Sanders: Single Payer Never Had A Chance

[sheshe2]

ByEvan McMorris-SantoroPublishedMarch 10, 2010, 7:26 PM EST

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) reminded the progressive media gathered on Capitol Hill today that single-payer health care reform was dead before it started in the Senate.

"It would have had 8 or 10 votes and that's it," he said, addressing a topic central in the minds of many who the bloggers and left wing talk show hosts gathered for the 4th annual Senate Democratic Progressive Media Summit in Washington reach everyday.

snip

"The major error Democrats undertook was to assume we had 60 votes or even 59," he said. "We never had that."

Sanders said he thinks Democrats have 50 votes in the Senate to pass a bill "certainly to include a public option." It was a bit of good news for progressives, who have turned their attention to using reconciliation in the Senate to bolster a reform bill with the addition of a public option.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance

It did not work in VT either. Sad, yet it is a fact.

[randys1]

1. Americans need to do a general strike, DEMAND medicare for all, period.

[Hoyt]

2. That ought to put that crud to rest, but it won't.

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. No ... It won't. n/t

[sheshe2]

9. Ya, Hoyt. I know.

[Hoyt]

17. Hey back!

[MaggieD]

59. Nope

Sadly.

[Number23]

86. The handful of remaining smart DUers have been saying this exact same thing for LITERALLY years

And it still gets thrown up by the riff raff every 3 months or so. So I put no money that Sanders saying this will put anything to rest.

[sheshe2]

88. Yup

Clueless ad infinityl

[Autumn]

3. What's Hillary been up to lately? nt

[sheshe2]

22. Lol~

You got nothing.

[Autumn]

44. So she's not up to nothing? nt

[sheshe2]

62. Autumn

You are being silly here.

Read the article. The votes WERE NOT THERE!!! His words.

Plus. VT fail. No money.

[Autumn]

68. Well of course I know that, I'm a Sanders supporter.

[sheshe2]

94. So why were you asking,,,

sup~ Hillary?

Lol!

[Autumn]

112. Cause I wanted to know sup~ Hillary?

But I see there's no point in asking.

[sheshe2]

97. ...

[Cali_Democrat]

4. Even more revealing is when he said single-payer won't come from Washington DC

In the article, he admits the President would have pretty much no power to implement single-payer anyways.

[sheshe2]

8. Exactly Cali!!!

Exactly.

[BlueCaliDem]

29. Yet now he says it can happen if HE'S president. Or, at least, that's

what he's telling his supporters. That's disingenuous of him, and he needs to stop it.

[sheshe2]

47. Hook Line Sinker

[BlueCaliDem]

56. Yep. Hook, line, and sinker.

It's amazing how some people can see the tiniest splinter in someone's eye - and go off on a rant about it - while they completely overlook the 2 by 4 sticking out of their favorite person's eye. Amazing.

[George II]

48. They couldn't even figure out a way to pay for it in teeny Vermont.

[BlueCaliDem]

60. Even with ObamaCare helping to pay for implementation, too!

[sheshe2]

95. It is called ~

Bankruptcy.

[BainsBane]

72. My, that's quite an "evolution." nt

[mcar]

5. Straight from the candidate's mouth

He spoke sense. The political climate is even worse now.

[sheshe2]

24. Word!

[MaggieD]

6. Yes, he's not being honest on this

He's attacking Hillary on something he knows damn well can't be passed. His current bill has been sitting there for years and doesn't have a single co sponsor.

That is one of the most dishonest moves I've ever seen a presidential candidate make. Disgusting, IMO.

[Sheepshank]

10. This reality doesn't play well with the current talking points

I don't really expect any acceptance of your post or the OP from any Sanders supporter.

What I do expect are diversions and non related issues to be thrown onto this thread......oh lookee up thread.

[BootinUp]

11. So why is he attacking Hillary when its a hopeless idea?

[Sheepshank]

12. An attempt to score cheap political points

Feels dishonest, doesn't it?

[BootinUp]

16. Yes - misleading people just to get their vote.

[sheshe2]

49. Ya think?

[sheshe2]

93. Yup.

[sheshe2]

96. ;)

[sheshe2]

98. fibs because that is all he has

[BainsBane]

13. Yet now all we need to do to get it is election him

when it didn't stand a chance with a Democratic majority in both houses. It's so transparent, I can't believe people fall for it.

[sheshe2]

20. Six Reasons Why Vermont's Single-Payer Health Plan Was Doomed From The Start

Hsiao and Gruber promised that single-payer health care in Vermont could save $1.6 billion over ten years. With that endorsement in hand, Shumlin and the legislature passed Act 48, a law instructing the state to figure out how to finance a single-payer system. They dubbed it Green Mountain Care. “If Vermont gets single-payer health care right, which I believe we will, other states will follow,” pronounced Shumlin. “If we screw it up, it will set back this effort for a long time. So I know we have a tremendous amount of responsibility, not only to Vermonters.”

Spoiler alert: they screwed it up. But think of it like one of those murder mysteries where the victim gets shot in the first scene; the real story lies in what led to the poor slob’s demise.

1. Vermont insisted on platinum-plated insurance coverage

The market-oriented way to bring prices down is to give consumers more control of their own health care dollars, like they have in every other aspect of the economy. If you as an individual control the money, you’re going to shop around for the best combination of quality and price. If somebody else is paying for the care, you’re less likely to care about how much anything costs.

Unfortunately, that basic insight is anathema to the progressive left. Single-payer advocates believe, on principle, that health care is best when it is “free to the patient at the point of care.” On the back end, of course, you pay for it in taxes, and in between the government decides whether or not you should be allowed to have that knee replacement or that mammogram. This is what we call rationing.

Read More http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/12/21/6-reasons-why-vermonts-single-payer-health-plan-was-doomed-from-the-start/

[BainsBane]

50. I disagree strongly with that market oriented approach

Firstly, medical services aren't billed according to what they cost providers. In fact, providers don't even have that information, so how can they provide it to consumers?

I would love to see single payer. That isn't my complaint about Sanders' position. It's that single payer isn't currently feasible, and he knows it. His 2010 comments demonstrate that. So why isn't he being straight with voters now?

[Jim Lane]

100. Sanders IS being straight with the voters.

He's stating his position and presenting his arguments for it.

It isn't currently feasible? Well, it will never GET feasible unless people push for it.

Harry Truman tried to get a federal health care program. As a result, he was sitting next to LBJ when Medicare was signed into law.

If the Clintoncare proposal of the 1990s had instead been a proposal for single-payer, to get the momentum going, maybe it would have been feasible by 2010. That's admittedly speculation. What's not speculation is this: If no one ever advocates for single payer as long as it's not feasible, then it will never become feasible.

[BainsBane]

102. How do you explain Sanders declaring it a non-starter in 2010

when there was a Democratic majority, and now under a GOP majority giving a completely opposite point of view? How on earth is that being straight?

[Jim Lane]

105. The most important thing is to advocate for it.

We need people to push for what's right.

As for the feasibility, I don't know how long it would take. If more and more people hear Sanders advocate it and find that they agree with him, and he's elected and can use the bully pulpit, and if there's enough growing public sentiment to oust some Republican legislators and persuade some finger-in-the-wind Democrats... it's a longshot to think President Sanders could sign the bill into law but not completely impossible.

There's also the complicated question of how the ACA has affected the equation. I'm inclined to think that it's made single-payer harder to get to in the short term, because many people will say "Let's get a few more years' of experience under the ACA first." As against that, many people may be realizing that the Republican fear-mongering about a "government takeover of health care" was bogus, and that a somewhat greater governmental role has improved the system.

The bottom line is that we have to get out of the vicious circle -- it's deemed unfeasible so no major politician advocates for it so it's deemed unfeasible. If 60 million or so people sign up for DU and read here about how great single-payer would be, then we won't need any politicians, but I'm calling that an even bigger longshot than President Sanders signing the bill. Our only realistic path is if we have leaders who are willing to lead.

[Jim Lane]

106. You should be careful about your citations.

Some people here will jump all over you for citing a right-wing source. There are those who are quick to dismiss any criticism of Hillary Clinton that comes if they think attacking the source will be easier than answering the substance.

Of course, there's always the chance that citing a right-wing source to attack Sanders will be just peachy with that crowd.

[Persondem]

14. As odd as it may sound, the path to SP, if there is one, ...

runs through a Clinton White House.

HRC elected 2016.
2017-2019 she appoints 2 SCOTUS judges.
Said judges overturn CU and reverse gerrymandering (1 person, 1 vote)
2020 redistricting begins, Clinton re-elected, Texas goes Blue
2022 new House districts give Dems a majority, HRC appoints another SCOTUS judge
2023 SP has a chance.
2024 President Castro elected ...
Let the good times roll ...

[Sheepshank]

18. Well, this just made me smile. nt

[Thinkingabout]

30. I like it, this would be a dream come true.

[BlueCaliDem]

32. This is a wonderful scenario, Persondem!

And a plausible one.

[freshwest]

65. Only if the voters keep on voting, but yeah, I love the plan. n/t

[sheshe2]

43. This

2024 President Castro elected ...
Let the good times roll ...

Boom. Heads will explode! 2024 President Castro elected ...
Let the good times roll~

[George II]

52. Damn, first black President followed by the first woman President followed by....

....the first Hispanic President.

Let the good times roll indeed!

[sheshe2]

78. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ismnotwasm]

15. That's exactly right

I never got how people didn't understand this...

[sheshe2]

80. Luvs ism.

[TheProgressive]

19. That's because many Dem Senators are just like Hillary Clinton...

They are corporate democrats/third way democrats...

They are not Progressive liberal *real* democrats despite saying they are...

[sheshe2]

21. Is this hate on Dems week?

VT could not get it passed either. See my post above.

[sleepyvoter]

23. No, it's not how it went.

Shumlin, Clinton Supporter, didn't even go through with the bill.

[sheshe2]

26. Yes because it was not affordable!!!

They could not afford it! It would have buried tax payers.

Sad, yet a fact.

[Agnosticsherbet]

33. Shumlin "concluded the 11.5 percent payroll assessments on businesses and sliding

up to 9.5 percent of individuals’ income “might hurt our economy.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711#ixzz3sMumuakn

[sleepyvoter]

39. Spoken like a Third Wayer n/t

[Agnosticsherbet]

46. So you think the people of Vermont would be happy to pay a massive increase in taxes? nt

[sleepyvoter]

53. Yes. If it means not having to pay high premiums, deductibles, co-pays and prescriptions

and it's rolled into one tax, it makes hell of a sense.

[Agnosticsherbet]

54. Perhaps, but history doesn't appear to show Americans loving a tax. But you may be right.

But things that make sense do not look sensible when the price tag is shown.

[sheshe2]

99. I am assuming you have links to back all that up correct?

We like facts here.

Link.

[sheshe2]

104. Show me the links how this plays out,

links.

TIA

[mcar]

111. ...

[TheProgressive]

25. The 2014 Princeton report says it all...

The people's voice in directing policy is nonexistent...

Dems fall into that as well. It is the truth. It is factual.

That's why there are real Democrats and then there are Third Way/Corporate Democrats.

And I am a FDR/JFK/Sanders *real* Democrat.

Understand?

[sheshe2]

27. Understand?

And I am a FDR/JFK/Sanders *real* Democrat.

Understand?

Wow, you are a real Democrat. Lol~ you are a real Democrat and the rest of us are what?

[TheProgressive]

28. I don't know...

What are the rest?

[Politicalboi]

34. Good question

At least Bernie has been behind single payer and will push harder for us than Hillary ever would. I trust Bernie over health care rather than Hillary.

[sheshe2]

90. It failed in VT

To costly!

[BootinUp]

31. Might be a good idea for a blog or forum name: *Real* Democrat

not saying it would be a popular site though.

[sheshe2]

101. Lol~

I have always wondered what a real Democrat was.

Are there fake Democrats out there? Are there female Democrats out there? No way, women are not even allowed to vote...oh wait...! Yikes we have LGBT Dems out there as well. They are not real Democrats because....sssssh ssssh . they are gay.................sssssh~

[Thinkingabout]

37. I have been a Democrat all of my life and I will continue to be a Democrat. I also do not need to

Redefined by others. Just because there is a difference of opinions of how far right or left one may be, it does not make others not a Democrat. Why would there even be a desire to even push on this issue. We are trying to elect Democrats. This is a mission of DU, not to redefine democrats but elect Democrats.

[TheProgressive]

42. True...

Just that we Democrats have not made much progress in the last 17 years...

We seem to be always being told to 'keep our powder dry'...

[Thinkingabout]

51. It is by voting we can change from Republican to Democratic, simply as that.

If we want change it will be by working hard, electing a Democratic Congress will go a long way, and it will take a larger voter turnout than we had in 2014.

[TheProgressive]

57. Yes, we do need to elect Democrats...

However, they actually have to be Democrats in the first place...

[sheshe2]

55. Are you serious???????????????????????????

Just that we Democrats have not made much progress in the last 17 years...

WE ELECTED OUR FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN PRESIDENT TWICE BY AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY!!!!!!!

That means nothing to you. I would like to say I am appalled by your response. I am not.

Yikes, OMG, we have done nothing according to you, how sad is that.

[TheProgressive]

61. Yes, electing Obama was awesome...

And, Democrats do push social issues which are extremely important.

However... We are still at perpetual war. Democrat Bill Clinton got NAFTA, etc passed
which harms Americans because of lack of jobs. Add the TeleCommunications Act and
repealing Glass-Steagal... Democrat Obama put Social Security 'on the table', and drone killings
which to me is a War Crime.

So, yes, great on Social Issues that 'do not cost the corporations any money', but still not
doing the other things like Single Payer and Jobs...

On edit: forgot to add Obama's support from the TPP... Hmmm....

[BlueCaliDem]

75. Based on his work, President Obama is the best president of my lifetime. Bar none.

Democrat Obama put Social Security 'on the table',

And darn well knew Republicans in the House wouldn't go for it because in that so-called "grand bargain", it would entail raising taxes on their money-masters and closing corporate loopholes. But the events of that time was Republicans successfully wailing on every single channel that the "president hasn't presented a budget!!11" and corporate media propagating that misinformation when both the U.S. mass media and Republicans knew that presenting a budget is their job, not the president's. But that was running meme.

Republicans balked and the 'grand bargain' went the way of the Dodo. No harm. No foul...except maybe for Bernie Sanders saying, on multiple political shows, that it "would be a good idea to primary Obama".

and drone killings which to me is a War Crime.

Senator Bernie Sanders has voted for, supports, and will not end the drone program.

The TPP is the fulfillment of a campaign promise by then Senator Obama; to improve trade deals and to give countries teeth in order to prosecute those who violate the regulations - which is currently not the case.

The TPP has been demonized to the nth degree, even before anything solid had been written.

As Liberals and Progressives, we're not supposed to prejudge. We're supposed to look at the facts. The TPP, although not perfect, is pretty darn good; better than previous trade deals that continue to actually harm workers and even murder laborers who want to form a union.

Article 9.3 states, protections for the environment, labor and everything else take precedence over corporate rights. That alone is a HUGE improvement.

[mythology]

79. Really?

I consider the ACA, marriage equality, cutting the deficit, pulling out of the Bush recessions (both Bill Clinton and Obama), saving the U.S. auto industry, created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, added sexual orientation and gender identity to the list of hate crimes, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay act, cut sentencing requirements for drug offenses, killed bin Laden, reopened an embassy in Cuba, authorized Medicare to negotiate drug prices, greatly increased our renewable energy production, signed a deal with China to reduce emissions, got rid of the incompetent Bush policy of abstinence only sex ed, and signed a deal that prevents Iran from getting a nuclear bomb, progress.

Your mileage may vary.

[Skidmore]

38. You don't get to decide this.

And I am a FDR/JFK/Sanders *real* Democrat.

We are all Democrats, even when we disagree.

[yardwork]

109. And many members of Congress are Republicans.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. No shit, Bernie! That's what President Obama tried to tell you, but you insisted on blaming HIM!

[Cha]

64. Yes, bernie is always blaming President Obama for something and then denying he ever worked

against him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=26215

[freshwest]

67. Obama was/is cognizant of the political realities. No one can replace him, missing him already. n/t

[JoePhilly]

36. I've been explaining this for about 6 years now.

Maybe now that Bernie has said it, DU's Combustible Hair Club will finally figure it out.

[firebrand80]

40. We just need to fight harder

political revolution and whatnot

[JoePhilly]

45. Actually ...

... fighting smarter would make better sense.

But hey, the folks who thought a primary of Obama in 2012 would be a great idea ... simply don't work that way.

[MaggieD]

74. +1

[BlueCaliDem]

41. And he knows it has zero chance of passing in this political climate.

Yet he continues to use single-payer in his stump-speech. What he should tell his supporters is, it's not enough to vote for him but they have to find progressive candidates to run for the House and Senate and at least get them both majorities that will work with him. He's not doing that, and that makes what he's peddling at his campaign stops, disingenuous at the very least.

[Major Hogwash]

58. Bart Stupac held up single payer in the House of Representatives for 6 months.

Claiming he had a list of 59 Democrats who agreed with him.
Pelosi demanded to see the list of those Democrats who agreed with him.
Stupac never showed her the list . . . because it didn't exist!!!

Stupac was a Democrat from Michigan.
Stupac is no longer a member of Congress.

Now it is 2015.
Most of the Senators that held up single payer in the Senate are no longer members of the Senate.
Bernie will have a much different Congress to deal with.
Funny, that just 6 short years can cause so many "Democrats" to get thrown out of office.
Like Stupac.
Or Landrieu.

It wasn't Bernie Sanders that held up single payer, it was the establishment Democrats in Congress at the time.

That is the inconvenient truth, sheshe.

[Thinkingabout]

66. Labdrieu was beat because she was a Louisiana Senator who voted with the oil industry of which many

Citizens of Louisiana are employed and the greens ran a campaign to defeat her. What did they get as a reward, a Tea Party Republican. In fact there was a lot of chatter right here on DU, we need to elect Democrats, not defeat them.

[Major Hogwash]

69. She was a Democrat . . who was against single payer.

She was an established member of Congress.

[Thinkingabout]

70. Keep on believing that, Sanders did not get single payer through, why did he fail?

Like I say, those who fought Landrieu got a present of TP Republican in the place of Landrieu, do you think he will be for progressive ideas, sleep on it, he will not.

[MaggieD]

71. No Dem senator is a liberal?

His bill has zero cosponsors and he does not appear to be trying to get any. Why is that?

[sheshe2]

76. Yes

Now it is 2015.
Most of the Senators that held up single payer in the Senate are no longer members of the Senate.
Bernie will have a much different Congress to deal with.
Funny, that just 6 short years can cause so many "Democrats" to get thrown out of office.
Like Stupac.
Or Landrieu.

The repukes are still there. THEY are the majority, not us. I am so sorry it pains me, no Dem will face a new congress until possibly 2024. Not happening however much we wish it. We get the same shit. If and when we get a Dem in, we face a stone wall over and over. There are those that want to take us back.

They want women subservient. They want to enslave AA. They want LGBT in the closet sans privileges to love who they wish. They don't like us.

Me, for the time I have left I will fight for us all, I have wee ones I love and I sure as hell want a future for them. New one coming soon for the one we lost. A boy. My thought is he will be named after his grandfather we so recently lost.

[Major Hogwash]

77. Wow, that's a cheery thought.

" . . . no Dem will face a new congress until possibly 2024."

Nice bright future you've imagined there all by yourself, eh?

And you said I never talk to you on the forum anymore!!!

[sheshe2]

82. Major.

It is a fact, we cannot change congress any time soon. I want to, I really do.

My vote is for my wee ones that I love more than life. No he is not mine, yet he is mine, they all are.

Sadly nothing I say to you is right.

[Major Hogwash]

84. Did you ever figure out why?

Why I don't talk to you on the forum anymore?

It just might have something to do with your bright outlook on life.

[sheshe2]

87. That is a bad thing?

I tried the other night to talk to you.

Your response hurt. Oh yes it did.

[Major Hogwash]

108. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

I simply disagreed with what you said in your unsolicited PM . . so, now you claim that my response hurt.

Okay, I'll stop responding to you.
That's easy enough to do.

[sheshe2]

113. Okay, Major.

Next time I will try and find you on the board and ask permission to send you a PM.

[freshwest]

63. Country has had over 30 years of going to the right. This was the result. Bummer. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

85. 35, but who's counting?

Things have been cheery here in Idaho for longer than that.

[Cha]

73. Yeah, it's too bad it didn't have a chance in the Senate in 2010 and there are those who are still

blaming it on President Obama because they have nothing better to do.

Costs derail Vermont’s dream of a single-payer health plan

snip//

For decades, liberal activists yearned for a European-style, single-payer health system that they argued would lead to more affordable, efficient, and comprehensive medical coverage for all citizens. When Vermont four years ago enacted a landmark bill to establish the nation’s first single-payer health care system, they saw their long-sought dream about to be fulfilled.

But reality hit last month. Governor Peter Shumlin released a financial report that showed the cost of the program would nearly double the size of the state’s budget in the first year alone and require large tax increases for residents and businesses. Shumlin, a Democrat and long-time single-payer advocate, said he would not seek funding for the law, effectively tabling the program called Green Mountain Care

snip//

“The idea of single-payer, or a Medicare-for-all type program, has always been a cherished dream for many in the Democratic Party,” said Henry J. Aaron, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a liberal-leaning Washington think tank. “In truth, there had never been a hard, developed plan to implement such a dream. In Vermont, they finally developed a plan, and look what happened.”

More..
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/01/25/costs-derail-vermont-single-payer-health-plan/VTAEZFGpWvTen0QFahW0pO/story.html

It is a shame about the costs being so high for Single Payer that it can't even work in Vermont. But, sanders is running on it on now? And, saying Hillary doesn't support Universal Health Care.. What damn game is he playing?



Thank you for your OP, she.. setting the record straight.

[jeepers]

81. If teeny tiny green Vermont

couldn't beat those evil goliaths pharma and insurance to give its people excellent healthcare what would make anyone think the federal government could do it

[LuvLoogie]

83. Bernie Sanders was in the Senate in 2008.

Hillary and Barack ran on health care reform in the 2008 Presidential election. John Conyers had a Single-Payer bill in the house. Bernie chatted it up.

So what did Senator Sanders do to sponsor a Senate version of Single-Payer? Jack Shit--until 2013. Why didn't he gave one ready to score along side the ACA in 2009?

Maybe he was too busy phoning in to Thom Hartmann, telling the listeners how Single-Payer is better.

[MaggieD]

89. Yep

You nailed that.

[yardwork]

110. That's a very good question.

What has Bernie Sanders done in terms of leadership in the Senate?

[SunSeeker]

91. Yup. It's a fact.

We need to stop tilting at windmills and put our energy toward a plan that has a chance of passage.

[eridani]

92. I'm really glad that the LGBT community refused to listen to people like you

Obviously, they should have just agreed with all the sensible woodchucks that marriage equality didn't have a chance, and advocating it was a waste of time.

We will never get single payer if nobody fights for it. Nobody who accomplished anything benefiting the general public has ever bothered to take advice from sensible woodchucks.

[moobu2]

103. The end justifies the means to Bernie Sanders

so he thinks it's acceptable to lead to his supporters on with phony promises he knows he can not back up even if it were to get him elected.

[William769]

107. Sanders never had a chance.