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CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
Thu Nov 5, 2015, 11:46 AM Nov 2015

Don't Mistake Passion for Votes

No doubt that Hillary supporters are less passionate about her candidacy than Bernie supporters about his, but that doesn't mean that Hillary voters aren't passionate enough to go to the polls in very large numbers.

It doesn't affect the final outcome if out of 50K highly motivated Bernie supporters, 30K attend one of his events while out of 100K Hillary supporters only 5K attend one of her events if all of those people end up voting. It is still going to be a 2 to 1 Hillary victory.

Passion only effects elections if the passionate people are successful in convincing others who aren't passionate to vote for their candidate. If passionate Sanders supporters were getting that done, it would have already shown up in the polls. Nationwide that isn't happening.

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Don't Mistake Passion for Votes (Original Post) CajunBlazer Nov 2015 OP
That's a rallying cry isn't it? el_bryanto Nov 2015 #1
It isn't that they don't think Hillary is great.... CajunBlazer Nov 2015 #6
A lot of what we are seeing is passion against something. NCTraveler Nov 2015 #2
BINGO. BlueCaliDem Nov 2015 #5
One could argue that DU itself is designed around being against something n/t JonLeibowitz Nov 2015 #7
Agree. The format promotes it. nt. NCTraveler Nov 2015 #11
Here is how it happens: Ron Green Nov 2015 #3
Actually, it's not how it really happens frazzled Nov 2015 #9
Excellent post, and if I might add.... CajunBlazer Nov 2015 #10
What you describe is what has happened in the past, and is still important. Ron Green Nov 2015 #12
Clinton supporters being less passionate is a big surprise to me. I have seen some saying they will Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #4
...sure... artislife Nov 2015 #8

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
1. That's a rallying cry isn't it?
Thu Nov 5, 2015, 11:48 AM
Nov 2015

"Look not even Hillary Clinton supporters think she's that great, but she's probably going to win so let's get out there and . . ."

Inspiring.

Bryant

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
6. It isn't that they don't think Hillary is great....
Thu Nov 5, 2015, 12:19 PM
Nov 2015

....it is just that they are not a passionate about politics in general as Sanders supporters. It has been my experience that the further left and the further right people are on the political spectrum, the more passionate about their politics they tend to be. (That is neither condemnation or praise, it's just something I have observed over a fairly long life.)

Another thing that I have observed is that folks on this board who are big Bernie supporters tend to be further to the left (and proud of it) than Hillary supporters. I have also noticed that they have a tendency to mistake the passion demonstrated for Bernie for signs of wide spread support.

For instance right after the debate, they pointed to Bernie winning all of the on-line polls, while the pundits were saying other wise. It was fairly obvious early on that being non-scientific, the on-line pole results were heavily influenced by passionate people. Later the actual polls showed that the debate helped Hillary more than Bernie. The same can be said about Bernie supporters pointing to heavy attendance at Sanders events. Again (as I pointed out in my original post) they are mistaking passion for widespread support.

I think passion is great, but passion alone does not win elections. Passion has to translate into political contributions and hard work to convince others to vote for your candidate. When Barrack Obama was the Democratic nominee 8 years ago, passion helped put him over the top. So far the passion for Bernie Sanders is not doing the same for him.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
9. Actually, it's not how it really happens
Thu Nov 5, 2015, 12:39 PM
Nov 2015

Yes, house parties can be a useful part, but only if they are used to enlist and recruit real on-the-ground volunteers. Volunteers who do not just work on their own, posting things on facebook or sites like DU (especially if their main efforts are to tear down another candidate--which not only does not work, it's a futile waste of a campaign's energies).

I remember holding a house party to introduce the candidate Wes Clark to my suburban Boston neighbors and activist acquaintances. I had literature available, and gave a talk about his positions (anti-Iraq war, diplomacy as the first foreign policy tool, economic positions, education positions, etc.) More than 20 came, and many were interested. A few went to hear him talk in NH, where he was drawing ever-large, overflow crowds. But I don't think I got any actual volunteers who drove up to NH 2 or 3 times a week to the campaign office to be sent on weekly canvassing missions, door-to-door, working phones, even doing visibility at events (I recall being assigned to standing out on the coldest day recorded in NH history at one event--it was either a pancake breakfast at a VFW hall or one of the large town halls at a gymnasium). This was the first time I got real training, from members of the Kennedy School of Government and on-site campaign officials. It was disciplined, precise, and rigorous. I learned at lot, and although he came in 3rd after the two "native sons" from adjoining states (Kerry first, Dean second), it was not enough to sustain the campaign.

House parties and social media played a big role in the Obama campaign, but it was not the main part. By this time I was living in Chicago, so was close by his national and state campaign headquarters. Talk about organization. It was like the Army. Since Illinois was going to vote for him anyway, the campaign divided volunteers according to their Congressional district, and you were then sent, depending on your district, to either Michigan, northern Indiana, Wisconsin, or Iowa to canvass. (I was assigned a small, economically struggling city 3 1/2 hours away in Michigan, and drove 5 people there--we eventually won that town, even though it was "The Birthplace of the Republican Party). The phone-banking sessions were often so crowded with volunteers you had to wait in lines that snaked down to the lobby and beyond just to get to the table upstairs where you were given your calling lists and scripts. As in the Clark campaign, staff supervisors roamed around monitoring peoples' calls, correcting us when we made a mistake in our interactions.

Engaging friends and neighbors around you is good work, especially in the early stages--but it is engaging people outside the choir, in disciplined, rule-bound ways that have been well tested across many decades by professional electoral activists, that is the necessary element in getting people to the polls to vote for your candidate.

I hope that the Sanders campaign can muster this kind of organization. It takes real-estate for offices, trained campaign staff, and an army of volunteers who are well trained in the dos and don'ts of approaching and enlisting unknown people. I no longer have the energy to do too much of this work, but I probably will do some of it for the general election, once a nominee is selected.

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
10. Excellent post, and if I might add....
Thu Nov 5, 2015, 01:04 PM
Nov 2015

.... after Hilary dropped out of the race, her entire grass roots organization was transferred to the Obama campaign. I was a Hillary campaign supporter and contributor. When Hillary dropped out of the race I receive several emails from Hillary's campaign and Hillary herself asking me to transport all of my support to Barrack. Soon afterwards I received emails from the Obama campaign welcoming me aboard and asking for contributions and physical support. (Obviously Hillary supporter mailing lists were shared with Obama campaign.)

I am almost positive that if one day Bernie drops out of the raise, the same kind of thing will happen at the campaign level. Whether a very large number of former Sanders supporters will continue the fight for the Democratic nominee remains to be seen.

Ron Green

(9,823 posts)
12. What you describe is what has happened in the past, and is still important.
Thu Nov 5, 2015, 02:14 PM
Nov 2015

What has to happen may not happen, but it must if the system is going to shift. And that is general public awareness of issues-driven politics beyond branding.

Obama was strongly branded (no irony intended there) and brought a messianic presence that built big numbers of voters for an attractive person with a bland and hopeful message. The organizing machine you describe was business as usual.

This campaign will have to be different in shifting the burden from a "savior" to a "truth teller," with the attending shift in responsibility for governing more to people as citizens rather than consumers of a brand. The kind of outside-the-media community discussion I heard last night will have to be more and more significant with a Bernie campaign; we certainly may not achieve it, but the possibility of it is what this is about.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
4. Clinton supporters being less passionate is a big surprise to me. I have seen some saying they will
Thu Nov 5, 2015, 12:01 PM
Nov 2015

Not going to vote if Sanders isn't the nominee, I have not seen any of Clinton supporters posting the same. I have seem many saying they will vote for the nominee.

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