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reformist2

(9,841 posts)
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:09 AM Nov 2015

"Banned in USA" - Putin explains how Hillary & Obama are to blame for the current mess Iraq & Syria.


First, a disclaimer: Obviously Russia and China are likely playing the imperialist game just like the US is, so there is an element of hypocrisy to what Putin is saying. However, if you focus on his critique of recent US foreign policy in Iraq and Syria, it is accurate, and it is damning - especially for those of us who don't want the US to be playing the imperialist game.

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"Banned in USA" - Putin explains how Hillary & Obama are to blame for the current mess Iraq & Syria. (Original Post) reformist2 Nov 2015 OP
Well fuck, we did support them and we did arm them and they have joined ISIS. Autumn Nov 2015 #1
And if you ask the question, could they not see this coming? Of course they could. I think they know reformist2 Nov 2015 #4
Anyone else need some? I'm making. merrily Nov 2015 #2
Oh yeah I want some of that and I think I'll have some of this Autumn Nov 2015 #6
Popcorn makes me thirsty, too. I got you. Enjoy. merrily Nov 2015 #9
ah, now you love some Putin. uga uga riversedge Nov 2015 #3
Your mind is closed. If you never listen to your 'enemies', you may never know the truth. reformist2 Nov 2015 #5
You've taken a wise saying and turned it into crap, lol. nt BootinUp Nov 2015 #8
Whereas you skipped the wise saying. Efficiency is good. merrily Nov 2015 #11
One of the reasons they like to make Democrats and Republicans view each other as the enemy. Skwmom Nov 2015 #74
They have to take some responsibility for it, at least (nt) bigwillq Nov 2015 #7
So it isn't just the Republicans Dem2 Nov 2015 #10
Yeah, that's it! That's the ticket! I want to ingratiate myself to Putin. merrily Nov 2015 #13
I don't know if I should be surprised or not Putin has a following on DU. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #12
Truth has a large following on DU, no matter if it's your latest bogeyman stating it or not ... polly7 Nov 2015 #15
Truthiness has a large following... BootinUp Nov 2015 #17
Nah ....... you fixed nothing. polly7 Nov 2015 #18
Oh, do you not listen to anything Putin says? Are you afraid you might agree with him?? reformist2 Nov 2015 #19
He is a homophobe who has amassed a large fortune DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #22
What is your opinion on the treatment of gay people by the gulf monarchies CJCRANE Nov 2015 #38
Anybody who denies a fellow human being his or her humanity sucks, and not in a good way. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #41
But they are our staunch allies helping us spread democracy in the ME. CJCRANE Nov 2015 #43
Are fundamentalist Christians, Jews, and Muslims more homphobic than Putin, sure. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #47
What is going to happen to the gay people, women, christians and other religious minorities CJCRANE Nov 2015 #58
Beyond my ken to fix the M E DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #65
The christians and other minorities did okay under Assad and Gadaffi. CJCRANE Nov 2015 #69
Yes, they did. As did women also in Iraq. No more though ...... nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #71
I opposed the toppling of Saddam... DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #73
Bootlickers abound... SidDithers Nov 2015 #32
Speaking of yourself, Sid? nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #35
Thank you FlatBaroque Nov 2015 #52
You're welcome, my pleasure! polly7 Nov 2015 #55
+1 Comrade Grumpy Nov 2015 #103
I deliberately avoided that drama but I was flummoxed that... DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #36
You can tell a lot about someone by examining the source of their talking points and … NurseJackie Nov 2015 #14
You can tell even more about someone whose main 'concern' in all of this horror polly7 Nov 2015 #16
If Putin is the "go-to" guy for Bernie supporters talking points, it doesn't strengthten their case. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #21
Lmfao. polly7 Nov 2015 #23
I trust Hillary. Not Bernie. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #26
This is about those suffering because of ISIS, the causes, and hopefully ... a way to end it. polly7 Nov 2015 #27
Horseshit. No it wasn't. It was an attack on Hillary. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #29
Wow. So paranoid. I'd feel bad for you if it wasn't just an all-out attempt to polly7 Nov 2015 #30
Save your sympathy for Bernie. He's going to need it. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #33
I don't vote there. My sympathy is for all those suffering because of what's been done polly7 Nov 2015 #34
... and defending those who use Putin as a proxy to blame Hillary. I get it. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #37
"Use Putin as a proxy to blame Hillary" polly7 Nov 2015 #44
doing great NurseJackie Nov 2015 #49
So bitter. No concern at all for the victims of ISIS and the terror now in the ME and NA? nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #51
I understand how one can get into an internet forum fight and say stupid shit. nt BootinUp Nov 2015 #56
Then why do you do it? nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #59
Bait. Rejected. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #57
Omfg. People suffering because of ISIS are NOT bait. Absolutely sickening. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #60
More bait. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #78
This post makes my stomach sick, to be honest. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #81
+1 bahrbearian Nov 2015 #92
You have not said one word about the content of the OP or the issues it addresses. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2015 #104
Totally unnecessary. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #107
Aww ........ isn't he though. You forgot the bear?!? polly7 Nov 2015 #108
Yep, I trust her... Hepburn Nov 2015 #97
Jane Hudson thinks that's funny! NurseJackie Nov 2015 #99
Seems like a fitting pic. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #109
It is revealing. Do you cover your ears when a "bad guy" talks, and say "la la la I can't hear you"? reformist2 Nov 2015 #53
oopf! NurseJackie Nov 2015 #61
Rep Tulsi Gabbard: End Illegal War Against Syrian Government of Assad, Stop helping ISIS Cheese Sandwich Nov 2015 #20
She is going to be our first woman president SwampG8r Nov 2015 #90
She's got a bright future Cheese Sandwich Nov 2015 #91
Ms Gabbard rocks. But now she's going to be smeared as a Putin lover riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #94
I don't think I will be listening to a homophobic wannabe dictator. leftofcool Nov 2015 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author Cheese Sandwich Nov 2015 #25
Well, apparently it's the best they can do. E for effort, perhaps. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #28
What is your opinion on the treatment of gay people by the gulf monarchies CJCRANE Nov 2015 #39
I don't see any Gulf Monarchies' words being touted here as gospel. leftofcool Nov 2015 #93
That guy you won't listen to is a major player in Syria. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2015 #105
... according to RT...nt SidDithers Nov 2015 #31
Another closed mind. I see no reason to not at least listen to him! reformist2 Nov 2015 #42
This thread puts forth the idea that the blame for Syria, Iraq, ISIS is on 2 BootinUp Nov 2015 #46
McCain is #3. Nuland #4. Cayenne Nov 2015 #85
And still there has been nothing expressed in support of this thread that is a semblence BootinUp Nov 2015 #89
Your closed mind just wants to demean two good Democrats on a Dem board. Shameful riversedge Nov 2015 #54
By our actions we have given Putin legitimacy. Kip Humphrey Nov 2015 #40
Wrong! MattSh Nov 2015 #101
I sincerely hope that no one who supports using Putin as a source dsc Nov 2015 #45
Oooh, reductio ad Hitleram! We have a winner! reformist2 Nov 2015 #62
For gays in Russia dsc Nov 2015 #63
What is the future for gay people, women, christians and religious minorities post-Assad? CJCRANE Nov 2015 #66
I prefer democracies dsc Nov 2015 #70
So you think there will be a real democracy after Assad goes? Like in Iraq, Libya and Egypt? CJCRANE Nov 2015 #77
There isn't meant to be a real democracy. polly7 Nov 2015 #79
I didn't say getting democracy would be easy dsc Nov 2015 #86
What is your opinion on the gulf monarchies who are our allies CJCRANE Nov 2015 #64
I wouldn't use them as sources either dsc Nov 2015 #67
Putin and RT said it!? It MUST be true!!!! Adrahil Nov 2015 #48
List two things he has said about the US that were untrue. FlatBaroque Nov 2015 #50
I would be surprised if the above poster is willing to even listen to three minutes of Putin without reformist2 Nov 2015 #68
People also hate him because he originally played a part in stopping polly7 Nov 2015 #72
And I'm even acknowledging the possibility that Putin would do imperial nation-building if he could. reformist2 Nov 2015 #83
Well, some here just do not care about the situation, except to protect any and all of those who DID polly7 Nov 2015 #87
Sure, I'm willing to listen to him. Adrahil Nov 2015 #95
The thing about the Iraq war..... davidn3600 Nov 2015 #75
Yes, America forces people to behead other people. Putin is only demonstrating love in Crimea. randome Nov 2015 #76
So we should believe Putin, a champion of propaganda, no, Putin is responsible for protecting Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #80
What will happen if Assad goes? Will it be different this time, compared to post-Saddam and Gadaffi? CJCRANE Nov 2015 #82
It may continue to give some people confidence in believing Putin's propaganda, not me. Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #84
It's not meant to be different. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #88
Putin is a horrible person... one_voice Nov 2015 #96
Fuck Putin. Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #98
Vlad can say whatever he wants, as long as people keep in mind he is THE military dictator. Rex Nov 2015 #100
That's The Thing About War Hawks - Live By The Sword - Die By The Sword cantbeserious Nov 2015 #102
Bernie Sanders said he would do everything President Obama was doing. moobu2 Nov 2015 #106

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
4. And if you ask the question, could they not see this coming? Of course they could. I think they know
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:21 AM
Nov 2015

exactly what they are doing. It's plain old brute-force, thuggish imperialism. They just can't say be public with it, because most people aren't on board with that way of looking at the world anymore.

Autumn

(45,106 posts)
6. Oh yeah I want some of that and I think I'll have some of this
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:24 AM
Nov 2015
and wait for the inevitable Putin lovers!!!!! Where the hell is a picture of shirtless Putin on a bear??? Well I'm sure someone will post it.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
74. One of the reasons they like to make Democrats and Republicans view each other as the enemy.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:11 PM
Nov 2015

The Corporate Republicans say you can't trust the Democrats so ignore what they say.
The Corporate Democrats say you can't trust the Republicans so ignore what they say.

Of course, when the public gets tired of the acrimony, they preach bi-partisanship and the corporate Democrats and corporate Republicans come together to once again screw the American Public.

Divide and conquer.

They divide us by political party, by race, by gender, etc. Think about who beats those drums and what purpose it serves.


merrily

(45,251 posts)
13. Yeah, that's it! That's the ticket! I want to ingratiate myself to Putin.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:31 AM
Nov 2015

Um, remind me why do I want to do that?

polly7

(20,582 posts)
15. Truth has a large following on DU, no matter if it's your latest bogeyman stating it or not ...
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:34 AM
Nov 2015

some of us have watched it all unfold and come to our own conclusions. That Putin is stating the same is irrelevant ..... the facts should be repeated over and over, otherwise ....... how do you even begin to end it all? So much suffering, with the very real prospect of a regional all-out war - yet all some can do is complain about 'Putie love'.

Btw ..... substitute Libya every time he mentions Syria and it would also be accurate. But many believed that was also the right thing to do.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
22. He is a homophobe who has amassed a large fortune
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:55 AM
Nov 2015

He is a homophobe who has amassed a large fortune while suppressing dissent and letting many of his citizenry live in Third World conditions. He's not my cup of tea.


There are posters here who prefer him to Obama as is their right. I just wish they would cut through the pretense and say so. Pusillanimity is not an attractive feature.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
38. What is your opinion on the treatment of gay people by the gulf monarchies
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:21 PM
Nov 2015

who are helping us spread democracy in Syria?

What is your opinion on the treatment of gay people by the islamist rebels we are supporting in Syria?

What is your opinion of the treatment of gay people by the islamist forces in the newly liberated Libya?

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
41. Anybody who denies a fellow human being his or her humanity sucks, and not in a good way.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:23 PM
Nov 2015

I would add that Putin came upon his homophobia largely independently and propagates it for domestic consumption. Fundamentalist Muslims have have had 1,400 years of indoctrination.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
43. But they are our staunch allies helping us spread democracy in the ME.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:27 PM
Nov 2015

Would you call the fundamentalist version of sharia law practiced in these countries homophobic or something worse?

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
47. Are fundamentalist Christians, Jews, and Muslims more homphobic than Putin, sure.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:31 PM
Nov 2015

My problem with Putin is I believe he knows better and is doing it for domestic consumption. BTW, democracy in the M E is a chimera, or more precisely a democracy where individual rights are protected is a chimera in the M E.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
58. What is going to happen to the gay people, women, christians and other religious minorities
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:52 PM
Nov 2015

if Assad is toppled or steps aside?

How did toppling Saddam or Gadaffi help gay people, women, christians and other religious minorities?

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
69. The christians and other minorities did okay under Assad and Gadaffi.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:04 PM
Nov 2015

Saddam was good to christians but not so much to shias and kurds, but he did keep the lid on sunni fundamentalists.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
32. Bootlickers abound...
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:14 PM
Nov 2015

the exposure of the twitter comments from the recently self-exiled made that abundantly clear.

Sid

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
36. I deliberately avoided that drama but I was flummoxed that...
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:18 PM
Nov 2015

I deliberately avoided that drama but I was flummoxed that someone left because there is more support for Obama than Putin on a board for Democrats.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
14. You can tell a lot about someone by examining the source of their talking points and …
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:34 AM
Nov 2015

… the leaders they seek-out to shape their opinions and make their arguments. It's very interesting and quite revealing.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
16. You can tell even more about someone whose main 'concern' in all of this horror
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:36 AM
Nov 2015

is who talks about it.

IOW - there is none.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
21. If Putin is the "go-to" guy for Bernie supporters talking points, it doesn't strengthten their case.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:55 AM
Nov 2015

The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the red zone.


polly7

(20,582 posts)
23. Lmfao.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:58 AM
Nov 2015

You really haven't been paying attention to any of the 'go to guys' who've been saying this since it all began?!? Not very concerned at all, are you? I could post a hundred links saying the exact same things he is, I guess you missed all of those threads here. Putin was far more polite and reserved than the regular 'go to guys' who've tried hard to warn us all.

ISIS is the progeny of those in Washington, London and Paris who, in conspiring to destroy Iraq, Syria and Libya, committed an epic crime against humanity. Like Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, ISIS are the mutations of a western state terror dispensed by a venal imperial elite undeterred by the consequences of actions taken at great remove in distance and culture. Their culpability is unmentionable in "our" societies, making accomplices of those who suppress this critical truth.

It is 23 years since a holocaust enveloped Iraq, immediately after the first Gulf War, when the US and Britain hijacked the United Nations Security Council and imposed punitive "sanctions" on the Iraqi population - ironically, reinforcing the domestic authority of Saddam Hussein. It was like a medieval siege. Almost everything that sustained a modern state was, in the jargon, "blocked" - from chlorine for making the water supply safe to school pencils, parts for X-ray machines, common painkillers and drugs to combat previously unknown cancers carried in the dust from the southern battlefields contaminated with Depleted Uranium. Just before Christmas 1999, the Department of Trade and Industry in London restricted the export of vaccines meant to protect Iraqi children against diphtheria and yellow fever. Kim Howells, parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Blair government, explained why. "The children's vaccines", he said, "were capable of being used in weapons of mass destruction". The British Government could get away with such an outrage because media reporting of Iraq - much of it manipulated by the Foreign Office - blamed Saddam Hussein for everything.

Under a bogus "humanitarian" Oil for Food Programme, $100 was allotted for each Iraqi to live on for a year. This figure had to pay for the entire society's infrastructure and essential services, such as power and water. "Imagine," the UN Assistant Secretary General, Hans Von Sponeck, told me, "setting that pittance against the lack of clean water, and the fact that the majority of sick people cannot afford treatment, and the sheer trauma of getting from day to day, and you have a glimpse of the nightmare. And make no mistake, this is deliberate. I have not in the past wanted to use the word genocide, but now it is unavoidable." Disgusted, Von Sponeck resigned as UN Humanitarian Co-ordinator in Iraq. His predecessor, Denis Halliday, an equally distinguished senior UN official, had also resigned. "I was instructed," Halliday said, "to implement a policy that satisfies the definition of genocide: a deliberate policy that has effectively killed well over a million individuals, children and adults."

A study by the United Nations Children's Fund, Unicef, found that between 1991 and 1998, the height of the blockade, there were 500,000 "excess" deaths of Iraqi infants under the age of five. An American TV reporter put this to Madeleine Albright, US Ambassador to the United Nations, asking her, "Is the price worth it?" Albright replied, "We think the price is worth it."


The only effective opponents of ISIS are accredited demons of the west - Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and now Russia. The obstacle is Turkey, an "ally" and a member of Nato, which has conspired with the CIA, MI6 and the Gulf medievalists to channel support to the Syrian "rebels", including those now calling themselves ISIS. Supporting Turkey in its long-held ambition for regional dominance by overthrowing the Assad government beckons a major conventional war and the horrific dismemberment of the most ethnically diverse state in the Middle East.


From Pol Pot to ISIS: The blood never dried
16 November 2015
John Pilger

http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-pol-pot-to-isis-the-blood-never-dried


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016137697

By Vijay Prashad
Source: open democracy
November 22, 2015

Macho language about “pitiless war” defines the contours of leadership these days. Little else is on offer. It is red meat to our emotions.

Where did these ISIS attackers come from? The temptation is to blame religion or race, to take the eye off more substantial areas of investigation. Amnesia is the order of the day. Each terror attack on the west resets the clock. No-one must pay attention to the western and Saudi-backed World Muslim League, whose job was to destroy the forces of secular nationalism and communism in the Arab world in the 1960s and 1970s. All those who were on the good side of history fell to the sword, destroyed as anti-Islamic in order to protect the Gulf Arab emirates and the Saudi kingdom as well as western interests in oil and power.

We must not mention the western and Saudi assault on Afghanistan in the 1970s, before the Soviet intervention, to cut down that nation’s communist republic. No one should talk about the creation of the “mujahideen”, whose core contained a brutal kernel that exploded into al-Qaeda. Why make so much of the wars on Iraq and then on Libya and Syria, which wrecked states and turned them – like Afghanistan – into playgrounds for the “jihadis”, children of the Cold War?

Disbelief will greet those who remind us of western violence, from the aerial bombardment of Libya in 1911 to the bombing of Libya in 2011 – untold numbers dead; “it was not war,” wrote a journalist in 1911, “it was butchery.” Few will go to their shelves and pull out Leila Sebbar’s La Seine était rouge, a searing novel about the French government’s murder of hundreds of pro-Algerian protesters in Paris in October 1961.

You will not ask who influenced these young men, sanctified by their governments to go fight in a war elsewhere and then inspired by Saudi-funded clerics who told them not only to fight in Syria but to go home and create mayhem? You will think all this is made up, that I want to justify the massacres.

There is no justification here. There is only the recitation of a pitiless history that is buried under official clichés.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016136050

by William Blum / November 3rd, 2015

Are you confused by the Middle East? Here are some things you should know. (But you’ll probably still be confused.)

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
26. I trust Hillary. Not Bernie.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:08 PM
Nov 2015

Apparently, so do most Democrats. Bernie is NOT going to be the nominee. If he can't convince DEMOCRATS to support him, how the hell can he be influential in anything else he attempts? I'm sorry, and I know this is upsetting to his supporters, but that's just the way it is.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
27. This is about those suffering because of ISIS, the causes, and hopefully ... a way to end it.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:09 PM
Nov 2015

Maybe you missed that in all your 'concern'.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
30. Wow. So paranoid. I'd feel bad for you if it wasn't just an all-out attempt to
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:13 PM
Nov 2015

distract from the horror that's happening, so you can play the victim.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
34. I don't vote there. My sympathy is for all those suffering because of what's been done
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:16 PM
Nov 2015

to the ME, NA and those everywhere suffering from terrorist attacks.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
37. ... and defending those who use Putin as a proxy to blame Hillary. I get it.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:20 PM
Nov 2015

Yeah, I kinda figured you didn't vote here. That shouldn't stop you from also feeling sympathy for Bernie.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
44. "Use Putin as a proxy to blame Hillary"
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:28 PM
Nov 2015

Nah ....... I'm much more interested in the message of how it got started - those same facts that have been posted here for months. If your candidate or anyone else's was part of creating the horror - I can see why they'd be so quick to blame anyone else for it. I can't really blame you for that.

But why would I feel sympathy for Bernie - from all I've read, he's fantastic and is doing great! He reminds me of Tommy Douglas up here - hated by many, including doctors, and feared by all those who stood to lose with his revolutionary health-care change.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
49. doing great
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:36 PM
Nov 2015


I guess that all depends on how one measures success. Not being the nominee is not a good measure of success. Using Putin as a proxy is a sign of weakness.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
57. Bait. Rejected.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:52 PM
Nov 2015

I think we're near the end of this exchange. Maybe there's some online poll or hashtag war that would be a more productive use of your time. This certainly is a waste of your time, and mine.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
78. More bait.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:21 PM
Nov 2015

Oh, dear. So silly. Criticizing the use Putin as a proxy to attack Hillary is not the same as someone "not caring" about "people suffering". An absolutely absurd assertion, and it's a type of argument that suggests a position of weakness. This exchange is wasting your time, and mine. But most importantly, mine.


You may have the last word. Make Shirley proud.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
104. You have not said one word about the content of the OP or the issues it addresses.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 06:15 PM
Nov 2015

It's all about shameless partisan hackery for you.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
107. Totally unnecessary.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 06:32 PM
Nov 2015

That anyone feels the need to use Putin as their proxy attack-dog speaks for itself.

Here's a photo of Putin that his admirers may enjoy:

Isn't he dreamy?

polly7

(20,582 posts)
108. Aww ........ isn't he though. You forgot the bear?!?
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 06:50 PM
Nov 2015

How about these, aren't they dreamy? This is the result of what you're having so much fun! laughing off:












 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
91. She's got a bright future
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 02:01 PM
Nov 2015

I think she could have a place in a Sanders cabinet maybe. And yes maybe President some day.

She's also doing Obama a favor by bringing this message out because he needs the truth out there to be able to resist the war hawks who want to see us in a conflict with Russia and Iran.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
94. Ms Gabbard rocks. But now she's going to be smeared as a Putin lover
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 02:16 PM
Nov 2015

judging by some of the comments on this thread.



It does expose those posters however as narrow. As though they don't read newspapers or anything out of their comfort zone.

SMH

I agree with swampg8tr that Gabbard has the right stuff to be a future presidential candidate (and maybe take the office as well)

Thanks for posting that

Response to leftofcool (Reply #24)

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
39. What is your opinion on the treatment of gay people by the gulf monarchies
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:22 PM
Nov 2015

who are helping us spread democracy in Syria?

What is your opinion on the treatment of gay people by the islamist rebels we are supporting in Syria?

What is your opinion of the treatment of gay people by the islamist forces in the newly liberated Libya?

BootinUp

(47,165 posts)
46. This thread puts forth the idea that the blame for Syria, Iraq, ISIS is on 2
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:30 PM
Nov 2015

people. That is the most closed minded simplistic view of the situation that one can express.

BootinUp

(47,165 posts)
89. And still there has been nothing expressed in support of this thread that is a semblence
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:38 PM
Nov 2015

of intelligent discussion on the issue.

dsc

(52,162 posts)
45. I sincerely hope that no one who supports using Putin as a source
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:28 PM
Nov 2015

has the gall to complain about the use of Stormfront. Putin is Stormfront on steroids.

dsc

(52,162 posts)
63. For gays in Russia
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:59 PM
Nov 2015

Putin is pretty much Hitler in the mid 1930's but you apparently don't care enough about gays to bother to know that.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
66. What is the future for gay people, women, christians and religious minorities post-Assad?
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:02 PM
Nov 2015

How did they fare after Saddam and Gadaffi were toppled?

Do you prefer islamist regimes?

dsc

(52,162 posts)
70. I prefer democracies
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:05 PM
Nov 2015

and if they make decisions I don't like then I can boycott their countries. The only ME country that treats gays well is Israel which has its own issues with Palestinians. It is also the only democracy, go figure.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
77. So you think there will be a real democracy after Assad goes? Like in Iraq, Libya and Egypt?
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:18 PM
Nov 2015

It will be islamist.

You can't conquer a country using islamist fighters bankrolled by islamist monarchies and expect a liberal democracy.

That will condemn gay people, christians and other minorities to a terrible fate and help to spread even more fundamentalism.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
79. There isn't meant to be a real democracy.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:22 PM
Nov 2015

Unless it's a puppet 'democratic' gov't, which as we've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan have been able to do nothing to stop the terror or recruitment of IS in their own countries.

dsc

(52,162 posts)
86. I didn't say getting democracy would be easy
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:31 PM
Nov 2015

or for that matter lead to a pro gay state. Egypt got democracy for a short time post dictatorship and it wasn't pro gay, I don't know how Tunisia is in that regard, but being pro gay isn't the be all end all for me. Democracy is the be all end all for me. I think we should do what we can to get democracy in those countries and that might include supporting fighters or it might not depending on what fighters exist. And as to gays we should refuse to do business with countries that are anti gay just like we would with ones which are anti Christian.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
64. What is your opinion on the gulf monarchies who are our allies
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:00 PM
Nov 2015

in spreading democracy and the islamist rebels we support?

dsc

(52,162 posts)
67. I wouldn't use them as sources either
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:03 PM
Nov 2015

and quite frankly they have been a large part of the problem in regards to the middle east.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
48. Putin and RT said it!? It MUST be true!!!!
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:34 PM
Nov 2015

Yeah... not gonna listen to Putin for advice. Generally speaking, whatever he says about the U.S., believe the opposite.

FlatBaroque

(3,160 posts)
50. List two things he has said about the US that were untrue.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:40 PM
Nov 2015

You don't even have to provide links. Just pull 'em out of your...head.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
68. I would be surprised if the above poster is willing to even listen to three minutes of Putin without
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:04 PM
Nov 2015

someone telling him or her what to think!

polly7

(20,582 posts)
72. People also hate him because he originally played a part in stopping
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:10 PM
Nov 2015

the much longed-for 'regime change' in Syria in 2012. That same regime change mentality that has decimated Iraq, Libya and so many countries around the world and caused the power vacuums in the ME and NA that have led to groups like ISIS taking over with their brutal, horrific acts.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
83. And I'm even acknowledging the possibility that Putin would do imperial nation-building if he could.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:29 PM
Nov 2015

No matter his actual intentions, it doesn't change the accuracy of his critique of US foreign policy. I think it's interesting how few people are willing to listen at all, when it's someone from overseas criticizing us. I have to question their ability to be objective thinkers.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
87. Well, some here just do not care about the situation, except to protect any and all of those who DID
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:33 PM
Nov 2015

help to cause it. Nothing on the dead, the maimed, the homeless, the migrants dying at sea and being beaten and brutalized where they do land. The horror for those still in Syria living with the bombing ... the kidnappings, rape, murder. He's saying what many, many have said all along. But some simply care more for their own interests than anything happening with the people who bear the brunt of a foreign policy that's caused this time and time again. Our own involvement with NATO's help in causing it, included.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
95. Sure, I'm willing to listen to him.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 02:51 PM
Nov 2015

I just keep in mind that he is former agent of the KGB with a deep-seated hatred of West, and is a professional and practiced liar. His goal is establish himself and his political allies as undisputed rulers of a new Russian empire.

Some in the West are willing to embrace him on an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of basis.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
75. The thing about the Iraq war.....
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:14 PM
Nov 2015

I don't believe this country fully understood what it was getting into and what it would entail. The Bush administration sold that war as a 3-week campaign and that we would virtually be in and out quickly. And that might not have been a lie. They likely believed that it would really be that easy.

You go in, get rid of the government.
Train some police and soldiers.
Set up a democracy.
Then leave.
Simple. Right?

The insurgency took us by surprise. What also took us by surprise is the amount of corruption and the terrorism. We underestimated the differences between the different sects of Islam. And this country wasn't determined to go the lengths necessary to clean up the mess we created. That allowed groups like ISIS to establish themselves.

It's a failure on Obama because he's done virtually nothing to stop ISIS. Now, if he wants to have a policy of getting out of mid-east affairs because it's not our business or our problem...fine. But the world is sort of up in arms now because we started this mess and now it seems we are not interested in fixing it because it's not as simple as Bush said it would be. That's how much of the world views it. "Shock and awe" and controlling drones from half-way around the world is easy and America loves doing that. But then America runs away when the job gets tough on the ground.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
76. Yes, America forces people to behead other people. Putin is only demonstrating love in Crimea.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:15 PM
Nov 2015

And Democrats should always be ashamed of ourselves. We are so dirty, dirty, DIRTY!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
80. So we should believe Putin, a champion of propaganda, no, Putin is responsible for protecting
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:22 PM
Nov 2015

Assad, keeping him propped up, don't believe Putin.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
82. What will happen if Assad goes? Will it be different this time, compared to post-Saddam and Gadaffi?
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:23 PM
Nov 2015

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
96. Putin is a horrible person...
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 04:17 PM
Nov 2015

I really don't give a rat's ass what his opinion is.

I don't care for the message or the messenger.




 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
100. Vlad can say whatever he wants, as long as people keep in mind he is THE military dictator.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 04:32 PM
Nov 2015

I guess most don't think about it, but Putin is THE biggest military dictator on the planet. Nobody else even comes close.

As far as being right, that happens...even Cheney says things that are correct, doesn't change the fact he thought about nuking Iraq! NUKING!

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