Okay then, FOUR things to stop saying...

[bravenak]

http://blackmillennials.com/2015/10/19/4-things-bernie-standers-need-to-stop-saying-to-black-people/

[cosmicone]

1. kick n/t

[mmonk]

2. That was an offensive diatribe in my opinion.

Bernie's support isn't just "white" for one. If the status quo is so great, why all the problems? I see no reasoned position in that piece. It seems to be a lot of optics and more of a hit piece. I suppose they want to drive out PoC from our campaign but I think that approach will fail.

[bravenak]

3. It was the voice of a black millennial.

Their honest opinion, though frustrated and angry, very real and tangible.

[Duckhunter935]

6. unfortunately

people like that black millennial did not get out and vote. Lot's of talk but sure did not vote in Kentucky.

[bravenak]

7. I do not know their voting habits. I am a millennial who is black and votes. Sounds like me.

[Duckhunter935]

35. Good for you

Sad you do not give a good man any credit for over 50 years of fighting for the disadvantaged. You should put that anger towards the republicans.

[bravenak]

40. So voting for mass incarceration through the Omnibus crime bill was fighting for the disadvantaged?

How so? It made manditory minimums manditory and that has haunted us for years. I do nit understand how putting non violent drug criminals behind bars for linger is helping the disadvantaged. Many of those were POOR BLACK MALES. Their children fatherless, their wives now single mothers, does not sound like it helped them very much.

[LiberalArkie]

82. It seemed that the Omnibus Crime came when the civil rights were starting to take off

and (in my opinion) was to bring about the "Corporate" prisons. And you have to face it, POC whether black, yellow or red have always been thought of as a profit center for the wealthy. The wealthy (being white, black, yellow or purple) do not really care about the color just how much they can squeeze out of someone before it becomes unprofitable for them to continue squeezing. Prisons have been a very profitable method of doing the squeezing. Young blacks have been easy picking, but the poor whites are slowing catching up.

[bravenak]

83. We have also been a profit center for poor whites and middle class whites. And we know it.

We see them finger pointing the oligarchy, but they also profited from our disadvantage greatly.

[LiberalArkie]

92. Oh yea I totally agree. Poor blacks have been a profit center for middle class blacks also.

I think the one thing that helped the southern blacks was the relatively strong family organization that the whites lacked. You very seldom saw a black person without someone that they could turn to. But whites tended to make the white person "down on their luck" an outcast. No one to turn to at all except the local bar. I really believe that is why the data is out about middle age white men only are dieing so fast. I never really learned myself how to relate to a friend at who who just got canned. But by the time they had run through all their money they were out of touch.

[bravenak]

94. I never put that together like that. You might be right.

Also, churches.

[SunSeeker]

122. Middle aged white men are also the most likely demographic to own a gun.

And having a gun in the home increases your risk of suicide five-fold.

[Skidmore]

109. This isn't about the "good man" or

you or me. Social and economic issues do not begin and end through the lens of whiteness, and I speak as a white woman who lives within a black family. If you are unable to see and empathize with the experience of "the other," then the issue is not with black people or women or any other group you feel defensive about. Sanders has the same blind spot and it is unfortunate that the guards won't drop so that the message can be heard and taken on board. It is not about you or me or Sanders. It is about learning and joining with a very historically rich and wonderful community by letting them give voice to their experiences and needs without patronizing or being judgmental.

[kwassa]

211. Great post.

Sums it all up perfectly.

[KingCharlemagne]

216. Sanders organized with CORE and SNCC but you're supporting Hillary

"hard working white people" Clinton?

Something here does not compute.

[bravenak]

218. If people stopped trying to force me to justify my vote constantly, I might warm up to Bernie again.

But as it stands, I do not want to be a part of his group. I am tired of being force fed how awesome Bernie is for black people and how much of my friend he is. How much better he is than Obama, how he going to save america, his revolution, or pretty much anything negative about Hillary to make him look better so I have to pick him.

[Duckhunter935]

221. And Hillary will be worse

Loves that private prison system, keeps drugs criminalized. As well as her love of Wall Street.

[bravenak]

222. Thanks.nt

[KingCharlemagne]

224. point taken. my apologies. I worry greatly about

what will happen to all poor people, their race notwithstanding, in a HRC administration. But I was not hectoring you and I apologize if it came across as such. the prospect of A republican administration offers horrors, the likes of which we've never seen in this country heretofore. Bernie himself says HRC on her worst day will be much better than any Repuke on his or her best day, a sentiment with which I heartily concur.

[bravenak]

225. Thank you.

[AgingAmerican]

228. IT's called 'Voting against your own best interest'

It's what right wing does to people

[newfie11]

5. ++++++++++++

[Ed Suspicious]

111. Yes.

[zeemike]

134. It's all about creating the illusion

That PoC are all monolithic in their views of politics and that they need to jump on the Clinton band wagon...Because the Clintons and the status quo Dems have solved so many problems not.

It's a big Madison ave sell job we have going on here.

[mmonk]

144. Feels that way.

I do know big money is also behind the racial injustice currently.

[zeemike]

150. Well there is money to be made.

With the added benefit of destroying any unity among people that could get in the way of big money.

As a Russian novelist once said, "The devil works by pointing out our differences"

[1StrongBlackMan]

184. If that is what you choose to see ...

Others might see it as a recognition of Bernie's lack of traction in Communities of Color ... and a suggestion of why that may be the case, from the perspective of a member of that community.

Note ... nowhere in the piece is there a mention of HRC (or, O'Malley), let alone, a suggestion that PoC should jump on her (or, his) bandwagon!

[zeemike]

190. Well there is not that many wagons out there

So no need to mention one.

But what I see is a few people on the internet talking as if they represent all PoC and know what they all want and think. And that simply does not fit with my personal experiences.

And it also defies logic...Sanders has a 40 year history of supporting civil rights and we are told PoC think that is not good enough...But a white privilaged woman who has a questionable history is good enough...that makes you go Hmmmmm...could this not be about policy but political insiders staying in power?

[1StrongBlackMan]

192. Really ...

Well there is not that many wagons out there ... So no need to mention one.

You're going to go with, "Because I don't like 'A', I must like 'B'?" ... even when there is option "C"? ... Really?

But what I see is a few people on the internet talking as if they represent all PoC and know what they all want and think. And that simply does not fit with my personal experiences.

Of course you do ... And, of course it isn't.

And it also defies logic...Sanders has a 40 year history of supporting civil rights and we are told PoC think that is not good enough......But a white privilaged woman who has a questionable history is good enough...that makes you go Hmmmmm...could this not be about policy but political insiders staying in power?

See, any of, the last 59 times that question has been asked and answered.

[zeemike]

196. It was a rhetorical question.

So the 59 times say nothing to the point made.

But you are right, there is a C and a D and even an x...(which is throw up your hands a ditch them all)...but in all cases it subtracts from the change and helps the status quo.

And IMO that is what this is about...keeping those in power who support those who have the power...and the money will flow that way, and some will profit from it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

197. Of course. n/t

[Hortensis]

194. It's worth reading for information, Mmonk -- about how people

who agree with that writer feel. I guarantee you Bernie's campaign staffers are reading this stuff -- for information and for understanding of another point of view.

[Duckhunter935]

4. sad

“Bernie Sanders organized with SNCC and marched with Dr. King”

So that can't be pointed out, OK I will disagree and will keep pointing out things like this Bernie has done.

[bravenak]

8. Do whatever you feel you need to do.

But be aware, that most of us already know. Some may get upset by the repetitive nature of the pointing things out thing.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

17. So what? Be upset, don't vote for Sanders. Everyone knew you weren't going to anyway.

...even when you pretended to support him.

[bravenak]

20. Why do you care?

[NorthCarolina]

24. Because there is a lot of needless poverty and suffering in America

due in large part by the actions of Republicans and their fiscally conservative counterparts in the Democratic Party, of which Hillary is one. That's why I care anyway.

[bravenak]

26. The crime bill removed many black fathers from their homes for extended periods of time.

Causing poverty to the single mothers. Do we blame Sanders for the mass incarceration that occurred because of his yes vote on the omnibus crime bill? Or does he get a pass? I'm confused.

[NorthCarolina]

27. Ask Hillary whose husband signed legislation largely responsible

for mass incarceration if Sanders should get the blame.

[bravenak]

29. Perhaps they share it!!!

[NorthCarolina]

32. Bill Clinton concedes role in mass incarceration

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/politics/bill-clinton-crime-prisons-hillary-clinton/

No, they don't share it other than in efforts by HRC supporters to obfuscate the truth and divert the discussion.

[bravenak]

34. So Bernie is home free from ANY blame even though he voted for it?

[Duckhunter935]

38. Why are you only blaming one though?

[bravenak]

43. She admits what she did. Bill even apologizes for it.

It is being acknowleged not covered up or made to seem benevolent in her case.

[merrily]

236. Now that Republicans have decided prison costs too much AND Hillary is running for Pres,

yes, Hillary is with the Republicans on this and Bill recently apologized in light of his wife's campaign.

[NorthCarolina]

97. Because the issue being raised I suspect isn't

really a dire concern since it overlooks and absolves the most complicit advocates behind the legislation. Fiscal conservatives HATE Bernie largely due to what they view as his policy of "giving free stuff" to what they consider "the undesireables", or "freeloaders". What the rest of us consider poor and failing middle class people working to try and survive on slave wages. That's the crux of the matter, but since they can't talk about that and garner support, they supplant artificial controversies that, when examined closely, are largely without merit or fact.

[NorthCarolina]

41. Can you define why he voted for it? We're there other things tacked on

that caused him to vote for it? The fact is, Bill Clinton signed it, and Hillary touted it. Color it any way you want, but the fact is The blame justifiably rests at the feet of the Clinton's. If you don't care then fine, that's you. It's not me though.

[bravenak]

47. But I thought he fought for the disadvantaged?

They ARE the most disadvantaged group! Black prisoners, their wives now single mothers, their children left in poverty while they serve long sentences for non violent drug crimes, chikd support racking up... Why did he not fight for them? Many say he was very effective.

[NorthCarolina]

55. Funny, I watched the video of Bill Clinton fessing up to signing the legislation,

and I don't recall even one instance in that video where he mentioned Bernie as being even remotely responsible for his support of the legislation. It appears to me that the issue of mass incarceration isn't really of much concern to you. What appears, to me, to concern you more is deflecting the blame from it's rightful target to another whom you just disagree with politically because he operates as an actual populist as opposed to a populist for the primary season only.

[bravenak]

59. Yes. Bill apologized, owned up to his faults.

I appreciate honesty more than deifying.

[NorthCarolina]

61. OK, so "sorry, my bad" is good enough for you.

Go with it.

[bravenak]

65. Has Bernie even said that about the crime bill? I'd take that.

[NorthCarolina]

72. Someone once said

"The crime bill removed many black fathers from their homes for extended periods of time. Causing poverty to the single mothers."

It seems to me that your positions just simply don't jive with your chosen candidate, but hey whatever...it's just an election. Glad you found your champion for your fight.

[bravenak]

73. Only the Clintons need to apologize. I get it.

[NorthCarolina]

76. Actually, I don't think they do. For instance, you were a Clinton supporter

BEFORE the 'apology', so the lack of one from the primary source of mass incarceration legislation apparently didn't soften your support, so I think it's safe to say that had that confession never happened you would still be a supporter. Based on your logic presented here on this issue, I would surmise that you're a fiscal conservative, and that issue overrides your concerns in other areas.

[bravenak]

80. You do not know what I was.

[NorthCarolina]

86. I've been on this site for more than a few years, so....

But, whatever. Luckily for you, you've got the New and Improved Hillary who didn't really mean all that stuff that happened before. It was just politics, nothing personal. You understand.

[bravenak]

91. Ok.nt

[dsc]

96. Bernie is responsible for Bernies support

[2pooped2pop]

88. +1000. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

123. The Clinton Crime Bill. Hillary supported it, Bill advanced it. Black Caucus voted for it 2 to 1

22 for it, 11 against it. The entire leadership of the caucus voted for it. Only 64 Democrats voted against it in the entire House, 188 voted yes. I actively lobbied against the crime bill. My side lost. Bernie was wrong, the WH was wrong, Kweisi Mfume was wrong.

In 1994 Hillary said this while promoting the legislation: "We will finally be able to say, loudly and clearly, that for repeat, violent, criminal offenders: three strikes and you're out. We are tired of putting you back in through the revolving door."
If anything it's on Hillary and Bernie, the Democratic Party including dozens of individuals who cast yes votes and of course Bill Clinton whose pen made it law.

[bravenak]

132. People pretend Bernie did not vote for it.

[Duckhunter935]

140. and some fail to see Hillary

supported it fully

[bravenak]

142. Like whom? I see it.

[Bluenorthwest]

147. Really? I see people pretending Hillary did not promote it. I also see you ignorning all that I

said which included taking Bernie to task for that vote. I'm not 'people' I'm a person and I said what I said. You did not respond to it. I can see why you wouldn't. The facts do not fit the narrative.

[bravenak]

149. You seem too angry. I shut down when folks are very angry.

[Bluenorthwest]

169. I'm used to straight folks pulling that 'too emotional' stuff on LGBT speaking about vote counts and

historic fact. When they can't manage an rebuttal, they say 'oh, clam down!'. It's tiresome. It's also just rude.

[bravenak]

171. You are berating me throughout the thread.

[Duckhunter935]

181. Pointing out the obvious is not

Berating. That is quite unlike the berating you give to others not of color.

[Bluenorthwest]

207. I have not berated you and any reader can see that. I am speaking facts calmly

and you are unable to address my points so you accuse, based on nothing at all. Quote me. Where did I berate you? I did not.
You however have avoided discussion by declaring me 'angry' and then switching to 'you have berated me'.

It is you who has characterized me, twice, based on nothing at all. Without evidence and simply as evasive tactic.

Knowledge = Life
Silence = Death

[heaven05]

209. you are correct in your posting of this OP

because many cannot, will not EVER see. They will stay blind because, for some, that keeps them in their privileged comfort zone and keeps the others from ever experiencing truth. They can bluster, berate, deny their own rudeness and have their candidate lose in the GE and they will still be blind. I really do applaud your courage, I will be there on your back when the knives come from that direction. GREAT POSTING OF the TRUTH!!!! Again.

[bravenak]

210. Thank you Brother!!!!

[Duckhunter935]

179. No that person just points out the obvious

And you fail to see it. That is not anger at all.

[Comrade Grumpy]

128. Bad vote. But that's one vote. How is his overall record on criminal justice and civil rights?

I think it's pretty darned good, and certainly the equal of Hillary's.

As for the OP's diatribe, well, she's entitled to her opinion. I increasingly feel like I shouldn't waste my time engaging with people like that.

[bravenak]

131. His overall record is good comparatively.

[kelliekat44]

215. And Bill Clinton's overall actions for blacks is much better than folks want to give him credit for.

He had a GOP Congress pushing him and many insane racists among them. But you have to take the total of his actions while President into account. He still holds the record for the most appointments of blacks to high levels of office and his influence in getting them inside corporate boards and policing making positions.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

98. Because I grew tired of your list of demands some time ago.

[bravenak]

99. So?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

100. You asked a question. I provided an answer. Keep up.

[bravenak]

101. Just wondering why you feel the need to talk to me

[DisgustipatedinCA]

102. Uh...maybe because you started a discussion, on a discussion board.

You may have forgotten to add the "fawning replies only" request to your OP.

[bravenak]

105. Awww! I'm hurt!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

106. I trust you've received my original point. Good day.

[bravenak]

107. Bye.nt

[2pooped2pop]

31. some may get tired of the repetitive nature

Last edited Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:51 PM - Edit history (2)

Of telling people what they must and must not say.

Sorry if this is attached to the wrong post. It was suppose to be in response to Bravenak saying some may get tired of the repetitive Bernie talk while repetitively telling the rest of us what to say and what not to say.Too hard to tell on my phone where this is attached as the thread has grown so much.

[Duckhunter935]

39. Very true

[ismnotwasm]

119. Oh really?

What an interesting comment. You holding back?

[2pooped2pop]

148. probably

Though I am sure I will be told what to say soon.

[ismnotwasm]

156. Not by me--let it out

Let it all out

[2pooped2pop]

182. I may have attached my response to wrong post.

I was replying yo Bravenak saying some get tired of repetitive Bernie talk while repetitively telling the rest of us what we must say or not say. I am posting by phone and might have missed my mark.

Sorry about that.

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. And we will continue to point out blunders....like taking Dr Cornell West to South Carolina...

How'd that work out for him?

[AgingAmerican]

227. It's pathetic

Someone has serious issues with reality.

[bravenak]

9. I did not know this:

Black people only make up 1 percent of Vermont’s population, but are sentenced at 12.5x the rates for whites. The Sentencing Project released a report that showed that Vermont has one of the highest Black to white incarceration ratios of any state in the country.

[aikoaiko]

13. Statistics like rates can paint a weird picture when dealing with very small numbers.

Its probably important to look at the raw numbers to place that rate in context

I'm not disputing the stat though.

[bravenak]

15. It's kinda hard to explain away though.

One of the highest rates. In the nation. Hard to ignore.

[Duckhunter935]

45. So it's obviously Bernie's fault

[bravenak]

48. It is merely a statistic from his State.

I have no idea what he could have possibly done about it. Perhaps he will now go fight for them.

[Duckhunter935]

51. He has been for 50 years

[bravenak]

53. By helping pass the omnibus crime bill that gave us manditory minimums, how so?

[Duckhunter935]

58. By fighting Wall Street

And poverty. Wish you would hold the one who signed the and the law one who championed that law to the same standard.

[bravenak]

63. Wall street is not my biggest issue. Not on the list of thinks most blacks place as their primary

concern. That is not him doing anything for my demographic.
If you are discussing welfare reform, then please just say so. That is also not top on my list.

[Duckhunter935]

68. It should be

That is the one of the main reasons for racial problems.

[bravenak]

74. Racism causes race problems. Not money.nt

[mmonk]

113. Money along with the southern strategy is a weapon.

[bravenak]

115. I notice you list money first.

[mmonk]

118. My list is not an hierarchy since I'm not an either or person.

But it should be obvious looking at the south as it currently is.

[bravenak]

120. I saw plenty of racism in California.

[mmonk]

124. It's everywhere. But the south where I live, it's an institution.

[bravenak]

133. I agree.nt

[Duckhunter935]

125. I will not even say what I think

as it would be taken the wrong way and probably be hidden.

[bravenak]

129. Bakersfield.

[tex-wyo-dem]

151. No matter how much you want...

To separate racism and poverty, the fact is they are closely tied to one another. I'll agree that they are not the same thing, but one feeds the other, and vice versa.

[bravenak]

152. Ok.nt

[heaven05]

217. BS

lot of nerve peddling this BS statement to POC. Lot of nerve and condescension in a lot of your responses. What's up with that? You cannot change the truth of this OP to fit into your comfort zone and expect everyone else that disagrees with you to do the same. JUST AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN when it's BS. Period.

[Duckhunter935]

219. Believe what you want

I am not being condescending at all. I never said they had to, I said it should be. To bad for you this is not your safe haven that you are protected from hearing or reading posts you do not authorize. Please do not be so condescending to me, as you are and you know it. I have over 20 years in the army and worked with every ethnicity without any issues. Just as some whites hold a very extreme viewpoint, so do people of color. I think I am in the middle and am proud I can post my comments here even if they do not please everyone.

Have a nice day

[heaven05]

230. you too

[Bluenorthwest]

137. Hillary promoting the crime bill in 94, it's all about locking them up and leaving them there....

"We will finally be able to say, loudly and clearly, that for repeat, violent, criminal offenders: three strikes and you're out. We are tired of putting you back in through the revolving door."- Hillary Clinton

[bravenak]

138. True. And Bernie voted for it.nt

[Duckhunter935]

141. And Hillary would have also

[bravenak]

143. Yes. Nobody pretends she is a saint. Nobody.

[ismnotwasm]

160. Hell no

There are any number of things I wish she would have done differently, or said differently.

[bravenak]

167. Exactly!

[Duckhunter935]

174. Yes many actually do

While denigrating her opponents

[bravenak]

175. Not really.

[Bluenorthwest]

165. Personally when both candidates were on the same side on an issue I think

it is dishonest and ineffective it on one of them alone.
I also think that such instances provide an excellent platform to highlight the institutional nature of such problems, which is the actual and true root of the thing. Black Caucus Leadership voted for it and the caucus 22 yes, 11 no. Institutional.

These two candidates, whom most of you think are very different, both supported this bill we think is terrible, which I thought was terrible then. What does that say about the process rather than the persons? The majority of African American politicians and voters supported that bill. Institutional, not a function of personal error or individual bigotry. Systemic. So pervasive no one can see it until it is too late.

[bravenak]

168. My point is that they are not that different.

[Duckhunter935]

177. That's my biggest problem

The utter dishonesty pushed by a few that are only going after one candidate. They are silent on the others that did or supported the same thing. It is the blatant dishonesty that angers me.

[Duckhunter935]

139. that does not matter

it's her turn and she is anointed

[Wilms]

21. Nor I. :(

Weber adds, "We are concerned that there appears to be a racial disparity. But you're also working with really small numbers here, so it's hard to tell."

The confusion is felt on the ground level too. Curtiss Reed, executive director of the Vermont Partnership for Fairness and Diversity, a state advocacy group, told Mic that it's hard to draw anything conclusive from these figures because, "The devil is in the details. And we don't have all the details."

http://mic.com/articles/124341/here-s-how-black-people-actually-fare-in-vermont-with-bernie-sanders-as-their-senator

[bravenak]

22. Sad that they cannot explain it.

[Truprogressive85]

10. funny I just read

Front-runner Sec. Hillary Clinton has a lot to answer to.

Her ties to the financial sector are repugnant. Major financial firms like JP Morgan Chase, Lehman Brothers, and Goldman Sachs are known to prey on low-income people, most of whom are Black. And these financial behemoths are backing her campaign. How is she prepared to initiate and enforce policies that free Black people from vicious financial burdens, while she’s beholden to the very same entities that profit enormously from the economic crippling of Black people?

Sec. Clinton also has close ties to the prison industrial complex. In 1994, she lobbied heavily for the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, a disastrous legislative measure that gave blank checks to local police departments for the purpose of criminalizing Blacks and Latinos. (Fun fact: then Senator Joe Biden was a major sponsor of the bill.)

The effects have been long-lasting. The school-to-prison pipeline, the growth of prisons (both public and private), and structural barriers to employment, education, housing, voting, and public assistance, are direct results of the measure … among others. That’s why its not surprising, nor is it a coincidence, that prison industrialists are bankrolling her presidential campaign.

She’s been double-dutching on criminal justice issues for 40 years. It’s time she’s held accountable.

http://blackmillennials.com/2015/10/20/black-lives-matter-demands-a-presidential-racial-justice-debate/

[bravenak]

14. Yep!!!

Nobody puts halos on her though. They admit her faults.

[2pooped2pop]

37. her faults kill people

And Bernie needs no halo. It's just that he has fought for the rest of us for decades. Changing your mind is fine. Changing it daily to try to appeal to people temporarily until u get the job, is not.

[Duckhunter935]

46. Never seen you call her out

Interesting you only post diatribes against one person.

[bravenak]

52. Hillary? That was so pre Summer!

After BLM, she started looking less bad.

[Duckhunter935]

62. And next spring

She will evolve again to get the rural vote. To be so blind, I am truly sorry for you.

[bravenak]

66. Of course she will. They all do.

[Duckhunter935]

71. And what she is saying now

To get black millennials will be long forgotten and her Wall Street backers will again have the power of access.

[mcar]

12. K&R

Thanks brave!

[bravenak]

18. No prob!

Stayed up all night writing my essay. I think it sucks. Hated the book so much. Somebody should read it. Meh. Whatevs. It will be a passing grade though, that's cool.

[mcar]

172. We've all been through it

I hated writing essays on books that bored me. Ya gotta do the assignments though. That's what I keep telling my youngest, a college freshman.

[bravenak]

173. I think they bore us on purpose.

[mcar]

180. Right?

So many great books, novels, plays etc. I was an English major so had a whole mess of them. But some were just awful.

[Truprogressive85]

16. I follow BlkMillennials on twitter

Black Millennials
?@BlkMillennials
Hillary is only concerned about #BlackLives because it's politically convenient for her to do so. #Hillary4Who
https://twitter.com/BlkMillennials/status/660487296907546624


Black Millennials
?@BlkMillennials
Hillary Clinton to (finally) address mass incarceration. Boy do I love election season...

[bravenak]

19. Hillary is just like ALL POLITICIANS.

Some pretend the others are SAINTS, benevolent and kind. Though they are just like her.

[Truprogressive85]

25. sorry

As a black man, I was disgusted (and still ) with downright racist politics HRC and her camp put out in 08'

She used her white privileges to attack a black man to gain advantage will never sit well with me

[bravenak]

28. Never sit well with me either.

But Bernie's talk of URBAN gun violence and GANGS being the problem with guns as opposed to RURAL guns, struck me the same. After Sandy hook, all those rural suicides and the fact that the lax gun laws allow for such, it leaves me wondering why he chose that type of language. Who uses words like Urban negatively and Rural positively when discussing crime while speaking of gang violence? Perhaps I hear a dog whistle where none is, but I have not heard him clear that issue up and am waiting for the explaination.

[Wilms]

36. Sandy Hook isn't particularlly rural.

I'll bet there are more hunters using firearms as a tool in Vermont than there are those who collect and massage them them every night.

[bravenak]

54. Not particularly Urban either.

[Wilms]

77. Right. It's pretty much a suburb.

Of the residents of Newtown, many commute to jobs in Manhattan, Hartford, and Stamford.[16] One portion of Newtown has many white collar workers who are employed at General Electric, IBM, Pepsi, and other companies; and doctors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtown,_Connecticut

[bravenak]

79. Yep.

[Truprogressive85]

44. You do know

She said thing about gun in 2008 ? are you aware of that ?

If we are going to have an honest discussion about guns

lets keep it all they 100 :

"Urban areas" don't suffer from lack of gun control because these areas have tough sentences for guns, its the fact that the streets are flooded with illegal guns.
How is anyone going to get those all illegal guns off the streets ? are we going to stop selling guns period to civilians that want them lawfully?

[Duckhunter935]

49. Pesky facts

[bravenak]

56. He is still saying it. She is not.

[Truprogressive85]

75. both are dancing on the issue

She not putting out a realistic plan to combat guns and the problems they cause, because there has to be middle ground where both gun owners and gun control advocates can find common ground.

utopia idea would be ban of all sell of guns to civilians, no police having them and stop making guns period
unless you take all the illegal guns off the street nothing will change , you can closing the gun show loopholes( which is a step), but again keep it 100: I can go to the hood and get myself a 9mm for $100 all from an underground market which law is going to stop that ?

[bravenak]

78. Nobody has a realistic plan.

But she is at least trying to formulate one. He is not. I done had too many folks shot and gone to too many gang funerals to say, oh well. Gotta start somewhere. He does not really seem to think there is much of an issue besides 'urban' and 'gangs'. Well, that is bullpucky, yo. I see spree killers everyday on my tv who are neither URBAN nor GANGS.

[Truprogressive85]

85. She not trying she playing politics

She only seems speak in terms of punishment not reality

For example during the Dem. Forum : She brought up Eric Garner's name she said "he deserved punishment but not death "

What kinda of punishment did he deserve ?

a fine ? Prison ?

Also can you honestly say gangs are not affecting black neighborhoods ?

[bravenak]

90. A ticket. He derseved a ticket. To go to court and fight it just like a white dude could.

Of course gangs are affecting black neighborhoods. But the biggest gang fight we have seen was white guys down in Texas. Rural. Dead bodies everywhere, and injured. Those are not the problem, apparently.
Neither are the school shooters. The movie theater killers. Just the URBAN stuff. I know what urban means. So do you. I refuse to pretend just gecaus I like the guy. They are both politicians. He says what his constituents want to hear, and she does too. This deification is maddening.

[Truprogressive85]

103. so she would use the Ferguson model than

The biggest gang is the police unions that have no remorse after killing black ppl
when I hear , read, and see black bodies on the floor from gang related violence it breaks my heart I dont hear lily white gun control advocate groups coming to those neighbors
when cop kill my brothers and sisters it makes me angry because I know the cop will not see a jail cell yet he can use a gun lawfully and kill us lets ban cops from carrying gun too

I've learned to cut thru the Bull that politicians say and see where and what they stand
.
HRC can't think by doing the nae nae that black ppl will fall for her ! The black electorate is far too sophisticated. They see when politicians are just pandering. This was true with her and the black vote in 08' which was one of the many factors that resulted in her losing the election

[bravenak]

104. We have to pick somebody.

And Bernie just ain't doing what needs doing to get the attention.

[Truprogressive85]

108. That is your opinion

Sorry I dont those same views

my choice will be either Sen. Sanders or (as a backup) O'malley

If HRC were the nominee the choice of voting for her will have to be the very last minute

[bravenak]

110. That is fine.

[fbc]

161. Yeah, you are hearing a dog whistle where none exists.

Rural people are generally pro-gun. Urban people generally are not.

I happen to be an urban person who believes my city should be able to enforce tough gun control. I also understand that in more rural areas that voters oppose gun control with a passion.

The proliferation of guns under Obama has increased astronomically. This isn't because Obama is pro-gun. It's because gun manufacturers through the NRA have been able to convince people that "Obama is coming for their guns". A sensible gun policy that might have a chance of working, if only a small chance, is a policy that moderates the rhetoric against guns so it's a little less easy for the NRA to play on people's fears.

[bravenak]

164. I do not think so.

[bravenak]

23. I felt this part.

Black people are the best thing for Black people. A political system — rooted in anti-Blackness and reliant upon cheap Black labor — will not save my People. This system benefits y’all. White privilege means the political system, no matter its flaws or corruption, will always work for the interest of white people.

It works best for rich white people, duh. But it also works for poor white people in ways it doesn’t for Black folk. That’s why y’all get the most in welfare and aren’t called lazy. Y’all are called “hardworking.” That’s why presidential contenders come stumping for y’all votes during election season (especially if y’all live in swing states), but relatively ignore Black people.

[NCTraveler]

30. K&R

The sainthood image being promoted by some is amazingly offensive. The whole POC just don't get how great this white man is for them. And yes, it has been put almost word for word in that manner right here on du. Then when we all go do our research we find out he is a politician who panders just like the rest in combination with a network so small that there isn't much opportunity for him to advance anything. With that known, he is still sold by some as a knight in shining armor, and POC are just too stupid or are suffering from mental illness so they can't grasp his true greatness.

His own backyard isn't in order in this area. None of their yards are clean.

[bravenak]

33. Thank you thank you thank you!

Yes! None of them perfect! Exactly!

[mmonk]

60. The white savior canard wasn't created by us.

Throwing it on us because we don't support the status quo is factually vacant.

[NCTraveler]

64. I never said you directly.

Yes, it was created by a good portion of Sanders supporters.

[mmonk]

84. I'm willing to bet many of Bernie's supporters would support Barbara Lee

if she were running instead of him.

[NCTraveler]

89. I agree. Many of them would. Many of them wouldn't. nt.

[Armstead]

154. Maybe, of you acknpowledge that, there is no "them"

There is a lot of individuals supportig him. Just as there are a lot of individuals supporting any candidate.

[NCTraveler]

159. Maybe what?

What did I say that makes you thing "maybe." The first thought in your sentence doesn't flow with your second thought in the exact same sentence.

[Armstead]

188. Probably was a litle random. I was Posting While Preoccupied

I check in and out of DU for breaks during the day from my real-world work, and sometimes post quickly.

Basically I was referring to the fact people often tend to generalize about Sanders supporters as if it is a monolithic mass.Like any campaign though, it's just a collection of individuals with many different characteristics. Just as for Clinton etc.

I just think it would be helpful if there were less characterizations of masses of people based on who they support.

[Codeine]

42. You post good shit and you make me examine

my own motives and thought processes better than anyone here.

[bravenak]

50. Thank you!

[giftedgirl77]

57. Way to go B!

Don't let them keep you down.

[bravenak]

67. I won't.

[restorefreedom]

69. the only one of those things i have heard people say

is the march with mlk, which, while not relevant to now, is an important part of bernies political history. i have honestly not heard people say the other things listed.

[Starry Messenger]

70. K&R

In the meantime, there is a whole real revolution going on in America. Black Lives Matter. The University of Missouri. Fight for 15. Instead of telling Black people that they are doomed if they don't vote a certain way, white people should get out of doors and see how the job is getting done.

[bravenak]

81. So many ways they could be a part of the solution.

[ismnotwasm]

116. Right?

#BLM is revolutionary. The continued fight for women's rights world-wide is revolutionary. Immigration reform is revolutionary (and acknowledging what a formidable voting bloc AA's and Latino's are is just damn common sense)

[Starry Messenger]

176. Instead they get sidelined in the discussion as "identity politics" & "your issue"

Looks like some people are going to be mighty surprised at the real source of political power in the coming years.

[Stellar]

87. Thanks for sharing!

Too funny!

Eta: I guess this thread would only appeal to those that have had these kind of responses to their posts too many times.

[bravenak]

93. It is pretty funny!

[Stellar]

95. I think so! NT.

[ismnotwasm]

114. K&R

[DisgustipatedinCA]

117. The author of the piece means it too. She wants to shoot anyone who is tainted with anti-blackness.

"In order to protect our Black freedom, we’ll need an armed self-defense; a Black brigade that determines appropriate modes of armed resistance to dissuade infiltrators and antagonists tainted with anti-Blackness, envy, and mediocrity."

http://blackmillennials.com/2015/11/02/im-a-pro-black-libertarian/

[bravenak]

121. Is there a point?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

145. yes

[ismnotwasm]

127. Nice cherry picking

I like this one.

This radical pro-Black libertarian value system is feasible. It’s happened before; Black Wall Street being the prime example of an economically thriving Black-owned and operated community that didn’t rely on anti-Black infrastructures for support. But whenever a Black community thrived, racists destroyed it … and that’s why, in this go-round, we must unlearn and re-learn what Black orchestrated protection looks like.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

146. I like that one too. Shooting infiltrators and those affected with taint--not so much.

[ismnotwasm]

155. Hmm

And that's all you see in the article?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

158. Do you always make assumptions that are completely unsupported?

If you wish to talk about other parts of the op-ed, get busy. I said what I wanted to say, irrespective of what you would have had me say. Process.

[ismnotwasm]

162. Do you?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

163. I'll leave you to your "I know you are but what am I" level of discourse. Bye now.

[ismnotwasm]

186. I noticed you are far more mature than I

I did notice.

[LanternWaste]

223. Lacking a premise, supporting evidence and a conclusion, your level of discourse isn't much more...

' "I know you are but what am I" level of discourse...'

Lacking a clear premise, supporting evidence and a concrete conclusion, your own level of discourse isn't really any more valid in any substantial way. However, I do realize that holding others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to is part of human nature...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

226. If you believe that "I know you are but what am I" is a good rhetorical comeback...

...then I don't think I'll bother trying to reach you at your level. Are you able to elucidate what I said that lacked a premise, supporting evidence, or a conclusion?

[Duckhunter935]

130. sickening

and I am sure some here are fine with that

[WorseBeforeBetter]

214. Switch "white" for "black" and it sounds like the Klan.

Wonder what color their sheets will be?

"Envy." That's fucking funny.

[fbc]

126. People who blame a candidate's supporters for their voting decisions are liars.

It seems that a lot of Hillary supporters are unable to justify their choice, so they level charges of sexism and racism at Sanders and his his supporters.

It must be so infuriating to be unable to support your choice of candidate with a logical argument based on actual issues. I sympathize with your ordeal.

[bravenak]

135. .

[Duckhunter935]

136. very true

Since Hillary has taken up most of the same positions lately that Bernie has had for many years.

[BainsBane]

153. No one needs to justify their vote to you or anyone else

No candidate owns or deserves anyone's support. Candidates have to earn every last vote.
People are not liars because they don't do as you want them to. They can vote for any reason they want, and it is entirely within their rights.

Hazing is not a wining campaign strategy. When a candidate's supporters repeatedly treat people badly under the justification of support for a candidate, it is entirely logical to want nothing to do with them or their candidate. To then respond to that decision by waging further insults only shows their decisions correct in the first place.

[ismnotwasm]

157. Hahahahaha!

He swings, he misses!

[Romulox]

185. Nailed it. nt

[MisterP]

166. FOUR venues Clinton supporters haven't expelled BLM from

[bravenak]

170. Ok.nt

[zalinda]

178. Wow, such a lot of hate

if a white person wrote it, it would have been called racist.

The fact is, Obama (a black man) has not been good for the poor whether white or black, or any color (pick one). I know, I'm down in the trenches. I go to a food pantry, for my food. There, you find all colors working together helping each other. It doesn't matter that the person running the program is white and the pastor is black. It doesn't matter that the people doing the intake is of a certain color, because behind the table is all colors, and ages.

I go there more than once a month because I'm donating clothes, and other stuff I decided I no longer want. I volunteered to take the rest of a clothing give away and donate to my pantry, another clothing give away place and a farm workers group. Since only 12 families showed up for the clothing give away (lots of factors), I ended up getting enough boxes of clothes to fill 2 vans. Thankfully they were not packed well, so instead of 3 or 4 weeks sorting through the clothes, it's only taken me 2 weeks. I've already delivered 5 fully packed boxes to the pantry, and it was warmly welcomed, as people knock on the doors all week long looking for clothing.

While POC who have a good income, and the writer sure looks like she or someone else supports her well, she is not the majority. She is sitting there in her ivory tower demanding that things change HER way. While those of us who are poor, no matter what color, are clearly just trying to survive. I have yet to come across that type of acrimony in my comings and going with the pantry. I also haven't come across that type of attitude in my neighborhood. We help each other and it doesn't matter what color, what country or what religion. I don't find that type of diatribe helpful for bringing white people over to her side, just the opposite. If I had run into her when I first came into contact with POC, I would have run the other way. Thankfully, my first contact with a POC was a little boy living across the street from my grandmother. I was seven and he was my little chocolate boyfriend.

Every person has a hard luck story, when you sit down to listen to them, but they are not angry about it, they are resigned to it. It's the way of the world, and there are POC and white (which is also a color) who are not living the life that they should. No one should have to live with rotten or few teeth or with eye glasses that are 20 years old, or no glasses at all. We are supposed to pull together, not pull apart. And, those who try to divide us by color or otherwise, only do so to hurt the blending of society. All that we have accomplished in the last 50 years will be for nothing. I do not want to go back to the time that we are afraid of someone because of what they look like.

And, yes, I realize that the whole country isn't like this, but there are more pockets of community around the country that are like this than those who live in ivory towers know. And we are growing, and working together. I don't want diatribes like her's to undo the good that has been done, and can do in the future.

Z

[Duckhunter935]

183. If a white person wrote that hateful piece

It would be perfectly acceptable to call them out. In this case, not so much. Sad in my opinion.

[bravenak]

187. You can go over there and call her out.nt

[Duckhunter935]

189. Yes I can

[Blue_Tires]

191. co-signed

[Hortensis]

193. K&R.

[Digital Puppy]

195. Good piece...

K&R'd

[bravenak]

202. Thank you!

[Number23]

198. LOLOLOL!!!!!!!! Girl, the more they try to shut you up the HARDER you come at 'em

And I love you for it.

[bravenak]

200. Hey! I only have them half the list!! They can do it!

[jack_krass]

212. Who's trying to shut her up?

If anything, it's the OP (through the linked article ) who is trying to shut people up.

[Number23]

213. And with excellent, excellent reason

And if you're not aware of the alert stalking of the OP then you could always spend a bit of time reading this web site instead of asking people questions.

[Duckhunter935]

220. Skinner has stated

Several times alert stalking has not been happening, take it up with him.

[Number23]

229. I don't need to take it up with anyone. Everyone here knows what's going on

And it's precious and adorable that you of all people felt the need to chime in to this conversation with unnecessary and totally out of proportion aggression as if I am in any way even remotely interested in your opinion about anything.

[Duckhunter935]

231. Ok

I do not need to put up with the rude treatment from some here. I know some of us here are not allowed to have any opinions and need to be attacked for speaking up at all. Have a great night.

[Number23]

232. See ya

[F4lconF16]

199. Kicking.

Send me the hidden article?

[bravenak]

201. Here it goes. Nothing wrong with it

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/1251788112#post54

[F4lconF16]

203. Wow. #bulllllshittttttt. Nt

[bravenak]

204. I know.nt

[Cha]

205. Girl you got Hillary energy.. or she has bravenak Energy!

“The NAACP likes Bernie”

"Y’all also seem to think that there’s only one Black voice, and the NAACP represents it. Yes, the NAACP has a commendable track record in racial justice issues, but they’ve had their missteps as well. (Rachel Doleful anyone?) Its beginnings are also dubious.

No one org represents all Black people, and to silence us by upholding your view of a good negro is paternalistic and anti-Black, no matter how well-intentioned. So chill."

Energizer Bunnies!

[jfern]

206. One thing about mentioning MLK is that makes people think that's all he did

He has a long history of working for civil rights.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/20-examples-bernie-sanders-powerful-record-civil-and-human-rights-1950s

As for the present and future, he's got a good racial justice platform.

[heaven05]

208. thank you

more hope for progress because people are aware. Link bookmarked for further reading.

[Jester Messiah]

233. A line from the article that stood out...

"we’re not fighting for your support. You ain’t that important. "

Okay then. Why do you keep telling us what to say or not say then? I mean, obviously we're at a parting of the ways, factionally speaking. Do you just want to be left alone and have Bernie supporters quit bugging you? If that's the case, why do you continue to address posts to us?

[merrily]

235. Jury voted unanimously to leave. Alerter may not alert for 24 hours.

A line from the article that stood out...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=805503

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

COMMENTS

POC fighting for racial equality and fighting against oppressionis hardly what is agitating garbage. What is agitating garbage is posts like this that that are incredibly insensitive and inappropriate. The Democratic party is supposed to be the party of equality for people of all color, gender or religion. Just stop lashing out at POC here on DU. It's really starting to make DU look less and less like what DU was setup to do: Elect more Democrats to office to fight this kind of shit. We should NOT be about telling POC to shut up and get to the back of the bus again.

Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alert comments bring up a whole bunch of issues with this post that never appear in the post. Either the alerter is discussing a different post or has decided this should be hidden for a bunch of things that were never said. Ironically, the alerter is taking issues with trying to shut people up while attempting to get this post pulled.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing outside TOS. Use the response to disagree. If a serial Alerter, ban the Alerter.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: One of the most frivolous alerts I've seen yet.

[Jester Messiah]

237. WTF.

I know alert-stalking is pretty much the national pastime around here, but what was that person on about?

[merrily]

238. I know. On the bright side, the jury voted unanimously to leave. nt

[AtomicKitten]

239. I finally realized why that sounds familiar.

It's a repackaging of the racial division that was stoked in the 2007/08 Democratic primary. Expect it to escalate.

[bravenak]

240. We are not the ones trying to hav a revolution. You are. You need us.

[Jester Messiah]

241. Think so?

I'll be fine. That's my privilege, which I fully recognize. I want the best possible outcome for the most number of people, but if you insist on shooting yourself in the foot, I'm way out of range of your collateral damage. So think real hard before you pull that trigger. I can afford to stay home on election day; can you?

[bravenak]

242. I'll be fine too. Blacks are used to living in a depression. Lived in degredation since the founding

Others are not used to such and may not have the resilience to survive such harsh conditions. They are not prepared for the constant travails. Going from privileged to just one of many sufferers may have a psycological component to it that leads to self harm. I worry about that daily. So does Hillary, my candidate. She know that revolution is not enough, we need SOLUTIONS, to prevent the horrors that may come to pass.

[Cha]

243. LUCKY YOU! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!