You must vote for Hillary or things could get much worse.

[tk2kewl]

On the other hand you could vote for Bernie and things might get better.

[Dawgs]

1. I think of it as, vote Hillary or the Republicans and things stay the same.

Just a repeat of the last 35 years.

Or, vote for Bernie and show the world that things could be a lot better.

[antigop]

3. some people benefit from the status quo

and some people haven't been harmed (yet)

[Dawgs]

9. Yep.

[Hortensis]

52. How can anyone not know by now that the entire GOP lineup

falls somewhere along the strong-right to extreme-right spectrum?

They are trying to woo right-wing and independent voters by spouting strong strains of authoritarianism, nationalism, ethnocentrism, theocracy, and fascism.

That's how far right conservatives have moved over the past 35 years.

[randys1]

5. So under no circumstances will you support the Democratic Party if Hillary is the nominee?

[tk2kewl]

6. Way to put words in someone's mouth

[Dawgs]

10. No. Just don't see the point.

And, I don't think she has any chance of winning if she's the nominee.

[randys1]

11. So no, you wont vote for her under any circumstances because YOU dont see the point?

This could be a lesson in how this country went straight into the arms of the American Taliban.

[Dawgs]

13. I will vote for her, but I don't see the point.

I think picking her as our nominee will guarantee a Republican victory. That's the lesson you should learn.

[brush]

20. The American people, on the whole, are not that crazy to vote in a repug clown . . .

anymore. Let me give you a stat given out in last night's recap of the repug debate.

In 1988 George HW Bush won the presidency with just a hair under 60% of the white vote — he won handily.

Things have changed though.

In 2012 Mitt Romney won that same percentage of the white vote but President Obama beat him handily. The point being — with our country's changing demographic and aging out of the repug base, there just aren't enough conservative white voters to deliver a victory to a Republican presidential candidate anymore.

Let's break it down. The repugs have foolishly alienated the Latino/a American vote even more than in 2012, you know they won't get the African American vote, nor the gay, progressive white nor Asian American vote or women — the Obama coalition.

There just aren't enough right wing whites left for them to win so I don't get how you think that Clinton won't win if she gets the nomination?

[Dawgs]

21. Maybe because Clinton isn't Obama, and..

Last edited Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:02 PM - Edit history (1)

AA's voted in very high numbers for Obama. I don't think that will be the case with Hillary.

Her disapproval's are extremely high for someone that is so well known.

She does not create nearly as much enthusiasm as Obama.

She's an establishment status-quo candidate. Democrats, like her, have done very poorly in recent elections.

Republicans are extremely motivated to beat her.

A good portion (20%-30%) of Democrats are not excited about her voting for her.

[brush]

22. None of that equates to a repug win though

You keep claiming there isn't enthusiasm for Clinton yet her lead keeps expanding in the polls.

How is that not enthusiasm?

And you ignored the stat of Poppa Bush's 60% white vote base just not being large enough anymore with the country's browning demographic.

Come on, let's deal with reality not wishful thinking.

The Dem nominee will win.

[Dawgs]

25. One, being picked in a poll is not enthusiasm.

And two, the white voting base will be plenty for the Republicans if the Democratic stays home.

We'll find out who's opinion is right if Hillary is the nominee. Can't know until the election in 2016.

[brush]

29. Dems have a history of turning out for the presidential election cycle

The Dem nominee will win.

And FYI, the SCOTUS nominations are at stake. Let's not become PUMAS and refuse to vote for the Dem nominee because he/she isn't your preferred candidate.

None of us here on this board wants to live a good part of the rest of our lives with even more Scalias on the Supreme Court.

[pengu]

37. For Obama, and not nearly as much the second time

Establishment candidates like Gore and Kerry lost.

[brush]

42. "Lost" is not really accurate

The repugs have not won a presidential election legitimately since HW Bush won in 1988.

They stole 2000 in Florida (remember Katerine Harris, Jeb Bush and the Brooks Brothers riot) and 2004 in Ohio (remember Ken Blackwell doing Rove's bidding).

Those days are past though as witnessed by all who saw Carl Rove's meltdown on FOX on election night in 2012. He thought his fix had worked again in Ohio. It didn't make the race close enough for them to steal it for Romney, thank God.

[pengu]

45. Keep telling yourself that

[brush]

48. My point is that repugs have not actually "won" since 1988

Let me give you a stat given out in last night's recap of the repug debate.

In 1988 George HW Bush won the presidency with just a hair under 60% of the white vote — he won handily.

Things have changed though.

In 2012 Mitt Romney won that same percentage of the white vote but President Obama beat him handily. The point being — with our country's changing demographic and aging out of the repug base, there just aren't enough conservative white voters to deliver a victory to a Republican presidential candidate anymore.

Let's break it down. The repugs have foolishly alienated the Latino/a American vote even more than in 2012, you know they won't get the African American vote, nor the gay, progressive white nor Asian American vote or women — the Obama coalition.

There just aren't enough right wing whites left for them to win so your saying that the "establishment candidate" lost in 2000 and 2004 is not just inaccurate but besides the point in 2016 America with it's browning demographic.

The Dem nominee will win whether it's what you call the "establishment candidate" or Sanders.

You need to keep telling yourself that the SCOTUS nominations outweigh being petulant because one's preferred candidate might not get the Dem nomination.

[pengu]

55. Uh huh

I've been hearing about the demographic wave that will give dems ever-lasting power since the 90s. I'm telling you, you're whistling past the graveyard.

[brush]

74. Guess you haven't seen the latest polls

Both Sanders and Clinton whip all of the repug candidates easily with projected voter turnout.

[Dawgs]

53. You better hope the Dems come out. I don't think they will.

And, I didn't say I wasn't voting for Hillary.

[brush]

75. Why would you think that?

Historically Dems always turn out for the presidential election cycle.

[Dawgs]

84. I don't think Hillary can overcome some things.

- Her disapproval's are really high (>50%) and will probably go up when she's the nominee.
- Unlike Obama, she doesn't inspire enthusiasm from millennials or independents.
- She will do well with AA's, but not as much as a lot of people think.
- The Republicans will do everything possible to beat her.
- 20-30% of Democrats don't like her policies or how she has flipped on some big issues.
- She supported and voted for the Iraq War, which is a pretty big deal among many Democrats.
- She's running as the status-quo establishment candidate, which is not good if you look at recent elections.
- DWS and the DNC aren't exactly the best at getting Democrats to the voting booth.
- Voters are currently apathetic about politics in general. Voter apathy won't be a problem for the Republicans.
- And, wrong as it is, many might not want a woman as President.

[brush]

87. Copy and paste much?

There are lists just like that that list Sanders' alleged weaknesses also, i.e.:

- The Kochs will spend billions to defeat a socialist
- He won't do well in the AA community
- Repugs will do everything possible to beat her.
- Voters are currently apathetic
- He's weak on gun control
- DWS and the DNC aren't exactly the best at getting Democrats to the voting booth
- Most Latino Americans haven't evey heard of him
- He comes from a small state with hardly any electoral votes

And several of your list apply to Bernie also.

So according to your logic, Sanders couldn't over come these things either.

I disagree though as the latest polls show that both Bernie and Hillary will beat all the repug candidates handily.

It's just a matter of who wins our nomination.

[Dawgs]

91. No. My list came straight from my own mind.

And your list doesn't make any sense.

- Socialism is only a bad word to Republicans. Most young people already find it more appealing than capitalism.
- Why wouldn't someone that's fought for AA's his entire life do well in the AA community.
- He's not a her but that would be the same for any Democratic candidate.
- Voters are apathetic towards those they see as the status-quo. Bernie is NOT the status-quo.
- He's not weak on gun control at all. He gets a D- from the NRA and he supports all of the gun control legislation that every other Democrat supports.
- Agree. The DNC is terrible right now.
- Latino Americans would hear of him plenty if we had more debates.
- Not sure how him coming from a small state matters, but whatever.

Wrong about Sanders electability in the GE vs. Clinton.

- He would do quite well with millennials, indys, and even some republicans. And, he's not a status-quo candidate.

Hillary may win but it ain't going to be easy. I still predict that she won't.

[JonLeibowitz]

24. Careful

Some demented Hillary supporters are trying to entrap people into saying they won't for for a Republican, oops i mean Hillary, so they can ban you for violating TOS. Just be aware of their shameless tactics.

[Buzz Clik]

36. Goddamned Hillary supporters!!! Sanders supporters would never, ever pull that trick!!!11

[JonLeibowitz]

40. I can only speak for myself, but i would never do that n/t

[Buzz Clik]

41. Hm. About that claim:

Some demented Hillary supporters are trying to entrap people into saying they won't for for a Republican, oops i mean Hillary, so they can ban you for violating TOS. Just be aware of their shameless tactics.

[JonLeibowitz]

43. So calling out what has become a common means

To rid DU of an opponent's supporters is the same as calling some of these people out on their tactics?

[Buzz Clik]

44. No idea what you just said. However, your claim that you only speak for yourself...

... is pretty much bullshit.

[JonLeibowitz]

49. I flubbed that reply. Oops

I do only speak dor myself, that i would not employ such tactics . It is proven fact that some people are employing the tactics of which i speak.

[mother earth]

32. Why isn't waiting until after the nomination the way to go? Who's afraid? Only one

person. Generally, a call for unity comes from the person who doesn't win the election, these days HRC supporters are SOOOOO fearful, they want allegiance. Pardon all of us if this seems a little self-serving for HRC and self-defeating for Bernie...the clown car is imploding, why so glum, HRC??? Cuz she can't win in the general? Seems the DLC is worried, as they continue to marginalize Bernie and MSM complies, all for the good of the corporate sponsors.

[Buzz Clik]

38. Damned straight! Hillary and her worshippers are scared to death of their 25 point lead.

[mother earth]

88. Ah...the imaginary lead promoted by the corporate sponsored MSM...un huh...the ones

fundraising for her...ain't corporate sponsorship sweet.

[Buzz Clik]

89. Dig those socialist catch phrases. I mean, we loved the polls when Bernie was surging.

Now? They're a tool of the 1%ers, the Third Way, the corporate sponsored MSM, etc.

[mother earth]

99. Have fun while you can, Turd Way is lovely illusion.

[Buzz Clik]

105. The name calling never ends.

What exactly do you stand for? Insults, disparaging comments, exclusion?

Anything positive other than "gimme free stuff"?

[artislife]

100. Here you go

This is an excellent opportunity for you to state why Bernie will be so much better. Because you support him so much. But you take the time to change the subject and ask for a loyalty statement.
If we all spent most of our time actually letting posters know the positive attributes of our self confessed choice, the GDP would be kinder.

I am not surprised by your response, however.

[Puglover]

117. This is one of the on going

comedy acts on DU. I love it.

[HassleCat]

2. I was feeling kind of glum the other day

And a friend told me, "Cheer up! Things could be worse!" So I cheered up and, sure enough, things got worse.

[Live and Learn]

4. LOL nt

[KingCharlemagne]

8. +Infinity! - nt

[closeupready]

23. lol, thanks for the chuckle

[reformist2]

7. Yep. It's the "fear" vs "hope" choice that BILL Clinton used to talk about.

"“If one candidate is appealing to your fears, and the other one's appealing to your hopes, you’d better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope!” - Bill Clinton

The irony, oh the irony...

[upaloopa]

12. Explain to me how Bernie wins against the nearly billion dollars the Kochs and others would throw

at him.

It is so easy to sit at your key board and type this simple stuff. The real world doesn't work like your fantasy does.

I mean it. Get real. Right now Bernie has about 25 to 30 % support among Dems. How does he go from here to victory in Nov 2016?

I want to know. Don't give me pie in the sky "the people will turn out once they hear him" bull shit.

Why should I bank my future on your dreams of a revolution?

[tk2kewl]

14. Ah, the pragmatic centrist

Let's stick with that, it's worked well for us the last 30 yrs

[upaloopa]

16. You can't answer me can you?

Yet you think people are going to rally behind that kind of explanation

[tk2kewl]

18. No. I am dismissing your position as more of the same

[upaloopa]

102. You can dismiss me but you can't dismiss the real world. At some point you will have to face what I

posted.

[Dawgs]

15. Hillary will not a lot more than money to overcome her popularity #'s and public apathy.

It's looking more an more like Democrats didn't learn a damn thing from recent elections.

[upaloopa]

17. You can't answer me either can you?

[Dawgs]

19. I do have an answer. I don't know.

But, I do think Bernie can bring in a lot more Indys and millennials than any other Democrat. This is pretty much a given.

As far as his popularity numbers now. Obama has similar numbers at this time in 2007. Democrats will eventually go with the nominee, as you know.

[upaloopa]

103. That popularity thing is the latest excuse. It has a stale date too

First Bernie is surging Hillary is slumping then emails with a little Benghazi thrown in for good measure.

Then internet polls then not enough millennials polled then too many seniors polled

[Dawgs]

104. I never said any of that other stuff, but keep on making up shit. n/t

[Still In Wisconsin]

122. You have been found guilty of not bowing down to Hillary and her fans.

Therefore you are not a Democrat. You are either a Socialist or a Republican. Maybe both.

Now say twenty Hail Hillarys and make a donation to your local bankster.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. Sounds soooooo easy...

[VanillaRhapsody]

63. No actually I won't just go away...

Are you going to accuse me of harrassing you next? This is still a public forum last I heard...

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. What troll?

And not going to go away no matter what you falsely accuse me of...

But name calling IS all you have at this point I suppose...

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. And perhaps YOU should.

This is still an open forum and I can express my opinions too....you just do not happen to like it.....


So why don't you just explain how easy it will be? Its not enough to complain....what is your plan to acheive your goal?

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. Still waiting....

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. Probably the same as you do...

Still waiting for this brilliant plan...

[Buzz Clik]

90. Holy crapoli. An Avid Sanders Supporter booted?

[RobertEarl]

31. the people will turn out once they hear him" bull shit.

You say it's bullshit, but then why is it the kochs will spend a billion dollars? To get their message out. Bernie can get his message out with far less spending. Heck, I'm already campaigning for him.

When Bernie wins the nomination and the billion is spent attacking him, they will be telling people about Bernie and the people will want to find out more, and when they do, they will want to vote or him.

That's how Bernie wins.

[BlueCaliDem]

83. The Kochs will spend that billion dollars to discredit him as a SOCIALIST.

They have scores of video showing him actually admit to it, too. You and I know that the "S" word is a huge no-no in America. Republicans have spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the past fifty years to demonize the word, linking an impoverished Cuba and engraving that image in the minds of most Americans.

Yeah. That'll play well with moderate Republicans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Latino Americans, and centrists Americans who might all have businesses and who don't want capitalism removed from our economic system so that the government can come in and take over. But that's what those billions of dollars of lying ads will buy the Kochs and their Republican sockpuppets for the White House. Result? President Ted Cruz.

[RobertEarl]

108. Looks like they got to you?

Looks like the koch's money has you convinced 'socialism' a dirty word. And they are so deep in your head that you even admit it on DU!!

Look, we get that you won't vote for Bernie, but it makes no sense to tell us that you are not willing to stand up for the good things socialism does for the people.

[BlueCaliDem]

110. Nope.

I'm a Social Democrat, i.e., I believe in a system that's a balance between capitalism and socialism. After all, I lived nearly twenty years in a social democracy - the Netherlands. I know the difference. So no. Koch money didn't convince me of anything other than they're the biggest, greediest welfare queens in these United States. Oh, and that I didn't think I'd abhor anyone as deeply as I abhor them.

but it makes no sense to tell us that you are not willing to stand up for the good things socialism does for the people.

I never have and I never will, and nowhere in the post you're responding to do I make that claim. But I believe in equilibrium. At the moment, the pendulum swings too much in favor of capitalism, and that's got to change. But as long as we have Teapublicans infesting the "people's House", that's going to be one tough row to hoe, and we need a Democratic Senate and a Democrat in the White House who knows how to get around those dim-bulbs in the House.

[RobertEarl]

111. Now I see why you support Hillary

Your similar politics.

Sorry BCD, your first reply was truth and this second one to me smacks of politics. Your first post was going on about how they will defeat the 'socialist' Bernie and this second one all about how you are some socialist. And I'm the queen of England.

[BlueCaliDem]

115. I support her because I'm realistic. It's difficult for you to understand because you're idealistic.

Now I see why you support Bernie - similar politics.

[Buzz Clik]

39. +1

[Happenstance24]

56. He doesn't and you shouldn't.

Period.

It's great to vote your conscience when you're winning the game but we are losing badly. State legislatures are red ville. We lose the Supreme Court and it is game over. Citizen's United will be looked back upon as the good old days. It's so easy for those with privilege to play with the future of the less fortunate but for some of us we can't afford a GOP presidency in any way, shape or form. And spare me the Hillary is GOP nonsense. They are as different as night and day.

[azurnoir]

65. so you're saying Koch wouldn't do the same to Hilary?

how's that work?

[SheilaT]

86. How much support did Barack Obama have

at this point eight years ago? He was being called unelectable back then, especially by the Hillary supporters. So why isn't she currently finishing out her second term?

[artislife]

101. votes. nt

[olddots]

26. very well put

unfortunately notthing at this time can change the course of the sold old shallow defeatists .

[quickesst]

28. Ok...

"On the other hand you could vote for Bernie and things might get better"

I don't see how things can get better with a republican in the White House.

[Ed Suspicious]

34. Good luck with that one. I'm really starting to hate this place.

[quickesst]

96. And good luck...

...with all of yours. I've never hated this place, nor anyone in it. That will not change...unless the admin suddenly goes full-on right wing on us, even if I am not part of the majority.

[jalan48]

30. Voting for Hillary is just kicking the can down the road.

Eventually Democrats will have to become Democrats again.

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. You mean like how Bernie BECAME a Democrat the

Other day?

I guess that means he just took a huge step to the Right by your standards...

[jalan48]

58. Not all Democrats are Third Way corporatists. That became the norm will Bill Clinton.

You're obviously too young to remember when there were many Democrats like Bernie. Bernie didn't leave the Party, the Party left him and many of us who agree with him.

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. Well THAT Democrat had to BECOME a Democrat..

Just like them now.....so your complaints against them NOW include him too...congratulations!

[jalan48]

64. You seem a bit confused.

Bernie's positions on the issues more clearly represent the Democrats from FDR up to the Clintons. The party has become much more conservative since 1992 and the infusion of Wall Street money.

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. He said....and I quote

"I am a Democrat NOW"


After 45 yrs of talking smack....even once saying....snd again I quote

"I would be a hypocrite to become a Democrat now..."

[jalan48]

69. Remember it's a not just a name-it's actually positions on the issues.

[VanillaRhapsody]

71. No sorry....not going to fly...

He talked smack about Dems and EVEN ran against them......so you are now painting him with your broadbrush now too....comgrats

[jalan48]

72. This isn't a sporting event-it's about positions on the issues.

Bernie's stances better represent the Democratic Party pre-Bill and Hillary Clinton.

[Still In Wisconsin]

121. Exactly. And Hillary's fans believe the Democratic Party IS Bill and Hillary Clinton

Hence, if you vote for anyone other than Hillary, you're not a Democrat.

[Nay]

50. Unfortunately, by the time the Dem leadership figures out they have to

become actual Democrats again, it will be too late. It's probably too late now (climate change, refugee millions, huge un- or underemployment, etc.) but damn, can we start somewhere, sooner?

[jalan48]

59. I agree but we can't give up the fight for a better America.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. This is like the old meme of Republicans start from asking for what they want....

DLC Dems start by asking what do the Republicans want.

[Ed Suspicious]

35. So true.

[Still In Wisconsin]

51. I will, if I must to prevent a full-on Republican administration, vote for Hillary.

I will, however, take no joy in doing so. Voting for Hillary, to me, will mean that we've already lost and I will be hoping for a better choice in four or eight years.

[Still In Wisconsin]

61. Outside of the Hillary fans on DU and my sister, the most enthusiastic description of a Hillary

can be summarized as "meh."

I hope I'm wrong, but I think Hillary would lose Florida, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina and Colorado. That, of course, would be game over, and get used to President Rubio.

[VanillaRhapsody]

80. Do you think they will endorse Sanders????

[VanillaRhapsody]

79. That explains the high poll numbers...

If thats just "meh".......Sanders is in some scary territory huh?

[Dawgs]

85. Again, picking someone in a poll does not equal enthusiasm.

Not sure why that's so hard to understand.

[Buzz Clik]

92. How does someone rate when they are NOT picked in a poll? n/t

[Dawgs]

93. I don't know. Maybe we can ask Obama.

He was losing to Hillary in the polls eight years ago. Would you say he didn't inspire enthusiasm?

But, what does that have to do with Hillary being the "meh" candidate?

[Buzz Clik]

97. Fair enough. Here's a link from the 2008 cycle:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html

Obama flipped the polls by February. We'll see how it goes this time.

[Dawgs]

98. Agree. Although, I think Hillary hangs on this time. n/t

[Still In Wisconsin]

106. Yup. Sanders' prospects not looking good.

My point was not that I think Sanders will be President. It was that I think Hillary won't.

[VanillaRhapsody]

107. So apparently you think a Republican will?

[Still In Wisconsin]

113. I do. Yes, I think a Republican will win. My hope is that we can make a dent in their majorities

in the House and especially the Senate. Tammy Duckworth and Russ Feingold are very likely winners and there could be others.

In the Presidential, I think the Repugs will eventually nominate Rubio. He's a teabagger asshole for sure, but I don't think Clinton would beat him.

I will vote for Hillary in the general election, but she does nothing to excite people who want to see business as usual in the politics of this country end. She will lose the Obama coalition... I know, I know, Obama has praised her and made her Sec. of State, and Obama's policies once in office do not differ drastically from what Hillary has put out there. But Hillary Clinton generates lukewarm enthusiasm at best among young/new voters, a segment we absolutely MUST dominate in order to win a national election. Add to that the fact that so many people just downright hate her- both on the left and the right, and often for bullshit reasons by the way.

Again, I hope I'm wrong. I hope she wins the general election, assuming (and it is probably a pretty safe assumption given her massive advantages in fundraising) that she is the nominee. I just don't think she would do much to concretely help the lower 75-90% segment of the American populace, even if she were to be elected. And by the way, I don't say any of this out of spite or to be antagonistic, I just don't think Hillary gives a damn about most of the issues I hold very dear.

[VanillaRhapsody]

114. Then you should probably read her entire record

Instead of listening to Libertarians posing as Liberal Democrats on the Internet tell you about her...then you would know you are wrong.

They have the Clinton Foundation.....because Hillary doesn't care about poor people...


..

Here lat me make it easy for you...

Http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

[VanillaRhapsody]

116. So which one are you pulling for?

since you believe one will win...surely you have a favorite...

what a mess of doom and gloom!

[Still In Wisconsin]

118. Which REPUB am I pulling for? None of the above. I can't stand any of them.

OK, cool, I'm a doom and gloomer because I don't love your candidate. I'm really a Republican because I don't like Hillary Clinton. I get it. I already told you I'm voting for her. I just don't like her. You're like my sister who told me to "shut the fuck up" when I tried telling her why I like Bernie Sanders- after she asked.

Look, Hillary can put whatever she wants on her website. She can say anything- Obama said a lot of things too. Much of what he did I liked but he was not the truly progressive President so many of us hoped for. But you can't tell me she's going to take all that money from the banksters and then turn around and attack the Wall Street oligarchy once she's elected. I'm trying to pay off a mortgage on a very modest home and somehow save enough money to send my daughters to college. Once that's done, my retirement plan basically consists of taking a large dose of nembutal, going to sleep, and dying once my working days are over. THAT is the perspective I come at this election from, and I see nothing in Hillary Clinton's track record to tell me anything will be different.

Now go ahead and send your alert.

[VanillaRhapsody]

119. then just a standard issue Curmudgeon...

gotcha!

[Still In Wisconsin]

120. Yep. I'm a curmudgeon.

Nice way to try to get the less enthusiastic to support your candidate by the way. People often come around if you insult them enough times.

[AgingAmerican]

95. It is called the 'enthusiasm gap'

Hence her inability to draw large crowds. She is running on name recognition and little else, DWS knows this and aims to keep it that way.

[VanillaRhapsody]

109. Its STILL Name Recognition!!!!!

[Agnosticsherbet]

54. I remember a Baptist minister in Oklahoma who began sermons with such statements

Of faith and fear.

[AgingAmerican]

94. Vote for Hillary and things will get worse slower than before!

[brooklynite]

112. ...or not.

Show me a case where Sanders has the organization to win a national election.