I seriously think that only Bernie's most die hard supporters made it through his entire speech

[bravenak]

I know I didn't listen to the whole thing. I kinda got bored part way through and moved on with my life. I came back into the room and noticed my ipad playing and then remembered I was listening to his speech. Oops! I bet not many minds were changed at all. Just my opinion.

[misterhighwasted]

1. I forgot all about it. Haven't heard anything yet either.

[bravenak]

3. I just tried making it through.

I'm sorry but it was part history lesson, part lecture, and part stump speech.

[misterhighwasted]

14. snooze..sorry you had to go through that.

At least you had your IPad!

[bravenak]

24. Right? I love my ipad. I wanna get the ipad pro. I forget when I can get it. Soon, maybe for next

semester. Oooooohhh!!! I NEED AN IPAD PRO RIGHT NOW!!! Need it so bad.

[misterhighwasted]

30. oh ya, that would be very nice!!

Sleek, fast & all yours.

[bravenak]

33. All that sweet memory. Mmmmm. In love..

[merrily]

2. Applause was deafening and prolonged.

[LiberalArkie]

4. Not much was said really.

The next time you hear me attacked as a socialist—like tomorrow—remember this: I don’t believe government should take over the grocery store down the street or own the means of production, but I do believe that the middle class and the working families of this country who produce the wealth of this country deserve a decent standard of living and that their incomes should go up, not down.

I do believe in private companies that thrive and invest and grow in America, companies that create jobs here rather than companies that are shutting down in America and increasing their profits by exploiting low-wage labor abroad.

I believe that most Americans can pay lower taxes if hedge fund managers who make billions manipulating the marketplace finally start paying the taxes that they should.

I don't believe in special treatment for the top 1 percent, but I do believe in equal treatment for African Americans who are right to proclaim the moral principle that Black Lives Matter.

I despise appeals to nativism and prejudice of which we have been hearing a lot in recent months, and I do believe in immigration reform that gives Hispanics and others a pathway to citizenship and a better life.


"I am disturbed by some of what I am hearing from my Republican colleagues, and I will just say this: During these difficult times, as Americans we will not succumb to racism," he said. "We will not allow ourselves to be divided and succumb to Islamophobia. We will not turn our backs on the refugees."

[bravenak]

5. Yeah. It pretty much sounded like his stump speech and a history lecture.

[Cosmic Kitten]

45. Is that the *talking point* team H> is going with?

*just like his stump speech*

[Gothmog]

50. Have you looked at the polling on the terms socialism and socialist?

The terms socialism and socialist poll very very badly. In the real world, real campaigns and real political operations conduct something that is called polling. Polling helps real campaigns refine their message and avoid traps. I know that the Sanders campaign considers polling to be a waste of time and money which worries me as to whether Sanders is a viable candidate. DWS is well aware of this polling
.
From Pew http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/little-change-in-publics-response-to-capitalism-socialism/

The word ‘socialism’ triggers a negative reaction for most Americans, but certainly not for all. Six-in-ten (60%) people say they have a negative reaction to the word, while just 31% have a positive reaction. Those numbers are little changed from April 2010....

By contrast, socialism is a far more divisive word, with wide differences of opinion along racial, generational, socioeconomic and political lines. Fully nine-in-ten conservative Republicans (90%) view socialism negatively, while nearly six-in-ten liberal Democrats (59%) react positively. Low-income Americans are twice as likely as higher-income Americans to offer a positive assessment of socialism (43% among those with incomes under $30,000, 22% among those earning $75,000 or more).

From Gallop http://www.gallup.com/poll/125645/Socialism-Viewed-Positively-Americans.aspx

PRINCETON, NJ -- More than one-third of Americans (36%) have a positive image of "socialism," while 58% have a negative image. Views differ by party and ideology, with a majority of Democrats and liberals saying they have a positive view of socialism, compared to a minority of Republicans and conservatives.



....Socialism

Socialism had the lowest percentage positive rating and the highest negative rating of any term tested. Still, more than a third of Americans say they have a positive image of socialism.

Exactly how Americans define "socialism" or what exactly they think of when they hear the word is not known. The research simply measures Americans' reactions when a survey interviewer reads the word to them -- an exercise that helps shed light on connotations associated with this frequently used term.

There are significant differences in reactions to "socialism" across ideological and partisan groups:

A majority of 53% of Democrats have a positive image of socialism, compared to 17% of Republicans.
Sixty-one percent of liberals say their image of socialism is positive, compared to 39% of moderates and 20% of conservatives

It will take a great deal more than one speech not carried by national media to change these views. Sanders would have to engage in a massive advertising and educational campaign to erase these type of polling numbers.

[Cosmic Kitten]

60. Have you seen the polling on the existence of Hell?

Belief in hell varies only somewhat among other demographic categories, although likelihood to believe is somewhat lower across the board than was the case for heaven. With regard to political orientation, 83% of Republicans say they believe in hell, vs. 69% of Democrats and 58% of those who say they are independent.

Gallup research indicates that belief in some other supernatural beings may be on the rise. In 1994, 72% of Americans said they believed in angels, and that percentage has increased to 78% today. Belief in the devil has increased from 55% in 1990 to 70% in 2004.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/11770/eternal-destinations-americans-believe-heaven-hell.aspx

SO.... Based on the polls
there IS a HELL and the DEVIL is real.

Efff polls

[coyote]

119. Thanks for the laugh

Lol

[Kentonio]

112. Excellent work.

An article from 2010 and another from 2012. What we pull out some Hillary polls from 2007 to complete the history lesson?

[Gothmog]

141. Even the more current polling does not help Sanders' case

Here is a recent article https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/12/why-bernie-sanders-isnt-going-to-be-president-in-5-words/

Yes, I am aware that some more recent polling — Internet-based, it's worth noting — suggests that socialism is getting more and more popular, particularly among young people. And that, as a recent New Yorker profile of Sanders makes clear, many of his supporters are drawn to his unwillingness to abandon the term. Here's a key passage:

Sanders has been known as a democratic socialist for decades. This didn’t matter much to Kiley or York, or to most other Sanders supporters I met during the next few weeks; mainly, they were impressed that he hadn’t shed the term. York thought that, because of Sanders and his “social-media-driven fans,” socialism was “getting a bit of a P.R. makeover.” She noted that sites like Reddit and Twitter were circulating videos of “Bernie explaining why he identifies as a socialist, and what it means to him, in a really positive light.” She added, “The word had a retro connection to Communism and was originally thrown at him as a damning label by his opponents. But for his supporters it isn’t a deterrent.”

But even in that Internet survey and even among millennials, the group most inclined to see socialism favorably, capitalism is still preferred by more people. And, people who are drawn to Sanders — at least so far — aren't even a majority of Democrats, much less the entire country.

The simple political fact is that if Sanders did ever manage to win the Democratic presidential nomination — a long shot but far from a no shot at this point — Republicans would simply clip Sanders's answer to Todd above and put it in a 30-second TV ad. That would, almost certainly, be the end of Sanders's viability in a general election.

[NurseJackie]

58. Nice try ...

... but not every criticism of Bernie can be so easily dismissed by characterizing it as a meme. This criticism appears to be pretty accurate.

[Cosmic Kitten]

63. IS that why Team H> keep repeating it....verbatim?

[NurseJackie]

70. I understand your frustration. This will all be over sooner than you think.

Is that a "meme" too?



Verbatim?

[bravenak]

73. So many memes, so little time.

I cannot keep track of them all.

[NCTraveler]

140. "Is that a "meme" too? "

Perfect. lol.

[bravenak]

61. You are always amused.

[bahrbearian]

66. I like listening to Hillary speak, it changes day to day.

Bernie never changes, I can see how YOU would get bored.

[bravenak]

71. The yelling bores me.

The lecturing us like we are bad children. The history lessons that we already know.

[Fawke Em]

139. At least he doesn't have that nasally screetch.

And, he doesn't change his accent in every region he visits.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Sounds like traditional or modern liberalism to me.

EOM

[treestar]

125. That second paragraph should have him under the bus

with most of his supporters here. Private companies? Corporations?

[juxtaposed]

6. Well, we all know what opinions are like--everyone has one

[bravenak]

10. Cool

[Cosmic Kitten]

7. Think it was as boring an event as Hillary's ...even to the *most die hard*!?

Remember when Hillary speechified
in the same hall?







Looks like A LOT of people
moved on with their lives...
even before Hillary started talking

[bravenak]

8. And? She's winning.

[reformist2]

11. Yeah, like Charlie Sheen.

[bravenak]

12. She does not have HIV. Stop that!

[Cosmic Kitten]

17. What are you saying?

[bravenak]

20. That I watch the news and that's not nice to say. I feel for him and all who are close to him.

We shouldn't pick on Charlie right now.

[Cosmic Kitten]

26. *winning* has nothing to do with HIV

It's a state of cognitive dissnance
where despite evidence to the
contrary poeple continue to cling
to easily disprovable ideas.

Hillary isn't *winning* anything,
but as a marginal lead in a few polls.

[bravenak]

29. Then why invoke Charlie Sheen? We know what he is dealing with. It's on the news daily.

[Cosmic Kitten]

39. Now you are *winning* this tread

kbaithnx

[bravenak]

48. I guess winning treads is bad?

[Cha]

88. Not in your case.

[bravenak]

99. Awww, thank you!

[John Poet]

74. LMAO!!! +1000 !!!

[Cha]

92. Are you making fun of Charlie Sheen who has HIV?

[Major Hogwash]

105. It's the tiger blood that did it.

You can't be a real winner without that!

[bravenak]

109. Did this make you feel happy?

[tk2kewl]

142. Lol

That was funny.

[Cosmic Kitten]

16. Snarf

[Skidmore]

25. I can't imagine Sanders being able to address the topic of

international policy with the knowledge and depth that she did.

[Cosmic Kitten]

35. I can't imagine Bernie pimping the Iraq war like Hillary did

Also, I can't imagine Bernie advocating
continued destabilization of the middle east
in places like, Egypt, Libya, and Syria
like Hillary continues to do.

So there's that.
She may have *information*
but she lacks foresight and judgement.

She's not presidential material.
Apologizing after promoting a war
exemplifies horrifyingly bad judgement.

[Cha]

89. That's because he can't.

[Kentonio]

128. Interesting

He's the only politician candidate I've heard who talks openly about the overthrow of Iranian democracy by the CIA in the 50's and the other regime changes that have led to stability. To me that shows he understands much better than the others where our problems have come from.

[reformist2]

36. How come we never see Hillary's supposedly huge number of supporters in real life???

I'm beginning to think they don't exist in such numbers as we are told. These polls are seriously wrong.

[litlbilly]

42. they simply dont exist.

[Cosmic Kitten]

43. They only come out for Salons and to vote

They don't mix with the unwashed mass of humanity

[Cha]

93. Keep living in denial.

[brooklynite]

132. I'm sure you weren't intending to be misleading using a picture of an event before the campaign....

Care to show us a crowd with Bernie Sanders in 2014?

[reformist2]

9. Don't worry, we'll package the best of the speech into sound bites for you.

[bravenak]

15. Leave the yelling parts out, please. Thx!

[arcane1]

13. Cool story n/t

[bravenak]

18. Like always. I'm cool like that, yo...

https://m.

[upaloopa]

19. I listened to part of it maybe 1/2 hour

He started with FDR then switched to today. Basically saying we need to do what FDR did. That's what we said in 2009.
I think all three candidates are saying similar things. I wanted to hear how he was going to get it done but I didn't hear that. Maybe he said it later.
FDR had a favorable Congress I think. He was challenged in the Supreme Court and lost. The NRA was unconstitutional I think.
He tried to pack the courts but lost.
He put troops in place of I union workers during a railroad strike.
The country was isolationist but FDR wasn't
Bernie would never be a new FDR.

[bravenak]

21. That was my impression too.

It was very FDR invoking but did not resonate with me.

[Skidmore]

27. Yep.

Trying to force a 21st century world into a 1930s model.

[misterhighwasted]

37. Oh man, It's like when I gained 12 lbs & had to fit my belly into the

..same sized pants cuz I was convinced things hadn't changed that much.

They did!

[EndElectoral]

22. I enjoyed it...hope you read the transcript.

[bravenak]

23. Do you have a copy of it yet?

I'd like to read it.

[RiverLover]

28. Here you go~

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/19/9762028/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism

[bravenak]

31. Thank you.

[NCTraveler]

34. I'm sure few people saw it.

More people will read the headlines. It's not a campaign move of someone trying to win.

[misterhighwasted]

41. I agree. He's laying out his future as a speaker.

Imo

[bravenak]

59. I had to hunt around to find it. Most do not care.

[Kentonio]

113. Presumably when JFK did exactly the same thing to address his Catholicism

That was also someone who wasn't trying to win, right?

[NCTraveler]

121. JFK didn't do the same thing.

The comparison is laughable at best.

[Kentonio]

122. He most certainly did.

At that time there was a very strong argument that a Catholic couldn't be president because they would be controlled by the pope. He gave a speech purposely to convince America that a label was no reason to prevent an American from entering the White House. The similarity is striking.

[riversedge]

38. Most was just his stump speach.

[bravenak]

57. Yep

[tk2kewl]

40. short attention spans are a big part of the problem with todays world

if people can't digest an idea in 140 characters it's too much work

[bravenak]

56. Then one must adapt.

[DianeK]

44. of course you do...

there is no point to this thread but to provoke another pointless conflict between those who suppoert Hillary and those who support Bernie

[Cosmic Kitten]

47. That's all they got... post poll numbers and aggitate for jury hides

Are you expecting more or better

Don't get your hopes up

[bravenak]

49. You seem very angry.

[DianeK]

79. funny

you seem terrified

[bravenak]

81. I overcome my fears, hence my moniker.

[lovemydog]

117. Wtf?

It's a member of DU sharing an opinion.

[Gothmog]

46. I started to skim part of the speech and saw nothing new in it

The polling shows that the negative beliefs as to the terms "socialism" and "socialist" are deeply held and will not be easily changed without an extensive education effort. One speech not carried by the national media is not going to accomplish anything.

[bravenak]

52. I plan on reading it right now.

Changes of magnitude take alot of time in this nation. I agree, I do not see this changing anything at all.

[giftedgirl77]

51. I think our elections are way too long in general.

The whole debacle is a joke & I'm sick of listening to my son bitch about HRC's commercial's on YouTube. But at least he knows who she is & that Trump is a racist douche. I ask him about BS he just calls him the cranky old guy.

[bravenak]

55. Me too. It seems interminable.

It makes some people money to keep things going so long, imo.

[giftedgirl77]

65. Shit, I don't talk the news organizations took a break

between 2014 & 2016. I really don't know why people discuss the debates like it's not a bunch of zookeepers just throwing exactly what the sharks below want to be fed. It's just another dumb reality show really.

One debate in both the primary in general, 15 min, each subject on c-span moderdated by the SCOTUS. Make election day a federal holiday where everyone has to vote but there is a D. None of the above box & call it a day.

There problem solved. It would save on cost & annoyance.

[bravenak]

68. Boom! That is a practical solution.

This shit is just a circus and the dems get to be the adults who keep the elephants from attacking the crowd. There will not be a revolution.

[Kentonio]

114. So is BLM just a waste of everyones time?

Because last I checked, that also required a revolution in the minds and hearts of America to change behaviors, laws and mindsets to create real positive change.

But should we believe that a revolution in racial equality is perfectly possible but a revolution in economic equality is just some naive pipe-dream? When did it become a bad thing to want to improve things?

[bravenak]

118. What does BLM have to do with my comment?

[Kentonio]

123. Because its a revolution you (quite rightly) believe in.

It just seems strange that you can believe in one equality movement but decry another as unrealistic. Why can't we have progress in all areas?

[karynnj]

53. As apposed to Hillary's near neocon foreign policy speech -- I opted to read it as that was less

annoying. I still wonder how she and several Republicans really think that a no fly zone to stop Assad from bombing people can be done. The fact is that he is NOT bombing the people on the Turkish border - his focus is on the rebels in places like Homs and elsewhere. Not to mention, the Russians are there flying as well. Do we really want to challenge Russian and Syrian planes flying in Syria? Not to mention --- that is NOT fighting ISIS. Just my opinion.

[bravenak]

54. Didn't watch hers either.

[JustAnotherGen]

62. I wasn't aware he was giving one

[bravenak]

64. I found out from DU. I don't think anybody else knows about it yet. Or if they ever will.

[JustAnotherGen]

67. Segami posted it in parts

Ill watch this weekend,

[bravenak]

69. Lol, that's where I saw it!!! I think I might just read it.

No yelling.

[MannyGoldstein]

72. LOL.

Cute.

[bravenak]

75. Thanks, learned from the best! You! Thank you.

[JustAnotherGen]

76. I feel so honored

.

[bravenak]

77. Me too!

[Piedras]

78. Brilliant speech by Bernie Sanders

I watched the entire speech and thought it was brilliant. Bernie thoughtfully expanded on his typical stump speech. It was much longer and filled in gaps like how help to pay for college for everyone, not just for public colleges and universities. I liked how he built up from Black Lives Matter to include Hispanics, immigration reform, and sheltering Syrian refugees. He had time to offer more solutions to problems. My support for Bernie Sanders is strengthened after watching the speech. He received enthusiastic applause many times during the speech from the students.

[bravenak]

80. I am glad you liked it. I will read the transcript.

[bvar22]

82. Yeah.

It was all full of boring "issues" and "policies" and stuff.
Who cares?
Yawn.
Nothing to see there.

[bravenak]

84. Umm hmmm

[NorthCarolina]

83. I totally understand, I feel that exact same way when I hear Hillary speak too.

I DID however watch Bernie's excellent speech, and am actually looking forward to watching it again. I like inspiring stuff.

[bravenak]

85. Enjoy!

[sadoldgirl]

86. He talked about people injecting racism

into the political arena, but then, I am sure,
that this would be of no interest to you.

[bravenak]

87. Then he needs to look harder. I can find threads that will knock his socks off and at the same time

sadden him. I found the whole anti blm thing to be a perfect example of what you describe.

[JonLeibowitz]

104. I am not sure he spends a great deal of time on DU...

...what with being a United States Senator, running for president, missing very few Senate votes, and introducing new legislation and amendments.

He might be a tad busy.

edit: if i was going to be really mean I'd say that the meme that he isn't really a democrat would mean he shouldn't even visit this board.

[bravenak]

107. I think he should look around the internet to see who is using his name and what they are saying

while having his name plastered on their posts. I did not just mean here. I have a couple of letters of harassment that say Go Bernie!, that might make him decide that there are reasons he is not getting traction. Twitter. Facebook. News comments sections. All the black publications comment sections. Various places. He should look. Be a leader. Be an executive. Keep everyone in line. Otherwise, I do not feel confident that he will look in the future if he won't look now.

[AgingAmerican]

90. Sorry he isn't corporate enough to keep your attention

When the exciting 'moderate' Hillary made a speech at Georgetown U, the hall was 3/4 empty.


They started lining up at 5 am for Bernie's 1 pm speech. America is sick and tired of corporate.

[Cha]

94. That's right you have nothing so try to insult her. but, it only makes you look bad.

[AgingAmerican]

95. Policy is so boring!

We want political gamesmanship instead!

[Cha]

97. Depends on who's talking about. It's the OP's opinion that BS is boring.. I agree.

[AgingAmerican]

98. How did Hillary's speech at Georgetown go?

4/5 empty. Apparently the exciting world of 'Moderate' (whatever that is) doesn't pack em in.

I highly doubt you have ever watched a whole Sanders speech.

[rjsquirrel]

115. When you're winning and there's no competition

supporters do other things with their time.

Please keep dreaming that HRC doesn't have massively more support than Bernie.

And that her supporters are all party elites.

She's winning. Deal with reality.

[bravenak]

101. I was bored. Sue me.

[Cha]

96. It was.. but, now it looks like she's finding out more about sanders and she's not liking it.

I can understand that because the more I learn the less I like him.

[bravenak]

100. And listening to the speeches makes me stay switched.

[Major Hogwash]

106. And you believed that??

[bravenak]

108. Wow. Proud?

[Cha]

126. Shake my head, brave.. evidently some of BS's fans can't fathom how someone could like him

and then be turned off so much by the way too many of them abused #BLM activists, that it would turn anyone against Bernie himself.

Well, I saw it happen. They're campaigning for Bernie in his name all over the net and they aren't doing him any favors. And, Surprise.. It's not really important if they believe it or not .. just more denial for them.

If someone is running for office.. they better make damn sure they have people representing them, who will make a good case for their candidate without attacking anyone.

[CBGLuthier]

102. Well ya know you need that heavy Wall Street banker money to afford good people to write

your policies, platforms, opinions and speeches for you.

[bravenak]

103. Ummm hmmm. And you need voters to win. Don't see that happening except for with Hillary.

[GeorgeGist]

110. Then why don't you move on ...

instead of posting anti-Sanders OPs?

[bravenak]

111. Why don't you go stop folks from posting anti Hillary ops?

[lovemydog]

116. I watched it here at DU and enjoyed it.

As you know I'm a nerd. Haven't watched Hillary's speech yet, have you?

And also, just thought I'd mention that you post in a conversational manner that I enjoy. It's like we're in a living room hanging out talking. The passive-aggressive or hostile posts toward you are bizarre & hilarious. I have no idea where some of these folks are coming from. Maybe they're upset or still in denial that their candidate has barely a five percent chance of winning the nomination. And that's if Hillary dies or drops out of the race. Even then, I think O'Malley would jump up in the polls. This disconnect is so strange to me. Ah well, dirt off your shoulder. I wish we had an emoji for that, lol.

[coyote]

120. Surprise surprise... one of our most prolific Clinton supporters

found Bernie's speech boring. Can't talk about the issues because you have nothing to stand on, but will smear Bernie instead.

[Cha]

124. Surprise Surprise.. not everyone thinks bernie is all that.

[JackInGreen]

127. Cool story

I can't understand why anyone believes anything you say, particularly about Bernie.

[NCTraveler]

133. Sanders showed the comfort level...

Of Rubio giving a SOTU response.

[NurseJackie]

135. He's not very polished and poised. He's abrupt and gruff. A sour disposition. A finger-wagger.

I'm completely aware that these are the characteristics that his followers find to be "endearing" about him, but it's a complete turn-off for me.

Such behavior on the world stage will work against him. Rather than cooperation from allies and adversaries, his confrontational "style" and demeanor is likely to be met with an equal amount of resistance. He's no diplomat.

[bigwillq]

134. I didn't watch

Was out all day living.

[restorefreedom]

136. i doubt that either speech yesterday changed minds

they both had something to say and said it. I actually read both speeches...definitely the way to go in my opinion

[SwampG8r]

137. Sure thing

I gotta say you are the best " former Sanders supporter turned to Hillary because.....supporters" of the lot.
Someone should trademark that

[LettuceSea]

138. Low attention spans vs high attention spans

To HRCs credit, she's going after the bigger voting pool.

Besides a few outliers, Bernie's supporters are far more verbose on this site compared to HRC supporters. Interesting pattern...