Clinton used race as a campaign tactic in 2008 - she's doing worse now

[berni_mccoy]

Last edited Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:29 PM - Edit history (3)

"There is no other way to judge someone than by their actions" -- A Hillary supporter on this site said this to me in reference to a post that I made. I agree with this.

Clinton should be judged by her actions. Her candidacy for POTUS should be also. And there is no better way to judge someone who is running for office than by how they run their campaign or past campaigns.

Note that I'm not calling Clinton a racist. I'm pointing out things that her campaign did in 2008 and how they are similar to the tactics she is employing today. I prefer to allow her campaign actions serve as a basis for judging her since this is what a Clinton supporter here recommended.

In 2008, Clinton's campaign employed several racially oriented tactics, most of them disgusting, and at least one of them was illegal.

Campaign Mailers With The Image Of A Gun Pointing At Obama's Head:
One of the first things Clinton employed against Obama was his stance on Gun Control. Her campaign created an Ad that actually had a gun pointed at Obama's head. Politico still has the image here:
and the story: http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/05/clinton-mailings-gun-gaffe-008398 noting that, not only was it inappropriate to have the gun pointing at Obama's head, but that the ad was poorly crafted and that the gun picture had to be positioned intentionally by mirroring the actual image since no left-handed versions of this gun existed. That is, pointing the gun at his head was intentional and by design and approved of by Hillary herself. What's ironic is that Clinton was calling Obama out on too strict of a stance on Gun Control after having been previously reluctant to pursue the issue, which is exactly the stance Clinton has taken now (being more supportive of Gun rights in 2008 than now), and even moreso that this is one of the first issues that she's gone after Sanders on. Kettle, pot, black, etc. etc. Regardless of the issue and the political stance, having a rifle pointed at the first likely black candidate for POTUS was definitely a racial dog whistle.

Campaign Finance Member, Ferraro, Forced To Resign Campaign Because She Claimed Obama Was Only Doing Well Because He Was Black:
Incredible as it sounds, Clinton's campaign finance manager, Geraldine Ferraro actually said "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color), he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept." (see: http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-news/20080311/ferraro-defends-controversial-comments-on-barack-obama ) Any time someone that high up and visible makes a remark like that, you know that's actually a tiny leak of what's going on inside the campaign. Furthermore the campaign didn't force her to resign, she left on her own (see: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/ferraro-quits-clinton-post/?_r=1 ) And if there is any doubt, we've only just started getting into the weeds with the tactics.'

Clinton Stokes "Obama Is A Muslim" By Not Fully Denying That He Isn't:
During a 60 minutes interview, Clinton was asked directly if she knew Obama was not a Muslim. Her response "As far as I know". That's not so dissimilar from Trump's stance, who says we don't know that he's not. A short excerpt of the interview is here:

and a more in-context re-cap is here:

Clinton Campaign Caught Darkening Obama's Skin In Campaign Ads:

The blogosphere exploded in 2008 when the Clinton campaign was caught darkening the skin of Obama to make him appear blacker than he was. This was in early March just before Ferraro was forced to resign. Clinton's campaign initially refuted the charge, but even Wired noted the Clinton Ad photographic content was modified: http://www.wired.com/2008/03/did-the-clinton/ And this was initially noted by Kos: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/03/05/469677/-Clinton-campaign-making-Obama-blacker And even I did a story here doing some photo analysis: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/berni_mccoy/249 .

Clinton Chief Of Staff Women's Voices Women's Votes Illegally Robocalled African Americans in NC
As I covered here in 2008, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5769438 , A voter suppression robocall was made by WVWV, an organization headed by Joseph Podesta, former Chief-of-Staff for Clinton. As noted, members of the GOP went to jail for similar tactics in NH and the NC AG forced WVWV to stop and formally investigated the organization. Maggie Williams, Clinton's campaign manager for 2008, was on the WVWV board until 2007. This was definitely a racially motivated tactic to disenfranchise black voters in NC.

Links to original stories on Illegal Robocalls by Clinton Campaign:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/nonprofit_womens_voices_women.php
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15388.html

There were many more racially motivated tactics in 2008. The most infuriating part of the tactics employed were that the Clinton campaign would continuously blame the Obama campaign for race-baiting them. As if the Obama campaign would force them "offsides" like forcing illegal motion in a football game. It's a ridiculous claim and only Karl Rove could have come up with that as a response to all the disgusting behavior of that campaign.

Back To The Present:
The most disturbing part of this is that the Clinton Campaign is doing it again. They've already tried to charge Sanders with racisms and sexism, both ridiculous claims if anyone looks at the surface of them. And she has different people now. So this type of behavior isn't just coming from her campaign... it's approved by her and given that it is happening now and it happened then, it only tells me that she will do and say anything to get elected.

Some have pointed out that how could Obama have her as Secretary of State after that campaign? The question is how could he not? If he didn't, the party would never have healed from that. And it's unlikely Obama would have gotten anything done between 2009 and 2012 if that hadn't happened. Let's be clear, this isn't forgiveness for forgivable acts; this was sacrifice by Obama for the sake of the party. And perhaps he brushed these tactics off as just that: she did and said anything to get elected. If that's the case, it was worth having her as Secretary of State in order to heal the rift of the party.

Others have pointed out that John Lewis supports her. Of course he does, because she supports firming up the Voting Rights Act. Why would she do all of the above? Does it matter since she actually did that in 2008? And besides she supports the Voting Rights Act when it means she's getting the black vote and the GOP really has no chance of getting it. Many of her supporters have pointed out that Bernie has no chance at winning the black vote and that Hillary "owns" it. Let's be clear: if she takes it for granted like she did in 2008, she's not going to win, even if Bernie is an old white man. She assumes she has the black vote, but I, and many many others, have not forgotten what she has done in the past. And when she meets with BlackLivesMatter, she can't help letting her racial insensitivities show: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/08/18/black_lives_matter_activist_criticizes_hillarys_confrontation_with_group_she_did_what_most_white_people_do.html

And now she comes out in support of the Death Sentence, a barbaric practice that has DISPROPORTIONATELY affected African American Men, it is clear she is in clear jeopardy of not sustaining the African American vote, especially when she continues to throw BLM protesters out of her rallies and speeches.

But if she wants to play the victim card, and call Bernie sexist, please senator, proceed. You'll just show you haven't learned a damn thing.

ON UPDATE:
Since several naysayers have claimed that this is not fact based and sour grapes and what not, here is my official response to that:

Anyone who was here and present during 2008 knows what I posted is the truth.

If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe these people who were also there:

The Progressive: "Clinton's ran a racist campaign"
http://progressive.org/news/2008/01/5995/obama-trounces-clintons’-racist-entitled-sc-campaign

Professor Vernellia Randall of the University of Dayton: "The Malicious Political Tactics of the Clinton Campaign"
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/2008electionandracism/Clinton/clinton04.htm

And if you will remember, Mark FUCKING Penn's own emails:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/09/the-front-runner-s-fall/306944/

Contest the black vote at every opportunity. Keep him pinned down there.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. "I look forward to fighting for her the way she’s fighting for all of us."-John Lewis

When I set off to march across the Edmund Pettus bridge in Selma, Alabama, 50 years ago, I did so with the knowledge that I might not come back alive.

But I also knew that what we were trying to accomplish was vital to holding on to the promise of our country: that every person, regardless of race, had a say in their government.

I could never have guessed that in the year 2015, I’d be fighting essentially the same fight all over again.

While Republican candidates keep insisting that there isn’t a problem, Hillary Clinton has committed to turning the tide in favor of expanding voting rights for all Americans. That’s why I’m proud to be alew0-015.jpg part of this week's launch of African Americans for Hillary -- and I hope you’ll join me.

I was proud to hear Hillary reaffirm her commitment to protecting voting rights in Alabama recently at the Alabama Democratic Conference Convention -- as well as to reforming our criminal justice system and advocating for funding for historically black colleges and universities.

I look forward to fighting for her the way she’s fighting for all of us. That starts right here, when you stand with her.

-John Lewis

[berni_mccoy]

3. I know. If you read my post, you'd see that I covered that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I take my lead on civil rights from John Lewis, not anonymous internet posters.

eom

[berni_mccoy]

11. You're entitled to your opinion and to believe whatever you like in the face of facts.

[Bread and Circus]

94. You should actually do your own thinking.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

101. If you think doing your own thinking

If you believe doing your own thinking and taking leads from experts in their field are mutually exclusive there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.

Furthermore I will defer to the wisdom of John Lewis over one or a multitude of anonymous internet posters.

Thank you in advance.

[PosterChild]

164. Good point, people who say...

...."do your own thinking" often mean " believe any silly ass thing I have to say".

By the way, I had the pleasure of running into Mr. Lewis at a photography exhibition and had the honor of hearing some of his off the cuff remembrances about some of the pictures including the one you posted above. He went through the names of those in the picture. A very impressive and heroic gentleman.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

165. Taking the lead from a black guy who still bears a lump on his head at the hands of white racists...

Taking the lead on civil rights from a black guy who still bears a lump on his head at the hands of white racists for asking to be treated like everybody else, the horror ???


SMH

[Bluenorthwest]

231. I have a request out to Lewis to explain why he supports her DOMA revisionism when he was one of

the best and clearest opponents of DOMA. I am looking forward to his parsing out a narrative.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

232. The DOMA vote was awful, a political cave of Biblical proportions There is no defending it...

That being said , liberal luminaries like Tom Harkin and Paul Wellstone voted for it as well as did the sitting vice president. In any case, I don't want to be judged by my worst moments so I will refrain from judging others by theirs.

[840high]

169. Why don't you think for yourself?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

170. Asked and answered.

[LexVegas]

5. It kills them that minorities overwhelmingly support Clinton. nt

[berni_mccoy]

6. I'm ok with Clinton believing that.

[bravenak]

15. She has it. Only somebody in a dreamworld thinks Bernie is winning with Blacks.

[berni_mccoy]

17. Ok.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. "She has it. Only somebody in a dreamworld thinks Bernie is winning with Blacks"

[bravenak]

35. Corporate polls!!!

[greatauntoftriplets]

38. Barber poles!

?w=670&h=405&crop=1

[bravenak]

114. Heh!

[berni_mccoy]

45. Now I know why so many Clinton supporters are afraid of this OP.

[Scootaloo]

51. They're comfortable with taking black people for granted

I remember the outcry of how black people "backstabbed" Clinton back in 2008. clinton supporters very seriously believe that the Clintons are owed by African Americans.

It's why they work so hard to dismiss and belittle black men and women, and other people of color, who support Sanders or O'Malley. it threatens the narrative.

[monicaangela]

107. Spot On Scootaloo!!!

[ismnotwasm]

225. Except for the Clinton supporters that *are* African American

Fully aware of the influence and power they hold in this election. Thank God, no undue white influences bring them to the polls. AA's state unequivocally what the issues they care about are and while they are certainly not monolithic, the trend right now is to support Hillary. Perhaps Sanders will be able to change that, but not while Sanders supporters seriously think they are owed by African Americans.

They made up their own minds, and certainly aren't backstabbing, dismissing or belittling themselves.

[Scootaloo]

240. I was recently told that Sanders has no black supporters

None. Period. At all. They're all lying white people. Or they "don't count" for whatever reason. I have watched Clinton supporters call a black woman on DU "self-hating" for criticizing Obama on policy. I have watched you and your friends over on HCS "debate" whether a hispanic woman gets to be hispanic, if she is supporting anyone other than Clinton. I have seen the same attitude thrown at a Latina woman here on Du as well as Asian-Americans. Always from clinton supporters.

Don't tell me you guys don't take black people and other people of color for granted. Don't tell me you don't hold the belief that the Clintons are "owed" by the same people.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

241. I wish I could like this post a million times. Black people owe NOTHING to the Clintons! ZERO!

The problem is that we are putting politics and allegiance to party over what is right.

I think we will regret this embrace of the Clintons in the end. However, I understand that Hillary Clinton has the best chance of beating the Republicans. THAT IS WHY BLACKS ARE VOTING FOR HER!!! I don't think many blacks even like her or the Clintons, but we are behaving RATIONALLY!!!!!

And no, I'm not necessarily for Bernie Sanders, either, so Sanders fanatics shouldn't get too happy with what I'm posting.

[fbc]

265. Why do you think Hillary has the best chance of beating the republicans?

when the opposite is true.

Hillary is hated in the battleground states, the states the democrats NEED to win in order to win a general election.

She may be the one democratic candidate that can actually lose a general election even though there are so many structural factors that favor the democrats.

And what if Clinton does win? She's not going to be able to do anything with a Republican congress other than compromises that steal away programs that many Americans depend upon. The excitement for a Bernie Sanders presidency would win down ticket elections for democrats all over the nation. He is our best shot at restoring democratic control of congress.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

266. I wish Bernie could win, but I grow increasingly unconvinced with each passing day.

I'm sorry but I think we're stuck with the Clintons. I live in Maryland--a BLUE state where she'll win easily. I will not be voting for her.

[Thinkingabout]

176. Exactly, good post.

[Starry Messenger]

7. And that Obama and she worked together for 4 years.

[berni_mccoy]

20. As I noted.

[Starry Messenger]

24. So, I guess President Obama is a better person than others who post here?

[berni_mccoy]

30. I actually met him and, yeah, I think he is.

[Starry Messenger]

34. I wonder what he'd think about posts like the OP and this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251757007

[berni_mccoy]

42. I'm sure he would say the 2008 campaign was down and dirty

And that he went through great lengths to repair the damage it caused.

I'm also sure he'd be much more upset with Clinton's campaign doing the same shit again.

[Starry Messenger]

47. I'm sure he's feeling pretty great about Secretary Clinton's awesome numbers

Watching them campaign together is going to be inspiring.

Unlike Cosmic Kitten in her thread this morning, I don't see AA voters flocking to Ben Carson, which is a rather odd claim for a "progressive" to make. Not a good look to AA voters who might be undecided about Sanders.

Nor is the fact that was Sanders calling for Obama to be primaried in 2012.

[berni_mccoy]

49. He's certainly happy about Sander's run:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/25/obama-pot-smoking-socialist_n_7144856.html

I like Bernie. Bernie's an interesting guy. Apparently some folks want to see a pot-smoking socialist in the White House," Obama said, referring to the Vermont senator's interest in a campaign for the White House in 2016. "We could get a third Obama term after all. It could happen."

Note he referred to Sanders being president as a 3rd Obama term...

[Starry Messenger]

54. I'm sure you are aware of the context of his mirthful remarks.

If you took those seriously, I have no idea what to tell you.

Don't stop believin' though! It's always nice to meet a dedicated optimist.

[berni_mccoy]

56. Obama often uses humor to get a point across

It's one of the things I love about him.

[Starry Messenger]

61. Just keep on keeping on!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

66. Never try to convince somebody something isn't true when their whole world view depends on it...

Never try to convince somebody something is false when their whole world view depends on it being true.

[Starry Messenger]

72. Obama and Clinton reading DU together.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. Holding hands

Holding hands:




Kissing:

[Starry Messenger]

108. Going after Osama together:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-11-23/news/56385212_1_president-barack-obama-hillary-clinton-great-president

Hillary Clinton would be a great president: Barack Obama

WASHINGTON: "US President Barack Obama today said Hillary Clinton would be a formidable Democratic candidate and a great president if she decided to run for the 2016 election.

"I am very interested in making sure that I've got a Democratic successor. So I'm gonna do everything I can, obviously, to make sure that whoever the nominee is is successful. If she decides to run, I think she will be a formidable candidate and I think she'd be a great president," Obama told the ABC news in an interview"




Can't wait to see them all out together on the campaign trail!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

117. "Friendships involve a sense of trust and being in the foxhole together."

“I think Hillary will go down as one of the finest secretary of States we’ve had.By the time Hillary joined the administration, I felt very confident and comfortable in our working relationship. What did evolve was a friendship, as opposed to just a professional relationship. Friendships involve a sense of trust and being in the foxhole together.”

-Barack Obama

[bravenak]

116. No shit

[Starry Messenger]

131. Now that picture is going to crack me up every time I see it, lol

[lovemydog]

202. Let's caption it.

'Apparently we aren't democrats.'

'Mr. President, we have no conscience.'

'I may have Stockholm Syndrome.'

'Don't listen to John Lewis. Listen to that guy.'

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. I prefer to let African American folks make their own decisions.

As a white guy I have no desire to whitesplain things to them.

[berni_mccoy]

13. Same. How do you think the BLM members thrown out of Clinton's speech feel?

[frylock]

78. Something something John Lewis.

[Wotas]

191. People need to be able to make informed decisions

[DemocratSinceBirth]

193. As a white person I am confident black persons can make informed decisions, you?

EOM

[bravenak]

196. Thank you brother!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

197. Gee whiz...Imagine if African Americans were running around telling white people what to think...

They would have to do if for four hundred years just to get even.

[bravenak]

198. You know I could. Get me a robot body and I will.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

215. What this about is this white person not wanting to infantalize black persons ...

So is that what this is really about ?

People "getting even" for something they never personally experienced?

If you believe that African Americans are still not suffering from the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow, the latter of which many that are still alive lived under, there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion. And what this is about is this white person not wanting to infantalize black persons and wants to let them make their own decisions. That's how we roll in the land of the free and the home of the brave

I would add that given the tenor of this thread your remarks aren't surprising.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

217. How can a whole race be wrong? /nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

219. What did you say?

EOM

[DemocratSinceBirth]

221. A lot of folks don't seem to be into the independent senator from Vermont.

Maybe he needs to change and not them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

223. You make an outstanding point.

If I am doing what I believe to be right there is no need for me to move from the path of what I believe to be the righteous to get folks to like me. If they don't want me just as I am they are free to like someone else. That's how we roll in America.

[ismnotwasm]

227. Exactly

Looked at life from both sides now...

[PatrickforO]

257. That's a great song!

This might make a few people feel better - I've always loved it.

Rows and flows of angel hair
And ice cream castles in the air
And feather canyons everywhere
I've looked at clouds that way

But now they only block the sun
They rain and snow on everyone
So many things I would have done
But clouds got in my way

I've looked at clouds from both sides now
From up and down, and still somehow
It's cloud illusions I recall
I really don't know clouds at all

Moons and Junes and Ferris wheels
The dizzy dancing way you feel
As every fairy tale comes real
I've looked at love that way

But now it's just another show
You leave 'em laughing when you go
And if you care, don't let them know
Don't give yourself away

I've looked at love from both sides now
From give and take, and still somehow
It's love's illusions I recall
I really don't know love at all

Tears and fears and feeling proud
To say "I love you" right out loud
Dreams and schemes and circus crowds
I've looked at life that way

But now old friends are acting strange
They shake their heads, they say I've changed
Well something's lost, but something's gained
In living every day

I've looked at life from both sides now
From win and lose and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all

I've looked at life from both sides now
From up and down and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all

[ChiciB1]

253. OK Now I'm Confused... And Not That It Matters To Me What Your Race

is, just need clarification. I thought you said you're not white. Am I correct?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

242. Much appreciated.

[whatchamacallit]

14. 'Baffles' is more accurate n/t

[lewebley3]

238. Minorities support Clinton's: because is a friend, and Dem party leader

In Illinois our GOP Gov played the game of "Dem's aren't your friends" then
Gov Rauner screwed the minorities over, then gave jobs
to the few minority minister that supported him.

Obama I hoped will not sit on the side lines, Hillary will need
his talent and help to keep the White House in Dem's hands.

[tularetom]

33. That was 50 years ago, what has Cong Lewis done lately?

That's what we always hear about Sen Sanders anyway.

[workinclasszero]

98. I'll take the word of John Lewis over anybody

alive on this earth today.

Go Hillary!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

104. When it comes to civil rights so would I, comrade.

[DownriverDem]

234. Qualified Woman

I get that many here are for Bernie. I support Hillary, but I like Bernie. Why do Bernie folks attack Hillary? I am so proud to be able to vote for a qualified Dem woman like Hillary. I sometimes think many folks here miss that important fact. I have waited my whole adult life to be able to vote for a qualified Dem woman like Hillary! But if Bernie gets the Dem nomination, I will vote for him.

Can you folks say the same thing? If not, you will be handing the White House to a RWNJ.

[nyabingi]

235. John Lewis did some good work back in the day,

but since then he has become an establishment hack just like most of the CBC so it's no surprise he's endorsing Hillary.

I hate to see Black people confusing Hillary as an ally and friend, when she and her husband have proven time and time again that they are anything but. Lewis and all of these Black celebrity endorsers are part of what Black Agenda Report labels the "Black Misleadership Class", backing candidates who are going to protect the interests of the wealthy and politically-connected and only paying token lip service to other regular Black folk.

It's time to retire these dusty images of walks with MLK and bring it to 2015. The younger generation of Black Americans respect the "civil rights" generation, but these people have long ago ceased to be relevant advocates nowadays - the Black Lives Matter Movement is much more relevant and I'm glad they are now turning their attention to Hillary and her arrogant self-confidence that Black people should praise her and receive her with open arms.

Black people care about more than just voting rights and the criminal justice system, Hillary.

[brooklynite]

2. A lot of this point is over the top, but I don't have time to go through it all.

So, to speed things up, remind me whom President Obama appointed as Secretary of State?

[berni_mccoy]

4. I know. If you read my post, you'd see that I covered that.

[luvspeas]

9. Sorry, don't have time to read this-these folks might be interested though...

http://insider.foxnews.com/contact-us

[bravenak]

12. This helps Bernie lose the few black voters he has left.

Nice tactic. I guess you don't mind us bringing up the racist stuff from the grasroots this summer for the next ten years. Because I have that long and then some to remind you all of it. Over and over. Maybe We need another Bravenak thread about this Summer and the Grassroots? I can discuss that racist letter I got.

[berni_mccoy]

16. You're free to say whatever you want.

[bravenak]

21. Good. I will when I come back from errands. Brace yourself. Just kidding.

[berni_mccoy]

28. I look forward to it. I'm already sitting down though...

[bravenak]

29. Lol!

[whatchamacallit]

25. I disagree

I believe anyone informed or reminded of these disgusting tactics would be put off, especially PoC.

[bravenak]

32. Well black peope are used to it and most forgive her. Nuff said. We still remember.

[whatchamacallit]

37. For the life of me

I can't understand why you forgive her. Honestly bravenak, this shit goes so far beyond Bernie's perceived transgressions that it blows the mind.

[luvspeas]

52. IKR? Those pesky Alaskans just won't do what they're told...

[whatchamacallit]

64. I get it

Don't have an answer? Post some lame shit.

[whatchamacallit]

81. Who are my people?

[bravenak]

105. Lol!

AND I DO IT IN ALL CAPS!!

[luvspeas]

109. I so love to make you laugh!

It cracked me up too.

[bravenak]

113. Thank you. It actually looks like an Alaskan.

[luvspeas]

118. Omfg

I really just did this!

[rbrnmw]

136. DON'T FORGET THESE

[bravenak]

138. Oops!!!

Pointless bouncy time!!!!

[bravenak]

120. I don't forgive anybody ever. I'm mean. But the Queen's enemies are mine own so, meh.

Whatevs.

[whatchamacallit]

124. What does that even mean?

Who is the queen?

[bravenak]

132. Lol!

The people attacking Hillary spent the entire Summer attacking blacks. One even decided to send me some mail. That is too much for me. Bernie has no leadership skills if he cannot control his peeps. He barely notices the harassment of blacks by some in his grassroots. He says nothing. I do not want a leader who ignores things right under his nose.

Besides. See how nasty his side is to me? I fight against that pile on bullshit. I'd rather have hillary call out a thousand dog whistles than to have thousands and thousands of folks harassing black folks all over the place. Until his side understands what they did or what they sat there and let happen instead of focusing on hillary circa 2008 nothing will change. What happen this Summer was a THOUSAND times worse and we do not care if Bernie did not do it himself, he allowed it to happen and said nothing. Just like I didn't care that it was not Hillary but Ferrraro.

[JonLeibowitz]

200. It is unrealistic to expect a candidate with tens of millions of supporters to rein all of them in.

i am truly sorry for what happened, to you, that is messed up and should happen to absolutely nobody (well, maybe hitler). I hope everything is well in the end.

[bravenak]

201. It ain't me that I worry about. The hundreds of reported cases of others piss me off.

He has been asked and refused to discuss it. I want issues addressed not to be told nothing can be done. If he cannot even say boo about it, how can he run this nation? Failure of leadership. When the troop fail to operate properly, I blame the Captain or the General. There are no rules. He made no rules at all.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

244. I agree with you, but again, black voters are acting STRATEGICALLY and RATIONALLY.

By that, I mean, it's about who is most likely to beat the Republicans. I can't speak for ALL blacks, but I think what's happening here and that many black voters who support Hillary Clinton are supporting her--not because they necessarily like her--but because she will beat the Republicans. Again, this behavior is rational and strategic, and regardless of what Sanders' supporters think or how much they don't understand why black people are supporting Hillary Clinton, the end result is beating the Republicans. It is logical and does make sense.

I live in Maryland. Hillary Clinton will win easily here; therefore, I plan to support someone else on the ticket. I cannot bring myself to vote for Hillary Clinton.

However, if I still lived in Georgia, I would act STRATEGICALLY and vote for Hillary Clinton because it would matter there.

Black voters are NOT dumb. We are thoughtful and very rational voters. And if this is about supporting a candidate who will beat the Republican, I understand fully why it is important to support Hillary. I may not like it. Hell, I hate it. But I understand.

[whatchamacallit]

248. Thanks

That's one of the best takes on the issue I've read. I don't believe any Bernie supporters think AA voters are dumb. There is after all a growing number of them supporting Sanders. The assuption, wrong or right, is that Bernie's disconnect (and Hillary's popularity) with the larger community is more a function of familiarity than anything else. If what you're saying is indeed the case, and AA Hillary support is a strategic decision, the familiarity theory is wrong. I'd like to add, while it could be said Bernie Supporters are "dreamers", most of us actually believe he has the best chance of beating the republicans. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Liberal_Stalwart71.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

162. Hi bravenak. All due respect, I remember and will NEVER forgive or forget. The Clintons showed me

who they are, and I just cannot support these people.

[bravenak]

163. Look downthread. I said I never forgive. I'm mean.

But since her enemies decided to try to go to war with me, that's what they get.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

180. Except you've also decided to 'go to war' with a lot of us who are her enemies but not yours.

There's more collateral damage resulting from your attacks than there are hits on the people who ever actually attacked you or any black person.

It's a lot like the US whacking entire wedding crowds with drones in trying to attack a single person they're not even sure is a terrorist, but who visited a couple of places where terrorists were thought to be.

[bravenak]

185. I do not see it that way.

I see it like this. To all those who sat around and watched, did nothing, piled on, and now pretend nothing happened? I am talking about them. Those that did the right thing? They feel no guilt and need not think anything I write is directed at them. Most either piled on or did nothing. My job is not to make shit easy for people to act like that and pretend it was okay. Next time, I wanna see people immediately put a stop to that crap and weed out the bad actors instead of supporting them and egging them on or ignoring them.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

187. I don't think anything you're writing is directed at me. But it IS directed at trying to burn down

Bernie's chances of getting elected for something he didn't do, because you somehow think he should be 'controlling' everyone who says they're a supporter of his. And you're supporting Clinton, who, at her latest rally that you thought she handled so well, had protesters tweeting out that her supporters called them the 'n word', that her SS detail threatened to 'body slam' one of them if he didn't leave quietly. Clinton doesn't seem to be 'controlling' her supporters either, but since they haven't turned on you personally, or (yet) started harassing other black people online, she isn't held to the same standards you hold Bernie.

[bravenak]

188. Her supporters are not doing it.

If they were I'd give them my full attention.
But I think he should speak up. Anybody that pays even a bit of attention to black media knows this is talked about constantly. His fans. If he is such a leader, why can't he simply set down sone ground rules?
Him ignoring it while talmbout he cares irritates me.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

189. Not now, not while they've got the polls on their side.

They don't want to lose votes. But if they start seeing that support evaporate, I'm guessing they're going to turn a lot less polite and a lot more hostile.

[bravenak]

192. Alot of her supporters ARE the BLACK ones.

We have been discussing this since this summer. His numbers are not moving because we are still discussing it. It won't go away until addressed. It will never be addressed.

I see no intelligence in the running of this campaign by his staff. His advisors are not advising him well. They are trying to use quick gimmicks to get the black vote and then blasting it at AAs non stop crowing about how Bernie is the best for us.

Still trying to educate us.

Really. I do not know if they know how condescending and patronizing they are. Like tgey swear all we need is a white dude from vermont to fix things and give us welfare. Constantly insulting us and not even knowing or caring. Even if we say, that's insulting! They continue to 'educate' us against our will. ( One even today told me I am "running off black folks" and I told her to "prove it." Who shows up? Her mixed friend to let me know. The same mixed friend who sent me pms with her email address, which gives up her website with her blonde blue eyed white self, on du pretending to be blacker than me, just to win an argument. Very deceptive and insulting. ) They are just doing anything to win the black vote, anything besides actually be nice to black folks. Can't do that.

I am not the reason he is losing. THAT is the reason. If black voters are meeting THESE PEOPLE??? No wonder.

If the Bernie camp cannot handle one black lady in Alaska between the thousands of them, I dunno what to say yo. I am BARELY TRYING.

[riderinthestorm]

195. You are full of shit. Full stop lies

You are unhinged. You've stalked me in real life without any basis in reality. I have no "website". Any pictures you've decided are me, are not me from some random Google search. I have no online presence - zero. You've stalked me in real life. Creepy.

I'm stunned you are perpetuating this. On DU2, my posts about my heritage (and my pictures) are clear in the geneaology forum. Dawn Turner, an enormously respected AA columnist with the Chicago Tribune told my story. I've been fully upfront about my bi-racial story.

Your PMs to me are deranged. You alert stalked me as is evident by my post history and hide (by you).

Are you drunk??

Seriously. I know this is hide worthy but I'll risk it. I have no other explanation for your bizarre behavior. Stop. Please. Just stop.

When this is juried, please note jurors, bravenak is stalking me in real time. She's assigned a fictional persona to me and is working that on DU. I don't deserve this for crossing her. Thanks in advance.

[polly7]

252. I've been stalked in real life ..... it's horrible, keep track of everything.

I was naive and didn't realize how bad it could get.

It's sick.

[retrowire]

236. holy shit n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

243. I agree 100%! The problem with Bernie's campaign is not necessarily his supporters, which

many of them have been absolutely horrible when it comes to black people. The problem has been and continues to be HIS CAMPAIGN'S RESPONSE to what black people are trying to educate him on when it comes to our issues. That he refuses to change course is not our problem. And frankly, I know plenty of black folks who may not necessarily like Hillary Clinton but who will vote for her because Bernie Sanders is not listening. More important, they are convinced that Hillary has the best chance to beat the Republicans. That is RATIONAL thinking, unlike many white people who try and tell black people how to think and vote. Black voters have always been RATIONAL voters. I may not like it because I can't stand the Clintons. But Bernie's campaign has disappointed me and many blacks that I know. We may like him better than the Clintons, but many are not supporting his campaign because he's just not articulating the issues that are important to us--it's NOT class or economic equality that is driving the debate; it's RACE! Period. End of story. And this is something that Bernie and many of his supporters REFUSE to admit. Ignoring the central importance of race over class is what will do his campaign in.

You and I both know that without black voters, no Democrat can win. This proves it.

[bravenak]

249. That is exactly why I decided what I did.

It was not for the love I bear for Hillary. I bear mostly skepticism. I do not think Bernie is running to win. He just wants to spread his message, which is FINE by me. I vote to keep republicans from doing more damage.

[JI7]

57. you can tell the fake concern when they keep bringing up

that campaign and in that case it was still targeted towards the candidate. But are just fine with what has been going on with blm. And continuing attacks on black people.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. Like hounding them on the internet, peering into their religious affiliations...

Like hounding them on the internet, peering into their religious affiliations, and scouring their sexual history?

[JI7]

65. So it's even worse than i thought

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. That is what occurred...

eom

[luvspeas]

88. Or sending threatening letters to their homes...

Let's not forget that one. An oldie but a goodie

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. Some of them have said she made it up. (REDUX)

The calumnies never stop.

[luvspeas]

97. Victim shaming...abhorrent.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

112. I was one of the first people she shared it with...

She is in Alaska. The postmark was from Tampa. If it was a hoax the amount of planning it would have taken is mind boggling and would betray an evil mind. That makes the accusation infinitely worse...

[whatchamacallit]

68. Nothing done by Bernie's campaign will ever approach this disturbing crap

Glad to see you're down with Hillary's dog whistles and exploitation.

[JI7]

70. I'm not talking about bernies campaign

And I'm voting for sanders. I'm disgusting by those who hide behind him and use him to justify their attacks on others.

[whatchamacallit]

73. It's simple

If as you claim, consistent respect for PoC is an important issue for you, I'd say you've got the wrong candidate.

[JI7]

86. i am a poc and I'm voting for sanders

But there are some who are using him to hide behind with their bigoted attacks.

As a poc I'm disgusted by those who lecture minorities on what is best for them. As if they give a shit.

Majority of poc support clinton and there is good reason for it.

But it has brought out some ugly racism in some who hate her.

[luvspeas]

90. Well said

nuthin wrong with bernie imho

[whatchamacallit]

92. 2 things

There's no reason for bigots to support Sanders. They share no ideology and have nothing to gain by supporting him.

What are the good reasons for PoC supporting Clinton?

[JI7]

100. she listens and treats them as equals unlike the way you speak of them

[whatchamacallit]

103. Reread the OP and say that with a straight face

Also, that's a pretty shitty claim about me. Wanna back it up?

[JI7]

110. yes ,when you say things like you ate voting for sanders because it's best fro black people

While dismissing the things they themselves have been saying.

[whatchamacallit]

121. Um... didn't you just tell me you are voting for Sanders?

I obviously didn't dismiss your choice. Understand this, I'm just as baffled about whites supporting Clinton. I think it goes against their best interest too. As much as you want to make my opinion a race thing, it's not.

[JI7]

130. you keep going after poc.yet most white people vote republican

[bravenak]

135. Easier to vote bother us. Some think they need to educate us on what is best for us constantly.

[whatchamacallit]

137. Bullshit

You really should be more responsible with such claims. I don't know anyone's ethnicity unless they tell me. You happened to tell me halfway through our exchange. If daring to disagree with you is 'going after you', I don't know what to say. The vast majority of my debates are with white people. Maybe I'm victimizing them too.

[JI7]

139. I'm talkIng about the things you posted

Complaints about minorities for hillary .

[whatchamacallit]

141. Show us

[JI7]

142. it's in this thread itself

[whatchamacallit]

145. I see

Last edited Wed Nov 4, 2015, 01:53 PM - Edit history (1)

so, I shouldn't have an opinion on Hillary's racist dog whistles, if some DUer who self-identifies as black is cool with what she did. I got it.

[JI7]

146. keep showing you don't care

With those type of responses

[whatchamacallit]

147. And you, whoever you are,

keep playing your divisive game.

[jwirr]

143. I think there is a difference when you say most white people

vote R and when you say most R voters are white.

The first is not true and the last is.

[JI7]

144. the first is true also. Most white people do vote republican

[jwirr]

148. Not where I live MN.

[JI7]

149. yes there corps be difference if you break it down like that

but I'm referring to the entire country.

[jfern]

69. What fake concern?

I supported Obama, and I thought the dog whistles against him were disgusting.

[JI7]

71. I'm talking about the attacks on bravenak

[DemocratSinceBirth]

91. Some of them have said she made it up.

The calumnies never stop.

[840high]

171. Who knows if she did or not.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

172. Why doesn't your response surprise me?

EOM

[840high]

174. I don't know. You want me to lie?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

175. Frankly, I couldn't care less...

We already established who you are.

[bravenak]

177. Eh, who cares?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

178. He or she is insistent on calling you a liar...

I respect the hell out of how you can respond to these calumnies with equanimity.


Knowing you and ISBM, GenXer, and Number 23 has made me a better person.

[bravenak]

179. I try to ignore silly stuff like that. Some do it for attention.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

182. Your reserve impresses me more and more.

You are a queen.

[bravenak]

123. They crack me up

[onehandle]

18. Reposting your thread that got hidden last week?

True desperation.

Won't make a difference.

[font size="5"]#45[/font]

[img][/img]

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Former Congressional Black Caucus Chairwoman, Marcia Fudge, Endorses Hillary Clinton

"We are at a point in our nation’s history when the right leadership is needed more than ever,” said a statement from Fudge. “Hillary has spent her life advocating for poor and working class families.

“Hillary will help build an economy for tomorrow and beyond; strengthen America’s families; defend our country and its core values; and revitalize our democracy. In other words, she gets it. Hillary understands the issues that matter to people in my district and around the country, like income equality, women’s rights and universal voter registration. Hillary is the best candidate for the job.”

-Marcia Fudge

[berni_mccoy]

23. Congrats to her.

[aspirant]

22. alert

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Mon Nov 2, 2015, 03:41 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Clinton used race as a campaign tactic in 2008 - she's doing worse now
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251758204

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Reposted this OP over again, even though it was hidden by a jury. Please hide this divisive OP. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251740849

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Nov 2, 2015, 03:50 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Obnoxious but not over the top.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is a well-linked OP. It would be better to debate it than hide it.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I could go either way on this one (in the context of all the other divisive crap in GD) but given it's already been hidden once, I'll take it as precedent. Not cool to re-post. It's thumbing your nose at the rules we live with on this board and maybe MIRT should have a little conference on this one.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: These are all things the Clinton campaign actually did, so why would a this get alerted?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[onehandle]

27. So it was alerted on again?

Figures.

[whatchamacallit]

43. Can't believe someone invoked MIRT

Den of deceit.

[frylock]

80. Yes, because it's the only method they have to shut down discussion.

[SoapBox]

83. Yup.

But that is what is going on...multiple attempts to silence the opposition...but thank goodness it's not working.

And yes...all of this is fact and has been well documented.

[jfern]

152. Disgusting how people want to silence talk of Hillary's dog whistles

Shame on the alerter for trying to prevent people from learning or being reminded of how ugly the Hillary campaign can go.

[restorefreedom]

26. i have always thought his "sacrifice" was a big mistake

he should have gone with a different sos. not because she was poorly qualified, but because the position of sos should not be a consolation prize, esp to someone who had waged such an ugly campaign. thankfully party identity in politics is dying an appropriate death, and this "for the good of the party" stuff will not matter in another generation, tops.

[nc4bo]

36. There's a reason why it's called a dog whistle. nt

[HassleCat]

39. I quit reading at this

"...gun pointed at his head..." No. Not even close. This accusation is similar to Clinton's "shouting" accusation against Sanders.

[berni_mccoy]

41. I know it's hard to stomach, and I probably should have put "GRAPHIC" in the title...

However, this was reported on by numerous news agencies. The campaign was caught red-handed, purposely orienting the gun barrel at his head. They could have left the image in it's natural orientation and had Obama's head by the stock, but they didn't do that.

[HassleCat]

48. That's true

It appears to be a reversed image. The rifle appears to be a left handed model with a double trigger, which would be extremely rare. I'm sure they have an explanation for reversing the photo, but I'm not sure I would buy it. On the other hand, why would they want to make Obama look threatened by the rifle? Isn't the point of the whole thing to imply that Obama is friends with the gun? Either way, I didn't like the implication that they pointed a gun at him, since it is clearly not pointed at him.

[berni_mccoy]

53. The reason why is called a dog whistle in political terms

Most people won't see it but gun nuts and white racists would. This particular mailer was targeting rural areas, to outwardly question his inconsistent stance on guns, but to quietly applying a fear tactic.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

150. Then he should have put that last, I guess, because everything else in there is more damning, and

definitely true. Too bad you chose one tiny piece of the article to decide to ignore the rest.

[riderinthestorm]

40. The more HRC supporters swarm a thread, the closer it hits home

By this new standard, you've hit on a real truth Berni McCoy.

They're out early and furious on this thread.

Interesting. Alerted on too. Wow!

[CharlotteVale]

95. +1 Hillary's ugly record can't be hidden either.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I am proud to stand with Mayor Michael Nutter and Hillary Clinton

“When Hillary Clinton becomes President, Philadelphians will wake up every day knowing they have someone who will fight for their priorities in the White House.I'm proud to support Hillary Clinton's candidacy, and will be working through Election Day to support her agenda that will help Philadelphians get ahead and stay ahead.”

[berni_mccoy]

46. You do realize that you are just kicking a thread you'd prefer to hide

By posting every endorsement from a black caucus member in this thread, doesn't undo how Clinton rand her campaign in 2008 or how she's running her 2016 campaign. It just keeps the information up there. Thanks, I appreciate it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. Why would I prefer to hide it?

You do realize that you are just kicking a thread you'd prefer to hide . By posting every endorsement from a black caucus member in this thread, doesn't undo how Clinton rand her campaign in 2008 or how she's running her 2016 campaign. It just keeps the information up there. Thanks, I appreciate it.

Why would I prefer to hide it?

"Cookie and I are thrilled that @HillaryClinton announced today that she will be running for President!" "I feel @HillaryClinton will be a great President for the American people and she will make sure that everyone has a voice!"

Earvin "Magic" Johnson

-Earvin "Magic" Johnson
Five time NBA Champion
Three Time NBA Final MVP
Three Time NBA Most Valuable Player

[berni_mccoy]

55. Based on comments you've made before...

I get the impression you wish this thread would be hidden.

But please, feel free to keep responding.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. I do not appreciate your tactics...

I do not appreciate your tactics but in light of the person you are your tactics makes perfect sense.

[berni_mccoy]

74. My tactics are much more transparent than Clintons.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

79. I can't argue with that. There is no dispute about your tactics.

eom

[JI7]

60. why would hillary supporters want to hide things that make Hillary look good

And those who attack her look bad ?

[jfern]

62. If this makes Hillary look good

I'd hate to see things that make her look bad

[loyalsister]

59. Hillary Clinton is not a bigot

But she has proven herself to be comfortable with dog whistle politics when she tried to benefit from the structural racism in 2008.

She, does not oppose the death penalty, which is one of the most glaring manifestations of structural racism.

Most telling to me is her refusal to say Black Lives Matter on the debate stage.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

184. Sounds like proving a negative.

I can see how you can, if there is proof, show that someone IS a bigot, but I'm not sure how you prove that someone isn't.

Especially when they've got a long history of supporting things that have harmed black people AND have employed racist dogwhistles in their quest for power.

Seems like those, and the things you mention, would tilt the scale towards suggesting she is a bigot rather than not.

[loyalsister]

194. That's a fair point

I was thinking of bigot in terms of stated personal opinions and directly confrontational behaviors. I think if she were a person who is an obvious and active bigot in that sense, 2008 would not have been close.

On the other hand, it is true that it's difficult to argue that a person who actively tries to benefit from bigotry and structural racism does not hold at least some bigoted attitudes.

With that in mind, maybe a more precise description of her contradictory personal interactions and policy positions would be a "hypocrite who defends white supremacy."

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

209. Well, if you want the return 'fair point', or the Devil's Advocate one or whatever

She very well might not be a bigot, simply willing to do anything for power, to place the Clinton bloodline firmly in that 0.001%. She's smart, she can see the world is going to Hell quickly, maybe she doesn't see any way out, and thinks only the richest and most powerful people have any shot at all of surviving somehow, and wants to try and save her daughter, her grandkid. Which makes her ruthless, but following a human instinct that's been around as long as there have been humans.

[loyalsister]

226. I think we're on the same page

I see that ruthlessness in her hawkish language and a policy leanings.

It creeped me out when she said she was proud to have "the Iranians" as her personal enemy. It sounded paranoid and self centered, and disgustingly Islamophobic.

Your Darwinian analysis reminds me of the fact that Obama has siblings living in other parts of the world. He spent a lot of time getting to know them and other family members in Kenya. I think having such a personal connections outside of one's own country could easily carry a lot of meaning for a world leader. I bet we will have an opportunity to read about it someday.

From what I understand Bernie and O'Malley both have relatively recent immigration stories. Bernie, no doubt has a rare connection to other parts of the world.
From what I have read, O'Malley wears his Irish loud and proud. I bet both of their understandings of persecution are very different from us white folks whose families arrived here in the 17th or less centuries.

I agree that it is smart and natural that protection of one's lineage would be more locally focused for someone who has less awareness of heritage outside the US. It doesn't mean we have to support and implicitly endorse it, though.

[PatrickforO]

259. Interesting. I guess the death penalty the way its being done now is racist.

I am a 'hang 'em high' kind of guy for people that get caught doing mass shootings like that asshole in the Aurora theater. But his jury refused to impose death on him. Could it have been because he's white? And that asshole Charlie Manson is still alive. He sure as hell is white.

But I hear about black people getting executed all the time.

That does suck. Might have to rethink my position and go against it all the way.

[loyalsister]

261. Squeaky Fromme and John Hinkley Jr. are still alive

Hell, Squeaky Fromme is out of prison. The inherent inequality is enough for me. We're told it's juries, but in the end, money and biases determine whether someone gets convicted or gets the death penalty.

[SoapBox]

75. Ouch.

But those that are blinded by (well, I'm not sure what it is specifically that blinds them to the true Mrs. Clinton) their alliance to her...will ignore all of this.

She knows dirty politicking and we've just barely seen the beginning.

Don't forget that 3AM Phone Call.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. Who is John Williams ?

Others have pointed out that John Williams supports her. Of course he does, because she supports firming up the Voting Rights Act. Why would she do all of the above? Does it matter since she actually did that in 2008? And besides she supports the Voting Rights Act when it means she's getting the black vote and the GOP really has no chance of getting it. Many of her supporters have pointed out that Bernie has no chance at winning the black vote and that Hillary "owns" it. Let's be clear: if she takes it for granted like she did in 2008, she's not going to win, even if Bernie is an old white man. She assumes she has the black vote, but I, and many many others, have not forgotten what she has done in the past.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1251&pid=758204

This reminds me of the other race thread where the poster confused Sister Souljah with Queen Latifah and still hasn't spelled their names right...

Good gawd, if you are going to lecture folks it behooves to get your facts straight.

[Starry Messenger]

82. Good catch.

I wasn't aware the composer of the Star Wars soundtrack was a civil rights leader. Oops.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. Not as bad as confusing Queen Latifah with Sister Souljah.

Starry Messenger, where do they find these people?

[Starry Messenger]

115. I think these ladies are asking that too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

122. It's not like Queen Latifah and Sister Souljah look remotely alike.

I would make an inference how one could make such a mistake but a sense of charity prevents me from doing so.

[Starry Messenger]

133. You're a gent, DSB.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

140. Thank you. I will strive to live up to that appellation.

But I can not imagine the lens through which one views the world to think Queen Latifah and Sister Souljah look alike. It would be like mixing up Madonna and Lady Gaga because they are both blonde.

[berni_mccoy]

84. Thanks for the correction...

I fixed a couple of other typos. Much appreciated. And if you are just noticing that now, after how many responses you've made in this thread, you must have missed it yourself the first time too. Again, many thanks for pointing that out. I appreciate it. Really I do. It also shows me that you are thoughtfully iterating on everything I wrote. That means a lot to me.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

96. I didn't read the whole thing... The error was so glaring it jumped off the page.

John Williams, really !!!

[berni_mccoy]

153. Huh, that's interesting, because you claimed to read the whole thing

in response to my refutation of your first response....

Strange.

[AzDar]

85. So dirty. Again... I don't know why ANYONE supports her.

[luvspeas]

99. Who?

What are we really talking about here?

[Thinkingabout]

102. Since the POC is heavily supporting Hillary Clinton and post by some supporting another candidate

Falsely accused Clinton supporters of starting the racists post, I wish the false stories to find their way back to the underground from where they came.

After this there was the two BLM confrontations and again blame went out Hillary campaign set this up. When does crap like this stop. All of the evil attacks on members here who at the time was actually a Sanders supporter, the end result is Sanders lost supporters.

[berni_mccoy]

111. How is the OP an attack on Clinton Supporters?

[Thinkingabout]

127. It wasn't this op, there were many after NN and Seattle, even to the point US mail sent,

Went way over the top. AA members was stalked, was nasty for a while.

[berni_mccoy]

154. Well, I missed that. If that is so,... you would agree

That Clinton and her supporters aren't doing much better in that regard.

[Aerows]

106. SCDS

Same campaign, different season. She lost handily before.

[zentrum]

119. I'll never forget

…..her "as far as I know" comment. Appalling.

[George II]

125. Didn't you post the same thing in this same forum about a week ago and it was hidden?

[Aerows]

126. At the "other site"

They ginned up some good old fashioned anti-Semitic "not loyal to the US" stuff.

I am not EVEN going to bother rehashing that screenshot, because we all saw it then, and it is there to be reviewed now - I find it too ugly to repost.

Fine people those Hillary Clinton supporters are turning out to be.

[Babel_17]

128. 2008 had some brutal primaries

IIRC, Secretary Clinton really wanted to do well in Pennsylvania, hence she wasn't shy about about stating her support of good Americans having their rifles. President Obama, not being asleep, tried to make her pay a price for going after those Pennsylvania voters.

And President Obama survived the Darwinian killing field of Illinois politics. Shrugging of Secretary Clinton having used sharp elbows against him wasn't likely to have required any great effort. He's no stranger to Chicago rules.

The Clinton campaign has made the tactical decision to take up it a notch, in regards negativity towards Sanders. It's fair for commentators to highlight the downside of that. The Clintons play by Arkansas rules.

[marym625]

129. K&R

Truth

[silvershadow]

134. Yes I remember Bill on TV, fending off a stroke. nt

[Unknown Beatle]

151. I've thought it was because of this.

Obama and Hillary are on the same page politically so he picker her for SOS. They're both owned by Wall St. and monied interests. They both want the status quo to remain in place.

The difference is this, Obama expanded bush's war powers but sought a peaceful resolution with Iran and succeeded, whereas Hillary would have sought to further expand war powers and would have invaded Iran rather than seek peace.

[merrily]

155. I appreciate all the work you have put into this post.

[GitRDun]

156. The problem with these kind of posts is they lose the big picture

Let's look at the broad charge of using race as a campaign tactic.

The implication is that Hillary is either a closet racist (you say your not saying this, but some, I guess would leave it on the table) or some kind of nefarious person who'll use racist tactics to achieve power and authority.

The evidence?
1). Some idiot with a marketing degree developed a dumb add on guns where a picture of Obama's head is overlayed on top of the gun barrel (It's clearly not pointing at him as you claim).
2). Geraldine Ferraro said something insensitive and resigned because of it.
3). HRC said Obama is not a Muslim as far as she knows.
4). A poster named Troutnut claimed the Clinton campaign darkened Obama's face in an add. The Clinton campaign denied the charge. No MSM kerfuffle.
5). A women's group made a mistake on some robo-calls, apologized profusely for it, saying they were doing such high volume they didn't recognize the dates would cause voter confusion in advance. There is a claim of the calls going to black neighborhoods, but no proof of targeting is in the links.

When you take away all the pretty pictures and links, read these 5 points, you have nothing...but here's something:

1). President Barack Obama thought enough of HRC to make her Secretary of State. Trusted her enough that she was involved in getting bin Laden, starting Iran nuclear talks, etc.
2). John Lewis, a civil rights icon and a force for fairness in Congress is a big HRC supporter.
3). POC are supporting Hillary's candidacy over BS in huge numbers.

I don't know whether I should be offended or just laugh.

These petty gaffes / charges have no weight compared to the President's judgement...and the collective judgement of POC. Are you saying they are fools or just ill informed?

Look, I get it. It's disappointing Bernie has yet to develop a broader appeal...but it's his actions that are responsible, not Hillary's. He's got an unbelievable record as mayor of Burlington, VT and no one talks about it...that's his fault. Some of the things he did were cutting edge. His people went on to run that town in a Republican area for 28 of 30 years after he left....that's impressive.

His continued tin ear moves on race (BLM, Cornell West endorsement, etc.) and attacking the President by saying Bernie would have been more successful with the Republican Congress killed his appeal far more than any snippet from the Hillary campaign.

Lastly, Bernie is no sexist or racist either. Those charges are dumb too.

I would ask that all of you Sanders folks please stop posting these sour grapes OP's. They have no redeeming value and don't help Sanders win votes.

[berni_mccoy]

158. The problem with your response...

is that it's not in touch with reality.

Furthermore, you counter facts with opinion. Anyone who was here and present during 2008 knows what I posted is the truth.

If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe these people:

The Progressive: "Clinton's ran a racist campaign"
http://progressive.org/news/2008/01/5995/obama-trounces-clintons’-racist-entitled-sc-campaign

Professor Vernellia Randall of the University of Dayton: "The Malicious Political Tactics of the Clinton Campaign"
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/2008electionandracism/Clinton/clinton04.htm

And if you will remember, Mark FUCKING Penn's own emails:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/09/the-front-runner-s-fall/306944/

Contest the black vote at every opportunity. Keep him pinned down there.

[GitRDun]

159. Not in touch with YOUR reality

You Sanders folks arrogantly press on with this racist meme despite the fact that communities of color, and big time politicians that represent those communities embrace Hillary over Bernie in large numbers. THESE ARE FACTS! NOT OPINION! Maybe it would help if I did a Bernie bouncy here...

I have some huge issues with HRC as a candidate, but this racist crap you all keep pushing out is a slap in the face of the votes you need to have a broader appeal for Bernie....

Who are you to tell POC Hillary is a racist?

You don't think they can judge for themselves?

You are on a damned fools errand here...I'd stop digging.

[berni_mccoy]

160. Hmmm

Clinton had similar support this time in the 2008 campaign as well...

And she blew it.

And I'm not here to claim she is or is not a racist. I'm simply pointing out the tactics she used then and now as well as her misguided stances on the issue of social justice.

And if you think she'll maintain that kind of support, you are sadly out of touch with *any* reality.

If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe this person:

http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2015/04/12/hillary-clinton-good-for-white-feminism/

Despite trumpeting her work on behalf of “mothers and children,” she and her husband worked to reduce federal assistance to women and children living in poverty. In her book, Living History, Clinton touts her role: “By the time Bill and I left the White House, welfare rolls had dropped 60 percent.” This 60% drop was not due to a 60% decrease in poverty. Instead, it was a reduction in federal benefits to those living in poverty, many of them working poor, like those employed at Wal-Mart.

Clinton sat on the board of Wal-Mart between 1986 and 1992, where she says she learned a lot from Sam Walton, and she remained silent while the corporation fought the unionization of its workers.

In Michelle Alexander’s book, The New Jim Crow, she notes that it was Hillary Clinton who lobbied Congress to expand the drug war and mass incarceration in ways that we continue to live with today, and that have a significantly more harmful impact on black and brown people than white people. According to The Drug Policy Alliance, people of color are much more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, convicted, harshly sentenced and saddled with a lifelong criminal record due to being unfairly targeted for drug law violations. Even though white people and people of color use drugs at about the same rates, it is black and brown people’s bodies that continue to fuel the machine of mass incarceration.

As Secretary of State, Clinton left a legacy that included both a hawkish inclination to recommend the use of military force coupled with “turning the state department into a machine for promoting U.S. business.” This does not bode well for black and brown people in other parts of the world, since the US is not likely to attack Western Europe under a (second) Clinton presidency, but some region of the world with people who do not have light-colored skin tones.

[GitRDun]

166. Please proceed berni

The arrogance that some how you know better than millions of POC, the latest 50 AA mayors who just endorsed Hillary, and the numerous other community leaders is just stunning.

It's hard to believe that in the face of the stark reality that those you see as "victims" of the Clinton racist plot don't see it at all.

There are plenty of reasons to not like HRC as a candidate...race politics isn't one of them. Wake up and smell the coffee dude.

[jfern]

167. The OP isn't even complete

No mention of Hillary's "hard working white" people comment or Bill's comment about how people like Obama would have used to carry his bags.

[GitRDun]

168. lol yeah

I just wish they would stop this crap and keep telling the positives of Bernie. He's not perfect but has some good traits and history...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

245. Over the years, I've posted this and many other things that happened in 2008. But people act as

though these events DIDN'T take place. Baffling!

[Uncle Joe]

157. An excellent OP.

Thanks for the thread, berni_mccoy.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

161. Well I AM calling the Clintons racists because THEY ARE! The 2008 campaign was absolutely despicable

When I bring up the facts in the OP, sadly some of my fellow black brothers and sisters dismiss them. It's like they don't even care how disgusting the Clintons (AND THEIR SURROGATES and FOLLOWERS) were during that campaign.

[840high]

173. Yes. Thank you.

[bravenak]

183. What I saw this Summer was even more disgusting.

Once I got stupid letters to my home I was knowing that something was wrong. Nobody has clean hands in this campaign season. Very hard for me to dismiss 08, but I damn sure ain't jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

[Cha]

214. Thank you, brave.. they can dwell on 2008.. I was pissed too. But, so much good has happened

since then.. you won't find me stuck in a time warp.

And, as you so eloquently put it.. "but I damn sure ain't jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire."

They conveniently forget the abuse #BlackLivesMatter took from BS supporters and are still taking in some situations.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

186. Sadly, some folks are willing to give excuses for supporting racism as long as they feel it 'hurts'

someone else who is their 'enemy'. Human beings are often more emotional and illogical than they are rational.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

246. See, that's where you're wrong. It's not illogical if we're talking ONLY of politics...

...and who's more likely to win. You Bernie supporters will lose this argument again and again.

Yes, I am upset that many black voters are supporting Hillary because of how she, her husband and their surrogates behaved in 2008.

HOWEVER...

After give this issue a lot of thought, I reasoned that it is very logical and pretty reasonable to accept the support for Hillary Clinton when given the alternative--the Republicans win.

As much as I can't stand the Clintons--and I absolutely hate them!--I do understand that black voters are behaving rationally here. In fact, we always have!

Bernie supporters' assault on BLM doesn't earn him points. Fair or unfair, people behave strategically when they weigh alternatives.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

247. I don't think 'the alternative, Republicans win' is rational.

And maybe that's the real split. Many of those of us who support Bernie believe that Clinton will lose in a general. That she has too much baggage, will draw out too many Republicans to vote against her, while depressing potential new voters that Bernie excites. And that Bernie has crossover appeal with people nominally on 'the right', where Clinton has none.

So that's where we see 'irrationality'. In the notion that Clinton, if given the nomination, will win the general. We see the nomination of Clinton as handing the general directly over to Republicans.

And I do not 'assault' BLM. I was irritated with several specific protest tactic choices, and would have been just as irritated if gun control protesters, for instance, had done the same thing. But I never 'attacked' anyone over that irritation, and see the legitimate needs of BLM as being separate from the Presidential campaigns, even as they interact.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

250. Well, I respect your opinion. But many people believe that Bernie is unelectable.

Therefore, their voting behavior is strategic according to what THEY believe could be the outcome if they didn't act strategically.

[Thinkingabout]

181. I got it now, if the same subjects is brought up often enough and the issues will not discussed and

The same talking points will be the campaign and maybe the lack of a plan will not be known. Since Denmark has made a statement they are not the country represented as a desire for the US to be, where can we go from this point.

[Oilwellian]

199. I captured a lot of video clips during her racist campaign

There was a great deal of discussion about it at the time. I wish I had put dates on each clip as they played out during the campaign.

Great post, berni_mccoy.

[Truprogressive85]

207. OMG

Hillary and Bill Clinton entitlement were on full display during that election year
Seeing Bob Johnson the creator of BET making a fool of himself for Hillary Clinton makes want to vomit
and Geraldine Ferraro were so vile and disgusting

best thing ever to happen was Obama beating the Clinton Machine

[McCamy Taylor]

203. "Race memo" was released by the Obama campaign on eve of South Carolina.

The MSM all quoted from its talking points--even though the talking points were mostly bogus.

[Cha]

206. Uh Uh.. Obama and Hillary were bad bad bad.. and then this happened.

Obama: Making Hillary Clinton secretary of State one of my ‘best decisions’

Asking Hillary Clinton to serve as secretary of State was "one of the best decisions I ever made as president," President Obama told philanthropists and donors gathered Tuesday at the Clinton Global Initiative meeting in New York City.

The president showered the former first lady — and front-runner for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination — with praise, saying he "will always be grateful for her extraordinary leadership."

Obama went on to joke that he still had "a lot of debt to pay" because of the miles Clinton traveled when in his administration. But he also praised the former New York senator for her "post-administration glow."
"She looks much more rested," Obama said to laughter.

MOre~
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/218666-obama-making-hillary-clinton-secretary-of-state-one-of-my-best




Secretary of State Hillary Clinton leaves behind enormous 20-year legacy with exit from office following start of President Obama's second term

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/obama-new-term-hillary-clinton-leaves-20-year-political-legacy-article-1.1244485

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110724779

I admire Hillary so much for her answer to President Obama's call to service. They started working together for the good of the country and our Planet. Not stuck in the past like so many people who only want to go on and on about it.

Evidently they've remained good friends.. and I couldn't be happier.

Awesome Birthday Tweet from Hillary to President Obama!


To a dear friend, a great boss, and my second favorite president: Happy birthday @POTUS! -H Retweets 1,768Favorites 4,147
3:31 PM - 4 Aug 2015

DM M~ http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=14524

[nc4bo]

210. Or frienemies.

People act like human beings don't know how to put on a smiling mask for appearances sake.

I'm sure the same can be said of politicians.

Especially politicians.

Especially politicians who hold or could hold the leadership reins of the Democratic party.

Time has a way of telling just how tight these two REALLY are.

[Cha]

212. NO they're friends.. just because you want to think the worst.. for bernie. Doesn't make it so.

[nc4bo]

213. Whatevs

Cha, really.

Politicians are politicians.

[berni_mccoy]

228. Or, the real issue, Obama was trying to repair the damage Clinton did to the party... You remember

Don't you Cha? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6186699&mesg_id=6188982

[berni_mccoy]

211. Wow Cha, that supports exactly what I said, thanks

Obama was big enough to work with Hillary after that campaign for the sake of the party and the greater good of getting a progressive agenda through what was a relatively conservative congress even if both houses were Democratically controlled.

I bet if Hillary would have won, we probably would have seen the reverse too. Remember Skinner's post on two parties?

[eridani]

208. Summary of Clinton fan response

Telling a message board about racist dogwhistling in 2008 = Telling people of color how to vote.

[Cosmic Kitten]

229. Racism, Sexism, otherism what won't she stoop to?

[Catherina]

230. Remember it like it was yesterday. Very little has changed too.

Remember these blasts from the past? All the shit-stirring that if Obama won, African hut-dwellers would be a permanent fixture in the *White* House

Same tactics over again.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4992881


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5011571

[d_legendary1]

254. OMG! One of those posters is still active!

on both of those posts. Its gonna be a long election...

[demmiblue]

256. Wow... how very paternalistic. And low (though not surprising). n/t

[sabrina 1]

263. Wow!

[sabrina 1]

233. Excellent OP filled with facts. Bernie has the Status Quo scared to death!

[berni_mccoy]

251. After the forum tonight, I think Clinton may feel the urge

to try to resurface some of her 2008 campaign tactics lol.

[PatrickforO]

260. Yes he does!

Because the powers that be, I think, understand how many people like Bernie and will come out for him when the time comes. It's those 'invisible Americans' Clinton was talking about in 08, eh? But this time they feel the Bern!

[saidsimplesimon]

237. Rec'd for discussion value

Disclosure: I support Senator Sanders.

Imho, Mrs. Clinton's diet and exercise routine, or lack of same, should be fair game. I've noticed on many occasions dark circles under her eyes, and an energy level that see saws. We all watched President Obama age after 8 years in office. Will Mrs. Clinton's current lifestyle choices contribute to the stress and demands of the office she seeks?

On substance, the only issue that has not already been raised regarding Mrs. Clinton is how would she govern? As Secretary of State, she relied heavily on delegation to staff, imo. Who will she select as a VP Candidate?

Bernie needs a win in NH, let's make it happen.

[Bread and Circus]

255. I have come to realize that mo matter what Clinton.... all will be excused or ignored..

Sad but true.

[PatrickforO]

258. In 2008, I supported Obama and even volunteered to work on his campaign.

I can remember these same wedges being driven then, over and over and over and over by Clinton surrogates. Obama still won, and to me, based on the way she ran her campaign, played her advisors off against each other and waffled on every decision, I am NOT confident Clinton would be a great president or even a good one. And, what's more, I do not think she is particularly electable in the general election. People don't trust her. People don't like her.

It isn't really that that causes me to support Sanders. It is his stances on the issues. I like everything he's saying and in my opinion he's the next FDR, which I think is EXACTLY what this nation needs. A new, New Deal, not the same old shit.

[jack_krass]

262. OMFG not only did she darken his skin, but also made his head less oval too.

How anyone (white or black) can support her in light of these, and other (ie "hard working whites&quot demonstrations of her true character is beyond me. These things (as well as her and her husbands policy history) offer an insight into her thought processes, and give us an idea of what to expect when she's elected:
-support for crooks on Wall Street and banksters
-support for the prison industrial complex, and classroom to prison pipeline
-support for more war in the middle east and elsewhere
-support for more drug wars and racist and classist drug laws
-working happily with Republican in all the above

[berni_mccoy]

264. Kicking for a reminder to some DUers who've asked