It seems the Margaret Thatcher comparison made by Killer Mike during his intro speech at a

[Ed Suspicious]

Bernie event has raised a few hackles. So, In what politically relevant ways is Hillary like/dislike Margaret Thatcher? I don't know. All I really know about her is that she was a privatizer and a proponent of neo-liberal economic policy. After that I have nothing. She was a bit before my time (at least before the time that I became politically interested/active). Help me out here.

I already presume both have similar sex organs.

[ibegurpard]

1. also a warmonger

[beam me up scottie]

2. That's how I took it too.

A war hawk who wants to be the first woman president like Thatcher was the first woman Prime Minister.

[Cheese Sandwich]

3. Probably just everything

The aggressive imperialist posturing, military adventurism, neoliberal attitudes like working to privatize industries in developing countries, serving the interests of big banks and corporations.

The point with gender here I guess is yeah I would like to see a woman president, but not bad enough to elect someone like Margaret Thatcher. I guess that's what KM meant. I and agree.

It think the disagreement revolves around whether or not one thinks Clinton's policies are similar to Thatcher's.


KM also invoked the name of Reagan in a very similar way.

"I have no time... to relive the Reagan years.

I have no desire to see us elect our own Margaret Thatcher.

I am here as a propenent for a political revolution that says health care is a right of every citizen.

I am here because working class and poor people deserve a chance at economic freedom."

Edited: all the words

[Betty Karlson]

4. That's probably what riled Team Clinton the most:

it draws the attention back to issues and policies. And Team Clinton prefers to prevaricate on taking positions. They would have to spin like never before to make a comparison with Thatcher "sexist" or "racist" (both of which Thatcher was, btw, as well as homophobic!).

[ibegurpard]

5. as well as a perfect example

Of how "the first woman" can actually turn out to be a nightmare. How about the RIGHT WOMAN???

[Betty Karlson]

6. How about the right person?

How about we stop obsessing about genitals of all candidates and their spouses - and those of the rest of the population too?

I'd like an openly gay president in my lifetime - but if that gay candidate comes with positions like Donald Trump's, I'll still vote for whomever is his or her opponent.

[ibegurpard]

8. Well definitely

I do think it's long past time we had a female president and I'd love to see it happen in my lifetime but I don't want someone like Hillary. It's getting harder and harder to imagine myself voting for her and that's coming from a place of being prepared to do so if I had to.

[PatrickforO]

35. Me too.

[Cheese Sandwich]

7. I did notice that in the sentence before that he also used the name of Reagan in a very similar way.

We don't want another Reagan, and we don't want another Thatcher.

So OK I agree. We don't want that.

"I have no time... to relive the Reagan years.

I have no desire to see us elect our own Margaret Thatcher.

I am here as a propenent for a political revolution that says health care is a right of every citizen.

I am here because working class and poor people deserve a chance at economic freedom."

[yardwork]

19. Bill Clinton's administrations were a recovery from the Reagan years.

We all breathed a huge sigh of relief. The economy recovered, the wars stopped, things got better. Then W. Bush stole the election and the horrors began again.

Things have been better under Obama, and they will stay about the same if Hillary is elected.

[Major Hogwash]

20. Except Clinton wasn't even elected by a majority of voters in this country.

Plus the fact that he didn't receive 50% of the vote when he ran for re-election in 1996.

[Cheese Sandwich]

24. Somewhat yes, somewhat no

A lot of people see the Clinton years as a continuation of the Reagan era, and continuing right up through today. Sometimes we call the whole thing the neoliberal era.

Some of the same agenda persisted like the international trade deals, sometimes called trade liberalization, the hyper-imprisonment, cutting welfare, privatizing public services and more.

[yardwork]

26. We are living in a conservative time.

The entire country has moved far to the right over the last 50 years. It will get a lot worse if a Republican seizes the White House.

The majority of U.S. voters like conservative candidates. Look at Trump's popularity.

[Cheese Sandwich]

46. We should resist that though

[peacebird]

27. Bill Clinton crushed the safety net for the poor (welfare "reform"), signed NAFTA (whooshing sound

of good middle class American jobs leaving the country), and killed Glass Steagal.

I was naive enough to trust Back then, I know better now.

[yardwork]

28. Don't discount the pressure of the right wing Congress, and the voters who put them there.

I don't believe that there is a savior out there.

The environmental problems are going to get so bad, we'll look back on this and yearn for the easy days.

[kath]

54. YES."15 Ways Bill Clinton’s White House Failed America and the World.Many Americans do not associate

Clinton with his dark legacy" A great article, posted here a few months back. definitely worth a read, or a re-read as a refresher.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/15-ways-bill-clintons-white-house-failed-america-and-world

[Chan790]

39. A lot of what Clinton got credit for had nothing to do with him or was more ambiguous.

The wars did stop...except the one he entered into in the Balkans.

The economy did recover...but if you deduct the unsustainable and largely-localized bubble of the tech-boom economy...it actually got worse for many Americans. It was, at-best, an unequal recovery. For a lot of places, it was worse under Clinton than Reagan though better than Bush I. Bushes are really fucking awful economic Presidents.

I expect a small economic recession under Hillary if elected...there likely isn't going to be a tech boom to cover for the failed economic policies of Clintonian Third-Way this time.

[BootinUp]

41. The economy got a boost when Clinton got the budget deficit under control. nt

[Chan790]

44. Which he did largely on the backs of poor people and those on Medicaid and TANF.

Let's call that less than something that should be praised.

If he'd done more to get the deficit under control by cutting defense spending (which he did by only token amounts to claim he'd done); working to improve trade policy (which he actually exploded and made worse by signing NAFTA); and raising corporate taxes, closing business-tax loopholes and combating offshoring of assets for tax-avoidance...if he'd done more or really any of those things to more than token degrees, it might be worthy of praise.

You see something good in that. I don't. I also don't think it had the real world impacts you do. It created a lot of paper-gain and got the GOP off his back a bit about the budget...but it didn't do fuck-all for the common American. It's a perception accomplishment, not an actual accomplishment.

[BootinUp]

45. You can spin anything negatively if you want to

Which is all you have done there. He remains one of the most popular Presidents and this is almost entirely based on his domestic record and the economy. So you will never sell that story, the pukes have tried and have not been able to.

[FSogol]

49. You seriously typed "it was worse under Clinton than Reagan"

[Chan790]

50. It was in a lot of places economically, yes.

Some things aren't really debatable as much as we'd like them to be.

If you lived in upstate NY or NW CT or a lot of places with strong manufacturing economies, few export goods, still fairly-strong union labor-forces through the 1980s, and little tech or service economy--it was worse (and not incrementally so) 1992-2000 than 1980-1988 taken as a whole.

[Todays_Illusion]

40. Only superficially, if you look closely they were a continuation of the Reagan agenda, NAFTA, China,

Repeal of Glass-Steagall, drastic cutting of the welfare program, continuation of wage suppression, no significant adjustment of Social Security income base. Bill Clinton was the first of these sell out Democratic.

We've been had. Yet none of you are supporting a President who has held more firmly to the social safety net, you fall for and join the anti-Obama propaganda and undermine the one who has been fighting for you.

Why?

[sabrina 1]

42. Reagan and Thatcher were buddies. He loved Maggie! Naturally.

[Kalidurga]

9. They both actually seem like lovely people.

I mean that sincerely. They would probably be the kind of people who are fun to hang out with. I actually like Hilary's laugh. However, they are ruthless I would have rather seen them run companies and not countries.

[Paka]

11. Her laugh sounds like a cackle to me.

eom

[Kalidurga]

12. Yeah but I like that

I do hear what you are saying. I know it's not something most people like. Kinda like show tunes.

[Paka]

15. I love show tunes.

But harsh laughs, not so much.

[Ed Suspicious]

10. How are they different (as political beings, particularly, how would their policies differ)?

I would think this would be a great place for Clinton supporters to lay the idea to rest, since it seems that's what they would like to do. Let's talk policy. How is Killer Mike's connection at odds with your version of the reality of Hillary as leader of a nation.

[riversedge]

13. If that is all you know--then it is YOUR responsibility to self educated yourself. Good grief

if you have not done that by now-it is shameful.

[dsc]

14. but the OP might have to read a book

the horror of it all.

[sorechasm]

16. Condescend(ed) much?

We do know that Margaret Thatcher started the war in the Falklands to gain favor among the war hawks and establish her reputation of being tough.

I can't imagine HRC doing such a thing. Can you?

[yardwork]

18. No, I can't.

[Chan790]

43. Yes.

I can. It's not out of character for her...she has a chip on her shoulder about being perceived as less capable and less-able, more-emotional and less-tough than peers. It's served her well in the past but it also tends to make her more coldly-calculating and more likely to do things for reasons to disprove those perceptions.

So, can I imagine her doing such a thing? Yes, I think it is more-likely than not based on her character and her belief in military interventionism. She's about as keen on pacifists as I am...it's one of the few things I don't despise about her. She's way more hawkish than I am though and I'm no dove.

[NurseJackie]

21. I suspect that the OP isn't as oblivious as the message suggests.

The most likely explanation is that the OP is trying to entertain himself with a mildly provocative query that makes a subtle suggestion that Hillary and Margaret are similar, or that their differences are too subtle to distinguish. It's a bullshit post.

[BootinUp]

22. I concur. nt

[Starry Messenger]

25. With bells on.

[yardwork]

17. Margaret Thatcher was an ally of Reagan's. She was a right-wing conservative.

Hillary Clinton, as president, would be very similar to Obama in terms of foreign relations. Hillary was Obama's first Secretary of State. Their stump speeches are very similar. Hillary is a little more liberal on social issues than Obama.

There's a great difference between right-wing Thatcher and moderate Democrat Clinton. Likewise, there is a huge difference between Hillary and any of the Republican candidates. Night and day difference.

[aspirant]

23. Hills is no Obama even with small crowds

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. Read her Wiki page - she was a real piece of work. Link:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatcherism

[Fritz Walter]

56. Here are some highlights

Her political philosophy and economic policies emphasised deregulation (particularly of the financial sector), flexible labour markets, the privatisation of state-owned companies, and reducing the power and influence of trade unions.

Given Hillary's close ties with Wall Street, I think that deregulation will be a given. Why else would the too-big-to-fail banks pour so much of our hard-earned money into her 2016 war chest, not to mention the whole Clinton Foundation?

What "state-owned companies" are left for Hillary to privatize? Social Security? Medicare? The Veterans Administration? Highways? We've seen how schools and prisons are doing so well in the hands of for-profit companies.

Re: Labour markets and the influence of trade unions: I'll defer to others more knowledgeable in organized labor to explain why so many of the rank-and-file members are adamantly opposed to their unions backing Hillary.

As you read Thatcher's wikipedia bio, don't skip over Foreign Relations. For instance, when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan:

She gave weak support to American President Jimmy Carter who tried to punish the USSR with economic sanctions. Britain's economic situation was precarious, and most of NATO was reluctant to cut trade ties. It was reported that her government secretly supplied Saddam Hussein with military equipment as early as 1981.

The Faulkland War...

...was hailed a success, notwithstanding the deaths of 255 British servicemen and 3 Falkland Islanders. Argentinian deaths totalled 649, half of them after the nuclear-powered submarine HMS Conqueror torpedoed and sank the cruiser ARA General Belgrano on 2 May.[160] Thatcher was criticised for the neglect of the Falklands' defence that led to the war, and especially by Tam Dalyell in parliament for the decision to sink the General Belgrano, but overall she was considered a highly capable and committed war leader.

For strategic sheep purposes, I guess.

Yep! That's just what the USA needs right now: another war in a remote part of the world.

[seabeyond]

30. Early 2000 was before your time? As a democrat, I like to educate myself before a vote.

google is our friend.

Do you often discuss male body parts when having a conversation comparing different male politicians or is this just a special thing you do with women?

[Ed Suspicious]

31. What? I was not ever going to be able to vote for Thatcher. You can kindly piss off if you don't

like that I'm asking my friends here for info/education.


What are you talking about, 2000? "Prime Minister of the United Kingdom: 4 May 1979 – 28 November 1990" (Wikipedia)

I was a sophomore in High School when she finished her tenure. I really wasn't paying much attention then. I don't know wtf you're talking about with the early 2000.

Bernie likely has a penis, Hillary likely has a vagina. Yes. I do discuss body parts when a candidate makes his/her sex/gender and the supposed special "in" that it gives said candidate with an important demographic a part of their campaign.

[seabeyond]

34. "piss off" isnt nice. All one needs do is know Clintons senate record.

That would be like asking what is the difference between Sanders and Thatcher. And you could even reference to body parts.

[ChiciB1]

32. I Actually Thought It Was Pretty Much ON TARGET!

I kind thought it was pretty close and appropriate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. ...

[Blue_Tires]

53. lalz

[snagglepuss]

36. One of Thatcher's most harmful ideas was that there is no such thing as society,

the only reality were individuals. She used this creed of her to destroy much of Britain's social safety net.

For all her neocon leanings, HRC in this respect bears no resemblance to Thatcher.

[lovemydog]

37. Thatcher was very much right wing.

Tried to move Great Britain far to the right. Attempted to destroy trade unions. Invaded the Falklands over nothing but sheep just to mess with Argentina. Attempted to privatize most all industry. Outspoken critic of the European Union. Only European leader to allow Reagan's war planes to fly overhead. Anti-poor in her actions and rhetoric. Her immigration policies and racist rhetoric helped spur Rock Against Racism. Opposed strongly by every liberal in the USA and Great Britain. There's an Elvis Costello song about her called Tramp The Dirt Down where he basically says 'I'll gladly piss on your grave.' That's how liberals felt about her then and still do.

[Smarmie Doofus]

38. I've brought up the analogy several times in conversation.

Usually when someone.... who ought to know better, imo.... says something like, "I just want to be able to vote for a *woman* just once before I die." in my presence.

Had you the choice then, I ask, would you have voted for Thatcher ( or Conservative) in the 80's ?

That usually stops 'em in their tracks. At least for a while.

It's also age-related. Probably doesn't work as well w. women in their 40's and younger. They generally ( I don't THINK; could be wrong!) don't know much if anything about Thatcher or even who she was.

Thank god for the Meryl Streep movie. Without it, no ONE of either sex, under 45 would know wtf Thatcher was.

OK... I overstate a bit. FEW people would know who she was.


Movie was a puff-piece, however. Shame on you, Meryl.

[antigop]

47. HRC: "If people have doubts about a woman, they should look at Margaret Thatcher or Angela Merkel

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/democrats/2548253/Hillary-Clintons-failed-strategy-inspired-by-Margaret-Thatcher.html

Aug 2008:

As late as March, however, Mrs Clinton was openly comparing herself to Lady Thatcher. "If people have doubts about a woman, they should look at Margaret Thatcher or Angela Merkel or other women who have been leaders of important countries - Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, my late friend Benazir Bhutto and so many others," she said in Toledo, Ohio in March.

The trumpeting of Lady Thatcher's qualities by Mr Penn, who has advised Gordon Brown and Tony Blair and is close to other senior Labour party figures, will confirm the suspicions of liberal Democrats that he and Mrs Clinton were out of step with the party's progressive wing and grassroots.

Joe Trippi, a veteran Democratic strategist who was a top adviser to the rival John Edwards campaign, said: "It's hard to run as Margaret Thatcher and be change. That was Hillary Clinton's whole problem.

"As a role model, it just goes against the grain and to try to map your strategy around that personality is not dealing with reality, both ideologically and in terms of the different era. Thatcher had the Falklands, George Bush had Iraq - we've got the exact opposite of the Thatcher situation."

[nenagh]

52. +1000

[dogknob]

48. When Thatcher died, "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" re-entered the British charts.

Here's a pic of the mourners in Leeds during the live simulcast of Thatcher's funeral:


...and here's the throng of mourners in Edinburgh:


...Glasgow:

[Metric System]

51. Hillary "It Takes A Village" Clinton and Margaret "There Is No Such Thing As Society" Thatcher have

little in common, besides their gender.

[Romulox]

55. Big Mike left a mark. Looks like Hillary needs to run him the Jewels!

I'm no respecter of persons
I'm no respecter of rules
I can't the Prince of England slipping
He gon' run me the jewels