2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI think O'Malley's attack on Bernie was an audition to be HRC's running-mate.
O'Malley knows Bernie has the votes of almost all the voters he would've had a shot at sewn up at this point.
O'Malley also knows current Sanders voters will never switch to his side now that he's red-baited the Bern.
And O'Malley knows that the running mate usually spends the fall campaign being harsher and more confrontational towards the other ticket and the other party than the nominee is.
So my guess is that O'Malley's performance in front of Rachel was about showing HRC that he has attack dog potential, and then using a stretch as veep to build the national political presence he doesn't have now.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)mahina
(17,664 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Cute and adorable when he tries to attack and ineffectual. I think I would pass on having him "guard" my crown.
elleng
(130,964 posts)Martin O'Malley:
1. Ended death penalty in Maryland
2. Prevented fracking in Maryland and put regulations in the way to prevent next GOP Gov Hogan fom easily allowing fracking.
3. Provided health insurance for 380,000
4. Reduced infant mortality to an all time low.
5. Provided meals to thousands of hungry children and moved toward a goal for eradicating childhood hunger.
6. Enacted a $10.10 living wage and a $11. minimum wage for State workers.
7. Supporter the Dream Act
8. Cut income taxes for 86% of Marylanders (raised taxes on the rich).
9. Reformed Marylands tax code to make it more progressive.
10. Enacted some of the nations most comprehensive reforms to protect homeowners from foreclosure.
Mother Jones magazine called him the best candidate on environmental issues.
Article here:
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/12/martin-omalley-longshot-presidential-candidate-and-real-climate-hawk
His PLANS, NOT prepared by a 'puppy:'
15 Goals to Rebuild the American Dream
https://martinomalley.com/category/15-goals/
Addiction treatment and prevention
https://martinomalley.com/policy/addiction-treatment-and-prevention/
Criminal Justice Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/criminal-justice/
Making College Debt Free for all Americans
https://martinomalley.com/policy/make-college-debt-free/
Holding Wall Street Accountable
https://14d2r744okfe40r1ug1oqm6y-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/OMalley-Wall-Street-Reform.pdf
Expanding Social Security
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/expanding-social-security/
Homeland Security
https://martinomalley.com/vision/homeland-security/
Immigration
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/immigration/
National Service
https://martinomalley.com/national-service/
Environment
https://martinomalley.com/climate/iowa/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/agenda/
Foreign Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/truman-national-security/
Gun Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/preventing-and-reducing-gun-violence/
Trade Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/trade-policy/
Campaign Finance Reform (Restoring our American Democracy)
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/restoring-our-american-democracy/
Why We Need a Constitutional Amendment to Secure the Right to Vote:
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/news/right-to-vote/
Veterans and Military Families
https://martinomalley.com/policy/veterans/
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I don't think he knows how to be mean. I do think he has accomplished a lot. And he is still my next choice if anything happens to show he has a good chance at beating Hillary.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I loved what I heard from the Rachel Maddow forum. I think that both the other candidates should be working with him on well just about every issue he brought up. The only major thing I disagree with him on is Republicans not being the enemy they are and they have more than proven it with the way they deal with Obama.
elleng
(130,964 posts)but his point, imo, is he'll 'deal' with them, has done in the past, and will do in the future. Not useful for the General and future as POTUS to have called them 'enemies.'
And thanks that they should be working with him on so many issues.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Also, outside of DU, Bernie's support is not all that firm. O'Malley can take a few points from Bernie and triple his standing.
O'Malley is looking for a name recognition for a future run. He will remain an active and impressive democrat who will be POTUS one day.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)WTF are you talking about? Bernie Sanders is drawing thousands at his campaign stops from Nevada to South Carolina,Boston Mass,Ohio and many more.
Is Hillary doing like George W did ?
Having her crowds bused in?
Boy you (or they)really had to dig deep for tha BS
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)nothing more. If there were to be a three headed or 5 armed person wanting to display his anomaly, hundreds of thousands would show up out of curiosity.
Ron Paul gathered HUGE crowds
TM99
(8,352 posts)has done, I still don't trust him.
His time as Mayor was not good for AA's and the NAACP agrees.
And it was shown that he has connections both to the Clintons and the Third Way.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I've learned from bitter experience to be wary of people who are too charismatic and MOM drips charisma.
FSogol
(45,488 posts)He did give a speech to them once.
O'Malley is extremely popular with AA in Maryland.
From the recent Rolling Stone article:
Some long-term residents like Nowlin, who spoke at O'Malley's campaign announcement, have no time for the Anderson Coopers of the world. "They're using revisionist history," Nowlin said. "They don't have any idea how horrible it was in Baltimore. Anderson Cooper wasn't here back then." He let out a sad laugh. "But Martin O'Malley was." . .
"Every day, we worked to improve police and community relations," he says. "And if we hadn't, I would not have been re-elected with over 88 percent of the vote, nor would I have received such strong support from Baltimore city when I ran for governor, especially in the parts of Baltimore that saw the biggest changes in terms of open-air drug markets and open-air drug dealing."
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-martin-omalley-could-be-the-future-of-the-democratic-party-20151106?page=9
TM99
(8,352 posts)O'Malley has done more then just give a speech to them once.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Martin_O%60Malley_Principles_+_Values.htm
http://www.openleft.com/diary/767/
There is a history of centrism and New Dem rhetoric. Is he or isn't he?
Even the Third Way recently said that while they disagree with his current stance on Social Security, they have agreed with him in the past.
http://www.thirdway.org/newsroom/press-releases/third-way-statement-on-governor-martin-omalleys-social-security-plan
Given the fact that a discussion of possible Clinton VP choices appeared today mentioning O'Malley, I am sorry, sometimes a [ol is just a pol.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/01/1389512/-Pols-are-pols-and-do-what-they-do-when-O-Malley-loved-the-DLC
So, no I just don't quite trust him even if today I might agree with some of his campaign rhetoric.
bigtree
(85,998 posts)...which have positively impacted real peoples' lives.
Talk is cheap. O'Malley has actions to back up his progressive rhetoric.
FSogol
(45,488 posts)Supporting the dream act? Check
Marriage equality? Check
Ending the death penalty? Check
Restrictions on firearms? Check
Raised the mimium wage,? Check
Raised taxes on the rich? Check
Against the Keystone XL pipeline and the TPP? Check
Prevented fracking? Check
It takes a special type of intellectual dishonesty to love Sanders' positions, but to fear/hate O'Malley's similar positions and actual accomplishments.
BTW, HRC will never name O'Malley as VP. Maryland will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee ends up being. HRC will pick Castro.
TM99
(8,352 posts)what I wrote.
I said that I agree with his positions. But due to his history of flirting with the New Dem centrism, I have hesitations and a small amount of distrust.
When he or his campaign do shit like this attack, then my mistrust grows.
Give me one legitimately good reason for such an attack on Sanders?
FSogol
(45,488 posts)attacks and I doubt his overly sensitive supporters could survive it.
Pointing out differences between candidates is not an attack. Trying to paint O'Malley as a centrist because he once wrote a get-out-the-vote op-ed with Harold Ford is an attack.
One good reason to draw a distinction between candidates? Maybe he's trying to win the nomination?
TM99
(8,352 posts)If he gets...far worse....yes standard deflection. Yes, my feefee's got hurt!
Drawing a distinction based on policy? Sure. Go for it. Saying Sanders is not a Democrat and wanted to primary Obama is an attack. It serves no legitimate purpose in distinguishing himself from Sanders except in that all too tiresome pol way of passive aggressive high school game playing.
Did O'Malley garner support from the DLC/Third Way? Yes.
Did O'Malley support and campaign for Clinton - a known New Dem? Yes.
Did O'Malley agree enough with Ford to write the GOTV piece strongly in favor of the center and the DLC? Yes.
Did O'Malley as governor fully support the Hyde Park Declaration of Third Way Centrism? Yes, and you ignored my link confirming that.
Can you dispute any of these facts? No, you can't, so you call them 'attacks'. Fine, I will accept they are attacks. They are attacks against the neoliberal New Dem centrism that is antithetical to FDR Democratic Progressivism.
So yes, he double messages too much for me to fully trust him or his motives EVEN if I like the rhetoric he preaches now. Many fell for that same tactic with Obama.
Which is he? A self-described Third Way centrist? Or a classical Democratic progressive only slightly to the right of Sanders?
FSogol
(45,488 posts)group). There is nothing in it that differs from the Democratic Party platform. O'Malley never joined the DLC or the 3rd way and had an op-ed stating such. You seem to think getting support of the Democratic Party is a bad thing.
O'Malley has always supported the Democratic party. You don't want to trust him? That's your business, but you are bashing a great Democratic candidate on your way to deifying Sanders.
TM99
(8,352 posts)I have studied the neoliberals since they began in the early 1980's.
You keep making assumptions instead of actually reading what I clearly stated? Why is that? What purpose does it serve for you?
No, I do not completely trust him. There are a few things that cause me to question him. And sharing those concerns on a forum is not 'bashing' a great candidate.
Deifying Sanders? So typical!
I want to vote for a traditional progressive Democratic candidate in both the primary and the general who has consistently spoken, voted, and acted that way. I want someone with a history of both social and economic justice.
I do not want an avowed neoliberal who evolves and panders while she takes CU money and pushes milquetoast social justice while fighting actively against economic justice.
I do not want someone that has double messaged so that I can not immediately see that he is who he says he is now. I have family in MD. O'Malley may be talking the talk now about the need for both, however, there are concerns for some of us PoC that maybe he has 'evolved' for the election.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/as-mayor-of-baltimore-omalleys-policing-strategy-sowed-mistrust/2015/04/25/af81178a-ea9d-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html
I have seen him try and defend his record in Baltimore. I have not, however, seen him say hey I fucked up and now I need to do something different. At Netroots, he was quick to say All Lives Matter. So yes, I question his social justice cred given this mixed history.
And I question his economic justice cred because of his past ties with the neoliberal centrism of the Third Way.
FSogol
(45,488 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)He suggested that arrests peaked in 2003 and then went down as crime levels went down. That suggests that he himself ended the policy of mass arrest. In fact arrests peaked in 2005, the NAACP and ACLU then sued him, but arrests remained extremely high in 2006, his last year as mayor. The next mayor abandoned his mass arrest policy and the murder rate came down fast.
TM99
(8,352 posts)It is that type of spin and distortion of the truth that makes me question some of his sincerity around certain issues.
But expect to receive a reply that you are bashing O'Malley or that you are deifying Sanders.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)but I could be wrong. His latest misrepresentation of Sanders has me more suspicious of him again. Accusing Sanders of disloyalty and of trying to find someone to primary Obama is dishonest.
TM99
(8,352 posts)He will say something that I really find interesting and support. Then he will say something utterly stupid like this and I wonder what the fuck?
He will show support now for PoC and yet his history is not very good with AA in Baltimore.
I don't ever have to wonder with Sanders. He has been consistent on LGBT civil rights. He has fought for social justice for AA since he was a young man. He is consistent in his condemnation of the war on terror in the Middle East and yet consistently supports the veterans of those wars. I may not agree with his stance on Israel, and yet he has been consistent with that. And I don't have to worry now that he will pander to voters like me just to try and get our vote.
PragmaticLiberal
(904 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:30 PM - Edit history (1)
Is O'Malley perfect? Of course not.
But some folk act like O'Malley is this 3rd way pol who suddenly became "progressive" when in fact he's been walking the walk for years.
Heck, if you just looked at actual accomplishments (not campaign rhetoric) you'd wonder why he wasn't leading this race or the very least a close second.
elleng
(130,964 posts)PragmaticLiberal
(904 posts)There's a lot of misinformation out there about O'Malley.
Keep up the fight.
bigtree
(85,998 posts)...but I understand how hard it is to follow what he's actually doing when your head is wrapped up in defending your own candidate.
He's doing what he should be doing as a candidate - pointing out the differences in his record and proposals from his rivals in this election. That's what political opponents do.
This thread reeks of defensiveness. Can't talk about the issues raised, so you're engaging in a character attack, trying to cut the Governor down. Kinda makes all of the Machiavellian bull you're promoting typical, political nonsense. O'Malley is running for president with the most detailed and comprehensive plans and proposals offered in this campaign on a wide range of progressive issues. He's actually done most of the things in my state that the others have spent years accomplishing little in Washington, but talk, in achieving their goals. If anything, they should be campaigning to get him to partner with their own candidacies.
FSogol
(45,488 posts)elleng
(130,964 posts)CAN'T do anything else, hard to follow his accomplishments for SOME damn reason.
We are REALLY f*****d if DUers can't or won't bother to learn about his accomplishments.
Koinos
(2,792 posts)O'Malley's amazing veterans program is apparently just "too hard" for them to read.
They should give it a try. They might like it and "borrow it" for their own campaigns.
While O'Malley discusses issues, they do low-information speculation about him.
While O'Malley produces comprehensive plans based on his own executive experience, they bicker over soundbites.
As Heraclitus wrote, "Dogs bark at people they do not know."
Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)Two problems with that strategy. First, Hillary is garnering the support of a majority of Democrats. So he and Sanders fighting over the scraps. Secondly, Sanders has become the candidate that the main alternative to Hillary.
TBF
(32,064 posts)because she is up against Rubio if things keep going as they are. Now if Trump somehow pulls out early primary victories then maybe ... (and that would be if you assume Bernie can't win, which is not something I agree with!)
Koinos
(2,792 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Hillary will choose either Sherrod Brown or Julian Castro as her running mate. She will choose the former if she believes he can help her attract the allusive white working class male voter and she will choose the latter if she believes she can gin up Hispanic voting participation.
Governor O'Malley is a good guy.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)no one is auditioning to be veep. the nom hasnt been decided and not a single vote has been cast. i hope everyone is still going for the win. still plenty of time.
elleng
(130,964 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)moobu2
(4,822 posts)Something he's well known for doing.
elleng
(130,964 posts)Renew Deal
(81,861 posts)What does that tell us?
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)He is a rising star the party wants to get out there.
He attracts Hispanic support.
He balances Hillary's northern experience with southern.
He is not besmirched by campaigning and would enter the GE with very high favorables.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)I don't agree Sanders has peaked by any sense of the word.
Millions still don't know who he is and after the holidays the polls and voter participation is going to change a great deal.
I think we should wait until at least a few votes are cast before we declare a nominee.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)INdemo
(6,994 posts)askew
(1,464 posts)comments yesterday.
This is all fair game. Sanders has been playing up his close ties with Obama and history shows that isn't true. There is no conspiracy theories here.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I can't speak to his motives, but it's fairly certain that eight years as VP would certainly make him a formidable contender. And if the Republicans continue down their self-destructive path, winning the presidency will be a cakewalk for him.
senz
(11,945 posts)That was my clue. But I will add that one excellent O'Malley supporter does not do that (and I think she knows I like and respect her).
I've liked O'Malley, considered him a worthy alternative to the corrupt and compromised Hillary Clinton, but this willingness to attack Bernie and alienate Bernie's supporters does not speak well of O'Malley. It's a disappointment.
They probably assume that real Democrats/democrats will have nowhere to go. However, it is entirely possible that they are miscalculating and shooting themselves in the foot...
elleng
(130,964 posts)We hope others will recognize problems with the other candidates, and support the one who has PLANS to address ALL of 'our' progressive/liberal issues.
senz
(11,945 posts)but they turned out to be (or said they were) O'Malley supporters. One of them trades his/her O'Malley avatar out with another one (I think it's a space photo of planet earth looking blue and shiny). His/her username has a word associated with the structure of atoms in it. Sorry, I'm not going any further than that.
I realize you can't control other commenters, and it's possible that some hillary people might say they're O'Malley supporters for some duplicitous reason. But they do O'Malley no favors.
I hope you realize that you are the "good" one I mentioned upthread. You, with your unfailingly positive attitude, have added to my good impression of O'Malley.
elleng
(130,964 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)for if nominated. In great detail. I am of the opinion she's a Clinton supporter playing games but still.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)Pointing out differences and challenging policies is NOT attacking.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)Because O'Malley couldn't possibly be a serious contender with all his accomplishments.
2 points to this:
1. He doesn't want to be Hillary's running mate--he 'attacked' her as well. Funny you ignored that.
2. Hillary isn't going to choose a white guy to run with her.
As for the use of the word 'attack' I don't like this. There are going to be disagreements between our candidates that's why we have more than one running. To give us options. To point out differences is not to attack.
Martin O'Malley is no one's attack dog. M'kay. He's very intelligent, he has very good progressive ideas--that he's put into action and have worked. I don't think you need to try to drag him down because you didn't like something he said. How about you discuss him and what he's done and what he wants to do. Instead of this kind of thing.
Start here:
Martin O'Malley:
1. Ended death penalty in Maryland
2. Prevented fracking in Maryland and put regulations in the way to prevent next GOP Gov Hogan fom easily allowing fracking.
3. Provided health insurance for 380,000
4. Reduced infant mortality to an all time low.
5. Provided meals to thousands of hungry children and moved toward a goal for eradicating childhood hunger.
6. Enacted a $10.10 living wage and a $11. minimum wage for State workers.
7. Supporter the Dream Act
8. Cut income taxes for 86% of Marylanders (raised taxes on the rich).
9. Reformed Marylands tax code to make it more progressive.
10. Enacted some of the nations most comprehensive reforms to protect homeowners from foreclosure.
Mother Jones magazine called him the best candidate on environmental issues.
Article here:
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/12/martin-omalley-longshot-presidential-candidate-and-real-climate-hawk
His PLANS, NOT prepared by a 'puppy:'
15 Goals to Rebuild the American Dream
https://martinomalley.com/category/15-goals/
Addiction treatment and prevention
https://martinomalley.com/policy/addiction-treatment-and-prevention/
Criminal Justice Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/criminal-justice/
Making College Debt Free for all Americans
https://martinomalley.com/policy/make-college-debt-free/
Holding Wall Street Accountable
https://14d2r744okfe40r1ug1oqm6y-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/OMalley-Wall-Street-Reform.pdf
Expanding Social Security
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/expanding-social-security/
Homeland Security
https://martinomalley.com/vision/homeland-security/
Immigration
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/immigration/
National Service
https://martinomalley.com/national-service/
Environment
https://martinomalley.com/climate/iowa/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/agenda/
Foreign Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/truman-national-security/
Gun Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/preventing-and-reducing-gun-violence/
Trade Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/trade-policy/
Campaign Finance Reform (Restoring our American Democracy)
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/restoring-our-american-democracy/
Why We Need a Constitutional Amendment to Secure the Right to Vote:
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/news/right-to-vote/
Veterans and Military Families
https://martinomalley.com/policy/veterans/
one_voice
(20,043 posts)have. We need more exposure. I'm calling DWS' office. I've called my family--I have a rather large family and recruited them to call as well. I know it won't do any good...but I'm also calling John Carney and Chris Coons.
I live in Delaware so I knew who O'Malley was. I wasn't completely familiar with all that he did, but I'd heard of him and knew he was pretty progressive.
elleng
(130,964 posts)I'm pissed too.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)Think about how he went after Sanders, not being fully supportive of Obama.
Most of the Sanders true-believers think Obama is too far right, attacking Sanders over his stance on Obama isn't going to pull in those voters. But another part of Sanders support is undoubtedly people that don't necessarily have an affinity for Sanders, they just don't like Hillary. I think O'Malley was going after those anti-Hillary votes.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Fourteen vice presidents have become president, eight because of the death of a president. These eight so-called 'accidental presidents' were John Tyler (VP for W, H. Harrison) Millard Fillmore (VP for Taylor) Andrew Johnson (VP for Lincoln), Chester A. Arthur (VP for Garfield), Theodore Roosevelt(VP for McKinley), Calvin Coolidge (VP for Harding), Harry S. Truman (VP for F.D. Roosevelt), and Lyndon B. Johnson (VP for Kennedy). Vice-president Gerald Ford (VP for Nixon) took office because of President Nixon's resignation.
The other vice presidents who became president were John Adams (VP for Washington), Thomas Jefferson, (VP for John Adams), Martin Van Buren (VP for Jackson), Richard M. Nixon (VP for Eisenhower), and George H. W. Bush (VP for Reagan). Of these six, all but Nixon were elected president immediately after serving as vice president. Nixon was defeated in 1960 but ran again and won in 1968.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)elleng
(130,964 posts)he accomplished MANY things, as mayor and governor, an EXECUTIVE. A few of them:
1. Ended death penalty in Maryland
2. Prevented fracking in Maryland and put regulations in the way to prevent next GOP Gov Hogan fom easily allowing fracking.
3. Provided health insurance for 380,000
4. Reduced infant mortality to an all time low.
5. Provided meals to thousands of hungry children and moved toward a goal for eradicating childhood hunger.
6. Enacted a $10.10 living wage and a $11. minimum wage for State workers.
7. Supporter the Dream Act
8. Cut income taxes for 86% of Marylanders (raised taxes on the rich).
9. Reformed Marylands tax code to make it more progressive.
10. Enacted some of the nations most comprehensive reforms to protect homeowners from foreclosure.
Mother Jones magazine called him the best candidate on environmental issues.
Article here:
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/12/martin-omalley-longshot-presidential-candidate-and-real-climate-hawk
Edwards was an apparently competent trial attorney.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)I would even go as far as to say it appeared coordinated...just seemed like the perfect storm that weekend. O'Malley makes that statement. Bernie is on Stephanopoulos immediately after where he presses him on the topic, same day that pure hearsay article with Obama's aids saying he didn't help Obama drops. Not to mention the rhetoric of him not being a real Democrat really kicked into high gear at the same time...
Obviously I don't have any proof here, but there just seems to be a lot of extremely well timed events that give the impression of more than a coincidence. Add to it that the BLM event went down in almost the exact same fashion and one could be led to believe something is afoot.
still_one
(92,217 posts)that her decisions are made on the basis of polls.
The "attack" as you word it, was just stating what Bernie had done in the 2012 election. All Bernie had to do is say was something like "while I asked for someone to primary Obama, it was simply to make him a better candidate, and focus on issues that he hasn't emphasized", or something like that.
Instead, on Stephanopolis(sic), he pretty much denied that he was party to that, and thus it became an issue.
Bernie is not the only one that does that, most every candidate does it to some degree. However, it is always better to admit to such things up front, and then it becomes a non-issue very quickly.
As for the suspicion that O'Malley is running for VP, while that may be, it would go against conventional wisdom. If the candidate is from the North, usually they try to pick their running mate from the South.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)Last poll I saw, something like 4% of Maryland voters support him to be the next President.
Last poll I saw of Vermont voters showed 65% of them supporting Bernie Sanders for President.
As someone who's listened to Thom Hartmann and Brunch with Bernie for years, including 2012, Martin's attack on Bernie for being disloyal to Obama was pathetic and simply incorrect. Martin has really lost points with me on this.
I don't see any way Martin will be invited to be VP -- he doesn't bring any voters with him. Including the voters of Maryland!
elleng
(130,964 posts)as do my friends here (AND DU Maryland residents.)