2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAbout that DFA Bernie endorsement. Why did I know the following without reading the article?
"The DFA endorsement comes after the group held an online vote"
Doctor Dean supports Hillary.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Hillary supporters had every opportunity to organize and win that poll, but they didn't.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Out of those who were DFA members before this poll was launched, 78% voted for Bernie. Kinda throws that whole "But they just created multiple email addresses" thing out the window.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I voted in it, I voted for Hillary.
There does seem to be an enthusiasm gap, we knew winning this would be great.
We didn't win it.
Sure the race isn't over but this one does sting a bit.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)If true, that's a microcosm right there.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)This is a win for Sanders.
I know I am going to get "concern troll" here but if he does end up being the nominee, we all better be ready to work out buts off as this would be a very different election.
This is true for either candidate to some degree.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)post like yours. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I've seen stories since the Draft Warren days that indicated that, if DFA had its own way, instead of going to its members, they would have endorsed Hillary.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Which was directed to Jim Dean asking to endorse Bernie.
merrily
(45,251 posts)One was an internal memo that got leaked suggesting Warren should run in the primary to make Hillary a better candidate. This was well before Sanders's informal announcement.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_for_America
And this is the petition drive addressed to him: https://www.change.org/p/democracy-for-america-endorse-bernie-sanders-in-the-2016-election
Maybe that's the source of my confusion... that or 100 other things...
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)Bernie would have stayed out. He was watching to see if someone was going to run supporting the left wing of the party.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)was that I believed that DFA members who actually have contributed financially to the organization for more than this election cycle should have been the only ones able to vote. I am not really sure what the qualifications were. They were likely spelled out somewhere but I didn't see them. It would be interesting to see a breakdown, if such is possible.
I am one of DFA's earliest members and I support DFA with a monthly contribution, in addition to contributing to candidates DFA endorses (I won't be tossing any extra funds in for Bernie though, unless he is the GE candidate). If my vote for Hillary was cancelled out by some newbie who has never contributed to DFA, I believe that I have a right to be somewhat pissed.
If those who voted for Bernie begin contributing to the organization - if they haven't previously done so - that's great for all Dems, IMO. DFA does good work.
Howard himself is still a Hillary supporter and continues to campaign for her. In the long run, I don't believe that DFA's endorsement of Bernie will matter as much as Howard's presence on the stump for Hillary.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)The result was 77%. Note that this isn't just financial backers. But it's something.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The politico story says it was a membership vote. Most of the members who did vote voted for Sanders.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)I certainly knew that Howard is not "in charge of" DFA now. I met Howard in person when he was DNC Chair.
But I have been with DFA since it was Dean for America. I didn't simply jump on the bandwagon for this election. I will continue to be a financial supporter for as long as DFA exists, no matter which candidate it supports in the primaries.
Can the majority of those who voted for Bernie say the same?
I am, however, very happy to note that in my email from Charles Chamberlain announcing the results, I have the option of not receiving emails about Bernie even though I will continue to receive them about other issues/candidates.
I will exercise that option. If Bernie makes it to the GE, I will reconsider. But for now, I have enough political spam.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Hillary supporters are in for a rude deja vu when primary votes are cast....
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Could you actually vote more than once?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Response to NCTraveler (Reply #9)
Eric J in MN This message was self-deleted by its author.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)You would have needed to use a VPN (or use a mobile phone + broadband connection)
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)Let me switch candidates, but not vote again.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I have two good emails: personal and work.
But, as this was personal, I didn't double dip with my work email.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)and I also only voted once. Never crossed my mind to do anything else. IMO it is a roundabout way to call those who support Bernie underhanded and unethical.
merrily
(45,251 posts)They could have had an IP number system or a cookie preventing multiple votes. Hard to imagine they had no system in place.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)That is still over the threshold, and is immune to the multiple e-mail signup scam. See below (emphasis mine)
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)set up solely for the purpose of skewing the polling
Wait for it. It's coming.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)I do have four different email addresses. One I only use professionally in and one I never use for campaign contributions. Both are political spam-free zones.
But I only voted one time. I did get requests from DFA to vote that were sent to my third address that gets a lot of political spam generally - it was my first private email address ever and I hadn't really compartmentalized in those early days. But I only voted from the address I contribute from. I probably shouldn't have had any qualms about voting more than once, but ....
If this endorsement has the same problem as online polls generally ... hmmm.
I'm glad that Hillary continues to have Howard on her side. If I had to choose between a DFA endorsement and Howard, I'd always choose Howard.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)77% of the vote was for Sanders, and came from people who were members of DFA before the vote started. So either you had to join DFA four times before voting started, or there's actual merit to these results.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I think Sanders staff is the ones currently concerned about how to use the Internet. Who are the other three? What did Sanders know and when did he know it. Great point about being computer savvy.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)A person had to get 67% of the online vote. An email address was what was needed. And another email address. And another one. They have seen the amazing blow-back from other groups who have endorsed Clinton. We have literally seen a whole group on the left promote the rhetoric that has been promoted by the right for generations; Union bosses are corrupt, this civil rights leader is bought and paid for, that one is a coward. It's really sad but DFA knows they will be ok supporting Sanders and that Clinton supporters won't relentlessly attack them online. As a Clinton supporter I know that DFA will be endorsing Clinton in about two months. I'm ok with that. I really don't want to see them bashed as so many other great progressive groups have been.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)And I believe that you are correct about the endorsement in a couple months, so I can live with this now.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And 77% is still above the threshold for endorsing.
So...your claim is Sanders supporters signed up with hundreds of fake email addresses to skew this vote...before the voting started.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)anyone who gave us their email address.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)77% of existing DFA members (i.e. before the voting announcement went out) chose Bernie. 77% is still over the threshold. Your argument is invalid.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... when you look at HOW FEW and HOW SCARCE and HOW MEAGER Bernie's list of endorsements are, it's easy to understand why Bernie's fans would be excited and crowing. (Frankly, I'm a little surprised that he's having such a difficult time with endorsements.)
ONLY... it's interesting to note how Hillary's union endorsements were viewed as irrelevant by Bernie's fans, but Bernie's recent union endorsement is viewed with such joy (or perhaps "relief" would be a better term to use.)
Are they being hypocritical now, or was it just a case of jealousy and "sour-grapes" when it came to Hillary's very long list of endorsements?
I haven't yet seen a breakdown that compares the total number of members that the unions represent. I think it's safe to assume that based on the sheer volume of unions that have endorsed Hillary, hers would be larger, but what's the percentage? (80/20? 90/10? 95/5? 99/1?)
angrychair
(8,699 posts)That most supporters of your candidate don't like the comparison, reality is reality, the endorsement split in December of 2007 was easily 80/20 in your candidate's favor and she was still leading in the polls by a large margin.
Despite the meme, as supporters of Bernie Sanders, we assume nothing and take nothing for granted.
As an aside, when looking at the candidate from each party with the most endorsements, on both the R and D side, the establishment candidates (HRC and Jeb!) have the most. The candidates with the most grassroots support and no SuperPACs, Bernie and tRump, endorsements are on the lower side.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)With regard to the present day: As I said, it's a good-get for Bernie, and long overdue. He's got a lot of work ahead of him if he and his fans expect to catch up with Hillary.
hedda_foil
(16,374 posts)* caveat: except for a handful of very young and /or naive internet posters, and another few working for other candidates' campaigns or PACks.
merrily
(45,251 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Once you got the email they sent to confirm, then you had to validate your vote.
This was NOT a simple "click."
But, that said, if Hillary fans can sit here on this website dissing online polls all day, why can't the find the time to go vote in them?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Autumn
(45,084 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Autumn
(45,084 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Autumn
(45,084 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Poor Dr Dean, his followers are in front of him and he doesn't know how to turn them around.
Democracy sucks, amirite?
DFW
(54,379 posts)Howard was stung by his early crash and burn in 2004. NOTHING has really fazed him since. If Hillary loses, then she loses. He isn't the candidate, so it won't change anything he's doing.
He does stuff like the march from Bangkok to the Burmese border to spotlight human slavery and trafficking.
Modern day slavery stings him. Missing out on his pick for the Democratic nomination would not.
mythology
(9,527 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)You know almost everyone in America has access to the internet, right? Not only Bernie supporters?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)The Sanders' Bros gnash & wail about the union chiefs committing vile acts of travesty against their members wishes. But now that a union endorses Bernie, it's punch & pie all around?
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)It's an activist organization. Bernie's CWA union endorsement, however, was given after months of polling its rank and file members unlike many of the other unions who have endorsed Hillary. Most of those endorsements were made by the union chiefs without any real consultation of their members. The classic one was the SEIU endorsement where the union reported that they polled its members, but what they actually did was poll *favorability* not who the members actually *supported*. Other unions just outright ignored their members. That is the key difference.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)How did you know that the powers that be are trying to rig the nomination towards Hillary?
Well, because it's perfectly clear to everybody.
That's something that is incredibly annoying and counter-productive. And those who love Hillary should be doing everything in their power not to continue the trend towards anything that feels like an unfair nomination process. They should be encouraging Hillary and DWS to lighten up the process and negotiate a better debate schedule, etc. Because if these kind of numbers of people feel disenfranchised by what they see as an unfair process, how they act in the general is not likely to become a pretty picture.
If Hillary is actually the best candidate, let her prove it through a reasonable schedule of debates, not through back-channel means.
Howard Dean? Will never trust the man again entirely.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Isn't that the argument against online polls? Somehow it isn't fair because the same people keep voting over and over again to skew the outcome?
I think you "knew" something you didn't know but just convinced yourself that you did. I can see why you support Hillary.