Quick Question: When has a non-Democrat ever won the Democratic nomination?

[bravenak]

I just don't see how a non Democrat can beat a popular Democrat for the Democratic Party Nomination for President. Has this ever happened before?
And before anyone says 'Republicans will vote for so and so!', please, just stop. Republican are not going to reregister as Democrats just to help ANYONE establish MORE SOCIALISM in America. Please. It makes me laugh too hard to contemplate. I literally cry laughing and almost pee pee myself.

I simply do not think it is realistic to keep saying that Democrats will not have party loyalty towards a Democratic candidate over an independent or a socialist. Just the fact that Democrats help other Democrats in downticket races should be enough for most Democrats to think twice about voting in a non Dem as the leader of the party

[cherokeeprogressive]

1. Quick yawn.

[bravenak]

8. I use this:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I believe it would be fair to say it would be unprecedented.

eom

[bravenak]

3. I thought so.

It sounded fantastical to me anyway.

[Recursion]

4. Was Bryan a Democrat in 1896? (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Ike was barely a Republican in 1952.

He was recruited by both parties.

[Recursion]

7. Good point.

That was back when many military officers didn't register to vote, too (it was considered improper).

But, I just looked it up: Bryan was at least nominally a Democrat when he went to the House in 1890.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. If he would have run as D that would have been twenty eight straight years of Democratic presidents.

He did preserve the New Deal, sent troops to integrate Little Rock High School, and built the interstate highway system.

He couldn't get the nomination in today's Republican party.

[Rod Beauvex]

44. I doubt he'd get the nomination in today's Democratic party.

[WI_DEM]

172. Yes, but he said he had always been a life long Republican

[bravenak]

6. I don't know. How many times did he run? Twice or just the once?

[Recursion]

9. 1896, 1900, 1908

I thought I remember he started 1896 as part of an Agrarian party, but I must be thinking of somebody else. 1900 and 1908 he was definitely an established Democrat.

[bravenak]

10. I think I need to crack open my ol history ebook again!

[jkbRN]

11. aw, i really feel bad for you.

it'll happen when the low hanging fruit stop falling for the lies and corruption that the 2 party system perpetuates.

[bravenak]

15. Okay so in 500 years.

[jkbRN]

18. well, don't forget to vote in such a way that will undo corruption that you just acknowledged.

[bravenak]

19. All politics are corrupt. Your utopia is my dystopia.

[jkbRN]

21. i'm sorry you feel so powerless and that's what you base your vote on--

maybe one day you can be part of the change, until then, because of people who share your perspective, it won't change. blame yourself.

[bravenak]

22. I blame idiots.

[Hortensis]

79. For sure!

[procon]

13. I am beginning to suspect that getting nominated was never Sanders intention.

He's never courted any super delegates and his number count is damning. That makes him just as noncompetitive as being a non-Democrat does.

[bravenak]

14. Finally. I really don't think he thought he'd get this far and never made any plans.

[Hortensis]

92. I'm sure you're right. No one anticipated Bernie's success.

When he and his people arrived at his first large rally they didn't understand where all the cars came from. Bernie himself wondered if an accident had caused the traffic jam.

That said, I actually think it's pretty clear that we WOULD elect a "non-Democrat" like Bernie. One who ran a winning campaign, of course. For instance, by working long and hard to make friends and line up supporters in Congress before most people had even heard of him.

As it is, Bernie is making history by accelerating and elevating our aspirations. I hope.

[bravenak]

99. I think he is doing great.

But most of us Democrats are not going to let an Indy lead our party. Not one who seems to say negative things about the party. With people like me in the fight, winning this thing for Hillary is a piece of cake. I want omalley too though. So I have to remember to bring up the excellent Democrat more often and give him the praise he is due as well.

[Hortensis]

111. Yes, badmouthing us is not a winning strategy, much as it

might please the right and other anti-Democrats. But he wouldn't do that in a WINNING campaign.

Speaking of bringing up Democrats, I feel bad that Lawrence Lessig was not given more attention here. His issue -- campaign finance reform -- is enormously important, but he ran and has now dropped out with virtually no attention from DU.

[bravenak]

113. True. Winners need not badmouth. We can appreciate the positives of all candidates.

Poor Lessig. It just was not his year. I kept forgetting about him, sadly.

[Kentonio]

189. A piece of cake is it? Oh I do hope you come to regret those words..

As for what 'most of us Democrats' will or will not do, we'll have to wait and see. I'm damn sure you don't speak for the party though.

[LuvLoogie]

109. I think this really illustrates Bernie's insular nature.

Had he actually started networking as a Democrat with other Dems, he might have had a Single-Payer Bill ready to score by 2010.

He ultimately retreated from Brooklyn to his cloister in Vermont, deigning to use the Dem Party's apparatus to win a subsequently declined nomination in order to get elected as an "Independent." His lone wolf tendencies leave him wondering how to pay the printer--still.

The elephant in the room is that Bernie has short-changed his "ideals." He sought to use the Democratic cooperative, rather than contribute beyond his vote.

[Hortensis]

132. Interesting, LuvLoogie.

I'd just assumed Bernie's relative rigidity and intolerance of people who don't hold his ideals meant he's a high achiever just as he is. You know. We all have our limitations.

It sounds, though, like you think Bernie really had it in him to be the politician he needed to be to achieve his ideals. If so, maybe he's just realizing it himself kinda late?

[LuvLoogie]

171. He needed to come out of his shell a long time ago.

Politics is a kind of Socratic method, not a lecture hall. Ted Kennedy regretted taking up Nixon on his Healthcare proposal. We'd have had Obamacare forty years sooner. And perhaps Single-Payer by now.

[Hortensis]

174. Depressing to remember.

[jkbRN]

20. you just outlined the WHOLE problem with your

outlook when you stated "courting super delegates" and not voters, that is the antithesis of what the democratic party is supposed to stand for--at least it was up until the 1980's when they introduced the idea of super delegates. ugh.

[procon]

24. You must know the nominee must have enough superdelegates to win, yeah?

Its a lovely fantasy you have, but this is the Democratic National Convention and it is ALL about Democratic Party, and how the old guard wields power to control the outcome in their favor. Sanders would need to secure a majority of the
747 superdelegates, but Bloomberg estimates Clinton already has secured well over 500 commitments. Sanders has just 2 (two). The math is not in his favor, and he's doing nothing to change that fact, is he?

[LiberalArkie]

31. Super delegates are a real new idea that really kicked in Bill Clintons term.

In 1984 only state party chairs and vice chairs were guaranteed superdelegate status. The remaining spots were divided two ways. The Democrats in Congress were allowed to select up to 60% of their members to fill some of these spots. The remaining positions were left to the state parties to fill with priority given to governors and big-city mayors. In 1988, this process was simplified. Democrats in Congress were now allowed to select up to 80% of their members. All Democratic National Committee members and all Democratic governors were given superdelegate status. This year also saw the addition of the distinguished party leader category (although former DNC chairs were not added to this category until 1996, and former House and Senate minority leaders were not added until 2000). In 1992 was the addition of a category of unpledged "add-ons", a fixed number of spots allocated to the states, intended for other party leaders and elected officials not already covered by the previous categories. Finally, beginning in 1996, all Democratic members of Congress were given superdelegate status.

[murielm99]

55. The super delegates are people who have

worked hard for the Democratic Party. They have held party offices and elected positions. They have earned their status.

Other delegates are chosen in various ways. They are elected in primaries, or appointed in some states. They are elected in my state.

I have no problem with giving these jobs to loyal Democrats who have worked hard.

The real fight will not be in our party. The Republican ptb are not going to be very happy if Trump or Carson come out on top. They will not allow the tea baggers to control the nomination, either. They will have a brokered convention. It could get very interesting.

[TheKentuckian]

147. No they haven't not in my book, I don't believe that such status should be available much less

deserved by anyone as it is anti democratic concept cynically designed to protect power from the will of the people and that each person should have one vote and that each vote should count equally.

There is no such thing as earned usurping of self determination.

I'm not even much on regular delegates and essentially believe they are an unnecessary relic rather than something to be super sized. Count the votes and call it a day.

[Hortensis]

173. That sounds very high-minded -- but very unworkable. Our nation

would have been taken over by evil beings long ago if it were made so easy. And if not before, certainly now when mass persuasion techniques have become so sophisticated.

BTW, my support for the inclusion of experienced party operatives in the conventions is strictly for stabilization of the process. No matter how much they have given, I agree that they wouldn't "deserve" to have the power to subvert the will of the rest of the voters. That's way too much "thanks for your service!"

[murielm99]

180. I think you are very naive.

You need to work for a few campaigns and learn more about how politics work. I think you will find that the system is very transparent and workable, if you get out and learn something.

Many Sanders supporters are babes in the woods.

[Kentonio]

190. If you have to work for a campaign to find the system 'very transparent and workable'

Then it isn't 'very transparent and workable'.

Elections are supposed to be about the voters, not about dedicated party members working for campaigns.

[murielm99]

192. It is made transparent and workable for the voters.

I was talking about your lack of knowledge and experience.

You can find out a lot by doing the actual work. You can find out a lot by visiting your county clerk and asking questions, too. In most places, they are very forthcoming, even if they are republicans.

[Kentonio]

193. My lack of knowledge and experience?

Well aren't you just the precious one. Care to share any more insights about a person you know absolutely nothing about?

[murielm99]

194. Your posts illuminate who you are. n/t

[Kentonio]

195. As do yours.

[DianeK]

200. my my

aren't we the condescending one...wow!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. I'm thinking college and book tour.

eom

[procon]

25. A lucrative speaking tour? nt

[Starry Messenger]

128. Same here.

Retirement plan!

[AgingAmerican]

16. The Democratic party establishment has evolved into Republican lite

Now outside intervention is necessary to steer the party back to serving the 99%. Right wingism has infected the Democratic party and it has begun metastasizing. Quick someone call an ambulance!!!

[bravenak]

17. We will not let outsiders run our party.

Apparently I can handle about a thousand at once so, it will be easy to shoo those outsiders back outside if they cannot learn how to behave. We are not going to be tea partied. Not happnin. Besides, they have not the chops to take our party from us. Just impotent outrage.

[AgingAmerican]

53. The 'outsider' is more of a democrat than the Democrats

It's time to throw out the Democratic party establishment. It suffers from a cancer that needs to be extinguished. Right wingism.

[bravenak]

56. He is no Democrat.

[AgingAmerican]

59. His beliefs are traditional Democratic

As in small d

He is the future of the Democratic party.

[bravenak]

68. I am the Future of the Democratic party. Not him. He is no Democrat.

[AgingAmerican]

70. Bernie is a small 'd' Democrat

The Democratic party establishment are not small 'd' Democrats. Sanders is far more of a small 'd' Democrat than they are. Hands down.

small-d democrat ? plural small-d democrats)
A democrat, that is, a person who holds democratic views; not necessarily someone who is a member of a country's "Democratic Party".
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/small-d_democrat

So yes! Bernie Sanders is a small 'd' Democrat running for the Democratic nomination!! Isn't it wonderful?!

[bravenak]

76. I am sorry for your loss.

[AgingAmerican]

117. I think the party has lost it's marbles

The Democratic establishment have become McDemocrats.

[bravenak]

118. And the far left have become well, not my cup of coffee.

I have seen too much from them to trust them in power.

[AgingAmerican]

120. There is no far left in American politics

[bravenak]

121. Then the 'revolution'.

I hated what I saw. I still do. I do not just sit down and deal. I get loud. If people hate it so they can offer me a truce.

[AgingAmerican]

124. I am talking about our Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders

(d) Vermont

[bravenak]

125. He is no Democrat

[AgingAmerican]

134. (d) Vermont

[bravenak]

137. No

[eridani]

184. The far lefties are horrible people who think that the New Deal waas a good idea

Wish more modern pols with the D label felt that way.

[bravenak]

205. The New Deal left my grandmother out. She was a domestic worker.

[eridani]

212. But it formed the basis for later including domestic workers.

That is, a well-functioning program is the only kind that could have been so expanded. It underpinned the big economic expansion in the 50s, which was an essential precondition for the various mass movements of the 60s.

I guess you'd like to just roll it all back--privatize Social Security and Medicare, more restrictions on unemployment insurance, let the banksters remain free of the controls imposed on them back then. PoC would really benefit from eliminating the minimum wage as well.

[Go Vols]

178. +1

[Cha]

26. HAHA.. you're making them crazy A-gain! They're acting like President Obama isn't a "Dem"..

see what we're dealing with here?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251758822

[bravenak]

27. They are so funny.

[Cha]

38. Funny Strawpeople.

[bravenak]

40. Unicorn wranglers.

[Cha]

47. Yeah, who would want to "attack" a unicorn?

[cantbeserious]

28. Quick Answer - What Difference Would It Make If Such An Event Came To Pass

eom

[bravenak]

29. Won't happen.

Outsiders to the Democratic party WILL NOT be taking over, thank you.

[cantbeserious]

35. So Say You - Others See The World Much Differently

eom

[bravenak]

37. Others in bubbles.

[cantbeserious]

43. The Same Could Be Said For One

eom

[bravenak]

46. I am speaking to the one

[cantbeserious]

48. You Speak To Yourself - Now It All Makes Sense

eom

[bravenak]

50. Can you not tell when you get spoken to? I can help. It's easy.

[cantbeserious]

75. We See One Speaking To Oneself Yet Again

eom

[bravenak]

77. Your screen name is apt

[cantbeserious]

81. Ad Hominen Attacks Are Against DU Rules

eom

[bravenak]

84. How is that Ad Homi(nen)?

Explain, please.

[cantbeserious]

86. One Denigrated My Username - No One Denigrated Your Username

eom

[bravenak]

87. I like your user name. It fits you as well as mine fits me. That's why you chose it, no?

[cantbeserious]

89. Irony - Seems Lost On Many These Days - I Assure That One Is Quite Serious In All That One Does

eom

[bravenak]

90. As one should be.

[cantbeserious]

93. Truly

eom

[donf]

135. They already did…

they were called the DLC.

[bravenak]

136. .

[TheKentuckian]

162. So boring that a bunch of conservatives embraced a D next to their name and kept all of their

regressive, interventionist, corporate, anti civil liberties, and broadly wrongheaded policies?

Neither wise nor sensible nor honorable. We have kids that have to grow up in this bipartisan mess being cooked up in cooperation with vulture class that have been stepping on our necks since before this country was founded and who reap almost all the rewards.

Yeah, that is something to sleep to. Makes me damn near see red and quite nauseous.

You demand corporate owned conservative hacks then have at it but don't expect a bit of help choosing your favorite flavor. Suck on the straight, uncut dope for a few cycles and maybe enough will wake up before there is no hope I guess but I'm going to try hard to not allow that to be the choice but if that is the one sought again then I insist to the best of my ability to make sure you really get what you demand.
I can't override the will of the people but I can avoid lifting a finger to help you get what you insist on with a spoonful of sugar to make the shit go down.

[bravenak]

166. Yes. Boring.

These repetitive angry attacks against Democrats are boring me to death. That's why these ops. I get bored with trashing Democrats.

[Thinkingabout]

30. K & R

Good post, got me thinking, probably will not happen this time for sure. Maybe a book and a book tour and then on to great riches. Perhaps in demand for speaking engagements. George W thought be would be rich from all the speaking engagements.

[bravenak]

33. I think a book tour would be a financially sound idea.

What do I know? That may have been the overall goal, a increase in wealth.

[Thinkingabout]

34. Do you think sales will be high?

[bravenak]

36. I think the speaking tour will pay better myself.

[Thinkingabout]

61. Yes if you are in demand.

I would rather attend your speech.

[bravenak]

66. Yeah. I won't YELL at you and point like i'm petting two differently sized horses the entire time.

[giftedgirl77]

152. Hahahaha, fuckin priceless.

[bravenak]

154. I wish I could fall asleep.

Migraine.

[giftedgirl77]

157. Aww, I'm sorry. I hate those fuckers.

If it makes you feel better my whole body has been twitching uncontrollably for about a week.

[bravenak]

159. It does make me feel better.

When I drag my ass into class, I can think at least my body is cooperating. Even if my mind is not.

[giftedgirl77]

161. Exactly, try some green tea or chocolate.

The little bit of caffeine may help.

[bravenak]

163. It's only 1 hour and 20 minutes of class.

I will get a coffee and power through. My head is feeling better by the minute.
Hey. This thread is mad funny. Omg. There was one today that will make you insane. My oh my. So much stupid.

[giftedgirl77]

170. So much denial & seething hatred is more like it.

I can't help but laugh at the poor little souls. I swear if I hear one more time "just wait until ppl get to know him" I'm going to toss my phone in my pool. Apparently ppl don't understand the whole point of a grassroots campaign is to bring ppl to your side & introduce them to your candidate not insult & ostracize the ppl you need most.

[bravenak]

155. Watch his hands while he talks. You cannot unsee.

[riderinthestorm]

32. Strawman. Sanders is running as a Dem

He's not running as a third party candidate

Besides do you really think Trump is running as a "Republican"?

These are two populists running outside the system.

Trump will be the Rethug nominee.

Those who are "outside" conventional party lines are hot tickets.

Ugh. Facile and simplistic bashing.

[Jim Lane]

39. I think it was the same year a woman won the Democratic nomination.

Unless Martin O'Malley can put on a surge, we're making history this year one way or another.

Most voters are considering the candidates on their merits. There are some who won't support Sanders because of party label, and some who won't support Clinton because of gender. My personal guess, based on essentially no data except a gut feeling, is that neither of these voting blocs will be of major importance.

[bravenak]

41. I think Democrats will go democratic for the most part.

I predict that this is as high as he goes unless he comes up with a superplan.

[Phlem]

52. Doh!

[brooklynite]

42. As a Clinton supporter, I think this is a meaningless issue to tag Sanders with...

[bravenak]

45. I don't. I do not see him helping downticket. We need those seats.

[Lordquinton]

58. the DNC isn't helping down ticket

DWS actively campaigning for Republicans? If you were really concerned about that topic, you'd be calling out the "democratic" leaders currently in charge who are screwing us downstream.

[bravenak]

63. Well, I suppose we'd better vote Hillary so that the DNC does not have to support a non Democrat.

[msongs]

60. surely he will campaign for dems running for dog catcher, city council, county supervisor,

state house reps and and state senators, and congressional reps and senate candidates too, as they are all democrats together right?

[bravenak]

62. Does he campaign for many Dems?

[Lazy Daisy]

97. If he draws more actual voters

How is it he won't help down ticket? Bernie is exciting people who normally wouldn't bother, young and old.
How many different people have contributed to his campaign? How many to Hillary? People who pay money tend to bet on their horse.

[bravenak]

101. I wouldn't worry about him drawing more actual voters.

He is no obama. Plus he seems to yell alot. That did not help Dean very much.

[Hortensis]

105. Actually, I think Bernie's doing a lot of good for the

Democratic Party, including HRC's candidacy, btw. Someone would be at least running #2 to HRC's #1, after all.

Bernie is bringing new hope -- and demonstrating new promise -- that we can and will return to the progressive liberalism that served America so well before it was replaced with a destructive conservativism.

Contrast that with Biden, for instance, who would have required a dirty, nasty campaign before we were allowed to make our choice between the candidate in the pants and the one in the pantsuit.

Now, if O'Malley had pulled up... But he hasn't. Maybe next time.

[bravenak]

107. Bernie is pessimistic.

How does repeating all the things he thinks is wrong over and over without any solution, hopeful?
I feel like he's yelling at me. I do not seem him provide workable solutions, just talk of revolution. Talk of revolution always brings a certain number of folks, but his number are stagnating now that Hillary is actually campaigning. She is drawing the endorsements and visiting minority groups and getting awesome poll numbers. How can he compete? He cannot. Obama had charisma and a hopeful vibe, made people feel positive, not depressed.

[Hortensis]

127. Yes, you're right. I seldom listen to his words, so I tend to

think of him as a person who is helping reveal to the world that liberalism is very much alive in America. Polls haven't shown that, in part because people don't like to identify themselves as "liberal" since the GOP made that a dirty word, so we are drastically underrepresented in those "people who identify themselves as liberals are X% of the electorate" and "self-identified liberals support Y" results.

I suspect/hope that will turn out to be a very big contribution.

That many of his programs would not be doable as he laid them out even if he were elected is obviously not going to be an issue.

As for both incessantly badmouthing and incessantly using the Democratic Party, it's worked for him because we let him. Aren't we the big tent? Now, if he'd tried that with the GOP...! Well, actually, he could have now that I think of it; but like the ReThugs, he'd have needed his own personal billionaire to protect and support him.

[bravenak]

130. I see him giving voices that felt marginalized a chance to speak out

But anger only takes us so far, then we need to roll up our sleeves and find solutions. But I'm glad he is running to bring up these tough issues and I hope the winner can find some proactive solutions.

[Hortensis]

133. Yes to that. Just hope those he's inspired continue to

find reason for stay involved as this continues. It's never about the candidates, after all, but about us and what we want.

[eridani]

185. Clinton has absolutely zero appeal to the alienated voters who sat out 2014

Sanders is organizing them.

[bravenak]

204. Bernie has small appeal to the black community. Who vote.

[eridani]

210. I guess that means that the black community is in love with mass incarceration and welfare deform

And is not interested in a $15/hr minimum wage or free public college tuition. (Well, not really--most voters of all colors are not information junkies who know about candidate platforms this far in advance. In November of 2007, most were supporting Clinton as well.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/clarence-b-jones/reflections-on-the-2014-midterm-elections_b_6121918.html

66% of African Americans stayed home in 2014, not too different from the overall 63%. Among voters under 30 of all colors, absenteeism was 80%. Apparently Clinton can win without the Millennials, who are now more numerous than their boomer parents.

[Warren Stupidity]

181. now see, stop making sense, you are going to alienate yourself from the pack.

[MisterP]

49. when the only other alternative is someone who's not a Democrat in any substantive sense

[bravenak]

51. She and Martin are the only Democrats in the race.

We do not let outsiders tell us what a democrat is so Bernie cannot define us.

[SunSeeker]

122. ^^^THIS^^^

[Cha]

183. Exactly. bernie's always raging on the Dems.. saying there's no difference between us and the gop

so wtf does he know?

[eridani]

186. That's only when he's not supporting more of the Democratic Party platform than Clinton n/g

[Cha]

187. Nah.. he's always raging on the Dems. Hillary's a much better choice for President.

[eridani]

208. Only if you like war and propping up banksters n/t

[Cha]

209. Hillary's a better choice for America.. I don't care what bernie supporters have to say.

[eridani]

213. Endless war is not a better choice for America.

Nor is letting banksters get by with murder.

[Cha]

214. that's your bogus spiel.

[eridani]

215. Iraq war vote? Libya total chaos? Those things didn't happen? n/t

[Cha]

216. so? That doesn't mean there's going to be "endless war".. that's what the BS supporters say.

[eridani]

217. Yes, it does. This is someone who says that Iranians are her enemy

Not ayatollahs, not the Iranian government. Iranians. We've been in Afghanistan 14 years, and apparently leaving is not in the cards.

[Cha]

218. No it doesn't.

[eridani]

219. Explain what she is going to do about the military-industrial complex, then n/t

[Cha]

220. Hillary's Presidency does not mean "endless wars".

[eridani]

221. She has never met a war she didn't like. Why will she stop as president?

Iraq war, the coup in Honduras, trashing Libya as a functioning state. Not good recommendations.

[Cha]

222. You're thinking of john mccain.

[eridani]

223. Yes--the guy that she said passed the 3am red phone call test, unlike Obama

I see little difference between Clinton and McCain on foreign policy. Though McCain would undoubtedly be worse.

[Cha]

224. That was then this is now.. ya'll really need to keep up

[eridani]

225. Sorry, the weathervane is spinning too fast for me to follow

McCain: Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran.

Clinton: We came, we saw, he died.

Slaughtering brown people in the ME is such a hilarious topic. You must enjoy les bons mots no end.

[Cha]

226. Obviously hard to keep up to the reality of now.

[eridani]

227. I don't have to accept your fucking reality of the permanent decline of the 99%

Sad how gutless cheerleading for the status quo has become so common here.

[Cha]

228. HAHA.. you don't have to accept reality.

[eridani]

229. I'm working to change it. You apparently like income inequality and war

If that's what you accept, you are part of the problem.

[Cha]

230. There's my point right there. BS supporters are not into reality.

[eridani]

231. Nobody who isnsists that how things are now is the way they have to be ever did--

--anything in their lives that was worth doing.

[Cha]

232. Yes proved my point.

[eridani]

233. Which was? n/t

[Cha]

234. LOL

[Kentonio]

191. Stop pretending you speak for the Democratic party

All you've done recently is post endless egotistical comments about how the Democratic party thinks and what it will do and what it will allow. Sorry, you're not that important, and that arrogance is a perfect reflection of the DLC leadership arrogance that has caused huge numbers of people to turn their backs on the party.

[bravenak]

196. I am very important.

[Kentonio]

199. I'm sure you are

But placing your own personal worth over other peoples is kind of the antithesis of the party. If the Democrats don't stand for every person having an equal voice, then who does?

[lovemydog]

54. Never.

I think I'm the first person to answer your question.

[bravenak]

57. Thank you!!

[lovemydog]

71. Honestly.

You could ask 'Who won the World Series?' here and you'd probably get a hundred replies telling you to fuck off.

People are pretty damn uptight, if you ask me.

[Bonobo]

64. I don't give a crap.

Ultimately, a country really does get the leadership it deserves.

None of us is going to be surprised that Hillary wins this thing.

Advocating for the most Progressive candidate is always a losing battle in America.

I hope you are happy with the choices you made and the advocacy you devoted yourself to.

[bravenak]

69. I know you don't.

And people should remember this thing I'm doing in the future. It takes very little effort to give pat answers. To be extra polite. Courteous but distant. No offers of reconciliation have met any eyes I am connected to, offers of truce, only from you. Therefore I still like you even when you get all mad. You really should not get so mad cause idk, maybe I enjoy it now. Like elementary school. You get mad, I wanna sit next to you at lunch. You pull my hair, I think you like me. And on it goes until I'm chasing you around the playground.

[Bonobo]

72. God.

It's fucking hard to be mad at you but shit, you keep pushing my buttons.

Imma dip your ponytail in the inkwell.

[bravenak]

74. Please do.

[Maedhros]

65. Why should it matter, if getting the best possible President is the goal? [n/t]

[bravenak]

78. I want downticket seat too.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

67. When the party is loyal to us, I'll be loyal to the party....

Who am I kidding?



That's me all over.

[jtuck004]

73. Bill Clint...no, he said he was a Democrat. Oh, wait. That must have been rhetorical.

Your question, I mean.

[Yallow]

80. Which Candidate Has Positions That Will Help The Most Americans

Answer that one brave one....

After getting all that oligarch money, I really doubt your candidate will slow down their feeding at the trough.

http://www.amazon.com/Pigs-Trough-Corporate-Corruption-Undermining/dp/1400051266

Pigs at The Trough

[bravenak]

82. Positions? I have dreams too.

What can they get done with a republican congress? Nothing. I am not into pipe dreams or getting smoke blown up my you know what. He has no way of passing his agenda, besides revolution. I doubt Republicans are joining the Socialist revolution. Most Democrats either. Almost pointless to see him run at this point. The nation is not ready.

[Yallow]

95. I Can Tell By The Tens Of Thousands At Hillary's Rallys

How much enthusiasm there is for her, with the folks who will help down ballot.

Both you and I will fight for Hillary for president if she is the nominee. A republican president would probably destroy what's left of our country. Just like the last one, actually 3 did. We are still paying for the damage Bush, and Reagan did. Poppy Bush, not so much, but still he trashed our economy. At least he had a little class.

We disagree on which candidate will help other Democrats. I know I am right. The problem is Gerrymandering, a press that supports oligarchs (and all wars) first, and most of the oligarchs, and all their trillions. They will do anything to stop any kind of change. We simply have to turn their money against them, and Bernie can do it. Hillary is on the take......

Good luck brave one.

[bravenak]

102. I am barely fighting yet. But yes, we will fight together one day.

I'm glad you are true to yourself. Good! That is a good thing. I see all politicians as on the take in one way or another. They all make compromises.

[Warren Stupidity]

182. That is a lame argument.

[bravenak]

203. I give what is needed. No more is needed to win.

[MattSh]

83. And you stay up all night...

worrying about shit like this? Does it really matter?

[bravenak]

85. Not really.

The fact that my asking is a problem amuses me.

[JDPriestly]

88. Non-Dem? Do you mean Hillary?

[bravenak]

91. Bernie. The Independent. Hillary is a registered Democrat.

[JDPriestly]

98. They are both Democrats now.

[bravenak]

100. On what date did Bernie register? I must have missed it.

[JDPriestly]

108. Voters do not have to "register" for a party in Vermont.

[bravenak]

110. Ok. On what date did he declare that he is a Democrat?

[JDPriestly]

115. I believe he announced that he is running as a Democrat.

The Democratic Party is a big tent. We have discussed this quite a bit on DU. This is not a problem. He is in the Democratic debates. There is no problem regarding Bernie's party affiliation.

The Democrats in Congress are happy that he votes and caucuses with Democrats.

[bravenak]

116. I have a problem with his lack of affiliation.

I shall try to ensure that others think on it.

[waldo.c]

94. Quick Question: When has a non-Democrat ever won the Democratic nomination?

This time

[bravenak]

112. Are you psychic! Me too! Except you are wrong.. Are you sure you cleaned your crystal ball?

Mine says Hillary FTW!!!

[drm604]

96. Define "Democrat"

In his home state, they have open primaries so he's not registered there as any party, at least for voting. He was an Independent because that's how he was listed on the ballot. How else would you define the party of someone from an open primary state? I don't think that there is any other way to define party membership in his state.

Now he's registered as a candidate in the Democratic primary. He's on the ballot as a Democrat. So by the same definition used to call him an Independent, he's now a Democrat.

If I lived my whole life in a state with open primaries, and thus never registered as a member of a party, and I then decided to run for President on the Democratic ticket, in what way would I not be a Democrat?

I realize that he ran as an independent in the past, but people change parties all the time.

In any case, how many voters do you really think are going to even think about this?

[bravenak]

106. I mean a member of the party who want to change from inside through cooperation.

Not somebody whose goal is to force change from outside or use us just for gain. I hate that.

[Vattel]

146. Yay! Bravenak has officially conceded that Bernie is a Democrat!

She does think that he is a Democrat "who wants to force change from outside and use us just for gain," whatever that means, but I am happy about the concession.

[bravenak]

148. Read my sigline.

[Vattel]

150. I know, but you redefining "Democrat."

You pretty much conceded that Bernie is a member of the Democratic party, as that expression is normally understood.

[bravenak]

151. He does not like the Democratic party. He is no Democrat.

"I will continue the beatings until morale improves." I wish I knew who said this.

[Vattel]

179. Yes, you think he is a Democrat, but not a "Democrat." I get it.

[azurnoir]

103. well there's a first time for everything

[bravenak]

104. True. We will see.

[jfern]

114. This is a pretty lame attack

[bravenak]

119. Sure

But it is an easy one to use because it is true.

[jfern]

123. He's been a member of the Democratic caucus for almost 25 years

And endorsed every Democratic nominee for at least that long. And Vermont doesn't have party registration. And he votes similarly to other liberal Democrats.

[bravenak]

126. He is no Democrat

[jfern]

129. Whoever gets the nomination, Bernie included, will be the Democrat

[bravenak]

131. Good think he's losing then

[Martin Eden]

138. Sanders is your candidate, bravenak

He represents your interests far better than Hillary ever would.

Pretty soon this will finally sink in, and you'll cease all your desperate and illogical attempts to justify voting for Hillary Clinton. Just open your mind and think rationally.

You'll vote for Bernie in the Democratic primary and be mighty glad you finally came to your senses.

[bravenak]

141. But you are condescending!

[Martin Eden]

144. And, hopefully, correct about your conversion!

[bravenak]

145. Already was for bernie. Dropped him after netroots. No leadership.

The harassment of black individuals was never addressed. As a black individual, I find that too much to bear. I will not support they guy with that group. It would be like me approving of their behaiviour and his lack of leadership. I do not approve. And nothing has changed. They are still exactly the same, sadly. And he also never changes. So, nothing will change. I like him as a person. Just do not want him running the nation. An inclusive environment is sacrosanct. He lacks that attribute. I have never been paternalized, condescended to, abused, insulted, harassed, called filthy names, or just straight up attacked so much in my life as I have been this year. I think There is a novel in this. At least a study by social scientists. It would take a personal call from Bernie to get me to stop mentioning it. Plus he'd have to actually DO something.

[djean111]

139. I know that I, and my family, and my friends, are all really looking forward to voting for Bernie.

So are a lot of other people I know.

So - we shall see, won't we?

[Bluenorthwest]

140. I'm a Democrat, not a DOMAcrat.

The DOMAcrats keep casting their bread upon the waters then later they complain about having soggy sandwiches.

[bravenak]

153. I do not deal with the type of treatment doled out to me.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

142. Were you telling the truth when you said you supported Sanders?

Because if you were supporting Sanders a couple of months ago and now you think it's a bad idea for him to run, I question your judgment. Why should anyone heed the words of someone who can't make an informed decision?

[bravenak]

143. Of course. Until I realized he had no control over his campaign.

I do not fall in love with politicians. If a person's supporters treat black people disrespectfully, I see it as a sign of future treatment. If they ignore it, I see them as unsympathetic.
Had people behaved themselves I would be supporting him still. I refuse to fight a war with a candidates supoorters in order to give him my support. I felt like many needed a wake up call on their behaiviour and to do some soul searching. I am merely waiting for the moment when as a group they decide to be nice to us rather that to educate us against our will, stop pulling out their white friends with a drop of black blood from 1850 to play oppression olympics with us as 'the real poc', stop trying to beat us up with hillarys racist stuff while ignoring their own and hav a meeting where they decide to weed out the jerks. None of that will happen. I do not put up with that crap for anybody, let alone a Senator who is not my own. I owe him nothing.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

168. No, you don't owe him anything. But people would do well to think twice before heeding your words.

After all, 3 months ago you were 180 degrees out from where you are now, and you'd like for people to ignore your previous words in favor of the new ones. I look for a little more stability than that when I seek out political advice. That was my only point.

[bravenak]

169. Thank you for implying instability in me.

I change based on events. I am not you. And sadly for you, and him, I Am very good at supporting a candidate effectively. It is ok. Had people decided to keep me in the fold they would be receiving my support. I go where needed and wanted, not where I will be abused, just so that people won't find me 'unstable'. It would indicate instability if I were to remain in an abusive situation. I leave if mistreated and I was VERY MISTREATED. Fix that and you fix this issue you seem to have with my vigorous support. It will never happen. No way to fix things that people think are not broken in the first place.

[LWolf]

149. I have a different question and answer.

When has a Democrat I actually wanted to vote for, rather than voting against the republican, ever won the Democratic nomination?

Answer: Never in my lifetime.

Yet I haven't given up or gone away; I still keep fighting to make it happen. If we were always to elect Dem Presidents, and primaries were only every 8 years, I figure I've got another 3 or 4 chances. I'm not going to throw any of those chances away.

As far as I'm concerned, Sanders is great for the Democratic Party, while neo-liberals, including the Clintons, have moved the party in directions I'm not now, never have been, never will be, willing to go.

That's probably why so many Democrats WANT Sanders to be the leader of the party.

Of course, the enthusiasm that Sanders is generating, bringing so many to the process, and bringing people to register with the Democratic party, will trickle down to other races. As a matter of fact, that's what the "political revolution" is all about; citizens being active in the process and working for the changes they want to see.

That's as positive as it gets, whether he wins the nomination or not. Until the convention, he's got my full support for the nomination. After the convention, if he's not the nominee, I'll be working down ticket where ever I can find good non-neo-liberals to support.

[UglyGreed]

156. Bill Clinton

Obama???

[bravenak]

158. So what? I do not feel moved by spam videos.

[UglyGreed]

164. again Obama

said it yet it's spam. How come people do not take what Politicians say for the truth? Hillary words and and now Obama's. I just don't get it.

[bravenak]

165. .

I have gone round this too many times. Trashing Obama just makes me mad. I do not like it. It does not help. I end up posting ops. Then people hate me for it but I was mad first, secretly.

[Gothmog]

160. The members of the Democratic party are able to determine who is a Democrat

[bravenak]

167. Very true. And We will.

[NCTraveler]

175. Hillary will be the first!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251761072

lol

[bravenak]

198. This place is funny.

[earthside]

176. Horace Greeley, 1872. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

177. Who will the Socialists in the Democratic Party vote for?

[ljm2002]

188. Quick Question: When has a non-Male ever won the Democratic nomination?

I just don't see how a non-Male can beat a popular Male for the Democratic Party Nomination for President. Has this ever happened before?

My only point here is that just because something has not happened before, does not mean it cannot -- or should not -- happen now.

Carry on.

[bravenak]

197. Who is this popular male she has to beat?

She is beating all males running on the Dem side, Democrat or Not. 2016. Mark your calendar. Here she comes to save the day!!!!

[ljm2002]

206. Non sequiturs much?

You questioned whether a certain thing had ever happened. I responded with another relevant example of something that had never happened.

We were not discussing Hillary's standing in the polls.

TTFN

[bravenak]

207. You brought popular males up, not I.

[Android3.14]

201. I don't know about the past, but if Hillary wins the nomination

Then I'd have to say 2016 is the answer.
Unless, of course, your not counting DINOs.

[bravenak]

202. Allright! 2016!