Asking for 12/hr is a perfect example of the worst fcking negotiation skills, ever.

[elehhhhna]

And a sign you'll settle for 9.75 and pat yourself on the ass as a congratulatory gesture.

And I've seen someone already pull that shit.

[bigtree]

1. worse

...even $15 is likely to be inadequate for a living wage by the time it's fully implemented.

$12 is a corporate sponsored attempt to put a lid on future increases. It's next to no increase as many states move to #10 plus today.

[Fumesucker]

2. The car dealers have a name for someone who comes in and pays the asking price no negotiation...

Barefoot Pilgrim.

Democrats aren't even that good..

[Hassin Bin Sober]

18. We called them "Larry Doyle" or "LD" = "Lay Down" (and take it)

[SusanCalvin]

30. Been saying this for years. nt

[Wellstone ruled]

3. Just amazes me how the $15 Minimum

suddenly becomes $12,notice how the Democratic Party's favorite has slid to the Corporate side and seems to not really examine the true results that $15 Minimum Cities have installed. Do not see the Business's in Seattle going away,seems to me what the evidence says,damn we are expanding and our turn over has stopped. We have endured this Austerity bull crap since Ronnie the Raygun,enough all ready. Just a little side bar,if one worries only about the rate of pay,then one better close the damn doors.

[stevenleser]

4. If you subscribe to the most sophomoric 3rd grade version of negotiation, you might believe that.

Hell, by that logic, start at $1000 an hour because they will have to negotiate down from that and you will get a minimum wage of $100 an hour for everyone, right?

No, negotiating doesn't work that way. If you start with an opening offer too high, the other person/group walks away from the table and it's over.

This is particularly true with politics and negotiating with the Republicans these days because they are dying to present Democratic proposals as too grandiose and costly. $15 an hour is probably OK. But your general point doesn't work. If Republicans think they can get away with it, they will walk away from the table and we will get nothing, particularly since they will control the House until 2023.

[Schema Thing]

11. Aint nobody walking away from a table because of a 15.00 offer.

It may get reduced (but shouldn't be, needn't be), but that is the number that has entered the American vernacular, so ZERO excuse for Hillary to undercut it.

[stevenleser]

13. Obama thought the same when he proposed a very GOP friendly version of healthcare reform

If they think they can get away with it, they will walk away. They would even do that at $12.

[Schema Thing]

61. lol, and so we suck up to them on something this important...

and as I said, something already entered into the raise-the-minimum-wage vernacular...


THIS FREAKING EARLY IN PRIMARY SEASON???


Seriously, stop diminishing yourself for your candidate. You're not an idiot, don't play one on DB.

[elehhhhna]

14. Baloney. I am a headhunter. I negotiate 350k/ yr salary packages for oil execs.

I'm am expert. You are mistaken.

[Fumesucker]

20. Punditubbies are always mistaken, especially the ones on Fox

[Bonobo]

23. Some people think they know everything. nt

[Fumesucker]

25. Yes, they are very annoying to those of us who actually do..

[oasis]

26. While others know they know everything. nt

[stevenleser]

40. You are not an expert in this. In your case, both sides want to make a deal.

The Republicans do not want to raise the minimum wage. They want to make excuses why the deal shouldn't be made. It's a completely different circumstance.

[whatthehey]

62. Do you start your negotiations asking for double the current going rate then?

Never came across that in my 20+ years of contract negotiation personally.

[panader0]

22. If she had out bid Bernie and gone to $16 or $18, that might have impressed me.

$12 is not a living wage.

[Motown_Johnny]

64. Your logic is flawed

because you assume $15 is too high a number to start the negotiations at.

Hillary is giving lip service support to $12 because that is similar to where it was in the late 60's when adjusted for inflation.

If we want to settle at around 12 then we need to start out around 15. If we start out around 12 then we will be unlikely to get even the 10 that most states have already moved towards.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Then why not start negotiations at $1 billion?

[stevenleser]

6. Exactly. We made pretty much the same point. nt

[Doctor_J]

10. why not start it at 7.26? then when it passes in a few years, you can hail the world class

Last edited Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:20 PM - Edit history (1)

negotiation skills of the president for getting everything she asked for! After all, this is all about the president, right?

[Bonobo]

24. Reduction ad absurdum. Look it up and then tell Steven.

He has me on hide.

[Lordquinton]

28. Why not?

http://imgur.com/gallery/hj8IQ

Congrats on spreading a Fox talking point.

[Warren Stupidity]

48. We've got fox's token liberal and fox talking points

all in one thread to splain us why the min wage should continue to be a shit wage.

[Doctor_J]

7. It's mostly just for show. The current parties play bad cop/pathetic cop and make the

$10.10 minimum wage into some major accomplishment. When we get the eventual $9.75, the fan club will be crowing about how the president kicked the republicans collective ass. And the dc dems and republicans will continue raking in cash from the corporations.

[Warren Stupidity]

49. Note that when the Dems control congress

Pegging the min wage to the inflation rate - making it cola'd is never an option.

[winter is coming]

8. Depends on who you're negotiating for. n/t

[Schema Thing]

12. this

[pipoman]

9. Federal minimum wage is a big feel good joke....

If it isn't tied to regional cost of living it is a complete waste of time.

[JaneyVee]

16. I agree 110%.

[jamzrockz]

33. This

There is no minimum wage that would work for Omaha and San Fransisco and when you get to a number, what good is it when it takes 5-6 years to come on-board and the federal reserve is busy inflating the currency?

This policy of raising the minimum wage and the need to constantly devalue the dollar has to be addressed first cos it makes absolutely not sense to me.

[Cassiopeia]

35. No

A federal minimum wage covers those in all areas.

Areas that have a higher cost of living need to fight for wages greater than the federal minimum to accommodate their needs

[pipoman]

47. So what is the point of the minimum wage

It will always be completely ineffectual in the places that need it the most because it has to be based on the lowest cost of living in the nation. Did you notice that the demonstrations and walkouts over minimum wage didn't happen in Wichita, they happened in the highest cost of living places.

[Warren Stupidity]

50. So you are for abolishing the min wage?

[pipoman]

55. I am for tying it to regional cost of living

Otherwise it doesn't work or do anything at all....

[Warren Stupidity]

56. As explained that is already done by states.

The fed sets the floor so that the more backward state legislatures can't totally fuck the workers in their state.

[pipoman]

57. Nonsense, again, it is the "backward states"

Of New York and California who's labor started striking and walking out for higher wages, not Oklahoma. This argument that a (woefully low in most areas) national minimum wage is needed, and places with high cost of living can be trusted to do the right thing is idiotic..imho..

[Warren Stupidity]

58. NY 8.75. CA 9.00. Miss. 7.25.

Any questions?

[pipoman]

60. LOL...Do you know what the term "cost of living" means?

Let's take a look shall we? Hey...look...Mississippi has the lowest cost of living in the country #50. (Home price $224,000)

Hmmmm...I wonder how New York (home price $1,376,000) and Cali (home $946,000) ranked? Here it is...New York is the 3rd highest cost of living and Cali is the 5th in the nation...

Proportional minimum wage should be at least $20 in NY and Cali to have the same buying power as $7.25 in Miss...

Any questions?

[Warren Stupidity]

65. Lol you do understand that 15 raises the floor, right?

[pipoman]

66. For who? Mississippi?

What part of national minimum wage will ALWAYS be based on the nation's lowest cost of living do you not understand? That any national minimum wage will not help those in areas that need it the most? Did you notice that the strikes and walkouts didn't start in Jackson Mississippi?

Oh, I know....we can trust California and New York to adjust upward...national minimum wage is a joke.

[JaneyVee]

15. Except for this part you forgot:

Hillary will have a united party, hence all of the party endorsements, and Democrats will stand united. Bernie otoh will spend most of the time fighting with both party's, hence his lack of endorsements. And getting nada.

[elehhhhna]

17. Huh? Lol okay.

[JaneyVee]

19. Endorsements matter.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. So does proper apostrophe use.

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. Ba dump bump... tsss. That made me guffaw. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

45. YOU WOULD SAY THAT.... AFTER ALL, YOU HAVE ONE OF THEM BUGS ON YOUR SCREEN, BUDDY

YOU REALIZE YOU HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE NAUGHTY LIST, DONT YOU?



DU. It's some serious fuckin' business, I tell you what.

[cherokeeprogressive]

46. Ha. 10 more days marks 10 years at DU for me.

I'm on so many fucking lists...

[Warren Stupidity]

52. Evaluated by quantity not quality.

It is the only reasonable explanation.

[pipoman]

59. Are you talking about his lack of endorsements

From corporate shills, and those tied to huge business? Shocker they aren't endorsing Bernie, eh?

[MineralMan]

21. Well, since a President has zero power to change the minimum wage

Nationally, the question is moot. After the election, it will depend in congress. Will we elect majorities of Democrats to both houses? If not, the question is moot. Work in your own states to elect Democrats legislatures. They can actually make a change in the minimum wage.

Civics classes matter. I remember mine in the early 60s. Do you remember yours?

[jalan48]

27. You remember the 60's? You were well behaved :)

[Unknown Beatle]

36. The late 60's and early 70's are somewhat of a blur to me.

Ya know, the whole 4 20 thing.

[jalan48]

38. I hear ya. The music was good though and with UTube I can refresh my memory loss.

[Unknown Beatle]

39. It wasn't only good, it was fantastic!

Besides U2, name me one group today that was as good as groups and/or music in the 60's and 70's.

[jalan48]

41. Well, I really like Tears for Fears but you are right.

And the concerts were affordable. Santana and the Young Bloods at a street dance $3.(1968). Others as well but I need to rest my memory for a few minutes.

[Unknown Beatle]

42. My first concert I saw Ten Years After in 1969 for $2.50.

[jalan48]

43. Alvin Lee was great-

The first time I watched Woodstock I was amazed by him. I think Deep Purple circa 67/68 was mine. Ritchie Blackmore wasn't too shabby. In those days there were 2 or 3 major groups on the bill. I think Quicksilver was one of the great SF bands. Yikes, I'm having flashbacks.

[aidbo]

32. Most public schools don't teach civics anymore.

Nor home economics/personal finance.

And it's a crying shame, bordering on child abuse. (That sounds extreme, but I'm also of the belief that religious indoctrination at a young age is also tantamount to child abuse.)

I remember some civics from high school history, but most of what I know I've had to teach myself. And I went to 'good' public schools.

I've had to explain what a primary election is to multiple millennials that I know. I didn't even bother trying to explain caucuses (cauci?) because our state just does primaries.

This is why it bothers me when people on DU pan the youth for not voting or not being politically engaged (not saying you do this, but some do).

[Warren Stupidity]

53. So the positions on all matters legislative

held by a presidential candidate are irrelevant?

Seriously?

[NorthCarolina]

29. Seems to me in any negotiation for minimum wage your opening bid should be $15/hr, at least. nt

[PowerToThePeople]

31. $56342.90 is current GDP per capita.

this is just over 27$ per hour full time 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year.

27$ per hour would get us to pure socialism with 100% employment.

[corkhead]

34. reminds me of "single payer is 'off the table'"

[Freddie Stubbs]

51. Considering how states have gerrymandered the lines for congressional districts,

it is highly unlikely that the minimum wage will increase one cent before the next round of redistricting.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

54. Running for the third term. nt

[StrongBad]

63. I say screw it and go for $100/hr minimum wage.