ISIS exists because of foreign policy like Hillary's

[jfern]

Last edited Tue Nov 17, 2015, 03:11 AM - Edit history (2)

When she voted for the Iraq war, Bush's own State Department said that Al Qaeda wasn't active in Iraq. But that didn't stop Hillary from claiming it was when she voted for Iraq War resolution. Well, now Iraq has a bigger problem than Al Qaeda. That problem is ISIS, which grew out of the chaos that happened after we invaded Iraq.

For more about how the Iraq war led to the development of ISIS, read this.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/11/-sp-isis-the-inside-story?CMP=fb_gu

But it's not just her Iraq war vote that is the problem.

She voted for Kyl-Lieberman to allow Bush to go to war with Iran. She supported arming the jihadists in Syria who became ISIS. Last month she said the number 1 priority in Iraq is to get rid of Assad. And since the Russian planes started flying in Syria to attack the jihadists, she said there should be a no fly zone where they are flying.

If you are against Iran, Assad, and Russia in Syria, then you are pro Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria. While Iran, Assad, and Russia all have their problems, they are the lesser of the evils there. Foreign policy like Hillary's is 100% to blame for ISIS.

[betterdemsonly]

1. Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley were too easy on her

Her foreign policy is her biggest weakness. She has been a disaster in the middle east and latin America. She is mad at Putin because he attacks isis.

[NanceGreggs]

2. Yeah, Hill really hit it out of the park ...

... at last night's debate, didn't she?

If she hadn't, there wouldn't be so many OPs like yours all over DU tonight!

[Scootaloo]

7. You were against the Iraq war before you were for it, I guess?

[NanceGreggs]

8. My post has nothing to do with ...

... the Iraq War. But you knew that.

It has to do with the fact that the more successful HRC's campaign, the more virulent the attacks on her become.

Don't blame me for merely noticing a very obvious pattern.

[Scootaloo]

9. But the OP you responded to DOES. That's why you're complaining.

Clinton has a record of neoconservative foreign policy. She has voted with it, she has endorsed it, advocated it, and when able enacted it. Neoconservativism carries quite a high human cost. You don't think that cost is important, evidently. or that it's a merit in the candidate's favor. But attempting to call the reality of her foreign policy positions "a virulent attack" is just utterly disconnected from reality.

[BeanMusical]

27. +1 Totally agree.

[840high]

11. Well then you just wasted space.

[stonecutter357]

24. How many people do you think Lockheed Martin have Killed?

[leftofcool]

14. + a million

[NanceGreggs]

16. So who needs polls ...

... when you've got DU?

You always know when HRC is on the rise - just count the OPs on DU that tell you why she shouldn't be ...

... but nonetheless IS!!!!!

[Ken Burch]

22. You know the OP is right, though. ISIS exists solely because of the Iraq War. n/t.

[leftynyc]

34. That's complete bullshit

If you believe that, you're not a serious person. I love how some DUers like to pretend that Sunni v Shia is something new, like terrorism didn't exist before 2001.

[sabrina 1]

46. Lol, that's why her campaign is blaming a tweeter for making her look bad?

She had a bad night, it could have been worse if O'Malley and Sanders were not the decent people they are.

[BeyondGeography]

3. You left out all the palling around with Lord Balfour

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. I blame the break up of the Ottoman Empire.

[restorefreedom]

37. you are not far off....

all this tribal infighting can be traced way back. and the modern me/asian countries came to be after the post ww1 partitioning of the OE

i know you put a smiley face, but that event is relevant

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. Don't forget Sykes-Picot

EOM

[restorefreedom]

40. the west has been messing with the east for a long time. nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

4. Pretty much.

I wouldn't say her foreign policy is 100% to blame, because nothing is ever 100%, but pretty much yeah. Those policy choices were so so bad. The US should have been really joined the diplomatic effort to stop Syria from spiraling out of control. Instead weapons were being poured in through the US client states. And it's like Hillary would laugh about something like that. I don't understand people that laugh at and disasters with millions of refugees. The policy over there has been totally screwy.

[Cheese Sandwich]

54. well said. nt

[Betty Karlson]

5. I don't know that Clinton should be blamed 100%

Guys by the name of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Chalabi, ... might have born an ever greater responsability.

That being said: her judgement is bad. The is once more shown to have been a follower, NOT a leader.

[Scootaloo]

6. Foreign policy LIKE hers. she's certainly not 100% to blame

But she's definitely an avid subscriber and contributor to that particular ideology.

[stillwaiting]

33. And if she becomes President there will be consequences for subscribing to that ideology.

She will finally have the Power, and that frightens me very much.

I wish I didn't feel this way about the Democratic front-runner, and yes, I'll vote for her if she wins the Primary.

It's hard to believe that after the past 4 decades in this country Democratic voters would choose someone like Hillary over someone like Bernie.

[shenmue]

10. She also eats people and worships Satan

[Hekate]

53. And crushes baby kittens beneath her boot. Is there no end to the evil?

[postatomic]

12. Your 'copy and paste'

Is right out of a ton of Right Wing trash sites.

Hillary's foreign policy is 100% to blame for ISIS. Really? If you truly believe this I feel sorry for you.

I don't understand how threads like this are allowed to flourish.

[BeanMusical]

30. "Hillary's foreign policy is 100% to blame for ISIS."

That's not what the OP said at all.

Foreign policy like Hillary's is 100% to blame for ISIS.

But you knew that.

[trueblue2007]

13. ISIS exists because of foreign policy like Darth CHENEY and MURDERER BUSH

[Blue_In_AK]

18. ISIS exists for many interrelated reasons,

but the Iraq mess sure as hell didn't help.

[99Forever]

35. Which Clinton gave a 19 minute speech in the Senate in support of and voted for.

Just sayin'.

[senz]

15. Her judgement is atrocious.

We can do better than Hillary.

[burrowowl]

17. True, so true!

[stonecutter357]

19. is this RWNJ?

[Divernan]

20. Congrats, jfern, your OP survived the alert

The posters attacking you attempt to portray your OP as holding Hillary totally responsible for ISIS, whereas you clearly point out, in your title, that ISIS exists BECAUSE OF FOREIGN POLICY LIKE HILLARY'S.

You point out HRC's position in support of a no-fly zone to block Russian planes - I heard a very nuanced and intelligent discussion of this on an NPR station recently, by U.S. experts, as to what an extremely risky move such a no-fly zone would be, i.e., likely to result in U.S./Russian conflict.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS
the more successful HRC's campaign, the more virulent the attacks on her become. === I AGREE, HILLARY DID NOT START THE IRAQ WAR, BUSH, CHENEY AND NEO=CONS. This is REPUBLICAN crap against the Democratic candidate for President Clinton, GOP crap.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Nov 15, 2015, 11:48 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Saying 'Hillary's foreign policy is 100% to blame for ISIS' is hysterical right wing bullshit.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I do not agree with the alerter that this reasoned, fact based critique of HRC's foreign policy is "REPUBLICAN crap".
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think the last sentence is hyperbole, as it wasn't really HER foreign policy that took us into Iraq, but her votes are her votes. My inclination is to leave posts that don't directly attack a fellow DU member, especially in this forum.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's too bad the truth hurts. And the truth is not a TOS there is a thread about the terrorists claiming that they are with ISIS precisely because the war in Iraq caused destabilization. Now it's a civil war and it is because of imperialistic policies.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think the post is 'okay'; in fact I think it is ugh! But I don't think it actively breaks rules.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[marym625]

25. notice whenever someone points out facts that show just how bad Hillary is,

Hillary supporters alert on them? They can't dispute facts, they can't find anything real to attack Bernie with, so they alert.

Wonder who could have sent this alert?

[BeanMusical]

29. "Wonder who could have sent this alert?"

the more successful HRC's campaign, the more virulent the attacks on her become.

This is interestingly very similar to what someone posted upthread. But I'm sure that it's just a coinkydink.

[marym625]

41. oh, it has to be a coinkydink.

Someone replying with the same wording and ignoring the message of the OP happens all the time.

[napi21]

21. I would have almost agreed with you until the attack in France.

France didn't invade any Muslim countries. They even generously accepted a lot of the refugees fleeing Syria for their lives.

I can understand why they would be upset with the US. We've been meddling in their business for a great any years. But why France?

Honestly, I think they're telling the truth when they say they want their own Country, they want to rule the arab world, and they are going to kill anyone who's not religiously like them. They're not THAT DIFFERENT than the radical religious right here in the US. If you support a woman's right to choose, work at or seek help from a planned parenthood facility, you should die! Although they haven't beheraded anyone yet (that I know of) they've murdered quite a few doctors and bombed quite a few clinics, and didn't care if any nurses or patients died in the process.

It's not Hillary's foreign policy or anyone elses. Isis is just more ambitious than the religious extremists in the US.

[TM99]

26. France didn't invade any Muslim countries, eh?

Since the middle of the 20th Century, France has had difficult and contentious relationships with several Middle Eastern and heavily Muslim countries from Algeria to Egypt and the Suez Crisis to no fly zones in Iraq to bombing campaigns against Libya, Syria, and now against ISIS in Iraq.

Yes indeed, that France is spotless when it comes to the Middle East.

What I find so fucking sad after this incident and this debate is the number of individuals on these boards who lack even a rudimentary historical knowledge base of the Middle East prior to 9/11.

[BeanMusical]

31. +1

[Juicy_Bellows]

47. The tide is high.

There are one heckuva lot of tigers without their stripes around.

[stonecutter357]

23. isis is very afraid of being killed by a woman.

Last edited Mon Nov 16, 2015, 05:55 AM - Edit history (1)

I hope the NSA is watching this OP's.

[BeanMusical]

32. Kick and R

[raouldukelives]

36. Best foreign policy corporations can demand.

Shareholders can finance and sales professionals can be bribed into selling.

I'm tired of being sold crap. Crap that I can point to and say "That's crap" at the onset which a salesperson will gently cradle under my nose until I either become accustomed to the smell, cry Uncle or both.

[restorefreedom]

39. the iraq war, huge fp error, as bernie has said

but i think there is a bigger issue. Until we stop the incestuous relationship and end the gluttonous feeding of $$$$ to the MIC, no matter who is president, we are going to end up in an endless war. look at Obama. He said he was gonna get us out of iraq and Afghanistan and where are we? We just bombed a hospital in Afghanistan…oh wait that was a "mistake" ....and now we are back in iraq and syria too with ground forces coming in.

this insanity has to stop. we have to make a committment to cut back on military spending. And then once they don't have their toys to play with, maybe we can get a handle on all this war.

[Wilms]

42. ^

[thesquanderer]

43. Kyl-Lieberman: another vote she and Sanders differed on

and again, a place where she showed her more hawkish inclinations.

Obama and Biden both opposed it as well.

[grahamhgreen]

44. WE CAN NOT AFFORD ANOTHER IRAQ WAR "mistake"

[jfern]

45. Added a link

[McCamy Taylor]

48. Excuse me? I am against both Russia in Syria and ISIS. What am I in your simplistic equation?

This OP makes no sense--except as propaganda allowing the author to put "Clinton" in a title with "ISIS" hoping that the anger we feel towards ISIS will rub off on Clinton.

[jfern]

49. If you want regime change in Syria like Hillary does, you are in favor in helping ISIS

[McCamy Taylor]

50. Is that what they call Anti-colonialism these days? "Regime change"?

I refuse to believe that our only choices in the Middle East are theocracy (Iran) and colonialism (Syria). Call me sentimental, but I still believe in democracy.

[BlueStateLib]

51. What additional legal authority did george bush gain from the 2002 iwr vote

Bush already had
1- The terms of the 1991 Gulf War resolution were still binding, desert storm hostilities ended with a cease fire and all the u.n. resolutions were still in effect.
2- Terms of the Sept. 14, 2001 congressional resolution approving military action against terrorism (S.J. Res 23)·

Only one person voted against war and that was Rep Barbara Lee. If the 2002 iwr was a vote for war, why was Iraq invaded by hans blix and the u.n. weapons inspectors?

[Hekate]

52. Bull. And you know it.

That is all.