Ramping up Attacks on Clinton Will Not Change

[MineralMan]

the results. At this point, people voting in polls pretty much have their minds made up. Since current polling shows a 2:1 margin for Clinton, increasing attacks on her are more likely to increase her lead than the opposite.

Nevertheless, I expect to see attacks getting sharper and more personal in the coming weeks. That trick will not alter the outcome, though. Not at this point.

2:1. That is an almost insurmountable polling margin. It will feed on itself and grow further, I predict.

Finally, watch for new numbers in New Hampshire. There has been no polling since the Benghazi hearing and Biden's announcement. There will be, though, this week.

[Cosmic Kitten]

1. Stop SHOUTING at us!!!!

[MineralMan]

2. Shouting? Really?

I posted my analysis of the situation. How is that shouting? I'm confused.

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. No you're not (confused). Or, at least you shouldn't be. n/t

[Cosmic Kitten]

10. Don't play coy, you are SHOUTING at us, stop it

[MineralMan]

14. I'm sorry, but your post is the one with All Caps in the

title. I'm not shouting at all.

[riversedge]

28. Best comback yet.

Hope folks are getting out to vote in Mpls today

[MineralMan]

33. My wife and I are about to head out to the polling place.

She's having a cuppa, and then we'll drive down to vote for our city council member and the DFL-endorsed school board candidates. I expect a pretty empty polling place, though, here in St. Paul. I don't think Hennepin County or Minneapolis have a ballot for today, though. I could be mistaken, but I haven't seen anything about races there.

[riversedge]

44. oh, sorry, I thought you

were Mpls (my alma mater is U of Mpls--and lived on Fremont Ave several years. Loved the area--and the city). Now spend lots of time in Inver grove heights-family there. Love that area also. Went for house boat right up Miss. River to Mpls 2 weeks ago. Lovely time..

Gotta go myself. work is calling. Later.

[MineralMan]

55. Back from the polls. We're using ranked-choice voting

now, to prevent runoffs. However, in the city council election, I only voted in the first choice column. Dan Bostrom, our progressive ward councilman will win handily as the incumbent and is doing a great job.

The school board, though is interesting. The DFL Party endorsed a slate of four brand new candidates instead of any of the incumbents. There are going to be some changes in the makeup of the board after this election.

[msrizzo]

51. New definition of shouting.....

Shouting: anything that anyone says that you don't want to hear!

[NCTraveler]

4. I was personally told this op was typed in a mild whisper. nt.

[Agschmid]

5. On a tear lately...

[JaneyVee]

20. Us who?

[rbrnmw]

21. That's rich coming from you

Who insulted AfAm's with your Ben Carson will beat Hillary threads.

[sufrommich]

3. I agree. nt

[Agschmid]

6. While I don't consider this over by any means...

I think her chances are improving quite a bit lately.

[MineralMan]

8. The trends seem to point in that direction, I think.

[Agschmid]

9. Absolutely.

[think]

11. Hillary's entanglement with multinationals & Wall Street banks is disgusting but perfectly legal

[MineralMan]

17. She is quite a successful public speaker.

I'm lucky if I can get $1000 for addressing a group, and I haven't been doing that lately, anyhow.

I wonder where all of those fees went. Some, I'm sure, went to the Clinton Foundation. I also notice that a number of those speeches were to women's organizations, healthcare research groups, and other non-profits.

I'm not sure how relevant these speaking fees are to polling or the primary elections, though.

[whatchamacallit]

25. I'll pay you not to speak n/t

[MineralMan]

46. No, thanks. I have a job, so I'm not

desperate for money. If you'd like to submit a bid, though, have at it.

[Renew Deal]

59. How much are you paying?

[MineralMan]

61. I haven't received a bid yet from that poster.

Now that I think about it though, I'd probably stop posting if offered a fee equal to the lowest amount Hillary has been paid for speaking on the list upthread. I'm still waiting for a bid, which I'd have to confirm with regard to ability to pay before making a decision.

[think]

31. It's the company you keep. Senator Carl Levin called out Goldman Sachs for screwing it's clients

and lying to congress. Levin said the DOJ was either inept or that laws weren't adequate and was surprised that no one at GS was prosecuted.

Hillary on the other hand has the GS CEO campaign for her in 2008 and gives multiple speeches to the bank for huge amounts of cash.

The list has plenty of questionably ethical companies on it. None of the speeches which will ever be made public.

Bernie would never pull this shit. Hillary knows the law well and operates within it''s boundaries to take advantage of any opportunity no matter how unscrupulous it may be or appears to be.

But hey. She's a winner so we overlook the blatantly obvious....

Winning!

[VanillaRhapsody]

43. they went to charity....

[MineralMan]

63. Thanks. That's what I thought, but

I wasn't quite sure.

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. You know she gives her speaking fees to charity right?

think indeed...

[JonLeibowitz]

64. If that is indeed the case why doesn't GS negotiate a contract so that they donate to charity?

At least then they could use it as a tax writeoff.

I highly doubt she donates it all to charity, but I am happy to be proved wrong, with facts.

[GeorgeGist]

89. You mean the charity that pays her family's salaries?

[VanillaRhapsody]

90. Non Profit....and most transparent....

Do you even know what they do?

Considering all of the organizations affiliated with the Clinton Foundation, he said, CharityWatch concluded about 89 percent of its budget is spent on programs. That’s the amount it spent on charity in 2013, he said.
We looked at the consolidated financial statements (see page 4) and calculated that in 2013, 88.3 percent of spending was designated as going toward program services — $196.6 million out of $222.6 million in reported expenses.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Mineral Man's unvarnished analysis makes many of us come to this site

EOM

[workinclasszero]

68. You, Mineral Man and JaneyVee

are my favorite posters.

[whatchamacallit]

79. ...

[MineralMan]

85. Everybody Limbo! How Low Can You Go?

I don't think I could get under that limbo bar at my age. I'd lose that game.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Has she apologized for her DOMA revisoinism?

Until that happens she's a no go for me. Of course most of her supporters here come form the less than equality friendly camp anyway.

[MineralMan]

18. No, I don't believe she has.

It doesn't seem to be affecting her polling, though. That's what this post is about.

[treestar]

73. One doesn't have to agree with someone entirely

to support them. You may agree on economic or other issues. Though we don't know, as you only have one issue.

[pa28]

15. Hillary is inevitable again.

That' nice to hear.

[MineralMan]

22. No, not really. But, it appears that she's gathering strength

Last edited Tue Nov 3, 2015, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)

in the primary campaign. Nothing is inevitable, but watching trends is interesting if you are an observer of politics. Personally, I'm a Clinton supporter, although I think Bernie Sanders would do a fine job as President, too. It's beginning to look like a solid win for Hillary, though.

All roads lead to next year's convention.

[VanillaRhapsody]

42. Yes if by overwhelmingly supported by her party means inevitable...

then I guess so...

[willvotesdem]

81. Think about your post and focus on AGAIN how did that work out the last time?

Or were you being sarcastic?
Tough to tell these days.

[pa28]

83. "Again" was the operative word.

[JaneyVee]

16. Well, they seem to be working...

In her favor.

[berni_mccoy]

19. Im ok with Clinton camp thinking they have it in the bag. Really. Please proceed.

[MineralMan]

24. OK. I think the numbers tell a pretty clear story.

If it were the reverse, I'd still be commenting on the polling. The primary outcome won't change my vote, which will go to the Democratic nominee. I'm just observing how things are going.

[berni_mccoy]

26. They were pretty much the same in 2008 too...

[MineralMan]

30. If you say so.

This is not 2008, though. The political landscape has changed a good deal since then.

[berni_mccoy]

34. And Clinton is up to her usual predictable flip-flopping and pandering

People will see through this later in the season. Time will tell.

[MineralMan]

35. We will see, of course.

We will all see. That's why analyzing things is so interesting. Sometimes, you get it right, and sometimes not.

I'm feeling pretty confident in my predictions these days. But, I could be wrong, of course. Time will tell, as you say.

[frylock]

67. In which way has the political landscape changed from 2008 that would favor Hillary?

[MineralMan]

69. Obama. That way.

His endorsement of Hillary, following the nomination, along with his active campaign support, will favor Clinton's election strongly.

Now, that's just what I predict will happen, of course. But, then, I also predict that Bernie Sanders, too, will endorse her in the GE campaign. That will help as well.

My opinion. Yours might differ.

[Kentonio]

87. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

People are talking about the nomination process, not the general. Obama isn't going to endorse anyone before the nomination.

[MineralMan]

88. You might remember that Obama ran against Hillary Clinton

in 2008. Look at the two candidates then, and look at the two leading candidates now. Obama was the better candidate and won. This time, the better candidate will win, as well.

You're right, though. President Obama will probably not endorse a candidate until after the Democratic National Convention. But that's not the only way he influences these primaries. Just by being President, his record influences the primaries.

You may remember that Bernie Sanders called for a primary candidate to oppose President Obama in 2012. That didn't work out. Obama had such strong support that nobody showed up. He still has strong support and that strongly affects the current primary race. Hillary Clinton benefits largely from that.

In fact, that will become more evident as primary season goes forward, I believe.

It's a little complicated, but also pretty simple at the same time. People like Obama. They want to continue things along similar lines. Such people will be voting for Hillary Clinton in the primaries. Watch the polls.

Some people dislike President Obama. Those people are not likely to support Hillary Clinton, either. There are fewer of those than people who do like President Obama. National polling reflects that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Still in the Denial Stage...

Still in the Denial Stage. According to Elisabeth Kubler Ross' Five Stages of Grief you have five Stages to go. I am striving to be more empathetic so I will be here for you every step of the way, all the way to the Final Stage which is Acceptance.

Let me display my empathy by extending to you a mountain sized .

[workinclasszero]

48. Oh we will

Past Super Tuesday too, which is more than you can say for Bernie.

[99Forever]

23. I'm not getting off your lawn.

Polls are for suckers

[MineralMan]

27. Nobody's asking you to. If you're thirsty, though,

I'll get you a lemonade. Help yourself to a lawn chair and I'll be right back.

[Kalidurga]

32. Claiming attacks will be ramped up will not make it so either.

I keep hearing of these attacks and on a board where there are 90% who are in favor of Bernie you could expect every single post to be anti-Hillary. This is far from the case. In the latest threads there might be one or two anti-Hillary threads. I don't expect that number to go up.

[MineralMan]

38. I'm not just talking about DU, you know.

Although this is the only forum where I'm active, I watch politics from a number of perspectives. I just choose DU as the place to discuss politics with others.

There seem to be many posts here that oppose Hillary Clinton, from what I have observed. I haven't seen their numbers decreasing at all. You might have another opinion that differs from mine, though.

[Kalidurga]

47. So you are admonishing people on DU for stuff that doesn't happen on DU

nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MineralMan]

56. I didn't admonish anyone. I commented on the futility

of attack-based campaigning. You're apparently reading something into my words that I did not say. Try re-reading the original post.

[Kalidurga]

66. Of course it is futile

Just the same I will continue to back fighting for a more equal society.

[Armstead]

36. It's totally legitimate to vent on a discussion board

People vented against GWB back in the day, continue to vent against the GOP, and vent about their frustrations with Democratic politicians and the party, and all sort of other things on DU.

[MineralMan]

41. I'm not telling anyone what to do or not to do.

I'm stating the opinion that attacks aren't going to change the outcome. That's all I'm saying. I'll be voting for the nominee. Any of the three will be OK with me.

[Cha]

37. Ramping up attacks? You mean like comparing her to linda blair? says everything about them and

absolutely nothing about Hillary.

I use to think Bernie was okay.. but I can't stand him now.

[MineralMan]

39. I'd happily vote for any of the Democratic candidates

next November, frankly. Politics interests me, but presidential elections are the least interesting of all. Here, they're the only topic, really, so that's what I discuss here. My focus is on state and federal legislative offices and local elections. There's not a lot of interest here in those, though, so I discuss the topics that are of interest.

[Rose Siding]

50. I saw that.

Extra ugly, that.

[Cha]

52. Yeah, right before I trashed it.

[BlueMTexpat]

54. I like Bernie.

Those who would use such language in a Democratic forum, not so much.

[m-lekktor]

71. OFFS, Nobody compared Hillary to Linda Blair! That OP was pointing out that Hillary

claiming one minute to be a liberal and another to being a moderate (as shown in the videos provided) will "have your head spinning like Linda Blair." Your reading comprehension is lacking!

[Cha]

72. OFFS get over yourself.

[HomerRamone]

45. Not one vote has been cast yet

but you all want every vote cast to be as meaningless as those in dictatorships. DWS, the media and TPTB have picked your person and that's just fine with you. Ain't "democracy" (and "Democrats&quot grand?

[MineralMan]

57. A good observation, and correct, too.

However, polls measure people's intentions. It's always interesting to see what people's intentions are in upcoming elections. Apparently, it's interesting enough that an industry has grown up around polling people.

I think you, and everyone else, should vote for the candidate you or they prefer. There are three Democrats running. On your state's primary election day or caucus date, I hope you'll cast your vote for your preferred candidate. We'll learn the results later of how you and your fellow voters decided.

It's still interesting to follow polls prior to elections, I think.

[Vattel]

49. I will continue to try to inform democratic voters of stuff like this:

Sanders wants to remove marijuana from the federal scheduling system altogether. Clinton has not even said that she wants it taken off the Schedule I list. She wants more research.
Clinton voted to authorize Bush to wage war in Iraq should he judge that the “threat” posed by Iraq warranted it. Sanders voted no on the Iraq War Resolution.
Clinton wanted an even bigger surge in Afghanistan.
Clinton supported regime change in Libya, with disastrous results. Sanders opposed going to war in Libya.
Sanders has a history of being honest, Clinton has been caught being dishonest on many occasions.
Sanders is opposed to all capital punishment, Clinton is not.
Clinton worked behind the scenes to help consolidate the coup in Honduras.
Clinton said that refugee minors who fled violence in Honduras and other parts of Central America should be sent back as soon as their parents are found. She said this even though a large percentage of those refugees had a right to seek asylum, and that process requires staying in the United States for months or even years.
Clinton voted to build a wall along the US-Mexican border, and once said that she is “against illegal immigrants.”
Clinton supports raising the cap for the H1B visa program for tech workers which would further undermine tech wages in the USA and cause unemployment among American tech workers.
Clinton said that TPP “sets the gold standard” for trade agreements.
Clinton supported DOMA and has recently received the honor of four pinocchios from the Washington Post for her distortions in trying to make excuses her vote.
Clinton opposed marriage equality until 2013.

[MineralMan]

58. That's fine. I think you should continue to do that.

Those are not attacks. They are information. I do suggest that you separate your pairs of comparisons with a blank line, though. It would help people read them.

[Vattel]

62. Thanks for the suggestion.

[bowens43]

53. she we probably get the nomination but she will never get the presidency.

[MineralMan]

60. I predict that she will win the general election.

I'm sticking by my prediction that she will get at least 300 Electoral votes for the win. She may well get more than that. Only 270 votes are needed to win the election.

Next year, I'll get more specific about a prediction of Electoral votes.

My predictions are based on past elections and current polling.

[frylock]

65. Well, Hillary has those land line polls all wrapped up..

Let me know when those ultimately determine the election.

[MineralMan]

70. I won't need to let you know.

I assume you'll be following election results just like I will. We can talk after they're all in, OK?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

74. The landline argument is so 2004...

No credible pollster excludes cell phone users!

[MineralMan]

75. Well, I basically ignore all posts that say polling

is of no importance, for whatever reason. They don't determine election results. They merely measure current voter sentiment. For anyone interested in political campaigns, including the candidates themselves, polling is enormously important.

For political observers, they give us a look into how things are proceeding during a campaign. I look at them that way. I look at them in aggregate, not individually. I look at them to learn what the trends are, since trends seem to be a better way of predicting outcomes than anything else.

People who dismiss polls simply are passing through and not really paying attention. They'll get the results after election day.

[lunamagica]

84. The lanline argument it's so Ronmey...

They kept dismissing the polls until the very end...leading to the shocked look on the Romneys' faces that night when they realized that...horrors of horrors....the polls were right, after all!

[frylock]

82. You'd better believe I'll be talking!

Looking forward to those discussions.

[MineralMan]

86. I'll count on that.

[108vcd]

76. yay, another corporatists president

who will be much worse than the previous

can't wait

[MineralMan]

78. Uh...OK, then...

Thanks for your reply.

[willvotesdem]

77. This is good news won't have to go to the polls now it's all over.

Guess we can all stay home in Nov 2016 too as the election has already been decided.

[MineralMan]

80. I haven't missed any election since my first in 1966.

In fact, I got back from voting today about an hour ago. It's election day where I live. Polls don't determine results. They only indicate the current opinions of voters. They're very interesting. Voting is essential.

People who answer poll questions but don't vote are rare. So, I'll be voting in every election, as I have always done.