Bernie and Bernice King

[dlwickham]

is he going to play the ignorance card like the republicans have when they've met with homophobic preachers?

Bernice King Defends Herself Against Anti-Gay Remarks

Bernice King, daughter of civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., in the current issue of Atlanta magazine defends herself regarding anti-gay remarks. The youngest of the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s children, and CEO of the King Center, has previously made headlines for saying that her father “did not take a bullet for same-sex marriage.”

Despite her mother Coretta Scott King’s support for LGBT equality, King is an ordained minister who led a protest against gay marriage, because of her personal beliefs.

She argues she is not homophobic and that she is “not the enemy,” because she has friends who are gay and lesbian. “She may not be the “enemy,” but her logic is deeply flawed,” according to Kimberley McLeod, founder and editor-in-chief of Elixher, the online destination for black queer women.

http://www.blackenterprise.com/news/bernice-king-anti-gay-remarks/

BTW, she's also anti-choice

[riderinthestorm]

1. Oh look, here's President Obama rallying with Bernice King

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Barack+Obama+Bernice+King+Washington+DC+Marks+4H9DDVUE0Mwl.jpg

[MADem]

53. He's not "rallying with her." She's with her family, attending a speech that HE is giving.

Wow--that's pretty shameful, that "He's rallying with HER" claim.

I believe that was HIS speech at the Lincoln Memorial. Not HER rally that he showed up at.

Puh-leeze.

[riderinthestorm]

63. Oh but they're in a photo together so yeah! Smear!!

Sorry but this latest meme is bullshit. Posing with, appearing with, supporting Bernice King is politics. You know it.

Obama invites Rick Warren to give the inaugural prayer? Puh-leeze right back atcha.

Or Hillary at the Saddleback Church with Rick Warren cause Obama gave him credibility?

Yeah.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+clinton+rick+warren&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS624US624&hl=en-US&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj65tnQnKjJAhUCCT4KHVfwAGcQ_AUICSgD#imgrc=2lpPBXetseZSFM%3A

[MADem]

67. Bernie went to Atlanta and sought her out. Some moron in his campaign arranged this photo op.

They were so thrilled to make the OOH MLK OOOH BLACK connection that they didn't research how TOXIC this woman is.

She is as UNLIKE her mother as she could possibly be.

If you think the black press hasn't noticed this unfortunate event, you're mistaken.

[riderinthestorm]

71. He went to the King Center which even you acknowledge is "bigger" than BK

Bernice King has photo ops with pretty much every person on the planet. Go ahead and Google.

This is a non-issue except for the latest talking point du jour. it's laughable.

If Obama, Bill Clinton, Muhammed Yunis etc etc etc have no problems posing for photo ops with
Bernice King, then it isn't a problem for Sanders.

A bigger problem are HRC's intensive involvements with war criminals like Kissinger and Netanyahu or the real bigots like Rick Warren.

[MADem]

127. He "met privately" with her. This wasn't just about a swing by the King Center.

He wants the endorsement of a bigoted anti-choice homophobe because he foolishly thinks it will help.

[notadmblnd]

214. Lol...

I find your statement quite humorous considering the recent turn of events.

It will be interesting to see how you walk this back or perhaps you've reconsidered your feelings in regard to Bernice King and those who associates themselves with her?

[treestar]

167. Rick Warren? Why is he any worse than Bernice King?

She specifically asserted that her father "did not take a bullet for gay marriage." It even implies MLK might have been against it had he lived to hear about it (given he was a preacher, that's possible).

She is against marriage equality! And she made the excuse that she has gay friends. That is usually universally condemned on DU.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/marriage-equality/2013/07/28/bernice-king-opposes-marriage-equality-im-not-enemy

Hell we are homophobes in DU circles here for continuing to support President Obama after he let Rick Warren give a prayer at his inauguration. So Bernice King should be under the bus and Bernie for associating with her.

[sabrina 1]

118. She can always evolve on Marriage Equality. She and Hillary were on the page just two years ago.

Maybe if she decides to run for office, that might help her evolve.

Bernie otoh, never needed to evolve, he was for Gay Rights all his life, because it was the right thing to do.

Another reason why I do not support Hillary. Her religious reasons for opposing Marriage equality. She's way too into that religion stuff like King, for me.

Politics and religion as Bernie pointed out recently, should not be mixed.

Anyhow, the point is that King and Hillary have similar views on this, and they probably would get along better than Bernie and King actually.

[MADem]

125. No, she can't. She thinks gay's a choice, she wants a constitutional ban on gay marriage, and

she's said her daddy didn't take a bullet so gays could get married.

AND she's anti-choice. Virulently.

But keep touting her. Do it early and often, if you'd like.

[Armstead]

204. A lot of AAs are socially conservative -- Not a problem except when Sanders is involved I guess

[MADem]

206. So, what you're saying, then, is that it's "OK" if Sanders associates with this lady because

her views are fine, or because it's cool for him to try to capture that "socially conservative" anti-gay/anti-choice" segment of the AA vote? Pandering is OK if Sanders does it? See how that works?

[Armstead]

210. It's a perennial dilemma for both candidates (all candidates actually)

Trying to attract a Big Tent of voters (and later governing in an inclusive way) by definition means you work with or accept support from people on issues you agree with, even though you might disagree on otehr issues. People don't fit into neat little boxes.

There aren't easy answers. Was Obama right or wrong to align himself with homophobic pastors in the beginning?

The problem currently is that there is an attempt to put sanders in a "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" position. As if Clinton is supposed to be immune from the same dilemmas.

Clinton has gone into overdrive in trying to appeal and draw support from the AA community. That's fine. She should. But a significant number hold views that are totally contrary to what she represents on social issues like abortion (and I deliberately used that word) because the socially liberal position runs contrary to their values and religious beliefs.

Does that mean she is supposed to stop attempting to attract AA support? Or should she have a litmus test for which segments of the AA community whose support she would welcome? Is she actively filtering out any contact with AA preachers or lleaders opr groups that might be conservative socially?

I ....don't....think ....so.

[yardwork]

150. They were nowhere close to being "on the same page."

[MaggieD]

205. You have a strange definition of

"Rallying with her." You mean being in the same physical space with her? LOL!

And wait, don't Bernie supporters hate Obama? Seems so from reading DU.

[Art_from_Ark]

2. So Bernie is not supposed to meet with anyone who holds an unfavorable view?

Even the daughter of one of America's most renowned civil rights leaders?

[dlwickham]

4. she's a homophobic bigot

who opposed to a woman's right to choose

why would he want to meet with someone like that

[Art_from_Ark]

6. Perhaps for the same reason he spoke at Liberty University

To try to talk some sense into his audience.

[dlwickham]

9. I don't think this was a speech

maybe I'm wrong but from what I've seen, he just met with her

[MrWendel]

61. Of all the Kings he could of had a Photo op with...

he went and choose her? Cornell West, now Bernice King? WTF?!?

[beam me up scottie]

10. Why did Bill meet with her? And why did Obama campaign with Rick Warren in 2008?

At least Bernie never opposed same sex marriage because of religious beliefs like Hillary.

If you're going to play that game Hillary was the one who made speeches imploring people to deny lgbt people equal rights.

And she also opposed late term abortions, Bernie has always been 100% pro-choice.

[dlwickham]

14. don't know

but it doesn't really matter

we're talking about Bernie not Obama and Bill

[beam me up scottie]

18. Hillary met with her too:

The former secretary of state is scheduled to speak at 11 a.m. Dec. 1. Other speakers include Alabama attorney Fred Gray, Sr., who represented civil rights heroine Rosa Parks and Montgomery Bus Boycott protesters; Paulette Brown, an attorney and the first black woman to head the American Bar Association; Benjamin Crump, the current NBA president and the attorney for the families of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown; Dr. Glenda Baskin Glover, president of Tennessee State University and international first vice president of the Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority; U.S. Rep. Terri Sewell, D-Birmingham; and the Rev. Bernice King, daughter of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/11/hillary_clinton_coming_to_alab.html

[malokvale77]

32. Oopsie. nt

[MADem]

57. Yeah, big OOPSIE.

The link doesn't support what the poster is claiming at all. Hillary Clinton was the headliner at a MLK Montgomery Bar Association event. Bernice was way down on the program, likely due to her relation to the hero they were honoring that day, and there were a shitload of other speakers there too.

HRC didn't seek out Bernice to "meet" her. They both traveled to AL as part of a commemorative event.

[Bluenorthwest]

177. Actually the Bar Assoc event has not yet taken place. Also actually, Bernie did not 'seek out'

Bernice, he met with the CEO of the King Center because that's who chose to meet him when he came to the Center. The King Center is inclusive and counts homophobia as equatable to racism in Center materials, starting on Page One of the King Philosophy. Bernice's influence has not removed the inclusive language from their website or other Center materials.
On the other hand, you praise the Pope on DU and he's anti gay, anti choice and his 'Center' has language about LGBT being 'disordered' and influenced by demons. Here is a thread in which you are thrilled that the anti gay and anti choice Pope got to preach against my family in our Congress:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=296104

[MADem]

179. Fair point--but he did seek her out, and he met privately with her.

It wasn't just a grip and grin, they had a private meeting AND a photo op.

Bernice apparently doesn't subscribe to the Center's POV. She wants a constitutional ban on gay marriage and she said her daddy didn't take a bullet so gay people could marry. She is rigorously anti-choice.

I don't 'praise the Pope' so you need to stop playing that game. I recognize him as a PLAYER and an influencer in the world but I would not for one solitary SECOND contemplate him as a good fit as President of the USA. So don't even try that false equivalancy routine! My delight in the Pope coming to address Congress was that the GOP wanted him here so badly, and he ended up taking THEM to church.

SMH. Context--it's a helluva thing.

[MADem]

56. Your link does not say what your subject line claims.

She was a speaker on a program honoring the BUS BOYCOTT in Alabama that included Bernice King. There are a shitload of names between hers and Bernice's, too.

Why do you pretend that the two are the same, when they are clearly different. He SOUGHT her out for a photo op. HRC was invited as a BAR ASSOCIATION speaker for a program with a larger purpose and the CONTEXT her presence was as part of a program honoring Dr. King. Further, she was the HEADLINER:

Hillary Clinton coming to Alabama to mark Montgomery Bus Boycott 60th anniversary


Hillary Clinton is set to headline a two-day event marking the 60th anniversary of the Montgomery Bus Boycott next week, when she's scheduled to give the keynote speech during a stop at the Dexter Avenue King Memorial Baptist Church. The speech is part of a tour organized by the National Bar Association to commemorate the civil rights movement.

Clinton's appearance in Alabama will be her second since declaring her candidacy for the Democratic nomination for president. She was in Hoover last month to give a speech before the Alabama Democratic Conference convention.

The former secretary of state is scheduled to speak at 11 a.m. Dec. 1. Other speakers include Alabama attorney Fred Gray, Sr., who represented civil rights heroine Rosa Parks and Montgomery Bus Boycott protesters; Paulette Brown, an attorney and the first black woman to head the American Bar Association; Benjamin Crump, the current NBA president and the attorney for the families of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown; Dr. Glenda Baskin Glover, president of Tennessee State University and international first vice president of the Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority; U.S. Rep. Terri Sewell, D-Birmingham; and the Rev. Bernice King, daughter of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

The church event was organized to inform attendees about the role attorneys played in the Montgomery Bus Boycott and the civil rights movement. It is among several events planned over a two-day period.

[dsc]

141. there is a difference between meeting with her alone

and with a bunch of other people (all of whom have stellar records on gay rights and choice). BTW this was a huge meeting over voting rights.

[beam me up scottie]

143. I know what the event was about, I'm not the one making a federal case out of it.

I'm glad Bernie met with her, if candidates subjected everyone they met with to a purity test they'd never meet with anyone.

From what I read it looks like Bernice King may be coming around about lgbt rights. More power to her.

If Hillary can evolve so can others.

[dsc]

145. but if Hillary meets with a banker privately that makes her SATAN

and that, in a nutshell, is our whole disagreement. You care about economics and only economics to the exclusion of anything else. I don't.

[beam me up scottie]

146. What the hell are you talking about? When did I say that?

You care about economics and only economics to the exclusion of anything else. I don't.

That's a lie, why would you say something like that?

What is it with Hillary supporters and false accusations?

At least when I make a claim I have something to back it up.

[dsc]

147. I know ye by your fruit

No you didn't type the words but your posts excude this. To give you one example. You have posted, repeatedly, a letter written by Sanders in 1972 or thereabouts that you say is about his support for marriage equality. Gays, even those whose passionately support Bernie (such as Bluenorthwest) have told you over and over and over again that the letter means no such thing. Yet you have posted it over and over and over again each time straightsplaining to us our own history. That exemplifies not caring about an issue rather well.

[beam me up scottie]

149. That's not true either, we've been over this.

The letter proves Bernie supported LGBT rights 40 years ago, not marriage equality.

I never once claimed he supported same sex marriage in 1972, Bluenorthwest knows that and so do you.

I challenge you to find one example of my making that claim.

And my posting history shows I've been an ally since I joined DU, in fact I was an ally since I was a child.

You don't get to make up shit about me and then declare that proves that I don't care about issues.


I'll expect an apology when you can't find an example.

[dsc]

158. whatever

of course more straightsplaning from you. You start an entire thread devoted to marriage equlaity with that letter but since you didn't say the magic words you are blameless. Again, your posting history in this forum speaks for itself and it speaks very, very, very loudly. No lack of magic words absolves you.

[beam me up scottie]

161. "whatever"? Translation: you lied about what I said and aren't a big enough person to admit it.

That speaks for itself, very very loudly.

[dsc]

162. By the way here is you doing, exactly and precisely what I said you did

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251651449

Seems like some people would like us to forget that Bernie voted against DOMA in 1996. And that he fought for lgbt rights decades ago.

Hillary said "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman".

Bernie never opposed same sex marriage, there is no "there" there.


Bernie Sanders Was for Full Gay Equality 40 Years Ago

Today’s Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.

Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.

There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)

In a letter he published in the early 1970’s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:

end of quote

Care to straightsplain some more. Care to call me a liar when you did what I said some more.

[beam me up scottie]

164. Where in that post did I say he supported marriage equality in 1972?

Your claim:

You have posted, repeatedly, a letter written by Sanders in 1972 or thereabouts that you say is about his support for marriage equality.

What I posted:

And that he fought for lgbt rights decades ago.

I didn't say what you claimed, in fact I was careful not to make that claim because it's false.

[Divernan]

106. Your "I don't know" is right on the mark!

[MADem]

69. Bill didn't "meet with her." He got an award from the King foundation and she presented it.

Obama was threading the needle on gay marriage back in the day--everyone knows that. And Rick Warren was a vote getter because of his personal tragedy. No one likes Bernice except the wingnuts.

But gay marriage is the law of the land now....and this woman is still in favor of a constitutional ban. AND she's ANTI-choice. Not "late term" (past tense OPPOSED, I notice) -- completely, totally, ANTI - CHOICE. Today. This minute. And he is standing with her.

Either he's too lazy to google, or he has lousy staff. Or both.

[beam me up scottie]

72. Maybe Bernie thinks if Hillary can evolve on marriage equality Bernice can as well.

Hillary's religious beliefs kept her from supporting same sex marriage but she eventually came around.

[MADem]

73. I think Bernie needs to evolve away from the homophobic bigot association.

This was a stupid meeting. The optics are horrible, and it's not going to help him with "Black America" any more than having Cornel West screaming at a bunch of white people at his rallies will help him.

Bernie didn't support same sex marriage in VT, either--he liked civil unions as late as 2006. Further, he said that workplace discrimination complaints by gay people were not a priority for him.

He was--and is--a STATES RIGHTS kind of guy on these issues. He has said he NOT a liberal, and I believe him.

So...what was that about evolving?

[beam me up scottie]

74. Hillary opposed it because she believed marriage was "between a man and a woman".

Let's watch that speech again, shall we?:

Your candidate gave speeches to try to convince people to oppose marriage equality, MADem.

Get back to me when you can prove that Bernie ever did anything as disgusting as that.

Until then your faux outrage against Bernie is just so much hot air.

[MADem]

76. No, let's not. She's not cozying up to homophobic bigots TODAY. Bernie IS.

We're talking about TODAY--not ancient history.

If we were talking ancient history, we could re-read Sanders' stupid theories on women's sexual fantasies, or his ideas about what causes cervical cancer.

But see, I understand when a candidate has evolved past dumb ideas, so my first instinct isn't to link to old shit as a defense against an opponent's problem that is happening TODAY.

And Sanders has a problem with optics...TODAY.

[beam me up scottie]

77. You are hilarious when you're reaching! And that pretzel logic is adorable!

I LOVE the caps and repetition, very forceful! I can tell you're totes seriose when you do that!

[MADem]

79. You keep repeating things I've already said. It doesn't help you prove your point.

I am not 'hilarious' -- I am right on point and it's bugging you, to the point that you're using teenspeak (totes seriose...really? How sad) and eating excessively!



Your candidate fucked up. He has lousy advisers.

[beam me up scottie]

83. Such outrage! Very authentic. Keep it up.

Funny how Hillary's supporters can forgive their own candidate's recent homophobic religious beliefs but are outraged by Bernie's meeting with Bernice King.

I'm betting that Bernice will eventually evolve on marriage equality, after all Hillary can't be the only religious person to do so.

[MADem]

92. I am not 'outraged.' But I do love your situational ire! nt

[riderinthestorm]

82. Oh ffs, she's an active member the Fellowship bible study groups!

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

She actively collaborates with known bigots, racists and homophobes.

You're sudden amnesia is to be commended for its unbelievable chutzpah

SMH

[beam me up scottie]

87. I wonder if that's where she got her religious beliefs against marriage equality from?

Well played, riderinthestorm, well played.

[riderinthestorm]

88. Geez

Half drunk with one arm tied behind my back



I'm off for the night. Carry on. I'm at the tail end of a long drive home (I'm a passenger, not the driver!!). I'll be wrapped up in real life for a while once my feet hit the ground, and then off to bed.

[beam me up scottie]

89. Have a good rest of the trip and get some well deserved sleep.

I'm in awe of your being able to do all that from a car, even if you aren't driving.

[MADem]

93. 2007--old, old links! Shall we pull up some old Sanders links, too? Hmmmm?

You know the GOP will.

Google Bernie and cervical cancer--you'll get an eyeful!

[Armstead]

211. People who support Clinton (or simply oppose sanders) are creating the "optics"

As I said in an OP a while back, basically Sanders and Clinton and O'Malley are on the same basic va,kues and goals when it comes to social issues.

There may be some variation in style or emphasis or specifics. But overall, they all are committed to the same principles of universal rights, gender equality and women's choice issues, basic gun control, etc. It's okay to debate the fine points to an extent, but it is not an overarching difference. Any of them would likely opursue the same basic liberal goals on social issues.

The real issues and debatable differences have to do with economics and wealth and power and the role of government.

This other crap of creating false distinctions on social issues -- such as Bernie has a problem with racial issues -- is being manufactured for political purposes, nothing more.

[MADem]

212. I don't think these issues are manufactured.

I think they are a way of distinguishing between similar candidates. I just wish people would be a little more civil when discussing them. I mean, they are what they are, and depending on who one supports, it's more or less important to them.

Sanders is a guy who has said that discrimination against gay people is "not a priority" for him, he supported "states rights" determinations for equality (full equality was "too divisive&quot etc., as recently as 2006. Now, it's fine that he has "evolved" on these issues, like many others have as well, he certainly deserves credit for that (no one has clean hands, here), but he tries to play it like he was always there when he absolutely was NOT always there. That's the bit that comes off as insincere. Further, when some in his camp like to snark about the whole "evolution" thing with reference to other candidates, they overlook the fact that he had a massive amount of evolving to do, himself. And sure, it's just "social issues," but if it's a social issue that affects you, or one of your loved ones, it becomes a much bigger deal. An old straight white man doesn't have to worry about #blm, or choice, or equality, until his black son in law gets stopped for DWB in front of his house, his gay son is denied or impeded in obtaining a marriage license by a bigoted clerk, or his granddaughter can't exercise her right to choose because she lives in an intolerant area of the country. It's one of those "Where you stand is where you sit" type things.

[Armstead]

215. I disagree (not surprisingly). Here's why.

He has a set of principles and values regarding economics, class and the distribution of wealth and power that many agree with (include many moderates and liberals, and even some conservatives) -- but which have been ignored by mainstream politics for several decades.

Because of that, he has generated a lot of enthusiasm among people who share his concerns most strongly. And because it's politics, and a victor is not settled by a coin toss, there has to be a basis of opposition from the other side.

And part of that is the Rovian tactic of trying to use a candidate's strengths against them. So the fact that Sanders has generated enthusiasm because he doesn't play the game like most politicians, and appeals to people's ideals, is twisted into St. Bernie crap -- the same as was done to Obama when he was running. It ignores the fact that most of his supporters recognize that he also a politician, isn't perfect, and sometimes does "play the game."

And taking that a step further, IMO the differences and arguments we have on DU -- and that occur elsewhere -- over those economic and power issues are totally real and legitimate. I may disagree with those who say he goes too far, but at least those are real differences and source of political discussion (as well as campaign salesmanship).

However, when Sanders is painted as oblivious -- or conservative on social issues, that's manufactured Rovian bullshit whose only purpose is to attempt to give another candidate a phony edge on those issues.

I would argue that overall, Sanders has always been far more progressive on social issues than most candidates. But even if he were just average like most politicians, this "problem" is just a deliberate distraction and diversion from the real issues and differences that matter. ....I should emphasize, that the "social issues" themselves are important -- but they are not what the differences are between the candidates.

For example, he has always supported gay rights -- even early on when it was more divisive, and potentially detrimental to his political career. Was he a leading champion of gay rights? No. But he has been more supportive than most over the years, because that is part of his basic value system.....His reluctance to strongly push for gay marriage does NOT mean he did not openly support them -- more than most politicians were willing to do. And if he sometimes softened the edges (states rights) well he was just being a politician without abandoning his principles.

And this racial claim is just total nonsense. ANYONE who has followed him for years recognizes that.....Is he John Lewis? No. But on the overall spectrum, has has, again, been far more supportive than most. BUT if he were just an average mealy-mouth waffling moderate Democratic politician, that wouldn't matter.

Yes, he has a problem winning over the black community. But it's not because of his record or commitment to racial justice. It's because he essentially came out of nowhere, is not the type that pepole warm to instantly. And he is competing against a political dynasty that has been cultivating AA support for years (except when they're doing the opposite as in 2008).

[MADem]

217. I was listening intently until you used the "Rovian tactic" term.

Not every honest assessment that treats your candidate realistically is a "Rovian tactic" and the discussion is cheapened when that kind of term is used.

For example, he did NOT "always support gay rights" if you consider that he said that gay workplace discrimination was "NOT A PRIORITY" for him. If that's "support" I think he could do better. I think many would agree with me.

It is not a "strength" when a candidate plays like they were "always THERE" and the truth is something very different, indeed. When you scratch the surface, the guy is just as political and calculating as everyone else. He's not a Great White Hope. Is he well-meaning, overall? Sure. Has he always been an "On The Barricades" type? Only on issues that interest him, and they are principally economic and deal with the chipping away at the "white working class man." That's his term, not mine. He has some good ideas, he has some pie-in-the-sky ideas, too, that sound good but will never see daylight, but he's not some "better other" that had clearer vision than anyone else. He's just not. Playing him up like he is all that is alienating to people who see that his vision doesn't really include them. They can come along for the ride, and pick up the crumbs, well, fine and dandy, but he doesn't address last hired/first fired issues and he doesn't address social justice issues that prevent economic justice in underserved neighborhoods. And he has a problem working/playing well with others in the House/Senate, that will be his undoing if he ever got elected (though I don't see that happening--if he beats Clinton, even Jeb! could beat him). It's not just the black community. It's his peers in Congress.

The "Rovian" shit will come later, when his early years get the Full Treatment. I'll leave that to the GOP. I'm sure they've already done the oppo, just in case. It's not that hard to do, even though just the surface stuff has reached the net to this point.

[Armstead]

219. OK overlook the RoVian word

The difference in the way I see him is that I've been paying attention to him for years.....and he won me over back when he was part of a very small contingent in DC who were actually talking about issues that should have been addressed more widely then.


He is not a garden variety politician....and if you read about his time as mayor he rolled up his sleeves and did a lot of unglsmorous stuff to serve undeserved people and neighborhoods....far more than even most small city mayors.....prosaic stuff like meeting with poor homeowners individually to make sure they applied for property tax exemptions they were entitled to....not flowery speeches

Obviously you aren't going to change your own impression....but the point is any blind spots he may have on some issues they are -' at the very least - no more than 90 percent of politicians...and far smaller than most

[MADem]

222. I remember him from his mayoral days. He was effective in a "small town" kind of way.

Those skills just don't translate to running the executive branch. There is none of that touchy-feely sleeve-rolly stuff, unless you're doing it for ten minutes for a photo op.

The entire state of VT has about as many people in it as the city of Boston--and Boston isn't a top-tier city in terms of population, student population notwithstanding--El Paso TX is almost twice as large.

He's got a great resume to be governor....of VT. Rural population, cities that would be called "small towns" in most other places, an homogenous population who are not, by and large, poor. Maybe he could try doing what the current Governor of VT failed at--figuring out how to make single payer affordable by not raising taxes so precipitously that it would start an exodus to Maine.

He's not ready for prime time, though, and given his age and his paucity of international experience, he never will be. These are difficult times--we don't need to have someone learning that end of things on the job.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

213. Interested in TODAY, are we?

Crank up your reverse-engineering machine. You're going to need it to change TODAY's history.

[moobu2]

122. Hillary supported civil unions and domestic partnerships for same sex couples

going back to at least the 1990's. It wasn't an ideal possition but there was hardly any political support for same sex marriage back at the time and Bernie Sanders said he thought it was a states rights issue while most states were denying same sex couples any rights whatsoever.

[beam me up scottie]

123. Separate but equal, how nice. She opposed ssm for religious reasons, just like Bernice King.

Hillary went on a one woman crusade against marriage equality, declaring over and over that it marriage was a "sacred bond" between "a man and a woman".

Referring to that as not being "an ideal position" is one hell of an understatement.

Like I said, I'm glad she finally came around, and it looks like Bernice may be following her lead.

[moobu2]

130. Bernie Sanders said he thought it was a states rights issue

and even though hardly any same sex couples could get any legal recognition anywhere in the USA, Bernie Sanders thought that was fine. Hillary did more for LGBT rights issues than Bernie Sanders ever dreamed about in his wildest imagination.

[beam me up scottie]

131. Bernie never went on a crusade to convince people to oppose marriage equality.

And by doing that Hillary did more to oppose LGBT rights than she did to support them.

I'm glad she evolved, it took her long enough but eventually she realized it was wrong to oppose civil rights.

Those homophobic religious beliefs don't go away overnight.

[moobu2]

133. Bernie Sanders said he thought same sex marriage rights were up to the states

at a time when almost no states allowed any legal recognition to same sex couples whatsoever. Bernie Sanders is a big phony.

[beam me up scottie]

135. That is a lie, Massachusetts had same sex marriage in 2004. Here is his quote from 2006:

I was a strong supporter of civil unions, I believe that. I voted against the DOMA bill, I believe that the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other state because I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue.

Same-sex marriages has been legally recognized in Massachusetts since May 17, 2004


Again, this is Bernie in 2006:

I believe that the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other state

Any idiot can see he didn't want the feds to overturn MA or any other states that passed same sex legislation.

Bernie Sanders is a big phony.

Someone is a big phony and it's not Senator Sanders.

[moobu2]

136. Bernie Sanders said he thought same sex marriage was a states rights issue

at a time when almost no same sex couples had any legal recognition. Anyway, Bernie Sanders will never be the nominee much less POTUS so it doesnt matter at all.

[beam me up scottie]

137. We just covered that, do you want me to post the facts for you again?

I can keep repeating it until it sinks in.


Here is Bernie's quote from 2006:

I was a strong supporter of civil unions, I believe that. I voted against the DOMA bill, I believe that the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other state because I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue.

Same-sex marriages has been legally recognized in Massachusetts since May 17, 2004


Again, this is Bernie in 2006:

I believe that the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other state

Any idiot can see he didn't want the feds to overturn MA or any other states that passed same sex legislation.

[moobu2]

138. "because I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue."

That's a direct quote from Saint Bernie himself. You just want to find some excuse for Saint Bernie you aren't willing to do for Hillary Clinton. Who cares? No one did anything to advance LGBT rights in any federal agency other than the State Department under Hillary Clinton. Saint Bernie never did shit besides run his mouth.

[beam me up scottie]

139. "I believe that the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts"

I know this is tough but let's try this again.

Massachusetts had same sex marriage in 2004, when asked about the feds being allowed to overturn states in 2006 Bernie said this:

I was a strong supporter of civil unions, I believe that. I voted against the DOMA bill, I believe that the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other state because I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue

See you have to read the ENTIRE quote or it doesn't make sense.

Do you understand what he was saying now?

Maybe your name calling and cursing is getting in the way, try to forget how much you hate the progressive Senator from Vermont and focus.

You can do it, I have faith in you.

[moobu2]

140. Yeah right. Make sure you put everything Saint Bernie says

in full context with explanations and excuses while you post bits and pieces of edited video clips trying to imply Hillary Clinton was a bigot.

Bernie Said "I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue" at a time when hardly any states gave any legal recognition to any same sex couples whatsoever and Saint Bernie was fine with that.

[beam me up scottie]

142. "bits and pieces of edited video clips"? Which part of this CSPAN video was edited?

[MADem]

184. MA was alone in 04. Bernie didn't want that for VT--in 2006. Said it would be "too divisive."

He's always been a STATES RIGHTS kind of guy. It's funny that he calls himself a socialist, because he has a lot in common with Grover Norquist and Ron Paul in this regard, with that whole 'Drown the fed in the bathtub' thing--at least when it comes to some social issues, like race/gender discrimination, marriage equality, etc. He'd rather 'defer to the states.'

Of course, he also has said that he's not a liberal--it's also funny that people just don't believe him when he says this. Looking at his stance on guns, that's not surprising.

[beam me up scottie]

191. LMAO! When you're losing badly always throw "GUNS" in there!

I understand why someone like you would prefer the person who virulently opposed same sex marriage because of religious reasons, after all you are a fan of the pope, but I'm glad that she evolved, really. And I'm happy for you, no need to keep twisting yourself into a pretzel because you prefer the more conservative candidate who supported DOMA and went on a crusade to prevent marriage equality.

And if Hillary can get past her homophobic religious beliefs Bernice can too.

I just prefer the progressive candidate to the self proclaimed moderate, I know Bernie won't be influenced by those kinds of bigoted religious beliefs.

[MADem]

193. THROW guns? Bernie brought the guns with him--something you're apparently not clear on, I see.

You prefer the losing candidate to the winning one, that's the bottom line. You'll find out soon enough.

[beam me up scottie]

194. And WINNING! Wasn't that Charlie Sheen's favourite line?

You get funnier with every post, is that deliberate?

[MADem]

196. I bring facts--if you think they're "funny" you go on and laugh all you want. Doesn't bother me.

I won't gloat when you're crying come Super Tuesday. You can file "Feel The Bern" next to "Kucinich can do it~!"

[beam me up scottie]

197. Is that what you think you're doing? That's adorable.

I brought the facts, you brought the spin. So you threw in some strawmen, red herrings and still in the end you have to admit you support the conservative candidate who opposed same sex marriage because of homophobic religious beliefs while pretending to be OUTRAGED that Bernie met with a person who has the same homophobic religious beliefs. And coming from a pope apologist that's even more ironic.

Why all this talk about crying? Did something upset you?

Feel better.

[riversedge]

216. Well Bernie evolved--on this issue so anything is possible

[Bluenorthwest]

202. Warren's 'personal tragedy' happened in 2013, death of his son. Obama's events were in 2008

and the Inaugural happened a couple of weeks after Warren publicly equated all gay couples to pedophiles and incest victims. Facts actually matter.

[MADem]

203. Take it up with Obama, then. He "hired" the guy--his goal was to give a slice to all

Americans. He knew Warren was liked by a big chunk of the public and he wanted to let them know via the inauguration ceremony process that they would be included in his Presidency.

Speaking of facts, the GOP members of Congress had not yet fired up their "Screw You" ways and that was a way of reaching out.

I suppose though, the point is fair--that if Warren made Obama "bad," then King puts the stink on Sanders. In for a penny, in for a pound.

[Bluenorthwest]

220. You are the one who claimed his personal tragedy was part of why Obama went to his Church

"Obama was threading the needle on gay marriage back in the day--everyone knows that. And Rick Warren was a vote getter because of his personal tragedy."

So I'm pointing out that your facts are not correct, you made that assertion about the 08 campaign while the 'personal tragedy' was in 2013. Obama did not do that, you did.

This is twice in this thread I have pointed out simple factual errors in your posts. The fact that you don't care if your facts are in order suggests exploitation of the issue rather than any actual positive advocacy on your part.

Your twisting of words about other people's rights and issues is like a Dance To Privilege.

[MADem]

221. Well, he was a vote getter, just not for the reason I gave you.

And he was also an influencer in the wingnut world and in the "Purpose Driven Life" group of acolytes. Obama used him to signal that he would listen to the concerns of all Americans.

If you think Obama would have otherwise given that guy the time of day, I have a bridge to sell.


And Warren? He clearly felt used and abused after a while. He didn't "feel the love" after a bit:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/28/rick-warren-obama-religious-liberty_n_2206064.html

[arcane1]

60. This is proof he's connecting with African Americans.

Under the Bus they go!

[MADem]

81. This is proof he's connecting with anti-choice homophobes. nt

[riderinthestorm]

84. Yeah then let's point to HRC's Fellowship bible studies

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

She actively collaborates with known bigots, racists and homophobes.

You're sudden amnesia is to be commended for its unbelievable chutzpah

SMH

[MADem]

90. Because mocking faith is ALWAYS a winner in electoral politics! Keep it up!

That'll bring people to your corner of the tent! Heckuvajob Brownie! She went to a Bible study--oh, the Huge Manatee!

You're gish galloping AWAY from the topic, doncha know! MORE links from 2007!!!

Why not address the issue, instead of playing the antique link/'Yeah but' card? Maybe because it's tough to defend the indefensible?



Gee, I could pull up old links about Bernie Sanders, too. Awful ones, that would make him the laughingstock of America--and if you think the GOP won't beat those like a rented mule, you've got some adjustments to make! You won't believe what he said caused cervical cancer. Go do the google--won't that be "fun" to refute in the general election?

Bernie Sanders, THIS VERY WEEK--not back in the last decade, or the last century--had a photo op with an anti-choice homophobe. This is likely because someone on his staff thought it would be a good idea for him to have a picture taken with a black woman who was related to MLK, and that staffer didn't bother to check that woman's bona fides.

This was a misstep. There will be blowback.

[artislife]

99. He meets with h, the warhawk

He is a people person, I guess.

[peacebird]

153. Bernie believes in meeting with people of all viewpoints, he spoke at Liberty U for petes sake.

Good grief but this is particular attempt Reeks of desperation

[riderinthestorm]

3. Oh and here's Bill Clinton accepting an award from Bernice King

at the King Center in January, 2015.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/clinton-to-be-honored-by-the-king-center-during-ml/njqnT/




Accepting an award from The King Center on Saturday, former President Bill Clinton spoke of a modern “beloved community” — King’s vision for a world achieved through peaceful nonviolence — to inspire youth and curb global acts of terror.

Referencing recent attacks, Clinton spoke of the dangers in a “shame-based” cultures, saying “they are a curse on the young.”

“The young need to believe, and they need to believe somebody’s got their back and wants them to live up to their God-given capacity,” he said. “We must stop raising them in shame and raise them in pride.”

On Saturday he received the center’s highest honor, the Salute to Greatness Award, for his work with The Clinton Foundation and the Clinton Global Initiative.

[bigwillq]

5. Give 'em hell, rider.

Lol.

[dlwickham]

7. when Bill runs for president, I'm sure this will be an issue

until then, it was Bernie who met with her

did he or didn't he know her views on gay rights and abortion?

[riderinthestorm]

19. It means they consider her homophobic views irrelevant and her presence important

thats what it means.

As BMUS says above, Obama pals around and fucking honors Rick Warren.

[dlwickham]

24. so you're okay with a candidate in 2015 who appears to pander to bigots

for votes?

I'm trying to understand why people aren't offended in 2015 by a Democratic presidential candidate appearing in public with a known bigot

[riderinthestorm]

29. How about HRC loving her some war criminal Netanyahu

http://forward.com/opinion/national/324013/how-i-would-rebuild-ties-to-israel-and-benjamin-neta/

How I would Reaffirm Unbreakable Bond with Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu

Bernice King pales to insignificance with HRC's love fest with a known war criminal

[dlwickham]

34. if you'd like to start a thread about Hillary and Netanyahu feel free

I'm not sure if Bernie is any further left on Israel than she is though

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2014/08/20/answering-question-on-israel-bernie-sanders-tells-townhall-hecklers-to-shut-up/

[riderinthestorm]

37. Hillary's gonna get her war hawk on. Sure you want to go there?

I will do everything I can to enhance our strategic partnership and strengthen America’s security commitment to Israel, ensuring that it always has the qualitative military edge to defend itself. That includes immediately dispatching a delegation of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to meet with senior Israeli commanders. I would also invite the Israeli prime minister to the White House in my first month in office.

The dangers facing both our nations in the Middle East require bold and united responses. We must remain committed to preventing Iran from ever acquiring a nuclear weapon, and to vigorously enforcing the new nuclear agreement. I would move to step up our partnership to confront Iran and its proxies across the region, and make sure dangerous Russian and Iranian weapons don’t end up in Hezbollah’s hands or threaten Israel.

Read more: http://forward.com/opinion/national/324013/how-i-would-rebuild-ties-to-israel-and-benjamin-neta/#ixzz3sNZDuX9z

She's committed to begin war in the first month of office. Any attempt to tar Bernie Sanders as the same level as HRC is grotesque in the extreme.

Were you ok with Obamas "pandering" to BK? Or that HRC is hosting an event with BK?

[MADem]

94. What does all that gish galloping have to do with Sanders meeting PRIVATELY with an anti-choice

homophobe?

[artislife]

102. We actually like this thread.

We like the dancing.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

152. Might as well self-delete. After post 18 showing Hillary met with her too, your attempted talking

point is dead in the water.

[840high]

51. She considers Bush family as hers.

[beam me up scottie]

64. Exactly, Bush is a war criminal but Bernie meets with King and it's ZOMGWTFBBQ???

[beam me up scottie]

33. Who is that pals around with Kissinger again?

[dlwickham]

36. we're talking Bernie and Bernice King

if you're not upset that he met with a known bigot, then I'd like to know why

[beam me up scottie]

47. Don't you think a war criminal is worse than MLK's daughter?

I don't like that he met with a homophobe but maybe Bernie believes King will evolve out of her homophobia like Hillary did.

[MADem]

95. Don't you think an anti-choice homophobe (the topic here--try sticking to it) is a bad look for a

cough-PROGRESSIVE-cough candidate?

[beam me up scottie]

96. Did the Family advise Hillary to oppose marriage for religious reasons?

And did they also advise her to oppose late term abortions?

At least I know my candidate won't be influenced by such powerful Christian bigots.

[MADem]

97. Gish gallop! Keep trying to push that rock up the mountain--it'll roll back down over you!

Your candidate met privately with Bernice, and said--in 2006, mind you--that same sex marriage in Vermont was "too divisive."

So, yeah, you know your candidate....not.

Since you like 'candidate history' so much, here's some for you. It "marries" well with his meeting his good buddy Bernice (one of those Christian bigots you mentioned).....

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html

Ten years later, Sanders took a similarly cautious approach to same-sex marriage. In 2006, he took a stand against same-sex marriage in Vermont, stating that he instead endorsed civil unions. Sanders told reporters that he was “comfortable” with civil unions, not full marriage equality. (To justify his stance, Sanders complained that a battle for same-sex marriage would be too “divisive.”) At the time, he also opposed a federal anti-gay-marriage amendment—but so did his Republican opponent for the Senate seat, Richard Tarrant, who also supported civil unions. With a wide lead in the polls and little at stake, Sanders declined to differentiate himself from his opponent by taking the lead on gay rights.

Earlier in his political career, Sanders was even more indifferent toward gay rights: As mayor of Burlington in 1990, Sanders told an interviewer that LGBT rights were not a “major priority” for him. Asked if he would support a bill to protect gays from job discrimination, Sanders responded, “probably not.” That was 25 years ago. Sanders has, no doubt, come a long way since then: The senator endorsed Vermont’s successful Marriage Equality Act in 2009 and has cheered the Supreme Court’s marriage rulings. And he is co-sponsoring the Equality Act, a sweeping federal LGBT rights bill that advocacy groups place high on their post-marriage agenda.

Still, Sanders’ exaggeration of his marriage equality record is strange and unwise. If Sanders were honest about his evolution—and, yes, it was an evolution—then he could still brag about supporting marriage equality long before his chief primary rival. Instead, he has attempted to reframe his somewhat tepid support as vociferous and unabating. The LGBTQ community can surely forgive Sanders’ less-than-spotless record on gay rights—but that process can only begin once he’s honest about it. And in the Democratic candidates’ race to secure the gay community’s vote, honesty has been in surprisingly short supply.

He loves playing the "I was there" game....even when he wasn't.

[beam me up scottie]

98. I've seen that before, where does it get into Hillary and her religious bigotry?

[MADem]

101. Bernie was opposing gay marriage for VT in 2006!

Stop trying to pretend he has clean hands on this issue--he doesn't!

He said it was "too divisive." He was a STATES RIGHTS kinda guy on the issue.

Everyone knows this but you, apparently.

[beam me up scottie]

103. Hillary opposed marriage equality because of her bigoted religious beliefs.

That's why she gave all those speeches, to try to convince others to oppose it as well.

Honestly, I'm glad she finally came around, and from what I understand it sounds like Bernice King may be evolving too.

I guess there's hope for all religious homophobes.

[MADem]

109. Oh really? What's Bernie's excuse? And why is he meeting privately with a bigoted homophobe

who opposes choice for women?

[beam me up scottie]

111. He never declared marriage was "between a man and a woman", that was Hillary.

Since we're discussing the candidates the real question is why was Hillary so adamantly opposed for so long and why did she try to convince others to oppose it as well?

Sounds like she and Bernice have a lot in common, apparently she is evolving just like Hillary.

[MADem]

112. No, but he said that it was "too divisive" for Vermont!

And he said that discrimination against gays wasn't a priority for him, either!

What a pal! Sounds like he has a lot in common with Bernice...which is why they met 'privately' in addition to posing for pictures together!

Yay for the Sanders alliance with the homophobic anti-choicer...in 2015?



See, I can do 'history' too. I think the LGBT community wants to know where a candidate is at today, and meeting with Bernice ain't a good look for "The Bern."

I think his staff 'burnt' him.

[beam me up scottie]

113. Hardly the same thing as crusading against marriage equality for religious reasons.

If they can get past Hillary's history of extreme opposition to same sex marriage I think they will understand why Bernie would meet with MLK's daughter, especially since she was very inclusive in her speech.

Have faith, if your candidate can evolve so can Bernice King.

Bernice King’s gay-inclusive speech at MLK rally surprises LGBT participants
By Dyana Bagby

Atlanta — Bernice King took the stage today at Atlanta’s annual Martin Luther King Jr. rally and included gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people among the various groups she said need to come together to fulfill her father’s legacy.

In a passionate, sermon-like speech about building unity, King said she didn’t care if people were Hindu, Buddhist, Islamist, were from the North side or the South side, were black or white, were “heterosexual or homosexual, or gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender” — that all people were needed to create unity.

LGBT people who attended the rally said they were shocked that King – who has a long anti-gay past — actually acknowledged the community in a public speech, but said they were also glad because it shows people can evolve.

Rev. Maressa Pendermon, a minister with LGBT-inclusive Unity Fellowship Church, said she at first intended to tune out King because of her anti-gay past, but decided to pay attention one more time.

For her father’s vision to be realized we’ve got to come together across boundaries and then she got in preacher mode. Then she said ‘heterosexual or homosexual,’ and then backed up and said ‘lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender.’ We need all of us,” Pendermon said.

...

Paulina Helm-Hernandez, the LGBT honorary grand marshal for today’s march and rally, said she also was surprised to hear King’s inclusive words.

“I thought it was great. First time I’ve ever heard her say lesbian, gay, bi and trans out loud,” she said. “She said homosexual at first and then corrected herself. It takes a lot of grace to do something like that when you’re on a roll.”

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2012/01/bernice-kings-gay-inclusive-speech-at-mlk-rally-surprises-lgbt-participants/

[MADem]

114. No, it's worse--he's claimed that he was "always there." And he wasn't. So what else is he

prevaricating about?


Bernice isn't going to evolve. She really believes that homosexuality is a choice and her father didn't take a bullet for gay marriage. These are recently articulated views.

[beam me up scottie]

116. If Hillary can come around so can Bernice King, religious beliefs aren't easy to shed.

Maybe you should start a thread in the LGBT group and ask them how they feel about politicians who oppose same sex marriage for religious reasons.

[sleepyvoter]

170. I don't think you understand the meaning of Gish Gallop.

All I'm seeing is Bernie supporters giving you facts and history of Clinton. That's factual evidence, not Gish Gallop.

The Gish Gallop is the debating technique of drowning an opponent in such a torrent of small arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer or address each one in real time. More often than not, these myriad arguments are full of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments — the only condition is that there be many of them, not that they be particularly compelling on their own.

[SidDithers]

175. ...

Sid

[MADem]

189. Small arguments, from many people--including "Welcome To DU" you!

Aren't you quick out of the gate, you galloper, you!

[Bluenorthwest]

159. MADem on anti-choice homophobe Pope Francis:

"Gotta wish this Argentine Firecracker of the Vatican some good health and long life--he's got to be the one to get it done!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218113334

You have praised and defended an anti choice homophobe on DU regularly, aggressively and endlessly when promoting Francis.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014968195#post6

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113463372


This could take up pages and pages. You are not the only one either, DU is pretty much in Camp Francis, anti-choice homophobic activist.

[MADem]

180. Show me where I touted FRANCIS for POTUS, why don't you?

Your frantic desperation is showing, to the point you're doing searches and trying to find a few sentences where I take great joy in seeing the Pope stick it to wingnuts and piss off the entrenched.

I do not support FRANCIS for POTUS. Why are you comparing him to Bernie? Hmmmm? Could it be because you can't respond to the actual issues here?

I object to Bernice King's homophobia and anti-choice views, and I don't think she is a good fit to "get out the black vote for Bernie." She is a good fit if he's looking for the homophobic, anti-choice vote for Bernie.

So--is that what you want? Homophobes for Sanders? Anti-Choicers -- FEEL THE BERN?

[arcane1]

181. Nobody is touting Bernice King for president either n/t

[MADem]

182. But Sanders wants her as a surrogate. Show me Francis campaigning for any US politician.

He limits his political partisanship to Argentina.

Sanders has made a structural error with this "private meeting." He's associating with the wrong sorts.

[arcane1]

183. You have an advantage over me: I don't know what went on in the private meeting n/t

[MADem]

185. It's obvious he's sending a signal with this meeting. I think he's telling gay people and

pro-choicers that he's taking them for granted. He might want to re-calibrate.

[arcane1]

187. Another, far more likely possibility, is that you're making it up.

[MADem]

188. And that's why you're laughing so much over something that isn't very funny.

Hey, he can do what he wants. He needs to understand that actions have consequences, though! Serious ones, too!

[malokvale77]

39. Apparently you are.

From #18 - bmus reply to you:

The former secretary of state is scheduled to speak at 11 a.m. Dec. 1. Other speakers include Alabama attorney Fred Gray, Sr., who represented civil rights heroine Rosa Parks and Montgomery Bus Boycott protesters; Paulette Brown, an attorney and the first black woman to head the American Bar Association; Benjamin Crump, the current NBA president and the attorney for the families of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown; Dr. Glenda Baskin Glover, president of Tennessee State University and international first vice president of the Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority; U.S. Rep. Terri Sewell, D-Birmingham; and the Rev. Bernice King, daughter of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/11/hillary_clinton_coming_to_alab.html

I bolded the relevant name.

[riderinthestorm]

43. Oh looky, here's Hillary Clinton with Rick Warren!

https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+clinton+rick+warren&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS624US624&hl=en-US&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjOzKuEm6jJAhWHox4KHU9iD7EQ_AUICSgD#imgrc=2lpPBXetseZSFM%3A

http://www.christianpost.com/news/clinton-s-gutsy-church-appearance-softens-evangelicals-30293/

[beam me up scottie]

48. She met with Rick Warren? He's much worse than King.

I wonder what the op thinks about their candidate meeting with a known bigot?

[riderinthestorm]

50. Yeah, I think the OP is conveniently going to bed now

SMH

Honestly, latching onto THIS talking point is probably one of the worst for them.

No outrage over cozying up to Kissinger or Netanyahu (and Rick Warren ffs!), nope gotta latch onto Bernice King as the outrage du jour

Sick

[beam me up scottie]

52. He's not campaigning with her so it's just a transparent attempt to associate him with bigotry.

Being outraged over a meeting with MLK's daughter - how obvious can you get?

Good work, btw, excellent research!

[riderinthestorm]

55. It's silly that a photo op with Bernice King translates into such a smear

Maybe we should post pics of every shitty leader HRC has posed with/met with. HRC with Trump at his wedding? The Bush clan who think of Bill as a brother?

My phone won't let me post pictures tonight and I've got miles to go til I'm home but feel free to upload a photo of HRC with known racist/homophobic/bigot Trump.

Easy to puncture the false memes

[beam me up scottie]

59. Kissinger, Trump, George Bush the war criminal, where is all the POUTRAGE over those meetings?

Politics is politics, the candidates can't subject every person they meet with on the campaign trail to a purity test, they'd never meet with anyone.

This whole thread is absurd and to their credit most Hillary supporters realized it and didn't jump on the bandwagon.

[artislife]

100. Hee

Keep dancing

[MADem]

58. The King Center is way bigger than Bernice, you know. Or maybe you don't.

In fact, Bernice barely gets along with her siblings.

[riderinthestorm]

68. Exactly! Agreed which is why this current poutrage is ridiculous

[MADem]

70. No....which is why his STAFF could have arranged for him to meet with one of the "More Like Coretta"

Kings, and not the homophobic bigot.

[riderinthestorm]

75. Why? He's got Obama, Bill Clinton and a host of other global players posing with her

Even more so they're feasting and celebrating with her.

She's not toxic.

Try again

How about that pic with Hillary and Rick Warren? Cute eh?

https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+clinton+rick+warren&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS624US624&hl=en-US&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj65tnQnKjJAhUCCT4KHVfwAGcQ_AUICSgD#imgrc=2lpPBXetseZSFM%3A

It's when she "pandered" at Saddleback Church. Nice.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/clinton-s-gutsy-church-appearance-softens-evangelicals-30293/

[MADem]

78. That's just not true. You keep making a false claim. NO one save BS "sought out Bernice."

She was just a face in the crowd. YOU need to "try again"--you are not proving your point. Sanders went to Atlanta and he had a photo op WITH HER. Not with her brothers, cousins, or any one else--with HER. Ewww. She is a well known homophobe. She is well known for her anti-choice views. She is not a mover and shaker, her reach into the electorate is narrow in the extreme.

He hurt himself with this and he has his advisors to 'thank.'

And wow--RICK WARREN attended the very same "GLOBAL SUMMIT on AIDS" as Clinton did--and you're trying to play the equivalence game? That's what your picture link is from.

See how hard you're trying to reach? It's so .... OBVIOUS!!!!!!

And as for Saddleback? EVERYONE went that year (pssst--that was 2007). Surely you remember? Had Bernie been running, he would have gone, too.

[riderinthestorm]

86. He went to the King Center. Try again

You're desperately trying to paint a photo op - of which Bernice King has millions with every global leader on the planet - as some nefarious thing.

Feel free to have the last word here. Youre not worth the effort

[MADem]

91. No--he "met privately with Bernice King." YOU try again!

http://news.yahoo.com/sanders-invokes-mlk-legacy-aims-black-support-210227511--election.html

Hours before the Fox rally, Sanders met privately with one of King's children, Bernice King. The pair paid their respects at her parents' tomb as passages of King's famous "I Have a Dream" speech played in the courtyard of the King Center for Nonviolent Social Change.

The pair! See what his staffers did to him? That was not a slick move at all...

[Bluenorthwest]

176. He met with the CEO of the King Center, elected by their board. They put Bernice in charge.

If her family did not support her, she'd not be the CEO of the King Legacy. The point of view you are promoting here suggests that any attendance of the King Center is in honor of Bernice, and thus no LGBT persons, black or otherwise, should visit or take part in the King Center events, in spite of the inclusive language used by the Center itself and in spite of the rather massive gay legacy of Bayard Rustin, so very intertwined with the life of Dr Martin Luther (not Bernice) King Jr. I find it reprehensible and also very ironic from such a strong promoter of the Pope, anti gay and anti choice world leader on a level Bernice can only dream of....

[MADem]

190. She does NOT run that joint. She sued her brothers. They "tolerate" her at best.

What she has is a TITLE that was invented to provide her a place. She's not the boss up in there. If anything, she's like the one who has to carry out the orders of the Chairman and President.

She's an "administrator." In the paper-pushing, pay the staff, arrange the work schedule way....

Here--straight from the horse's mouth:

[link:http://www.thekingcenter.org/news/2012-01-bernice-king-appointed-new-ceo-king-center|Bernice A. King Appointed New CEO at King Center
]1/9/2012 King Center News


ATLANTA . . . The Board of Trustees of The King Center has appointed Bernice A. King as the new chief executive officer of The King Center, it was announced today. Mr. Dexter Scott King will continue to serve as chairman of the Board and Martin Luther King III remains the president of The King Center. The Board’s action will strengthen the office of the president to more effectively address external affairs on behalf of The King Center and enable the office of the chief executive officer to more efficiently focus on The King Center’s internal administrative matters.

All of the OUTREACH stuff is done by Dexter and Martin III. She has NO power. She pays the utility bills, tells the maintenance man to clean the gutters, and makes sure that the filing and typing get done. She does 'internal' stuff, not external, and is not responsible for the direction the center is taking--and good thing. She has a hateful heart. Her brothers created a title for her, and gave her a job. Apparently they're more like their mother and that's a relief. The center would crater if she were left to determine its direction.

You keep waving that Pope card like you think it is working. They should hook you up to the grid, you'd generate a kilowatt or two, you're trying so damn hard!


Which Presidential candidate is he touting, again?

Speaking of the Pope, he did ANOTHER thing I think was pretty cool-- he was just out on the balcony saying that Christmas was bullshit so long as the world was at war. This Pope does say a few things I think make sense--that's one of 'em.

[Bluenorthwest]

160. His staff does not run the King Center. Attempts to control their actions would be naff.

They sent Bernice, or Bernice sent Bernice. Her presence and power in that organization is due to her family, not to Bernie Sanders nor his staff.
You claim he should have ordered them about, at the King Center?

[riderinthestorm]

8. Here's Hillary Clinton with Bernice King at a Montgomery Bus Boycott commemoration

The former secretary of state is scheduled to speak at 11 a.m. Dec. 1. Other speakers include Alabama attorney Fred Gray, Sr., who represented civil rights heroine Rosa Parks and Montgomery Bus Boycott protesters; Paulette Brown, an attorney and the first black woman to head the National Bar Association; Benjamin Crump, the current NBA president and the attorney for the families of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown; Dr. Glenda Baskin Glover, president of Tennessee State University and international first vice president of the Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority; U.S. Rep. Terri Sewell, D-Birmingham; and the Rev. Bernice King, daughter of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/11/hillary_clinton_coming_to_alab.html

[dlwickham]

11. did Hillary meet one on one with her

[riderinthestorm]

15. Lol! If you don't think she did, I've got a bridge to sell you

There's a slew of photos the Clinton campaign have at their disposal, I guarantee you to trot out as necessary.

[dlwickham]

20. trot them out

[riderinthestorm]

23. I don't have to

You look up the event and find them. There's no question HRC and Bernice King hosted the event.



You know it. I've made my point, Bernice King isn't radioactive - in fact she's embraced by leaders around the globe.

Sanders' photo shoot is as politically "risky" as Obama's, or Bill Clinton's, or Muhammed Yunis or...(insert your favorite global leader here)

[dlwickham]

28. the event hasn't happened yet

and I did look it up

This is from the link you provided

The speech is part of a tour organized by the National Bar Association to commemorate the civil rights movement.

Clinton's appearance in Alabama will be her second since declaring her candidacy for the Democratic nomination for president. She was in Hoover last month to give a speech before the Alabama Democratic Conference convention.

The church event was organized to inform attendees about the role attorneys played in the Montgomery Bus Boycott and the civil rights movement. It is among several events planned over a two-day period.

[MADem]

62. She gave a speech for the BAR ASSOCIATION. Keep struggling, though!

The program was packed with speakers. She was the headliner. The event honored MLK so it's not shocking that BK was there. But Hillary didn't "seek her out." She didn't go to Atlanta and pose for pictures with her. They were on the same program at an MLK event. IN ALABAMA.

I'd be surprised if you didn't see Bernice at a load of MLK events. It's how she makes her money, telling people that her daddy didn't take a bullet for gay marriage (and that's pretty much a quote).

She's a bigot who opposes choice. A real "liberal" ally....not.

[Bluenorthwest]

171. Except that the event has not yet happened, it is in the future, a speech she will give not one she

already gave. You don't even have the basic facts correct but that does not stop the CAPS and the tone of extreme certainty. It's December 1st, the speech. This is Nov 24th.

[riderinthestorm]

12. Who else would you like me to post that's canoodled with Bernice King?

Go ahead, name someone and I'll find the link.

You know why? Because everyone goes to see Bernice King despite her positions (which she shares with a substantial number of AAs. Want that link too?)

This positioning of Bernie Sanders as some kind of homophobic bigot because he's taken the chance to have a visit with Bernice King is pretty despicable.

[bigwillq]

13. Donald Duck

[riderinthestorm]

35. Ask and he shall receive! Even got Bill and Chelsea!!

https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+clinton+disney+donald+duck&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS624US624&hl=en-US&prmd=ivsn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1sZ2PmKjJAhWCyj4KHcDBAuAQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=QIvd-mxKCBn4IM%3A

My phone isn't letting me post pics! Feel free to figure it out and put it up on this ridiculous thread.



(It's actually a very, very sweet family picture!!)

[bigwillq]

151. Fantastic!

It is a sweet pic.

[dlwickham]

17. all I want to know is whether or not Bernie knew about her bigotry

I never said anything about him being a bigot

[riderinthestorm]

26. I'm sure he does. Do you think Obama knew about Rick Warren's bigotry

when he invited him to give the fucking inaugural prayer?!

You cool with that?

I love Obama so don't play THAT card with me.

Politicians make nice with folks they'd probably far rather kick in the ass.

Far more disturbing to you should be pics of Clinton making nice with war criminal Netanyahu. Now THAT'S disturbing

[dsc]

144. I was pissed at that at the time

and spoke loudly and longly about it.

[malokvale77]

42. Twisting in the wind. nt

[riderinthestorm]

46. Here's Hillary laughing it up with Rick Warren

https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+clinton+rick+warren&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS624US624&hl=en-US&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj65tnQnKjJAhUCCT4KHVfwAGcQ_AUICSgD#imgrc=2lpPBXetseZSFM%3A

That's her appearance at his Saddleback church doncha know...doing some, I dunno, POLITICKING!

http://www.christianpost.com/news/clinton-s-gutsy-church-appearance-softens-evangelicals-30293/

[840high]

54. Cozy.

[artislife]

104. Lolz...

Thank you riderinthestorm. You have single handedly crushed this OP.

[Cha]

16. "..has previously made headlines for saying that her father “did not take a bullet for same-sex

marriage.”

That's just sad.

[dlwickham]

21. and Coretta Scott King was a vocal supporter of GLBT rights

I'm thinking Dr. King would have been as well if he was alive today

[Cha]

22. I bet MLK would be.. where in the world did their youngest daughter go wrong?

and, berni's meeting with her? What's up with that.. going for the anti-Gay vote?

[dlwickham]

25. I think it's called pandering

I may be wrong though

[Cha]

27. Very. Majorly tone deaf.. same with campaigning with cornel west.

[dlwickham]

30. do people actually know who West is

is he still relevant?

[Cha]

40. African American supporters of Pres Obama do.. and they're not amused.

[dlwickham]

41. as well they shouldn't be

have a good night; it's past my bedtime

[Cha]

45. It's evening out here on Kauai~

Sweet Dreams, dlw~

[beam me up scottie]

31. This was sad too:

[dlwickham]

38. it was

thank goodness she's come out in favor of full rights for the LGBT community

[beam me up scottie]

44. Maybe Bernie is hoping King will evolve like Hillary did.

If Hillary can come around on civil rights she can too.

[brooklynite]

65. Has he challenged any of her positions, like he has Hillary Clinton's?

[beam me up scottie]

66. You'll have to ask him next time he meets with you.

[brooklynite]

80. My questions would be focused on how he plans to win an Election against the Republicans...

...given the likelihood of being outspent 4-1.

[Bluenorthwest]

166. Bernice is a minister, not a politician. She has beliefs, not positions. Challenges to her come from

the community whose rights she opposes and more specifically those challenges at their best come from LGBT persons of color who are the persons most likely to endure bigotry encouraged by her.

[bravenak]

49. I think this is common knowledge

[Divernan]

120. And you perpetuate the falsehood w/ this post? Shame on you!

Bernice King’s gay-inclusive speech at MLK rally surprises LGBT participants
By Dyana Bagby

Atlanta — Bernice King took the stage today at Atlanta’s annual Martin Luther King Jr. rally and included gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people among the various groups she said need to come together to fulfill her father’s legacy.

In a passionate, sermon-like speech about building unity, King said she didn’t care if people were Hindu, Buddhist, Islamist, were from the North side or the South side, were black or white, were “heterosexual or homosexual, or gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender” — that all people were needed to create unity.

LGBT people who attended the rally said they were shocked that King – who has a long anti-gay past — actually acknowledged the community in a public speech, but said they were also glad because it shows people can evolve.

Rev. Maressa Pendermon, a minister with LGBT-inclusive Unity Fellowship Church, said she at first intended to tune out King because of her anti-gay past, but decided to pay attention one more time.

For her father’s vision to be realized we’ve got to come together across boundaries and then she got in preacher mode. Then she said ‘heterosexual or homosexual,’ and then backed up and said ‘lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender.’ We need all of us,” Pendermon said.

...

Paulina Helm-Hernandez, the LGBT honorary grand marshal for today’s march and rally, said she also was surprised to hear King’s inclusive words.

“I thought it was great. First time I’ve ever heard her say lesbian, gay, bi and trans out loud,” she said. “She said homosexual at first and then corrected herself. It takes a lot of grace to do something like that when you’re on a roll.”

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2012/01/bernice-kings-gay-inclusive-speech-at-mlk-rally-surprises-lgbt-participants/

[bravenak]

121. Falsehood? This is common knowledge

Magazine in its upcoming August issue that while she opposes marriage equality, she isn't homophobic.

"People have labeled me homophobic. If I was homophobic, I wouldn't have friends who are gay and lesbian, so that can't be true," she said, according to the report. "But because I have a certain belief system, I am now the enemy. And I'm not the enemy. I have love for everybody, period."

King went on to say she believes marriage should be only between a man and a woman. "Spiritually I value that. Psychologically I value that. I know that the absence of my father in my life had its cost."

The late Coretta Scott King was outspoken in favor of equal rights for LGBT Americans, and noted that her husband sympathized with Bayard Rustin, the gay man who aided his civil rights work.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/marriage-equality/2013/07/28/bernice-king-opposes-marriage-equality-im-not-enemy

[Divernan]

124. Ah, so only Hillary is allowed to evolve on this issue?

"Confusion now hath made his masterpiece."
Macbeth, Act II, Scene III

[bravenak]

126. Did she actually evolve? Is she in favor of gay marriage now?

Can you get a link to her change of heart? I have not seen that.

[Divernan]

128. That was the interpretation of LGBT people in Atlanta.

Atlanta — Bernice King took the stage today at Atlanta’s annual Martin Luther King Jr. rally and included gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people among the various groups she said need to come together to fulfill her father’s legacy.

In a passionate, sermon-like speech about building unity, King said she didn’t care if people were Hindu, Buddhist, Islamist, were from the North side or the South side, were black or white, were “heterosexual or homosexual, or gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender” — that all people were needed to create unity.

LGBT people who attended the rally said they were shocked that King – who has a long anti-gay past — actually acknowledged the community in a public speech, but said they were also glad because it shows people can evolve.

as posted w/link earlier in thread.

I hope you won't be a purist because she didn't specifically mention gay marriage - she called out to include all LGBT peoples - will you insist on still labeling her homophobic?

[bravenak]

132. I never labeled her as homophobic. The Gay community can decide that.

I jusy have not heard her change her mind on gay marriage. She is a very clear speaker and if she says she is for it, it will be clear.

[Scootaloo]

85. Oh oh, here it comes. Bernie's a homophobe-by-association

[Truprogressive85]

105. Really we doing association game ?

How did associating Obama with Ayers and Rezko, and Rev. Wright work in 2008

[Divernan]

107. OP tried but failed miserably & w/great embarassment!

Really a fun thread with all the overwhelming, fact based and photo documented rebuttals.

[Truprogressive85]

108. I see

sad what HRC supporters have come to ; no facts just blanks and missing targets

[beam me up scottie]

110. In their rush to be outraged they also missed this:

Bernice King’s gay-inclusive speech at MLK rally surprises LGBT participants
By Dyana Bagby

Atlanta — Bernice King took the stage today at Atlanta’s annual Martin Luther King Jr. rally and included gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people among the various groups she said need to come together to fulfill her father’s legacy.

In a passionate, sermon-like speech about building unity, King said she didn’t care if people were Hindu, Buddhist, Islamist, were from the North side or the South side, were black or white, were “heterosexual or homosexual, or gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender” — that all people were needed to create unity.

LGBT people who attended the rally said they were shocked that King – who has a long anti-gay past — actually acknowledged the community in a public speech, but said they were also glad because it shows people can evolve.

Rev. Maressa Pendermon, a minister with LGBT-inclusive Unity Fellowship Church, said she at first intended to tune out King because of her anti-gay past, but decided to pay attention one more time.

For her father’s vision to be realized we’ve got to come together across boundaries and then she got in preacher mode. Then she said ‘heterosexual or homosexual,’ and then backed up and said ‘lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender.’ We need all of us,” Pendermon said.

...

Paulina Helm-Hernandez, the LGBT honorary grand marshal for today’s march and rally, said she also was surprised to hear King’s inclusive words.

“I thought it was great. First time I’ve ever heard her say lesbian, gay, bi and trans out loud,” she said. “She said homosexual at first and then corrected herself. It takes a lot of grace to do something like that when you’re on a roll.”

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2012/01/bernice-kings-gay-inclusive-speech-at-mlk-rally-surprises-lgbt-participants/

[Kentonio]

115. Nice

Just when it looked like this thread couldnt get more entertaining.

[beam me up scottie]

117. I thought that would add a little context to the daily rant about Bernie.

Like I said upthread, if Hillary can overcome her religious objections to same sex marriage so can Bernice King.

[peacebird]

155. Please start an OP with this?

[beam me up scottie]

156. I don't post ops in GDP anymore, I'm sorry.

I have been trying to stay away from this forum but got sucked back in last night.

The event wasn't about Bernie anyway.

[Divernan]

119. Heckuva job, dlwickham, LOL!!!!! Best thread ever! ! !

Keep up these great OPs. We Bernie supporters luv ya!

[TM99]

129. So a black religious woman is not allowed to evolve on LGBT rights,

but a white religious woman that wants to be our president is allowed to evolve?

Because that's kinda what you are saying here. So by trying to score a point with a homophobic by proxy slur you are bordering really close to making a racist one.

Oh, and concerning her anti-choice stance, are you therefore also against the new Democratic governor of Louisiana or were you one of the cheerleaders in those threads saying only a conservadem could have won in a red state?

In other words, this OP reeks of racism and hypocrisy.

[William769]

134. Yep, theres a stellar endorsement to be had.

[SidDithers]

148. DU rec...nt

Sid

[peacebird]

154. Why would he plead ignorance? He meets with people of all viewpoints, but he does not change HIS!

Bernie is strong in his support of LGBT causes, has been for decades, long before it was politically safe to do so.
He meets with people who have different viewpoints from his own, he even called out those differences when he spoke at Liberty University this year. He said there are some things we do not agree on, but there are other areas whee we can find common ground.

He is an adult. He can actually speak with people who hold different viewpoints. This particular attempt to smear him and gin up a controversy reeks of desperation.

[Bluenorthwest]

157. I've visited the Vatican, met a couple of Popes. The King Center, despite Bernice's position in that

family, speaks against homophobia on it's very own website. The King Center is about Martin Luther King Jr, it is not a creation of Bernice King. Here is a list from the King Center:
"Some contemporary examples of the Triple Evils are listed next to each item:

Poverty – unemployment, homelessness, hunger, malnutrition, illiteracy, infant mortality, slums…
Racism – prejudice, apartheid, ethnic conflict, anti-Semitism, sexism, colonialism, homophobia, ageism, discrimination against disabled groups, stereotypes
Militarism – war, imperialism, domestic violence, rape, terrorism, human trafficking, media violence, drugs, child abuse, violent crime…"
http://www.thekingcenter.org/king-philosophy

That material is in the first section of the first page of 'About the King Center: The King Philosophy' upfront, inclusive and conscious.

The Vatican, home of DU's Favorite bigot Pope Francis, has no such material equating bigotry toward LGBT with established evils. Yet Francis is a Superstar on DU....

It's almost like the Francis fans have a different set of rules for Bernie....

[treestar]

165. Can't believe you are making excuses

By your standard, Bernie should go right under the bus. As soon as I saw this, I expected to see you throwing Bernie aside. Bernie associated with a homophobe.

Earlier Monday, the 74-year-old met privately with Bernice King, one of the slain civil rights leader’s children, to talk about her father’s legacy.

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2015/11/23/bernie-sanders-trumpets-mlk-legacy-in-atlanta/

Privately! We don't even know what they talked about.

Earlier in the day Sanders met with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s youngest daughter Rev. Bernice King. The Senator said he was “honored and pleased” to spend time with her at the King Center in Atlanta.

http://radio.com/2015/11/23/killer-mike-bernie-sanders-soul-food/

Honored and pleased to talk to a homophobe!

You too have different rules for Bernie if you don't condemn him outright for this.

[Bluenorthwest]

169. There is no excuse to make. I talk to homophobes on DU daily, kid.

Bernice King was dispatched by the King Center to meet Bernie. That choice was theirs, not his. The Center is not in honor of Bernice King, but of Martin Luther King Jr, whom you may have heard of.

Did he pander to her bigotries? Of course not.

I have no idea what you, straight white person, think I should be objecting to here. I voted for Obama who expressed the same views and Bernice and who held rallies with clergy far more virulent than Bernice.

You once told me gay people have plenty of rights already, during a tirade you launched against disruptive LGBT activists, a tirade similar to those launched at BLM more recently. 'You have plenty of rights' you said.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022947372#post283

You have also defended the Pope endlessly here, he is even more anti choice and anti gay than Bernice, he just is. Both are clergy, he's the more venomous. And you love him.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026847011#post85
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4099974
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023710680

[treestar]

186. Well you had better criticize Bernie for this

as much as you did Obama for Rick and me for whatever (I still support marriage equality, though I'm a homophobe - looks pretty good when the homophobes support marriage equality but then most people don't judge as harshly as you do) - or you are just plain inconsistent.

What must suck is having to hate me (or any person) for 8 fucking years over one phrase in artfully done. I don't get you and your cohorts - to be that unforgiving over someone on the internet - how would you like to be judged that way? Maybe I could take time to twist some of your words to show you are anti-Catholic, but I'm not hateful that way. I could likely find something. And beat upon it for 8 years. I just don't know what it's like to be that upset over somebody disagreeing. And if I can cause you that much hatred, I can't imagine what people who actually oppose marriage equality must do.

After all you've said regarding anyone who refuses to throw the Pope totally under the bus, you practically have to throw Bernie under the bus for this. Just plain inconsistent and maybe you love Bernie just as unhealthfully much as you claim I do Obama and the pope.

[Bluenorthwest]

192. First, all I did was quote you. You do not quote me once, you characterize me instead. It's rude.

Second, Bernice King is the CEO of the King Center. The King Center is an important place and an inclusive organization that speaks against homophobia clearly while defining who and what the Center is. So Bernie met the woman.
Rick Warren, on the other hand was host to political events at his Church, at which Obama appeared and spoke against equal rights for LGBT. Obama then of course gave Warren the honor of officiating the Inaugural after Warren had spent the interval between the two events bashing away at LGBT people.

The two actions do not compare. I did not criticize Obama for meeting Rick Warren but for openly praising him and for agreeing with Warren about my rights. For rewarding him with excessive honors while disrespecting those he and Warren believed to be inferior due to God or whatever nonsense they were pushing.

Hillary also went to Warren's Church in 08. It was not attractive. Lots of lavish praise for Warren personally and a great deal of absolution offered to her entire faith community for their horrible behavior during the early days of the AIDS crisis. We could talk about that if you want to.

[Bluenorthwest]

173. Where is your response, treestar? Let's do this. I'm fully ready to quote you and your pals until

your alert fingers cramp up. You opened with lots of bluster and demands, but no actual response to what I said and how you have fallen silent in the face of the facts at hand.

Bluster is always vanquished by the truth.

[BootinUp]

163. K&R

[SidDithers]

168. Feels like pandering to me...nt

Sid

[Bluenorthwest]

172. Hillary at Rick Warren's home church, 2008. She went there to talk about AIDS, said 'gay' just 4

times in the whole evening, apologizing each time....

"You know, Rick has helped so many people with his lessons for a 40-day spiritual journey. But he knows those 40 days are just the beginning. My own faith journey is approaching a half a century, and I know how far I still have to go."

And this:
"Twenty-five years ago, when men - mostly young gay men - began dying from a disease that had no name, we could not have, and certainly did not, talk about it in church. It would not have been proper. It would not have been polite. It would have been discomforting for so many of us."
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=77080

I'd just like to say that 'twenty five years ago, when Rick and Hillary were too 'polite' to speak of AIDS in Church, other Churches and entire religious groups did speak and did take action and I will never forget them for it.

[Prism]

174. LOL, this thread is amazing

People who defended President Obama's homophobic associations to the hilt suddenly expressing concern that the King Center sent Bernice to meet with Bernie.

Delightful.

LGBTers - a community that matters sometimes, depending on whether or not it helps your favorite politician at that particular moment.

[azurnoir]

178. ^^^^^Thread winner^^^^^

[m-lekktor]

207. It's even MORE amazing to read the day after Hillary meets with Bernice!!nt

[Autumn]

195. McClurkin and Rick Warren are a couple of homophobic preachers so it's not just republicans

that meet with them. 2008 ring a bell? Obamas not ignorant is he?

[MisterP]

198. just because one candidate changes their positions to match those they're in physical proximity

to doesn't mean they all do

[ibegurpard]

199. Yeah so apparently Her Hillaryness met with her today...

[riderinthestorm]

200. HRC hosts Montgomery event with Bernice King

Ya know, that known "homophobic bigot" Bernice King that Bernie Sanders met with the other week? So "tone deaf" was he. There he was engaged in such pandering.

There's even pictures of HRC and Bernice King together (gasp!) At the link...

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/local/alabama/2015/12/01/clinton-marks-anniversary-historic-montgomery-bus-boycott/76620680/

Clinton spoke from the same pulpit at Dexter Avenue King Memorial Baptist Church where King preached his Sunday sermons as pastor from 1954 to 1960.

King's daughter, Bernice King, was scheduled to give the benediction. Fred Gray, the lawyer who represented the women who sued to overturn the segregated bus seating ordinance, will also speak.

Earlier, U.S. Rep. Terri Sewell, the lone Democrat and African American member of Alabama's congressional delegation, told the crowd "old battles have become new again."

[Trajan]

201. What an outrageous slander of a thread ...

I can hardly believe anybody would post this garbage ...

Gone in a NY second ...

[m-lekktor]

208. I love this thread! rofl! nt

[Armstead]

209. This represents total hypocritical double-standard catch 22 bullshit

Sanders gets criticized for being "out of touch" with AAs and other minorities. People express "concern" because they claim he is not "reaching out" to AAs. His supporters are branded as self involved racists.

But then, when he does make connections, the outrage patrol goes into overdrive. "Ohhhhhh. He's accepting the support of Cornell West who hates Obama."......Now "ohhhhhh he met with a homophobic black bigot whio is a member of teh King family."

Screw that shit. The AA community (nor any demographic) is not monolithic. It includes people of many ideologies, value systems and lifestyles. Many AAs are very conservative on social issues.

How many socially conservative conservative AAs would Hillary refuse to met with or accept their support? Do you suppose she would refuses the support of AA congregation that might have very socially conservative views on abortion or homosexuality?

A Big Tent means you work on issues you agree on with people you don't agree with on everything.

[ecstatic]

218. This is silly. I don't see a problem with talking to people we're not in 100% agreement with

as long as the expectations are realistic. It's true that some people/groups are a lost cause (i.e., Liberty University) and possibly a waste of time.