Bernie Sanders: "I'm not a Democrat"

[Cali_Democrat]

I, for one, welcome Bernie's evolution from his previous position:



http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/berniesand505510.html

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. One word...

schadenfreude

[bravenak]

2. Me too.

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. eating those words...yum yum!

[RobertEarl]

6. Hahaha

It must bern some butts that Bernie is gonna be the next Democratic Party President.

Welcome to the Big Tent, you three.

[bravenak]

8. Let me know when he is winning at least a FEW states. Until then

Lolol!! That line is TIRED!!
Bernie is gonna be the next
Ooop!! Fell asleep again. What were we talking about? Oh, yeah, Bernie. He's gonna kick her

[RobertEarl]

21. He won his last election

Hillary lost her's

There has not been the first vote cast in the primaries or caucuses.

And your school like responses are really looking weirder and weirder.

I get that many are butt hurt that Bernie is kicking and will most likely be our candidate. And I almost feel sorry for yall. But the last thing this country needs is an entitled, elite politician in the WH. Bernie is the real deal for real change.

[bravenak]

31. His senate election? So did she. She had way more voters and a diverse population.

The fact that you compare a Vermont election to a primary election shows me all I need to know about why some are so confused and think he is winning. They think everywhere is just like Vermont.

[RobertEarl]

78. She lost the last primary

She ran and lost.

Bernie is not a rich politician. Hillary is a very rich politician. Bernie has served the public, much like Jimmy Carter. The Clintons have made themselves very rich off their public service.

Anyone who would vote for a an entitled, elite, rich from public service politician, when there is a real deal, People first candidate they could vote for, tells me all I need to know about whether they are for the People or not.

[Skinner]

3. This issue of Bernie's party affiliation is a nonissue.

For all intents and purposes he's a Democrat, and has been since he first joined Congress years ago.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. Then why did he call himself a Socialist....Not a Democratic Socialist....a full on Socialist

in 2009?

Suddenly he accepts Regulated Capitalism!

Wednesday, April 22, 2009
Representative Spencer Bachus is one of the only people I know from Alabama. I bet I'm the only socialist he knows. I'm certainly the only one the congressman from Birmingham could name after darkly claiming that there are 17 socialists lurking in the House of Representatives.

I doubt that there are any other socialists, let alone 17 more, in all of the Congress. I also respectfully doubt that Spencer Bachus understands much about democratic socialism. I hope this is an opportunity to shed some light on a viewpoint that deserves more attention throughout America and in our capital.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes

[Skinner]

9. Socialist and Democrat are not mutually exclusive.

Bernie Sanders has been caucusing with the Democrats in the House and Senate for as long as he's been there. There has been a tacit agreement between Sanders and the Democratic Party not to run any Democrats against him for as long as he has been in Congress. Now he is running for the Democratic nomination for president. He's a Democrat in all but name.

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. There are Socialist DEMOCRATS....and Democratic Socialists....

they ARE mutually exclusive BECAUSE one accepts regulated Capitalism....and one just doesn't!

Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]


Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]

[Skinner]

16. Anyone can be a Democrat if they want.

We've got socialists and capitalists and even outright communists can joint the party if they please. It doesn't matter.

The point is that for all intents and purposes Bernie Sanders is a Democrat, and has been ever since he decided to pursue a political career within the system.

[VanillaRhapsody]

19. He is now.....but he rebuked us until now...

He is not stupid...he knows what these terms are....he chose to differentiate himself from Democrats over and over and over again.....and he has NEVER ever ever once called himself ANY kind of Democrat.....never ran as a Democrat....and in fact ran against them.

He had to suck it up and eat those words now...

[Skinner]

22. It's just politics.

Not accepting the label "Democrat" is part of the Sanders brand. But he very clearly cut a deal with the Democrats years ago. He caucuses with the Democrats in Congress. The Democratic party in Vermont and Washington DC have never put up any serious candidates against him. He has the full support of the party, and has ever since he was elected to Congress. He's one of us.

[VanillaRhapsody]

25. for 40 yrs?????

come on....he was FORCED to do it.....his campaign would have ended yesterday......he had no choice......he would never have done so otherwise. He didn't do it willingly....and he wasn't even contrite about it. Did not even say "I am proud to be a member of the Democratic Party".

[Skinner]

29. Yes, for 40 years. And he's been a reliable member of our party the whole time, despite the label.

Anyway, I think I've explained my view enough times, and I'm pretty sure you understand my point even if you disagree. So I'm going to bow out here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. Not according to him

^^^^^^

[TheBlackAdder]

26. A little Progressive history might explain things, starting from the late 1880's.

.

That's beyond the scope of this blog or the desire of most who have already taken sides.

.

[Capt. Obvious]

18. I wish you the best of luck getting those horses back in the barn

[Skinner]

20. I have no illusions that I will change anyone's behavior or attitudes.

I'm just saying what I think.

[onehandle]

23. I know that and you know that, but there are many here who view his candidacy as an opportunity.

They carefully rail against the Democratic Party. Not simply criticize people and policy.

Just to cause disillusionment amongst Democrats to depress the vote come Fall 2016.

My guess is that his declaration that he is a Democrat does not suit their purposes.

I'm a huge fan of Senator Sanders. A friend of mine is working on his national campaign.

This friend and most Sanders' supporters I know in real life do not resemble most of his 'supporters' here.

[Skinner]

30. I don't want to question anyone's motives.

The vast majority of DU members will support the Democratic nominee, whoever it is. Those members that try to use DU to undermine the nominee will not be using DU for very long.

[ibegurpard]

41. Oh bullshit

The allegation that he isn't a Democrat being pushed by you and others was garbage.
He's running as a Democrat and couldn't register if he wanted to since Vermont has no registration by party. He's fulfilling whatever requirements are necessary to be on individual state ballots. He got into the race AS A DEMOCRAT and everyone supporting him knows this. All of this has been told to you over and over again and yet you continue to push the lie. Physician heal thyself.

[riversedge]

4. 40 + years to evolve. Must be a record.

[UglyGreed]

10. Hillary Clinton

I'm a Centrist (leans right) who can tell Wall Street to cut.......me a check!!!!!!

[pinebox]

12. And?

Who cares.

His policies are much more Democrat than Hillary. That's what this is about, issues.
You Hillary supporters don't seem to understand that.

I don't care what affiliation someone is as long as they are on par with the issues we face. Elizabeth Warren could be a member of The Rainbow Party of Zoltan and I'd still give her 100% of my support.

[arcane1]

17. It's the only thing left: He's not officially part of the team, or something.

Also, I hear he's a big meanie.

[zappaman]

47. Ok. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. There are a lot of Democrats who are Socialists of various stripes. And, a lot of Socialists

who vote for Democrats. And, a lot of Democrats who vote for Republicans. And, a lot of Democratic politicians who vote with Republicans. See IWR vote as an example of the latter.

Labels are, for the most part, meaningless.

[TheBlackAdder]

14. What a distortion. VT does not have declared parties, Sanders is left of Democrat.

.


Come on, I am party first and will vote for whomever the nominee is.

But this rancid favoring of one candidate over another is divisive and counterproductive.



This type of stuff seems to be the Democrat's alternative to Bill Maher's GOP Bubble.


.

[VanillaRhapsody]

35. Funny that since Sanders ran against Democrats in Vermont

[TheBlackAdder]

37. They might 'call' themselves Democrats, but there is No Party Affiliation in VT. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. So could he.....but he NEVER did....

And read the OP....
He was proud of it to boot. 40 yrs

[cosmicone]

15. The ULTIMATE flip/flop n/t

[rhett o rick]

24. Some people like to simplify things because it's to tough otherwise. Therefore, they like labels.

Instead of judging a person by their actions (takes too much thinking) they only judge them by their labels.

Sen Sanders has been very consistent with his stands on issues and he has always supported DEmocratic principles and ideals. In many ways he is more of a Democrat than HRC if you judge by actions.

[HerbChestnut]

27. Oh man, switching that letter next to his name from an 'I' to a 'D' might be a dealbreaker

I mean, Hillary's "evolutions" pale in comparison to that. Sheesh. What a snake in the grass.

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. Not an I

A self described S

[HerbChestnut]

36. Even worse!!

Quick, somebody sound the alarm!! Wait, is that you, Mr. McCarthy?

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. Do you oppose all Capitalsm?

And oppose private ownership of the means of production?

[HerbChestnut]

43. Nope, and neither does Bernie.

This conversation ought to be interesting...

[VanillaRhapsody]

44. That IS the diff between Democratic Socialists and

Socialist Democrats

Which term did he use? Oh and on his own Senate Website 6 yrs ago he said full on Socialist...

[HerbChestnut]

48. Yep, here we go.

It's the Red Scare all over again. I'm not going to argue with you about the nuances of socialism. Look, Bernie's record is pretty clear. Let's let the Republicans be the ones to use the evil 'S' word, okay?

[VanillaRhapsody]

50. I didnt say Communist...

I know the difference...

Socialists and Communists are not equal HOWEVER Socialists....even ones that believe in elections***....do not approve of Capitalism. Full stop (***Democratic Socialists)

Socialist DEMOCRATS do. They believe in a balance between Capital and Labor....hence regulated Capitalism and a strong Sociall Safety Net in a Welfare State.

[HerbChestnut]

51. Oh I have no doubt you do

But let's be honest. By trying to scare people with the word "Socialist" you're preying on the same fears.

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. Yes in fact I do

Read my explanation in my previous post...

[HerbChestnut]

54. You mean the one you edited in after you posted?

My point still stands. Stop trying to scare people with the 'S' word.

[VanillaRhapsody]

58. Yep that one

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. And yours is wrong

I do not confuse communism with Socialism....I added my proof

Socialism does not accept Capitalism...at all exactly as I said...if that scares you so be it..

[HerbChestnut]

64. Oh ok.

Here's an idea. Why don't you sit down with Bernie and talk about his policies. Better yet, why don't you do your own research on his policies so we don't have to have pointless conversations like this one.

[VanillaRhapsody]

66. I dont have to do that

I give him credit for knowing these terms...he IS a Smart man. He called himself a flat out Socialist just 6 yrs ago. He claimed he was the ONLY one in the Senate to boot. He never claimed to be a Socialist Democrat....not EVER. Quite the opposite...he was quite proud to say he was not a Democrat at all..

Guess what..Europe and Norway Sweden and the Nrletherlands are all Social Democracies not Democratic Socialist States too

[HerbChestnut]

67. Look

What you're posting is complete nonsense and you know it. Bernie does not want the state to own the means of production. I don't know whether you're trying to confuse people, scare people, or downright make things up, but it's obvious to me you're just trying to paint Bernie in a negative light. The sad part is you're using an old Republican strategy to do it. Win at all costs, right? That's the Hillary way.

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. Nonsense?

Its his OWN words...

Read some for yourself..
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes


While he has proudly proclaimed for 40 years that he wasn't a Democrat.....and even ran against them...

[HerbChestnut]

70. That was a great read, thanks.

I suggest you read it also because nowhere does he mention the government owning the means of production. As for running against Democrats, so what? The people of Vermont liked him better than anyone the Democrats had to offer. Is that a problem or do you just not like the idea of someone outside the political establishment having a voice? That's moot now anyhow. He registered as a Democrat to get on the NH ballot.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. No where did I say

Government ownership of production.....just no Capitalism....


Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism&ved=0CCkQFjACahUKEwjN_4T9-PzIAhWFSCYKHYopD80&usg=AFQjCNHuGBxs6Q8jrXpu6NDPjFDZN8ShNQ&sig2=s7JC9Gm_zTR0KeikfdTj-A

[HerbChestnut]

75. Do you even read the things that you post?

Read that paragraph again and you'll see the contradiction. Here, I'll highlight some of it for you.

Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.

You know what? I'm pretty much convinced that you're just messing around at this point. Have fun watching the forum tonight.

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. Several times a day as I have been trying to show some

Democrats what these terms mean...he could have called himself a Socialist Democrat but he couldn't do that...he spent his career proclaiming he WASN'T a Democrat at all..and even running against them!

Now that his entire campaign was at stake...he had to suck it up

I was even ridiculed for months because I was saying that he HAD to become a Democrat or he would not get on at least 5 State ballots....because they required it even if the DNC did not.

Turns out I was right....

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. Furthermore...

Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]

[jeff47]

28. That's right, it is Friday again.

Or as it's now called, "Sanders isn't a Democrat" day.

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. Not till now...

And only if he HAS to...

Has he said he is proud of it yet?

[Sheepshank]

65. Wasn't

And given his long term avoidance of being called and calling himself a Democrat, I don't think he'll be calling himself a Dem again after the Primaries. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling he likes being an Independent.

[99Forever]

39. Considering how the Democratic Party has treated some of us...

...lifelong Democrats in the last 3 decades, I'm not seeing a downside to that statement.

[workinclasszero]

42. Bernie Sanders anti-democratic party quotes:

"You don’t change the system from within the Democratic Party.”

“My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.”

“We have to ask ourselves, ‘Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?’”

"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

46. I agree with all of them.

[workinclasszero]

55. So what will you do when Hillary wins

the party nomination?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. I will vote for the most progressive anti-war candidate on my ballot.

[aikoaiko]

45. You laugh, but you know it is why he is a threat to HRC.

[VanillaRhapsody]

60. Prove it then!

[aikoaiko]

73. Already done

I admit he may not win the nomination but 8 months ago HRC didn't even think NH would be in play.

It's precisely because Bernie has been working outside the party all these years that he has the credibility to challenge her.

Look at OMalley. He's great on paper but he has been working in the inside of establishment Democratic Party politics and he can't make a dent into her numbers.

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. Bernie has been an insider his whole life

Saying otherwise is ludicrous.......its what he has always done....

[aikoaiko]

79. Not according to the OP. Or does insider mean something different to you than me?

[VanillaRhapsody]

89. How can he not be thats ridiculous

Politics in Washington his whole career...its a bullshit meme and laughable to say it...

[aikoaiko]

90. Outsider to the Democratic Party (and more so Republican Party)

I'm sure you're not really this obtuse to not understand that our two party system has had a stranglehold on US politics.

It's really difficult to come up in one of the parties and be willing and able to challenge the status quo.

That is why Bernie's lifelong status as someone outside the parties gives him legitimacy to challenge. But his life long caucusing makes him a viable Democratic nominee.

[VanillaRhapsody]

91. Bullshit he has caucussed with Dems his entire career

Outsider my ass!

[Vinca]

49. I didn't realize this had been a secret until now.

Guess he could always run as an Independent and split the vote instead. Hello, President Trump.

[VanillaRhapsody]

61. Like all Independents necessarily

Follow Sanders....

Hahahahaha

[Vinca]

86. Hahahahaha - I'm not an Independent.

[VanillaRhapsody]

92. Neither am I

Hahahahaha

Most Sander supporters WILL vote for Hillary....so your threat is an epic fail...

[wendylaroux]

53. I have read

that Mark Twain and MLK were also believers in democratic socialism.

Among many many others.Many many good people

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. Democratic Socialism or

Social Democracy?

I dont think they oppose all Capitalism

[wendylaroux]

63. Democratic Socialism

no,they don't oppose Capitalism,they just try not to let it hurt the less fortunate,with regulations,etc.

One can not work,fairly,with out the other.

[VanillaRhapsody]

69. Yes they do...

Socialist Democrats accept regulated capitalism. Democratic Socialists just don't sccept it at all. Look it up..


Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy (usually multi-party representative democracy) with social ownership of the means of production. Although sometimes used synonymously with "socialism", the adjective "democratic" is sometimes added to distinguish itself from other models of socialism which democratic socialists perceive to be undemocratic.[1]

Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]

[Doctor_J]

57. hey. This is the 1000th post of this by the hillarians this year. we should issue a

commemorative coin. And some clintonista just posted a two hour rant about how the bernistas posts are redundant.

[jfern]

71. Do we need 10 threads of this every day?

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Funny didnt see you say that when

Bernie was on top....just now....sour geapes?

[riversedge]

81. Did you see Tweety tell Howard Dean to sayL

"Sanders is a Democrat"....


I posted this elsewhere but sure fits here:

Its Friday on Tweety hardball.
Howard Dean was a guest Tweety was pushing over and over for guests to say "Sanders is a Democrat"--just really pushing it one by one. Debbie W. Smith finally said it but reluctantly. Another person said?? Not quite sure cause tweety was talking over him. Anyway Howard Dean would not do it. Would not say it. Tweety was sputtering and spitting. Dean went on to say something about Vermont's registration and said Sanders can say he is a Democrat. I could see tweety was upset. Anyway, the jest of this is that Dean is saying Sanders can say he is anything but IS he a Democrat. I thought it was powerful.

[VanillaRhapsody]

83. Shows he hasnt made many friends....

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. Damn sorry I missed that...

Wonder if ol Bernie has changed his campaign website to reflect that change yet?

[riversedge]

85. maybe clips somewhere later. It was great.

[vorgan24]

80. But...but...but...

Reliable...picks a stance...keeps it....

So much for the claims that he doesn't need to 'evolve'.

[Warren Stupidity]

87. Wow I haven't seen this horseshit in day.

[TSIAS]

88. Facepalm

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