Does Bernie Sanders Expect to Be the Nominee?

[MineralMan]

Personally, I think not. I think he's a realist when it comes to elections. I think he is achieving his goals on a daily basis in this campaign by raising issues that help shift Hillary Clinton to the left.

I don't think he ever expected to actually be the Democratic nominee for the office. I think he still does not expect it. He's a very smart man. He follows politics. He sees the same polls we all see.

He's doing a yeoman's job of what he set out to do. I hope he continues to exert pressure as long as possible.

Note: This is my personal opinion. I cannot speak for Bernie Sanders. Your opinion on this might differ from mine.

[bravenak]

1. Of course not.

Will the poll numbers, I do not see how he can expect it.

[RobertEarl]

96. Obama can't get elected

His poll numbers in 2007 were even lower than Bernie's!!

He should have just quit right then and there!!

~~~~~~~~~~

As for Bernie and what he believes, of course he knew coming in the chances were slim, but the way things are going he knows he has a shot.

As an example.... in 2007, I didn't have a candidate until well into spring of 2008, and did not campaign for anyone until late 2008. Present day, I am campaigning for Bernie and people are either for him, or agree to check him out further.

Trump is a clown, say my people, and Hillary brings a frown.

I am gonna love it when all the Bernie haters end up voting for him.

[NurseJackie]

2. Agreed.

Totally.
Completely.
100%.

[merrily]

3. Watching DUers pretend to know what is in Bernie's head should be entertaining.

Not the least bit enlightening, though.

Let me guess. Hillary's supporters will say Bernie would leap off a cliff if he won the primary, praising Hillary on his way down and telling his supporters to do the same, in honor of his memory.

Bernie's supporters will say, "Of course he expects to win. He would not be asking us to sacrifice or keep up the killing schedule he's been keeping up just for performance art. And, win, lose or draw, spreading his message is worth it."

[arcane1]

4. Why aren't you asking the same question about O'Malley?

Very telling.

[MineralMan]

16. O'Malley knows he will not be the nominee.

There's not a chance of it in any world I recognize. So, I didn't mention him at all.

[DianeK]

99. come on mineralman...

I see by your profile that you are old enough to know that at this stage of the game..anything can happen..O'Malley could definitely be the nominee..any one of these people could be the nominee

[whatchamacallit]

5. Obviously, he's taking our money and time in a secret effort to improve Hillary

Thanks for informing us of his real agenda.

[virtualobserver]

55. Thank god we found out in time

What fools we have been.

[dmosh42]

6. I hope that's not the case, because like Obama, I don't think what Hillary says now will.....

mean anything later. I seem to recall Obama saying he would go for single-payer, or at least the 'public-option' on health care. Then when it counted, he turned it over to the Senate crowd who brought in the people from the insurance industry to write the law. They think we have short memories, and maybe that's right too.

[Walk away]

12. That's right! Why didn't he magically make single payer?

Why couldn't Obama just wave his wand and make the votes add up! Why couldn't Obama magically make Edward Kennedy live forever? Why didn't he blink and turn Lieberman into a Democrat?

I'm sure Bernie could have done all of those things by just waving his arms over his head and shouting!

[think]

14. Obama didn't even allow John Conyers to discuss single payer. You can't get what you don't fight for

Until Americans understand what their being denied single payer won't happen. Once Americans learn and understand the benefits it will be a hell of fight.

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. No he didn't.....I supported HER then for the very reason that SHE was closer

to Universal Single Payer than he was at the time.....

[NCTraveler]

7. Two months ago I would have agreed with you.

With Sanders now finding interest in polling and realizing there are two other people going for the same position I'm not so sure. I still haven't seen any action in the way of PACs. That really makes me question if there really is any support out there for him other than what we see.

Either way, if what you say is correct or not, he is doing an amazing job building up the democratic brand. He is getting the message out and doing it with the seriousness it deserves. I like Sanders a lot and there is a lot of good coming out of what he is doing no matter the reason. Support for all of our ideas are built ground up from the spoken word. Our candidates are doing great in this cycle.

[1StrongBlackMan]

83. I largely agree with you, ...

He is doing an amazing job getting the need for change message out and doing it with the seriousness it deserves.

I, also, like a lot about Sanders and support for all of our (i.e., those of the Democratic candidates) ideas are built ground up from the spoken word. However, his steadfast refusal to identify with (as opposed to caucus with) the Democratic Party is not doing much for the Democratic brand. In fact, I'd argue, with DU as evidence, his approach is damaging the Democratic brand, as it appears that the ideas (even the shared idea) are outside of Democratic Party.

[NCTraveler]

90. Tagging to reply later.

Second paragraph of yours is important. Thanks.

[NCTraveler]

97. I have thought a lot about this over the last month and have trouble getting my thoughts out.

Is Sanders helping the brand?

I have said he is throughout the primary season. I believe during the debate he did very well at sticking with a message that resonates with democrats. Even if his ideas go outside of what we often work on he was so short on ideas, while being big on concepts, that it stayed within what the party fights for. He really didn't promote policy, he promoted ideals. Those ideals were well within the scope of the party. I have a feeling that wouldn't be the case if he elaborated.

He is doing the same as he crosses the country. Grand ideas with limited policy. The ideas are grounded in the principals of the party.

Next are what I am going to say are positive and negative. That is a certain section of his base that could give a shit less about anything other than crippling the country economically. I find them to be a truly horrifying group. They are one of the more narcissistic groups in politics today even though they claim to be the exact opposite. A couple of months ago they really reared their ugly heads. All efforts in their direction for the most part are a waste of party resources and they belong with Paul. They are isolationist who never met someone outside of their own neighborhood they like. The only reason they like their neighbor is because of the ten foot fence and moat they built around their property.

Can you tell I'm not fond of isolationists? Well, they are a big part of who he original brought in and they are still around attempting to co-opt the party. I say that doesn't overcome the positives for the party because they are ineffectual at every thing they do. They are making a lot of noise and have no clue people are appalled by them, though they have become more confident. In the meantime, many of them are very young and received a serious education on social justice to start this process. Now most didn't give a shit, but I truly believe some did. That is important.

I believe what we are seeing as far as Sanders support to this point are people who would be Kucinich supporters in past years combined with the people I mentioned above. The Kuch supporters are some of the best we have in my opinion. They are staunch democrats who want to pull the party to the left. They are there every cycle and always support the party, for the most part.

I really want to get my thoughts together on this. As I type I'm sitting here asking myself why I have been saying over and over again he is helping the brand. It seems what I have described here is a wash at best. Might have even elevated the group I unflatteringly mentioned in a previous paragraph. It seems my argument for why he is great for the brand isn't really that solid. Damn near incoherent.

[Maven]

8. This is so condescending.

"Does he reaaaaaaaaally expect to be the nominee? Of course not."

I don't think Bernie expects to win. I think he's running a great campaign so far though, and has mounted a far more credible challenge to Hillary than most people expected. Don't you agree? It's a bit early to declare victory.

[MineralMan]

22. It's not condescension. It's politics as it is.

Bernie Sanders is not a novice at politics. While he doesn't have a lot of experience on a national stage, he's won many elections. He's not some eternal optimist. He has done extremely well, and somewhat better than I expected, but he appears to have reached his peak levels of voter support, based on polling.

He remains an idealist, and wants the country to shift toward the left. That's a lofty goal and one I'm sure he takes very seriously. In reality, he is accomplishing that to some degree. Perhaps that's his legacy.

[TheProgressive]

31. What's Clinton's experience?

"Hillary Clinton is not a novice at politics. While she does have 4 years experience as SOS on the national stage, she's only won one election (as Senator). She's not some eternal optimist. She has done extremely well, and somewhat better than I expected, but she appears to have reached his peak levels of voter support, based on previous failure as a presidential candidate".

It is such a joke these Sander's (subtle) hit pieces. Sanders took the time to think about his presidential run and *decided* to run for president. He is in it to win it. To suggest that Sanders is not really running to win is an insult to him and his supporters. Sanders is a statesman and wants to be president as the Political revolution is in operation.

We need a president who will fight for the people (that is, ALL people), use the bully pulpit, and *sign* bills that carries out his and the people's policy vision while vetoing bills that harm America and Americans.

[VanillaRhapsody]

35. Her experience?

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

[Walk away]

9. I'm sure he knows that it would destroy the Democratic party with a ...

down ticket fiasco. How could he possibly run as the leader of a party that he has continuously disparaged and compared to the GOP?
Imagine the losses in the Senate and the House with a candidate for POTUS who has gone on record many times with his distain for Democrats in Congress.
Not only can he not win a general election but he would hand our future to the GOP for generations. He's not stupid. He knows he can't actually do the job. He is just making a power play to get his agenda through when Hillary wins. I think he's actually surprised he's pulled this off so far.

[zalinda]

20. That's a load

You do know that a lot of people don't carry the badge of Democrat or Republican any more, and don't want to. Both the Democrats and Republicans have left their core tenets swinging in the breeze. These tenets were the reason people joined the party, and were loyal to the parties.

I didn't leave the Democratic party, it left me. I no longer believe in the party that elected Obama or is pushing Hillary. Obama has done very little to help the 99%, but he has talked a good game. Hillary will be more of the same. Those who are prospering under Obama, will vote for Hillary. But those of us who have been left by the wayside, know that Bernie is our only hope to see any type of progress in making our lives better.

I can't for the life of me figure out why any one would vote for a person who is only interested in (kind of) social equality for the 99%, but none of the economic equality for the 99%. That is Hillary, and has been Obama. With Hillary, life for the poor, will not get better, and I expect will get worse. With Hillary, there is no hope.

Z

[brooklynite]

24. "I didn't leave the Democratic party, it left me"

It must be fun to have something in common with Ronald Reagan...

[frylock]

33. I live in California. Guess that I have something in common with Reagan as well.

[zalinda]

43. As expected, snark answer. eom

[brooklynite]

46. Snark if you want it to be...

...as for me, I would never let the Party leave me. It's still far better that the Republican alternative in a system where only two Parties are viable. I'll work within the Party system to change it, rather than lament the evil conspiracy that secretly runs everything.

[zalinda]

53. Money took the party away from the people

and Hillary will not change that. The party is destroying itself. Politicians need money to run, big money gives it to them. No amount of working from the inside will change that. End of story.

Hillary goal is to become President, after that, it is business as usual.

Z

[saturnsring]

42. right because bernie will magically weave his agenda through congress and get everything

passed and we'll all be on easy street.

" there is no hope." diving head first off hyperbole bridge

it is the left's inconsistent voting that wrought this- if the left doesn't vote (for dems) dem pols have to go more to the right to get more of the moderate's and indie's votes since they cant count on the left to vote consistently. remember 2010

[zalinda]

48. No, but at least he'll try.

Hillary wants to be President, and will say anything to achieve that goal. Then what? Nothing. She will have gone down in history as the first woman President. Big deal. She will be as effective as Obama at doing nothing for the poor. They have absolutely no empathy for the poor, maybe they believe the poor have brought it on themselves, so why do anything for them.

As for your 2010 meme, that's been disproved time and time again. It was the Indies and the sporadic voters who didn't turn up. And, why would they? Obama made a lot of promises and then completely forgot them when he became President. How many promises has even attempted to keep? Lefties always show up to vote, even if they have to hold their noses. They are usually the ones who work for campaigns too. But, keep insulting them, that will make them want to vote all the more for Hillary.

Z

[saturnsring]

75. 2010 wasnt "disproven" the left stayed home and is now rewriting history

the indies themselves don't make or break elections. voter turnout in 2010 was 37% - 63% of the voting age population stayed home and youre gonna tell me they were all indies. stop lying to yourself

your 1st paragraph is all nothing but prognostication and no proof. you should market that crystal ball of yours.

btw "trying" to get stuff through doesn't mean anything - in your world Obama is a republican and he still couldn't get anything done

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Maybe....but apparently the Democrats WANT her to be President too...

[Walk away]

92. I think Bernie Sander's supporters have made his campaign all about Hillary Hate so....

they are either real Democrats who will support the nominee or they are something else. I don't know what it is but when you are a member of a party you vote to help the party govern, not destroy it.

I always vote for the Democrat running. I don't feel supported by or loyal to anyone who tears it down and offers nothing to replace it with.

[zalinda]

94. I don't hate her

I just don't like almost all of her economic issues, at least from what I can tell. I still have no idea what she stands for. All I know is that she is definitely a woman and has a vagina, and hates shouting. The rest of it is up in the air depending on any given day. Take gun control, she is against it in America (I guess) but, has no problem pointing those same guns at people in other countries.

Z

[Walk away]

59. I get it. You are too pure to choose someone who can make the system work in our favor because....

politics is hardball and it takes compromise, power play and a fighting instinct to get anything done. So you choose someone to lead the Democratic party who hates the party and does not support it in any way and does not belong to it because, that is pure. I like functioning government and liberal Supreme Courts.

I think it's obvious that Bernie doesn't have a ghost of a chance of winning the nomination and I, for one, am happy and relieved. You are not.

[AgingAmerican]

79. The party is on life support right now

The party is creeping rightward. How dare he point out right wingism in the Democratic party! The nerve of the guy!

List the benefits of right wingism in the Democratic party. There are none.

[RoccoR5955]

10. Would anyone work as hard for the nomination

if s/he didn't think that s/he could win?
He sees the same polls, but perhaps he sees that the methodology of these polls are flawed in one way or another, to get the result that the pollster wants. This is something that a lot of folks are extremely blind to afaic.

[think]

11. No. He never expected to win. Still he's working hard to earn that right & doing it in an honorable

way.

And by that I don't mean he doesn't think he can win. He just wouldn't be as presumptuous as to just expect it.

Big difference...

[onehandle]

13. Not a chance. nt

[procon]

15. I've come to the same conclusion.

He never really worked at running a successful campaign, but his populist appeal is attracting more attention than the convoluted politicking necessary to win the nomination. Most people don't understand that the whole party system is rigged to the benefit of the old guard power brokers. They probably don't even care.

Sanders and I are both of a similar age group, the products of an era where consciousness rising was a grand and noble calling. I think he's always been in that mode, and it fits him well, he's very good at getting his point across and delivering his message.

If he has no other purpose, his success will be told in how he was able to pull the Democrats back to the left, back to our roots. That's something that many people have either forgotten, or given up on because, let's face it, the GOP is so much better at marketing their brand that they simply drowned out everything else and most Dems were dragged along for the ride.

A lot of young people like Sanders, and its wonderful to see all the renewed activism. I hope they are seriously in it for the long haul, not just to applaud the candidate, but to do the hard job of compelling our politicians to change and focus getting the government away from corporate capitalism to putting people first.

[Kalidurga]

17. You seem obsessed with talking about how impossible it is for Bernie to win.

I have to wonder why that is. If Hillary is a shoe in then what Bernie is or isn't doing shouldn't be a problem to even bother posting about.

[arcane1]

18. When all else fails, try to depress turnout.

Clear as day

[Kalidurga]

19. It's just really odd all the Hillary people talking about this being impossible.

Very very odd. Oh and if you want a real laugh go see the thread on Hillary being an underdog candidate even though she is the presumptive nominee.

[CheshireDog]

25. That's because it has become next to impossible

It's clear now that Hillary is consolidating support. She's above 50% in almost all recent national and state polls. There are states where she's in the 70s with Sanders in the high teens. It would take a miracle to close that gap.

I don't want Sanders to drop out because I don't want Hillary to win by default - a challenge is food for her and the party. It does, however, look quite grim for Sanders and a lot of us just want to understand the thinking behind his campaign at this point.

[TBF]

41. So he's obviously not winning - then why in the heck

do you care what he's thinking? Were you ever interested in what Lincoln Chaffee was thinking? Of course not. You are only interested in what Bernie is thinking because he is a threat to Madame President.

[CheshireDog]

61. Actually, I was interested

I very much wanted to know what chafee and webb and even o malley are thinking. I'm always curious to know why people who have no chance of winning actually run. So you're wrong - its nothing special about Bernie.

[TBF]

93. Uh huh. Well you are doing your thing

and that's fine.

Bernie's staffers are coming to Dallas/Houston next week to start organizing. Texas does not have their primary until Super Tuesday so it looks like he's planning on being in it until then.

Sorry.

[arcane1]

68. When Hillary was behind in the polls in 2007, did this standard apply to her as well?

She was in it well into 2008 despite being in 2nd place, wasn't she?

[brooklynite]

66. Or, talk about political stuff on a political blog.

Or should all posts discussing possible future outcomes be blocked?

[arcane1]

67. Please link to my post that says discussions should be blocked.

Post the link or stop making shit up about me. Put up or STFU.

Honesty is the best policy, right?

[brooklynite]

71. " When all else fails, try to depress turnout."

Apparently talking about future outcomes is an evil plot?

[arcane1]

73. Where did I mention anything about evil? Seriously, is making up shit the order of the day?

It was Clinton's own campaign who said that that poll with her 41% lead was bad for the campaign because it would reduce donations and turnout.

Was that an evil plot too?

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. Its darn near impossible for him to win at this point....

[Kalidurga]

62. Awesome then we will keep supporting Bernie since resistance is futile.

[VanillaRhapsody]

70. Be my guest...

after the primary though.....it won't be done here...but I don't think its going to go that far.

[arcane1]

72. Maybe he'll talk about how Kennedy was assassinated in June, so he should stay in.

Might as well steal a page from Hillary's book, since she's been stealing his

[frylock]

40. These posts are more for their benefit than they are for ours.

Sort of a mantra, if you will.

[aidbo]

21. If you like how much Bernie has pulled Hillary to the left..

..did you think she was too far to the right before he challenged her?

Unfortunately, I'm on my break at work so I won't be able to respond to any responses to me, but you might want to consider it.

[MineralMan]

28. Hillary Clinton is a mainstream Democrat.

Bernie's an Independent Democratic Socialist. Everyone in the GOP Clown Car is a conservative asshole. I want a Democratic President in 2017. My own personal philosophy is a misbegotten, forlorn belief that actual Socialism is the way to go, but I long since understood that this country will never have have that form of government.

So, since I prefer the Democratic option to the Republican, for obvious reasons, I work to elect Democrats to every office I can. It is my opinion, based on decades of following presidential elections, that Bernie Sanders cannot be elected in the United States to that office. That's my opinion. So, while I welcome Sanders' nudging of Hillary Clinton leftward, I am supporting Clinton for the nomination, because I believe she can win the office.

In this country, presidential elections are binary in nature. Either a Democrat or a Republican will become the President. And the farther left a Democratic candidate is, the less likely he or she will win. The whole nation votes on that office, state by state, and the electors from each state do the final vote.

Sanders could not possibly win the general election. The Republican candidate, I predict, will be Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. Both are more centrist than the rest of the clown car. On the Democratic side, the only current candidate in the primaries who can compete with either on a national, 50-state basis, is Hillary Clinton. It's that simple. It's that sad. It's that real.

I deal with reality. We will have one President for four years. I'd prefer a Democrat to be that President. That makes my decision a simple one. Your opinion might differ from mine.

[aidbo]

95. Thank you for the response.

But I have to point out - and I think you know this too - you did not answer my single question.

Do you feel that Hillary held positions too far to the right for your own taste before Bernie started to shift the conversation to the left?

From your OP:

...I think he is achieving his goals on a daily basis in this campaign by raising issues that help shift Hillary Clinton to the left.

... I hope he continues to exert pressure as long as possible.

I understand all those things that you said in your response; that you are most concerned about winning, that we have a de facto 2 party system, that people are scared of socialism, you deal in reality, etcetera. I do disagree with you about Bernie being electable.

You say that Hillary is a mainstream Democrat, and I agree with you. Mostly I agree because she is effectively the 2nd or 3rd most influential Democrat out there today. So she has a big hand in setting the Democratic positions/agenda. So a mainstream Democratic politician would look to the leadership of his/her party and emulate those positions.

I asked if you thought she was too far to the right for your liking before Bernie was running because I wanted to point out that many people like me feel that way too. I have watched the party move farther and farther right in an attempt to win over moderate/conservative voters. But the problem with trying to win those voters by being 'Republican-lite' (not an accusation, just a handy label) is that the conservative voter is just going to vote for the real Republican.

Meanwhile people like me and people further to the left of me just watch the Democrats try to win over the votes of conservative moderates or moderate conservatives. And we feel like 'what are we, chopped liver?'.

Since the election of President Obama, we've pulled back from that precipice and then some! There is still a lot of work to be done, of course. And many folks would feel that we've only slowed down the runaway-train-to-hell rather than put the brakes on.

Bernie is a chance for me and people like me to try to pull the party back to the left, back to the good ole Kickin'-Ass Democratic Party . We can vote for Bernie in the Primary to send a message to the PTB in our party. I guess we'll have to see if they hear us, or if they just pay us lip-service.

If Hillary wins the nom and the GE after Bernie having "help(ed) shift Hillary Clinton to the left." we will have in a sense 'put her on record'. And we will have to judge for ourselves whether she comes through for us.

My vote is the only influence I really have over my party. I'm going to use it.

(sorry for the long response

[riderinthestorm]

23. Yes nt

[Go Vols]

26. Yes

[frylock]

27. *yawn*

[font color="white"]Thanks for kicking my thread.[\font]

[restorefreedom]

29. he is running to win. nt

[MADem]

30. I've always regarded him as a stalking horse, but one never knows.

That's my personal opinion, too!

I think he might like a cabinet gig, like, say, labor. Excellent salary, huge perks, much less work overall, assuming he moves people around so he gets the staff he wants. And he can focus on one of his areas of interest. Also, he doesn't have to schmooze people, and that is not a strength with him.

[tularetom]

60. And exactly who did you think he was stalking for?

Clinton? If so, he's doing a piss poor job.

Elizabeth Warren? I don't think she could be bribed, cajoled or threatened to get into this election.

Biden? Don't make me laugh.

I don't believe the man wants a position in the cabinet of a president with whom he disagrees on so many basic issues. IMO he sincerely believes he has a message that will resonate with a majority of Americans. And I think he does, whether or not they can get past the media bullshit and fake labels and learn what he has to say.

He is definitely the underdog and a very long shot to gain the Democrat party nomination (he might have a better chance if it was the Democrat-ic party). But he has a better chance than Clinton of being elected president. You have no idea how many Americans despise this woman.

[MADem]

63. I'm not going to give you a lesson as to how that works.

It's quite obvious who he's stalking for, if he's doing that (and I think he is). Your confusion speaks volumes as to your knowledge.

Unlike the internet, it never serves a stalking horse to be "obvious" about what they are doing. It causes problems with the base when that happens.

Your assessments about Clinton are your own, but they aren't controlling. More to the point, I'm not about to take "popularity poll figures" from someone who doesn't even have the lay of the political landscape down.

[tularetom]

88. I love the smell of condescension in the morning

And I realize that to you I am merely part of the great unwashed with whom you are occasionally forced to share your superior political insights.

But I'm not a great subscriber to political conspiracy theories, hence the whole concept of stalking horses seems somewhat alien to me.

Anyway I'm certain that in the fullness of time the answer to the question of who Sanders is stalking for will be revealed. Until that time I'll be on pins and needles.

[1StrongBlackMan]

87. The Democratic Party. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

86. I would rather have Bernie in the Senate, than in a cabinet spot ...

that way he can focus on his areas of interest with the force of writing laws. Also, he doesn't have to schmooze people, and that is not a strength with him.

[TheBlackAdder]

32. If something happens to HRC before election day, then what are the Dem's options?

.


Like it or not, this is a required process to preserve a political party's options through election day.


What surprises me are the OPs that exude panic and divisiveness. Things that are not called for.

In all forms of a standard campaign, HRC will be the nominee, yet this fear is prevalent.


.

[MineralMan]

38. That's always a possibility, but the Democratic Convention

has means to deal with such an event, if it happens before the nomination. It's far from an ideal situation, but it seems unlikely to me that they would select a nominee in such a case who had not won a significant number of primaries. Elections are elections. Instead, they'd probably opt for a different nominee. Someone like Biden would probably be one of the possibilities they'd consider.

The thing is that the delegates will come to the convention pledged to vote for the candidate who did the best in the primary or caucuses. If, for some tragic reason, that candidate were not available, it is far more likely that they would nominate someone more aligned with the person they were pledged to than with someone who was a losing opponent.

Such situations are not common, really. Even less common is the loss of a nominee between the convention and election day. That really throws a monkey wrench into the works, and whoever replaced the selected nominee would probably lose to the other party.

1968 was a good example of what can happen. We did lose a very promising candidate. The result was a disastrous convention, a disastrous choice of a candidate and a win by the worst Republican President in my lifetime. Now, I assume that both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders have been seen by their physicians and have been told that they're OK to run, so it seems unlikely to me that either will be unable to run.

[TBF]

37. OK, then explain "his goals". Are you telling us right here that he is

a sell out and is running solely for the purpose of shepherding leftists towards Hillary?

Because we are really not that stupid and/or compliant. As you will find out.

[Cali_Democrat]

39. I agree, but then you gotta feel bad for some of his supporters

They're convinced he's gonna win. They're convinced all the polls are wrong. They were convinced he was going to wipe the floor with Hillary in the first debate. Not only did that not happen, but she expanded her lead.

I agree with you when you say Bernie doesn't actually expect to win the nomination.

[MineralMan]

45. It's my belief that his supporters will shift if he can't get the

nomination. Not all of them, certainly, but almost all of them. I'm not that concerned. The small group that will either not vote or vote for some almost anonymous third party candidate won't really have much of an impact in the general election. Frankly, based on the weak slate of candidates on the Republican side, I think this election is going to be a walk-off win for Democrats. It's Hillary's election and she'd have to work hard to lose.

Some of the millennials won't show up at the polls to vote for Hillary, but they often don't show up anyhow. I don't think that will change anything, and Hillary has very good support among millennials, anyhow, despite claims to the contrary.

Someone asked me what I though Bernie's goals are. I think they are what I said in my opening post - to shift the discussion to the left. I think he has succeeded in that. That's what I think his goal has been. He's not running to lose. He's running to get the conversation going in a better direction. It is going that way.

When I look at Bernie Sanders, I see a hard-nosed idealist who probably doesn't give a damn if he wins or not, as long as he gets to set the tone of the discussion. Irascible and blunt, he makes his points clear and forthright. That's an attractive trait, but not one that wins national elections. It can, however, shift the tone and topics of the campaign, and I think it has done that quite well. He's only a few years older than I am. I think he wants to speak his piece and make himself clear. He's an outlier and a nonconformist. He's a great, strong voice, and we're hearing him and listening. I can see the attraction of that, frankly.

So, no, I don't think he expects to win these primaries. I think he's doing exactly what he wants to do, and more power to him in doing it.

[brooklynite]

64. They seem to be relying on the "secret army" argument

Never mind there hasn't been any reported surge in voter registration (in fact, there have been complaints that DNC isn't doing registration at Sanders events). Millions of disaffected people (75 million is a number I've been pitched), will stay under the polling radar until Primary Day and then all show up en-masse.

[upaloopa]

44. If one wanted to win the Dem nomination that

person would not narrow their potential support as much as Sanders has done.
Dems and independents range from center right to far left. Sanders draws from the far left. He cannot presume to win the nomination with that strategy.
It is obvious that Bernie supporters do not want any support from anyone who is to the right of them so there is that.

[MineralMan]

47. I think he's done remarkably well to get the support of about 30%

of "Democratic" primary voters. That's what I predicted his peak would be, somewhere between 25-30%. I don't see any path to a better result, frankly, and it's for the reasons you mentioned. It's certainly sent a message, though. It's a message everyone can hear and see. He's being a force for change, and that's a good thing.

What will he do? Probably continue to serve in the Senate. His voice is heard there, and he's a genius at getting amendments added to bills that promote his positions. I don't see him wanting a cabinet position. He's got a great platform already. That's what I think.

[upaloopa]

54. His supporters are going to turn on him at some point.

It is obvious that he can't deliver on his platform. My guess is he will resign or retire his Senate seat in the not too distant future and operate outside the system.

[MineralMan]

56. That point will be the day he endorses Hillary Clinton for President.

I guarantee it. And he will. He knows that the Republicans cannot be allowed to control all three branches of government.

His endorsement will be followed with an angry outcry against him. However, he'll still be able to win his Senate seat in Vermont. No problem.

[1StrongBlackMan]

89. Yep ... That is my thought.

[LexVegas]

49. If he does he's delusional. nt

[MineralMan]

51. That's not a word I'd ever use with regard to

Bernie Sanders. He's about as far from delusional as a person can get. He's about as much of a realist as anyone can be. That's why I wrote this thread opener. Like my father, he doesn't pull any punches when he believes something. He puts it out there and the devil take it if they don't like it.

I admire that in him, just as I do in my father, who is now 91 years old and just as straightforward. Still, it's not a great attribute for a politician, overall.

[Major Hogwash]

50. Yes.

President Obama is going to ensure that Bernie becomes the next President.

[MineralMan]

52. I see...

Whatever you say.

[Politicalboi]

57. Hillary lead Obama on this day in 2007 by 20 points

How did that end in 2008?

I hope Bernie expects to be the nominee. He should be the nominee. He WILL be the nominee.

[MineralMan]

58. As has been pointed out, this is not 2008, and

Sanders is not Obama.

[Gothmog]

65. Sanders' campaign manager does not expect Sanders to be the nominee

Sanders is running to push his issues. Even Sanders campaign manager admitted that Sanders' main goal is to be considered to be a "serious" candidate. I keep reading articles hoping to see some signs of viability for the Sanders campaign in the general election. Here is a thread that is a good example. See http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251667157 if you read the last three paragraphs of the article cited in that thread, Sanders campaign manager does not outline a path to the nomination but a path to be a "serious" candidate.

If all goes according to plan, Sanders will have won enough delegates by mid-March to be a serious contender for the nomination. That would signal a shift for Sanders; it would be time to court the establishment. “Then we have to offer fundamental assurances to party leaders who say he’s a socialist. He’s been in the Congress 25 years and his program is not to replace the current system with socialism, it’s to revive the middle class.”

Sanders’s outsider campaign has been likened to Jesse Jackson’s insurgent campaign in 1988—it wasn’t until the Wisconsin primary in April that Michael Dukakis defeated Jackson. But Devine thinks the more apt analogy to today’s politics is 1984 when the combination of Gary Hart’s insurgency and Jackson’s coalition of minority voters together almost beat Walter Mondale. “Jackson never received support from the institutional party, but he demanded respect. If we register, as Jesse Jackson did, millions of people, that would be a huge lift for the party in Senate races.” And for whichever Democrat reaches the magic number of delegates next year to secure the nomination.

The idea that Sanders is good for the Democratic Party is a hard lesson for Clinton to appreciate in the heat of battle. But he’s got voters fired up and ready to go, and Democrats need that energy.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/12/bernie-sanders-s-strategist-this-is-how-we-win.html
The apparent goal of this campaign is not for Sanders to be the nominee but to be considered a serious candidate who might almost beat Hillary Clinton.

This article is silent on what Sanders intend to do in a general election contest in that it appears that Sanders campaign manager does not expect that Sanders will be the nominee.

Again, Sanders needs to come up with a good explanation as to how he is viable in a general election if he wants to expand the base. I keep looking for a good explanation and I have yet to see anything close.

[MineralMan]

69. That's not going to be a popular reply to this thread, I predict.

No middle game appears to be planned. No end game is even being considered. It's all about maybe getting some delegates so they can work the convention to some end. Nothing about actually getting the nomination.

Thanks for the info!

[Gothmog]

91. I have repeatedly asked for an explanation as to how Sanders is viable

If there was a good explanation as to how Sanders could compete in the general eleciton contest, the campaign would be pushing it. It is clear to me that the only goal of the Sanders campaign is to be considred to be a serious candidate and that no one in the campaign really expects to be the nominee

[Autumn]

74. Why do you care? He's plenty smart enough to be President and won't have to wait 8 years either.

My opinion is that it really bothers you that he is running, you sure do spend a lot of time harping about him. Got anything nice to say here or elsewhere about the candidate you support?

[MineralMan]

77. Doesn't bother me at all. There needs to be a strongish

candidate in the primary, competing with Clinton. And there's Bernie Sanders. What should I say about Hillary Clinton? She can win against any of the Republicans. She's a Democrat. She has the ability to lead. She has excellent international experience. She has a 2:1 lead in national polls

I want a Democrat to win next November. She can do it. That's why I'm supporting her.

As for my posts here, this is not a friendly environment for Clinton supporters. It doesn't bother me, so I post about the campaign and the election. I don't get many recs for my posts, but that's not why I post. My posts show up in Google searches. People read them. I get far more readers here than I would on some blog I started.

That's why I post here. Google likes DU.

go Google this (no quotes required): Does Bernie Sanders expect nomination

I like Hillary Clinton because she can win. Now, all we need to do is give her a Congress that will send her good bills. We can start with the Senate this year and pick up the House two years from now. That's why. We won't have all three branches of government in Republican hands. That's why.

I'll continue to post here. I promise.

[Autumn]

80. Someone ought to write nice stuff about Hillary. If you can brush off the posts pointing out the

crap you have said about Hillary and Obama at the conservative sites surely a few negative comments about Hillary's stand on the issues here is not big deal.

[MineralMan]

84. I don't brush those posts off.

That was years ago. This is 2015. I don't deal with out of context quotes from that long ago. Sorry. That's a waste of everyone's time. So, I just ignore that stuff. I'm responding to you out of respect for your postings here.

I won't respond to any other posts about old writings that are completely out of context. Sorry.

I'm writing about the Democratic primary campaigns right now, because they're happening right now. I don't respond to thread hijacking attempts.

You asked for positive things about Hillary. I gave you some of the ones I'm considering. I'll be happy to answer any such questions, but not questions about old out of context quotes from other places and old times. That's simply not worth my time.

[randys1]

78. He is a man on a mission, from GOD. No, not really, we were talking about movies

earlier, Blues Brothers

In spite of the vicious, non stop HIllary hate on DU and elsewhere, Bernie knows what his job is, and if he is allowed to do that job as Prez, fine, if not, fine.

He is going to accomplish much either way.

Many of the VICIOUS Hillary HATERS on DU and elsewhere have a job to do, as well.

[Agnosticsherbet]

81. I think he expected it to be a longshot, but he will take this all the way to the Convention.

He has plenty of cash, and as the only alternative he can get loads of free publicity because the news media will continue to give him airtime so that they can make it appear like a horse race.

They do have all the Drama on the Republican side, but the media thrives on Drama and so they want it on the left.

[pinebox]

82. Of course he does

When Bernie started out, he was polling at 2%. Remember that.
Does this ring any bells? See October.
Why what do you know? Those numbers are basically identical!

[Cosmic Kitten]

85. Ohs noes, it rained on our parade -->sadz

[DianeK]

98. my opinion on this matter

differs from yours