I wonder. If Hillary Clinton goes on to win the nomination,

[MineralMan]

as I think she will, will people who are currently opposing her vehemently pretty much everywhere on the Internet moderate their criticisms? This post is not about DU. It's about the entire spectrum of Internet political commentary. Some of what is being said about her is pretty much over the top and doesn't really have real factual background behind it. Other things are just ugly and focus on surface appearances that don't even matter.

If she gets the nomination, she's going to need the support of everyone who doesn't want to see a Republican elected as President. But how does someone back off from ugly criticisms and then support a candidate? In my opinion, that's a rare thing that seldom happens. We saw some of it when Obama won the nomination and the election.

Many people continued the harsh criticism, even after he was inaugurated. Some of it continues even now. For example, many people on political forums and websites called for Obama to block the Keystone pipeline. Some accused him of being in support of the pipeline, even though he did not say he was. Some called him names over that issue. Thousands of words were spent attacking him for his supposed support of it.

When he announced this week that he was going to turn the Keystone Pipeline down and prevent it from being built, though, the news came and went with almost no notice. The people who had insisted that Obama was going to approve it were nowhere to be seen. When what was predicted by many didn't happen, they simply disappeared, even though their goals had been accomplished.

How far can people go in attacking a primary candidate for President without making it impossible for them to then support that candidate if he or she became the nominee? I'm not sure, but I suspect that, as with President Obama, some will not walk it back and get behind the Democratic nominee, if it is Hillary Clinton. That could be disastrous, it seems to me.

I think that's a damned shame. I think starting to moderate expressed opinions now might help. I'm not confident, though, that such a thing will occur. More's the pity.

[cantbeserious]

1. No - No Moderation - Why - Because HRC Is Not The Best Candidate

eom

[MineralMan]

2. I see. And if she wins the nomination despite your disapproval?

What then?

[cantbeserious]

3. What One Chooses To Do In The Voting Booth Is A Private Matter And None Of Your Business

eom

[MineralMan]

8. Yes, of course. That wasn't the question, though.

My OP was not about who people vote for. It was about commentary. Thanks for your reply.

[cantbeserious]

10. DU Rules Require No Nominee Debasement From The Convention To General Election

eom

[cosmicone]

86. So you'd hide your opinion to still remain a part of DU?

Isn't that disingenuous?

[cantbeserious]

88. Hardly - We All Have Opinions - There Are No Party Loyalty Oaths

eom

[JackInGreen]

6. Criticize and hold her feet to the fire

To make sure the evolutions she's experienced stick and don't fade like a bad printing. If that's going to drag down the party maybe we need one that can withstand the criticism or not be afraid that the right will take advantage and who will lead the whole of us with some quite skeptical and unrelenting.

Unless we need to quit it, fall in line, make sure 'we' win, in which case we're acting like the other side and I've seen quite enough of that thanks.

[Android3.14]

21. People who behave like the Thought Police are antithetical to Democracy

[cantbeserious]

63. Roger That - Constantly Compromising On The Future - Is A Path To Perdition

eom

[roguevalley]

114. ask me tomorrow. i am still considering the bernie with

bugged eyes thread from a hillarion.

[Control-Z]

115. You know that whole thing

was started by a sanders supporter, right?

[PowerToThePeople]

4. Way to try to bait people

Let the purges continue!

Trashing thread.

[MineralMan]

5. It's a fair question about how we campaign

during primaries. You can trash the thread if you like, but the question remains.

It's not bait. It's a question that needs to be asked.

[peacebird]

28. How many times does it need to be asked? How many "will thee fall into line & utter only praise"

For the nominee posts do we need during the primaries? They pop up every other day....

[99Forever]

7. Fuck no.

I don't change my opinions for political expediency and have zero respect for anyone that does.

[MineralMan]

9. Well, that's a pretty direct answer.

Thanks for the reply.

[99Forever]

12. It's called being honest.

There's a ton of people around here that should give it a try.

[BlueCaliDem]

35. Being inflexible is what we criticize Teapublicans for. As a self-proclaimed Liberal, you shouldn't

think the way they do.

If Bernie Sanders - despite his record that I really don't care for when it comes to minorities - becomes the Democratic nominee, I will happily vote for him and do so without claiming "the lesser of two evils". He will be FAR MORE beneficial to this country and the American people than any Republican has the capacity to be. That's what I keep in the forefront of my mind.

This election is bigger than just the sum of our personal hangups. SCOTUS hangs in the balance. Immigration reform - even if it's only keeping DACA and DAPA alive and expanding on it. Our economy. Diplomacy when dealing with aggressive leaders of other countries. There are so many other issues that mean more to the vast majority of American people than whether or not Wall Street bankers and hedge fund managers should do a perp-walk.

We simply can't afford to have a Republican in the White House (and despite your constant accusations, Hillary Clinton is NOT a Republican or Republican-lite). A Republican in the White House will rollback and/or dismantle everything President Obama and Democrats have worked so hard for to achieve for us. They'll kill any progress we've painstakingly gained.

If anything, we need MORE Democrats (preferably of the same cut of cloth as Sanders) in the Senate and especially the House.

Those are my principles and why I will work very hard to get another Democrat into the White House. And despite what you say here at DU, I hope you'll feel the same way.

[Kentonio]

72. You don't care for his record of fighting for minorities his entire career?

[BlueCaliDem]

82. No. I don't. And neither do the majority of minorities in the African American, Asian,

and Hispanic/Latino communities...and the polls are showing that.

[Kentonio]

91. Sad that you're so caught up in your chosen candidate

That you can't even bring yourself to show respect for someone who devoted the last 40+ years of his life fighting for oppressed people. Maybe you need to start asking yourself what exactly it is you actually believe in any more.

[BlueCaliDem]

105. Likewise, Kent.

I DO respect the man, but I've seen his political past. And although he's done some CYAs through speeches and whatever else, his votes in Congress matter.

Maybe you need to start asking yourself what exactly it is you actually believe in any more.

No. I don't need to start asking myself that question. I know what I believe in, and it's why I can't support Bernie Sanders as my preferred candidate - but I will vote for him should he win the primaries. Guaranteed.

[earthside]

51. Expediency should be a factor.

I have in the past altered my behavior and decisions for a certain degree of political expediency.

No candidate is perfect and I won't let the perfect become an enemy of the good.

I'm not one to go down in utter defeat for the pleasure of being too principled ... i.e., cutting one's nose off to spite their face.

That being said, in my estimation, Hillary Clinton is just an awful candidate, will be a loser if nominated by the Democrats, and if by some miracle gets elected president, will be scandal plagued and a terrible chief executive of the nation and will take the Democratic Party into new realms of desolation.

Expediency is precisely why I so vehemently oppose Clinton.

So, the stakes, in my opinion are very high -- I favor a full-throated debate about the Hillary candidacy and urge supporters of Sanders or O'Malley to make their case in the strongest terms.

[restorefreedom]

11. there is nothing to walk back for me

her vote on the iwr and her continued hawkishness makes her an unacceptable cic or president. IF she becomes the nominee, my opinion will not change. i just won't be sharing that opinion on du during the ge.

i really didn't think there could be a new variation of the loyalty oath, but you got very creative....well done.

[onehandle]

13. I think a bunch of the 'many' people will disappear.

And I hope that here, the hammer will come down.



Hard.

[peacebird]

32. Ah, the fly swatter. How 'cute'

[BlueCaliDem]

36. I believe you're correct. eom

[JonLeibowitz]

83. Yes, we should be glad about people becoming disengaged with the political process

[Fumesucker]

14. It works both ways, there has been plenty of immoderate talk from Hillary supporters too..

BMUS has a pretty good list with links..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=780171

According to Hillary supporters on DU Bernie is Israel's #1 shill, a racist, gun nut, scheming little sneak, scumbag, pandering phony braggart with some kind of emotional instability, tool for the NRA, Republican man with his head between women's legs, who protects the minutemen militia, pedophiles, racist cops, has rape fantasies, thinks that orgasms prevent cancer and is supported by Stormfront.

[99th_Monkey]

42. THIS^ is the best answer to the OP that I've seen so far. Thanks for the reminder.

as if we needed a reminder.

The list of slanderous hateful accusations and insinuations against Sanders makes the
criticisms of Hillary look light-weight -- if not downright laudatory -- by comparison.

[onenote]

15. I'm a Bernie supporter and I endorse your message

I also think it goes both ways. The supporters of both candidates should back away from demonizing the other side.

[Thinkingabout]

16. We see some of the same people who trashed Obama and now trashing Clinton and they will not

stop no matter who is elected. They are professional trashers. Clinton will continue to perform her duties as president because she knows which job is more important, responding to silly smears or handling the needs of a country.

[JonLeibowitz]

84. Some of the prominent Hillary backers

who have nothing but glorious praise for their dear leader were viciously maligning her in 2008. Not very "professional" at all, I might say.

[ismnotwasm]

17. i agree with Skinner actually

Democrats, or Democrat leaning people who bother to vote will get behind Hillary-- for the most part. Perhaps not The ones entirely convinced Sanders will bring about a political revolution -- which he will not, but to be fair has already changed the dialogue, both with mistakes -- ala#BLM --as well as his vision, for example putting "free college" as a goal, while currently unattainable, is not a bad thing. Student loan debt has been an Democratic Party issue far before the rise of Sanders, and Sanders is not the only one who understands something needs to be done-- he is merely the most dramatic.

So Hillary, O'Malley and Sanders are not that different from each other. People can get into political conspiracy theories all they want I suppose. They can stomp their feet and hold their breathe and stay home on Election Day too--I'm not. I'm going to vote for the democratic nominee.

[cantbeserious]

23. Your Opinion Only - Others See The World Differently

eom

[ismnotwasm]

38. Well of course?

eom

[cantbeserious]

39. As Was Said Earlier - Your Opinion Only - Others See The World Differently

eom

[ismnotwasm]

45. I was agreeing--did you want the last word?

eom

[cantbeserious]

48. Just Pointing Out That We All Have Opinions And That Is All That They Are - Ours

eom

[ismnotwasm]

62. And we agree again--I don't mind kicking MM's post either

eom

[mythology]

112. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

But it's really inconvenient for it that Sanders and Clinton voted the same way 93% of the time in the Senate.

[misterhighwasted]

73. K & R for Hillary Clinton

Great post!

[joshcryer]

118. Yeah, the purist vote is always insignificant.

Unless the Greens throw out a credible candidate is not a big deal. More conservatives protest vote for libertarians than liberals vote Green or CPUSA.

[JaneyVee]

18. I WILL vote for WHOEVER Dem nominee is.

The other side is NUTS.

[Iliyah]

30. Ditto

[Hoyt]

33. Me too. 2 or 3 Supreme Court appointments is enough motivation for me.

[Joe Turner]

34. As if supporting republican foreign policy

by voting for the bloody war in Iraq and supporting the eternal presence in Afghanistan, and assassination of foreign leaders is somehow SANE. No, this kind of foreign policy is INSANE and those that have supported it, like HRC, have real character defects and should not be let anywhere near the presidency.

[JaneyVee]

37. Don't worry, with your help...

Of not voting for the Dem nominee, Republicans will start 4 more wars.

[Joe Turner]

47. If the republicans are for it, HRC is for it

My help is irrelevant. HRC works for the same people as the Neo-Cons. A point her supporters continually ignore. This leopard is not changing her spots.

[susanr516]

116. I will vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter who s/he is nt

[Joe Turner]

19. If she continues with her 3rd way policies

which she will, there will be no let up on the critisims..and why should there be. She will once again be shown as a political chameleon that does not have the country's best interests at heart...much like the current president who took many populist positions only to jettison them once elected.

[cantbeserious]

25. Yes - HRC Has Only One Goal - Being President - Doing The Job Is Not Her Goal

eom

[pinebox]

20. Nope

and honestly, if she is the nominee, Dems are losing the general. She has no crossover power and will cause a lot of people to stay home. Hillary needs Bernie supporters a lot more than we need her. See, if she's the candidate, we see us getting screwed by both parties in the end.

There you go.

[JaneyVee]

26. Polling at 8% with African Americans?

Kinda proves that Bernie needs Hillary supporters, not the other way around.

[pinebox]

53. Sorry but you're wrong

You need us, a LOT LOT More because many Bernie supporters won't support Hillary in a general. Let's face it, Hillary supporters will generally support Bernie in a general, that's true. However, the other side of the coin is that many Bernie supporters, indy voters and Republicans who support Bernie won't vote for Hillary. If Hillary is the nominee, those people will stay home and NOT vote.
That means Hillary very well could lose the general.

[DCBob]

27. So if it came down to just a few votes like 2000 you would feel the same way?

[pinebox]

55. How I feel is none of your business

and who I support in a general if Hillary is the nominee isn't either.
Nice try at baiting though.

[DCBob]

58. Why do you post here if you don't want people to know how you feel?

[pinebox]

61. Bob, did you miss the entire TOS discussion

and how people can get banned if they talk about advocating for anything but Hillary in a general should she win the nomination?
People have been banned for saying openly on here that they won't support Hillary in a general IF she is the Dem nominee and would vote third party.

[DCBob]

67. So I should assume from that comment you are not advocating voting for Hillary in the general.

I also assume you will change your mind once it comes down to Hillary versus some RW clown. I cant imagine any real Democrat risking putting a Republican back in the WH.

[pinebox]

68. No Bob, the only thing you should assume is that I won't talk about it XD

[DCBob]

74. So mysterious!!

[pinebox]

75. lol Cue it up!

[Autumn]

22. In 2008 people called her morally depraved, a fooking liar, they hated her for her IWR vote,

they said she was too stupid to be President, they mocked her laugh, her "cankles" her pantsuits. Anything Hillary did or said was mocked. All of it just as bad as what I listed and worse. I know, I have some of those posts still in my bookmarks folder from when I supported her in 2008. The proudest day of my life was the day I caucused for Hillary Clinton here in Colorado. Those same supporters who said those nasty vile things about her are today, her supporters. You yourself backed off from the ugly criticism you leveled at her to support her now so yes it can be done. Democrats will rally behind the nominee after the primary is ended and the nomination is won. And I hate to rain on your parade but whichever candidate gets to the White House? Harsh criticism, even after that person is inaugurated will continue right on through to the end of their administration. Learn to deal with it.

[99th_Monkey]

49. +10 well said. nt

[whatchamacallit]

94. Yay, fact and truth! +scads! n/t

[Autumn]

98. Hypocrisy reeks under the guise of deep concern .n/t

[DCBob]

24. I was wondering about that as well.

Some will remain angry and pissed but I suspect most will come to their senses once they realize the dire consequences of a Republican in the WH.

[artislife]

29. MM, worry, worry, worry

Worry:give way to anxiety or unease; allow one's mind to dwell on difficulty or troubles.


Live in the present, not in a future that probably will not unfold. It does your spirit and body no good to create stress. They do not understand that it is imaginary.

[The River]

31. I Will Just Disengage

from national politics. It really doesn't matter to me if the
country want's more of the same. I've got it made regardless
of who gets elected (from either party).

[DanTex]

52. This is typical of Bernie supporters.

Well-to-do, and don't really care about what happens to the country if they don't get their hero. He's basically a candidate for the privileged.

[pinebox]

71. Bernie is a candidate for the privlidged? Really?

Is that why he's more progressive than Hillary with things like college, minimum wage, single payer health care? Things that actually help the average person. Bernie is a great deal more popular among the younger demographics, you know, the people who are in college and have the least.

[DanTex]

79. Yes: "I've got it made regardless of who gets elected"

Typical attitude of people in the Bernie or Bust crowd.

[pinebox]

85. Well Dan you may want to read this thread here on DU

because the supporters of the candidate you support are saying exactly what you just said.

"I've got it made regardless of who gets elected"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=777520

Bernie's stances DO MORE to HELP the average American.

Your candidate is propped up by donors from the 1% and has a SuperPAC. Bernie isn't and has no SuperPAC. Who's working for who?

[okasha]

80. The people who are in college

are a long way from those who have the least. They've acquired, or augmented, privilege by being in collrge.

Your post says a lot about you, nothing about reality.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

77. Oh, yes. Those $10.50/hr nurse aides at my place of employment...

are so privileged they just don't know what to do with it all. A good number of them are AA, and they're working 2-3 jobs just to survive. I've made it my mission to turn them on to Bernie, and they're listening, and liking. I've even got a 70-something "environmental engineer" studying socialism and admitting he was wrong about a lot of things. You're wrong, too, but do go on...

[okasha]

90. How about trying to turn your employers

onto paying their nurses aides better wages? Ever thought about that? Or helping employees unionize?

[ismnotwasm]

99. Hey what general area do you live in?

Nothing too specific, and this is OT-- the Nursing Assistants in my area (The northwest)tend to be African Immigrants. One of my interests for a paper is why the lack of white nursing assistants in any depressed economic area. I work in a hospital, and the wages are unionized for nursing assistants are are far better, but the lack of unions in LTC facilities affects wages and benefits.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

113. NC's Triangle...

an area that is booming, unlike many rural counties which are depressed economically. It's the South: low-wage, anti-union, and many seem to accept 2-3 jobs as their lot in life. Becoming a CNA can be done fairly cheaply (IIR, $300 if you test out). I know some are in nursing programs at local community colleges which in the big scheme of things, seem affordable. Nursing programs at UNC, Campbell, et al. are a whole 'nuther ball of wax.

[monmouth4]

40. I will have to leave DU as I would not vote for her as dog catcher...n/t

[tularetom]

41. No, she's a very polarizing figure - people either dislike her or despise her

There's no middle ground.

[NurseJackie]

44. If those are the only two choices, then you're right.

No, she's a very polarizing figure - people either dislike her or despise her There's no middle ground.

Indeed there's isn't much "middle ground" between dislike or despise. Who knew?

[cantbeserious]

50. Some - See Her As The Worst That A Politician Can Be - Pandering, Conniving and Manipulative

Hence, the reason she is polarizing

[NurseJackie]

60. Okay. So, you have other choices, right? Vote for your favorite candidate. Problem solved. :-)

[pinebox]

57. OP is correct

Hillary is one of the most polarizing figured in all of politics, in fact I'd go as far as saying the most polarizing.

[OKNancy]

43. I think when she runs against a Republican, that it will lighten up some

When the Republicans pick their person, who is certain to be a jackass, most Democrats will rally around the Democrat.
The Republicans will fling more than enough poo so I figure some will even start defending her.

[NurseJackie]

54. I wish I had your optimistic outlook.

Based on what goes on here, it seems highly unlikely that those who have pledged to not vote for Hillary will every come around to a sane and rational approach to national politics. (Apparently, the phrase "none of your business" is the new, and safe, code-word response for the vehemently anti-Hillary clan to express their intentions, and to skirt the web site rules.)

In any case, what I am confident and optimistic about is that the mindset here doesn't represent the real world. The bitter and obsessed people here, who'd rather see a Republican in the WH instead of Hillary (to teach the party a lesson??) don't exist in sufficient numbers to have the effect that they're hoping for.

[pinebox]

59. Jackie there's a reason for that though....

I don't know but maybe you haven't been around.
There was a huge discussion over the TOS.
People are saying "none of your business" because they can be banned from DU for saying that they won't support the Dem nominee in a general & it's been happening. That's why people are saying that, because they're unable to say anything else or risk being permed from here....They're not being snarky, they're protecting themselves.

[ismnotwasm]

65. That's because it's "DemocraticUnderground"

I understand wanting to hang around until the outcome of the GE--if it should turn out to be Sanders, I'll be very sad, and you'll be very happy, but I most certainly don't have to code-phrase myself NOW because *I'm* voting for the Democratic Nominee.

If it's Hillary, I'll expect not to see any number of posters around anymore, because Sanders supporters have the fortitude to "vote their conscience" and will certainly go post elsewhere, as they will NOT support Hillary under any circumstances. There have been very honest Sanders supporters who have already stated that is their intention. They are not banned, but they are not posting a petition to sign to declare not to vote for her either.

[redstateblues]

111. They can start SU-Socialist Underground

and start calling Bernie a neo Socialist.

[MineralMan]

89. I hope you're right. I think you are, overall.

What I worry about is small pockets of people joining the Republicans in trashing the candidate if it is Hillary. Not that they'd vote for a Republican, but some people, and not just on DU, would rather see the country descend into an even sorrier state than vote for a President Clinton in 2016. That worries me a bit.

[zalinda]

46. The people who are doing personal attacks

are just trolls. There is a lot of hatred of Hillary herself, but more hatred of her policies and what she has already done. She is seen for the most part as someone who wants to be President since she and Bill left the White House, not as someone who wants to help the country. As, I have been saying all along, you need more than Democrats to win an election. Even if every Democrat voted for her, she would not win, and even if she could drag along some Independents, she won't win. And Republican will crawl over glass to vote against her.

Those who hate her or hate her policies will probably just stay home. You can say, but the Supreme Court all you want, but that will not get people to the polls. The Republicans will probably end up with someone who is more moderate than the front runners, and she will be seen as the same, so why vote. Trying to convince people to vote against is becoming a lost cause, they want to vote FOR someone. People know that something has to change, that is why they voted for Obama, but nothing has really changed, at least not down here in the trenches, where the majority of us live.

With Hillary, you will get voter apathy. Only Hillary supporters will be excited about her, the rest of the Democrats will vote for her reluctantly.

Z

[riderinthestorm]

56. So you have some documented history in calling out harsh rhetoric here and elsewhere?

Why the sudden concern after months of ugliness here?

You seem to be calling for BS supporters to "moderate" their critiques since you believe HRC will win - that's how I read what you've written.

This is a discussion board - people are going to discuss. Calling for one side to tone it down isn't going to work unless you have some proof you mean everyone. If you've been doing that, then fine. I'm not on here enough to know.

[BainsBane]

64. No, they won't.

The Democratic party, the nation, and those dependent on government to get by pale in comparison to the egos of some people. That certainly doesn't mean all or even most people who currently support Sanders would continue to work against the nominee if it is Clinton. Democrats will behave as Democrats, while the others will keep on doing what they do.

[misterhighwasted]

66. Half the faceless voices on social media won't bother to vote

..in any election.
There will be a new Kardashianesk Celebrity scandal to occupy them when Hillary takes on the GOP in the GE.

Media is not going to select the next President. Team Gowdy tried to silence her for 7 months, HRC blew up that game for them and her popularity soared.

No one will take down HRC.
Love her strength & brilliant mind.
GOP is a mess. Bernie is irrelevant, and Hillary's walk to the White House comes with an entourage of American voters who she has listened to and who she talks to.
Not the media of any kind decides this election. Hillary & her massive base decides it.

[Chan790]

69. I can say, I absolutely won't.

If Hillary is the nominee, the Democrats won't have my support again in non-local elections until there is a corporatist centrist purge and all the Clintonites are thrown the fuck out on their asses. They can go back to Republican Fuckistan or wherever the fuck Al From is actually from.

I will never cast a vote for Hillary. I actually moderate my hatred of her here...I hate her a lot more than I've acknowledged on DU. I don't need the hides. Suffice it to say, there is no bridging the hatred I have for that woman...I'd rather give away my civil rights than have her in the Presidency.

[Half-Century Man]

70. My take on the dozen-two-year-olds-sharing-eleven-cupcakes that is the primary season is.

We are not so different from the Parliamentary style governments. We just do things in a different order. Instead of voting for percentage blocks in the government from many issue/specific-place-in-the-political-spectrum parties, and then forming coalitions to share power.
We form our coalitions earlier and vote the broad appeal compromise republican or Democratic Party into office.
A lot of us are still niche/issue/political spectrum people at heart. We want our particular goals to be addressed. Nothing wrong with that. We are supposed to participate into the ongoing fluid dynamic that is an American political party. On any given day, a person maybe more issue than coalition orientated and vice-versa.
We are forming our latest version of the coalition that is the Democratic Party. This is the time for greater issue orientation. The time for coalition orientation is the General Election.

If/when we see an officeholder or candidate deviating from the path outlined, we are duty bound to call out.
We are owed an explanation by those elected and those we select for general consideration.

Not every critique is an attack, sometimes it is an observation. Not every critique is valid, it must be publicly discussed to establish validity.


I will try to act like an adult, I expect to sometimes fail. My niche/issue/political spectrum is important to me. I think I'm normal. So when I see inflammatory posts I take it as as someone else pausing adulthood for a moment.

[Scootaloo]

76. When Sanders is the nominee, will you and others still insist that he's a rapist?

A protector of pedophiles?
A gun nut?
A Republican with his head between women's legs?
A segregationist?
Bought and paid for by Israel?
An unelectable Jewish communist whose only supporters are white supremacist misogynists in fedoras?

Hmmmmm?

[MineralMan]

92. I have never said any of those things.

Nor would I. I would gladly support him and campaign for him if he is the nominee. I've said that dozens of time, but I've said none of those other things any time. I can't say that I've seen those things said much around here, either, by anyone.

I am a Democrat. I support Democratic candidates in elections. That is what I do and what I have always done.

Please do not say that I have said things unless you can back it up. I have not said any of those things, but have defended Sanders in threads that malign him.

[Scootaloo]

95. These are core "arguments" of Clinton followers against Sanders.

Did you defend him when he was called a rapist? A protector of pedophiles/ A gun nut? Any of those things I listed? if so, I'd like to see it, because as far as i know, you brush right past that ot accuse Sanders supporters of hating and attacking Clinton - see your OP here, and about two dozen just like it.

[MineralMan]

97. I have defended him on many occasions.

He is none of those things.

Here's one OP of mine that addresses two of those outrageous statements:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251753482

[Scootaloo]

100. Oh, your OP where you pretend to have NO IDEA, GOSH! Where the claims come from, I see.

I see you now, Mineralman. have fun with your fig leafing.

[PufPuf23]

78. The candidancy of HRC is the best path for the GOP to win the 2016 POTUS election.

The Democratic Party has/had a wealth of potentially good candidates that are blocked by HRC and did not voice an intent to try.

Eugene McCarthy, early Jerry Brown, and Nancy Skinner (for mayor of Berkeley) are the only political candidates I can recall actually supporting; every other candidate was determined by process of elimination or by voting Democratic party rather than affirmatively earning my support and/or vote.

Out of the nine Democratic candidates for POTUS in 2008, Obama began as #8 and HRC #9 as I viewed them as corporatists. By the election, I was a strong Obama supporter and was more joyous about his election than any POTUS in my life. I was appalled before Obama even was sworn into office.

I firmly believe that the Democratic Party would be a stronger entity if HRC would retire now. HRC is a polarizing figure within the Democratic Party and many of us do not support her because of the trifecta of her past policy record, her proposed policies, and what we perceive as her character.

It is fairly obvious that HRC has more and stronger negatives to voters than about any other potential Democratic candidate.

Sanders is attractive as a candidate as he is more akin to a Social Democrat or New Deal/FDR Democrat than a New Democrat or neoliberal.

Many of us may well not support Sanders with a the wider range of choices than Clinton or Sanders.

I agree with MM that the discourse here at DU is ugly. I actually made my first post ever at ATA in recent days where I suggested that there be closed (to the public) forums at DU so DU members could bash each other and our candidates in private. MM has suggested stronger moderation. Without saying so, my idea is to support stronger moderation on what is public at DU.

I also agree with MM the Democratic Party could have a disastrous loss because of the antipathy within the D Party and the strong dislike of HRC within the DP and in general. I don't think the dislike of Sanders is as virulent (nor earned) as that toward HRC. Many of the HRC could well be as partisan regards to Sanders if HRC was not an option. I do not believe the reverse is true.

The GOP now has a cast of clowns running for POTUS. A scenario I fear is Romney joining the fray.

Much can happen in the next year before the Fall 2016 election.

[cwydro]

81. I'm still undecided, but I wonder too, how her most vehement opponents will walk some of this back.

I've seen such ugliness (which I truly do not understand), and I can't imagine how the most hateful of the haters will be able to turn that around.

Perhaps they won't want to. Certainly some have said as much right here on DU.

I'll be voting for our nominee, no matter which candidate is chosen.

[MineralMan]

93. Thanks, Cwydro. Truly.

[Autumn]

103. They can turn it around. If a DUer can say "Hillary is too stupid to be President" in 2008

and can support her now anyone can walk that back. Hillary is extremely intelligent, always has been.

[cwydro]

107. Lol, well, I was not an Obama fan.

I'm still not, but I voted for him twice.

I'll still admit I didn't support him in my heart, only at the ballot box.

[Autumn]

109. That was me, he got my vote.

I supported Hillary until the very end.

[joshcryer]

117. That's incredibly mild.

[cosmicone]

87. k&r n/t

[SheilaT]

96. Those of us who think she is a truly terrible choice

for President will give up in despair. I know I won't be saying anything about her, and how I vote next year in November will be nobody's business. But I won't be even remotely happy. I'll know that we're on the way to more and more war, rolling back of SS and Medicare.

Here's something else I don't think the Hillary fans fully understand: her negatives are so incredibly high out there, that her winning the general election will not be a cakewalk. Even if the Republicans nominate a true nutcase like Trump or Carson. Not that any of the others are much better. But if Hillary Clinton is our nominee, you can be sure that lots of people will crawl out of the woodwork to vote against here. And everyone needs to understand that there is not such a vast yearning for a woman President that huge numbers of women will cross party lines to vote for her. It just doesn't work that way. Otherwise Sarah Palin would be our vice President. And Wendy Davis would be governor of Texas. and so on.

I would love to see a woman President, and I think I will in my lifetime, even though I'm already a senior citizen. But Hillary is not the one I want to see, and I will lose all faith in the Democratic Party and its rank and file if she gets the nomination.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

101. Candidates are supposed to be scrutinized by voters..even after the primaries.

[MineralMan]

104. Indeed. Every politician should be scrutinized.

However, our elections are essentially binary in nature. In general election campaigns, I support Democrats who are nominees. Always. I point out their strengths during campaigns. See, I want people to vote for them. It's a pretty simple equation.

Those who point out their weaknesses during general election campaign time are either Republicans or just foolish. I don't do that. I want the Democratic candidates to win. The alternative is always a poor choice.

I guess we differ in that approach.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

110. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it. Lord Acton

We do differ in approach. I'm voting for the office of the president and selecting who would be better in that office and not voting for anyone I feel is unqualified for the office.

[MoonRiver]

102. Fortunately, after the primary, we won't have to put up with traitors here.

And there aren't enough of them in the American electorate to amount to a hill of beans no matter how loud they scream lol.

[840high]

106. This is a disguised loyalty oath thread.

[MineralMan]

108. No, it's not. It's a thread calling for moderation of

attacks on candidates. People should and will vote as they think best.