Hillary Clinton Likes Obamacare, And Opposes Single-Payer Health Insurance

[think]

Hillary Clinton Likes Obamacare, And Opposes Single-Payer Health Insurance

By Eric Zuesse - 03/01/2014 2:34 pm EST

Hillary Clinton has confirmed, to a paying audience of 20,000 sellers of electronic health records systems, that she supports Obamacare, and opposes single-payer health insurance.

Speaking to a closed-to-the-press meeting of the "HIMSS14" (Healthcare Information and Management Systems Conference 2014) in Orlando Florida on February 26th, she condemned the Canadian and other nations' single-payer healthcare systems by saying, "We don't have one size fits all; our country is quite diverse. What works in New York City won't work in Albuquerque." The presumption is that what works in Canada cannot work here, that local control must trump everything in order to fix what's wrong with American health care.

The data prove her statement to be false, if not irrelevant. America's healthcare problems are deeper than that. The latest OECD data on healthcare costs show that the U.S. spends by far the world's highest percentage of GDP on healthcare, 17.7 percent; and also show that the average U.S. life expectancy is 78.7 years; by contrast, Canada spends 11.2 percent, and their life expectancy is 81.0 years. The OECD average expenditure is 9.3 percent , and life expectancy is 80.0 years. So: the U.S. spends twice as high a percentage of GDP as every other OECD nation, and gets markedly inferior results. This makes the U.S. far less economically competitive than it otherwise would be; but, the healthcare industries finance conservative politicians such as Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and all Republicans; so, those politicians don't like single-payer -- it would take much of the excess profits out of exploiting the sick, and those excess profits help to fund their campaigns.

The American people's financial losses produce exceptional financial gains for the investors in healthcare-related stocks, and also inflate the pay for executives in those firms. This helps to fund lots of what conservatives such as Antonin Scalia lovingly call "free speech" -- campaign commercials....

~Snip~

So, Hillary received many bursts of applause from her audience of people who profit from other Americans' being vastly overcharged for inferior healthcare. In fact, the transcriber of her speech headlined "Hillary Clinton wows the HIMSS14 crowd."

Back in March of 2008, when Hillary was running against Obama and proposed the same healthcare changes that Obama ended up adopting as President, there was a lengthy New York Times interview with her about healthcare, and she was asked her opinion of single-payer. She said: "I never seriously considered a single payer system. ... I think that, you know, there's too many bells and whistles that Americans want that would not be available." Besides, "Talking about single payer really is a conversation ender for most Americans, because then they become very nervous about socialized medicine and all the rest of this."

Read more:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/hillary-clinton-likes-oba_b_4881399.html

[randys1]

1. Yep, Hillary is more Wall Street friendly than Bernie, and the GOP makes Hillary look like

Michael Moore.

We know this already.

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. This looks so Wall Street friendly...

[Live and Learn]

7. It looks like a chart somebody made up. nt

[NCTraveler]

9. I love your gif and it makes such a powerful point.

Fighting together to make the county a better place. I love it. We need more of that around here.

[Live and Learn]

11. Perception can be a funny thing until one visits the optometrist. nt

[NCTraveler]

12. Optometry. Such a great and respectable profession.

Love the gif.

[Dragonfli]

59. It is a made up methodology that the authors themselves say to not take too

seriously. It also allows the candidate to make up any answers at all and does not include one's records, only answers to a questionnaire.

The last one done using a serious methodology on her was during her last Presidential run,



soon I imagine they will have one for the current election, I look forward to that.

[Live and Learn]

61. I know. I've taken them myself. I make Nader look like a Right Wing Tea Party nut. nt

[cui bono]

55. The charts that mean nothing are back!!!

You are nothing if not persistent.

How many people have to explain to you that those graphs you trot out are meaningless? I've done so and seen many others do the same. When will you understand?

[VanillaRhapsody]

91. Ask Nate Silver if it means nothing

He uses them as source

Political Statistician for $100 Alex!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

87. she doesn't want to upset the health insurance companies

[polly7]

2. What 'bells and whistles' does she think we don't get here, I wonder? nt.

[YOHABLO]

40. Yes, I was wondering what she meant by ''bells and whistles" myself.

[blackspade]

79. I was thinking what "bells and whistles" can we afford here?

Because, unless you're rich, there are no bells and whistles.

[polly7]

80. And you see I don't even understand the 'bells and whistles' reference wrt our

system at all. Rich and poor both receive excellent care, no-one is treated differently based on income or lack of it. I wish she'd have elaborated on that ........... maybe she thinks only certain people get the most expensive diagnostics or treatment or that the rich receive them before others? Dunno, I'm at a loss.

And my heart does truly go out to people there who need what they can't get because of the way your system works. I absolutely hate that anyone anywhere in the world doesn't get the best of what is available, no matter who they are. Health-care is a human right.

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. God I love the smell of desperation in the afternoon!

[Live and Learn]

6. And Hillary will ensure that desperation for the 99% continues unabated.

Glad you like the smell.

[questionseverything]

14. it is hurtful that fellow "democrats" do not care that

30 million of us have no healthcare ins and another 50 million have insurance they can not afford to use

thank you for sticking up for us

[Live and Learn]

16. I find it rather despicable. nt

[Skidmore]

37. Do you live in one of the states that opted out?

Do you hold your governor or representatives or senators responsible in any way for their choices?

[Dawgs]

8. What are you talking about?

Do you not agree with the article?

Do you not want single payer?

Do you agree with Hillary?

What? Please give us something more than the usual BS.

[passiveporcupine]

36. I've seen posts here indicating

some DUers do not want single payer. I suspect that means that they already have great coverage from their employer (with the employer paying at least half of the premiums), and they are afraid of losing it, or ending up having to pay more (they don't understand or don't believe that universal coverage would bring costs down overall); and that trumps anyone else's needs in this country. I also strongly suspect they are Hillary supporters, and that a good percentage of Hillary supporters may be against single payer (for the reasons mentioned above).

[Skidmore]

39. This Hillary supporter became ineligible for

coverage after losing my job because I had cancer and it was considered a preexisting condition. Obamacare made it possible for me to get the coverage I need for annual followup screenings and medication.

[mythology]

50. Go look at the Netherlands

They have mandatory to purchase insurance and they have excellent health care satisfaction and outcomes.

Single payer is is one option to provide health care, but it's not the only one.

[dflprincess]

85. The insurance costs are also much lower there than in the U.S.

not familiar with the details but I would guess that's because the Dutch don't allow the insurance and pharmaceutical companies to be quite as predatory as they are here.

[think]

13. These are actual statements showing large policy differences between Sanders & Clinton

There is nothing desperate about this.

Could I recommend trying to respond factually with an opinion on the actual issue being discussed?

[VanillaRhapsody]

17. Yes it is desperate.....

[VanillaRhapsody]

18. And here is why...

Hillary Clinton on Health Care

The science is clear: vaccines work. (Feb 2015)
Ebola won't stay confined; put resources into Africa. (Oct 2014)
Don’t legitimize end-of-life decision, but ok to help decide. (Apr 2008)
Decrease generic drug costs for developing countries. (Apr 2008)
Taxpayers pay for drug R&D, not drug companies. (Jan 2008)
Need a health care system that manages chronic diseases. (Jan 2008)
Universal health care is a core Democratic principle. (Jan 2008)
Pledges to support $50B for AIDS relief in US and world. (Dec 2007)
Worked on education & welfare in Arkansas but not healthcare. (Oct 2007)
No parent should be told ‘no’ for healthcare for their kids. (Sep 2007)
Local smoking bans ok, but no national ban. (Sep 2007)
Outcry if AIDS were leading disease of young whites. (Jun 2007)
Electronic medical records save $120 billion in health care. (Jun 2007)
Insurers must fund prevention without preexisting conditions. (Mar 2007)
Require electronic medical record for all federal healthcare. (Mar 2007)
Increase America’s commitment against Global AIDS. (Nov 2006)
FDA should compare drug effectiveness--not just safety. (Oct 2006)
Supply more medical needs of families, & insure all children. (Jun 2006)
Healthcare system plagued with underuse, overuse, and abuse. (Oct 2005)
Fought for pediatric rule: new drugs tested for child safety. (Oct 2005)
Low-tech low-cost water treatment for developing world. (Nov 2003)
Millions uninsured is source of America's healthcare crisis. (Nov 2003)
Recommended "managed competition"; not single-payer system. (Nov 2003)
Fund teaching hospitals federally because market fails. (Sep 2000)
Regulate tobacco; fine of $3000 for every underage smoker. (Apr 2000)
Be prepared with defenses against infectious disease. (Oct 1999)
Medicare should be strengthened today. (Sep 1999)
GOP overwhelmed by her health reform knowledge. (Jun 1995)
$100B to get started on healthcare reform. (Jun 1994)
Smaller steps to progress on health care. (Jan 2000)
1990s HillaryCare

Hillary appointed 8 days after inauguration to health cmte. (Oct 2007)
A plan is necessary; but consensus is more necessary. (Sep 2007)
1993:Ambitious role plagued from start by secrecy complaints. (Jun 2007)
1990s plan failed after big pharma & insurance worked on it. (Apr 2007)
1990s healthcare reforms laid groundwork for today’s reforms. (Mar 2007)
Still scarred from 1990s reform, but now doing it better. (Feb 2007)
1997: Helped found State Children’s Health Insurance Program. (Dec 2006)
More people read my health plan abroad than in the US. (Nov 2005)
1993 health plan initially praised as moderate & workable. (Jun 2004)
1990s reform called “secretive” but had 600 in working group. (Nov 2003)
When last Republican backed out, HillaryCare died. (Nov 2003)
Despite failure, glad she tried system-wide reform. (Nov 2003)
1994 "Harry & Louise" ads exploited consumer fears. (Nov 2003)
1990s plan based on employer mandate. (Feb 2003)
Learned lessons on health care; but hasn’t given up goal. (Aug 2000)
1979: Developed program to deliver rural healthcare. (Aug 1999)
OpEd: 1993 debate was highest level ever reached. (Jun 1997)
1994: can't fix just part of problem; it's all or nothing. (Jan 1997)
2008 HillaryCare

2006: If I can't do universal coverage, why run? (Aug 2009)
AdWatch: Got health insurance for six million kids. (Mar 2008)
Include everyone, to avoid cherry-picking and its hidden tax. (Feb 2008)
Healthcare without mandate is like voluntary Social Security. (Feb 2008)
Many uninsured are young & don’t think they need coverage. (Feb 2008)
Make it illegal to discriminate against sick people. (Feb 2008)
Tired of health insurance companies deciding who live or die. (Feb 2008)
Universal health care will not work if it is voluntary. (Feb 2008)
Mandate insurance AND make it affordable for all. (Jan 2008)
Health care tax credit ensures affordability. (Nov 2007)
Insurance companies cannot deny people coverage. (Oct 2007)
Condemns insurers as motivated by greed. (Oct 2007)
American Health Choices Plan: keep yours or pick Congress’. (Sep 2007)
Pay for health plan by $52B tax repeal & $77B efficiencies. (Sep 2007)
Mandated responsibility by individuals, industry & employers. (Sep 2007)
Since 1993, new consensus developed on need for healthcare. (Sep 2007)
Include insurance industry in discussions, but rein them in. (Sep 2007)
Universal health care coverage by the end of my second term. (Feb 2007)
I have the expertise to achieve universal healthcare for all. (Feb 2007)
We need a uniquely American solution to health care. (Oct 2006)
ObamaCare

Non-employer system better; but don't turn back ObamaCare. (Mar 2014)
2007: recast 1990s disaster as experience to make it happen. (Jan 2010)
We need a movement to get healthcare done this time. (Aug 2009)
Voting Record

Health care initiatives are her first priority in Senate. (Feb 2001)
Voted YES on overriding veto on expansion of Medicare. (Jul 2008)
Voted NO on means-testing to determine Medicare Part D premium. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on limiting medical liability lawsuits to $250,000. (May 2006)
Voted YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D. (Feb 2006)
Voted YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on allowing reimportation of Rx drugs from Canada. (Jul 2002)
Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)
Voted NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)
Establish "report cards" on HMO quality of care. (Aug 2000)
Invest funds to alleviate the nursing shortage. (Apr 2001)
Let states make bulk Rx purchases, and other innovations. (May 2003)
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record. (Dec 2003)
End government propaganda on Medicare bill. (Mar 2004)
Sponsored bill for mental health service for older Americans. (May 2005)
Improve services for people with autism & their families. (Apr 2007)
Establish a national childhood cancer database. (Mar 2007)
Preserve access to Medicaid & SCHIP during economic downturn. (Apr 2008)

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm#Health_Care

[think]

22. Do you support moving to a single payer option or not? That's what's being discussed in the article.

It's not like the article claims she is anti science or even anti Obamacare. It specifically discusses the fact that Hillary doesn't support working towards single payer.

America is one of the only major modern countries that does not offer single payer or some form of universal healthcare for all it's citizens.

[VanillaRhapsody]

23. Do I yes....are we yes....do we have more work to do yes...

Please show me how HRC doesn't....I just gave you her entire record. I see nothing there that says otherwise.

oh I should mention I grew up as the daughter of a Retired career military father....I have experienced REAL Universal Single Payer...in that even the doctors and hospitals were not Private..

To get a truly Single Payer Universal Healthcare System....the govt would have to take over the hospitals and make doctors Federal employees.

[passiveporcupine]

56. If I'm not mistaken, Hillary's idea of universal coverage

involves for-profit insurance combined with Medicare, not a government run single payer plan, like Medicare (or hopefully, better) for everyone. I'm not sure I've ever heard her say that she wants to evolve to a completely single payer system. And it's the single payer system that we need to bring medical costs down. We need to get "profit" out of the health insurance game.

[VanillaRhapsody]

63. I posted above....her entire record on the issue

Why are you still interpretting what she believes.....its there for all to see...

Freaking healthcare has been the center of nearly everything she has done...starting when she was First Lady to a Southern Governor

[passiveporcupine]

65. I've been trying to get ready to go to town

I didn't have time to check all your links. And I did qualify my statement by saying "if I'm not mistaken"...but instead of just showing me where she said she wants and is working toward a single payer system that eliminates private, for-profit insurance, you just refer me back to a post (actually a page) full of incomplete statements and links?

I did notice at the top of your list she was in favor of universal health care (meaning everyone has it, not just those who can afford to pay)...but that is not a "single payer system".

Now I'm going to be gone for most of the evening. I'll check in later when I actally have time to read your whole page and investigate the links to see what was meant.

[VanillaRhapsody]

66. Obviously ....you havent been reading this conversation

At all ...or you would have noticed.....I didn't post links.....O posted the entire record with one link if you wanted to know more about any of them
..

Of coures you dont know her record.....because you avoid reading anything that doesnt suit your narrative.....you are just parroting what you read some place that did...

Either that.....or its....just about attacking me in general

[passiveporcupine]

71. Oh Bullshit!

I said I'm in a hurry and it's getting late, so I will respond appropriately to this later. Don't try to pull that crap on me. I was being 'nice' in case you didn't notice. You decided to go in the gutter.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. Right.....

Sure....convinced...

[passiveporcupine]

95. Well maybe this will convince you.

From your own link. Everything from last time she ran for POTUS shows she wants universal mandated health care, but NOT single payer.

Now from your own link of her "record"...the only thing current that I can see is her position on Obama care, and this is what your link says:

Hillary Clinton on ObamaCare
Non-employer system better; but don't turn back ObamaCare
Hillary Clinton showed more signs of flexibility on how Obamacare is implemented, but she insisted the law is too important to "turn the clock back." Clinton said, "I have said many times that if we were starting from scratch, we wouldn't have built an employer-based system," But since that's the system we have, she said, it's important to make it work.

Her only issue with Obama care is that it still included employer based health care (and I agree with her on that)...but nowhere has she said she wants single payer. She still wants universal health care (meaning Obama Care with a mandate) but she still incorporates for-profit insurnace in the plan.

I do not see one thing that shows she has changed her position from 2008. Every time she addresses single payer directly, she says it's not right for our country.

If you do, you might want to post it specifically, not a page of one-liners that mostly go to old stuff from her last campaign run or before.

[VanillaRhapsody]

96. So?

Context my dear.....did you go and see what those were about?

[passiveporcupine]

97. My dear?

Jesus you are trying as hard as you can to be insulting aren't you? Not just to me, but to everyone on this thread. You can't discuss the issue, you can only throw a whole web site of old crap out there and insult people.

If you want to participate in this conversation (I mean other than snark) You need to be more specific and focus on what this thread is addressing that you are calling "desperate".

I have read enough of her older discussions on health care to know she does not want single payer. That is what this whole thread is about. Are you trying to detract from the point of this thread?

[angrychair]

26. Universal Health Care

In your cut-and-paste, you have:
Universal health care is a core Democratic principle. (Jan 2008)
Attributed as a comment HRC made in 2008.

This is in direct contradiction to her own words in a New York Times interview in 2008:
Back in March of 2008, when Hillary was running against Obama and proposed the same healthcare changes that Obama ended up adopting as President, there was a lengthy New York Times interview with her about healthcare, and she was asked her opinion of single-payer. She said: "I never seriously considered a single payer system. ... I think that, you know, there's too many bells and whistles that Americans want that would not be available." Besides, "Talking about single payer really is a conversation ender for most Americans, because then they become very nervous about socialized medicine and all the rest of this."
Link: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/us/politics/27text-health.html?referer=http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251762426

Those are her words, not taken out of context, how do we know which one she really meant? It goes back to the first debate and that question regarding sincerity, one event she said she was a progressive and at a different event, in a different state, she was a moderate centerist.
Standards have to matter.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. My "cut and paste" is her record.....

Do you understand that Universal Single Payer means taking over ALL the hospitals and making the employees Federal Employees?

Do you not understand that??? No probably you don't because you have never experienced it. I grew up with it....retired career military father....we HAD Universal Single Payer Healthcare because that is what MILITARY folks have.....the hospitals and doctors work for the govt.


Oh yeah.....THAT will happen magically if ONLY we would elect Bernie Sanders right?

[spin]

35. Medicare has been called a single payer healthcare system. ...

Medicare in the United States is a single-payer healthcare system, but is restricted to senior citizens over the age of 65, people under 65 who have specific disabilities, and anyone with End-Stage Renal Disease.[41] Government is increasingly involved in U.S. health care spending, paying about 45% of the $2.2 trillion the nation spent on individuals' medical care in 2004.[42] However, studies have shown that the publicly administered share of health spending in the U.S. may be closer to 60% as of 2002.[43] According to Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt, U.S. Medicare, Medicaid, and State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) represent "forms of 'social insurance' coupled with a largely private health-care delivery system" rather than forms of "socialized medicine." In contrast, he describes the Veterans Administration healthcare system as a pure form of socialized medicine because it is "owned, operated and financed by government."[44] In a peer-reviewed paper published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, researchers of the RAND Corporation reported that the quality of care received by Veterans Administration patients scored significantly higher overall than did comparable metrics for patients currently using United States Medicare.[45](...emphasis added)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care#United_States

I'm on Medicare and it in my opinion it works far better than the Veterans Administration healthcare system. If we ever do try to establish a single payer system, I feel we should try "medicare for all" rather than any system that resembles the VA.

[VanillaRhapsody]

42. Nope not completely...its micxed

[spin]

48. Well then lets not go with a completely single payer system but a mixed system ...

like Medicare.

I don't go to a VA doctor, I go to a regular doctor just like most people. I don't go to a VA hospital, I go to the same hospitals most people do. I receive excellent medical care and treatment.

In fact why don't we just do away with the VA and allow vets to go to regular doctors and hospitals like everybody else.

[VanillaRhapsody]

75. Because that is the most expensive way to

Do it and likely cost prohibative....meaning good luck getting Americans to except coughing up the kind of money that would tske...they will bolt.

[spin]

89. Our current system is far more expensive than any other healthcare system ...

in the developed world and it is far from the best.

US Spends More on Health Care Than Other High-Income Nations But Has Lower Life Expectancy, Worse Health

New York, N.Y., October 8, 2015— The U.S. spent more per person on health care than 12 other high-income nations in 2013, while seeing the lowest life expectancy and some of the worst health outcomes among this group, according to a Commonwealth Fund report out today. The analysis shows that in the U.S., which spent an average of $9,086 per person annually, life expectancy was 78.8 years. Switzerland, the second-highest-spending country, spent $6,325 per person and had a life expectancy of 82.9 years. Mortality rates for cancer were among the lowest in the U.S., but rates of chronic conditions, obesity, and infant mortality were higher than those abroad.

“Time and again, we see evidence that the amount of money we spend on health care in this country is not gaining us comparable health benefits,” said Commonwealth Fund President David Blumenthal, M.D. “We have to look at the root causes of this disconnect and invest our health care dollars in ways that will allow us to live longer while enjoying better health and greater productivity.”

Using data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and other sources, the report, U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective: Spending, Use of Services, Prices, and Health in 13 Countries, compares health care spending, use of services, prices, and health outcomes in the U.S. with those in Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom. Most of the data are for 2013, and so predate the major insurance provisions of the Affordable Care Act.

Commonwealth Fund researchers found the U.S. to be a substantial outlier when it comes to health spending. Health care consumed 17.1 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product (GDP) in 2013, about 50 percent more than any other country. Despite being the only country in the study without universal health care coverage, government spending on health care in the U.S.—mainly for Medicare and Medicaid—was high as well, at $4,197 per person in 2013.
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2015/oct/us-spends-more-on-health-care-than-other-nations

It also appears the ACA or Obamacare is not reducing the cost of healthcare as promised.

Prices for popular Obamacare health plans rising sharply
By Paul Demko
10/30/15 07:13 PM EDT
Updated 10/31/15 10:25 AM EDT

Premiums for some of the most popular insurance plans in the Obamacare exchanges will have double-digit rate hikes in 2016, at a time when both advocates and critics of the law have been voicing concern about health care affordability for American families.
Rates released by the Obama administration Friday and analyzed by consulting firm Avalere Health found that the lowest cost “silver” plan – the most popular option in the law's insurance marketplaces – will rise 13 percent, about four times the increase for plans this past year.

***snip***

Roughly two thirds of all HealthCare.gov customers are enrolled in the mid-level silver plans, which cover 70 percent of medical costs. Those plans will see varying cost swings across the country -- the cheapest silver plan in Oklahoma will spike by 44 percent next year, while exchange shoppers in Indiana will an average decrease of 14 percent.

Premiums for bronze plans, which cover 60 percent of costs and offer cheaper premiums than silver plans, are also rising sharply this year. The cheapest bronze option will increase by 16 percent on average across the country, according to Avalere’s analysis.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/obamacare-cost-increase-215409#ixzz3qUkUx1hP

We should be able to create a far better healthcare system than we have today. It should be a top priority.

[VanillaRhapsody]

90. I understand that....YOU understand that

But average Joe or Jane voter doesnt....they just dont eant to have to cough it up in advance. It it logical no....when have you ever seen logic get in the way of them denying benefits to others....

[spin]

94. You make a very valid point. ...

I would love to see a better healthcare system but I'm not sure how or even if we can accomplish it.

[YOHABLO]

41. Lots of guys I know praise the VA hospitals what's wrong with that?

[VanillaRhapsody]

86. Nothing.....I am not opposed to the VA.

My father was treated by the VA

[angrychair]

44. No, nothing magical will happen

No matter who is elected. On any subject. It will require a lot of work on the part of Democrats to mobilize support.
Second, I contradiced what you have now said "is her record" twice. She said in 2008, that she both did and did not support universal healthcare. That is of concern.

These are no "gotcha" attacks. I gave you a clip and the link to an HRC NYT interview. She said it, in context, "I never seriously considered a single payer system..."

My father was in the AF, I am very familiar with the military healthcare system.

So are you saying you do or do not, personally, support universal healthcare?

[VanillaRhapsody]

45. And I gave you a mountain to the contrary

Many of which are also quotes ..

[angrychair]

49. Sorry, confused

What was inaccurate about what I said? The quote was limited and specific to universal healthcare.
Are you saying, despite the NYT article in 2008, that she supports universal healthcare?
The interview with HRC, the whole article, leaves little ambiguity on the subject.

[VanillaRhapsody]

51. What was confusing about her actual record that

Says what she does believe....

[Cosmic Kitten]

57. Paste the wall of text again! That will clear things up!

Some are slow readers so ya
have to keep posting so they
can keep up.

Oh, add in the meaningless graph too.
That says everything!

[angrychair]

69. Ok

I admit that I made a mistake in our exchange. I conflated the concepts of "universal healthcare" and "single-payer" specifically in relation to in the NYT interview.
After re-reading the article twice I do think the terms are muddy during the course of the conversation.
Till we get to the end and the difference is crystal clear.

So, to your point, yes she does support universal health care, she does not support a single payer system like MediCare.
Sorry, the error was mine.
I would prefer a single payer and do not agree that people would not accept it.

[polly7]

82. Bullshit.

Medical personnel here are not Federal employees.

1. Doctors are self-employed, not government employees

Canada has a publicly funded health care system, but the vast majority of doctors do not work for the government. A patient is free to choose which doctor they wish to visit, and they are entitled to essential physician health services without charge. Doctors are self-employed, which means they can determine their own hours and work location, and they are responsible for paying their employees, for office space and other overhead expenses. Doctors earn money by billing their provincial government for the services they provide to patients.

The Canadian health system is often referred to as “socialized” medicine, but it is actually a mix of private providers billing governments for publicly funded services.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/five-things-canadians-get-wrong-about-the-health-system/article20360452/

Neither are nurses or other care-givers, techs, EMS, medical educators, etc. etc. etc.

With few exceptions, Canadian hospitals exist as not-for-profit entities.[1] Ownership usually resides with community-based not-for-profit corporations, religious organizations, or (rarely) with municipal governments or universities. Apart from psychiatric hospitals, provincial/territorial governments rarely own hospitals. In all cases, however, the vast majority of hospital revenues come from a single funder – the provincial/territorial department of health.

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. For the record

[ChiciB1]

53. You Know, I Wish I Didn't Totally Understand How This Country

believes the way they do, but I've been an activist since the 70's. I WILL stand and fight for who or what I believe in, but even here where I've felt members were very well informed and not as gullible, I'M WRONG!

I already alluded to a "Eyes Wide Shut" Syndrome at another thread and it's going full force here too! IMO, and I said IMO Hillary's support is miles wide but not very deep. Bernie's support is being hacked back by our own Democratic Party, but I KNOW those of us who support him know the depth of who he is.

Even in this very Red County I live in, and because this is FL and a Primary affiliation state I've been able to convince many people to switch from NPA, Indep. AND Repub. because they have asked me so many questions about WHO Bernie is. What I realized is that I'm not asked these questions about Hillary because they feel they know who she is and what she stands for. So by me asking them about Bernie I have the opportunity to fill in the blanks and it boosts my spirit that I've been effective.

And I can TRUTHFULLY say that I'm getting converts. Where I'm having the biggest problem is with those in my OWN Party. So, sometimes I just feel coming here is like doing battle in a coliseum. Sometimes I think the word "change" is the biggest word in the dictionary.

Americans talk about change so much... kind of weird what they say about TALK!

[pangaia]

34. "Recommended "managed competition"; not single-payer system. (Nov 2003) "

That is what the issue is here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. ???

[Live and Learn]

4. Yep, we can't have nice things here... nt

[merrily]

10. So much for Obamacare was never intended to be the be all and end all.

How soon did they think we were again going to hold a huge majority in the House, 60 in the Democratic Caucus and the White House all at the same time, so we could improve Obamacare? When was the last time that had happened?

But, according to them, even that wasn't enough. We needed many more Democratic Senators because blue dogs--which the Party supports six ways to Sunday. When do you suppose we are going to have 80 Democratic Senators, just to make sure we have enough of a cushion to pass good legislation, despite the conservadems the Party loves to run? Heck maybe we need even more!

Please stop swallowing these excuses. Or, at least, please stop repeating them and expecting the rest of us to swallow them.

Yeah, I know, Lieberman. Curses! Foiled again! And Kennedy died. And Coakley, who got zero support from the DNC, lost to Brown. 60 days or pick a number. So what? Since when is 60 days not enough to take a vote? Moreover, the final version passed by reconciliation, which required 50 plus the VP.

The villain was perceived self-interest, which drives so much of what goes on in government, from war votes to health care. Our lives and the lives and futures of our descendants versus their self interest.

Elect some principled, trustworthy people and things may change. Will you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

24. Yes....I will vote for HRC!

[Sheepshank]

58. "Non-employer system better; but don't turn back ObamaCare. (Mar 2014) "

from post #18

I'm about to leave for a meeting and I don't have the time, but I suspect every statement provided in post #18 has a link.

[merrily]

60. Huh? Don't let us keep you from your meeting, though. Tick tock.

[Cerridwen]

15. "...how might we replace once and for all our fee for service model..."

The author's "presumption" is based on an incomplete quote taken out of context.

<snip>

Ultimately, how might we replace once and for all our fee for service model with provider-led community wide care that can compete on quality, value over volume? (Applause) <underline added to show source of subject line>

After everything I have seen and learned around the world, my faith in this country is deeper than ever. Yes, we have challenges ahead of us. It will take us working together to solve those problems. We will have to be willing to work with people we don’t agree with…even political beliefs. That is one of our great strengths.

I want to see us have a debate where our differences are fully aired. We don’t have one size fits all; our country is quite diverse. What works in New York City won’t work in Albuquerque. We have to have people looking for common ways of approaching problems using evidence, but leaving their gaming, blaming and shaming, and their point scoring, at the door. (Applause) <emphasized full paragraph from which author's quote was clipped>

We are pragmatic people. The best explanation was written in 1920s by Alexis DeTocqueville who traveled around observing this new phenomenon, this new United States, these new people called Americans. Lots of places were grander and richer…yet what did he say we have that he found unique? He said we were distinguished by the habits of our hearts. What did he mean by that? He meant that we worked with one another. In those days it might have been putting up a barn for a farmer who lost his to a fire. Or forming a volunteer police or fire department, or starting the first hospital.

<snip>

http://healthpopuli.com/2014/02/26/hillary-clinton-wows-the-himss14-crowd-of-20000/

I highly recommend people click links within articles to see the context and source(s) of quotes. I've found huffpo articles with quotes from linked washington time and washington examiner articles. I've found the hill quoting the teaparty site. I found one author from briebert whose linkdin also stated she blogs for huffpo.

[think]

21. Fee for service comment is related to EHRs (Electronic Healthcare Records)

and going from FFS to Value-Based Reimbursement. This speech was delivered to a health care IT conference. It is not about single payer.

https://www.healthcatalyst.com/hospital-transitioning-fee-for-service-value-based-reimbursements

The quote on one size fits all may also be more aimed to health IT but it is prefaced with the comments of seeing other systems around the world. And the comment is meant to contrast America's solutions from those countries with single payer, public options, & universal healthcare.

The New York Times article from 2008 is much less ambiguous. It states pretty emphatically that that she had no interest in single payer.

she was asked her opinion of single-payer. She said: "I never seriously considered a single payer system. ... I think that, you know, there's too many bells and whistles that Americans want that would not be available." Besides, "Talking about single payer really is a conversation ender for most Americans, because then they become very nervous about socialized medicine and all the rest of this."

At this point though finding any information on where Hillary stands on single payer is difficult to find at best. But the statement from the NYT article is difficult to refute.

[Adrahil]

19. Good. I favor a public option, but not single payer.

Not right now, anyway. The problem with single payer is that you have to take what you get. Not a fan, especially if the GOP gets in control and cuts it to the bone (look at how the Tories have gutted the UK NHS).

Implement a public option, but no single payer for now.

[think]

20. Canada has single payer. The UK has universal healthcare. I am open to public option, single payer,

& universal healthcare.

Anything is better than guaranteeing profits for insurance companies that are still trying avoid paying benefits while requiring large deductibles and co payments.

[polly7]

70. What do you mean by "you have to take what you get"?

Is there something you think we're lacking here?

[Adrahil]

77. I mean that you don't have options

And under Repugnican influence, how good do you think women's health coverage would be?

I don't trust those bastards!

[polly7]

78. I have every option I can imagine.

I can see any physician I choose, most times, any specialist ..... I can go out of province to anywhere in Canada for dx or treatment, what other options do you mean? I'm confused ... sorry if I'm missing the obvious.

[Adrahil]

83. You are. You don't have Republicans

If I lied in Canada, I'd be very happy to have single payer health. The U.S., however, is still filled with nuts who think women shouldn't control their own bodies.

[polly7]

84. Ok ........ sorry about that.

We don't have Republicans, but we do have some conservatives who would love to get rid of our system, Harper was one of them. But yeah ... I (finally) get your point, I've read some of the things they're trying to do to limit womens' rights wrt health-care and it just sickens me.

[VanillaRhapsody]

25. total bunk premise...

Non-employer system better; but don't turn back ObamaCare. (Mar 2014)
2007: recast 1990s disaster as experience to make it happen. (Jan 2010)
We need a movement to get healthcare done this time. (Aug 2009)
Voting Record

Health care initiatives are her first priority in Senate. (Feb 2001)
Voted YES on overriding veto on expansion of Medicare. (Jul 2008)
Voted NO on means-testing to determine Medicare Part D premium. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on limiting medical liability lawsuits to $250,000. (May 2006)
Voted YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D. (Feb 2006)
Voted YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on allowing reimportation of Rx drugs from Canada. (Jul 2002)
Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)
Voted NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)
Establish "report cards" on HMO quality of care. (Aug 2000)
Invest funds to alleviate the nursing shortage. (Apr 2001)
Let states make bulk Rx purchases, and other innovations. (May 2003)
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record. (Dec 2003)
End government propaganda on Medicare bill. (Mar 2004)
Sponsored bill for mental health service for older Americans. (May 2005)
Improve services for people with autism & their families. (Apr 2007)
Establish a national childhood cancer database. (Mar 2007)
Preserve access to Medicaid & SCHIP during economic downturn. (Apr 2008)

[bowens43]

28. Of course, she is a Corporate , right of center fat cat politician

she knows who she is in debt to

[HassleCat]

29. I agree with her. I guess. Maybe. Kind of.

We don't absolutely have to institute a single payer system. Other countries have figured out how to use combinations of incentives and regulations to make sure everyone is covered at a reasonable cost, and subsidized by the government when required. The point is health insurance is not self-regulating, not a free market enterprise, even though it's investor owned.

A single payer system would be fine, but we would have to buy out the private insurers, and you know they would demand an astronomical sum, and you know our legislators would give it to them, no questions asked. What we will probably do, assuming we have the guts, is tweak Obamacare by adding regulation and oversight, expanding and improving Medicare, etc. After 50 years or so, and a lot of inept bumbling and outright corruption by our elected officials, we may wind up with a system that makes sense, whether it resembles single payer or not. This is something like what Clinton proposes, although I'm not confident she will make much of an effort to do anything meaningful.

[Babel_17]

31. Worth noting, thanks (nt)

[EndElectoral]

32. Why is Single Payer the bogeyman? Had universal care working in other countries and it was great.

[YOHABLO]

43. because it takes away 'their' means of gouging the American public with inflated costs.

[PowerToThePeople]

33. Bernie or bust!!

[pnwmom]

38. Obamacare allows any state to set up single-payer. Vermont tried,

but hasn't succeeded, so far.

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. Exactly...

Take it up with your governors

[Romulox]

68. If Obamacare doesn't work well with Single Payer, then Obamacare is a failure, not Single Payer. nt

[pnwmom]

73. Obamacare wasn't the reason Vermont didn't succeed with Single payer.

Obamacare would have assigned its tax dollars to Vermont to be used in single payer. But single payer was going to cost more than Obamacare, and Vermont taxpayers weren't willing to pay for the difference.

If Vermont taxpayers weren't willing to pay for the cost of single payer, why do you think US taxpayers would be?

And before you cite Canada as an example, you should be aware that each province has its own system -- just as each of our states could have developed its own system, or a group of them could have joined together under Obamacare to provide single payer for its citizens. Obamacare didn't prevent this -- it would have, in fact,, assisted with this. But even Vermont couldn't make it happen.

[Romulox]

74. Every other country in the developed world has some form of National health. It works everywhere

else, but is impossible here. It's not a persuasive argument.

[pnwmom]

81. Yes they do. And Obamacare resembles some of them -- like the private/public mix

in Switzerland.

It is NOT true that every other developed country has a one-size-fits-all public system. If the ACA had been accepted by all the states --- with the Medicaid expansion not rejected by many -- we would have had a public/private mix similar to that of a number of other developed countries.

[Recursion]

93. Well, no, there's a lot of ways countries do this with a mixture of public and private systems

Every other OECD country has a system that costs a lot less.



The biggest chunk of our healthcare spending is services



And the biggest components of services are hospitals and physicians.

Even in countries whose healthcare system is based on private insurance markets, hospitals and physicians get a lot less money than American hospitals and physicians do. French doctors make half what American doctors do, on average, and German doctors max out at $80K. (Meanwhile, the French government covers 80% of French medical costs while patients cover the rest, while Germans are mandated to purchase health insurance from private providers.) Completely publicly funded, totally free at delivery health care is pretty rare; just Canada and the UK AFAIK (most other countries have copays or deductibles, even for public health plans).

What makes all of these countries different from the US, whether they have a public health system, public health insurance, or a regulated private insurance system, is that the doctors, hospitals, and drug companies make a lot less than their American counterparts.

[treestar]

52. She is talking about what she thinks Americans want

So I doubt she'd veto it if it actually ended up on her desk.

[Uncle Joe]

54. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, think.

[kenn3d]

62. The Co-ops Collapse: Obamacare is failing...

... "It’s the kind of scenario that advocates of a single-payer system (Sen.Bernie Sanders) warned about from the outset:"

Patchwork privatization "healthcare" cobbled together for the sake of huge profits for Mega-Insurance and Big Pharma... at the expen$e of and without regard for the citizens' health.

It's not Democracy, it's not Socialism, and it's not really Capitalism, ... it's Corporatism. And as expected, Hillary is for it.

[slipslidingaway]

64. Exactly, the system was not well thought out, now people are scrambling for coverage ...

and/or faced with higher costs. We can pretend to blame this on the Repubs, but it was a flawed bill.


http://www.democracynow.org/2015/11/3/the_co_ops_collapse_how_gop

"As the Obamacare open enrollment period begins, it’s the end for many healthcare co-ops, leaving hundreds of thousands of people scrambling to find coverage. The co-ops were founded to offer a cheaper alternative on insurance exchanges after Democrats stopped demanding a public option. But since going live three years ago, the co-ops have faced major cutbacks from the Republican-controlled Congress. Now the system is faltering, with at least eight health insurance co-ops shutting down. The co-op closures have left some 500,000 people without insurance—and a marketplace of fewer choices and higher prices. It’s the kind of scenario that advocates of a single-payer system warned about from the outset: With Obamacare relying on for-profit insurance companies to provide coverage, the market will find a way to squeeze out those who need it most. We are joined by three guests: physician, professor and single-payer advocate Dr. Steffie Woolhandler; Wendell Potter, a former insurance executive turned whistleblower; and Julia Hutchins, chief executive officer of Colorado HealthOP, a consumer-directed, nonprofit health cooperative in Colorado that was forced to shut down last month."

[Mnpaul]

76. A lot of people in my state aren't happy about it now

Many are seeing a 50% increase in premiums. My employers coverage would require me to pay 50% of my take home pay. I looked at the exchange, I could afford a policy there but I could not afford to use it. At least I didn't have to pay a penalty for not having this crap. The idiots running our state exchange seem to think the higher rates will bring more people in. They also can't understand why people are opting for the high deductible plans. Duh, that is all they can afford. I guess when you are overpaid for being a clueless idiot that isn't a problem. This will not turn out well for Democrats.

[slipslidingaway]

92. Our premiums will increase 50% in 2016 ....

we looked at the exchanges, but since my husband has had two stem cell transplants for acute leukemia and we are very much aware of the best providers and do not want to rock the boat too much, we'll go with the increased costs. But we are slipping rapidly.

HC is one of our largest expenses, we need to look at a national, Not for Profit HC system.

[Romulox]

67. Have you even *considered* the Insurance Companies' profits???? Hillary has! nt

[jwirr]

98. The whole single payer system has been based on considering

the insurance companies profits for years.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

88. This country must have a single payer health system

healthcare is a right.

If politicians continue to support the private health insurance companies then it is obvious that these companies are the masters.