Why Bernie Sanders Can't Win

[MaggieD]

This is a great article and I think the conclusion is spot on. Personally, I don't think most Democrats blame other Democrats for this current state of affairs. I think they blame the right people - the republican party.

TL;DR version: Bernie is ranting at the wrong people.

....."But from what we’ve seen in our data, that revolution isn’t coming. That’s not because voters aren’t angry—they are. In fact, in our research, voter anger was dialed up to 11. But it wasn’t a rigged economy they were frothing over. It was politicians, government, campaigns, and Congress that they viewed with contempt. “The political system is rigged,” said a Democratic primary voter in Pittsburgh. And insofar as voters saw a stacked deck in America, the crooked dealer was Washington. “The U.S. Constitution is the most beautiful document ever written, but politics keeps it from working,” lamented another Democratic primary voter from Denver. This sentiment was everywhere in our focus groups."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/12/bernie-sanders-2016-why-sanders-cant-win-213414#ixzz3tsllnsQB

[AtomicKitten]

1. Authors are ALL upper echelon Third Way.

Know your propagandists:

William Daley, Board of Trustees Third Way.
Jonathan Cowan, President and Co-Founder Third Way.
Lanae Erickson Hatalsky, Vice President Third Way.

[onehandle]

3. I know I am!

I'm a Third Way Flunky That Did Not Vote for Hillary in 2008!

WooHoooo?

92% chance for Hillary to win the primary.

Less than eight weeks before the 'Not Hillary' Party loses its first primary.

[HerbChestnut]

4. Wait, these polls were conducted by Third Way?

Baaahahaha yeah, credibility shattered.

[Mnpaul]

69. The Third Way figured out that people are mad at a corrupt DC?

are they coming to the realization that corrupting the Democratic Party was a bad idea?

can we expect them to admit that their policies are driving this as well?

[HerbChestnut]

2. Nice argument. He can't win. Got it.

I guess we'll all just go home now.

[brooklynite]

76. How about offering a thoughtful explanation about how he can?

I'd like to hear one...

[HerbChestnut]

78. Why bother.

A typical argument from some Hillary supporters here is that he can't win, and they never back it up. It's just an attempt to depress enthusiasm, and it's very cynical. How about instead of worrying so much about Bernie you focus on your own candidate?

[brooklynite]

82. Excellent idea!

My candidate is ahead in every State (yes, I'm aware of the latest NH poll: but I don't cherry pick single polls, I look at the aggregates, where she's led in 6 of the last ten), she's got great ground teams and the financial resources to support them, and she's the choice of almost every elected official in the Party, even the progressives.

[HerbChestnut]

84. That's the spirit.

[cherokeeprogressive]

86. With real votes, cast on real ballots, by real people, in voting booths.

Hillary's ONLY claim to high poll numbers is name recognition.

[Ken Burch]

119. By winning a majority in the Electoral College.

[brooklynite]

121. Hard to do that if you're not nominated...

...tell us which States comprising a majority of Delegates he can win?

I know Clinton can win States in the North, South, Midwest and West. I know Sanders can win Vermont.

[bvf]

87. I'll get the lights.

Seriously, this was lame, wasn't it?

[dflprincess]

5. If voters are fed up with "politicians, government, campaigns, and Congress "

why would they reject the one that's bucking the system in favor of one that's business as usual?

[MaggieD]

8. He's been in congress for 25 years

And you're trying to claim he's not considered establishment?

[AgingAmerican]

12. He has always been an outsider

[VanillaRhapsody]

19. You don't get to be there 25 yrs and call yourself an outsider

He has been and still is a career politician. Only thin about him "outside" is the fact that he is a Socialist......an opposing all Capitalism Democratic Socialist.

Otherwise he is just a regulation Socialist Democrat that doesn't

Which did you mean?

[Sheepshank]

114. Wallowing at the public trough for 25 years without much to show for it, he's not an outsider

he's an establishment career politician.

[seabeyond]

22. He sold his vote to the Democrats in 1989 so they would not run a viable Democrat against him.

[MaggieD]

24. Exactly

And he's no outsider. Not even a little bit of one.

[AgingAmerican]

50. He has always been an outsider

[seabeyond]

55. He played an insider game, to be able to play the outsider.

[VanillaRhapsody]

104. No he is not....

Period....

[angrychair]

89. Hold on here...

All of you beat him up about not getting any endorsements from the mainstream Dems in Congress and he has spent his career fighting the system. He has never had a SuperPAC.
Despite that he is an insider?
Don't think that word means what you think it does.

[VanillaRhapsody]

105. 25 yrs....

His entire career as a politician....nothing outside about that....

[BlueJazz]

6. Bernie won't win because Americans like a gigantic national debt, plus being in debt up...

...to and including their ass, having a disgusting health uncare system, not being paid what they are worth, have short vacations, crooked election,s a public transportation and infrastructure that's a joke, a lying right-wing media and a host of other goodies. THAT's why Bernie can't win.

[Juicy_Bellows]

13. That's the long and short of it, yup.

Love yer signature line by the way.

Cheers.

[BlueJazz]

16. Aw..Thank you!

[Armstead]

7. That's a conservative critique...That's why Sanders message is important

For decades conservatives -- republican and democrat -- have been saying government is the problem.

No the problem is government that has been corrupted by Big Money/Monopolistic Corporations/Wall St. and Selfish Oligarchs.

That's what progressives are trying to overcome. That conservative impression that the problem is government -- when its corporations that are outsourcing jobs, rigging markets,m tanking the economy, screwing workers and consumers, etc.

Until the democratic party leadership stops parroting the GOP line they are going to be irrelevant to meaningful change.

[MaggieD]

14. I think most people like to believe in opportunity

And the idea that they can be successful in a fair system. So their solution is not "let's pay confiscatory taxes and let the government take care of me."

They want the same chance to be successful and wealthy. They don't want the system dismantled - they want it to stop being rigged. And I don't think any mainstream Dem voter thinks Democrats are a big reason why it is rigged. I know Bernie supporters here seem to, but I just can't see that most Dem voters think that way. No liberal I know in real life thinks that.

Most of us abhor the republican party and see it for what it is - a party whose reason for being is to rig the system. I think a lot of you are just wrong about where the real problem is.

[Armstead]

15. Rush Limbaugh -- "Support the Rich because someday you might be rich"

Same crap...only slightly modified

[MaggieD]

18. Do you really think your fellow Dems want a rigged system?

[slipslidingaway]

21. Some Dems want a rigged system, not all Dems, your choice. nt

[MaggieD]

27. You wouldn't know it from reading here

.... as much as we hear that the whole party is corrupt here.

[slipslidingaway]

57. There is a wide world outside of DU :) nt

[MaggieD]

60. That's my point

I think DU is a bubble, but sometimes the collective seems to forget that. It definitely is not typical of the average Dem / Dem leaning voter.

[slipslidingaway]

77. See post #1, I would never give credence to the Third Way ...

"Authors are ALL upper echelon Third Way.

Know your propagandists:


William Daley, Board of Trustees Third Way.
Jonathan Cowan, President and Co-Founder Third Way.
Lanae Erickson Hatalsky, Vice President Third Way. "

[MaggieD]

81. So you don't like Obama, you don't like...

... the people that worked for him, and you don't seem to like most Democrats. Why did you decide to join here then? I'm sincerely curious.

[slipslidingaway]

91. Yes I hate all Dems and love the other guys, our country was 'slipping' under Bush ...

so that is when I joined the Dem "underground" which was much more underground back then.

The party Dems did nothing to hold Bush accountable and said 'we need to look forward.'

How many decades do you watch the same game being played before you say enough, the game is rigged?

So I will not always raise the "party flag" and be a cheerleader, unlike some Repubs and Dems, and will challenge our party to do better.

[Bubzer]

97. As you should. I for one wont settle for hillary goldman-sachs clinton.

[slipslidingaway]

98. Thx, but we need to tread carefully ...

this is not so much an underground website as the name might imply.

Although I think there is a need to challenge both parties, some do not agree.

[Armstead]

28. Some do

[jeff47]

32. YES!

They're desperately fighting for it. There's several cases of interference in a lot of primaries to hurt the "wrong" kind of Democrat. Including the current DNC chairwoman in at least 3 races in Florida. Heck, she intervened to help a Republican.

At the local level, they're making sure local ballots have blanks on them instead of the "wrong" kind of Democrat. A county party literally took away a seat on their board because the "wrong" kind of Democrat was likely to win it.

Am I supposed to ignore all these things I've seen with my own eyes?

[AgingAmerican]

56. The Hillary campaign, the DNC and the Third Way all do

As do those who support them.

[Wilms]

9. I get it.

It's a PsyOp campaign.

[slipslidingaway]

17. ...

needed that!

[MohRokTah]

10. Thank you for risking a hide to post this. eom

[morningfog]

33. Lol. The victim mentality is hilarious.

[MohRokTah]

34. My stalkers are hilarious. eom

[kath]

38. Oh, yes. They're all so PEEEEERRRRRRSECUTED. It's just awful!

[beerandjesus]

37. .

[TSIAS]

107. Still open 20 hrs later

And just so she doesn't waste the time with a snarky response, I do know I kicked the OP to the top.

Your Hillbot juries have hidden an anti-Hillary thread today. Haven't seen any of the pro-Hillary and anti-Bernie codswallop hidden.

[MohRokTah]

112. .

[NurseJackie]

11. It's something to make thinking people think.

Knee-jerk reflexive people won't.

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Gee, I thought you specifically wrote to those people...

Go figure...

[kath]

39. Snort.

[NurseJackie]

45. LOL!

[WillyT]

23. Because Of People Like You...

What do I win ???

[jeff47]

25. Yes, I often write articles railing against things that are impossible.

It makes perfect sense to spend time writing up an article about something that is utterly impossible, instead of just letting the failure happen.



Clinton's internals must be awful.

[MaggieD]

31. Well what is your theory on why Bernie is losing in almost....

.... every state poll, and almost no unions nor other Dems will endorse him?

[jeff47]

36. Why do I need a theory?

I'm not the one screaming "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!! STOP TRYING!!!" over and over again. Such a waste of time and money from people who claim to be the experienced ones.

Unless it isn't actually impossible.

[PowerToThePeople]

26. Kick & rec for the 3rd way authors. Rofl.

Last edited Thu Dec 10, 2015, 01:21 AM - Edit history (1)

For an OP from an ardent Hillary supporter using a third way, ie Republican (D), article to try to discount Sanders candidacy.

Everything we have against HRC for Democratic potus is available right here.

Thank you.

[Thinkingabout]

29. Soe interesting information at the end of the article. Kodak gave up 145,000 employees because

of pictures are now taken by cell phones and with digital cameras. This is a result of "technology changes", I don't hear these reasons given when talking about why there are not good jobs. I also worked in an industry who do not have the number of employees today as they did in 1990, technology as made man power not necessary. The need to reinvent ourselves by picking up on new technology. President Obama has tried to push for renewable energy, develop solar and wind power and get these installed for everyone to use. It has not happened on the scale we need. The manufacture and installation would help working people.

[MaggieD]

35. Yes, the whole article is interesting, and it brings up....

Another huge point. Bernie seems to want to pretend the global economy is not a reality, or deny that technology changes things drastically. Instead of focusing on funding K-12 schools to qualify kids to get STEM degrees he rants about immigrants and H1B visas.

He just lives in the dark ages, IMO. And he really doesn't have a plan for the future.

[Thinkingabout]

40. Feet struck in cement.

[Eric J in MN]

46. H1B visas are a disincentive for Americans to get STEM degrees.

Flooding the tech job market via H1B visas lowers wages.

[MaggieD]

52. I don't think you understand H1B visas then

There are 80K per year across all industries. And so they don't "flood tech job market." Nor do they drive down wages, because the companies using them have to pay the prevailing wage for that specific job under regulation.

[Eric J in MN]

54. More workers = fewer salary increases = lower prevailing wages. NT

NT

[MaggieD]

59. Even if that dubious statement were true

.....are you claiming we should not prepare for the economy that is, frankly, already here?

Rail against it all you want, but that is not a solution. You want to incentivize people? Start with free college in STEM degrees. Now that is a solution.

Now you may think Bernie's solutions (such that they are) sound great. I think they sound terrible, pie in the sky, or not effective at solving the real problem.

Like I said in the OP, I think he's ranting up the wrong door.

[Eric J in MN]

65. If we had tuition-free state universities,

...as Bernie Sanders wants, then people could get STEM degrees for free, along with other degrees.

Hillary Clinton hasn't said getting a STEM degree should be free.

[MaggieD]

83. There you go again...

You honestly don't see the extremist that is Bernie, versus the progressive that is Hillary, do you?

I hate to break it to you, but most people do not want confiscatory taxes in exchange for the government taking care of them. Mainly because they do not want the government taking care of them. Some people need the government to take care of them, and every liberal is fine with that, but nobody wants the government to take care of them. Hell, they don't even trust the government.

[Lazy Daisy]

99. confiscatory taxes in exchange for the government taking care of them?

I call it fair taxes in order for our country to take care of our country.

Education
Infrastructure
Healthcare

I want my government to take care of a public school system that actually educates our children
I want my government to take care of infrastructure so they are safe to use
I want my government to provide a healthcare system that doesn't exclude anybody because of lack of funds

And while we're at it.... I've often thought we'd have better police departments if they weren't constantly attacked financially.
If they were compensated better, maybe they would get better candidates who wouldn't beat, kill and rape civilians.

I'm a little tired of my government resembling an absent father figure who gives mom $40 a week to take care of the household while he spends the other $200 of his pay on partying it up. Then blame the household for not being able to provide a home HE deserves.

[jeff47]

92. Hi. I write software for a living. I know a lot about H1B visas.

The only way I can think of that you could be more wrong about H1B visas is if you confused them with the credit card company.

Here's how you exploit the H1B visa:
First, you need to show that you can't find a US person for the job. You do this by seeking out people you know will not be interested. For example, I get about an email a day from recruiters, asking if I'd like an entry-level or junior-level job in a city across the country. I've never expressed any desire to live in that city on any job board. I also have 20 years experience, so I'm not going to take a job that requires 0-5 years and pays the rate for that experience.

How do I know they're H1B scams? First, the names of the recruiting companies - they are H1B mills. Second, they stop when the H1B cap is reached. One a day at the beginning of the year, and as soon as the cap is hit it goes to zero.

The goal is to get me to turn them down, or for me to not respond. That lets them claim they could not find a US person, even though they tried really hard. Honest!

That moves us on to how they avoid the prevailing wage. The job listing will claim that they want someone with say, 0-3 years experience. And they're paying for 0-3 years experience. But miracle of miracles, the person who applies via an H1B visa has 10 years experience and a masters! Boy, they really got lucky! And since he's so experienced, why they might as well just add some more duties...and more duties....and more. And now they're paying for 0-3 years experience for someone who's doing 10-years-experience-with-masters work. AKA half price.

So yes, H1Bs do depress wages. They do "flood the tech job market" - 85,000 is a significant percentage of jobs in my industry. And no, they are not "across all industries". Virtually all H1B visas are for writing software.

You also seem to be unaware of the horrific conditions of H1B visas: They only last 3-6 years. Then the person is shipped home. Which means they can not be used "to prepare for the economy that is already here".

They also are only valid as long as you work for that one employer. If you quit or are fired, you are thrown out of the country. Makes a little bit of incentive for letting management fuck you over, and management happily takes the opportunity.

This, btw, means we are not getting "the best and brightest". We're getting third-string. "The best and brightest" make more staying home, due to much lower cost-of-living. The ones that come here are getting a 3-to-6-year big payday, and then getting paid shit when they get home because they are not that good at their job.

[zigby]

101. I can speak a bit about them, as my ex was here on an H1B.

There are really two flavors, working as intended and corporate exploit. Of the top 20 companies hosting (these companies took about 32k of the 85k), fewer than 6k of the 85k visas went to "elite" tech companies which really do hire the cream of the crop from across the globe. The rest of these companies are really H1B mills which yes pay "prevailing wage" but there's a lot of gaming going on.

For example, you were doing the equivalent of staff software engineering at a company in India, they port you over to the States and give you a salary of $61K (H1B average for 2014) and a title of "programmer". Yes, a nice salary, but it's less than $40k less a year than a new grad at Google is hired on for. Barely middle class in Silicon Valley. Now imagine that company has the right to work you as hard as they can, under the threat of ripping your visa. You get fired or laid off, you have 0 days to get another. ZERO. You have to had a job already lined up, and make the deadline to transfer or responser. You're technically overstaying your visa, and if you manage to get back in under another visa, your app will be scrutinized and very possibly delayed while you travel back to your home country until the whole process starts over. Meanwhile, a whole generation of hungry, talented STEM holders in India and elsewhere are there to jump at your job.

Now a word about "flooding the tech market". Google for example only employs fewer than 19K engineers in all global offices. The point is, the industry employs VERY FEW, so even the small # of H1Bs is felt, esp. in companies which serve as indentured labor.

And finally, there is all the underground bullshit that goes on. My ex was brought in to work at a global subsidiary of Disney, and began working in her home country. All of a sudden, a job opened up in SC. She essentially worked on a business visa for months, while she was groomed with hundreds of others for H1B slots. Illegally. Eventually, she was told that the cap was met, she had to go home. I married her instead.

There are untold labor abuses going on to game the visa system, which is ridiculous.

I actually think the H1B system should be expanded and simplified, with still penalties for creating underpaid code sweatshops and visa feeder companies. But let's not pretend that the system as it is now is flooding the industry with subpar labor when better, more expensive workers have to either move to Silly Valley or kiss their jobs goodbye.



Sources:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcing-companies-dominate-h1b-visas.html
https://swizec.github.io/h1b-software-salaries/#*-*-*

[Turn CO Blue]

102. No. The program is now a vehicle for outsourcing high-tech jobs overseas

And they're not spread "across all industries" - it's mostly high tech.
And it is ripe with abuse of the foreign workers who are threatened and basically become indentured servants.

See multiple links from reputable sources below.

I can't believe you want to tout that program or defend it as harmless here on DU.

You know who loves H1B? CIOs from the big tech companies, a couple of rightwing think-tanks and rightwing Senators like Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) and Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT).

Does that Disney scandal a few months ago ring a bell with you? Where they were laying off 250 employees, mostly from the IT department, but they had to train their replacements (their foreign H1B Visa replacements)

But more pointedly, it is a bait and switch. The vast majority of the temp visas go to just FOUR very large outsourcing companies based in India. The REAL goal is for a couple of temp workers to come to the US, get training, collect documentation learn everything they can about the company's IT department processes, the databases and enterprise systems and clients, then BOOM! The high tech company suddenly OUTSOURCES half or all of the IT department to one of the outsourcing companies in India.

I've seen it happen at my former employer to personal friends of mine in 2009. IT brought in two H1B visa temps from India for 5-6 months, they worked on initial phases of two data warehouses, then BOOM - all in-house development and warehousing was outsourced to a company in India (they kept the network engineering in the US), was it not the most amazing COINCIDENCE that the outsourcing was where the same TWO temps JUST HAPPENED to work after they left the US and went back to India. Lost 16 high-paying $80K-$125K type of programmer jobs - people who had been with the company for 5, 10, 18 years - jobs gone to India.

I feel strongly that the H1B visa program should be granted STRICTLY for one of a kind talents and art (ballerinas, cello players, etc) and not STEM.

Visa Program Hijacked by Outsourcers
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/03/30/visa-program-has-been-hijacked-outsourcers/VAg6o9KgS2tuoZ3WbmaqeK/story.html

Disney Last Task After Layoff, Train Foreign Replacements
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html

Defenders of the H1B program - trying to triple the number of Visas:
Robert Iger, Disney’s CEO is a co-chair (along with Michael Bloomberg and Rupert Murdoch) of the Partnership For a New American Economy
The organization promotes tripling the current 85,000 available H-1B visas under a program called “I-Squared” that was introduced by Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) and Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT). With this kind of reform, we won’t get a new economy. We’ll get a lot more pink slips for Americans in STEM jobs.

Jobs Brokers Entrap Indian Tech Workers
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/28/-sp-jobs-brokers-entrap-indian-tech-workers

[reformist2]

68. The reality is that our corporations are exporting STEM jobs. Better to go into politics, or law.

[Eric J in MN]

30. Same argument could be used for, "Why Hillary Clinton Can't Win."

The Third Way is against "populism" and claims it's a losing campaign strategy.

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders:

Both say they want to get tough on Wall Street. Both say they want to make college affordable. Both say they want to raise the minimum wage.

Since the Third Way has found that "populism" is a terrible strategy, they could have argued that populism is why Hillary Clinton can't win.

[MaggieD]

42. Perhaps -- that could be a discussion as well

I do think this primary contest is really rooted more in differences about solutions than in any real differences about what the problems are.

Obviously the solutions between candidates might vary depending on whether you blamed rich people for using loopholes, or our politicians for giving them to them. I would love to see a thread about that, with no snark allowed. That's how DU used to be.

I come down on the side of the pols being the problem. I do believe if we had a super majority of Dems in congress we would not have these problems.

[dflprincess]

43. Except the Third Way knows that when Hillary starts talking like a Populist

there's a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" involved.

[Eric J in MN]

47. Yeah, maybe they're so sure of Hillary Clinton's insincerity

...on populism that they didn't bother to write against it.

[MaggieD]

49. She was the 11th most liberal senator in the senate...

... during her time. Obama was ranked like 23rd most liberal. She IS a populist. And she always has been.

[Eric J in MN]

51. Do you agree with the article?

Are you saying that Hillary Clinton can't win since she's a populist?

[MaggieD]

53. That's not what the article says....

What it says is that ranting against the "oligarchs" won't work, because people believe it's the government that is to blame.

[Eric J in MN]

63. The article also refers to policies

...and uses a strange definition of "populism" to include Bernie Sanders' proposals while excluding Hillary Clinton's.

Since that is the world voters see, the main populist economic ideas seem aimed at the wrong targets and tethered to a different time. Expand Social Security for everyone? That would cost trillions and confer a huge share of its benefits to wealthy, married senior couples. Single-payer health care? That comes with a $15 trillion price tag, a giant increase in middle class taxes, and another huge government program. Doubling the minimum wage to $15? All Democrats want to raise it, but a bump of nearly $8 nationwide would cost far too many jobs.

So when Hillary Clinton says she wants the poor to have higher Social Security benefits, the article doesn't count that as populism because she doesn't want to "expand Social Security for everyone."

When Hillary Clinton says she wants to lower health insurance co-pays, the article doesn't count that as populism because she doesn't want single-payer.

When Hillary Clinton says she wants to raise the minimum wage to $12, the article doesn't count that as populism because $15 is the magic number when an increase becomes populist.

[MaggieD]

71. As the article says....

"....populist economic ideas seem aimed at the wrong targets and tethered to a different time"

It's not the populism that is the problem - it's his targets and the proposed solutions that are off the mark for most people. IMO.

[Triana]

41. Actually the crooked dealers are the great corporations and the wealthy - that's who controls

Washington and everyone in it, particularly thanks to Citizens United - but even before that. Indeed the deck is stacked against the rest of us. As long as corporates control OUR government, it will be.

Hillary may win but she will continue this paradigm that is hurting us most.

Sanders would be our ONLY chance of even making a dent in the corporate armor around the US gov't. TPP, TISA, TTIP will codify the One World Order that is Total Corporate Domination of all major world governments.

That train has to be stopped. Sanders is right. He's not ranting at the wrong people. Whoever wrote that article seems hellbent on creating yet another distraction from the real issue here. Politico. Oh... well.

[MaggieD]

48. Well it's a chicken or the egg discussion, so...

I can't say you're wrong about which came first. Like I said above - I think the major differences are around the solutions, not the problems.

[Cha]

44. K^R

[Scootaloo]

58. if i may borrow a phrase from another campaign...

"Yes, we can."

Don't worry maggieD. You'll like it. You'll see!

[MaggieD]

62. I think you're going to be very disappointed

And frankly, after all the upset you all had here just about a bad press conference, I am a little worried for how you guys will take it.

Be strong! And don't forget we'll be here for you!

[Scootaloo]

70. One would imagine that the "upset" parties are the ones cranking out angry OP's about it every 5 min

And cranking them out so fast that they just don't have any time to actually include the truth. Surely an oversight, but you know... haste makes waste.

[MaggieD]

73. I think it's a good article for some actual "thinking style" discussion

Which is sorely lacking here these days. And it actually has been a decent discussion upthread.

[Scootaloo]

75. Funny, the article doesn't invite discussion

It makes an assertion then tries to weave a supportive narrative around that assertion.

[global1]

61. So I Guess They're So Angry That They'll Just Elect More Of The Same....

instead of somebody that is pushing for a political revolution that wants to right the Washington wrongs. Makes no sense to me. Does that make sense to you?

If you thought there was gridlock in D.C. with Obama as President - do you sincerely think that the Repugs are going to cooperate with Hillary? They've hated Hillary long before they ever heard the name Barack Hussein Obama.

Bernie's Political Revolution is not just about a rigged economy.

[MaggieD]

64. You think?

I guess we'll see. Not looking good.

[JaneyVee]

66. Brings up some interesting points about polling.

[longship]

67. Blah Ba-Blah Blah. Ba-Blah Ba-Blah Ba-Blah!

Why won't you children give up these kinds of posts?

Don't you know that there are many Democrats here who see a problem with the childish infighting here on DU.

And to those who do not see it... Pbpbpbffft!

I am a lifelong Democrat. I will vote straight ticket every election, no matter who is running.

The alternative we all know about, and is too ugly to consider.

[highprincipleswork]

72. Well then they've been misguided very well.

Well then they've been misguided very well.

We've been slowly boiled in Republican oil, with the cooperation of the DLC and the Third Way and the Blue Dogs and all their like every since Ronald Raygun mesmerized the nation with her grandfather schtick.

F.D.R. did such great things, that inspired others to do such great things, and then one misinterpretation of one electoral defeat set us off on these many decades of loserdom.

Tired of it. Enough it enough.

Bernie is the man, pure and simple.

I advise everyone to watch the recent series on the Roosevelts for inspiration, courage, and for a model of how the Democratic Party should really be. Even though I know Teddy was a "Republican". But not one like we know them now, that is for sure!!!!!!!

[cosmicone]

74. Several copycat threads will be coming up hahahaha n/t

[longship]

79. Blah, de-Blah, de-Blah-Blah. De-Blah-Blah de-Blah de-Blah! nt

[SheilaT]

80. Who was that guy,

that really nice colored fellow who ran in 2008? I'm thinking he'd been in the Illinois state senate, and had just been elected to the US Senate, had some sort of odd name What ever happened to him?

Wait, we're not in the latter part of Hillary Clinton's second term? OMG! What did I miss?

[Kalidurga]

85. ....

[cherokeeprogressive]

88. Name recognition and super-delegates. Ho hum.

Yawwwwwn.

[riversedge]

90. rec

[jkbRN]

93. POLITICO HAHAHAHAH

I didn't look, but if it's the third way democrats you should be ashamed posting that shit here.

[shwnrob]

94. Sanders cant win

The bernie sanders supporters will be on suicide watch when he loses

[bvf]

100. "Suicide watch"

Was that meant for a giggle?

[NurseJackie]

109. Perhaps it's not meant literally (as in taking one's own life) but figuratively ...

Perhaps it's not meant literally (as in taking one's own life) but figuratively (as in intentionally posting something that's guaranteed to result in being banned from this web site.)

[bvf]

115. Perhaps you're presuming to speak for somebody else.

[NurseJackie]

116. Does that bother you?

[bvf]

120. Nope. Not in the least.

It did occur to me that someone with a post count in the low single digits making jokes in reference to suicide would jump at the chance to clarify his/her remarks, however.

By all means, presume away. It says volumes.

[NurseJackie]

122. What does it say?

[bvf]

123. A sincere question deserves a sincere response.

[NurseJackie]

125. That depends on the question.

[TSIAS]

108. Welcome

Are you related to JimRob?

[MannyGoldstein]

95. Thank Goddess that you're keeping an unrelenting eye on his insignificance

Thirty posts per day on the topic aren't nearly enough; he's that dangerous.

[oasis]

96. Makes perfect sense to me. nt

[McCamy Taylor]

103. Because he can't win the Dem primary much less the general.

[R B Garr]

106. From the article: "'It clearly panders to the lowest

common denominator,'" said a Las Vegas Democrat.

Ouch! That's gotta hurt.

[Vinca]

110. The more important question is: can Hillary win?

Even most Bernie supporters will concede she's probably going to win the primary. That's scary to me because I don't necessarily think she can win the general. Good news today, though. If the GOP decides to have a brokered convention it's likely Trump will go third party and split the vote. Then any Democrat is a shoo in. If he doesn't, Hillary has the task of trying to create some excitement among the people who don't show up for midterm elections. Good luck with that.

[TSIAS]

111. Bye, Felicia!

See you in a few months.

[MeNMyVolt]

113. ^^^ This is what makes DU suck.

It used to be such a vibrant board, with posters that made me stand on my chair and shout "YES". Now, it's a high school forum.

[bvf]

124. Yet here you are.

[kath]

117. Oh, dear, we won't be hearing from her until the 24th of February or so.

Too bad, so sad.

[Ken Burch]

118. Politico? I thought HRC supporters were offended by right-wing sources for OP's. n/t.

[bowens43]

126. LMAO!!!Yes keep hoping.....its going repeat of 2008

and hillary will finally be regulated to the trash can of history where she should have been after Bill left office

[gordyfl]

127. Bernie Sanders Favorability "Almost Unheard of"

Eighty-three percent of respondents said they had a favorable opinion of Vermont senator, compared to just 9 percent that had an unfavorable opinion.

Clinton, meanwhile, was viewed 68 percent favorably to 24 percent unfavorably by likely Democratic primary voters.
Dr. Andrew Smith, director of the UNH Survey Center, told Boston.com that Sanders’ popularity is “almost unheard of” this far into the campaign.

“I have never seen favorabilities for any candidate this high at this point in the primary,” Smith said, noting that Sanders’ net favorability has only increased since he entered the race.


http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2015/12/09/bernie-sanders-new-hampshire-favorability-almost-unheard-new-poll/Q5V0wIy7voJCl8aJxIojQK/story.html

[Jester Messiah]

128. Even if that wasn't a titanic load of BS, I'd still vote for him.

I'd rather lose while voting for what I believe in than be on the winning side and vote for what I don't.