Did you support Obama and VP Biden for president, despite Biden's vote for war?

[yardwork]

Among those stating that they can't support Hillary Clinton because of her vote, how many supported the Obama-Biden ticket despite Biden's exact same vote?

[Warren Stupidity]

1. I supported Obama over Clinton because of his

position on the Iraq War.

[yardwork]

3. Right, but his VP voted for war.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Generally I don't give a rats ass about the vp slot.

I'm sure you think your op is some clever sort of gotcha but it ain't.

[yardwork]

12. It's not a gotcha, it's a question.

People here are saying that they will never, ever vote for Hillary - even if she is the nominee -because of her vote in 2003.

Kerry and Biden also made the same vote. People here supported Kerry and voted for Obama-Biden. Obama wasn't even in the Senate at the time, so he couldn't vote.

Using this single vote as a poison pill against Hillary when the same people cheerfully supported other tickets tainted by The Vote raises.... Questions.

[jfern]

70. Biden voted against Kyl-Lieberman, so he's definitely less of a hawk

than Obama's 1st secretary of state.

[Gman]

2. The purists are not always pure

Only when it's a convenient way to crucify themselves on the cross of their "principles".

[napi21]

4. YES I DID! I don't like the yes votes by anyone, but I also realize

that AT THE TIME, MOST PEOPLE, INCLUDING CONGRESS CRITTERS, WANTED RETALIATION FOR 911, AND NO PAST PRESIDENT HAD EVER LIED JUST TO GO TO WAR.

I don't hold that vote against anyone, especially any Dems who hate war but still believe in revenge on the terrorists.

[Gman]

60. You're very wise

And understand.

[think]

5. Obama was vehemently against the Iraq war. And what was the alternative? John McCain

Remember?

[yardwork]

15. Of course I remember.

[Autumn]

7. 2004 the alternative was Bush, 2008 the alternative was MccCain.

What's your point?

[MoonRiver]

8. I think you just made his point.

I don't like her IWV any more than Biden's or Kerry's, but I supported and voted for Kerry. But for some it's DIFFERENT with Hillary's vote. And the guys in the clown car this time are a whole lot scarier, imo, than McCain.

[peacebird]

10. Fortunately this time we have the option to vote for the one person who DID NOT vote for IWR

And that is exactly what I will do! #FeelTheBern

[yardwork]

13. I'm talking about the General Election.

[peacebird]

61. So am I

[yardwork]

14. Thanks.

I'm a her.

[MoonRiver]

17. Sorry, I'm usually not that dense.

[yardwork]

18. No problem, nobody can tell!

I really appreciate your post.

[MoonRiver]

25. Your post made perfect sense. It's a point that needs to be made, a lot.

Thank you for putting it out there!

[Autumn]

19. His point is support. I didn't support Kerry or Biden when they ran.

For many, the vote for me because the guys in the clown car is scary tactic just doesn't do it anymore. We need to get the young involved and that trick doesn't work on them.

[yardwork]

27. You voted against Kerry and Obama in the general elections?

[Autumn]

52. Support and voted for are not the same. I did not support Biden or Kerry.

I would have voted for the devil himself to get rid of Bush in 2004. Obama and Biden occupied the same bubble on my ballot.

[NorthCarolina]

37. Because we don't have to accept the lesser of two evils this time.

This election cycle there is Bernie Sanders; the type of candidate many were hoping beyond all hope that Obama would turn out to be back in 08. Unfortunately many of us were disappointed post election when it became apparent that much of his populist rhetoric had been just that, rhetoric for the campaign.

Why keep repeating the same mistakes over, and over, and over. I'm done with that loser cycle...I'm voting for the real deal this time...Bernie has my vote.

[yardwork]

42. My OP is in reference to the GE.

[giftedgirl77]

9. Yes, & I was in Iraq when I cast my vote in 07 &

Afghanistan in 11. I have no problem deploying to Afghanistan.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Thank you for your service...

And I proudly voted for Kerry-Edwards* in 04, both of whom voted for the IWR and proudly voted for Obama-Biden in 08 and 012, and that ticket had one IWR supporter.






*I wasn't particularly proud of John Edwards' hanky panky but we learned about it much later.

[giftedgirl77]

21. It is what it is, I have huge issues with the pretenses for invading

Iraq but that will never be a deciding factor for me casting my vote. I have friends that are native to Iraq, Pakistan, & Afghanistan & they don't express the views ppl on here do towards our invasion. If I'm going to take any one's opinions on the invasion of a country it's going to be the ppl directly effected by it which would be them, the ppl I dealt with on the ground, me, & my battles. Not a bunch of keyboard warriors.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. I have friends that went over...

I have one friend who fought in the Hell that was Fallujah. He is now a heavy machinery operator. He misses the action. I could never be a warrior.

[artislife]

11. In the Primaries, it was between one who did and one who didn't.

In the GE it was still the same. The lead name on the ticket had not voted for the war.

[yardwork]

20. Did you support Kerry in 2004?

[artislife]

29. I was young and did as the party told me to, so yes

Besides, he was swift boated by a man who flew over Texas during war time.



Now, I have a choice again not to vote for someone who voted for that war and not to toe the line of the party.

It's a win, win.




PS. How much further back in history were you willing to go? Sounds like the argument republicans have when they say Lincoln was one of them.
PPS. My vote for Kerry didn't have the devastating effects on the thousands upon thousands of lives like H.

[BooScout]

22. Excellent point!

[djean111]

24. I don't vote for the VP.

Obama was the vastly better choice than McCain and Palin. And Mitt and Ryan. The VP slot was actually not relevant.

[yardwork]

26. Did you vote for Kerry in 2004?

[djean111]

31. Do you really think that Hillary's enthusiastic shilling and vote for war in Iraq is the ONLY

reason I do not support her? How can you support someone who told that bald-faced lie about sniper fire in Bosnia? Why would you believe a word she says now?

[yardwork]

33. Can you answer the question?

[djean111]

43. The question is just a meaningless try at a gotcha.

Who I voted for in 2004 has nothing to do with anything.

[Persondem]

28. Or Kerry-Edwards in 2004. That was a two-fer!! K & R nt.

[yardwork]

30. Yes, I'm curious to know if all these folks voted against the Democratic nominees.

All these people here on DU who state that they will never, ever vote for Hillary because of her vote in 2003. The same vote made by Kerry, Edwards, and Biden. And a vote that Obama was unable to cast one way or the other, because he was not yet in the Senate.

[djean111]

35. We are not talking about the GE, are we, now? We are talking about who we support in the primaries.

So your question is not only not a gotcha, but irrelevant. And, as I have stated elsewhere, the Iraq War vote is certainly not the only reason people support someone other than Hillary.

[yardwork]

36. I'm clearly talking about the GE in my OP.

VPs aren't chosen until after the primaries.

[djean111]

38. Then why bother bringing this up? No one has the nomination yet. n/t

[yardwork]

40. I'm bringing it up because of the number of posts now on DU

That state that they will never, ever support Hillary because of her vote.

[djean111]

45. Then you really just need to wait and see what happens in the GE if Hillary is the nominee. n/t

[Persondem]

51. Dean and Clark were available as non-IWR voting options in the 2004 primary

Dean was in fact the front runner early on. Kerry and Edwards both raced to the front after Dean's "moment". Combined they got perhaps 1% of the negative garbage that has been hurled at Clinton over their IWR votes.

[djean111]

55. Maybe we now see the true cost of those votes. And - Hillary SHILLED for that war. She did not

just vote - she shilled for it, she pushed for it.

[Persondem]

66. Mental yoga. That's quite a stretch that IWR = bombs in Paris.

If if if if if if if if ..... Well IF Clinton's advice on arming Syrian rebels had been followed when it was first offered, ISIS might never have gotten a foothold in Syria, never have gained notoriety and so never have instigated the attacks in Paris.

And the hypocrisy of those people who give Clinton shit over the IWR vote who voted for Kerry or Edwards in the 2004 primary is just astounding. I noticed you ducked that issue. Hmmmm., wonder why......

[yardwork]

69. I don't recall Hillary pushing for the war. I really don't.

[djean111]

71. Oh please.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/12/435624/-

If you are trying to sell Hillary as not a hawk, you are in the wrong place.

[djean111]

72. If you don't think that there are other actual negatives against Hillary,

like TPP, fracking, cluster bombs, etc., then I guess you need to define what you call "garbage". I you truly believe that you can somehow neutralize the negatives on issues that people have against Hillary, you are doomed to failure.

Another thing - we all have access to a lot more information now. A LOT more information. And, again, the middle east has gotten worse and worse. We are not starting at square one. That constantly being in the public's eye thing is a double-edged sword.

And if you feel that people are not supporting Hillary merely because she is a woman, and not because of issues, then you marginalize everything.

[Persondem]

74. TPP is a perfect example ... how is that a negative on Clinton?

1st You have to prove that TPP is a bad thing. Now that the text has been released you should have no trouble citing specific passages that show it to be more bad than good. Once you do that we can discuss the next stage.

The ME has been messed up ever since the European powers carved it up post WW1. None of what's wrong with the ME can be lain at Clinton's feet.

The US had it's best chance for real immigration reform in 2007 and guess whose finger prints are all over the knife that killed it? Your boy Bernie's. The same guy who voted against the Brady bill something like 5 times. Putting all of the gun deaths since then on Sanders makes as much sense as blaming the ME mess on Clinton. Her advice was not followed on Syria so that's not on her. She got Iran to negotiate and so PREVENTED a war. Isn't that what you Sander's supporters are all goose bumpy over ... Sanders voting NO on war?

Go ahead, have your say, but it won't matter a bit. Of course your mind is made up too. Even up.

[DURHAM D]

32. Come on yardie...

you know this is all about the different body parts.

[yardwork]

34. It sure is, ain't it?

Heh.

[DURHAM D]

50. Yep.

Consciousness raising isn't possible when one has a direct interest in not having their consciousness raised. Simple

[Warren Stupidity]

67. right of course.

This is the primary and there are choices that are not compromised by neocon imperialism. Gender? Really?

[99Forever]

39. Translation:

If you held your nose and voted for that warmonger, you MUST hold your nose and vote for THIS warmonger, cuz you can't possibly have a conscience about what putting another warmonger in office will end up causing.

Now, shut the hell up and vote for Hillary, cuz it's her gawddamn turn.

[yardwork]

41. Touchy.

[99Forever]

49. Yes I am.

Mass murdering scumbags and their apologists do that to me.

[djean111]

44. Nailed it. n/t

[John Poet]

68. +1,000

[Bluenorthwest]

46. 04, I voted against Bush. 08 Primary, both candidates were opposed to LGBT equality, so neither

had my actual support. Obama got my primary vote because of the two anti equality candidates left standing, he had not voted for invasion nor the Patriot Act, he claimed to support a Public Option and oppose mandates and also because the Clinton campaign, in addition to the anti gay aspects also had some hints of racism that I just did not care for. So of the two candidates who said their God was against my family Obama got the Primary vote for being less racist and more peace loving.

I really value being able to support Bernie, a candidate who has never ever opposed my equality or that of anyone else, who has never once stated that his God holds low opinions of LGBT. A candidate who has never claimed that his own relationship is superior to others.
It really, really bothers me that Clinton supporters can't accept that.

[yardwork]

48. I don't have a strong opinion either way for the primary.

I admire Bernie and totally understand why people support him. I support him. I may even vote for him in my state's primary.

But if Hillary wins the nomination, I will vote for her, even though I was vehemently opposed to both wars.

There are a lot of posts on DU stating that they will never ever vote for Hillary, even if she wins the nomination, because of her vote in 2003.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. Well I see many Hillary supporters who say they won't vote for Bernie. They also sneer at LGBT

and have for years. DU Hillary supporters spend much, much time in negative characterization of Bernie and his supporters. I really loathe that because it is bullying.
Also, there are many, many posters on DU who now adore Hillary who in 08 spent much, much time in negative characterizations of Hillary and her supporters. Now they do the same to Bernie. What does that say about those posters? Forget the candidates. Are those posters trustworthy? Not in my opinion, no.

[MoonRiver]

62. I have not seen ONE Hillary supporter say s/he wouldn't vote for Bernie in the GE,

if he were to win the Dem nomination. Maybe you are talking about the primary.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. Can't help what you won't see or don't see, MoonRiver. It's a fact, as is the rest of what I said

which you have not bothered to comment on.
Here is my all time favorite 'won't vote for Bernie' post:
""I'm not that keen on voting anyone - at any level - back in that is currently wherever they are at. One exception - I'm working with a few (mostly republicans) to get our liquor laws changed. They are from 1949 - it's time to change things. Bring my preoperty taxes down and lets get some wine and cigar bars on our main street.

That said - point blank - I don't believe in Sanders platform or approach and I won't vote for him.

I simply won't."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251700805

Claims to be an O'Malley supporter. But Martin raised some real estate taxes when he was in office so I don' think the person is favoring Martin at all, much less due to policy.

That was the worst, but there are many, many more.

Now would you like to discuss the high level of homophobia over the years from the current 'Hillary supporters'? Lots of links there too. I think one of the worst is finally flagged for review, openly antisemitic and anti gay posts, that one blamed LGBT for the 2014 election losses 'the brazenness with which they flaunted their rights cost us and will continue to do so'.
Want a link?

[MoonRiver]

73. Where in that link did the poster say s/he won't vote for the nominee, whomever it is?

I also don't know who you are quoting.

[yardwork]

65. If I see a post saying they wo t vote for Bernie in the General, I'll call it out.

Feel free to link one here. I haven't seen any.

[Hydra]

47. I wasn't enthusiastic about either of them

While both of them have good points, they both are servants of the system. Kerry falls in the same category. We've seen how this work.

So no, I didn't support any of them. Does not mean I did not or will not vote for them in the GE. If you don't vote, you have no room to complain unless you were cut from the voting rolls.

[MineralMan]

53. I did. And enthusiastically.

9/11 caused many people to vote that way. It was a mistake caused by the horror of that day and a desire to fix it. The Bush administrations lies also played a major role.

[Sheepshank]

54. And those same styled anti Iraq crowd therefore Anti Hillary crowd

Had been pressing and giving 100% love and support to Biden.

The hypocrisy is very thick.

[Bluenorthwest]

64. So are you the 'pro Iraq war' crowd? Can you prove your assertion that Biden was supported by

the 'anti Iraq crowd'? I sure as hell did not want DOMA Joe to run.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. No.

[yardwork]

58. You voted against the Democratic nominee for president?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. Actually, I voted against his policies and for Jill Stein.