismnotwasm]

138. Yawn

Disgusting to watch on several levels. Depending on one's viewpoint of course.

[awoke_in_2003]

143. Attack people's strengths

They have learned Karl Roves' tactics well.

[Beacool]

144. Yes, how dare Hillary's supporters point out that his staffers accessed her campaign's documents.

Imagine if the reverse had occurred. The endless posts bashing Hillary and her supporters would have gone on for days.

I don't care who anyone supports, but the hypocrisy is annoying. Sanders' staffers screwed the pooch. Admit it, apologize to Hillary and move on.

[Samantha]

146. I agree with you on this, Cali

It is disgusting, and it is demoralizing to read some of the comments here on this situation. Anyone who posts derogatory comments about Sanders and his campaign on this issue has not read all of the subsequent clarifying threads. Or perhaps they have but choose to ignore the facts in favor of the fiction.

I have finally chosen my own way to deal with this.

Do you plan to watch the debates tonight?

Sam

[arcane1]

150. Reading clarifying threads is literally not their job. Facts are irrelevant.

Only marching orders matter.

[applegrove]

155. GOP trolls got on the DU and ginned up hate by sex and by race in the last few years. They get

people on both sides of an issue to spew hate to the other side. Then we had a war on race and one on women's rights. Both settled issues on the DU. You think they have not done it again during an election? Starting wars between Bernie and Hillary? Cause the GOP were not shy about push polls by telephone. Who says they would never do it on the internet?

[BeanMusical]

158. Video Compilation of Some Hillary Clinton Lies

"Shame on you Barack Obama"?

[ronnykmarshall]

159. Bull fucking SHIT

I am so fucking sick of this bullshit. Don't you fucking DARE lump me and many Hillary supporters in this spew.

What's disgusting to watch? Is is this SHIT you are spewing.

There is no fucking way I would help defeat Bernie if he wins the nomination. The same thing I did in 2008 when Hillary lost the nomination to Obama.

I'm a DEMOCRAT! I will NEVER attack the Democratic nominee ... EVEN if it's not my primary choice.

KISS MY DEMOCRATIC ASS!

[hueymahl]

161. Why do you think this post is about you?

[NurseJackie]

166. <3

[Amimnoch]

170. heh, agree and pretty much posted the same thing below.

I don't know who Cali is referring to that might have said such a thing as going after Bernie in 2018, but even though that person and I share the same candidate for support, I'd vote to hide that in a second if I got jury selected.

[Tab]

162. What flavor/kind of relish?

Where can I get some?

[Amimnoch]

169. Allow me to raise my legs off the floor to avoid the rising tide of bullshit.

First, it's Hillary's supporters, not Hillary. Please note that difference, it is quite important.

With the first point in mind, you are right that Senator Sanders did defend Hillary, however his supporters did NOT. The attacks against her and her character by his camp, and yes by you directly fully warrant the backlash against him when something like this happens. The mud has been coming from YOUR side continuously and relentlessly and in HUGE volumes since early in the summer. So please stuff your righteous indignation.

I can't speak for these other "DU Hillary supporters running around saying they'll work their asses off to defeat Bernie if he runs for reelection in 2018." I can only speak for myself, and in that election year, if Senator Sanders has a chance of losing his seat to a Republican, I'll support $$ wise, and phone bank volunteer wise to help him stay elected (the same I do for all Senate battleground states). Personally, I focus more on the House and Senate races than the Presidency.