2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders' Superb Civil Rights Record the REASON for the Rovian Smears We are Seeing.
This Weeks Corporate Funded Talking Point? Bernie Wasn't Bernie. The arrest record, the CORE leadership. Sssshhhh, they don't want you to KNOW about Bernie's excellent record on Civil Rights AGAIN when it COUNTED.
Does that mean they are beginning to really worry that people ARE finding out about his history regarding Civil Rights?
There really is no doubt about Sanders Civil Rights Record, where he was, what he was involved in during the Civil Rights Era.
So seeing the Rovian attempts to obliterate that history SHOWS US how FEARFUL his enemies are that the PEOPLE will learn about it, as they ARE and maybe wonder: What was Hillary DOING at that same time?
The LATEST TALKING POINT?
You've seen it, a few times now today. Frankly I am encouraged to see the EFFORT and MONEY going into the smear campaign to try to stop Bernie's momentum. You should be too. Because NOTHING says Bernie is WINNING like his enemies desperately turning out talking point after talking point and failing with every single one so far.
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Bernie Sanders a member of the steering committee, stands next to George Beadle, University of Chicago president, who is speaking at a Committee On Racial Equality meeting on housing sit-ins. 1962.
Now the real question regarding that era when two of our Dem Candidates were around. We KNOW what Bernie was doing.
But where was Hillary?
I am hearing that question a lot lately!
Go Bernie! Best Civil Rights Record of almost anyone, not just in THIS campaign, but in Congress!
.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Sam Frizell @Sam_Frizell 10:49 AM ET
At a televised Democratic candidate forum Friday, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow showed Bernie Sanders a black-and-white photo of man with his face turned away from the camera speaking before a civil rights protest. This is you in 1962, Maddow said to the Vermont senator.
Who is that handsome young guy with the dark hair? joked Sanders. The audience laughed.
There was just one problem: Four University of Chicago alumni who went to school with Sanders tell TIME they believe that the dramatic photo of Sanders, which his campaign has featured on its website and in a promotional video, is not in fact a photograph of Sanders. An archivist at the University of Chicago agreed in January that Sanders was not the speaker in the photo, though the schools official decision on the mans identity is still pending.
The alumni say the man in the photo is actually Bruce Rappaport, a fellow student activist with a similar haircut, glasses and stature, who died in 2006. I can certainly recognize it as Bruce Rappaport, partly because of the curvature of his spine, and I see that tall thin look from the side, said Richard Schmitt, who was in the class of 1966 and lived near Rappaport in a campus dorm. When I saw it, I said, Thats Bruce Rappaport.
Read more:
http://time.com/4108379/bernie-sanders-photo-civil-rights/?xid=tcoshare
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)arrested for protesting Segretated Housing? I'm doing a lot of research on HER Civil Rights era history now, having done it on Bernie.
Got anything to show where she was, what she was doing to help me with that research? So far all I could find was a speech at some college.
I lover the attempt to Swift Boat a good Democratic Candidate, but it won't work this time, as there is an ARMY, hundreds of thousands of them ready to sink that boat and then USE it against those who are trying it.
If I were a Hillary supporter I would stick to the issues..
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Bernie is winning all 50 states, remember?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Accusing another DUer of stalking is out of line. Sabrina1 has nothing to back up her ludicrous claim, stop this stuff.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Nov 12, 2015, 05:24 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Does the alerter not think that stalking is creepy? I think stalking is creepy. Sabrina1 doesn't say CaliDem is stalking her. Me thinks someone might be protesting too much.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the person who alerted. With nothing to back it up, Sabrina is being childish and making false accusations.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Maybe my mind has just blocked it out.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I truly don't remember anyone here making such an outlandish statement about Sanders winning fifty states. Someone would lose credibility if they had done so. Who knows. I might have even made a mocking post in such a thread. If said poster is correct would you share the link with me. Seems to be something you and the other poster are aware of, I'm not. If you and the other poster have a history of stalking one and other I'm not aware of it either.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It's a really simple answer. Is the other poster stalking you? I don't find it Rovian to call out Hillary on her Bosnia story. I don't think it is Rovian here either. I actually think the whole premise is pretty dense. But back to YOUR original reply to me. Who is stalking you? You have made it twice now. I think Sanders at one point was an activist with a positive influence on civil rights. He is back to being an activist again and I think it's absolutely great. Not sure what that has to do with stalking but you brought it up. Who?
I don't think anyone would actually claim he would win fifty states. I simply asked for a link. Very common around here. Do you have the link?
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)If you go back and look, it was not Sabrina that said "Bernie is winning all 50 states". It was Cali_Democrat. And it was said obviously in a sarcastic back-handed swipe to taunt Sanders supporters. Why are you demanding Sabrina provide proof of someone else's weak attempt at ridicule?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)That is very important and is an issue for the administrators and the site as a whole. If you are now foolishly saying I am stalking her, you could prove it amazingly easily. Just pull up her last ten ops and see how many I replied to. It was Sabrina1's claim that she is being stalked. No one else. Additionally, that is a pretty low bar for taunting you have there.
"Sabrina provide proof of someone else's weak attempt at ridicule? "
I am asking her to back up her serious claim of stalking. I agree with you, no one here is foolish enough to promote Sanders is going to win all fifty states in a serious manner. But the stalking claim really is serious. You didn't make the claim, Sabrina1 did.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)capable of handling my own affairs, and have done so for more than a decade with issues like this. Thanks for the concern though, but I will deal with it myself, I'm kind of independent that way!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I'm going to assume it was just a heat of the moment thing for you.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Call it phase one of dealing with internet stalking. .
As I said, it's not your concern and I'm handling it just fine right now.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I wouldn't be asking who as you have now made the claim multiple times. Your claim. Not mine. Good luck.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)that would be appreciated!
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)almost by definition, and certainly are so if you define it connotatively. They usually self-ID with non-topical garbage intended solely to aggravate/annoy their obvious betters, and to convince themselves and their cohorts that they really "showed them!" despite leaving that responded to completely unaddressed and unrebutted.
I would bet every high profile poster here has a small collection of ankle-biters/stalkers who conduct themselves in that way.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)I use to have plenty of the rightwinger kind when I posted on mixed boards.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Though at that time never thought it would come in handy on a Dem forum!
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)mostly the infamous Ballot Box board. In it's waning days, there was next to no moderation whatsoever, so I'm sure you can imagine...
I was hoping to leave all that behind sabrina, but one of the first things I noticed when I started participating here before the 2012 election, was the many similarities in tactics used by the DLC/3rdWay types and their rightwing cousins. Harrassing of the ankle-biting kind figured prominently in their efforts to silence their more/most vociferous opposition.
have a good night
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)fine to threaten, hijack with viruses, or do whatever possible to silence the 'left'. I learned how to get around all their tricks and didn't just survive, but learned a lot about 'talking points' and tactics which has become very useful. Many of us Dems have noted the similarity between those right wing tactics and the third way. I was watching a conversation a few years where Third Way Dems put forward the idea of 'emulating Rove' who they claimed, knew 'how to win'. It was revealing to say the least. I thought we were supposed to fight dirty political tricksters, not become them.
Anyhow, thanks for your comments, I'm not sorry I had those experiences, it makes it much harder for the would be 'ankle biters' to gain any traction. I'm sure you learned a lot also!
Have a great evening!
bvar22
(39,909 posts)YOU are the one who attributed that stupid post to her instead of where it belonged.
Maybe a "heat of the moment" thing for YOU?
Sabrina has crossed no boundaries.
YOU have, and owe her an apology and retraction.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to go unnoticed. I suppose they THINK people are not noticing but that's not my problem. I will call them out each time they appear in my threads with their 'clever' little games. If they don't like it, they have the option to stop. Either way suits me fine!
Thanks bvar, I appreciate your observations as I do all the others since this particular stalking tactic began.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)A claim that she made. No one else. Apologize? Dear Lord. What did I do that was heat of the moment. I asked a poster to back up their claim about someone saying Sanders was going to win fifty states. That poster has not been able to back it up. Sabrina1 has made multiple comments about being stalked without backing it up. Apologize. Love it.
Innuendo, insinuation, and no facts. If the op wants to talk Rovian they should stop these things.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Bernie's excellent Civil Rights Record and the attempt by Hillary's Campaign to use old Rovian Tactics, see the Swift Boaters, to try to distort the record.
Do you have anything to contribute to the thread topic? I assure you, I am more than capable of handling stalking situations as I've told you. You seem inordinately concerned about this, even after I have assured you that it is being handled expertly.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)..that Sanders can win all 50 states. When you know full well that no such link can exist, nor did Sabrina ever claim that. So it was a piling on of the original attempt at ridicule.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The poster I asked to back up their claim is a Hillary supporter.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)threads, but in fact, they tend to help, inadvertently of course. I use such comments to keep good threads kicked AND to point out things that 'make DU suck'!
I appreciate your comments LiberalLovinLug!
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)if they had made the 50 State claim?
Oh never mind...here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251650529
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)glad you agree.
Regarding the 50 winning states statement. A little research does go a long way. You are so very, very frequently the one asking for people to offer a link to your previous statements, especially the ones you'd like to deny. That one was particularly easy to find and verify for the person I was responding to.
Not sure why decided to jump in and respond , but that's ok. I get that you calling others a stalker while you participate in the very same activity doesn't occur to you to be hypicritical.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)They come here to run you around in circles and change the subject...make it about anything but the embarrassing subject of what Hillary was and probably still is...a Goldwater Girl.
George II
(67,782 posts)....you're considered a "stalker"!
I don't know how many of my posts have been pulled up from months ago, linked, and dissected, but the last think I would consider that is "stalking".
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Go to other sites and coordinate attacks on duers with the intent to cause hides and silence them?
And then return to that other site.to high five and brag.
Is that stalking?
polly7
(20,582 posts)(Don't think you're gonna get an answer on that though, sorry.)
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)I referred to it in a Bernie supporters are so mean thread
Sadly I was mocked for objecting to such demented and horrible actions
Classy bunch over at camp weathervane
polly7
(20,582 posts)And the elephant just sat back on my heart ....... I was having sort of a good morning! No worries though, I know well who they are and what they stand for.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Not my intention
I just had my dad pass. You have all my heart .
So sorry both for the loss and for making you hurt again.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I'm so sorry about your dad. Peace and strength to you, and may he R.I.P.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Some things are never gonna be OK
polly7
(20,582 posts)Time helps give you the tools to deal with it better ... it took me years before I was even able to take comfort in the good memories. I felt guilty for even trying, like I was accepting him being gone and I shouldn't do that. I know that sounds strange, but the pain is, always, right there. Please take all the comfort you can right now from people who care - it's so hard, again ... I'm so sorry.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)After that, nothing said by those who participated in that horrible thread is credible.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)creepy, hang in there sabrina 1 you have a strong soul
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Oh, and "Huey Freeman" would never support HRC. He'd probably write-in Ta-Nehisi Coates(assuming Huey managed to mke them let him vote at age eight).
George II
(67,782 posts)High school.
Next?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)School to my knowledge. So what is her record from that era? People are asking, more and more of them. Some have switched from Hillary to Sanders BECAUSE of this issue. So it would benefit her supporters to promote HER Civil Rights Era activities rather than TRY to Swift Boat someone whose record is unimpeachable. Why don't they do that?
George II
(67,782 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to Bernie's well known record? And btw, her campaign's attempt to Swift Boat Bernie has only caused people to ASK that question Which they have now made a legitimate question. So, again, what is her history during that most important era?
George II
(67,782 posts)What did she do?
She was just a teenager (14 years old in 1962, 17 year old in 1965), but even at that young age, among other things:
On Civil Rights: 1962: met MLK Jr. preaching a sermon in Chicago
In 1962, Don Jones, the youth minister at Hillarys church took Hillary and her class to hear a speech by Martin Luther King Jr. The civil rights pioneer preached a sermon titled Sleeping Through the Revolution, and the experience gave Jones the opportunity to leave another indelible mark on his pupils. I wanted them to become aware of the social revolution that was taking place. It was an opportunity for them to meet a great person. Park Ridge was sleeping through the greatest social revolutio this country has ever had.
In his speech, Dr. King said too many Americans were like Rip Van Winkle, snoozing through the changes happening around them.
That night was one Hillary would never forget, particularly because of the moment after the speech, when Jones shocked the teen and her comrades by arranging to have them briefly meet with King. Later in life, Hillary would remark that these experiences opened her eyes as a teenager to other people and the way they live which affected me.
Source: God and Hillary Clinton, by Paul Kengor
On Civil Rights: 1965: brought black classmates to all-white church
In 1965, Hillary invited a black classmate to attend church services with her at the Methodist church, a move that raised eyebrows. Don Jones later recalled that the Park Ridge Methodist folks were bothered because Hillary seemed to make the move not out of goodwill but simply to shock a lily-white church. She told Jones she was genuinely interested in her minority classmates, and today, schoolmates like Karen Williamson speak warmly of Hillary: She was a friend. As a black woman going to Wellesley at the time friends were very welcome. All the black students felt we had a close friendship in Hillary. They also sensed something more: A lot of us thought Hillary would be the first woman president, said Williamson later.
It was Martin Luther King Jr.s assassination that produced one of the greatest shifts. The trauma seemed to catalyze Hillarys politics. Nevertheless, her classmates insist she was never a radical. Hillary was more willing to work within the system to change things.
Source: God and Hillary Clinton, by Paul Kengor
dogman
(6,073 posts)He marched with MLK down our main streets, about 40 miles from where she lived at that time. I really wouldn't have expected a Goldwater Girl to have marched with them. I'm glad she is drifting to a more liberal place in life. She still has a long way to go, but I'll grant that she is still better than any Repub running.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)she likely reflected the principles and attitude of Barry Goldwater himself. That would not be the best position to have been in during the civil rights years. And that may be why you don't hear any civil rights support or activities for Hill.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 12, 2015, 04:56 PM - Edit history (1)
not touting his record, it is simply part of his history. But then Hillary's Campaign decided to try to keep it from AAs by attacking him, Rovian style, on what really is one of his strengths they made HER history an issue also.
So since they raised it, we need to get her record, no lies, nothing like what they are trying to do, just the facts and put it out there and compare it to Bernie's.
Voters have a right to see this now, and let them try to cry about it, they raised it by attempt to lie about Sanders, thinking there would not be consequences to those lies?
This is not the Bush era when the right tried to do this to Kerry.
This is the era of the powerful Social Media where lies die a quick death especially when they are as blatant as this.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...they opened the door, now let the cross examination begin!
Wish I could recommend this post.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)same era, so that people can judge for themselves, and not allow these Corporate Funded smear campaigns to take control over the TRUTH, as they did with Kerry.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)But then Hillary's Campaign decided to try to keep it from AAs by attacking him...
Do you have any evidence to back that statement up.
Damn, Hillary really is a superwoman or something.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)they are the backdoor for massive amounts of money allowed by Citizens United to continue to flow into our electoral system and as a man who walks the walk, he doesn't not approve of them since he opposes CU.
They bypass the election law limits on donations and donors and what they give to a candidate's super pac, are allowed to be hidden from the public.
Every Democratic candidate who claims to oppose CU should do as Bernie has done, reject them.
Hillary's campaign however has not only NOT rejected them, her campaign is coordinating with David Brock's Hillary Super Pac.
And since you asked for 'evidence' that Bernie is being targeted by Hillary's campaign, Brock was exposed trying to PLANT smears agaiinst Sanders in the Media. Thankfully there are a few actual journalists left who received his 'memo' who did not agree that he had the right to remain anonymous.
Hillary has not condemned that vile sneaky attempt to smear Sanders, so I assume it's okay with her.
Too bad because it so disgusted people that tens of thousands of them donated small amounts of money to Bernie's campaign after the exposure.
He made over one million dollars thanks to Brock's little scheme, in 24 hours. That should demonstrate how sick and tired people are of the money in politics and the kind of people it attracts into our system of elections.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I was 14 when I participated in my first Civil Rights Demonstration and March.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Movement. Interesting that this is being used as an excuse for Hillary.
Hillary was a Goldwater Girl while other teenagers were involved in the Civil Rights Movement. That is a fact.
Now if they want to continue to try to Swift Boat Sanders on THIS issue, they better be prepared to have the TRUTH told about their candidate and stop whining about it.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)It wasn't difficult to decide that ALL people deserve Equal Opportunity and Equal Protection.
One caveat....I was raised in New Orleans, and while NO is the home of some hardcore racists,
it is also one of the most culturally blended and tolerant cities in the US....or used to be before Katrina.
FloridaBlues
(4,008 posts)Those statements didn'tcome from Hillary campaign .
Maybe Bernie thought that was him I mean 55yrs ago a long time to recall a meeting.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Maybe her campaign should have left Bernie's excellent record alone, because what it did, for me actually, was to start wondering 'what was Hillary doing' as soon as they started trying to destroy his record.
I think frankly since her campaign continues along this nasty Swift Boat route, it's time to get together a thorough history of both candidates at that time and disseminate it widely so that people can decide for themselves, without the Swift Boating, paid for by Corporate dollars.
It wasn't a good idea for her campaign. There's an old saying that unless you yourself are perfect, don't start pointing fingers especially when what you're doing is intended to deceive. You will find a whole lot of fingers pointing right back at you.
Her record from that time isn't very impressive. If I were advising her campaign, which I'm not, I would suggest they not draw attention to Bernie's, which is excellent, even in an effort to distort it, which no Dem should be doing anyhow, because the obvious response will be and has been 'What was Hillary doing back then'? Now if she had been out there, as he was, joining in the protests, getting arrested etc, THEN she could have raised it.
But that wasn't the case.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)era and I'll tell you what she was doing, she was a Goldwater Girl. I can assure you Bernie wasn't a Goldwater anything when he was 14.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)BTW the civil rights movement was from 1955 to 1968.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)--was in high school. I sure saw the need, though. I went to a National Science Foundation summer camp in 1963 held at Southern Illinois University. My roommate took an anthropology course that involved going on digs. After one of them, they all stopped at a hamburger stand to get something to drink after digging in high heat and humidity. The owner would not serve the two black students in the group, so the rest of them all walked out in solidarity. I thought it was great, but no one had any clue about what to do next. I went back to a Catholic high school with only two African American students, and no other minorities of any kind. When I was in college, a number of older students were involved in voter registration drives, and they collected money and clothing. Finally a chance to do something.
It was only later that someone told me that Illinois was actually three states--1/3 New York, 1/3 Iowa and 1/3 Mississippi. I was from the Iowa part and was seriously shocked to find out about the Mississippi part.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)did. I know that family environment influences young people, but some seem to be able to overcome even that when an issue is about the rights of other human beings.
I think that since the Hillary campaign has been making an issue of Bernie's Civil Rights history since he entered the race, it is past time to do an in depth comparison of both of their records.
Perhaps when they chose this as THE issue to try to attack Sanders with, it should have occurred to them that it would also raise questions about their own candidate's history.
And it has.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)brush
(53,778 posts)This smear is going nowhere.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)smears are exposed for what they are every time they appear.
DianeK
(975 posts)is there no level that you will not stoop to? I just have to say..this post makes your side look very desparate..you may think you do, but trust me..you do Hillary no favors with such a desparate and pathetic attempt to discredit such an admiral man. Nothing less than disgraceful!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)for their candidate.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)You toss that accusation at every poster who disagrees with you. This is a discussion board not an echo chamber.
polly7
(20,582 posts)and they all come across as looking desperate and a bit ............ let's see, I'm trying for a nice word ........... obsessed! That's it!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It's what Republicans did to Kerry.
More right wing crap from Hillary supporters.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)you will see that the person at the time link is wearing the exact same sweater, glasses, haircut and pants as the above photo. Bruce Rappaport, my butt. This is swiftboating. Did Clinton's team pay these people to say such things, or did they come up with it themselves.
You should be ashamed.
Z
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Even if that isn't him in the photo, he was in SNCC at UofC and worked hard for the freedom movement...as opposed tp HRC, who played no role in it, ever.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)who are going to be spending huge amounts of money to plant stuff like we saw in the media, already caught Brock doing it, to try to destroy him.
This kind of thing should be condemned by everyone, regardless of candidate preferences. It is part os what ha destroyed our electoral system
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)of course it would be the next step to slander and discredit Bernie Sanders.....
RandySF
(58,835 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)in the media, we KNOW where these planted stories are coming from.
Media will publish whatever they get.
It's certaily an old Rovian trick and Hillary's campaign should be ashamed to be associated with it.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)And they own CNN, who hosted the last debate that Hillary "won" despite
all independent evidence.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)stories in the media using Hillary's Super Pac, has a few connections to Time Warner especially since Hillary's Campaign has stated that they are 'working in coordination with Brock and his Hillary Super Pac.
All this is the reason WHY we must get the money out of politics. Every day we see more examples like this which are destroying our electoral system as people like Brock who have contributed NOTHING to this country OTHER than engage in smear campaigns, take advantage of that money.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)this was my response, which kinda makes your point as well, about how
Brock's attack ad on Bernie backfired:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=795269
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)paid for by Corporations, than they used to. But now that they have RAISED This issue AGAIN, probably planted by Brocks Hillary Super Pac, since we know he is doing this, I think it's time to do a real comparison between these two Civil Rights Era Candidates to see how they compare!
It's funny because initially they were dismissing Bernie's record, making ridiculous claims like 'that was 50 years ago and doesn't count' kind of thing.
I hadn't yet looked at Hillary's record at the time, and wondered how ANY Democrat could actually dismiss that entire era as 'not important'. Now I know! Lol, their own attempts at smears CAUSED people to go look at Hillary's record, and that explained the whole thing.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)They love inane controversies and made up scandals. Sells papers and gets eyeballs.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)was.
Hillary's emails is an entirely different issue. There was an investigation that warranted some coverage.
But having caught Brock eg, trying to plant LIES in the media, using Hillary's Super Pac, doing what he always has done, see the Paula Jones garbage, we KNOW these are planned smear campaigns which have zero to do with anything OTHER than to try to Swift Boat a good candidate.
I really wish we didn't get this 'both sides' routine when clearly that is not the case. Sick of it frankly.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)That is completely offensive. John Lewis bears life-long injuries from having the shit beat out of him in the Civil Rights movement. There are other Civil Rights activists, African Americans who have devoted their lives to the issue. The idea that one white man who marched 50 years ago has a better record than they do is completely offensive.
You really can't stop, can you? This is exactly how you alienate key segments of the public. This level of hero worship is unbecoming and when you make claims like he has the best record on Civil Rights you spit in the face of people who have risked their lives to fight for it. Bernie nor any other white liberal is their savior. They earned their rights by decades--centuries--of activism. And you show that means nothing compared to your desperate efforts to elevate one man above every other human being. Those kinds of claims only hurt his candidacy because they are so clearly false and reveal a stunning level of insensitivity and misinformation on your part.
As for the photos, you don't know who it is because you weren't there. There are people who were there you remember it differently. Regardless of the photo, that you use this as an opportunity to resurrect this whitesplaining about Bernie as more important in regard to Civil Rights than those who have devoted their entire lives to the struggle is unseemly.
How is Bernie's record on Civil Rights better than John Lewis'? Explain that now. You made the claim. Back it up.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)As for the rest, not interested in the opinions of people who want to divide this country. They are failing miserably as people are coming together more than ever before to undo the horrible policies that have led us to the point we are now at.
.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Instead of insisting one white man who participated in a march fifty years ago has a better record than those who risked and gave their lives? You didn't just divide. You spit in the face of African American Civil Rights activists like John Lewis. You raised the issue, in a completely counterfactual way, and now you refuse to defend your claim that Bernie has the best or "almost" the best record.
What is divisive is to exclude a people from the history of their own struggle because it serves craven political purposes.
Sanders hasn't lived in black skin for one day. Any black member of congress has done more than he has. Any and all of them.
You have nothing to support your claim. No facts, no evidence. What has he done that is so great for Civil Rights? How is voting for the Mintuemen and the Wall being a great champion for Civil Rights? https://votesmart.org/candidate/27110/bernie-sanders?categoryId=40&type=V,S,R,E,F,P#.VkTrR4TydUQ
How is your insistence that he is more important to Civil Rights that the black members of congress not divisive?
There is nothing radical or progressive about the elevation of one man above to this extent. Quite the opposite. It betrays a profoundly conservative (not as in GOP but as in its traditional meaning) worldview, likewise evidenced by the ease with which you write an entire people out of their own history of Civil Rights activism.
randys1
(16,286 posts)whitesplaining/lecturing to Black folk why they should wise up about Bernie.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)And you should be smart enough to know that. It teeters on racism itself.
It should not matter if a white person, or a black person, or another color person informs you, or me for that matter, and puts forth their reasons why this candidate or that candidate would be better for the issues that most affect you. The idea that its the messenger that is more important than the message is so counterproductive.
I guess its a conundrum when an AA like Ben Carson says that the ACA, enacted by another AA, is like living in Nazi Germany.
So would this gentleman in this article, Will Crosby, be "blacksplaining" to you?
http://inthesetimes.com/article/18405/building-black-support-for-bernie
Crosby thinks Bernie Sanders is the best presidential candidate for African Americans. Bernie Sanders is talking about issues that directly affect our community and hes doing it in a fearless way, Crosby says. Unfortunately, he adds, Sanders message has yet to penetrate into the black community.
randys1
(16,286 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)I wonder though how Hillary differs from Bernie when both "whitesplain" their positions and their records on civil rights for you to side with Hillary in the end. Or is it more a matter of siding with "womensplaining" over "mensplaining" to you.
randys1
(16,286 posts)and everything to do with their supporters who are doing all the whitesplaining.
Hillary's supporters havent needed to do much whitesplaining, the others are doing it for them.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)Sorry I assumed you'd be a Hillary supporter.
And although I can empathize with the black community always taking a white person's opinion with a grain of salt (or maybe pepper) based on the history of the two races, I just find any belief system that self imposes a censorship based on the speakers race, sex, orientation, or for that matter anything..height, hair style, attractiveness...to be limiting and I pity those that first look at who said it, and not the validity of what was being said. Or that someone who is the "other" cannot have any insight whatsoever into another groups needs, or at least should never speak it. Its more that I am baffled than that I want to start an argument about it.
Have a good day
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)wrong group.
All the reasons that I assume you do.
Potentially Middle East as well.
All of the issues that Hillary is not likely to improve on that he would (assuming he could get cooperation, and he wont) are very important.
However...there are many other issues that they agree on or that they are vastly different from the rightwing assholes.
Which is why I want to make sure both are strong candidates going into the real fight.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)focused on the Presidential race. Electing actual Dems not Third Wayers as well as Bernie is absolutely vital to make sure that he does have support in Congress.
The past two mid terms have demonstrated that the people will no longer accept candidates who say one thing in campaigns, then vote the opposite way once elected.
Bernie will win the nomination absent any Corporate funded campaigns against him. Which is why, IF people actually do want someone who represents THEM over Wall St, they will make sure those campaigns go nowhere.
Unlike when Kerry was running and Dems did nothing to expose the smear mongers until it was too late.
No more can people afford to allow these smears to go unchallenged, unless of course they do not want to change the direction of this country.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)racism are not found on internet forums attacking people and lying about good Democratic Candidates. They are far too busy working together with as many allies as possible to try to end the horrific police brutality and bigotry, which btw, I never see discussed here.
I and most of us who have long been trying to get attention for this issue, don't waste time here engaging in the garbage that is intended only to divide people.
Thankfully it has remained only something a very tiny group of disgruntled people still drag around trying desperately to get some attention in order to waste time and energy which is far better directed at doing constructive work that has a chance of success in the Real World.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Why not keep it up?
randys1
(16,286 posts)To be honest, I believe Bernie is by definition and default superior to any living white politician when it comes to civll rights.
But this is merely my inexperienced opinion.
Yet I dont think that is what many AfAm are looking at, his dedication isnt questioned, I dont think, but his abilities are. Is he able to accomplish anything in the current environment?
Personally I think the teaparty hates Black people so much they wont cooperate with anybody ever, but it isnt up to me to tell the AfAm community what to think, good thing too.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)and his candidacy. While I disagree with your assessment, good people can disagree. But when it's taken to those kind of exalted levels, it becomes absurd and counterproductive. That's what led to the whole #berniesoblack thing. Evidently some refused to pay attention to any of those concerns. That, I submit, is one problem with only considering views and information that confirms one's preexisting beliefs. It shuts out the concerns of large groups of people and makes for a very narrow and sometimes counterproductive approach.
randys1
(16,286 posts)but that I am learning what matters to those most affected.
Why it matters, and so on.
It is an education for a white guy, believe me
My privilege allows me to make observations that may not have any credibility whenever it comes to race.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I get such a kick out comments like yours, frankly.
We all do now.
But keep up the good work, you have no idea how effective it is for us when we are signing people up for Bernie, to show them these kinds of comments.
randys1
(16,286 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to worry, t happens to all of us one time or another.
randys1
(16,286 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)something about these issues. Not with those who only pop up during elections.
Feel free to continue whatever it is you are trying to do.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Saying that Sanders had a history of support and involvement in the civil rights era has absolutely NOTHING to do with John Lewis.
Nobody is saying that Sanders swooped in off the clouds and single-handedly led the Civil Rights struggle of the 60's. Jeeze that is beyond distortion. nSanders was one among many, many people who participated in that larger struggle. NO ONE is suggesting otherwise.
Yes some people disagree with Lewis's endorsement of Clinton. But so what? No one Nobody (at least nobody reasonable) is saying Lewis's history is wiped out because he made an endorsement today that some disagree with.
My Gawd,
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)The contest isn't between Lewis and Sanders for greatest Civil Rights icon, it's been Hillary and Bernie for the Democratic nomination. So please don't try to convoluted the two.
In the nomination contest there is no question that HRC has the more RW record on issues such as criminal justice and war and peace issues thst directly and negatively impact the lives of POC along with the rest of America.
xocet
(3,871 posts)a post is unfortunate to say the least.
mcar
(42,331 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)sadly, for some reason it seems to work.
artislife
(9,497 posts)From politics as usual. How to be usual.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)happen here. I want to know what HILLARY was doing while Bernie was getting arrested for protesting segregation.
It will work if people continue to go into those threads and give them any attention whatsoever. The way to end these Rovian despicable smears is to start OPs that tell the truth.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)the internet as well. Education is our tool.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the Civil Rights era. Using every Social Media account people have to do so.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)educating, they know what it is when they see it. How despicable though for any Democrat to support such tactics.
randys1
(16,286 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)voters who are not setting on the computer all day all need to see that there is a difference between the candidate.
If you are implying that I want to educate black people well think again. I want to educate all voters.
randys1
(16,286 posts)about his record.
White Hillary voters either already know or take the position that her record is equal to Bernie's
There is only one group these are targeted at and we both know it
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I imagine that is what you are talking about.
Her Civil Rights Record is not equal to Bernie's which of course is why we are seeing these attempts to smear Sanders.
Since that is the route her campaign wants to take, now we will be seeing HER record, not smears, we don't engage in lies and smears, her REAL Civil Rights Era record.
George II
(67,782 posts)But where was Hillary?"
Excuse me, but in 1962 Hillary Clinton was in High School at the age of FIFTEEN!
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)at 15 years old, too.
I can't believe that this remains an issue, though.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)has done is raise questions about her own history during that era. But people will allow Swift Boating no doubt paid for by Corporate money, to go unchallenged THIS TIME.
We saw what happened when Kerry decided not to respond to it.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)So what if that one picture isn't him (though I think it is him - the hand gestures! Look at them AND the sweater) and who really gives a rats ass? No one does! Except The Hillpack and David Brock.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)become one of the top issues in this campaign, getting the money out of politics.
I wouldn't be surprised if Brock and his Hillary Super Pac planted this story as he tried to do before with another attempt to smear Bernie, but got caught Red Handed.
We do indeed need to USE their money to demonstrate why getting the money out of politics is so important. Dry up those Corporate funds and we won't be seeing people like Brock going after it anymore. It would instantly rid DC of the army of cockroaches that hover around during election season willing to do ANYTHING to get their hands on some of that money.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)while in High School.
appalachiablue
(41,132 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 13, 2015, 02:12 AM - Edit history (1)
John K. Galbraith, Wm. F. Buckley, Abby Hoffman and others. I also participated in civil rights and anti war demonstrations there. Activism and involvement at that young age by many was not uncommon, you're right. I'm younger than Hillary by more than 6 years.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Being in HS certainly isn't an excuse for not being involved, especially in that period of our history.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)They have absolutely no shame in their attacks from the right.
Right wing ruins minds.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)for Hillary's Campaign, coordinating with it actually, David 'blinded by the money' Brock. Anyone who would use that sleazy smear campaigner, who ever thought he had changed his ways, is beyond contempt imo.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)That, IMCPO, makes her hiring him REALLY, REALLY sick.
If anyone out there wants to read David Brock's book about what he did during Whitewater, it's "Blinded by the Right." Read it and then ask yourselves why would that man be let anywhere near the Clinton campaign?
It can only be because he knows all the Rovian tactics and how the game is played.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)have any principles that I am aware of. He introduced the world to Paula Jones airc, then used the Right Wing Noise Machine as he called it to plant the 'story' in their various networks of media online and on TV, Talk Radio.
This REEKS of Brock frankly. And I think it's time to review this smearmonger's history which nearly brought down a Democratic Presidency.
As for the Clintons now associating with him, yes, I find that to be utterly appalling.
Airc, when he made his first overtures to them, they ignored him. It was way, way too late, he had made his money, then made more writing his book, then was 'rewarded' for his defection with MM
l don't believe in rewarding morally corrupted individuals.
Anyone who thought he had changed, knows now that people like him, without ethics or morals for the most part do not change. After he was caught trying to use his old tactics, planting lies about Bernie in the media, exposed by two Bloomberg Journalists.
So that one failed, and this has his names written all over it. I'm sure he was a student and admirer of Rove.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)He's got the entire force of the internet and Millennials behind him. Their hit jobs will be answered immediately and sent to the dust bins of history!
Or, in the case of the DU Hillpack, it will make their Master Bernie Hit List to be recycled over and over and over again.
Great post!
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)they apparently EXPECTED! It's time to take a close look at what she was doing while Bernie was deeply involved in the Civil Rights Movement.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I don't think so.
Doing what a lot of other students at The University of Chicago were doing at the time...yes
MineralMan
(146,310 posts)That's clear. Still, people of color will vote for the candidate they want to win. Browbeating them will not alter their decisions. Truly it will not.
Hillary Clinton has also done an excellent job, and is recognized for that by anyone who has paid attention.
As for being where MLK was while being a young white guy, I was, too. I stood in the crowd in Montgomery and heard him give his "How Long" speech after driving to be there from California at age 19. That, however, does not mean that I'm a civil rights hero. I"m far from that, despite supporting that movement all my life.
Many people were involved in those days, in one way or another. That, in itself, is not a qualification for support from people of color. There are many factors that go into that support. Many factors, indeed.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Except you.
MineralMan
(146,310 posts)It says something, for sure.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)and as someone who is quite informed about Sanders' record, I am offended by it.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Stating opinion on issues that affect African Americans is not 'brow beating'.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I mean, it's not like you are going door-to-door saying it; it's being talked about on blogs and in twitter. Constantly. As if black voters owe Bernie Sanders their vote because of it.
I'm informed...as every black poster on this blog is.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He did march with king. It isn't bullshit. It is a fact.
You cannot level accusations of racism against Sanders or his supporters and expect no push back. Sorry, politics doesn't work that way. It never has and never will. We will not 'sit down and shut up' and take accusations of racism, sorry.
Every time her supporters call Sanders 'White Supremacist' or 'racist' they will be reminded that he has the strongest civil rights record in this election, and that he marched with fellow Democratic Socialist Martin Luther King Jr, because facts are stubborn things.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)that he was "way, way back there."
and I don't really give a shit what Sanders supporters will take and what they won't take. Some Sanders supporters are acting and behaving in a very racist way.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And behaving in a very racist way. Not that you give a shit...
Hillary supporters racist swiftboating of Sanders
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I'm not a Hillary supporter.
But I will say that I can count the number of times on one hand that a Hillary supporter has approached me (online) with racist bullshit.
I can't say the same for some Sanders supporters.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)and besides, every post that I make refers to an outrageously racist post.
If you choose not to believe that no Sanders supporter is racist, that's your business. When a number of AA posters at this blog and other places are saying that...I mean, I would think that at least a little self-inventory would be done.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Almost all of them backed up by phony strawman accusations, it's obvious that racist tripe against AAs in regards to the primaries is from Hillary supporters trying to drive support away from Sanders.
The number of Hillary supporters here pretending to back Sanders (I support Sanders, but...) is more proof. IT's what they do.
Apparently it's working too.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)statement proves the point I made in the OP. THANK YOU!
So tellling the truth about Bernie's excellent Civil Rights record is browbeating!
I'm almost speechless.
I guess it demolishes the Talking Points intended to HIDE his Excellent Civil Rights Record, so there is that.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Where is his civil rights record hiding exactly? Whom are you telling this to and why?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)as someone who is quite informed on the subject.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)tactics are designed to do to good candidates what was done to Kerry and this time they will not work. Because AAs are finding out for themselves, maybe BECAUSE of these despicable tactics, who was standing up when it was necessary, and who is attempting to keep that information from them.
We are definitely working to make sure these old Swift Boat Right Wing tactics backfire on those low enough to use them.
I remember the night when those liars began their Swift Boating of Kerry. We saw the post on FR offering to 'supply info that woud take Kerry down'. It was deleted when people began to figure out where it began and who they were.
Not going to happne to Bernie. Kerry waited too long and the lies stuck.
Bernie has an army of supporters who are not going to let these things go the way Kerry did. So no use attempting to 'appease' 'cajole' or smear those who want the money out of our political system because THIS is what it is used for.
MineralMan
(146,310 posts)I agree with that. It's beyond question.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)And until they STOP these lies and Corporate Funded smear attempts, hundreds of thousands of people will be all over Social Media, NOT being paid, volunteering to destroy and whenever possible, as in the last one that was exposed, cause them to BACKFIRE.
Bernie doesn't engage in these tactics.
But we know that when a Campaign does, it must be exposed. Unlike what happened with Kerry. In fact I think it may be time to document the Swift Boat campaign, which as I said, started to our knowledge, when they went to FR with their 'story'. Then used as is happening now, their 'media' contacts to spread the lies.
Not going to happen again. It is a #1 Issue in this campaign. The dirty political tactics PAID for by Corporate Funding facilitated by Citizens United.
Spreading these lies only makes it possible for people to highlight how damaging that money is to fair elections.
We thank them for providing the examples.
Number23
(24,544 posts)poignant nonetheless.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Her supporters know no shame. It speaks volumes to their integrity.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)as anyone can get.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Mainly because it debunks the ever popular "It's Bernie (and his supporters) fault he's not resonating with PoC" meme.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=797516
This guy pretty much lays out the truth of the matter. For various reasons beyond Sanders' control this demo won't vote for him. All the other noise we've been hearing for months is divisive propaganda.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)get attention for these excellent comments, just some advice, don't put them in those talking point threads. People are refusing to kick them.
But start your own OP so that people get the facts. They will be lost in flame bait threads as more and more people realize that kicking them is what they want you to do and they don't care whether you are posting facts or not. Also a lot of people have then on ignore.
That thread you posted in is a perfect example of a talking point, nothing more.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)It sank like a rock. Despite my best efforts, no one would touch the OP. I think I know why.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)much support is that, and I hope you won't mind my saying this, it does acknowledge a talking point which has little basis in fact as evidence by who was quite happy to kick it.
The ONLY problem Bernie has with AAs is NAME RECOGNITION. Same as he had with everyone else.
Any other claim is a lie. To ackowledge the tallking points only strengthens them.
Bernie's support from AAs and other minorities, is growing by the day as evidenced on Social Media where each day I have to add Minorities for Bernie to my follow list and I can't keep up with them as more and more minorities learn about him for themselves.
The 'he has a problem' with AAs meme is just that, it's a lie. I am eg. working with longtime family friends from Virginia AA family, who are working there to introduce Bernie to AAs who never heard of him, but once they do, are enthusiastic about him, and when I show them some of what has been posted here, they just sigh. As I've said and will say again, none of those on this forum claiming to speak for AAs have any influence or right to make that claim.
Hope you don't mind my offering my opinion. I didn't kick it myself because it did feed into that meme.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)My purpose for reposting it wasn't to validate that opinion per se, but to point out to the original poster that if what this guy says is true, it works against the Bernie sux with PoC meme. I tend to agree with you, the more unadulterated exposure Bernie gets with all demos, the more people support him. Simply, I was using a respected AA pundit's opinion (factual or not) as a counter argument to the it's all Bernie's fault meme.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)be as honest as you are and will jump on things and take them out of context which I have learned the hard way after so many years dealiing with the right back in the old Bush era.
I've learned to focus only on the positive. Even to contradict their talking points I found out by using them as a foundation for a discussion, feeds them and they will make sure to use them that way.
So now I post the FACTS about Bernie, THEN slam the lies, but never in their threads. Too bad we all had to learn to watch out for the deviousness that devours our system, especially people who are naturally honest and themselves would never engage in such tactics.
But sadly we do have to be aware. We don't have the funding and Super Pacs, Think Tanks etc to fight for Bernie, so we have to do it ourselves.
Love your posts, didn't in any way mean to criticize YOU, I was just pointing out how careful we have to be because not everyone is interested in honest discussion and likely to twist our words!
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)I admit half the stuff spontaneously issued from my virtual pie hole deserves criticism. And you have my blessing to call me on it anytime
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)people I respect and tried to absorb it and remember the mine field we are trying to negotiate, sadly. I like to hear from people I respect on what I might be doing wrong, we all do. I don't, however pay much attention to people I do not respect for whatever reasons.
mythology
(9,527 posts)There is no conspiracy blocking Sanders from forming a more effective message message to minority voters. He's the one who needs their votes.
PatrickforO
(14,574 posts)polls, swiftboating and coming up with meme after meme to discredit Bernie and destroy his candidacy.
This is why I've often said on posts here that the establishment and its billionaire backers may be in for quite a surprise when the votes begin coming in.
Are we in 'la-la' land? I think not. But we'll see, won't we?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)desperate to keep people from learning about the ONLY candidate in the race who represents them.
And the reason why we must destroy their well-funded lies and smears everywhere we see them.
Because in the past, they worked, destroying candidates who could have taken this country in a whole different direction.
They are getting more push back now than they ever did before with these old smear campaigns.
We the people have some powerful tools at our disposal that we didn't have in the past, the Social Media for one, which thankfully they tend to dismiss.
So no, we are not in denial about anything, but it is going to be a huge fight to keep them from distorting and smearing those who we know and the people now, will be the best choices for this country.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)is that theyre making an issue out of a picture that may have been of a guy who worked by his side "The alumni say the man in the photo is actually Bruce Rappaport, a fellow student activist with a similar haircut, glasses and stature, who died in 2006.. Theyre trying to make an issue out of something that, if true, was an honest mistake (the guy next to the podium is NO DOUBT Bernie though).
So they know these guys looked similar and were both devoted to the cause and worked tirelessly for Civil Rights. Both men were there. One picture may have been misattributed to Bernie but he WAS STILL DOING WHAT HE SAID HE WAS DOING. ITS NOT LIKE BERNIE LIED, YOU KNOW, LIKE BEING UNDER SNIPER FIRE IN BOSNIA.
Honestly, this is seriously idiotic. Smells a fuckuvalot like desperation.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Rove is jealous he didn't think of it first.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)candidate because if they think this campaign will ignore these Swift Boat campaigns, as happened with Kerry, they are mistaken.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I'm glad to see this action memorialized. Most any thread pointing to what Sanders continues to do throughout his career gets a predictable response in the form of disrupting commentary.
It DOES mater WHO does WHAT WHEN and most of all - WHY.
Because Bernie Sanders has always been true to these goals. Simply put, Hillary has not.
K&R
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)unanswered, as it did with Kerry, they forget what era this is. This isn't back in the Bush era when there was no Social Media for the people themselves to use, to speak of. There were blogs, like this, but nothing to compare to the tools the people now have to combate the Corporate Funded Smear Campaigns we are seeing on a regular basis lately.
Brock was caught and exposed trying to plant negative, lying stories about Bernie in the media.
The result was a complete backfire, earning for Bernie tens of thousand of donations to his campaign.
THIS latest Swift Boat attack, was no doubt planted also. It is so typically ROVIAN that you know it wasn't just a few old 'friends' of Bernie's.
When it looks like a duck etc.
And Bernie needs and will need even more in the future the better he is doing, a rapid response to these Corporate Funded smears.
I notice also that when his supporters fight back all of a sudden we get 'both sides are doing it'. NO, they are NOT. Only ONE side is doing this the other side is responding, and that too is a fact.
merrily
(45,251 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)effectiveness, now that sadly, we are no longer shocked, as we once were, that such people exist and tamper with our democratic system, using these evil, deceptive tactics to try to control it.
Who unless they themselves are equally evil, like Rove, would even have thought there were minds that occupied themselves with how to deceive and destroy, rather than build a nation into something better?
I wish I had never learned about them, but then I'm glad I did. Because it was our 'innocence' that allowed them to succeed.
merrily
(45,251 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Civil Rights record, and keep telling it and also, tell the truth about the lies.
merrily
(45,251 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to distort though for smear mongers trying is what makes their living. Still, it must be frustrating for them that it's getting more and more difficult to do with a candidate like Sanders and a population who is sick and tired of the entire rigged system.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)Being well known is not an endorsement of character.
Wielding power for the sake of wielding power isn't leadership. Leadership says, "Let us do this", not "I'll get this done".
I require no savior, but I'll lend my strength to a partner.
senz
(11,945 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)don't do black issues. So you can't blame her for not being involved in issues important to PoC during the period of time she was involved with the Republican Party. She modified her public views once she changed parties, and it became fashionable for conservative Democrats to do so.
jalan48
(13,866 posts)davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)You know, I've never really seen any indication that Sanders is actually racist. I've never seen any indication that he is sexist (the "shouting" comment, I think, has been taken out of context) either. Neither Clinton nor Sanders appear to have any record of being a terrible bigot.
I wish the criticism could be a little more honest. I'm sure that there are supporters, on both sides, who do not do their candidates justice, who are indeed guilty of racism, sexism, general ignorance and stupidity, but as far as character goes, I think the candidates themselves are pretty solid.
I find it really kind of ironic that a lot of the same people who supported Obama for President and are now supporting Sanders are being accused of not liking, or not giving a damn about black people. I find it ridiculous beyond words that Sanders is accused of the same thing. Are there people on both sides of this debate who are unpleasant? Absolutely. What gets to me though, is that there are so many baseless accusations that get thrown around without being challenged.
Having said that... where was Clinton during the civil rights era? Being a kid, most likely, doing kid stuff, most likely. She may have been a child of wealth and entitlement, but I don't see any reason to doubt that her heart was in the right place in regards to civil rights. It was before my time - and I don't know what I would have done myself had I been alive during that time. Today, I absolutely support civil rights movements - but in my teens? Well, I wasn't really that well educated, I was terribly self involved and mostly focused on playing video games.
Are we going to criticize what people did before they were even old enough to vote? If we are, I'm kinda screwed too. You know, there is a strength, a wisdom that comes (or at least CAN come) from the foundation of experience, which I believe both Sanders and Clinton have, but doubt that either of them had in any significance before they were adults.
Can't we just stick to the real issues? Let's raise the minimum wage, let's bring back some sensible regulation, maybe spend a little more money on things like... oh, I don't know, education, infrastructure, health-care - and let's maybe spend a little less money giving tax relief to billionaires. Let's do what we can to improve the status of our environment, to slow down climate change. Let's bring an end to the wage gap. Let's bring about laws that equally apply to everyone - so black people aren't being beaten to death by racist asshole cops. We will find these things - and others, easier to accomplish, if we stop fighting among ourselves. Even if we simply maintain more honest debates among ourselves.
I have my reasons for voting for Sanders, primarily, it is that he represents my own point of view in regards to fairness, equality - and the economy, than Clinton does. I think that Sanders has some great ideas for healthcare, for education, for so many things. I think Clinton has some good ideas too. If all things were more equal in regards to wealth, in regards to corporate influence, I might be far more tempted to vote for Clinton than I am.
Corporations, corporate money... they are taking over, overruling law, common sense, justice, fairness, the worship of such seems to be replacing generosity, good will, empathy.
The real issue for me in this campaign is whether or not the power of money and corporate influence can even be challenged. I think Sanders has proven that it can. That's a good thing for all of us who aren't billionaires.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)corporate funded entities, Super Pacs, have been caught trying to plant smears against Sanders in the media. We also know that the Corporate money in politics, is used, millions of dollars in every election, to stop people like Bernie who is challenging the system.
Sadly the Super Pac run by David Brock who was exposed trying to smear Bernie, without having his own name attached to it, works in cooperation with the Hillary campaign.
Bernie has no Super Pacs as they are the means by which Corporate Donors can get around the Campaign Finance laws and pour money into these Super Pacs, anonymously and in unlimited amounts. Citizens United made this possible.
And we know that the talking points re Bernie, obliterating his Civil Rights record, come from the Hillary Campaign.
It would be nice if Hillary herself condemned all of this, as Bernie does.
But she hasn't. As for what she was doing which has only become a question since her campaign began attacking and actually lying about Bernie's record? She was a Republican working for Goldwater, while other High School students were involved in the Civil Rights movement.
No one was making an issue of any of this, until the nasty, daily attacks began against Sanders and his supporters.
That's what happens when you decide to go on the attack, rather than stick to the issues. People begin to look at YOUR record also.
Thanks for your post ...