Vote for Hillary.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

All you have to do is:

Forget the wars. Forget the deaths. Forget the torture. Forget the collaboration with the Republicans. Forget the collaboration with the corporations. Forget the pursuit of whistle blowers. Forget the poor. Forget the persecuted. Forget the police state.

Again, we are told to be patient. That the other side is worse.

Again, we are told to shut up and vote for the candidate who can win and ignore their record.

And, again, we are told that "this time it will be different."

[Catherina]

1. No.

Rec'd

[senz]

18. Trying an experiment here, Catherina.

After the most recent upgrade to my browser, some photos won't show unless I right-click and choose "view photo" -- so I'm going to try to copy your excellent image here (and see if it shows on my browser):



Aw heck, Preview shows that it doesn't.

Anyway, it is perfect and I hope others can see it.

[Catherina]

21. Which browser is it?

[senz]

27. ...

With your permission, I'll PM you.

[senz]

234. Located the tech problem w/certain images.

I'd PM you, Catherina, but decided to put it out here for the benefit of those who seem to find techie things interesting (I don't, anymore).

At first I thought the problem was related to my having ad-blocked the offensive "fly swatter" animated gif that less desirable DUers had been using to express hostility/aggression against Bernie supporters who make them feel inferior. I explored that possibility for awhile but could find no direct connection.

Finally, after wandering more deeply into the code (which I presume is html) and casting about quickly and intuitively, I stumbled upon this:

The resource at https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ .... was blocked because tracking protection is enabled.

The latest update of my browser (sorry, won't name it) recently offered tracking protection, which I opted into. I had noticed that unviewable images had the "pbs.twimg.com/media" address. My browser apparently sees this location as engaging in cross-site tracking of users.

Right now it looks like I can disable it entirely or for the session. Will probably do the latter.

Okay, that's all.

[Catherina]

239. Thanks for the helpful update!

And I'm glad you worked it out.

[lewebley3]

40. Hillary will be a fantastic President: tierra is just bitter

Hillary is fighter and she will lead the Dem's well,
she is a very loyal Dem.

[senz]

53. She's bought and sold, Lew.

[PatrynXX]

60. Michael Moore figured that out long ago

hence Sicko got meds? want em cheaper? Bernie!!!

[lewebley3]

68. That is only Sanders supporters campaign rhetoric

Hillary is own person, you are not just supporting
Sanders you have become emotionally involved,
and he is only a politican.

[senz]

91. Sanders supporters don't have to overlook unthinkable behavior.

It's a distinct advantage in supporting him.

[lewebley3]

224. That is because Sanders has done nothing: He works for 1 party state:

Sanders has not been in a political fight, Sanders has not
had any hard decision to make. The population in his
state is 600,000. mostly all white and all liberal.

[senz]

238. Rightwing lie. He's been in the U.S. Congress/Senate since 1991

and all those years he has voted, promoted, fought against, filibustered, served on and chaired committees on issues of great import to this country and to the world.

He was a U.S. Congressman, a U.S. Senator. He served in D.C., not Vermont. Bernie has broad experience and has not compromised his values in all those years.

[lewebley3]

255. Vermont 600,000, 95 white and lib: Sanders has been talker only

[senz]

259. Rightwing propaganda. Really weak.

Here, enjoy these threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251796674

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128063921

[lewebley3]

260. No just facts

[cui bono]

103. You're talking a lot.

But you're not saying anything.

[BeanMusical]

166. +1

[Plucketeer]

231. +2 nt

[Plucketeer]

123. You almost got it Right

Hillary is an >owned< person. Big money owns Hillary.

[lewebley3]

223. No one owns Hillary is he own person: Union are not the 1%: They are backing Hillary

[lewebley3]

217. Hillary is her own person

[zeemike]

67. A better fighter than Obama?

Because all of this happened on his watch and we were told the GOP would not let him do anything...but Hillary will be different which implies that Obama is weak?
Or will we hear for the next 8 years that the GOP once racist is now misogynist and they won't let her do anything either?
Those excuses are wearing thin.

[lewebley3]

216. Hillary will be different, because she is different, however she is a Dem

[demwing]

70. Why would Tierra be bitter?

Do you think it was Hillary's vote for an unjust war, and the thousands of resulting deaths that made him bitter, or the hundreds of thousands of $s that Hillary has taken in "speaking fees" from the same banks that nearly destroyed our economy?

While you're thinking about that, ask yourself if those speaking fees have anything to do with Hillary's stance on Glass-Steagall?

I'm bitter too. If you're not bitter, you're not fucking paying attention.

[imthevicar]

179. Not Bitter,

But angry!

[A Simple Game]

183. Demwing please you are not being fair to Hillary.

the thousands of resulting deaths

Please give her full credit:

the hundreds of thousands of resulting deaths

There, that's more like it.

[demwing]

186. My apologies

For not correctly honoring those that died because of a lie - and the unwillingness to challenge that lie.

Thanks for the correction.

[A Simple Game]

187. No problem, I'm always happy to point out Hillary's high points in her life. n/t

[demwing]

188. Wonder what that Facebook timeline would look like? /nt

[A Simple Game]

190. Don't know about a time line but can imagine a graph of high points and low points.

It would probably would look kind of funny. All the high points would be at the bottom of the page. Then you would have to scroll down to see the low points.

Is it even possible for the high points to be below the center line?

[brush]

202. I'm still undecided but I must say, you guys are sounding like PUMAS

The SCOTUS nominations are at stake. With these virulent anti-Clinton posts I don't see how many of you will vote to keep the repugs from making those nominations if Sanders doesn't get our nomination.

[demwing]

226. #1 - Remember where the term PUMAS originated

#2 - we've been told that our votes and our voices don't matter, forgive us if we've come to believe that.

[brush]

232. Well we all know they matter in the primaries

We all have to decide what to do after that.

[A Simple Game]

240. You misunderstand the voting process. The job of the voter in a primary is to

vote for the best candidate possible. Then in the general election you will vote for the best possible candidate also. Both are important to the process.

[brush]

241. You misunderstand the purpose of this site

Guess you didn't know.

It's written in the TOS — to get Democrats elected.

[A Simple Game]

245. Are you trying to tell me Hillary isn't a Democrat?

You do know this thread was about one of the Democratic primary candidates? Thus the "Vote for Hillary." title.

But that's all right, the process is the same for Democrats and Republicans. Vote for who you think is best in your primary and then do the same in the general.

[brush]

248. WTH are you talking about?

Who said anything about Clinton not being Democrat?

[A Simple Game]

261. You were the one implying that we were not talking about Democrats. The only thing

I could assume was that you didn't realize Hillary is a Democrat.

[brush]

262. I reviewed my posts and still don't know what you're talking about

No where didn't I even remotely imply that Hillary wasn't a Democrat.

I don't get it.

[lewebley3]

215. Simple Tierre's guy is losing: She can't get what she wants!

[demwing]

225. First, Tierra is a guy

and second, I don't think either of us can speak to what Tierra wants. Why are you trying to make this a personal issue?

[lewebley3]

256. Tierra's guy" is Sanders", and Tierra wants to believe all progressive think

a like. Hillary is well liked and respected by many if not by
most progressive.

[sulphurdunn]

120. She will make the trains run on time.

[Art_from_Ark]

189. What few trains there are left

[willvotesdem]

201. A little over the top? I dislike HRC....alot but that's a little too much.

[sulphurdunn]

236. Really?

I thought it was a bit understated.

[lewebley3]

214. The Clinton's did more than that, they had one of the most

successful Administrations in history, they helped rebuild
the middle class, and left office with a surplus.

[peacebird]

136. She will be great for Wall$treet & the 1%, for the militaryindustrial companies

Not so much for We, The People

[lewebley3]

213. The unions are supporting Hillary they are not the 1%

[Indepatriot]

139. Hillary is a fighter...for the Third Way Oligarchy that has gutted the Middle Class.

[lewebley3]

212. Hillary is not a fighter oligarchy that is just Sanders supporters slander

[rhett o rick]

143. And that says it all. She is a fighter. That's what we want is a fighter. To hell with those livin

in poverty. To hell with our troops that will have to die for our pushing American Exceptionalism. To hell with our seniors living on Social Security. More money to private prisons, more money to the MIC.

" she will lead the Dem's well," Do you not recognize the split in our party? She will exacerbate the split. She won't unite us.

"she is a very loyal Dem." I guess you forgot about when she betrayed the Party and helped the REpublicons. SHE HELPED REPUBLICONS.

What issues does she support that you agree with?

[lewebley3]

211. Hillary is fighting for all American but mostly the middle class and poor

[rhett o rick]

244. She is fighting for Goldman-Sachs and the billionaires that give her money. nm

[lewebley3]

254. Sanders supporters attack only

[rhett o rick]

258. Sanders supporters want freedom and liberty. What do you want? nm

[SammyWinstonJack]

185. She is a very loyal Corporate Democrat.

Enough is Enough!

[lewebley3]

210. Just Sanders supporters bah bah bah, Just isn't true

[bvar22]

46. senz,

I see your photo perfectly.


Using Firefox, I forget which version, but I usually upgrade to the latest.

[dixiegrrrrl]

137. shows up for me, senz. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

173. Where did you get that? That is fantastic!

I'm definitely stealing that one!
Thankx!

[Catherina]

209. Yesterday's #Fightfor15 national protest.

I'm pretty sure that was Harlem, NYC. The slogan was pretty much standard in the 300 cities that held protests.

Just shows you how out of touch with normal people the great ahem self-declared hopes here are, you know the ones who can't decide between a Landrover or a BMW. Please, steal away my friend. And solidarity.

[JaneyVee]

2. Bernie voted for war and against closing GITMO.

I swear, the myth of Bernie Sanders from Bernie fans is wildly different than the reality of Bernie Sanders.

[NCTraveler]

4. Reality isn't even close to what is being sold in this op.

Truly worlds different.

[Agschmid]

5. Yup.

[JaneyVee]

14. It can't be good for the health.

[PatrynXX]

62. to be pro Hillary indeed

throwing all that hate at fellow Dems. I just throw it back. I can't deal with that sort of hate.

[Major Hogwash]

174. Your version of reality doesn't equate to Tierra's version.

So what?

[bravenak]

7. Yes.nt

[Dawgs]

9. So, forget it is then. n/t

[MohRokTah]

10. It has always been my experience that populist politicians are the worst of the lot.

Ralph Nader
Ron Paul
John Edwards.

Three populist scumbags who all ran for president multiple times.

I can NEVER trust a politician that pushes populism.

[Dawgs]

11. WTF!

I think I've seen it all. This is awesome.

[floriduck]

38. Three Corporatists that won and we lost.

Ronald Reagan
Bill Clinton
George W Bush

We'll never know how one of those populist scumbags would have done since they lost. We know how my three scumbags did because they won and we lost.

[MohRokTah]

66. Bill Clinton was a progressive, not a corporatist.

And he is no scumbag.

[Fast Walker 52]

109. riiight-- a real progressive champion

Glass-Steagel
Welfare reform
don't ask don't tell
DOMA
etc

[MohRokTah]

112. ABSOLUTELY!!! Definitely a progressive champion!!!

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

132. ...

I'm surprised that we haven't seen him in a swimsuit. I'm sure that he is soooooo dreamy.

[harun]

165. Lol, he'd never call himself Progressive.

[sulphurdunn]

121. Bill Clinton is a progressive,

and the Pope is a Protestant.

[Mnpaul]

135. He sounded just like Bernie does now

but Clinton was lying through his teeth

and people are falling for it all over again

[paleotn]

144. No, just a liar....

...ie. a consummate politician. Like Hillary today, he talked a good game....that is if you just don't look at the record.

[lewebley3]

69. Bill Clinton is not a coporatists: He was never a businessman

Clinton has been in public service, he didn't
come a rich family, he is from a very poor state.

[BeanMusical]

168. I see a little silhouetto of a man,

Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you do the Fandango?

[lewebley3]

219. You need to go get a history book on Bill Clinton is you think he is a trust baby

[Fast Walker 52]

108. oh yeah! FUCK POPULISM!

Seriously???? What the fuck is wrong with populism?

[MohRokTah]

110. I've seen too many populist politicians turn out to be scumbags. eom

[Fast Walker 52]

111. maybe it is just politicians that tend to be scumbags

[MohRokTah]

113. And the worst of the lot are the ones that push populism. eom

[Fast Walker 52]

116. it sounds like you just don't like populism

like anything, there are good and bad forms of populism. It's kind of a meaningless term really, as all politicians have to be populist to a certain extent.

[MohRokTah]

118. It has been my experience that politicians who push populism are the worst scumbags in politics. eom

[sulphurdunn]

126. It has been my experience if you aren't a populist

and call yourself a democrats that you aren't worth a pimple on a real democrat's ass.

[MohRokTah]

129. Seeing as how Sanders is not real Democrat...

your attempt at a taunt is meaningless.

[sulphurdunn]

133. I suppose that's true.

Sanders is a socialist who's running as a democrat. Clinton is a republican who's running as a democrat. Maybe everyone should vote for O'Malley?

[MohRokTah]

151. Hillary has been a Democrat her entire adult life. eom

[green917]

191. wrong

Secretary clinton was a Goldwater girl! She grew up as a Republican. As to her being a "true Democrat":

And you shall know them by their deeds (or however the verse goes).

[MohRokTah]

192. She was not an adult then.

She has been a Democrat her entire adult life.

[SwampG8r]

197. Was she an adult at Wellesley?

She was president of the young Republicans there.
Are you calling Wellesley coeds children?

[green917]

208. could have fooled me

With the way she voted as a senator!

[green917]

263. she was 17

Maybe not technically an adult, but old enough to know what she was doing!

[imthevicar]

180. You Know your Right.

Sanders Isn't a third way Democrat. He's a Democrat In the noble Tradition Of FDR! You third Graders Oops I meant Third Way folks Threw Us Overboard 25 years ago! For Mr.Clinton. (Another one who could talk the talk, but not walk the walk.) But Now we are coming to Take Our Party back from the Lying Thieves, who threw in the towel all those years ago to become GOP Lite. We are gonna return the party of the people back to the People! So it's ether Help us as you help yourselves too, or get the Hell out of the Way as this train is gonna roll over you!

[Betty Karlson]

172. And what about the ones who push

* private prisons
* the war on drugs
* jobs shipped to overseas
* war
* inequality under the law, as recently as 2013
* income disparity
* even less oversight over racheteering banks

Those are the ones I never trust.

[DianeK]

229. yeah MohRokTah!

To hell with the people!

[artislife]

20. They are just the same

[daleanime]

37. Of course they are....

don't you know Hillary is Bernie 2.0?


And yes, definitely

[lewebley3]

42. Ageed: Sanders is a talker: Hillary is a worker

[Bubzer]

49. ...

[imthevicar]

176. Brilliant!

[Bubzer]

203. ...

[BeanMusical]

169. Bwahahaah!

[imthevicar]

177. LOL! don't you mean

You are Bass Akwards! Bernie Walks the Walk! HRC as far as the tpp goes Barely Talks the Talk!

[lewebley3]

218. Sanders has only worked for a small state (population 600,000)

He didn't decide to put himself out as leader until he
was 73. He just sat in Senate writing bills that
went knowhere.

[PatrynXX]

61. right what myth already know that

do'h.. strange people pushing fake myths

[gregcrawford]

64. Oh, do go on...!

I am most curious to see what your perception of "reality" is.

Sanders is one of my senators. I've met Bernie and I have spoken with him. At my request, he successfully intervened with the VA on behalf of a neighbor's son who was being denied benefits for PTSD, so I KNOW him to be a man of his word with integrity beyond reproach, which few in that cesspool of iniquity called Congress can claim. I have followed his career closely since the late seventies, so I do hope you have facts you can cite to back up your version of "...the reality of Bernie Sanders."

[beerandjesus]

199. Be patient, they have to go over to hillaryclintonsupporters.com

...to find out what today's game plan is!

Most likely though, it'll be crickets--that's what you always get when you ask for facts.

[JDPriestly]

75. Please tell us the numbers or names of the bills that you say that Bernie voted for.

I've seen a lot of misrepresentation about Bernie's statements and votes by Hillary fans.

What are you referring to?

If it is war funding, I want to read the text of the bill.

Thank you for backing up your claim. Let's see precisely what you are talking about.

[MrMickeysMom]

160. Lots of horse shit.... and, It's getting deeper.....

... with every single one of your laughable posts. I would advise you to quit stirring the brew because it stinks to high heaven, but you obviously have to keep piling it higher and deeper.

You excel at this stuff.

[Jester Messiah]

163. Liar. [nt]

[kenfrequed]

243. Or maybe

That progressives are already realists and that we are willing to compromise with some of Bernie's votes but are NOT willing to go as far to the economic right to compromise with Hillary.

The illogic of trying to accuse us of not being "pure enough" when it comes to Bernie's record is absolutely staggering.

[Agschmid]

3. No one is asking you to forget anything.

You should vote for who you want to vote for.

[Old Codger]

33. You Bet

selective memory is always best memory

[lewebley3]

43. The Selective memory is from Sanders people: The forget Hillarys work

[demwing]

72. Wall Street has made Hillary Clinton a millionaire

http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/13/investing/hillary-clinton-wall-street/

We don't forget...

[peacebird]

138. ? Raising money ?

[lewebley3]

222. Yes, Raising money to keep the Dem able to fight the GOP is important

However, Hillary has also put herself and her family out
on behalf of the American people and the Dems, and
she has done it for 30 years. She didnt' just decided
when she turned 67 to run for Presidency.

[treestar]

157. Yes some people see only flaws in others

I'm surprised they haven't tested Bernie for flaws. They will find some and then be disenchanted with him. People who see everything so negatively are not worth trying to convince of anything. say something positive about a person, and then they will always be, "yeah, but . . . . and list some flaw.

[Le Taz Hot]

6. Not happening.

[Walk away]

8. Sorry, I only vote for Democrats. Go peddle you Socialist elsewhere!

Last edited Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:20 PM - Edit history (1)

[Walk away]

79. Heard what?????

"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party." Bernie Sanders

[angrychair]

17. Bernie Sanders is a Democrat

Repeat, Bernie Sanders is a Democrat

There are candidates and members of Congress that did not start voting or their political careers as Democrats.

Bernie Sanders has always caucused with the Democrats, both in the House and Senate. He voted more in line with the Democratic Party platform, 98% of the time, more than almost any other Democrat in Congress. He has never acted like a DINO, his voting record proves it.

[Walk away]

80. I can't believe he would call himself a hypocrite. That's just crazy!!!

"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party." Bernie Sanders

[angrychair]

101. Ok.

Your candidate states in her bio: "I wasn't born a Democrat". Supported Goldwater in high school. While in college she was an intern for Ford when he was House majority leader. Attended the 1968 GOP convention to work for Nelson Rockefeller's run to be president.
Guess what? I don't care.
It is about actions, not words. Bernie Sanders has been as loyal to causes that matter to Democrats, his entire life, than we could ever expect or hope for in a life long Democrat.
Feel free to talk issues but I'm not doing this "Who is more a Democrat" crap.

[Walk away]

104. It's not about who was a Democrat when they were a child. Bernie Sanders is...

a Socialist today and proud of it. Apparently, you are not. That's not my problem. Hillary Clinton has been an active Democrat since college. She supports my party, she raises funds for my party, she has endorsed many hundreds if not thousands of Democrats running for office including Elizabeth Warren.

Bernie has done none of these things because he doesn't belong to the Democratic party. I VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS!!! I see a difference in my party and republicans. Bernie says they are basically the same.

[angrychair]

141. Bernie Sanders is a Democrat

Bernie Sanders is a DNC-endorsed candidate for president. As a candidate for a party, when you register to be on a ballot, with SOS for a given state, you have to affirm, by oath, you are member of that party you say you running under.
Not sure how else to say it.

[Bubzer]

206. If you vote for Democrats, then you should be voting for Bernie... HRC is a moderate.

[pinebox]

22. Really? So what are you doing voting for Hillary seeing as how she was once a Republican?

[Ed Suspicious]

30. Still is a compassionate conservative with a D after her name.

Socially liberal, economically conservative.

[Walk away]

81. She was a Republican in High School....Bernie has been smearing the Democratic party....

for decades!!!!!!



"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."

Bernie Sanders
- Socialist Scholars Conference in New York City, April 1990

[pinebox]

86. Smearing?

You mean over shit like this?
YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT!

These 89 Democrats Voted to Cut $8.7 Billion from Food Stamps
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/29/1273428/-These-89-Democrats-Voted-to-Cut-8-7-Billion-from-Food-Stamps

Today, the House passed the 2014 Farm Bill 251 to 166.

162 Republicans voted for it. 63 voted against it.

103 Democrats voted against it. 89 voted for it.

The Farm Bill contains $8.7 billion in cuts to the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), commonly known as food stamps. This translates to a $90 per month cut to beneficiaries. This cut follows November's $5 billion cut from the program, the "hunger cliff" that the Democrats themselves created.

The deal also restricts the USDA from "advertising the SNAP program through [TV], radio and billboard advertisements."

Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz all voted for the bill.

[Walk away]

89. So you hate Democrats????? nt

[JTFrog]

125. One might get that impression judging from all the right wing trash he brings in here

to bash them with.

[pinebox]

127. Do you support cutting SNAP?

If so, you may want to join the Republican party.

[Walk away]

140. Is this RU?

No wonder the country, Democratic party and press are so over Bernie and his supporters.

[pinebox]

158. answer the question

[LuvLoogie]

134. Her first vote when she became eligible

was as a Democrat for a Democrat.

[Romulox]

29. As gross as the Red Baiting in the 1950s. And it is 2015.

[Walk away]

82. Really??????

"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."

Bernie Sanders
- Socialist Scholars Conference in New York City, April 1990

[Romulox]

83. That quote doesn't make Red Baiting more palatable. It was disgusting then, and it's disgusting now.

[Walk away]

85. It's Bernie's quote. He said it, I didn't so I am assuming that you think he is disqusting!!!!

[Romulox]

88. The disgusting quote is yours: "Sorry, I only vote for Democrats. Go peddle you Socialist elsewhere"

(sic)

[Walk away]

90. Why is it disgusting???? Bernie is a Socialist. He is not a Democrat.

It's important to me. I do not believe in Socialism as a viable system for this country. How dare you tell me that I have to accept Socialism and keep my mouth shut about it.
Aren't you proud of Bernie's beliefs or are you ashamed that he is a Socialist?????????

[Duval]

115. Social Security and Medicare are socialist programs.

Bernie has consistently voted with the Democrats and now he is a Democrat. I really believe we are all capable of having a discussion without getting our pants in a knot. I respect your Candidate, Walk away, and will vote for her if she is the nominee.

[Walk away]

122. They are not "socialist" programs. Maybe you should find out more about Socialism....

since you are hawking a Socialist for president.
We are different in that I do not respect your candidate. I think it the height of hypocrisy to use my party to run a candidate who hates the party and has been very open about it.
Happily, Bernie Sanders has no chance of winning the nomination so I won't even have to worry about holding my nose and voting for him.

[TBF]

155. And I do not support your war mongering candidate.

I'd rather have a democratic socialist any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[demwing]

94. Give him a break, public education is Socialist

Go peddle you public education elsewhere

[Romulox]

96. Literally LOL!

Well played!

[Walk away]

152. Public education isn't "socialist". Do you know what Socialism is?

Do you know what a Democratic Socialist is? I can't waste my time with this anymore. It's just sad.

[BeanMusical]

170. The Russians Are Coming! The Russians Are Coming!

[truebluegreen]

198. DUzy!

[lewebley3]

44. Walk away you are right, I am voting for a Dem Hillary

[Bubzer]

50. ...

Clinton 'pleads guilty' to being a moderate

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/hillary-clinton-democrat-progressive/

[passiveporcupine]

58. OMG, she accused Sanders of yelling!

"I think sometimes it's important when you are in the elected arena -- you try to figure out, how do you bring people together to get something done instead of just standing on the opposite sides yelling at each other," Clinton said.

[Walk away]

84. That's absurd but It won't get Bernie any votes in the real world....

so keep it up!

[demwing]

74. You should be sorry. Go peddle your Crony Capitalist bullshit elsewhere!

[Walk away]

87. That's the winning attitute! Smile through your tears!

[demwing]

92. You're trying too hard

You're not that clever, and I just don't give a shit.

[Walk away]

153. Keep clicking!

[Jester Messiah]

164. They're paid by the post.

Just add to ignore and... walk away.

[demwing]

167. Yep

I'm being baited to attack this poster, and it ain't gonna happen. Ignored, and I wash my hands of this weirdness.

[demwing]

95. If Bernie wins the nomination, will you vote for him?

<<< socialists

[paleotn]

145. So You'd rather vote 3rd Way....

....At least the bat shit crazy Republicans are honest about their fascism. They see no need to hid it with empty words and empty promises.

[MrMickeysMom]

161. "Go peddle you Socialist elsewhere" ???

What are you saying? Do you understand what you say?

Never mind... It's pretty fruitless.

[Jester Messiah]

194. one gets a distinct "call center" vibe

Your irritation is important to us. Please hold for the next available shill.

[melm00se]

193. Jury results

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Most Non Reagan Democrats know Sanders is not a socialist.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Nov 11, 2015, 08:14 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: the alert's comments are worse than the alerted post's
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Bernie says he's a democratic socialist. It's not a bad word.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post has grammar errors, not sure what it means. Anyway it should be challenged in the discussion.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Could be hidden but I think leaving this grammatical whoopie cushion alone serves as its own warning.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Logical]

251. Lol,many vote for Hillary then? Nt

[Vattel]

13. Spot on.

[senz]

15. Forget her vicious, dishonest behavior in 2008.

[senz]

16. Forget that she and Bill fought Obama AFTER he won the nomination.

[BainsBane]

19. Thanks, I intend to

As do some sixty odd percent of Democrats.

Not because the GOP is worse but because she is the best candidate in the race.

Because I don't forget votes against the Brady Bill and Amber Alert programs, votes for corporate immunity of gun corporations, votes against immigration reform, votes for the Minutemen and the Wall, and continued support of $800 billion in corporate welfare for Lockheed Martin for the F-35, to name a few.

[retrowire]

39. hopefully you've done your research

but your post led me to research something I didn't know either.

----

Bernie voted against Amber Alert

Yes. He did. Though not for reasons people like to think.

Bernie has stated that he is a strong supporter of the Amber Alert program. The reason he voted against the bill was because it had unconstitutional riders attached, particularly the sentencing provisions that Bernie felt took power away from the judiciary branch.

---

so there's that. as for everything else, I've already known these facts. so let's go through them.

his Brady bill vote was obviously to protect sane gun owners ie: hunters in Vermont.

what else? ahh the vote for corporate immunity for gun manufacturers. yep, that's common sense though. suing the manufacturer of an item used for something other than its intended use is suing the wrong people. the manufacturers arent the ones misusing the product.

going on...

Bernie voted against an immigration reform in 2007 because he was concerned about how the guest worker programs affected domestic workers.

regarding the minutemen program and Afghanistan. these people are already employed by the federal government and are serving a role. would you want to be the person to say, nope, let's not fund the guys currently risking their necks. Did Hillary heroically deny them funding? I doubt it.

and finally, the f-35 Lockheed Martin thing. it brought more jobs to his state and provided an organization a place to build a tool for the military.

now look at ALL of these... supposed faults? and compare it to Hillary's record. You're a fan of Hillary's so I'm certain you should know her record better than I do.

[BainsBane]

41. Clinton had justifications for her Iraq War vote too

I disagree with them, as I do with Bernie's. I didn't know the reason for the Amber Alert. It sounds esoteric, but I have no reason to doubt his sincerity.

It's interesting to see the so-called left adopt a series of conservative positions, like on guns and the Minutemen, because of Bernie's vote. You won't see me justifying the IW vote. It was wrong, period.

Clinton also has provided far more detailed, substantive policy statements than Sanders.

Sum total: Hillary is much better, much better qualified, smarter, more competent, and will be a far better president.

[retrowire]

63. lets go down that list too

better? that's opinion.

More qualified? likely so, she was the wife of a president and is secretary of state so she's likely very familiar with the position as it is.

smarter? no way of knowing this. she is smart, but why be a member of the young republicans? why support the Iraq war knowing all the truth we knew? so is she smart for her own reasons or not smart?

more competent? the Iraq war rears its ugly head here too. and to say more competent? than who? Bernie? that may be opinion as well because I don't see any incompetence in Bernie's actions.

better president? we'll have to see about that, because despite what everyone seems to think they know about Bernie, he's got a grand history of knowing how to work with both parties and reach across the aisle and get things done.

also when they don't work with him, he knows how to get them out of the way. read his autobiography, it's damn enlightening about how he deals with others.

in the end, we'll see. but regarding your end sum mathematics I have to say they're questionable. Hillary in my eyes would not repair what's wrong with our nation, she would continue picking the low hanging fruit while avoiding the big job of shaking the whole tree.

wall st is my biggest issue in this race. Hillary is weakest on that. so that's why I am what I am.

[BainsBane]

97. Have you looked at Clinton's plan on Wall Street reform?

It is far more substantive than Sanders' and according to Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman addresses the very issues that brought about the crisis of 2008, which Sanders does not. He's keen on simple points that resonate with certain segments of the public but less interested in substantive policy that will actually solve the problem.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/wall-street/
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/8/9482521/hillary-clinton-financial-reform
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/16/opinion/democrats-republicans-and-wall-street-tycoons.html?_r=0

If you care as much about Wall Street as you say, you owe it to yourself to examine her policy positions rather than simply internet memes circulated about her.

Vote for whoever you want in the primary. I just hope by the general election you decide to support the Democrat. I know a number of people have said they would just as soon have a Republican because Clinton is just as bad, but that statement shows absolutely no understanding of her actual policy positions. It reveals an astounding level of misinformation. Of course it's possible, indeed likely, that their objections have little to nothing to do with her positions on issues like Wall Street or corporate accountability, especially considering that Sanders is hardly consistent on that subject himself (as some of his votes discussed in my first post indicate).

[retrowire]

100. But here's the thing about that.

Hillary can swear up and down, left and right all day long that she will control Wall St. But as long as her biggest fundees are from Wall St, and as long as she's served on the board of Directors of Wal Mart while they became the nations biggest employer, overtaking GE, and as long as she says ridiculous things like "I went to Wall St and said 'Cut it out guys!'" then I'll never believe that.

Here's a fact of life that we've all known, politicians are known to lie. Hillary's actions have constantly contradicted her new words so... That's the conclusion that many people are drawing.

[BainsBane]

106. That simply isn't true

Read the Krugman piece I linked to. Wall Street money is going almost exclusively to the GOP. He talks about a shift since 2008. Read it.

The fact is Wall Street were never her top donors, even while she was in the Senate. The Open Secrets info is internally contradictory and shows the number one industries supporting her as educators and lawyers, while finance and banking much further down the list. Additionally, that is old data. Wall Street hates Obama, as Krugman talks about, and they hate the entire Democratic party.

[retrowire]

107. According to Open Secrets, it's not old at all

"NOTE: All the numbers on this page are for 1999-2016and based on Federal Election Commission data available electronically on echo Monday, August 03, 2015."

Click the button that says "Help! These numbers don't add up to read this...

"HOW CURRENT ARE THESE FIGURES?
The figures in these profiles are taken from databases uploaded by the FEC to the internet on the first day of every week. Those databases are only as current as the FEC has been able to compile by that date (see the note above about lag times for data entry).

The Center updates figures for "Total Raised and Spent" and for "PAC/Individual Split" daily when new reports are due until all reports have been filed. The remaining figures - based on detailed contribution data - is updated by the Center every 3 or 4 weeks. This gives us time to analyze the contributions and categorize them by industry and interest group."

Never her top donors? Even while she was in the Senate? The open secrets page accounts for all money including from the year of 1989.

There is no misconception that Hillary is friendly with Wall St. The idea that "almost" all the Wall St money supports the GOP doesn't exclude a few Democrats from participating in that kind of corruption either. Hillary has hands in Wall St, that's literally an indisputable fact.

UPDATE: I read the Krugman article. It reaffirms what I already know. Bernie wants to break up big banks, reinstate Glass Steagall. Hillary doesn't want to reinstate Glass Steagall and wants to go after shadow banks.

Why not both? And because of the vociferous opinion of Bernie, I have no doubt he'd go after the shadow banks as well.

[Paka]

131. +1

[cantbeserious]

24. Not No - Hell No - This One Does Not Support War Hawks

eom

[morningfog]

25. And cluster bombs!

[Faux pas]

26. K N R

[AlbertCat]

28. Black voters like her!

Apparently that's all that matters in this primary.

[Ed Suspicious]

31. Which black voters? They are no monolith.

[senz]

93. +1

I'd be insulted if anyone presumed to speak for everyone of my race, gender, ethnicity, etc.

We are each of us individuals, and others should honor that.

[Catherina]

32. Don't believe the hype lol. No love from exploited workers & millennials n/t

[jalan48]

34. I think Bernie's ideas frighten many who believe the more conservative path is the way go.

Hillary is a well known commodity. Bernie may not win the election but the ideas and policies he speaks in support of are the future of the Democratic Party.

[Duval]

117. I agree and hope we're right! eom

[Maedhros]

35. Hillary supporters are driven entirely by fear of a Republican Presidency.

This fear is being promulgated and intensified by the Democratic establishment and their accomplices in the media, because they have no progressive policy agenda yet need progressive votes.

Just look at all the things we've been told to ignore "because the Republicans are worse!":

* War
* Torture
* Assassination "Targeted Killing"
* The TPP
* The National Surveillance State
* Criminalization of Investigative Journalism
* Prosecution of Whistle Blowers

All of the most strident voices demanding that we stop criticizing Democratic politicians for their roles in making these things happen seem to support Hillary for the Presidency. They must really believe that Sanders is unable to defeat the Republican nominee, despite numerous polls showing that this belief is false. They are so terrified that they refuse to even try to reverse the rightward drift of the Party. They have resigned themselves to simply slowing down the inevitable transition to fascism, and have abandoned hope of stopping it.

[lark]

36. Here's reality

Clinton is 100x better than any R candidate for president. If she's our party's general election nominee, NOT voting for her is voting to privatize social security, go to war with Iran, cut taxes for the wealthy and raise them for the poor, cut American jobs, end unions, end free public school, reduce Medicare to a voucher program, end affordable medical care. If you are one of the 1%, that's OK, if not, then why are you helping them?

I totally reject your premise and I'm voting for Bernie in the primary, in spite of seeing this kind of crap continually from some of his supporters. I will, however, vote for Hillary if she's the general election D. Do you want our government run by Trump, Rubio, Bush or any of the other clowns? If not, you have to vote for the Dem, even if she's not perfect.

[BlueMTexpat]

48. I appreciate your post.

We may not favor the same candidate for the primaries. But we both understand exactly what is at stake in the GE.

[Ed Suspicious]

51. Your vote is yours to cast as you see fit. I believe that if Hillary is the nominee there are many

who will simply chose not to decide. Low turnout will be the story on a Tuesday early next November. That frightens the shit out of me. It will be interpreted as both a rejection of of populist policies and an acceptance of austerity and racism.

[heaven05]

65. yeah many might not decide/vote

to their peril and IF....they will get what they didn't vote for and I can't wait for the whining. I'll be standing offstage LOL and long

[SmittynMo]

148. Hmmm.... Lets try this. Makes more sense

Last edited Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Sanders is 1000x better than any R candidate for president. If he's our party's general election nominee, NOT voting for him is voting to privatize social security, go to war with Iran, cut taxes for the wealthy and raise them for the poor, cut American jobs, end unions, end free public school, reduce Medicare to a voucher program, end affordable medical care. You also lose out on single payer Healthcare, FREE(not "affordable" as she would do) tuition.

If you are one of the 1%, that's OK, if not, then why are you helping them?

[lark]

257. I will be voting for Sanders if he's the general election nominee

I also said I'd be voting for him in the primary.

Way to ignore the actual text.

What will you do if Sanders isn't our general election nominee? Support the R's or the D's? It's really that simple.

[JoePhilly]

45. Another sermon from on high ...

... calling out the sinners.

[Fast Walker 52]

114. is it wrong to have ideals?

[JoePhilly]

142. Did I say that ideals are bad?

Folks like the OP think that if we disagree with him, we must not have any principles or ideals.

And given that, he gets to sit in judgement over us.

Apparently you agree. Otherwise you would not ask the question you asked.

[Fast Walker 52]

207. but you're not willing to vote for your ideals then?

[JoePhilly]

228. Ahhh ... the black and white thinking one usually ...

... only encounters in the RW.

My ideals include (but are not limited to) voting for the person I think will be the best leader and make the most progress overall.

That person is Hillary.

Whether you share my ideals, or whether you agree with how I prioritize them, is irrelevant.

Or are you one of DU's self proclaimed High Priest's of Liberalism who think they get to decide which ideals are the most important, and which are not?

[Fast Walker 52]

242. I'm just wondering if you're ok with the terrible policies she supports and has supported,

or don't think they are that bad, or you are ignoring them, or you are holding your nose and supporting her because she is more electable than other Dems.

IMO, Bernie is better on most issues. But I will hold my nose and vote for Hillary in the general. I know a lot of people who won't though.

[cannabis_flower]

47. Vote for Bernie! eom

[modestybl]

52. NO.

[SoapBox]

54. Never.

And for reasons in addition to the above including...trust.

I have none in her.

[840high]

57. I have none minus 100 in her.

[NuclearDem]

55. I find it quite adorable being lectured on wars, the police state, initimidating whistleblowers,

corruption, persecution of minorities, and torture by Putin apologists.

You people are fooling absolutely nobody.

[demwing]

76. Wtf are you talking about?

[Android3.14]

182. That's a weird response

It almost seems like you are saying a person's responsibility for promoting unjust wars, a police state, intimidating whistleblowers, corruption, persecution of minorities, and torture doesn't matter.

[99Forever]

56. Has Hell frozen over yet?

[PatrynXX]

59. Gunning for a repeat of 2004

and I wasn't a member then but I could have told anyone there was no way John Kerry would win. There has to be stark differences. and Hillary certainly will not be able to do a get out the vote. basically if you like how Rahm is handeling things. or how well Bush W was go ahead. Otherwise I'm voting for a Liberal. if I'm gonna vote for a Conservative I'll vote for Trump Ben Carson might be liberal really don't know much about him. Tea Party is not Conservative by definition. Tea party is for massive change and that is not Conservative. can one be a Right Wing Liberal? by definition yes. Liberal = change Conservative= stays the same. Tea Party does not want to stay the same. Trump is no Tea Party. and I don't even like him. but he will get out the vote. Not sure about Carson.

[JDPriestly]

71. Well stated. You really captured the choice we are making.

[4MyGrandson]

77. For me, it comes down to the future world I want to see exist for my grandson. Granted - if the

pukes win, the fire under the pot we are all being cooked in heats up very quickly, boiling many/most of us. But there might be some resistance, enough resistance (ala the occasional remembering of Democratic principles by Dems in saying "No" to Shrub( to slow down or even derail the disaster express run by the right.

If Clinton wins the White House, things will continue to go from bad to worse, only with some "moderation" thrown in so that we do not really notice the rising heat. By the time things get too bad, the corporate oligarchy will be firmly entrenched and we will not be able to reverse it.

Anything that can be connected to enriching the already-wealthy will be the policies of a Clinton administration.

Sure, we all (black & white, gay & straight, male & female, etc. & etc.) will be equal as slow progress on these social issues will continue (the cons have already lost on these - they just refuse to accept that reality)
But we will all be equally poor, abused, and in thrall to the 1%.

[Paka]

149. Welcome to DU!

Stated very clearly, 4MyGrandson. I have no children or grandchildren, but I have many wonderful nieces and nephews and fifteen amazing great-nieces and great-nephews to consider. I'm old enough that I could accept the concept of "slowing down the disaster express," but for their sake I want real and meaningful change.

GO BERNIE!

[Cassiopeia]

78. No thanks.

I'm going to fight for change for the 99%, not the gifts for the 1%

[UglyGreed]

98. and forget she swiped her

logo from a supermarket



Sorry I could not resist.

[JTFrog]

128. Yea, she fucking stole it...

You really think this is a thing?

She "swiped" an old logo from an English chain store from the 1800's that isn't even in business today?

Benghazi and email not working for you?

FFS.

[Paka]

150. A little levity, please.

I don't think the poster meant that to be serious.

[JTFrog]

171. I wouldn't put it past him. n/t

[SidDithers]

205. Can a pantsuit thread be far behind?...nt

Sid

[JTFrog]

221. Of course... although I don't think it lasted long. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

102. but but but "SANDERS SUPPORTERS"! Sanders supporters are this that andtheother, awful human beeens.

Haven't you read all the threads in GDP explaining to you what horrible, shambling, eldritch beasts "SANDERS SUPPORTERS" are? Verily, they are an ancient horror straight out of an HP Lovecraft novel.



You should make your decision on who to vote for in the primary based upon WHICH CANDIDATE DOESNT HAVE A LOT OF THREADS IN GDP TELLING YOU HOW TERRIBLE THEIR SUPPORTERS ARE, silly!

[sabrina 1]

105. It gets old, doesn't it?

[sulphurdunn]

119. Kick the ball Charlie Brown,

Trust me.

[Enthusiast]

124. The trade deal will be different too.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

130. But we can all dream

about being the 1%!

[WillyT]

146. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Half-Century Man]

147. This time it will be different.

This time we say no.
This time we stand.

It is time to take our country back.

[mike_c]

154. that's what "moderate dems" have been telling liberals for as long as I can remember...

...and my age begins with a six.

[treestar]

156. People who want Hillary are going to campaign for her

"we" means "me." A small subset of people who have so many complaints and see only the dark side of things and expect their ideals to be enacted in an atmosphere where few other voters want them yet. They only have to tell Hillary is better than a Republican because nothing makes you happy and Republicans are worse in fact. Of course you have to be patient, that is part of being grown-up and living in a Republic. What is wrong with being patient? The Republicans are, and that's how they get what they want.

[Mr. Evil]

159. Hillary will lean toward and say whatever it takes to gain the nomination and the presidency.

Then she will more than likely suffer from SMS (Selective Memory Syndrome). On the other hand, Bernie will say what he believes and will stick with the truth.

I'm with Bernie!

[MrMickeysMom]

162. Oh... but if I had a dime for every time the weathervane turns...

I'd been in Kansas with Dorothy...

[imthevicar]

175. Uhhhhh, No!

[leftofcool]

181. I will be voting for HRC. Thank you for reminding people to do so.

[wolfie001]

184. Thanks, will do!!!

When it's all over and she wins the nomination, I'll vote for her. "She's better on her worst day than ANY repuke is on his best day!" Quote is from BERNIE!!!! lol......

[riversedge]

195. okydody-no problem.

[AnarchoDeJesus]

196. And again I will shout that

The left/right paradigm is a racket.

[MineralMan]

200. K&R for the thread title.

For the rest, not so much.

[Hepburn]

204. Kicking cuz you are soooooooooooooo correct! n/t

[NonMetro]

220. I Agree. A Vote For Hillary Is A Vote For "Don't Make Any Waves!"

Because corporate America might get mad at us, outsource our jobs, put us out on the street, and reduce welfare benefits some more so some might starve to death. Of course, they're already doing that, but a vote for Hillary will ensure that deaths from exposure and hunger are "rare".

[still_one]

227. Bernie Sanders Supports Keeping Troops In Afghanistan

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Sunday that he supports President Barack Obama's decision to keep troops in Afghanistan, prolonging the war beyond 2016.

Obama announced last week that he would keep 5,500 U.S. troops in Afghanistan after he leaves office in 2017, breaking his promise to end the war during his tenure. He originally planned to maintain only a small military presence based at the U.S. embassy there.

During an interview on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday morning, host George Stephanopoulos asked Sanders, a Democratic presidential candidate, whether he backs keeping U.S. troops in the country.

"Well, yeah, I won't give you the exact number. Clearly, we do not want to see the Taliban gain more power, and I think we need a certain nucleus of American troops present in Afghanistan to try to provide the training and support the Afghan army needs," he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-afghanistan_5623b601e4b08589ef47bdaa

Sanders: "Media attacks on Carson unfair"

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/259495-sanders-media-attacks-on-carson-unfair

[cui bono]

233. Bernie didn't vote for an illegal war based on falsified information. IOW... he wasn't duped.

He said himself he's not a pacifist, that there are times when military action is indeed necessary. So what's your point?

[still_one]

235. Why keep troops in Afghanistan, for what purpose? What is the point of the OP

[cui bono]

237. Ask Obama.

Or is this a new found concern of yours for some reason?

[still_one]

246. Not at all. I am playing devils advocate. Why would Bernie agree to such a thing when this too

has no real clear end game or clear objective.

We could, and probably will be there for years.

[cui bono]

247. I don't know his reasons myself.

Personally I don't think we should have ever gone in there. Perhaps he's agreed to staying in order to not leave abruptly and try to leave it in better order than it is now?

Even so, he still has the best record on war of the two leading candidates.

[still_one]

250. I hear ya

[d_legendary1]

230. You know its pretty easy to vote for her if you forget her past

It even makes her likable. But since I live in the real world...

[Hepburn]

249. Guess you are just beinig catty!

I love that picture!

[Lil Missy]

252. Wow! HRC is sure powerful to have caused all that!

Of course I will vote for Hillary, especially since she is so powerful! Thanks for the reminder!

[Thinkingabout]

253. The deaths due to gun violence is hard for me to forget, everyday on the news there are more

killed through gun violence. I ask, why can't we get congressional members to vote against the NRA and vote in sensible gun laws to prevent those who are not capable of having guns in their possession. Then I look at the history of votes and I see where Sanders has voted against the Brady Bill five times, what is the fear of the NRA, and I see where there was a donation of $18,000 from the NRA to defeat Sanders' opponent, hum, is this pay back NRA gets for this contribution? Might be. No I get reminded daily of the deaths.