I had been on the fence as to who to vote for

[awake]

After hearing HRC stand up to the RePucks grilling her for 9+ hours I began to lean her way but after the heavy handed way that the DNC and DWS have handled things today I am not sure anymore if she can be trusted.

[JoePhilly]

1. cough BS cough

[awake]

3. NO BS

I had almost decided that I could back HRC but tonight I am no longer sure.

[JoePhilly]

5. Sure ... a Bernie staffer swiped Hillary's data, and you blame ... Hillary.

Bullshit.

[awake]

10. a Bernie staffer (who has been fired) fucked-up not Bernie

To Lock up all of Bernie's voter records is not fair play

[JoePhilly]

11. Bernie has to get his staff under control, no?

Does he have anyone else who would take similar steps?

[Number23]

55. Isn't it precious to hear "the buck stops here!!" crowd that called for Obama's head every chance

they got for every slight -- real or imagined -- now do the "leaders can't be responsible for their staff" line??

I personally don't think that Sanders should be penalized for the incompetence/stupidity/corruptness of his staff (though he does bear some responsibility for hiring them) but I just find all of this dishonesty and hypocrisy vomit inducing.

[JoePhilly]

66. I'm enjoying watching the Combustible Hair Club run around ...

... with fire extinguishers.

They knee jerk into a frenzy on an almost daily basis ... and now they're upset its happening to them.

[Andy823]

18. I agree

It was his staffers who did this, but blaming Clinton is insane. Bernie should have gotten on top of this as soon as he found out. He should have had a press conference and told the world he would fire everyone involved in this, and he should have said he would do everything he can to help in the investigation. He should also stop taking advice from whoever is telling him that putting the blame for his staffers dirty work on Clinton is a good idea.

[artislife]

70. Like Hillary did in 2008? nt

[Historic NY]

34. Stealing isn't nice either.......as a matter of fact its illegal

Bernie hasn't even come out and said one word. But then again people always look for excuses. But they already picked their side.

[lunamagica]

54. And how is it Hillary to blame for this?

[awake]

56. See post 40 below and my reply post 49

The Blame is with DWS and the DNC

[daleanime]

39. Hey, dude, you dropped a $100 bill.....

If it on the ground months later you're going to call someone a thief for picking it up?

But don't worry, you'll have your chance to explain your side....in court. Until then, have a lovely evening.

[Vincardog]

45. Bernie's campaign reported a data breech to the DNC in Oct. Last week they noticed

The breech had not been corrected. When they made inquiries into the extent of the breech and reported the results to the DNC;
Instead of DWS disciplining the VENDOR RESPONSIBLE for the problem, the DNC went ape shit on Bernie's campaign.

The vendor responsible was the same one who installed Hilary's email
, and the one who was Hill's DP director last cycle.

Who would you blame?

[valerief]

50. Debbie's vendor gave Clinton data to ANYONE WHO WANTED IT. nt

[BlueCheese]

25. Why does that make you blame Hillary?

This has to do with Sanders and the DNC.

[Roy Ellefson]

38. same boat

same boat...thought I could hold my nose and vote for her...but now, no way

[leftofcool]

2. Oh lookie! It's another blame Hillary for the Sanders campaign theft

[awake]

6. I am blaming Hillary for not stoping DWS and the DNC form rigging the playing field.

[JoePhilly]

13. Hillary does not control the DNC sparky.

If she was able to control the DNC, you'd be screaming bloody murder.

Bernie's staff fucked up. That's what happened.

[AgingAmerican]

16. Her former campaign chair does

[JoePhilly]

20. You do know what the word "former" means, don't you??

If Hillary would use that relationship to obtain and outcome ... you'd SHIT A BRICK screaming bloody murder.

[AgingAmerican]

53. It means Hillary has the DNC doing her dirty work for her

In an official capacity. Genies out of the bottle! All DWS horses and all DWS men, can't put the DNC together again!

[seabeyond]

15. Amazing, isn't it? I sit here baffled how this twist can intellectually be made. Nt.

[Andy823]

22. You are not alone

I have seen some pretty crazy spinning going on around here, but his one takes the cake. Bernie needs to clean house and get rid of staffers who are giving him bad advice. Blaming Clinton for this is going backfire on him if he does not do something. He is getting some very bad advice if you ask me.

[seabeyond]

26. It already has backfired and the stupid ass misstep of filing a law suit in the nail is the coffin.

Democrats who have been working to build this party for a lifetime watch this man strut into our party, insult us, make demands and then files a suit, creating a chaos nothing short of the baggers.

[Number23]

57. Bernie has needed to get on top of alot of things that he hasn't, the hatefullness of far too many

of his supporters to the TRUE Democratic base being one of the biggest ones.

He hasn't gotten on top of any of that and I've never understood why. A pattern is definitely starting to emerge.

[BooScout]

31. Scooch over...

Is there room on the bench for me?

[seabeyond]

42. The benches are getting filled up, looking at this spectacle. But, there is always room for you. Nt.

[Lil Missy]

4. HRC campaign had nothing to do with it. Her campaign is the victim of THEFT, 25 times!!!

Her campaign has every reason to be furious about this theft of proprietary data.

[JoePhilly]

8. Bernie supporters vilify Hillary ... then use that as a rationale to steal info from her ...

... and when caught ... they blame HILLARY for what they did.

Insane.

[Lil Missy]

32. Oh yes, but not unusual to see delusional thinking from that camp.

Most of them are completely and utterly irrational when it comes to anything Hillary. CT's abound. Bernie farts rainbows.

[Ino]

64. Clinton's dirty fingers are in this, make no mistake.

http://bud-meyers.blogspot.com/

Let's also look at NGP-VAN Inc — which was created by the merger of NGP Software (NGP, founded by Nathaniel Pearlman) and Voter Activation Network (VAN, founded by Mark Sullivan). NGP-VAN provides the integrated campaign technology platform to Democratic campaigns, labor unions, and non-profit organizations.

Nathaniel Pearlman was chief technology officer for Hillary Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign. Pearlman supervised the campaign’s IT director Bryan Pagliano, who later set up and managed Clinton’s private email server during her tenure as Secretary of State. Pagliano was the one who pleaded the Fifth Amendment in a closed-door hearing at the House Benghazi Committee. All roads lead to China Clinton and/or the DNC and NGP-VAN
(snip)
It seems very coincidental that, right on the heels of Bernie Sanders' campaign getting two major endorsements (from Democracy for America and the CWA union), something very suspicious happens — a "data breech" — and the timing couldn't have been any more perfect for the Clinton campaign, because it's also just right before the next Democratic debate — and just when Sanders is also leading Hillary in New Hampshire by 10% in the polls. A quinky dink? An unfortunate coincidence for the Sanders campaign? Or was it a very well-laid out strategically planned event?

Add to this the fact that Debbie Wasserman Schultz was Hillary's 2008 campaign co-chair, and you have a perfect set-up. The DNC represents the Hillary Clinton Party, and all its doings are to her benefit -- the lack of debates, the crappy dates for the debates, and this open-door breech... which, by the way, was reported ONLY by Sanders.

IMO, Clinton has been accessing Sanders' files for some time. Let's tear her servers apart, again.

[Lil Missy]

65. I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

[Betty Karlson]

67. Ever since Sanders' campaign first reported a breech (October) Clinton's numbers went up...

How is that for abuse of proprietary data?

[MohRokTah]

7. I don't believe a word you typed. eom

[awake]

23. Well I have yet to donate or support anyone

I truly have been on the fence since HRC testified at congress, but with todays events I am truly rethinking whether I could support her and being call a lier by one of her supporters is not helping. I started this to share my thoughts, I know many on this site have made up their minds and strongly support one side or another, I am feeling that I must not be the only person who has yet to decide and felt it could be helpful letting "the powers to be" know that the actions of the DNC and DWS are turning me off.

[MohRokTah]

30. I'm not buying it. eom

[awake]

44. Well I am not selling any thing to buy

I am sure though that I am not the only undecided voter who feels like it unfair to lock up ones own records the day before a debate.

[MohRokTah]

46. It seems to me you are trying to sell something that I won't buy into. eom

[KingFlorez]

9. Seems like you're voting for Sanders

[tishaLA]

12. I can't blame Sec Clinton for this. I do, however, think DWS and Sen Sanders

are being unnecessarily obstinate about this for whatever reason(s). Both DWS and Weaver need to take deep breaths, drink some chamomile tea, pop a xanax, and bring this thing to a conclusion fast!

[ismnotwasm]

14. +1000

[Chitown Kev]

17. +10

I'm kinda meh about Clinton and Sanders but I do kinda sorta loathe DWS

[tishaLA]

21. Yeah I sort of loathe her too. I saw a thread referencing Axelrod's comments about this

and I thought, you know, why couldn't somebody like Axelrod have the job? At least he has a vision and is a smart strategist. Or even if it's not Axe himself, other people in the party are far smarter--and far more competent--than DWS is.

[wildeyed]

29. He is too smart to take the job n/t

[BlueCheese]

27. This is so right.

There's no way this should have escalated to this point. Both sides could have tamped this down. Now the Sanders campaign is actually suing the party. What the hell?

[peacebird]

41. Sanders has to sue, DWS broke the rules of engagement. Based on the agreement signed

there should have been 10 days between being alerted to a breach and stopping access.

DWS stopped access in one day.

[Jester Messiah]

48. The "party" had it coming.

There was no other recourse.

[Number23]

58. Exactly. It's INSANE. And the fact that some here are trying to spin this insanity into some noble

quest that Sanders is undertaking makes it even more so.

How the hell anyone can think that a Dem candidate for president suing the DNC is a good thing for Democrats is a logic fail too extreme for words. And anyone that thinks this is good or makes Sanders look good is just proving how separated from reality they are.

[Kentonio]

61. Was it good for the party

That the DNC went public over something that could have been resolved internally without any press attention? Was that a clever and wise move that helped the progressive cause?

[Number23]

69. No it absolutely was not good for the party. It was an idiotic thing to do

exacerbated by Sanders' equally idiotic decision to sue.

[jwirr]

71. Since DWS went directly to the press with out contacting

the Sander's campaign - are you saying that he should not have responded?

[wildeyed]

28. Chamomile tea and Xanax all around!

My treat!

[Metric System]

19. So Hillary can't be trusted because Sanders staffers accessed her campaigns' info?

[wildeyed]

24. Hint:

DNC and DWS are not the same as HRC, regardless of what they say here

[awake]

37. Well then I would like to hear HRC stand up for fair play

and ask that the DNC reinstate access for Bernie to his own voting records.

[peacebird]

43. Sadly she did not. Instead her campaign said they lost millions $$ in data

[wildeyed]

60. Perhaps Bernie should 'fess up about his own campaign's

dirty deeds? He blatantly STOLE her voter research. Why isn't he being honest about what happened? Why is he not on the TV apologizing and offering to cooperate fully with the DNC to figure out the extent of the breech? Sounds like that is why he got his access yanked. Not honest about what happened and then refused to cooperate when they wanted to bring in a third party to assess. But whatever. Clinton is the injured party here. The beef is between Sanders and the DNC. She is not required to do anything.

People around here..... Oh those EVIL party flunkies, so dishonest, we need new people to clear out the corruption!!!!! And then, right out of the gate, their team does something slimy and it is STILL somehow everyone else fault. The hypocrisy is blinding.

[WillyT]

33. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Lil Missy]

35. I'm sure she'll do just fine without you. n/t

[JaneyVee]

36. Hillary did nothing wrong.

[Nonhlanhla]

40. I've also been on the fence

I like both candidates and my state's primary is late, so I've not been concerned about choosing. But I have to say that Bernie's decision to sue the DNC after his campaign people messed up and they got penalized for it, is not sitting well with me. And Bernie supporters blaming Hillary for this is just making me angry.

Of course the DNC leadership favors Hillary. She's been a Democrat since forever, and one of the most significant individuals in the Democratic Party. Bernie Sanders has been a Democrat for about 5 minutes. They should not have favorites, but really you cannot blame them if they prefer one of the most significant and longstanding Democrats over a man who has never shown much loyalty to the Democratic Party and who only joined it AFTER he decided to run for president. But their personal preferences aside, the DNC would not have suspended the Bernie campaign's access to the files if the Bernie campaign did not access files they had no right to access. And that's just a fact. What Bernie should have done, is simply to work with them, admit the wrongdoing, cooperate with the audit, and fire the guilty individuals. I have no doubt that he would get his access back quickly if he does that. But instead he decided to sue the leadership of the party he's been a member of for a very short time, and sow the seeds of further division and discontent, making the party more vulnerable against the GOP.

I like Bernie, and I know he had nothing to do with this data breach, but the kind of leadership he is showing in the aftermath of this mess is not exactly inspiring. And he is certainly not showing any inclination of wanting to earn the loyalty of the Democratic Party whose leadership he would like to claim.

And for people to blame this on Hillary is just beyond belief. I am absolutely astonished at the blind rage launched against Hillary for the Bernie campaign's mess.

So I now lean strongly in favor of Hillary. I will most certainly vote for Bernie in the general if he is the nominee, but if they are all still in the race by the time my state's primary rolls around, I will most likely cast my vote for Hillary.

[awake]

49. Thank you for this thoughtful reply

I am not happy that this has gotten out of hand. I wish DWS had handled this behind the closed doors and not gone public.
You make a good point that the problem is with DWS not HRC it just seems that since DWS is so clearly trying to help HRC that I felt HRC was involved and you are right that I need not to go there. thank you again for your reply.

[PeaceNikki]

51. Very well said.

[Number23]

59. An intelligent, informed response. Thanks for that.

I like Bernie, and I know he had nothing to do with this data breach, but the kind of leadership he is showing in the aftermath of this mess is not exactly inspiring. And he is certainly not showing any inclination of wanting to earn the loyalty of the Democratic Party whose leadership he would like to claim.

And for people to blame this on Hillary is just beyond belief. I am absolutely astonished at the blind rage launched against Hillary for the Bernie campaign's mess.

Exactly.

[wildeyed]

62. Good point.

And thoughtful reply.

I like Bernie, and I know he had nothing to do with this data breach, but the kind of leadership he is showing in the aftermath of this mess is not exactly inspiring. And he is certainly not showing any inclination of wanting to earn the loyalty of the Democratic Party whose leadership he would like to claim.

The office of President of the United States comes with the most blinding and intense scrutiny of almost any job on the planet. He is not managing this kerfuffle with much leadership. It's all been spittle and rage directed at DNC, but has there been any acknowledgment of his own campaign's wrong doings?

I kinda like Sanders, too, and of course I will support him if he wins. But I just don't see him as a leader on the international level.

[vorgan24]

47. This is the way I see it...

When the going gets tough, and the odds are against her, Hillary digs in and deals with the issues in front of her, no matter how distasteful the people on the other side are being.

When the going gets tough, and the odds are against him... Bernie shouts "LAWSUIT!"

[achsadu]

52. No connection to the elections

What happened today (or yesterday) has very little to do with the quality of the two candidates. Yes, Hillary is an incredible learner and is as ready as nobody else for the presidency; but she's flawed and people by and large don't trust her for many reasons - we can all count them and discuss them ad nauseam. The point is that Bernie is perceived as honest, straightforward and totally committed to the middle class and those who are in economic distress (which makes that a majority of Americans). I think that there is a better chance for democrats to go with him and not Hillary. I believe that people will think more than twice before voting for her (especially if they're independents) because of all the various real and made up scandals about her. Hillary comes with very heavy baggage and it would be hard for people on the fence to go for her.

achsa.

[in_cog_ni_to]

63. There's a reason polls show her as the most dishonest and least trustworthy than EVERY CANDIDATE

Running - including all the insane nut jobs in the RW clown car. She's done a LOT of distasteful things over the years, but doing this to Bernie Sanders was one of the lowest, most evil and nastiest. It was such a DESPICABLE, Rovian move and worthy of those in the clown car.

If you can't win an election without dirty tricks, untruths about your opponent and flat-out blatant LIES, get out of the race, but don't try to destroy the most ETHICAL AND HONEST politician in DC. And she can take DWS with her.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Nonhlanhla]

68. "Doing this to Bernie"

WHAT did Hillary do to Bernie?

HIS campaign went snooping. The DNC suspended access to the data pending an audit.

HE sued the DNC.

WHAT did Hillary do?

[awake]

73. Well I am not Bullshiting

I had my concerns about HRC until I heard how well she handled herself in front of congress when I started to think that I could back her, yesterday's Hevesy handed DNC tactics tuned me off and I was ready to throw in the towel but thanks to a DUer who posted above I have realized my beef is with DWS & the DNC not HRC. So as much as you my not want to hear it my concerns are not Bull Shit and not everyone has made up their minds. If you would like someone to believe in your canadate then calling them a BullShiter will not help.