I predict Hillary will throw Debbie under the bus tonight.

[mnhtnbb]

She will want to distance herself--publicly--from the fiasco of the last couple of days.

Anyone else agree? Disagree?

[Katashi_itto]

1. Pretty likely, Hillary will do anything to maintain the illusion a bit longer.

[CoffeeCat]

104. The Clinton camp could lose Iowa

Bernie is within striking g distance in Iowa. Only 9 points between these two camps and the frenzied Iowa caucus season just started to ramp up.

I think we'll start to see all kinds of antics.

I don't think anything is off the table. I think they'll try an array of tactics.

Expect the absolute worst.

His crowd sizes are all ready 5-7 times larger than hers. Peak Iowa rally attendance hasnt even begun and Sanders has drawn crowds of 2,000. She gets about 300, on a good day.

[Betty Karlson]

2. DWS thrown under the bus? Does that mean she will resign?

If so: I am hoping for Clinton to do the right thing - although as usual it willonly happen when all other alternatives have been tried and rejected.

[Le Taz Hot]

63. She'll resign but that won't be because of Hillary.

That will be because Obama stepped in behind the scenes in an effort to salvage what's left of the DNC.

[Betty Karlson]

74. Oh, I'll praise Obama for doing that - if and when he does it.

Who-ever removes DWS deserves credit for doing the right thing - even when (s)he does it with the speed of Clinton on gay rights.

[Samantha]

97. Obama definitely would prefer for Hillary to win over Sanders or O'Malley

As everyone knows, the passage of the TPP is extremely important to him. I recently heard O'Connell mumbling something about perhaps this should be deferred until after the election since there is currently not enough support in the Senate to pass it. Things might be different in the new Senate.

But the only candidate to continue supporting this seemingly all-important "trade" bill as Obama has would be Hillary Clinton. So if President Obama wants anything salvaged at this point, it would be his legacy issues, including The Affordable Care Act. Just my take on things.

Sam

[irisblue]

3. she should &POTUS should fire her ASAP

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

43. lol... there's no more room under the Hillary bus, which got stuck anyway with all the bodies piling up.

... but then again, why would Hillary say anything that calls her #1 fan at the DNC into question?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

53. Definitely

[merrily]

4. Nope. I think she'll go for Sanders jugular. If O'Malley is smart, he'll help Sanders on this one.

He should have been helping Sanders all along. Neither of them has anything to gain by attacking the other.

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. Why would O'Malley want to insert himself in this fight ..

at all? Especially, to side with Bernie?

That makes no sense.

[merrily]

14. Strategy. Not surprised by your comment, though.

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. What strategy would indicate tying yourself with the campaign

of the candidate caught with there hand in the cookie jar?

Do tell!

[merrily]

18. Huh? The guy who did this claims nothing was taken that advantaged the

Sanders campaign and the actions taken were taken in relation to the security of the Sanders' data.

However, even if your accusations were true, the strategy of discrediting the DNC's blatant favoring of Hillary and also of discrediting Hillary is what both Sanders and O"Malley should be doing. They both have everything to gain by doing both things and nothing to gain by attacking each other. I did not suggest that O'Malley tie himself to the Sanders campaign in any way and still don't suggest that. That was only your spin, for the purpose of trying to make my post sound silly. I was never associated with it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. Yeah. Okay. ... Nothing was taken ...

Surely, you don't believe that?

Of course, you do!

[still_one]

52. It isn't so much that, it is that O'Malley needs something to invoke more attention. If it comes

up, he won't approach it from the data breech, but from the perspective that the DNC has not given a fair shake to all the candidates

at least that is my take

[1StrongBlackMan]

59. Perhaps. n/t

[Scootaloo]

5. Well, if I were the Clinton campaign...

I'd be a little wary of a Debbie DINO rooting so hard for me. Seriously since 2011, everything Derpy Whatta Schmuck stepped in, we've been losing, and she seems just fine with that. if Clinton is her go-to, well... I'd backpedal the hell away from that.

[Kalidurga]

77. Derpy Whatta Schmuck

gots to go. And I am gonna keep on stealing this.

[NanceGreggs]

6. The "fiasco" ...

... has to do with BS's campaign accessing data they had no right to access.

If anyone needs to distance themselves, it's Bernie. Trying to spin BS's "fiasco" into HRC's problem has been a ridiculous response - but highly entertaining.

My campaign did something highly unethical - and it's all someone else's fault.

There's some great "leadership" for you.

[mnhtnbb]

8. I would disagree with you as to what is the "fiasco"

Fiasco, defined, is "a thing that is a complete failure, especially in a ludicrous or humiliating way"

To me, the fiasco was Debbie's decision to turn off Bernie's access to his data because of the breach, which then led
to the lawsuit filed by Bernie against the DNC. What should have been handled as an in-house problem with the software
vendor blew up and required the DNC to back down. That is not good for the Democratic Party in the long run. The story is out
that the DNC knew they had a problem with the software and didn't get it fixed.

We all have to keep our eyes on the prize: maintaining control of the White House AND putting more Dems in office
nationwide.

It's time for DWS to go--and I think Hillary knows it. She can use this opportunity to urge DWS to resign and Hillary comes
out of this looking like the leader.

[NanceGreggs]

13. The fiasco ...

... is the fact that BS's campaign accessed info they had no right to access.

You can yell "nothing to see here folks, move along" all you want.

The FACT remains that BS's campaign got caught doing something highly unethical - and if they didn't, Bernie has a lot of explaining to do as to why he fired someone for wrongdoing that was somehow never done.

Either BS knows his people acted unethically and acted accordingly - or he knows they didn't, but is willing to offer up a scapegoat out of political expedience.

So which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

[RoccoR5955]

28. They were not caught as you say

They in effect turned themselves in, and fired the person responsible.
How do you think that this would have panned out if the Sanders people said nothing about it?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

44. Bernie took appropriate action... unlike anything Hillary has done in similar circumstances.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

[PatrickforO]

81. He apologized to his supporters, so I think the former.

And I'm not surprised he isn't trying to cover up. I think Bernie is a very moral, straight-as-an-arrow kind of guy ethically. At least all the research I've done into his bio, voting records and so on suggest that to me. Very strongly.

Problem is, Bernie supporters are very fervent, and sometimes when things get hot, fervent supporters can do the wrong thing for what they think is the right reason. All Bernie can do in this case is fire the wrong-doers, redirect his staff along ethical lines and apologize, which it seems like he's doing.

[notadmblnd]

83. Why don't we just put it on hold and wait for the judge to determine whos behavior was unethical?

My gosh, repeating it over and over ad-nauseous isn't going to make it true. The law suit against the DNC is going forward and I feel certain that we'll hear more soon.

[NanceGreggs]

84. That lawsuit will never go ahead.

And if it did, it would be the end of BS's campaign.

The MSM coverage would be non-stop, and BS would come off as a whiny old man, pointing his finger at the DNC and yelling, "They're being mean to me!"

I think the man is too smart to put himself in that position.

[notadmblnd]

85. And this you know- is certain, how?

[NanceGreggs]

87. I told you.

Because I think the man is too smart to put himself in the position of looking like a cranky "everyone is being mean to me" whiner.

BS is way behind HRC in the national polls. When a politician who in that position starts a lawsuit alleging he is being treated unfairly by his party, he comes off as blaming "unfairness" as being the problem rather than his own failure to garner better poll numbers.

Again, I think he's too smart to allow himself to be seen in that light.

[notadmblnd]

88. Oh, well then- it must be true

[div class="excerpt".
“We are extremely pleased that the DNC has reversed its outrageous decision to take Sen. Sanders’ data,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said in a statement. “Clearly, they were very concerned about their prospects in court. Now what we need to restore confidence in the DNC's ability to secure data is an independent audit that encompasses the DNC's record this entire campaign."

A person close to the situation said that the Sanders campaign would not be dropping its lawsuit against the DNC, despite the agreement.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-dnc_5674ed13e4b0b958f656d9ee

You have a pleasant evening now.

[NanceGreggs]

89. And I'll huff, and I'll puff ...

... and I'll blow your house down!"

If BS goes ahead with this lawsuit (and again, I think he's too smart), it will be political suicide. You're assuming there is a "there" there - and there isn't.

Besides, lawsuits are long, drawn-out affairs. By the time this lawsuit ever got into a courtroom, BS will already be out of the race.

[notadmblnd]

90. Everyone has their panties in a bunch because someone on Sanders campaign accessed some files

left wide open to access. They're running around like chickens with their heads cut off screaming bloody murder. It's just strange that no one reacted like that in 2008 when the Clinton campaign illegally accessed and stole Barak Obama's data. Why do you think that is?

And if it wasn't a big deal when Hillary did it, why is it a big deal now?

The article says the Sander's campaign will go forward with the law suit. And you can bet that the DNC and Waserman-Schultz e-mails will be looked into and her partisan actions will be questioned.

As I said, let's just relax and wait for the judge make the determination as to who was unethical as I'm certain that you are just as interested in getting to the truth of this as I am.

[NanceGreggs]

91. This threatened lawsuit ...

... will never go forward.

As I said, by the time a suit like this got before a judge, the primaries will be over. In the real world, trials are not one-hour episodes of Law & Order. The discovery process alone would take months - and the nominee will more than likely be declared before that process would anywhere near completed.

The huffin' and puffin' is pure theater.

[notadmblnd]

92. It's not threatened, it was filed Friday afternoon

However, I agree, the huffing and puffing over data being accessed by Sander's campaign is pure bull pucky. Especially since the huffing and puffing didn't occur when your preferred candidate was guilty of it. But you folks must not be able to acknowledge that little fact because every HRC supporter I've pointed it out to has thus far ignored it. Including you.

[NanceGreggs]

93. The "but what about her" defence ...

... doesn't work. A smart politician knows that.

I am not a Bernie fan by any stretch - but I think he's a smart politician.

[notadmblnd]

94. I didn't say "what about her" and did not use it as defence. I asked why the different reaction now?

I'm not saying two wrongs make a right. Two wrongs make two wrongs.

I'm asking why it is a big deal now and not when your preferred candidate engaged in theft?

[NanceGreggs]

95. Actually ...

... you did invoke the "what about her" defence.

I find the fact that you don't even recognize that to be astounding.

[notadmblnd]

96. I disagree. However, I find your inability to recognize certain facts is astounding also.

So I guess we'll leave our little conversation at that.

Good night now.

[NanceGreggs]

98. As I find your inability ...

... to recognize that you used the "so what about her" defence as a fact - there for all to see.

[notadmblnd]

100. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it- it doesn't make it true

and most people here are intelligent enough to read the posts and decide for themselves- if they so choose.

Merry Christmas!

[Proserpina]

58. This^^^ in spades! Fiasco on DWS and by association Hillary

They put themselves in an indefensible breach of contract and a public scandal they created. One day before the debate.

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. This whole discussion is unsurprisingly, disappointing ...

In the rush to condemn DWS and HRC, DU:Bernie completely ignores that Camp Bernie purposely, and knowingly, violated their service agreement by exploiting the software glitch and accessed proprietary data of the HRC campaign.

[mnhtnbb]

17. Bernie fired Uretsky--his data guy--so how does that square with Bernie ignoring what his guy did?

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. I am not talking about Bernie ...

I am talking about those twisting themselves into knots to make this about DWS, or more, HRC.

[mnhtnbb]

38. I don't think it takes much twisting to make it about DWS.

DWS also made a snide comment about Bernie's campaign (not very politic of her to show her bias);
cut the campaign off from their own data (heavy-handed) that resulted in a lawsuit being filed against
the DNC; and ran to the Washington Post to air the dirty linen.

DWS has NOT been effective in getting Dems elected across the board. If she thinks her job is
to just get Hillary nominated and elected, then she should resign from the DNC and go work for
Hillary again.

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. As a Democrat, I have a problem with some of what she has done ...

But cutting off access to the DNC owned, candidate shared database, for violating the terms of service, is not among them.

[libdem4life]

55. Hey, maybe that was what was needed to fix the IT glitch...reported twice. Who knows how

much info has been transferred to silent folk at the other campaign? They didn't report it, so we automatically think they didn't access it? Balderdash.

I'm ready for a full investigation. Bernie's folks have already put their error out there. Now we know that the monopoly IT company is in Hillary's/DWS/DNC pocket? That's premeditated influence peddling...and who does this the very best?

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. Yes because everyone knows that everyone that knows someone ...

Is in that person's pocket.

[pnwmom]

69. He said this thread is ignoring Uretsky's actions, not Bernie.

[NanceGreggs]

82. It is a classic defence, though.

... intimate that your accuser is guilty of something more egregious than what you've just done yourself. The discussion then becomes who did the worse thing, and who actually DID anything becomes secondary.

My fave "excuse" thus far, however, has been: "We don't know that HRC's campaign didn't do exactly the same thing during the computer glitch."

IOW: "Yeah, so I broke into his house and took his stuff. But we don't know that he didn't break into my house at the same time. So let's focus on that."

[JDPriestly]

79. The fiasco has to do with the DNC's hirinng a company to manage all of the campaigns' databases

Knowing that the company hired people who worked on various Clinton canpaigns and even in rhe Clinton WhireHouse and then that company did not adequately protect thesecurity of the campaigns'data.

There is no evidence that I haveheard of to suggest thar. The Sanders campaign tried to access Hillary's information. The suggestion is that thefirewall went down a couple oftimes and access was given to the Sanders campaign.

This scandal is by no means over. The first breach took place in October.

Debbie Wasserman Scholtz. Has done a terrible job as DNC chair. She needs to be replaced.

[RKP5637]

7. DWS makes the DNC look ridiculous and out of control. This could have been handled

in an amicable manner without a spectacle of the democratic party out of control. I say this as one who likes both Bernie and Hillary. My bottom line is I want to see a democrat in the WH in 2016. Spectacles such as DWS/DNC did will be used against the democratic party as incapable of even protecting their own data.

[mnhtnbb]

9. I agree. You posted while I was writing basically the same thing! (#8)

[1StrongBlackMan]

10. I doubt she'll toss DWS under the bus ...

Rather, I suspect HRC (along with the rest of the Democratic players) had a lot to do with the deal to restore access to the database.

[BlueMTexpat]

21. I suspect the same thing. eom

[joshcryer]

25. Yes.

But don't think DWS earned any favors with her stunt. If Brian Fallon is any indication the entire Clinton camp is probably livid at what she did.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. LOL ...

Probaby because they could anticipate the complete denial and conspiracy theories that are now evident among some of Bernie's followers.

[joshcryer]

36. Unlike stupid social media and web forums...

...real life campaigns and organizations have to do real life things, like file court documents, hire lawyers, go over precedent, read legal jargon, and handle things civilly.

Don't think for a second the Clinton camp wants or sees any good from the DNC being embroiled in a lawsuit and legalese with the biggest contender in the race. It has party fracturing potential. Scandal beyond which we've not seen since 1972.

(And yes, the pretzel logic and contorted conspiracy theories would play in to that.)

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. +1 ...

You do DU:Bernie much good ETA: and the reason I am able to say "SOME of Bernie's supporters. "

[joshcryer]

41. I have met none of these types IRL.

Weaver's lunacy is the first time I've encountered it "in" the campaign which is why I have called for him to be fired. He's lost it. On my campaign page we're not losing our minds. We talk more about knocking on doors and registering voters than we do about caring about social media identity nonsense. Hell there was talk about knocking on doors even during this whole fiasco (with of course calls to fire DWS but, hey, I'm open about that, too).

[pnwmom]

70. Agreed. HRC couldn't have been happy about how this was handled. n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

45. Yeah, after this whole sordid affair blew up in HRC/DWS' faces. How magnanimous of Hillary!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

[1StrongBlackMan]

47. It has only blown up ...

In the eyes of Bernie followers. The rest of the world sees things differently.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

48. That may be, though I doubt that very much... guess we'll just hafta wait n see. Good luck to your candidate tonight.

[1StrongBlackMan]

49. I have no doubt O'Malley will hold his own ...

I just hope he doesn't involve himself in this fight ... as a Bernie follower has advised as being a good strategic move.

[reformist2]

11. Nope. The Clinton crew are thick as thieves. They will stay loyal to each other.

[merrily]

20. Agree. She has nothing to gain and everything to lose by throwing L'il Debbie under the bus.

[mnhtnbb]

22. See, I guess I want to be optimistic that at some point Hillary will recognize that Debbie

has not been effective as DNC chair and has to go.

Keeping the White House is important--but it's critical that the Dems need to take back the House. I don't know how anyone can claim that Debbie
has been helpful there.

[magical thyme]

71. L'il Debbie prolly has some serious dirt on Hillary

that's how those kind operate.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

46. ^^ DING! DING! DING!... we hava winner! ^^

[sufrommich]

19. That won't happen nor should it.nt

[mnhtnbb]

23. There's a very interesting discussion of how the tech world is viewing the breach over here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251915620

[joshcryer]

24. Clinton will say it's between Sanders and the DNC and move on.

I don't know if that would qualify as throwing DWS under the bus or not.

[Buzz Clik]

27. +1

But, Hillary has other things to think about 24/7...

[Buzz Clik]

26. My guess is that this issue won't come up, and Wasserman won't be mentioned.

Any takers?

[joshcryer]

29. It'll come up but no one will bite.

Clinton might even use the opportunity to make a "tired about hearing about your damn emails" joke.

Clinton has no dog in this fight and Sanders has integrity.

[Buzz Clik]

50. That was a pretty rational reply

You must be new.

[JoePhilly]

66. Sounds about right.

[magical thyme]

72. Clinton's people have already put their dog in the fight, elevated it to "criminal"

I'd love to see her make it a "tired about you damn emails" but I don't think she has the temperament for that.

And I don't think she has the self-discipline to not bite, given the opportunity.

She thinks she smell blood. Given the opening, she'll go whole hog.

[joshcryer]

75. You were wrong.

[LuvLoogie]

76. Many in The Revolution are affected by insular myopia.

[magical thyme]

99. I sit corrected

It looked like the 3 of them made a pact to not be the GOP. Smart move on all parts!

[randome]

64. Agree completely.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Jester Messiah]

32. Well, traditionally...

That is the fate reserved for minions who fail.

[HereSince1628]

33. why? first there's still a spot of high ground

ignoring that Sanders fired the guy who did this, the Clinton camp gets to claim Sanders campaign and Sanders himself are dirty campaigners, ergo So Sanders is not only a grumpy old white racist now he's a hypocrit and guilty as hell...

Second, there is always the vendor to leave hanging out him-bare-assed, wits, nekid butted, for everyone to scorn and shame. Being an old hand and long-standing member of the team, he'd probably be glad to do that to get another contract to handle things like the DSCC and the DCCC databases.

Third, the ugliest enemy you can have in life is an angry, scorned, 'Mean Girl'. Even 'Mean Girls' don't want 'Mean Girls' trolling their 6 and turning over earth and sky for clues on how to satisfy their need for revenge.

[Chan790]

35. I agree because she lacks character.

DWS will respond by doing the same Monday because she also lacks character.

They honestly deserve each other...maybe they can be running mates; it would be awesome, I'd be able to not vote for both of them at the same time!

[DonCoquixote]

40. oh to heaven yes

Furthermore, even though I am proud to have been kicked out of the Hillary group if she finally axes Debbie, I will be among the forst to praise Hillary, as Debbie is a cancer.

[karynnj]

51. A smart way to do that is to replace DWS with Howard Dean

Dean is a surrogate for her, but Dean has the respect of the bulk of Democrats on the left. He knows the job and did it very very well for the 4 years he held it.

The question is whether he would want it. The one time (in late 2013) I saw Dean at a local Burlington event, the most animation I saw in his conversations with the people in line before me were about how to get people elected -- not those where people asked him to run.

If the President - and the three candidates all were ok with Dean -- it would seem a move that could help the party. I have not read everything out this morning, but it really sounds like DWS went beyond the facts in her public comments and managed this whole situation badly. That - in addition to her work on the debates - have made her toxic to a large segment of Democrats.

[libdem4life]

57. Then start breaking the monopoly of Hillary's clones at the IT company. There has to be more

than one firm that does this. But probably not this cycle. I mean, they have my bank account as an auto-deduct. Guess that's probably no worse than people's credit card numbers.

I wonder if, since they turned it off on a dime, it could be put in a safer place now that Sanders has the info. It does not put him in control of it, clearly. That's what is scary. The IT company could have written all kinds of back doors built in for "their gal". No IT expert, however.

[coyote]

54. If it's politically expedient, then YES!

[polichick]

68. True - but she'll still have a place in the admin.

[Proserpina]

56. I think it's too late for sacrifice--the great God of Public Opinion will not be appeased so easily

and since Debbie and Hillary are like Siamese twins, it would be futile to try to just 'sacrifice" the one. The other would be mortally wounded, as well.

No, it's not a pretty situation for Hillary, even if she had nothing to do with it. And Bill cannot save her, Bernie sure won't stretch out a helping hand any more, and who else does she have to depend upon? Rahm Emanuel, the Chicago fiasco staring indictment down? Warren Buffett?--he's not that kind of "friend". Blankfein, Summers, Geithner, Soros?

No, the 1% will not be riding to the rescue. Nor will the 99%, whose muddled opinions are not that muddled when it comes to ethics. The foreigners will not touch it, either.

I predict a huge increase in the Unfavorable ratings! The rest will fall out as it may. Debbie and Hillary are both rock-hard stubborn, so they will do it the most painful way possible, the way sure to leave indelible marks, on them and on public opinion.

Very clever of Obama to duck out to Hawaii...out of the crossfire!

[Hepburn]

60. And hopefully if this happens then the former BFF DWS will then...

...reveal HRC as the architect of the crap that went down yesterday.

[Le Taz Hot]

62. Nope.

She doesn't work that way. She'll feign innocence (which, btw, she's never been able to convincingly pull off) while, wide-eyed, wondering why that mean Bernie staffer hacked into all her information. All without a hint of irony.

[restorefreedom]

65. she can't. dino debbie knows waaaaay too many secrets

if she is betrayed, who knows what she could spill. they will keep her close and slowly work to undercut her power while keeping smiles on their faces.

its the third way way.

[randome]

101. In your world, EVERYONE is being blackmailed.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[restorefreedom]

106. not everyone.

just the obvious ones.

[backscatter712]

67. I think that's likely. DWS has shredded what's left of her credibility.

Can anyone say she'll be the impartial referee of the Democratic primaries with a straight face anymore?

She'll be gone. All it'll take is some discovery in the Sanders lawsuit against the DNC to turn up some skeletons in the closet.

Hillary's gonna make distancing noises, then in a few days, DWS will most likely resign. The stench of corruption is overwhelming, and they're afraid too many plebes will take notice.

[MisterP]

73. in their mind they didn't do anything wrong and the whole situation performed brilliantly

they seriously expect a 5-point boost from "showing up that little thief Sanders and his cultists"

[JaneyVee]

78. Prediction: You were wrong

[Thinkingabout]

105. Exactly, there is not a need to throw DWS under the bus and Sanders apologizing was the best

for him, he said he would fire more if there is evidence of other wrong doing. He gained some respect for apologizing, he is not running away from the problem.

[notadmblnd]

80. I think she's in trouble.

should get to bed so I can watch the new shows in the morning

[longship]

86. Meh! It was a flash in the pan.

Bernie apologized. Hillary said that was okay.

It's done.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

102. I predict Hillary will name DWS as her Chief of Staff

Hey, Barack named Rahm, so anything's possible.

[HassleCat]

103. Disagree

These connections within the mainstream Democratic Party are important. I think most of Clinton's supporters like what the DNC is doing, and they like the way it does business, and they like the party chair.