2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Civil Rights Campaign Photo .....Not Bernie?
At a televised Democratic candidate forum Friday, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow showed Bernie Sanders a black-and-white photoof man with his face turned away from the camera speaking before a civil rights protest. This is you in 1962, Maddow said to the Vermont senator.
Who is that handsome young guy with the dark hair? joked Sanders. The audience laughed.
There was just one problem: Four University of Chicago alumni who went to school with Sanders tell TIME they believe that the dramatic photo of Sanders, which his campaign has featured on its website and in a promotional video, is not in fact a photograph of Sanders. An archivist at the University of Chicago agreed in January that Sanders was not the speaker in the photo, though the schools official decision on the mans identity is still pending.
The alumni say the man in the photo is actually Bruce Rappaport, a fellow student activist with a similar haircut, glasses and stature, who died in 2006. I can certainly recognize it as Bruce Rappaport, partly because of the curvature of his spine, and I see that tall thin look from the side, said Richard Schmitt, who was in the class of 1966 and lived near Rappaport in a campus dorm. When I saw it, I said, Thats Bruce Rappaport.
http://time.com/4108379/bernie-sanders-photo-civil-rights/?xid=tcoshare
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Same cuffs rolled up. Same ear. Same guy.
Here's the one that is insinuated to be "Bruce Rappaport:"
?quality=75&strip=color&w=1000
Here's one of Bernie taken with the President of the University:
Another day, another Hillary campaign meme.
Qutzupalotl
(14,313 posts)Same sweater, as you noted.
That should end the fracas, but I know it won't.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Different hair, different head shape.
Qutzupalotl
(14,313 posts)but that's the same sweater. Same glasses, too.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Read the article.
Qutzupalotl
(14,313 posts)Also, Rappaport wore his hair different:
?w=560&quality=75&strip=color&h=376
LiberalArkie
(15,716 posts)you did or did not have the side burns. The chin is the difference.
Rapport
Above, 1963: Economic justice has been the central focus of Sanders 40-plus-year political careeras a young activist at the University of Chicago, though, Sanders agitated more for racial equality. In 1963 he was arrested during a demonstration protesting the citys segregated schools. He also traveled to Washingtonhis first time in D.C.to hear Martin Luther King speak at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom.
1971: Sanders and his son, Levi, then 2 1/2, at a Liberty Union Party meeting in the fall of 1971.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/gallery/2015/07/bernie-sanders-the-early-years/002279-032662.html#.VkUWMzZiD2U
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Also, Rappaport's hair looks curlier and doesn't appear to have a widow's peak below the part-line. Guess Bernie's hair line was already beginning to recede.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)So much evidence!
Bernie must be a liar.
How can we ever trust him again?
So many were so quick to pounce on this. It's interesting, isn't it?
KansDem
(28,498 posts)And worn with the sweater in the same fashion.
wilsonbooks
(972 posts)Sad. and pathetic. Bernie is right on the issues so they have to manufacture b.s. like this.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)Bernie is right on the issues.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)and it's not a very good Swiftboatting! LOL!
Clearly that is Bernie in the picture. It's the same sweater, same rolled cuff, same shirt underneath the sweater.
Bernie's face is longer and shaped differently that the other person's. It's obvious.
This is ridiculous.
But we see this attempt at Swiftboatting and we see the DUers who will line up behind this Rovian dick move--and repeat, repeat, repeat.
"Oh yeah, Becky. Totally it's not him. Gosh, Bernie is so lying about civil rights and stuff."
A Swiftboat attack can only survive if the underling flacks are willing to echo what has been top-down mandated.
It's really unbelievable to see this tried in our party.
I assume it will end soon, with some major fallout and blowback--as that is clearly Bernie (and not the other guy) in the picture.
polly7
(20,582 posts)From the same white shirt under the sweater with the rolled up cuffs, to the glasses, sideburns and posture. I've seen Sanders posture insultingly referred to here as a stooping old man ..... it looks like he may have had this same posture all his life.
Same guy.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:01 AM - Edit history (1)
same shirt and same velour sweater. Sweater cuffed on the right hand. Both are wearing a watch on the left hand.
I think he's being Swiftboatted.
What a crock of shit.
That's what happens after NH, and we pivot toward SC.
Gotta attack Bernie's strengths.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)But, what else do you expect from that crew? They won't let anyone get in their way, and will do practically anything to put her in the Oval Office.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)The "who is a bigger liar" game?
Read the whole article by the way.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)riversedge
(70,239 posts)...ibegurpard
3. Is Hillary really sure she wants to play
View profile
The "who is a bigger liar" game?
Read the whole article by the way.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)You all know exactly what you're up to. Hillary lies and you all try to do a Republican level of false equivalence by trying to say Bernie's doing the same thing here.
riversedge
(70,239 posts)who first made the vile accusation and you continue to look foolish with this response.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I'm sure that's just a coincidence.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Simply
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)The article isn't about Hillary and has nothing to do with her.
Reading is fundamental.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Just visit downthread
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Cha
(297,275 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Cha
(297,275 posts)firebrand80
(2,760 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)of lying....possibly misremebering.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)On the other hand, I'm only 35 years old, so I have no idea what it's like to have to identify a photo from that long ago when you're Bernie's age.
Also, I think MSNBC put the photo in front of him, it's not like his campaign put it out. Most likely he just glanced at the photo and assumed it was him.
It's not a big deal, but this is DU, so I expect this to be at least a 24 hour shitstorm.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)As a child. Turns out she was remembering photo she'd seen of me there. Memory is a funny thing.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)It's much easier to believe that Sanders is 'remembering things wrong' as opposed to him knowing that the same pictures he's had for decades, is indeed a picture of himself.
Oh brother...
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Or rather 39 years, till you're Sander's age. I'm 10 years younger than that, and I can tell you, when an occasional picture surfaces from the past, and my face isn't fully visible, I think, is that me or someone else? Was my hair ever that long, was I ever that thin?
My husband recently found a picture of me from back in 1971 or something, sitting on the roof of our apartment building in what is now SoHo, NYC. It was decidedly me, but I kind of couldn't quite believe it on any level. Except for the shoes. Wallabees, we both exclaimed!
mythology
(9,527 posts)He was describing it to his parents who had the same picture of my cousin.
My family and I were discussing if it was my butt or my stepdad's in a picture from about 12 years ago.
It's not that difficult to believe the picture might be confusing. Sanders has a legitmately good record on civil rights. This Is or should be bea non-story.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Although we didn't look much alike as adults, one of my sisters looked very much like me as a child. I can only tell which is which without checking the backs of pictures by recognizing clothing I did/didn't own.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)....I have to look a pictures that go back over 60 years and I am not sure at times which one are of me or one of my cousins or one of my half sisters or one of my best pals. Also: I had one college pal that people use to get the two of us confused.
Have you looked at pictures of the 1960s? Everyone looks alike. Girls...long hair, guys...longer hair. Hats, sun glasses, head scarves, head bands, and there were no digital cameras back then. How often have you seen color snaps from the 1950s or 1960s? Dark curly hair and black horn rimmed glasses, pull over sweater, with dark pants and lace up shoes. Average height, average build. That could describe a lot of guys back then. I can see why there might be confusion.
starroute
(12,977 posts)From the article, it appears that Sanders was there and spoke at the protest. The only question is whether the photo of a man with his face turned away from the camera is of Sanders or another speaker.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)are concerned the picture is of the other guy? Wow, hot controversy.
LiberalArkie
(15,716 posts)twins except for the chin and hairline and sideburns. I wish them luck. A few years later they both had wild bushy hair when Rapport was in medical practice.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)If so, then this is a simple mix up over a photo that is half a century old. If not it is a problem.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Family photos with other family members?
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Bruce Rappaport is conveniently DEAD, so obviously cannot substantiate this either way.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Vince Foster ... Bruce Rappaport ... = HRC!!!
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I was going to suggest you be clearer that you were mocking an idea, but then, who knows, that might have resulted in more hide votes.
On Thu Nov 12, 2015, 10:44 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Connect the dots ... Connect the dots ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=798774
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Accusing Hillary of murdering Vince Foster? Really?!?
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Nov 12, 2015, 10:50 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I am sick to death of these ploys to oust people by the HRC gang! Fuck you all.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: 1StrongBlackMan is accusing Hillary of murdering Vince Foster? Really?!? Poe's law is an internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extremism are indistinguishable from sincere expressions of extremism. Poe's Law implies that parody will often be mistaken for sincere belief, and sincere beliefs for parody.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hillary murdering Foster - No one is that stupid to even think that!!
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Accusing fellow DUers of being wingnut conspiracy theorists is a personal attack. Dredging up 90s wingnuttery doesn't exactly elevate the level of discussion here. Hide it.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: He is not accusing her of murder. He is mocking the deranged ravings of the Clinton haters.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I would have thought, based on the number of DUer/jurors citing to my long history of {fill in thingy here}, the thingy would have been unneeded.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)that there was an alert and two voted to hide. Feels, and reads like alert stalking to me.
George II
(67,782 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Someone alerted on my post with the jury results thinking they were alerting on a juror.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)riversedge
(70,239 posts)PatrickforO
(14,576 posts)is that instead of talking about issues, Bernie will have to waste time explaining bullshit.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)could say, "No, I never owned a sweater like that." The man in the picture in the OP is turned far enough away from the camera that I don't think you can say one way or the other whether it's Sanders or Rappaport. Since both were student activists, this seems like a nonstory to me.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)EOM
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Same with the Clinton Marine recruiter story. I can imagine her going in there and getting the brush-off. I can imagine Bernie standing up and talking to other students.
Hell, I remember walking into classrooms at the university I was attending after the Haiphong bombing and telling them to walk out of class and join us on the library lawn to protest. I don't have any photos of that. I don't need them. If I tell that story, people believe me or they don't. It doesn't matter either way.
Same with this ancient history stuff. It has nothing to do with this year's primaries in any way, I think.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Oh well.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)I find it intriguing I have that effect on you.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)and violated the TOS within her first 20 posts "handed my ass to me" with a bunch of non-responsive lols and ad hominem attacks?
I remember it, sure. "hurt"? fucking hardly. But I remember.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Hell, if someone comes along and goes "HUR YUR A GIANT POOPYHEAD AND YOU EAT BOOGURZ WITH RAND PAUL DERP" then I can say that you got your ass handed to you, too- because that's some high-test debaterin' and intellectual conversationalizin, there!
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I'm totally getting flashbacks from the movie Cruel Intentions!
PatrickforO
(14,576 posts)Can't discredit the guy on issues...
Hey let's go for ANYTHING WE CAN.
The ears look the same in the two photos, by the way. I think the speaker is Bernie.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)A new study says that outer ear could be better unique identification mark in human beings than finger prints.
When youre born your ear is fully formed. The lobe descends a little, but overall it stays the same. Its a great way to identify people, said Mark Nixon, a computer scientist at the University of Southampton and leader of the research.
Nixon and his team presented a paper at the IEEE Fourth International Conference on Biometrics and using an algorithm identified people with 99.6 per cent accuracy.
The rays fly around the image and get caught in tubular things. The helix, or outer edge, of an ear is a wonderful tube that rays keep hitting, said Alastair Cummings, the Southampton University computer scientist who developed the algorithm. There are dozens of ways of doing ear biometrics, but this is a very good one.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I take back everything nice I ever said about him. This is just too scurrilous. That rotten bastard. Smashing my hopes with his lies. Now that I know this "Bernie. No More.!"
FROM THE ARTICLE
Im thrilled with what Bernies standing for, and what he stood for back then, said Rappaports former roommate, Stark, who is black. It really hurts me hes not getting a lot of play among black people.
The photograph captures something of Sanders early life, his fellow alumni sayeven if its not actually Sanders.
Kaufman said whats important is that Sanders was there in 1962 and doing what he does best: agitating. Bernie was leader in that, and hes continued to make a life that way, Kaufman said. Its a great picture that captures the moment.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)One thing that Bernie does not do is sit around looking at old photos of himself demonstrating.
What would have been funny would have been for Bernie to deny in the forum that the picture was actually of him.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)That would have gone over big....Gee, could even toss some sexism in there as a bonus
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)remember my reply in that other thread...... maybe Xanax was not the answer
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)brooklynite
(94,588 posts)...and then look at the additional photos in the TIME article, the figure in the first picture has slightly curling hair, which appears to match Rappaport rather than Sanders.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)It's the same guy.
PatrickforO
(14,576 posts)Doesn't he EVER buy new clothes?
I'll bet he has one of everything. One old rumpled suit. One shirt, one tie, one pair of old dress shoes with a hole in one of the soles...
And he flies COACH.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)This scandal is AWESOME!
George II
(67,782 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)riversedge
(70,239 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Surprised?
azmom
(5,208 posts)At the University of Chicago, Sanders was a leader of the Congress on Racial Equality, a civil rights group. In his first year at school, Sanders and fellow activists suspected that the university housing was discriminating against black students, so he tested the theory by having black and white couples to try and rent the same room. They found that black couples were being turned away. In January 1962, Sanders led the sit-in at the schools administrative building and sought to negotiate a settlement with the university. It was one of the first civil rights sit-ins outside the South.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)(Oddly, this is the only Broadway show I've ever seen. )
MuseRider
(34,111 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)This is a fairly common thing and not really a good way to judge someone's character or honesty. Not worth fussing over.
Now, has anyone seen where I left my reading glasses??? They were right here just a minute ago!!
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Someone needs to start a meme generator
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)onenote
(42,708 posts)Can be read multiple ways, some quite funny if you think about it.
For example, my first reaction was to post: Heck, folks have been denying Jesus was a Jew for hundreds of years.
Autumn
(45,098 posts)grainy black and white photos of them or of someone who very much closely resembles them with just a partial side back view and know for sure it was or wasn't them. A journalist or media personality is expected to do the research and know it's a photo of them. If it's not him, that's on her for saying This is you in 1962, Maddow said to the Vermont senator.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)I don't think anytbody f***** up I think it's more case of mistaken memory
thucythucy
(8,067 posts)I have trouble finding the non-words to describe it.
Really? We're parsing old photos now, looking for what?
At the worst it's an honest mistake. Lots of people make them. Time to move on to something consequential.
IllinoisBrenel
(51 posts)Who question whether the picture is of Bernie seem to respect Bernie and say he (Bernie) was right there with the other students! It looks like it is him to me! But even if it isn't him, we know he was right standing up against discrimination. He has done this all his life.
onenote
(42,708 posts)Based on the two individuals sideburns, I would conclude that Bernie is the guy in the picture addressing the students. Both pictures that are identified as Bernie show someone with sideburns that extend below his glasses. The picture identified as Bruce Rappaport shows someone who's sideburns end in line with their glasses.
Doesn't mean that the picture of Rappaport wasn't taken at a different time and that he didn't have similar sideburns to Bernie's at some point, but more than even the similarity of the clothing in the two pictures, the sidelines seem to support the conclusion that it's Bernie.
Not that it makes any difference since no one claims Bernie wasn't a student activist.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)Corporations are amongst Hillary's Top Donors again? Just a coinkydink, I'm sure...
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)WAREZ TEH NERGATIVES! THIS IS HUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!121111!!!!
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)This will surely bring us together for the GE.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)pinstikfartherin
(500 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)This picture is Bernie, though.
Vinca
(50,276 posts)It's been identified by the school as Bernie for 50 years and Bernie was at the event. Maybe he's got a body double, but I think it's Bernie.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Obviously Bernie Sanders did.
Am I wrong to think that he was adorable as hell?
Back in my college days, I wouldn't have minded being handcuffed to him (I mean...for protest purposes, for course!).
SamKnause
(13,107 posts)Beowulf
(761 posts)BTW, Time is owned by TimeWarner, a major contributor to the Clinton campaign.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)"I took the photograph of Bernie Sanders speaking to his fellow CORE members at that sit-in. Bob McNamara, a close friend and CORE activist, is in the very corner next to me in the picture. Across the room from me is another campus photographer named Wexler, who taught me how to develop film.
"I photographed Bernie a second time after he got a haircut, as he appeared next to the noble laureate and chancellor Dr. George Beadle. Time Magazine is now claiming it is not Bernie in the picture but someone else. It is Bernie, and it is proof of his very early dedication to justice for African Americans. The CORE sit-in that Bernie helped lead was the first civil rights sit-in to take place in the North."
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The photographer said it was Sanders. Why don't you Hillary fanatics stick to the truth and the issues?
Jarqui
(10,126 posts)Trajan
(19,089 posts)Um ... Yeah ... Say hi to Bernie ...
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)that followed. Gruesome, ghastly lies about good people. Told for the sake of personal advantage at the expense of history that to some is very precious history.
This is similar of course to the abuse of truth and history in Hillary's bullshit about Reagan being an AIDS activist, the very fist and bravest of all. For a momentary personal advantage, important history is revised, retold, rewritten, the good people altered into bad, the bad people tweaked into great heroes of the times.
A vile tactic each and every time it has been used.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)pilgrimage to the Vatican.
Why engage me again in this manner?