Overheard at the bar

[MaggieD]

(Aka as a "pub", but for folks that can't afford 10 bucks for a beer)

"I ain't voting for no socialist"

Rest of bar patrons: "Me neither"

[Cleita]

1. Good dialogue. What work of fiction are you

referring to?

[MaggieD]

7. The bar in my town....

Where "the people" go to drink normal priced beer and hang out. True story, and I wouldn't have mentioned it except I saw the cute anecdote about the "pub" conversation.

Heartwarming, don't you think?

[Fawke Em]

13. Funny... I hear, "I ain't votin' for that lying (female dog)" far more

than I hear anything bad about Bernie.

And, I inserted the meaning. They say the word.

[MaggieD]

15. You must be hanging out in pubs

LOL!

[Fawke Em]

18. Actually, no.

I hear that everywhere.



But, you see, I'm not especially bothered by that word. I happen to think female dogs are cool. Comparing me to one is not sweat off my brow.

[TheFarseer]

51. yeah

someone who would say that I'm sure absolutely loves Hillary. Guys in pubs drinking a Budweiser - oh yeah, they love Hillary almost as much as they love the NFL.

[JTFrog]

94. Doesn't surprise me one bit that misogynistic pigs would say something like that.

Is that the vote we are supposed to be courting?

Just curious.

[Cleita]

21. So you are paying $10 a beer for product that costs at the most

$1 a pull hanging out at the public house doing nothing? The socialists are out canvassing and attending city council meetings, going to meet ups with like minded socialists to get our country to again be a place for the middle class to prosper, including you and the guy who is making a lot of money off of you with his cheap beer.



Have fun.

[MaggieD]

23. Never seen a Bernie supporter at a bar

Bernie supporters apparently hang out in "pubs". Now here's a pro tip - the beer in pubs tastes the same as beer in bars. They just charge twice as much for it.

[Cleita]

28. My point, and you said you were paying $10 a beer with your friends

who hate socialists. I don't know any Bernie supporters that hang out in either bars or "pubs". I don't think you know any either. The Bernie supporters in my area are organizing and working for him. The strongest drink imbibed is coffee and most don't even drink that.

[840high]

40. So you are an expert on drinking. Good to know.

[MaggieD]

43. I think you're prejudiced about bars

Just because your friends hang out at fancy pubs.

[840high]

47. We had a pub in my town - that pub was a meeting

place for democrats. I don't drink - but loved going there for the discussions.

[MaggieD]

50. Ah, "drinking liberally"

Yes, they like to have their salons in pubs. Bars aren't hip enough.

[Scootaloo]

60. Really? You're down to sneering at dialectal differences?

"Hurr hurr, your candidate is dumb 'cause you say pop instead of soda!"

[MaggieD]

62. What? You don't find an anecdote about a bar convo amusing?

[Scootaloo]

71. I think that sneering at someone for using "pub" rather than "bar" is ridiculous

[Warren DeMontague]

67. it's on par with the high-brow discourse I've come to expect from "The old Deee-Yeewww", dear chap

why just last week I was speaking with some rough and tumble reg'lar workin' folks at a Hillary Clinton $60,000 a plate fundraiser, and indeed they all agreed that the effete snobs supporting the Sanders campaign were much too elitist for their rough-hewn and workaday sensibilities.

[840high]

39. If I paid $10 or a beer - I would be stupid.

[darkangel218]

34. Bwahahahahahahahhaha!!

[ismnotwasm]

2. I've even heard the dreaded "C" word

Communist--given the many, many good folks who object to socialism often confuse it with communism. A tangle indeed, I have heard it put that very way.. The rest of the bar "Oh HELL no"

I suppose a big speech explaining the differences might help...

[MaggieD]

3. Yeah, a big speech

Why didn't Bernie think of that. LOL!

[ismnotwasm]

8. He really should

It actually *is* a problem. I found, to my dismay, explaining the difference on more than occasion when Senator Sanders was mentioned. Not that I made any difference to those types of thinkers.

[MaggieD]

10. Shoot - I thought he DID

If you make a big speech and nobody really noticed did it really happen?

[ismnotwasm]

17. Hmm

One could make a koan out of that statement

[MaggieD]

19. Indeed

I'm zen like that. Interesting to ponder.

[Fawke Em]

14. Media didn't cover it.

But, it's still breaking through.

[SunSeeker]

57. There was nothing to cover. He just repeated his old stump speech talking points.

The same old stuff about how he just wants to be like Denmark. Except of course Denmark is not a democratic socialist country, as its leader recently said, correcting Bernie.

If Bernie was going to do that, it is hard to understand why he waited so long--even putting off the speech. Odd.

[Matariki]

80. Media covered it. Unless you mean television

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&authuser=0&q=sanders+socialist+speech&oq=sanders+so&gs_l=news-cc.1.3.43j0l4j43i53.884.7928.0.11640.10.8.0.2.2.0.53.376.8.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.iGugxAu_wk4

Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/bernie-sanderss-socialism-speech-in-less-than-3-minutes/2015/11/19/1b8e4620-8efc-11e5-934c-a369c80822c2_video.html

CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/19/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialist-speech/

USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/11/18/sen-bernie-sanders-explain-his-embrace-democratic-socialism/75987572/

many many more

[freshwest]

22. I heard the sound of guns being cocked. n/t

[Scootaloo]

61. With your crowd, I imagine you hear the K-word vastly more often...

[onehandle]

4. Can you imagine if Senator Sanders actually got nominated?

Not only would we lose the White House, but most every state would go solid red downticket, and the Nader SCOTUS would be extended an extra thirty years, minimum.

[MaggieD]

5. Yep

I think you're exactly right.

[Fawke Em]

16. Nope. I CAN, however, imagine losing Ohio, NC, Colorado and Florida

by nominating someone who has no cross-over appeal and is considered a liar by more than half the population.

[MaggieD]

20. Or 49 states

I have to concede that Bernie might take VT.

[Thinkingabout]

29. From some of the post some thinks Hillary is a republican and migh fit the cross over candidate.

But then Sanders votes with the Republicans on gun issues so maybe they will consider him a Republican.

[redstateblues]

35. All those down ballot socialists

Would be swept into office on Bernie's coat tails

[MaggieD]

45. LOL!

Ok, that was funny!

[MFrohike]

64. How would that be different from now?

Last I checked, 2/3 of the elected seats in the country have gone red since 2010. 30 some odd governors and legislatures, both chambers on the federal level, and tons of judicial seats have gone to the right.

[stevenleser]

79. And of course you interpret that in such a way as to support the conclusion you want.

Rather than try to understand a pretty wide array of causation.

[MFrohike]

84. Cool story, bro

Last I checked, I undermined a stupid argument and did nothing else. There's plenty of reasons to support or dislike any of the Democratic candidates, but bullshit arguments easily disproven by reality aren't among those reasons. You may not like the reality, but that's ok. After all, reality doesn't care if you believe it.

As for causation, I didn't speak to it. The only thing I will note is that the supposed realignment that was celebrated in 2006 and 2008 is toast. Rather than trade ideological talking points that simply display a lack of thought, it'd be wiser to examine what actually happened and why it happened. I have no illusions that it will happen, but I can hope.

[SwampG8r]

96. You forgot the mike drop

Thank you that was a thing of beauty

[Betty Karlson]

95. I think he could actually flip a few red states:

His cross-over appeal is way larger than Clinton's, you see? It's the youth vote.

[OilemFirchen]

6. So this topknot walks into a bar...

[MaggieD]

9. I think manbuns and topknots hang out in "pubs"

Haven't seen that type in our local bar.

[OilemFirchen]

11. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251842971#post18

[MaggieD]

12. Heh heh heh!

True that.

[zappaman]

24. This sounds better than that other pub I heard about.

It seems to be full of racist, homophobic, misogynists.
This one sounds much nicer.

[MaggieD]

25. I hate pubs

Real Dems hang out at bars. Just ask your Union friends.

[cantbeserious]

26. Wishful Thinking - Keep Dreaming - That Dream

eom

[MaggieD]

27. Nope - true story

[cantbeserious]

30. This Citizen Does Not Find One A Credible Source - Slightly Biased

eom

[MaggieD]

41. Your opinion isn't important to me

I thought that would be understood, but apparently not.

[PowerToThePeople]

31. Overheard in this OP

a bunch of bullshit.

[tech3149]

32. OK Maggie since you started this, answer me this

What did you do to open the discussion and broaden their understanding of what any form of socialism is? What we do in this next election cycle really does matter so you are either working for positive change or more of the same.
It's a question that has been asked before and drawn blood too many times.
Which side are you on?

[MaggieD]

46. Nah, I agree with them

I don't want Bernie as president either.

[tech3149]

74. So you're just fine with more of the same?

Must be working well for you.

[MaggieD]

75. I think Obama has done an excellent job

Yes.

[tech3149]

77. Sorry, can't agree. Better than the alternative? Yes

Back when Obama was the hot new thing there were indications that he was a true believer in the free market capitalist fantasy. Most people didn't see it for the fine rhetoric masking the meat in the sandwich. That was proven by his appointments after his election. I don't expect anything less or more from Ms Clinton.
More of the same is not enough for this old man.
Sanders is the best alternative to really change the system to work for all of us from my perspective.
He may not win the nomination but whatever the outcome he is the tip of the spear of political change that might lead to truly representative government.

[MaggieD]

78. More of the same is fine with me

We need a progressive realist in the presidency. Not a pie in the sky fabulist like Sanders. Dude has accomplished nothing in 25 years except yelling at people. He has zero ability to create change, as he has amply demonstrated over and over again.

He lost me years ago when he dissed Obama and called for a primary of him. He is the epitome of the circular firing squad that prevents the Dems from advancing our agenda.

[Matariki]

81. His political record of getting things done has been explained to you over and over

at this point what you're saying is either willful ignorance or political hackery.

[SwampG8r]

97. Its both

[gwheezie]

33. True story

I spent a week with a variety of ages and political viewpoints and all of them said Hillary would be the best choice against the GOP in the GE.

[darkangel218]

36. "I spent a week with a variety of ages and political viewpoints"

I don't know about the Dems, but the Repubs would LOVE Hillary to win, because she would be so easily beat.

[redstateblues]

37. Obviously not many DUers

In your real world. Here in the bubble HRC is the essence of evil. In my state I'm afraid Bernie will not fare well.

[MaggieD]

48. No, tons of real Dems in my world

I was born and raised in a union town, by union patents. Steeped in politics since I was a little kid. I know "real" Dems when I see them. I only know one socialist though. Unfortunately she can't vote because she's not a citizen.

[840high]

38. You are pitiful.

[MaggieD]

42. Just because I like cheap beer

Instead of that fancy "pub" beer your friends drink? LOL!

[ismnotwasm]

52. There used to be this awesome Biker bat

In a Seattle district called Fremont. It was the real deal, bullets holes, fights, drug dealing, loud music--about a hundred Harley's out front on a good night. Lots of good times. When the area was gentrified, and I kid you not--they turned it into an "Ale House" Ugh.

The rest of the story is the building got historic landmark status and was moved elsewhere-- but what a way to ruin a great bar.

[MaggieD]

53. Oh I've seen that

My neighborhood has one working class bar left. The rest are the pubs filled with hipsters. On the other hand, Fremont has the statue of Lenin. Or did the move that?

[ismnotwasm]

59. Nope --still there

Someone painted his hand red last I saw it

[oasis]

44. I'm not one to speak ill of Bernie but

I was in Vegas this weekend and mentioned the name "Bernie Sanders" on three separate occasions; one to a cabbie; one to a hotel desk clerk and one more to a cafe waitress. Each reacted with a blank look as if to say "Who the hell is that?". I had to explain to these folks that he was a candidate for president.

I never brought up the subject of him being a "socialist" since they didn't have a clue he even existed.

Bernie supporters have a really tough sales job ahead of them. "Double" tough.

[MaggieD]

49. He's pure, so he has no money to campaign in Nevada

[oasis]

54. It's an early caucus state. He'd better kick it in gear if he's serious. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

76. Much the same experience here

The conversations go something like this...

What do you think of Bernie Sanders?

Who? Oh you mean the socialist?

Yeah, they have work to do...

[TSIAS]

55. I'll make a prediction

In that very same "bar", six months from now if HRC is the nominee, all your friends who won't vote for socialist Sanders will be ranting and ravings about Clinton being a Marxist, Commie, Socialist, or the like.

They might be your allies now that they are against Sanders, but I sincerely doubt many of them will be voting for Clinton.

[MaggieD]

56. No they are actual Dems

They don't actually sit around smearing Dems all day.

[TSIAS]

58. Right

They only sit around using socialist as an invective. Hardly consistent with what I find from most Democrats.

[MaggieD]

63. Have you spoken with "most" Democrats?

That's quite an accomplishment! Congrats!

[Warren DeMontague]

65. so the guy says to the hard of hearing genie, "what the hell am I s'posed to do with a 12" PIANIST?"

Oh, sorry, wrong bar.

[Vattel]

92. I bet that's a true story.

[Warren DeMontague]

66. ARUGULA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry, just thinking that was what this thread was missing.

[silenttigersong]

68. Lol

Did you do a poll?

[silenttigersong]

69. Must have been

Bill and Val

[MFrohike]

70. Yeesh

You can always tell the primary populists; they don't know the price of beer.

The act would be more convincing without the discussion of zen koans upthread. In the future, if you really want to play anti-intellectual, commit to it. It's a rookie mistake.

[MaggieD]

73. Beer will be free dammit!

[MFrohike]

85. Amateur hour

This whole thread reads like a lazy hipster's ode to pointlessness.

[MaggieD]

86. I think you're looking for the....

"Overheard in the PUB" thread. LOL!

[ismnotwasm]

89. Are you seriously trying to analyize here?

I'll just sit back with my 40 and watch.

[NurseJackie]

72. And there you have it!!

Rightly or wrongly, the word and label "socialist" will be the Achilles' Heel of Bernie's campaign. The GOP money machine would exploit it with great success. (This will be compounded by the fact that Bernie insists on running a campaign financed only by "small donors", knowing that the GOP will not do the same ... a foolish mistake, and another sign of a weak campaign.)

In the minds of many ill-informed voters, the word "socialist" is equivalent to "communist". (But, out in the real world, you can count on me to not dissuade others of that notion. I'll just smile in agreement.)

[Cleita]

82. Nope. You are wrong. The millennials who will be voting for the

first time for a President don't see socialism and communism as the evil system that we who were raised during the Cold War do. Those who equate socialism as the same thing as Soviet Russia are dinosaurs politically and are becoming fewer and fewer in number.

[NurseJackie]

83. Hang on to that.

It's a comforting thought and I'm sure that will help when Bernie runs again for the 2020 nomination.

[Motown_Johnny]

88. When was the last time any of them voted at all?

I am betting decades.

[marlakay]

91. I guess we go to different bars

I went to one on Monday and when I mentioned I was for Bernie bartender fist bumped me, I get a lot of that when I mention his name and all the people working there smiled.

Everyone else at bar heard me talking and not a single person felt the need to pipe in anything negative.

[Hiraeth]

93. The most boring bar conversation EVER.

[riversedge]

98. I raise a glass to you.