Don't look now Hillbots, but Bernie's poll numbers are at record highs, and continue to climb!

[reformist2]

Easily lost in the flurry of news stories and posts claiming that Hillary has got her groove back, is the fact that Bernie has gained just as much support as Hillary these past few weeks, and is in fact now at record high numbers nationally. Hillary on the other hand has merely recovered some of the support she lost over the summer.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

[Betty Karlson]

1. The good news keeps coming in. eom

[cannabis_flower]

11. Yep

I read today that the Postal Workers Union has endorsed Sanders. The article I saw said it had 200,000 members.

[BlueMTexpat]

2. Please stop referring to

supporters of any Dem candidates as "-bots" as none of them like it. Nor should they.

At the very least, it implies that they don't have minds of their own. Just because one DUer's political beliefs are not in lockstep with another's does not mean that. Please.

If you want to use the term to describe any GOPer's supporters, you'd have a much better case.

[billhicks76]

6. Normally I'd Agree

But not here. Bernie generates new enthusiasm and I do believe Hillary has people blindly following her off a cliff much like Bush. And the Bushes and Clinton's are so intertwined expect a major makeover and rehab of the Bush Family name aided by Clinton.

[Nonhlanhla]

19. Yes, but...

Yes, Hillary has some blind followers. So does Bernie - as a matter of fact, I get worried when I read some of the more breathless messianic posts about him.

No politician should ever be followed blindly.

[yardwork]

108. Bullshit. This is a right wing meme.

Stop conflating the Bushes and Clintons. That's what got us 8 years of w.

[Scuba]

109. Yeah! 'Cause, um, well, um ....

[yardwork]

110. Proves only that the Clintons are smart politicians.

One of the things I like about Hillary is that she understands how to get elected and how to consolidate power.

Don't be confused by the difference between what the Clintons and Bushes do when they get power. Clinton - years of prosperity, no wars. Bushes - wars and economic disaster.

[sabrina 1]

113. She's only been elected twice in her life and lost her third try. I wouldn't call voting

for the War in Iraq, or making exceptions for torture, or being proud of the Welfare Reform votes she 'rounded up' to get it passed, or using religion to oppose marriage equality, or supporting the TPP or Three Strikes etc etc knowing how to get votes.

And you know what? I expect those who want the job of leading this country to NOT be willing to do anything, such as consorting with people like the war criminal Bush gang, Henry Kissinger et al, in order to do it.

Sick to death of being told that to HAVE principles and stand by them is WRONG while doing anything to get elected is 'admirable'.

Apparently it hasn't worked for Hillary because many people DO have principles re war and torture and right wing policies etc.

[Android3.14]

18. While I dislike when people give strangers directives, I appreciate the sentiment

Demeaning terms for supporters of specific candidates are unhelpful from any part of DU.

All the crowing about HRC's gains are misdirected because they aren't actually gains. They are a bounce from the Benghazi fiasco.

Beyond what I suspect are empty sockpuppets to influence the jury system and a half dozen Cave dwellers stirring up steaming piles of their own sociopathic feces to smear on their cheeks as some sort of misdirected badge of honor, many supporters of HRC are recognizing that Bernie brings enormous benefit to the table and are unhappy with the frantic evolution of their candidate's stances, undemocratic tactics of the DNC/DLC, reports she will scurry to the right as soon as the primaries are over, and the fact she will just let the TPP pass without a fight.

When Sanders wins the primary, most of our HRC camp will place their energy and enthusiasm with the candidate moving for real change. Unfortunately, if the inverse occurs, and Wasserman-Schultz steals the primary for Clinton, the enthusiasm for an HRC general election run will be tepid at best as so many Sanders folks have joined the Democratic Party specifically to support Sanders.

If the DLC/DNC are successful in their perversion of the primary process, it will just be more of this crappy situation we currently have, or far worse.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

32. Are you suggesting

That any result other than Bernie winning will be because of theft? Will you not respect the outcome of the primaries absent any real evidence of fraud?

[Betty Karlson]

62. Not so much theft and fraud, as bias and manipulation.

Like: DWS coldshouldering Sanders's allies in the Democratic Party board.
Like: limiting the number of debates, to avoid exposure for Sanders
Like: taking NO action to register Democratic voters at Sanders rallies, so as to limit the chance he'll win a caucus.

[Android3.14]

128. I try to avoid talking to the Thought Police

Find someone else to bully.

[BlueMTexpat]

124. It was a request, not a directive.

But it appears to have been ignored in any event. Not too smart if one wants to be taken seriously.

[winter is coming]

27. +1. n/t

[persuadable]

38. After the primary, we all have to live and work together

Otherwise Rubio will be POTUS. Let us disagree in a non-personal way.

[DFW]

73. Good advice

But: although I doubt Rubio will be POTUS, the animosity generated here will probably not dissipate once the nomination is settleded.

Too many people predicting the nominee, knowing they're right, and then finding out they're not after all.

Some will not get over it easily.

[Ed Suspicious]

74. When this shows up in as many pro-Hillary threads as it does in pro-Bernie threads, I'll be right

there with you.

[Motown_Johnny]

3. It is getting closer to Go time.

People will start paying more attention the closer we get to actual votes being cast. It is reasonable to assume that the closer we get the better Bernie will do.

If he really can win the first two contests (which I expect him to) then he should be able to carry that momentum forward.

It is still a bit far out for solid predictions, but it does look like he has a good shot at this.

[KingCharlemagne]

22. South Carolina may prove a problem though, for HRC continues to enjoy

widespread support there from African American voters, somewhat inexplicably given her 2008 gaffe(s) about 'hard-working white people' and her husband's disastrous 'Welfare Reform' policies. If Sanders can come in a very close 2nd in South Carolina and win Iowa and NH, he will have demonstrated broad-based geographic support and will then have claim to the nomination.

[tecelote]

52. There's this

November 4, 2008

Hillary 44%
Obama 22%

But what's real fun is to look at the trajectory:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html

[artislife]

97. Thank you!

The h supporters are replaying their posts from the 2008 campaign with the inevitibility refrain. This isn't over.

[SidDithers]

4. Clap for Tinkerbell!! Clap as hard as you can!!...nt

Sid

[peacebird]

9. Awwww... How 'cute', you have a flyswatter. Haven't you heard? The new meme is a can of bug spray

That kills the fly AND cracks the glass ceiling.... You are behind the times.

[Sheepshank]

145. Siggy lines garner attention...success.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

5. Well, she did sort of get her groove back.

She set him back 2.5 months or so in terms of the spread when Biden announced he wasn't in and the Republicans gifted her by proclaiming that Benghazi was all about partisan politics. Still, Biden had to decide sooner or later, and better then than hanging on til the last possible filing date. Most of the folks who liked his politics were always going to be establishment voters anyway. It's going to be a fight, and Bernie's going to have to be willing to throw more elbows when it comes to contrasting her long history of policy mistakes with his long history of being right on policy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. Don't look now...

Last edited Thu Nov 12, 2015, 09:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Hillary Clinton has 92% odds of winning while Sanders drops to 7%

http://predictwise.com

[BlueCaliDem]

15. Ouch!

But still, the OP and billhicks deem it justified to call Hillary Clinton supporters "bots". Really?

[riversedge]

33. CONGRATS TO HILLARY AND HER TEAM

[Starry Messenger]

8. 54/32 is only a horse race in Berniewonderlandia

I'll bet the ice cream fountains are nice though.

[Demeter]

14. Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.

Have a nice trip down memory lane!

[Starry Messenger]

31. I will. Bernie will be back in the Senate and a Democrat

will be in the White House. Sounds good to me.

[Dawgs]

54. Your scenario is impossible. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

63. Bernie won't go back to the Senate?

You're right, maybe he'll do a nice book tour and retire.

[Dawgs]

69. Maybe, but that's not the impossible part. n/t

[Rogue Democrat]

71. There is no chance at all for Clinton to win the GE

That's why the scenario is impossible.

Remove the polarizing factor, and you got Bernie and a reason to vote in the GE, since Bernie has interest not just from the left, but also from the right in the GE.

Clinton wins, all the voters that had the motivation to vote for Bernie will be long gone, unwilling to vote for the status quo.

[Evergreen Emerald]

76. Welcome to DU.

Your sentiment is hysterical.

[Starry Messenger]

94. Two words: Obama coalition.

Hillary has it, Bernie doesn't. Game over.

[artislife]

98. Do you think the minortity vote will come out in record numbers like 2008?

I can only speak from my experience, but the Latino and Pacific Islander communities here in the Greater Seattle area was very motivated with Obama. We saw him as opening the door not just for the African American community, but all of us. There was such a feeling of coalition between all the small groups trying to help their communities into a unifying group.

It was so much fun.

After he was elected, we drifted back to our issues, whether it was civil, economic or environmental ones. 8 years is a long time for a young person.

My question is do you really believe that the strength of the Obama coalition will really be repeated with Hillary?

Lots of people say how the youth won't vote but in self awareness, the minority voters are also not great at getting to the booths when there isn't an Obamalike candidate that inspires such hope and change.

When I went to el centro de la raza for dias de los muertos, I saw nothing about the elections

[Codeine]

114. Yeah, nothin' polarizing about a black guy

with an African dad and an Islamic middle name, right.

[VanillaRhapsody]

56. and NOW Bernie will be just another Democrat in the Senate!

[pinebox]

84. No Hillary will start on the same path as Romney

because she'll lose the general.

[Starry Messenger]

141. In your fanfic version of the election perhaps.

[pinebox]

144. denial is a dangerous thing bud

[Starry Messenger]

146. LOL. You must be a satire account.

[pinebox]

147. nope.

[bravenak]

152. YES

[AgingAmerican]

135. Did you say that to Obama supporters in 2008?

Or were you attacking Hillary back then?

[Starry Messenger]

140. I was an Obama supporter in 2008.

I am a Hillary supporter in 2015-16.

[femmedem]

10. I'm rec'ing for the news, but really wish the OP didn't use the term Hillbots.

We're Democrats deciding who our nominee is, and insulting the other candidates' supporters sure won't win them over to ours--or even persuade anyone who remains undecided.

But yes, it's good to see Bernie's numbers rising again!

[RiverLover]

13. Rec'g with reservations...me too. Its fantastic news!, but delivered in a stink bomb.

Maybe the OP will change it. That would be classy.

[Demeter]

12. Ssssh! Don't want to wake the colicky baby now. We just got her to sleep.

[DanTex]

16. LOL.

[Capt. Obvious]

17. Please change your title to remove the insult

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. " O K "

[gordyfl]

21. A Message to Hillary

A message to Hillary Clinton ---> "Be careful not to measure the drapes before the first vote is cast."

[KingCharlemagne]

23. Or in pictorial form:

[riversedge]

39. Hillary and her team are working hard to get the votes and not counting

any chick's till hatched.

[VanillaRhapsody]

58. Message to gordyfl

[JonLeibowitz]

83. Thanks for that substantive, as always

[riversedge]

24. Sanders has plateaued out this fall.

He can't seem to average out past 30-35 pts.

[JoePhilly]

30. Some of these folks think Bernie's candidacy ...

... is just like Obama's, while also firmly believing (and claiming) that Bernie is really nothing like Obama.

But they don't seem to notice the disconnect.

Yet.

[riversedge]

36. "Yet" is the key word.

[treestar]

41. good point!

The posters who criticize Obama all the time are generally the ones supporting Bernie. The general theme is that Obama was not the Savior after all, but Bernie is! So they want the campaign to go along the same lines. After 7 years of going on about how Obama disappointed them and is just another politician. But Bernie is special ya know, even after more years in the Senate. The Senate of all places. Yeah that's where the ordinary people end up.

[NanceGreggs]

138. And let's not forget ...

... that Elizabeth Warren was THE saviour - until she wasn't.

[yardwork]

155. I have given up trying to figure out why Obama was golden but Hillary is trash.

Their policies appear to be virtually identical.

I think it's because of irrational hatred of Hillary, some of it because she's a woman.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. It doesn't even rise to the transitive argument fallacy because none of the elements are there.

EOM

[JoePhilly]

51. Exactly.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. You are a sports fan like me.

The transitive argument goes like this...

If A beat B and B beat C, A could beat B and C.

In this instance A didn't even beat B.

[artislife]

99. Some people think Hillary's candidacy...

...is just like Obama's while not realizing that the "coalition" will not be there in record numbers like he had.

They don't see the enthusiasm for Bernie as a real thing. Okay...

[JoePhilly]

102. I have not heard any one say that.

However, her positions are very similar to his and most who support him, also support her.

She does very well with POC, and she'll do very well with women of all ages.

And, she'll be running against an opponent that is far crazier than McCain or Romney, which also helps her.

And in 2008, she learned the importance of having a ground game in the primaries. Over looking that allowed Obama to eek out the win. I doubt she'll make that mistake again.

[artislife]

103. Look up thread for an example

I don't bookmark what people say so I can not display the examples. But I wouldn't count on that coalition (I am Latina and worked with other minorities in the Seattle area to get Obama into the White House) to come out with nearly the enthusiasm that was generated in 2008.

I also think it is rather strange that in recognizing one candidate's coalition while not recognizing the other's.

I know Hillary has huge numbers in the Latino, African American and Women demographics. But I also know the age of those demographics and ease in counting those particular voters is in play.

It reminds me of watching the salmon runs. You know they should be at this stream going up at this time, so the scientist watch at a particular place and time, meanwhile because the rivers are warmer (due to very little ice cold snow pack melting) the salmon are changing their behavior. The scientist may note the differences in numbers but they haven't figured out where the rest of the salmon have gone.

[JoePhilly]

119. Salmon runs???

To win the primary, you have to win specific states. Same with the general.

If you have a good ground game, you know exactly where the "salmon" are. And Hillary is building up a very strong ground game in the critical states.

[artislife]

120. If you are looking in expected places and not noting the overall numbers.

[Number23]

134. You always nail it. And you did so perfectly here

Nailed the almost pitiful cognitive dissonance between people who scream with joy that "Bernie is no Obama" but still think that he has Obama's chances and will bring in Obama's diverse supporters.

[mucifer]

60. I never thought Bernie could ever poll 35 and I've always been planning to vote for him.

I'm amazed his numbers are as good as they are. I still believe Hillary will win the nomination. But, Bernie has my vote.

[AgingAmerican]

136. We have heard this every month since May

It's a Hillbot tradition.

[Orrex]

25. If "Hillbots" is an acceptable term for you, are the following also fair game?

Sanders' Kernels
Painful Berning Sensations
Crash-and-Berners
Rug Berners
Sick Berns
After Berners
Bridge Berners
Berning During You're In Nation
Minor Berns
Total Bernouts
Bernt Offerings
Back Berners
Berned Beyond Recognition
Donkey Oaties

Let me know which you'd prefer. Thanks!

[lisby]

42. Bravo n/t

[Orrex]

49. LOL

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. I kinda like Rug Berners.

Yeah, I like that one.

[Orrex]

48. My personal favorite is "Donkey Oaties."

It neatly encapsulates Democratic windmill-tilting IMO.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. You missed an obvious one but my stellar character prevents me from hurling epithets at my...

You missed an obvious one but my stellar character prevents me from hurling epithets at my detractors.

[Orrex]

45. LOL. I deliberately omitted at least one, to preserve a sense of mystery.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Here we go again...

Last edited Thu Nov 12, 2015, 09:26 AM - Edit history (1)

Don't look now Hillbots, but Bernie's poll numbers are at record highs, and continue to climb!

Easily lost in the flurry of news stories and posts claiming that Hillary has got her groove back, is the fact that Bernie has gained just as much support as Hillary these past few weeks, and is in fact now at record high numbers nationally. Hillary on the other hand has merely recovered some of the support she lost over the summer.

-reformist2

I will revive the challenge that causes my nemeses so much apoplexy. If anybody is so detached from reality to bet me on the outcome of the primary and Hillary Clinton loses I will give the person with whom I wagered one thousand dollars to do with as he or she pleases. To demonstrate that I am not in this for pecuniary gain or filthy lucre I will donate all my winnings to charity when Hillary wins the primary.

When Hillary wins the primary we can go double or nothing on the general.

[FloridaBlues]

28. Sorry but Bernie has flattened out for the most part and can't get above 33_35%

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. I would take the under, nationally...

Too early in the morning to go state by state.

[beam me up scottie]

34. This is good news but I won't rec because of your use of the word Hillbot.

Please edit your title so we can enjoy the thread without the unnecessary insult.

[Darb]

35. Whatever you say.........

Berndicks.

[bunnies]

106. Berndicks? Is that the opposite of...

Hillholes? Just curious.

edit: sorry. I misspelled your insult to Bernie supporters.

[stone space]

126. Jury Results from Juror #4

Automated Message

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service







On Thu Nov 12, 2015, 08:14 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Whatever you say.........
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=797776

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Dicks.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Nov 12, 2015, 08:37 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A bit over the top but so was the term 'Hillbots'

Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: OK, I'll vote to hide "dicks". Now, will somebody please call me to jury duty on the "bots" OP?


Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh, please! Another frivolous alert.

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This comment seems no less juvenile than many posted by both sides, although I sense that Sanders' fans are somewhat less strident overall than Clinton's. Perhaps my age, 77, has mellowed my reaction to such "insults." Thin-skinned folks probably shouldn't get too deep into the political jousting field.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Martin Eden]

37. Hillbots?

Enough of the name-calling.

And to tell you the truth, I've had enough of all these in-your-face polling newsflashes by both sides. There hasn't even been a single primary yet, ferfucksakes.

I support Bernie over Hillary for a number of reasons and I've had major disagreements with Hillary supporters who I think have been irrational and close-minded, but we really need to win this in the realm of ideas not playground taunts.

[lisby]

40. You just lost any respect I might have

for your position by referring to those who favor the other candidate as "Hillbots." Argue the merits of whichever candidate you favor, but we are all supposed to be on the same side here, and whichever candidate gets the nomination, we must work together to support a democrat in the White House. Fomenting hatred between us is not good, not right, and not likely to lead to the goal we ultimately want.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. Res ipsa loquitur

You just lost any respect I might have for your position by referring to those who favor the other candidate as "Hillbots.

You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

-Matthew 7:16

[riversedge]

66. CONGRATS TO HILLARY AND HER TEAM

[NCTraveler]

53. Hill it here.

Extremely strong numbers for Clinton. The trends have been really solid for the last month for her. Great news for all of us. It appears from polling as though the voters are rallying around her.

[treestar]

57. record highs?

If 33 % is a record high then 55% percent is to sneeze at?

[SmittynMo]

59. Sticks and stones....

But names will never hurt me.

Grow up people. I am shocked as to how many people are offended by 1 word. Yeah, the word selection could have been better, but so what. Why make such a big deal of it?

The fact of the matter is it's way too early, 355 days to go.

So, if you don't like the 1 word, "move on, there's nothing to see here".

[brooklynite]

64. 355 days? Try 90...

First voting is Feb 1 in Iowa. Followed by Feb 9 in New Hampshire. By March (Super Tuesday), the nomination could be mathematically over.

[SmittynMo]

67. Wonderful

Personally I can't wait. And since time is on our side, I'm sure it will play well for the GOP to destroy her. They hate her with a passion. And she's got a lot to go after, whereas Bernie is the only trustworthy candidate out there, on both sides.

What's the saying? "And the truth shall set you free". Think about it.

[brooklynite]

79. Sadly, the "hating with a passion" thing seems to be coming from over here...

...are there Republicans who "hate" Clinton? Sure; they're the same people who hated the "Muslim" Barack Obama and will hate the "Socialist" Bernie Sanders. But there are middle of the road Republicans and Independents (think suburban women) who won't be turned off by a mainstream Democrat and may want to support the election of the nation's first Woman President.

But since we're still in the Primaries, feel free to show me where that Clinton "hate" is going to crop up. Right now, Bernie is ahead in exactly -1- State (NH) and by a mere 1.3% on average. Where else is the revolution going to break out?

[SmittynMo]

88. Believe what you want

The actual numbers on election day will prove it all.

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. Oh so you think the Republicans do not hate HIM?

and everything he stands for with a white hot poker????



I guess IF Sanders were to win....the Republicans would be soooo impressed....they would never attack him and just get out of his way and give him everything he wants on a silver platter!

[SmittynMo]

85. I'm not saying that

They are going after Hillary because of the polls and her shaded past. If the numbers were reversed, they'd be after Bernie.

The difference?

Bernie's closet has NO skeletons. Clinton has 5 luxurious walk in closets to choose from. It will be fun watching them attack Bernie, with absolutely no substance behind their claims.

[VanillaRhapsody]

89. they have ALWAYS gone after Clinton....and guess what....she is still standing...

That's WHY they hate her so much.....she perseveres!



and Bernie has NO skeletons???



How about that bit of "porn" he used to write about women and 3 men or some such...



Believe this...EVEN saintly Sanders has skeletons...

[SmittynMo]

91. She's a master at

bullshit, fluff, and never answering a tough question. Hell, look at who her adviser is.

They both know how to talk the talk. And I have to admit they're pretty good.

And then you have to bring up the porn stuff. OMG, grow up. Is that the best you can come up with?

There isn't enough room on this page to list your candidates shady past.

[VanillaRhapsody]

95. SHE has had them crafting faux controversies against her for 30 yrs...she is STILL here

They haven't even started on Sanders yet...


Are you saying he DIDN'T write that??? YOU wanted skeletons...there is one! If you think Republicans would overlook it...YOU have another think coming!

[SmittynMo]

96. I'm positive they will go after him

But for a paper he wrote 50 years ago? He's already explained it. End of story. NEXT!!!!

[2pooped2pop]

153. and she has zero chance to get anything

through without giving the republicans everything they want and giving us crumbs, because they hate her almost as much as they hate Obama. Bernie has a chance to get some republican support and get the people to throw out republicans and corporate owned dems.

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. wonder if the same folks who used the term "Obamabots"....are the same ones using the term "Hillbots

things that make you go hmmmmm!

[stonecutter357]

61. typical Bernie supporter.

Nov 11, NYTimes/CBS new Dem poll: Clinton 52, Sanders 33, O'Malley 5%

[firebrand80]

65. I still don't believe Bernie can win

But I have to say, he's far exceeded my expectations.

[SmittynMo]

70. Far enough to get your vote? n/t

[firebrand80]

75. I doubt this primary will still be going in April

when I get my turn to vote. If it is, that means something big and unexpected has happened along the way.

That being the case, I'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[72DejaVu]

68. Don't look now, but temperatures have been in the 60s in Maine this week

I guess that means there won't be winter this year.

[ismnotwasm]

72. Congratulations Senator Sanders..

[riversedge]

78. Would the term "Berniebots" be allowed in an OP headline??

[SmittynMo]

90. I don't see why not

Otherwise, this post would be locked out by now.

[ljm2002]

123. I've seen "Bernistas" used more than once...

...so I think the answer to your question is yes, it would be allowed -- although of course, it's always a crapshoot with alerts and juries.

I wish people would resist the urge to use these sorts of terms against one another.

In any case, I do think the poll is interesting and pretty good for Bernie. Certainly not bad for Hillary either.

[reformist2]

142. Sure - it's kind of amusing! I mean we can tease each other a little, can't we???

[Jarqui]

80. I want Bernie to win but

"the fact that Bernie has gained just as much support as Hillary these past few weeks, and is in fact now at record high numbers nationally"

I'm not so sure that's an accurate claim.

At the end of September, Clinton was +13.2 over Bernie. Now, Clinton is +21.6 over Bernie. So Bernie hasn't gained as much support as Hillary over the past few weeks. Bernie is at an all time high in part because Biden dropped out to provide a boost. But Hillary got more of Biden's supporters than Bernie did (which roughly explains Clinton's surge/gain).
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

The start of the 2016 primaries is roughly a month later than 2008. So it could be argued that Clinton's lead of +25.6 on Oct 12, 2008 over Obama or her lead of +23.0 on Nov 12, 2008 has Bernie closer to Clinton than Obama was at the same time during their contest - if your looking for something factually positive to grab on to.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html#charts

I think what we have to watch closely is the early Feb 2016 primary states: Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada & South Carolina. Bernie's doing well in NH already. Iowa and Nevada are caucuses of some kind so he could surprise like Obama did there (though you can be sure Clinton will be much more vigilant and determined at the caucus level this time around). In order to close on Clinton and legitimately contend, he's going to need some good early showings to prove he might be able to beat her. Like Obama, that will get him media coverage and momentum if he can pull that off and then we'll have a real contest. Hopefully, something like that happens to close the gap.

[brooklynite]

93. NV has a strong Party organization built up by Harry Reid...

(remember, that "50 State Strategy" that everyone thinks is so valueable?)

...which will help turn out a winning vote for Clinton.

[Jarqui]

100. Hillary won the state in 2008 BUT .... (as you say ..)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nv/nevada_democratic_caucus-236.html

she lost the Nevada delegates contest 11-14 to Obama:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

Hillary's biggest lead on Obama in South Carolina was around +18
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/sc/south_carolina_democratic_primary-234.html
She lost the state to Obama -28.9.

This time, Hillary is +46.9 over Sanders in SC - WAY ahead of where she was in 2008
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/sc/south_carolina_democratic_presidential_primary-4167.html
That lead is so massive, it's hard to imagine Bernie catching up. 30% of the population is black and Bernie isn't doing nearly as well with Blacks as Obama did.

So if Harry can tilt NV Hillary's way along with her winning the state vote again like she did last time against Obama (she's +26.5 right now) and SC goes the way it's looking to go, Bernie pretty much has to get Iowa and hang on to New Hampshire. Since September, Sanders pretty much lost his 12 point lead in New Hampshire and has fallen from a tie to down 24 points in Iowa. So the recent trends probably have to turn around in those states or he's toast. If you want Bernie to win, that's where he could really use some help.

[Jarqui]

125. Further to the above

go to this link and put in an Iowa or New Hampshire postal code
https://go.berniesanders.com/page/event/search_simple
and notice 3 digits worth of Sanders events going on.

Go to SC or NV postal codes and the number of events is dramatically less.

Some of that may be that Bernie is in NH right now and they don't look very far into the future but I suspect some of it is that their focus is on Iowa and New Hampshire.

[Nitram]

81. Record highs? That is an improvement. nt

[procon]

86. Does he have the most delegates needed to win the nomination yet? nt

[artislife]

92. Have the primary votes started? nt

[procon]

112. Since the majority of primary polling stats still favors Clinton,

and the powerful bloc of Superdelegates are already making commitments to her, that's not even a relevant question. Here, I'll ask it again; can Sanders tilt the math in his direction with the majority of Superdelegates, and how can he get POC voters -- and no Dem can win without them -- to pick him over Clinton to win state primaries?

Clinton still has the lead, so it remains a pipedream no matter how much I might wish that the numbers added up differently. No matter how much I might hope that Sanders has a secret plan to get all the delegate endorsements he would need to win the nomination, the math just doesn't look good.

[artislife]

115. It is a relevant question in a democracy.nt

[procon]

118. And a democracy is nothing without the math that determines the victor. nt

[artislife]

121. Still, we have to vote FIRST. nt

[procon]

122. You're killing your own argument here.

Now you're back to square one with state polling showing voters currently favor Clinton in the primaries. The math just won't go away.

[artislife]

127. No I am not

You are fortune telling.

[procon]

129. So your best rejoinder is down to a personal attack now?

This is a perfect illustration on the whole point of this topic.

I'm unaligned and although I really like some of what Sanders says, I still have many unanswered questions, and the lack of details is a significant concern, not to mention the whole nominating convention math problem. You're a Sanders fan, but if the candidate can't provide strong answers, then neither can you, and I accept that without casting blame.

I'm still arguing the math issue because it won't go away, even when you start with the personal attacks, the math remains Sander's damning Albatross. If you can't acknowledge that is a valid problem, then how are you going to help, or at least insist that your candidate make better efforts to improve? If he can't do better, if he doesn't have a plan to raise his numbers in all these key areas, you both will need a come up with a different retort, yeah?

[artislife]

130. personal attack? !

Good luck with that.



I must admit this tactic is not an original move.

That is also not a personal attack. They both are observations on actions and are a comment on them.

[AzDar]

87. Bernie!!

[Nitram]

101. Don't look now, Bernbot, but Clinton's ahead.

Glad to know you're optimistic - but this "Hillbot" shit is so adolescent.

[George II]

104. Also lost in the flurry is that Clinton's poll numbers are rising at a faster rate:

[MineralMan]

105. Hillbots? Really?

Do you suppose that kind of rhetoric will gain new supporters for your favored candidate? Do you care? I'm always surprised when people who are supporting a trailing candidate insult supporters of the leading candidate.

I can't see how that works to benefit your cause, frankly.

[Historic NY]

107. Yeah okay........54.2 Hillary & 32.6 BS....

Hillary +21.6

[ColesCountyDem]

111. I'm a Bernie supporter, but I think the term 'Hillbot' is both tasteless and disrespectful. n/t

[Beausoir]

116. He is unelectable. Never gonna happen. Ever.

[cascadiance]

131. Just like Obama was "unelectable" with LOWER numbers. Never happened I guess then too!!!

[Beausoir]

133. Bernie Sanders is no Obama. It will never happen. Ever. Take it to the bank. Unelectable.

[cascadiance]

137. Yep, Bernie is "no Obama". He likely will be seen as more trustworthy than Obama...

... who ran nebulously on things like "renegotiating NAFTA", which translated didn't mean taking it down, but putting something worse like TPP which is NAFTA on steroids in its place. Obama was just a bit more nebulous about what was really "hope and change" that had people hoping it was better than some of the things that Hillary was more vocal about like her more hawkish stances on military action in the middle east as well as being anti-American worker with her public support for H-1B visas, which she's careful not to try to talk about now. Voters I think this time around will appreciate that Bernie doesn't back away from issues like these and has been far more consistent than Hillary has been on them for a longer period of time than either Hillary or Obama have been.

Yep, I get it that your a mouthpiece for the corporate serving elements of the Democratic Party that have the talking points of keep trying to make Bernie out as "unelectable" with absolutely NO basis for that conclusion, especially when Bernie has better numbers than Obama did at this point of the election. Obama didn't get rallies of 28,000 attendees in Oregon before primary season like Bernie has here. I think he might have gotten something like 9k at a venue here then, but no where NEAR the excitement that Bernie has here now. Yes, he later got 80,000 in Portland during primary season when people wanted to see him win over Hillary, but that was after primary season was well underway and it was a battle then.

[Beausoir]

148. Bernie is unelectable. Hillary is by far the better candidate. Time to deal with it.

Bern has nebulous "let's give everything to everybody for free!" ideas that are just like Trump. Unsound, unrealistic and unelectable.

You'll see...very soon.

[cascadiance]

150. Bernie being "unelectable" is YOUR *OPINION*! Deal with it!!

Time to deal with Americans getting fed up with the corporate takeover of America. Not sure why there are those here who feel that is such a good thing. Ideas that Bernie has are more like FDR's than Hillary's are, which WERE SOUND AND REALISTIC, and rescued our country from financial disaster. It's time for the economic royalists as FDR called them, but too many of today's "Democrats" worship, to recognize when there are going to be people in power to "take them on" the way that FDR did then!

[840high]

151. I consider that a good thing.

[tblue]

117. Please don't call them Hillbots

and please don't taunt people.

I'm passionately supporting Bernie but calling other people any unwelcome name doesn't help anybody.

That said, GO BERNIE!!!

[Persondem]

139. Hillbots eh? Looks like you're pushing more BS from the BS-ers. (2 can do the "name" crap)

Since the middle of Sept. Clinton has gain 12 points while Sanders has gained only 5. Both got a post Biden drop bounce, but Clinton got a greater increase due to her presidential performances at the 1st debate and the Benghazi hearings.

[Beacool]

143. Hillbots? Are we on a RW site?

Try growing some class.

[Tipperary]

149. Hillbots??

[ucrdem]

154. Yes he's been winning in all 50 states for some time now.