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DemocratSinceBirth

(99,714 posts)
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 05:22 PM Dec 2015

Brand Spanking New CNN Iowa Poll -HRC 54% SBS% 36% MOM 4%



On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton maintains an 18-point lead over Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, 54% to 36%. Former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley has 4%.

The gender gap between Clinton and Sanders has narrowed in the last month, with both men and women breaking significantly in the former secretary of state's favor (51% Clinton to 40% Sanders among men, 57% Clinton to 34% Sanders among women; last month it was 48% Clinton to 44% Sanders among men and 62% Clinton to 31% Sanders among women).

Clinton's edge on handling economic issues is smaller in Iowa than it is nationally, 47% in Iowa say they think Clinton would do the best job handling the economy while 42% say they trust Sanders most, while our recent national poll found Clinton holding a 58% to 31% advantage on the same issue. Likewise, Iowa's likely caucusgoers are more likely to think that Sanders would do the most to help the middle class (50%) than to say Clinton would (43%), a question that split national Democrats almost evenly (47% Clinton to 44% Sanders).

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-ted-cruz-iowa-poll/index.html



56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Brand Spanking New CNN Iowa Poll -HRC 54% SBS% 36% MOM 4% (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 OP
Be honest, 6 months ago or whenever it was, you would never have dreamed Bernie could randys1 Dec 2015 #1
I try not to comment about the Vermont independent because whenever I do I get a hide. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 #4
LOL , i know randys1 Dec 2015 #5
In Iowa and NH? Those are his only hope. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #13
No, I honestly thought he had no belief he could win, and I didnt think he could either randys1 Dec 2015 #16
He has definitely exceeded initial expectations, for sure. BlueCheese Dec 2015 #20
And six months from now? This: George II Dec 2015 #24
LOL Alfresco Dec 2015 #25
I was thinking this... MrWendel Dec 2015 #29
Excellent! George II Dec 2015 #30
oh, to be a beach bum riversedge Dec 2015 #51
He was much closer a few months ago FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #35
Atta-girl! NurseJackie Dec 2015 #2
Go Hillary! Agschmid Dec 2015 #3
Keep on truckin' oasis Dec 2015 #6
They used a loose screen so this could be the optimum case for the Vermont independent. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 #7
Is that former Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin in the photo? oasis Dec 2015 #17
Yes./nt DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 #19
The gap is slowly widening... George II Dec 2015 #8
At this point in 07 she was actually trailing in IA DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 #22
You just had to point that out. msrizzo Dec 2015 #38
Falls nearly exactly on the Huffpo polling average Dem2 Dec 2015 #9
It's worth noting HerbChestnut Dec 2015 #10
Lookin good for Hillary workinclasszero Dec 2015 #11
So no overall change since the last CNN poll in Iowa, right? Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 #12
I thought as people got to know Sanders, he would do better and better... Zequest Dec 2015 #36
I'm not unhappy with the polling trend in Iowa Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 #39
That's not the trend. You customized it Zequest Dec 2015 #44
you add smoothing to show the trend line and detract smoothing to highlight individual poll results Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 #45
K AND R! JaneyVee Dec 2015 #14
She's trending UP! Alfresco Dec 2015 #15
i think sanders needs Iowa and new hampshire JI7 Dec 2015 #18
K & R Iliyah Dec 2015 #21
Thanks DSB, perfect timing. Alfresco Dec 2015 #23
Yeah, babeee!!! C'mon, let's go! Great news. K & R nt Persondem Dec 2015 #26
thank you, DSB! Cha Dec 2015 #27
Huuuge!!! DCBob Dec 2015 #28
I am loving riversedge Dec 2015 #33
Congratulations to Hillary, her Team and espec the volunteers who do the footwork riversedge Dec 2015 #31
She's toast. OilemFirchen Dec 2015 #32
Good solid lead keep it going ! FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #34
He's got her right where he wants her...nt SidDithers Dec 2015 #37
Sid!!! NurseJackie Dec 2015 #40
Rec! mcar Dec 2015 #41
I'm thinking the great Yogi Berra madokie Dec 2015 #42
These polls are getting sad. They're doing a piss poor job hiding poor sampling. RichVRichV Dec 2015 #43
Problem with your analysis is, your comparing a caucus to a general election turnout stevenleser Dec 2015 #46
You're right, we have to compare primaries, not general elections. RichVRichV Dec 2015 #47
Nope, you can't expect equal distribution since 50+ tends to turn out more stevenleser Dec 2015 #48
Fair enough. RichVRichV Dec 2015 #49
And you can't compare turnouts from general elections to caucuses to primaries! DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 #53
Hence why I looked up the entrance polls from the Iowa caucus in 2008 to compare with the 2012 GE RichVRichV Dec 2015 #56
An Early AM Coffee Kick Alfresco Dec 2015 #50
K&R ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #52
This is another poll that is only polling people 50 years and up coyote Dec 2015 #54
Kick workinclasszero Dec 2015 #55
 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
13. In Iowa and NH? Those are his only hope.
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 05:40 PM
Dec 2015

Homogeneous states with low delegate count. Be honest, 6 months ago you thought Bernie would be shellacking Hillary.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
16. No, I honestly thought he had no belief he could win, and I didnt think he could either
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 05:42 PM
Dec 2015

I did think he thought he HAD to do something to get the conversation going before the poor become 89% of the population, or whatever.

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
20. He has definitely exceeded initial expectations, for sure.
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 05:49 PM
Dec 2015

I haven't decided which way to vote myself (and my state votes so late it doesn't really matter). But Sanders has added an important voice to the primary debate, and his issues deserve to be heard.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
9. Falls nearly exactly on the Huffpo polling average
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 05:37 PM
Dec 2015

53.6-36.3

Edit: NM, I hit refresh and it changed, though my statement still stands I guess:

Hillary Clinton 54.7%
Bernie Sanders 37.4%
Martin O'Malley 3.7%

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
10. It's worth noting
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 05:37 PM
Dec 2015

That this poll reflects the last CNN Iowa poll almost exactly. Then it was Hillary 55, Bernie 37, Martin 3. So if anything it looks like things have stalled a bit in Iowa for the time being.

 

Zequest

(18 posts)
36. I thought as people got to know Sanders, he would do better and better...
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 07:14 PM
Dec 2015

What went wrong in this period between these two polls? Nobody got know him?

 

Zequest

(18 posts)
44. That's not the trend. You customized it
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:36 AM
Dec 2015

When one visits HuffPo, this is what we see



As you can see, your numbes (HRC 49 vs. Sanders' 40.8) are not the numbers given by HuffPo.

JI7

(89,276 posts)
18. i think sanders needs Iowa and new hampshire
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 05:47 PM
Dec 2015

Winning both would do a lot towards helping in later states.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
42. I'm thinking the great Yogi Berra
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:10 PM
Dec 2015

we've seen this show before. I still remember what the view was like, Actually

RichVRichV

(885 posts)
43. These polls are getting sad. They're doing a piss poor job hiding poor sampling.
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:20 AM
Dec 2015

[IMG][/IMG]

First thing to notice is that the under 50 crowd has N/A listed for their results. So you'd think we can't figure out their totals, but it's actually blatently easy. If you look at the top of the poll, the Democratic likely caucus goers is 442 and the total has a margin of error of +/-4.5%. The formula 0.95/sqrt(442) works out for this. Using that we can see how many are in the 50 and older crowd. With +/-5.5% it comes out to ~298. 298/442 = 67.4% of the total.

The problem is that in Iowa in 2012 the over 50 crowd only counted for 54% of the voting totals. CNN's own exit polling from 2012 verifies this. As you can see by comparing the totals column to the 50 and older column, Bernie pickes up substantially with the sub 50 crowd. Hillary does better the older the crowd gets.

They also list margin of errors breakdowns for the 50-64 crowd (+/-8.0%, ~140 people, 31.6% polled) and 65+ crowd (+/-7.5%, ~160 people, 36.1% polled). That puts the 50-64 crowd 12.8% higher sampling then they should be, and the 65+ crowd (Hillary's best group) at 38% higher sampling than they should be vs 2012 exit polling. All this means that the under 50 crowd (Where Bernie does best) is being undersampled by 41% (~144 ppeople, 32.6% here. Should be 46% according to 2012 exit polling)


This means that either CNN thinks the youth turnout is going to drop like a rock from 2012, or they're blowing smoke up our asses with the sampling.


Hillary currently has a lead in Iowa. It's not as high as the poll results say it is.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
46. Problem with your analysis is, your comparing a caucus to a general election turnout
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 01:02 AM
Dec 2015

CNN and other polling agencies aren't tailoring their samples to a general election and they shouldn't. They are tailoring it to what they expect caucus turnout will be like and I am guessing they have some info that tells them what 2008 caucus turnout was like that helps them do that.

RichVRichV

(885 posts)
47. You're right, we have to compare primaries, not general elections.
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 01:27 AM
Dec 2015

Since there was no Democratic presidential primary in 2012, let's go back to Iowa 2008 Democratic primary.

17-29 --- 22%
30-44 --- 18%
45-64 --- 38%
65+ ----- 22%


Now we can't convert perfectly because the 45-64 age group doesn't line up with the 50-64 age group. But if we assume equal distribution across the group then that puts us at

under 50 - 49.5%
over 50 - 50.5%



Thank you, you just made my argument stronger.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
48. Nope, you can't expect equal distribution since 50+ tends to turn out more
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 01:32 AM
Dec 2015

And Iowa has caucuses not primaries.

RichVRichV

(885 posts)
49. Fair enough.
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 01:48 AM
Dec 2015

If we assume the 45-49 vs 50-64 numbers come out with the same difference as the 30-44 vs 45-64 age groups do then it points to a 44% under 50 and 56% over 50. Since the variance probably doesn't fall at either end of the extreme, it's not far off from my original 46% vs 54% in the 2012 general. My original math stands. The sampling on the poll is wrong.


And this info is from CNN's entrance polls for the Iowa caucus in 2008. It's accurate and a valid comparison.

RichVRichV

(885 posts)
56. Hence why I looked up the entrance polls from the Iowa caucus in 2008 to compare with the 2012 GE
Wed Dec 9, 2015, 10:05 PM
Dec 2015

numbers for Iowa. The demographic breakdowns were pretty much equal. This information isn't hidden, go look it up.

ABC Iowa caucus exit poll
CNN Iowa caucus entrance poll
Washington Post Iowa caucus entrance poll
NYTimes Iowa caucus entrance poll



The turnout numbers aren't what's important, it's the demographic breakdowns of the caucus that matter to the accuracy of the polls. The polls can only be considered accurate if they correctly identify the likely demographic breakdowns for the caucus (especially when the vote skews so heavily along those demographics as it's doing in these polls). Right now this and most other polls are not matching the 2008 Iowa caucus demographics. That means either they expect a substantial drop in sub 50 voting from 2008 caucus or they are using improper sampling.

 

coyote

(1,561 posts)
54. This is another poll that is only polling people 50 years and up
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 03:15 PM
Dec 2015

The 18-50 year group is totally missing or has an extremely low sampling group. It looks like a shit poll to me.

18-34 group is N/A
35-49 group is N/A


http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/poll-results-ted-cruz-donald-trump-iowa/index.html

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