2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders 'Out of His Element' in last night's debate.
It seemed that Sanders could sense he was out of his element, that hed been caught flat-footed, when he was asked about the terrorist attack in Paris. He condemned the atrocity and pledged to rid the world of ISIS with the help of the rest of the world, and immediately pivoted back to his safe zone: Super PACs! Millionaires and billionaires! Climate change!
His answer to the Paris question came out so disjointed it was almost a non-sequitur, and it did nothing tonight to rebut the notion that hes more of a left-wing protest candidate than a serious contender for Commander-in-Chief.
For her part, Clintons answers about foreign policy were not exactly stellar. Several served as a reminder why the breadth of her experienceher time in the White House, the Senate, and running the State Departmenthas tended to cut both ways.
Moderator John Dickerson asked Clinton a pointed question about whether her policy in Libya failed to take into account the lessons from the war in Iraqi.e., to answer the question, 'Do we have an answer for the day after?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/15/no-one-won-at-the-democratic-debate-but-sanders-and-o-malley-really-lost.html
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)I'm sure people will start believing them eventually.
Cha
(297,240 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Seem to believe that about negative Hillary posts. So much so that they retread the same ones over and over and over. At least the negative stuff about Bernie is fresh.
enid602
(8,620 posts)Sadly, I think his 'element' is right here on DU.
jfern
(5,204 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)And it was pretty hypocritical of him to stand on that stage and deride the bloated military spending and the MiC, but he supports the epitome of wasteful Pentagon spending: Lockheed Martin, Inc.'s failed and ultra-expensive F-35 program that's cost the American taxpayer already one trillion dollars. One trillion dollars!
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)devoid of political dealmaking has always astounded me. He will do and say what it takes to preserve his job in his chosen profession, like all the rest. Every single politician makes deals on behalf of their city/district/states and they rise on their success at doing so.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)He's pure. He's uncorrupted, and, even though he's been in politics for 30 years - making him a professional insider politician - he's somehow found that "sweet spot" that allows him to stay above the political fray, above all other bought-and-paid-for politicians (Lockheed Martin and Sandia, Inc., aside). Oh, and they also tell me he's definitely not a corporatist.
But that's not what his record tells me.
Sanders strengthens the smoke screen as he rails against the corporatist Democratic Party, the bloated Military Industrial Complex - promising to cut the military budget to fund, I don't know, whatever it is at that moment he wants to fund. He keenly omits, of course, his role in lobbying for corporate-giant Lockheed Martin's failed F-35 program for Burlington, Vermont, (Lockheed Martin, draws 82 percent of all revenue from taxpayers, and Lockheeds information systems department gets 95 percent of its money from taxpayers - is this corporate welfare?) costing the American taxpayer already one trillion dollars - and growing. Consequently, Lockheed Martin's F-35 is the epitome of Pentagon waste.
Since I didn't really know the man (aside from always seeming to rail against both Parties - and specifically, President Obama), I ignored the rhetoric and looked at his legislative career. I find it seriously wanting in many areas, but especially those areas important to me (MIC, immigration, gun safety laws, supporting our first minority president). I also discovered that he's not exactly anti-war. He isn't that much different than Hillary Clinton, actually, except without the clout in Congress - a Congress he'll need in order to get any of his ambitious domestic agenda through. Understanding this Congress, it means he won't be able to much, if anything, through.
I soon got the feeling that his railing against "millionaires and billionaires" could have more to do with envy that he's not one, just as his railing against President Obama for offering chained CPI in the grand bargain was more out of self-interest: the threat of losing money out of his social security check that amounts to $39,281 per year (3273.42 per month).
My conclusion is, he's in it for himself and his family. And although his policies would benefit others, as well, I get the distinct feeling he's only in it for personal reasons. He's a professional politician who never really held a real job outside of government, and he doesn't appear the least bit presidential to me. He just doesn't have the temperament since he has the tendency to march angrily away when he's questioned. Can you imagine him having to deal with foreign heads of state and not hearing what he wants to hear? Just imagine it for a few seconds.
Based on the facts above, and my personal opinion of the man, I cannot support him. I will, of course, vote for him in the G.E. should he become the Democratic Party nom. No matter my misgivings of the man, he's a thousand times better than any Republican. I just hope it doesn't come to that.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Cha
(297,240 posts)going to talk about Paris. So he knew it was coming. Why didn't he prepare?
Things change fast in the world.. you can't keep talking to your "base" about "economics" when a tragic crisis comes up.
Bernie needs to keep up.. get on the same damn page.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)their only answer is "beat up enough countries and we won't have no turrsts" or "it'll be 3--6 months max, and we'll get bouquets and candy"
Iraq, Libya, Syria--R or D, they REALLY thought the ultra-Salafists would just hand everything over and go back to hoeing: it's like watching Tojo--no, Tojo's granddaughter, who thought Hideki was just PEACHY and somehow manages to be creepier than her vivisecting war-criminal grandfather
and let's not even get into Clinton's steadfast support for the cartel putsch in Tegucigalpa: it's the same with Dawkins or Jeb, suddenly everyone's reading all their Tweets or speeches and realizes, "hey, wait just a cotton-pickin' minute--this person isn't the smart one! we've duped ourselves for nigh on two decades!"
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Sanders was out of his league. I guess he thought there would never be any questions on foreign policy.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)daybranch
(1,309 posts)but encapsulates the terrorism of today and explains why it will only increase as competition for resources increase due to climate change. As inequality increases, a situation that will become ever increasingly dire by climate change. Wars will multiply and terrorism will increase unless we do something about the deadly inequalities being created by climate change, a situation facilitated to increase the wealth of the rich.
Thank you Bernie for speaking the truth. Shame on you Hillary for spouting surface baloney, with no honest answers that might impugn your donors and their role in middle east conflict. Go Bernie-speak truth to power!
Maybe Hillary can tell them to cut it out.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)And even on that one note he is flat.
Number23
(24,544 posts)With that one sentence, I think we are seeing precisely why quite a few Democrats are "meh" as hell about all of the candidates.