Should Thatcher have been supported because she was a woman?

[AZ Progressive]

Policy positions and the candidate's integrity should matter more than one's gender, or even a desire to make a political statement. Obama is the first black American president but what good has that done to black people? The net effect hasn't been positive.

[NCTraveler]

1. WTF?

"Should Thatcher have been supported because she was a woman?"

[merrily]

2. Of course not! Why do you ask?

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. That was asked purely to stir some sh!t with an Arizona bult Straw man. n/t

[merrily]

35. Straw man tends to be in a reply, not an OP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[1StrongBlackMan]

36. Okay. Next point to be contested: Fire is hot. Go. n/t

[merrily]

37. ok nt

[McCamy Taylor]

3. This is like saying Obama should not have been president because Idi Amin was a brutal tyrant.

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. Nope!

But Thatcher was much more of a feminist role model than Hillary, ironically. Thatcher didn't get where she did because of who her husband was, she did it herself; Hillary? Appointed a partner in the Rose Law Firm after Bill was elected Arkansas Attorney General; apppointed to the board of directors of Wal-Mart after Bill was elected governor; elected to the Senate after carpetbagging to NY and running on the Clinton name. It honestly makes me laugh when people act as though Hillary is any kind of feminist role model.

[BootinUp]

5. Wow

Successful people who have successful spouses cannot be good role models! Gotcha.

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. And, apparently, doesn't know much about law practices ...

"Appointed to partner of the Rose Law Firm".

[NCTraveler]

7. Let me guess, you are a man.

"But Thatcher was much more of a feminist role model than Hillary, ironically."

No self respecting woman would type that putrid shit. For the jury, hide if you must. Calling Thatcher moe of a feminist role model than Clinton isn't something that is written at a place I want to be anyway.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. Yes, but my wife isn't and she agrees with me (and she hates Thatcher more than I do; she's British)

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. Please say "male" ... rather than "Man" ...

thanks.

[Metric System]

50. Maybe Bill wouldn't have gotten where he did without her. He didn't get her into Wellesley or Yale

law school.

[MADem]

6. That wasn't "our" decision. That includes you, too. Unless you're British.

They liked her schtick, they voted her in. They got what they bargained for--they wanted austerity, they wanted privatization, they wanted tax structure changes and they got all of it.

She had an eleven year run, so they apparently LIKED what they got, for a decade or so, anyway. It wasn't trolls and gremlins keeping her in office--it was the majority of the population.

Oh, those last two sentences? Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Are you in a position to judge? I don't think you are. You might consider just walking away from that kind of schtick.

[hlthe2b]

9. You think Clinton is akin to Thatcher? REALLY? No one here who is not a troll supports RW,

US teabaggers or conservatives--here or in Britain.

If you think otherwise, this is going to get ugly.

[AZ Progressive]

14. You get outraged at me comparing Hillary to Thatcher? Then you didn't read this

From an article talking about the 2008 election:

Clinton’s chief strategist, Mark Penn, said he believed voters view the president as the “father” of the country. But he also believed they would accept a female “father,” provided she were tough enough.

Penn’s Platonic ideal of such a female leader was Thatcher. “We are more Thatcher than anyone else,” he wrote. Clinton, like Thatcher, he believed, was an “Iron Lady” and should present herself as such.

- http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-04-08/what-margaret-thatcher-taught-hillary-clinton

[hlthe2b]

30. You really don't get complex comparisons, it seems...(nor opportunistic ones, as in your article)

[truebrit71]

10. She should never gave been supported by anyone...

... regardless of her gender.

Seriously, fuck Thatcher. Twice. Sideways.

Bad example.

[KittyWampus]

11. "Obama is the 1st black POTUS but what good has that done to black people"

Yeah, and Sanders supporters point to one or two posts from Hillarysupporters.com or whatever website that is as if there isn't a mountain of ugly crap right here on DU.

[MeNMyVolt]

18. Agree. This place is very ugly at times. nt

[99Forever]

12. You seem to have struck a nerve in Camp Weathervane.

[Agnosticsherbet]

13. I have a number of issues that are a factor in my decision. Because women and minorities have been

shafted in our system, Gender and race are a factor in my decision. If all other factors are equal between two candidates, I would vote for a woman. Men have controlled the system for too long.

Being a woman gives Clinton an advantage, a checkmark on positive side of my list.

There are many other factors, and the person with the most positive checkmarks gets my vote.

If I were British, my political philosophy would fall in the Labor Party. The Liberal Democratic Party, which was a merger of the old Liberal Party and the Social Democratic party (which was formed by centrist members of the labor party) is not a good fit. As a member of the Labor Party, I would not have voted for the Conservative Party, and thus would not have voted for a Thatcher led government.

This OP is a very poor analogy, since we have very different election systems.

[sibelian]

41. And if all other factors are mostly decidedly NOT equal...

What then? Would your voting for someone who is Not A Woman be sexist? Or just.... voting?

[Agnosticsherbet]

45. I count to see who is closest to determine the best candidate to be my

representative.

If you read my post, you would have got that. Also I said nothing about sexist.

Don't read between my lines, I put nothing there.

[sibelian]

48. I put NOTHING EITHER, thank you, I asked politely like a good citizen.

And so we are in accord.

All is harmonious.

[Agnosticsherbet]

49. Thats Ok.

[question everything]

15. Shall Ben Carson be supported becausde he is black?

This is what happened in 2008. Hillary supporters are derided because many like you think that this is why she is chosen. Yet, no one ever had a problem with many blacks, including the Black Congressional caucus who said they supported Obama because he was black.

But, oh the double standard and misogyny on these page. Nothing new under the sun.

[AZ Progressive]

16. Obama turned out to be a moderate Republican. However, we didn't have any viable alternatives in 08

So I guess Obama was our best choice back then.

[question everything]

21. Oh yes, we did. And we will see this starting January 2017

when Hillary Clinton takes the oath of office.

Obama disappointed many of his supporters, but not those of us who were ready for this. He was a blank card that everyone imagine their wishes. We knew where Hillary was standing then and we know where she stands now. OK, there are bound to be changes but I doubt that many will be so much disappointed.

The point is. Those of us who supported Hillary did vote for Obama. Most of us. And if, by a cheer chance, Bernie will be the nominee we will do the same. Will you vote for Hillary if she is the nominee? Or would you rather have President Ted Cruz.... OK, waiting, no lightening strike. But the thought of Cruz is still depressing..

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Voting for someone because of gender is the same as voting against someone because of gender.

[moobu2]

19. This sexist bull shit shouldn't be allowed on DU

Nobody is supporting Hillary Clinton just because she is a woman.

[AZ Progressive]

20. Because you say so?

[emsimon33]

23. Can't believe you didn't get at least a "hidden" for stating the obvious

or called out for treason!

[2pooped2pop]

51. treason?

It is far more treasonous to vote for someone that will continue the downward slide of our country than to ask this simple question.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. This is messed up on so many levels

Obama is the first black American president but what good has that done to black people? The net effect hasn't been positive.

Have you polled them?


Have you met many who have told you that?


Pray tell, where did you get that notion ?


BTW, I am white and I don't speak for all whites and I damn sure don't believe I speak for all African Americans.


What a toxic thing to say.

[bravenak]

26. They get to say whatever they want because they matter way more.

[KittyWampus]

32. this is the down-side to being 85% of the DU population. Sanders supporters

are in such a bubble here they will be utterly unprepared when their candidate CRASHES & BERNS

[emsimon33]

22. Good point!

[TSIAS]

24. No

Neither would I have supported Bachmann or Fiorina.

[TSIAS]

27. Jury results

On Sat Nov 21, 2015, 02:52 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Should Thatcher have been supported because she was a woman?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251835271

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Divisive flamebait.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Nov 21, 2015, 03:13 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stupid alert.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Over the top flamebait
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is a sad state of affairs when someone tries to shut down discussion like this. Deal with it.

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: " Divisive flamebait." Doesn't that describe a great portion of GDP?
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm torn, support Sanders, don't like Sec. Clinton, hate Thatcher. The o.p. does seem to be trying to cause division, though.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Criticizing a political figure isn't an offense that requires hiding, even while the statement is mildly offensive.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Flamebait? Hardly.


Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I was juror #4.

[Jack Rabbit]

28. You beat me to it

/s/
Juror #3

[tularetom]

29. Of course Clinton is not as bad as Thatcher although that's setting the bar pretty low

[leftofcool]

38. Oh Lordy, here it is again

[Samantha]

39. Margaret Thatcher along with Ronald Reagan made the following concept popular

Greed is good.

And from that point on, you know the rest.

Sam

[Rosa Luxemburg]

40. Many women regretted voting for her

[Starry Messenger]

42. If I had a dollar for every time some brogressive has stated "But Margaret Thatcher!!11"

I'd have enough to retire. Give it a rest.

[BainsBane]

43. I am fucking fed up with these blanket insults toward women

The assumption that women are supporting Clinton solely because of her gender is ignorant and sexist. The rest of you have voted exclusively for male presidents your entire lives, yet you have the nerve to suggest the one woman who might be elected is supported solely because of her gender? Clearly you have no concept how ludicrous that is, but it is clear that too many of you are so desperate to cling to uncontested male privilege that you cannot help but insult women who have the nerve to vote in defiance of your instructions.

Times are changing. Women will be elected to the presidency, and the US will catch up with the rest of the world. Deal with it.

[BootinUp]

44. "Deal with it"

I don't think they are going to have a choice, lol.

[stevenleser]

47. Hillary is cleaning Sanders' clock with virtually every diversity group. Women, AA's, Latinos etc

Every diversity group that has been polled prefers Hillary to Sanders.

I'm waiting to see polls of Asians, Muslims, Jews, LGBT and various others but I am sure they will say the same thing.

The issue is not why women support Sanders. The issue is why Sanders can't broaden his support beyond young white straight males.

[stevenleser]

46. Republicans are similarly clueless about lack of AA support for Clarence Thomas and Allen West

while folks like Barack Obama and Charles Rangel get support. Hillary's supporters would not support Sarah Palin or Phyllis Shlafly.

Your post is yet another example of a Sanders supporter posting something that you/they clearly think will help Sanders somehow, but will instead change no ones mind and will help turn a number of people off to even consider supporting him.

The attacks on BLM in the wake of the protest of Sanders in early August is another example.

This is going to be the epitaph of Sanders' campaign. He and his supporters couldn't find a way to change people's minds. And many folks will write about how instead of changing minds, his supporters turned people off.

[Lil Missy]

52. of course not. But if she's the best qualified

I wouldn't let someone on du change my mind.