Hillary Handled the Interruption by BLM VERY WELL!!!!

[bravenak]

I think that out of all of the candidates Hillary had the best response in real time to Black Lives Matter. I still stick to my opinion that O'malley had a great recovery and is still my number two choice based on many things, including meeting with activists immediately following his interruption. He is a class act. Hillary made us proud today!

[randys1]

1. She did good....Now, what would be funny is if a candidate would stand there and then

say in response: "Sure, but I am what really matters!"

Truth is refreshing once in a while...

But yes, she did good

[bravenak]

2. Hahahaha!!!

Yep. I would die laughing if somebody told the real truth!

[George II]

359. or........"Do you want me to leave", and then leave!!!

[bkkyosemite]

3. She also had time for her and her team to come up

with a good way to handle it as she was not the first one they did it too. It was a complete attack and surprise to Bernie when it happened to him. The attack on Bernie gave her a heads up that it could happen to her and for her to be able to plan in case.

[bravenak]

4. Well I am sure she heard of the harassment following Netroots and wanted to avoid that as well.

If he is so much better than her and never changes, why would he need a team and time to come up with a good response? All she did was agree and perhaps her body language said she was very receptive to the chanter's message.

[pnwmom]

142. And after Netroots he still wasn't prepared for a BLM "attack" at Seattle's Westlake Center. n/t

[bravenak]

152. He sure wasn't. At all. Flabbergasted.

[JaneyVee]

11. "An attack"

Most thin skinned campaign in history.

[NCTraveler]

20. In my opinion, they are protestors, not attackers.

They are the cause, not the enemy. Really not coming at you in any way. I just think the distinction isn't minor.

[msrizzo]

138. Bingo

They are protesters. No need to label them with violent adjectives.

[joshcryer]

37. There's no good way to handle actions like this.

You can't force people out, you look bad, if the crowd drowns them out immediately, you look bad, if you say something nasty to them, you look bad. You have to just go with the flow and let the protest end naturally.

[pnwmom]

141. You are forgetting something. Netroots was a surprise to Bernie (though some

might have predicted that from previous Netroots events.)

HOWEVER, it shouldn't have been a surprise when BLM people showed up in Seattle at his subsequent Westlake Center event. He had had time to prepare for a better response after Netroots; he just hadn't gotten yet how important it would be to do so.

[elleng]

5. I haven't seen hrc's response,

but I certainly agree that O'Malley recovered VERY well, ESPECIALLY his meeting with activists immediately following and then a great interview with Goldie Taylor. He IS a class act!

Here's his interview with Goldie Taylor after BLM: https://www.facebook.com/bluenationreview/videos/473565742825306/

[bravenak]

6. YES HE IS!!!!

I really like him so much. I know what the situation in Baltimore was. There were no easy fixes and there never will be. He had a difficult job and did it well.

[elleng]

7. HAPPY you think so, bravenak.

Just found his interview with Goldie Taylor, re: BLM: https://www.facebook.com/bluenationreview/videos/473565742825306/

[bravenak]

8. Thank you!!

[joshcryer]

99. Looks like she adopted O'Malley's cocaine sentencing approach.

[sheshe2]

9. KnR

[bravenak]

18. OMG HI!! Did you see that?

I think it was GOOD ENOUGH to pass the empathy test. Some people's response was NOT GOOD ENOUGH, but hopefully people will begin to understand why Hillary LISTENS.

(I am trying to use caps because I heard it was in style at DU to overuse capitals)

(and bouncies, they get used for any reason, sometimes I wonder if people did it on accident cause it rarely fits the op)

[sheshe2]

68. Ha!

Saw that

Yup...caps are the thing.

Love ya, bravenak!

[bravenak]

72. CAAAAAPPPS!

Love you too.

[sheshe2]

85. Hey you....

Go see my post in Grumble....I made it. I did it, I did.

[bravenak]

87. Ok. On my way!!!

[JaneyVee]

10. DID SHE STORM OFF AND CANCEL ALL MEETINGS?!!!

Like some other candidates?

[bravenak]

13. NO SHE DID NOT!!

She spoke of her plan to end racial profiling.

[bvf]

83. What plan is that?

[bravenak]

89. She will tell you when she is President!

[bvf]

102. Cute, but this is no way to handle one of the stupidest statements

out of Clinton's mouth since she began campaigning for anything.

You sure you want to remind people about this?

By all means, don't let me stop you. Nice job articulating her plan, too.

[bravenak]

103. Humor is good. Helps break the tension.

[bvf]

113. Here's something funny she said:

“Let’s remember that everyone in every community benefits when there is respect for the law, and when everyone in every community is respected by the law."

It's as if she was telling people to stop shouting, when in fact she's telling them to submit to police abuse in the interest of "community benefit," because--you know--she'll tell the cops, "Stop doing that."

Fucking hilarious.

[bravenak]

118. Here is something funny the crowd from SEATTLE, that PROGRESSIVE bastion of white liberalism said.

"TAZE THEM!!"
Lolololol!!!

[bvf]

162. Did Sanders say that?

Because I was quoting Clinton.

Here's another big problem with your post: Did the whole crowd say what you said? I assume that's what you're saying based on this:

Here is something funny the crowd from SEATTLE, that PROGRESSIVE bastion of white liberalism said...

A quick glance at what you've typed before posting would do you a lot of good.

[bravenak]

165. Not the whole crowd. Some yelled "ARREST THEM!"

Because nothing say liberal like calling for the arrest of black women protesting deaths in plice custody!!! Yay!

[bvf]

261. So was the whole crowd yelling something,

even if they were shouting different things?

You sure seem to want to say so. You also remember this wasn't an event for Sanders, right?

You obviously pay more attention to the words of those you believe to be Sanders supporters than to those of your own candidate. Your candidate really appreciates that, you can bet.

[bravenak]

262. He should have had security.

[bvf]

287. Do you know where you are?

Your response was apropos of nothing.

Don't forget: Hillary wants you to respect the law.

[bravenak]

301. So? Nothing wrong with respecting laws!

We want police to respect the same laws. I do not like crime.

Besides, a police officer was very kind to me during a traumatic incident recently.

[bvf]

305. The police too often don't. What does Hillary's plan call for in such cases?

"I do not like crime"?

Is this something you feel compelled to point out for some strange reason?

[bravenak]

308. People act like because I'm black I have to hate the police non stop.

They are humans, I respect them, I respect laws, and I like to point it out.

When my daughter went missing from school one a day when she had a substitute... The police came and got people MOVING. She was found within a half an hour after they showed up. I sent a letter to the department praising them.

I am not privy to all of Hillary's plans. You should google.

[bvf]

316. An interesting interpretation.

I had no idea anyone was expecting you to hate the police non-stop, at least in this exchange.

I'm just wondering why you can't expand on Hillary's plan to battle police brutality beyond--to paraphrase--"go look it up."

You would if you could. You'd like to stand proudly with her in spite of "crime-is-bad"-style rhetoric.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

347. It is presumptuous to presume a person hates the law because of his or her color.

The law is a teacher, for good or worse...The police just need to treat everybody the same, with respect. Nobody likes a lawbreaker and nobody likes a lawless cop.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

361. She implied she doesn't like crime because you implied that she does.

To a dispassionate observer such as myself it seem like a perfectly appropriate response.

[bvf]

390. I implied she liked crime?

Certainly you'll be happy to explain that steaming load.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

391. It is self evident.No need for me to elucidate.

[bvf]

413. Ah, in other words,

what you said was bullshit.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

417. As in other words what I said was empirically obvious

Ah, in other words, what you said was bullshit.

You do seem upset. As a liberal I have empathy for folks in distress. I would remind you that in Elisabeth Kubler Ross' Five Stages Of Grief, Anger is the first Stage. I will be here for you until you reach the final stage which is Acceptance.

[bvf]

421. Nice try.

But just more bullshit.

Hint: If you want to appear well read, it helps not to misspell authors' names, which only makes you look like an ignorant poser.

It's Kübler-Ross.

[Luminous Animal]

318. Oh that someone. who even knows if that person was a liberal?

It was an event to protect Social Security and Medicare. Issues that even teabaggers support.

[eridani]

342. But you are all for deaths on death row, 42% black. And so is Clinton n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

346. And so is President Obama, unfortunately

"While the evidence tells me that the death penalty does little to deter crime, I believe there are some crimes—mass murder, the rape and murder of a child—so heinous, so beyond the pale, that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment."

Page 35, 'Audacity of Hope'

Let's judge everybody by the same standards.


Thank you in advance.

[eridani]

414. Since Sanders and O'Malley are not, that bodes for a more hopeful future n/t

[bravenak]

449. I said we need to start at the beginning.

All white cops, prosecutors, juries, grand juries, defense attorneys. No chance at a fair trial. For any of us let alone death penalty cases. Wrk on that instead of trying to fix me.

[eridani]

450. Yes, we do. I am one of thousands who worked for legal MJ in WA State

--thus whacking a major part of the War on Some Drugs, which is a huge part of the new Jim Crow. Got a Democrat elected county sheriff that year too, who has actually canned a few cops with a record of racist violence. The city of Seattle is unfortunately lagging way behind the county, but with district elections we may get a more progressive council--that is, if the vast amounts of independent expenditures don't scuttle the effort.

[bravenak]

453. It needs to be redone completely.

Many men are dying in prison, defacto death penalty because they are black. If we sis not have blacks in America, the death penalty would be dead.

[emulatorloo]

164. "she's telling them to submit to police abuse"

I know many DU'ers love to shove words into other people's mouths and fabricate quotes with impunity, but that's fairly spectacular.

You should win a prize or something <sarcasm>.

[bvf]

232. How would you interpret her

use of the phrase "respect for the law"? Does she mean "only if the law respects you first"?

Probably not.

And show me where I fabricated a quote.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

364. As a fair and unbiased observer it is incumbent upon me to give this round to you.

As an aside I find the observation that a citizen should respect the law and the law should respect him or her controversial remarkable.

[BootinUp]

148. ROFL

[mcar]

12. It sounds like she did brave

I concede the point by another poster that she had time to develop a strategy, unlike Sanders and O'Malley. But that still puts HRC and O'Malley way ahead in their responses.

[bravenak]

14. Yep!

But I assume that her response would have been similar. I assumed months ago she woule be quick to affirm black lives matter.

[mcar]

16. I think so too

It's not a difficult thing to say, although most of them have fumbled the ball in the early stages of the movement. I give those who evolved credit.

[bravenak]

23. Oh yeah. They all had alot of growth.

I am pleased with the developments.

[GeorgeGist]

433. Her first response was ALL LIVEs MATTER. Remember?

Last edited Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:29 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/24/417112956/hillary-clintons-three-word-gaffe-all-lives-matter

[bravenak]

442. At least she did not cancel all meetings and huff off.

[pnwmom]

146. Sanders apparently wasted the time between Netroots and Westlake Center in Seattle.

He may have been blindsided by what happened at Netroots, but he didn't have to be by BLM showing up in Seattle.

[NCTraveler]

15. BLM is handling the dem primary well. Nt

[bravenak]

19. That is TRUTH!!nt

[jfern]

17. Why is she denying BLM a debate?

DWS is refusing to allow another debate. DWS supports Hillary and both Bernie and O'Malley want more debates.

[bravenak]

21. WHY ARE YOU SAYING SHE IS DENYING A DEBATE? SHE DOES NOT RUN THE DNC. PLEASE STOP.

[jfern]

24. She basically does, If Hillary wanted more debates, DWS would immediately schedule more.

[bravenak]

27. THAT IS MERELY YOUR OPINION. NOT FACT!

[jfern]

32. It is fact

Have you been paying any attention to how DWS was caught lying? Do I have to find the links?

[bravenak]

36. IS DWS HRC? NO!

[jfern]

38. DWS chose fewer debates to help Hillary. It's a fact.

[bravenak]

42. Seems more helpful to Bernie!!!

[jfern]

44. Bernie and O'Malley asked for more than 6

The only reason why there aren't more than 6 debates is because Hillary never asked for them.

[bravenak]

50. We need to blame her for not asking for more of what Bernie wanted and Martin OMalley wanted?

A woman's burden never end, Lord! Lord help us!

[jfern]

53. What did that have to do with gender?

You're just deflecting from the fact that the only reason we don't have more debates (including a BLM one) is because Hillary doesn't want more debates.

[bravenak]

62. She has a gender. You put the burden on the female to do the asking for what the two men wanted.

As a female it annoys me that people see her as responsible for doing things to make the race easier for the two men who already have male privilege. Rare that a woman runs and now she must start asking for things she does not want to make the two men happy? No.

[jfern]

117. This attempt to play the gender card is really pathetic

[bravenak]

120. Ten point for gender card!! I have to take a shot now. Drinking game.

[tishaLA]

429. I'm considering yelling "drink!" for every mention of gender/race card

but I fear I'd die of alcohol poisoning.

I can't tell you how astonishing I find this appropriation of wingnut speech.

[sheshe2]

171. Boom...

She has a gender. You put the burden on the female to do the asking for what the two men wanted.


As a female it annoys me that people see her as responsible for doing things to make the race easier for the two men who already have male privilege. Rare that a woman runs and now she must start asking for things she does not want to make the two men happy? No.

You nailed it.

Hey, another issue I have. Why do they always state something as fact and never provide a link, even when asked?

[bravenak]

173. Because they have no facts!

[BootinUp]

176. They have plenty of spin though! nt

[bravenak]

177. Like cyclones!

[sheshe2]

181. Exactly.....

I keep asking and I get another statement of fact~ Lol

[bravenak]

191. I think it's a game, myself.

[BootinUp]

218. UPDATE! Clinton open to more debates

Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton on Saturday suggested she's open to more presidential debates, amid pushback from her competitors about the Democratic National Committee's (DNC) light schedule.

"I am open to whatever the DNC decides to set up. That's their decision," she said during a stop in New Hampshire. "I debated a lot in 2008 and I would certainly be there with lots of enthusiasm and energy if they decide to add more debates, and I think that's the message that a lot of people are sending their way."

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/252845-clinton-open-to-more-debates

[jfern]

220. She never asked for more debates

If she asked for more debates, there would be more debates. As long as she doesn't ask for more debates, there won't be more debates. Open to more debates is meaningless triangulation as part of a good cop bad cop routine. Bullshit like that is exactly why people don't trust her.

[bravenak]

225. Why should she ask? She's open to it but not wanting it. No need to ask for something

she is merely 'open' to.

[jfern]

228. My point is that there won't be more debates because she didn't ask

She'll probably ask for more debates if she's ever behind in the polls, like in 2008 when she asked for and got another 8 debates even though there had already been 18.

[bravenak]

234. So what? Why does that make or break anything? She won the debate anyway.

[jfern]

236. It means that there won't be a BLM debate

And if 6 debates are good enough now, then why did she ask for and get another 8 after there had already been 18 in 2008?

[bravenak]

239. Okay? There wasn't one last time either.

[jfern]

240. So you don't think BLM is important enough to have a debate?

If BLM had existed last time, I'm sure they could have had one of the 26 debates.

[bravenak]

248. I never said that. You did.

[jfern]

265. Do you agree that there should be more debates?

[bravenak]

268. I am ambivalent.

I think that if they start doing functions for a party they will be coopted by the party and become the new naacp.

[jfern]

270. Well, they want a debate

[bravenak]

271. Ok, and?

[jfern]

273. They want a debate but aren't getting it.

[bravenak]

274. True. Yes. They are not getting what they want. True.

[BootinUp]

276. I want a pony. nt

[bravenak]

278. I want ONE BIIIIIILLLLLOIN DOOOOLLLLAAAARRRRSSS!

[jfern]

279. If black lives matter and they want a debate, shouldn't they get one?

[bravenak]

280. Should? We shouldn't NEED a debate on whether black lives matter.

I don't know what they SHOULD get besides full equality. I do not know why you wanna ask me, the black lady, about whether they should get a Debate. Nobody ever listens to me. Ever.

[jfern]

282. Well, the corporate media probably won't ask too many questions on BLM

[bravenak]

313. They never do ask much about blacks

[jfern]

317. Yes, they need one that isn't controlled by the corporate media

"Debates that are shaped by the corporate media will never adequately address the issues we care about."

https://www.facebook.com/BlackLivesMatter/posts/504518409719409

[Skidmore]

352. Exactly. Debates are words and words flow

endlessly. We need actions because words change and messages become diluted. Addressing presidential candidates spreaks to a party. However, action is needed to curtail unnecessary police abuses. It would save lives.

[NaturalHigh]

420. How many other groups would like to have their own debate...

that is all about them? Teachers? Police officers? Unions? Bankers?

Why should blm get their own debate?

[mcar]

106. please post links to support this "fact"

[jfern]

121. See comment 34

[mcar]

169. That is not proof of your contention

[jfern]

170. You probably will accept nothing as proof

[mcar]

187. Why don't you try me?

Offer real proof that DWS is doing HRC's bidding. I'm still waiting.

[jfern]

189. The other campaigns all want more debates

Even some of the DNC vice chairs have called for more debates. But DWS won't budge.

[mcar]

192. But how does that prove that

HRC is dictating to DWS? I don't argue with what you've posted, just the conclusion you are drawing from it.

[jfern]

194. All but one candidate has asked for more debates, and yet it's still only 6.

I have no doubt that there would be more debates if Hillary joined the other candidates in asking for more debates. Whether you would count that as Hillary dictating the number of the debates doesn't matter.

In 2008, after 18 debates, Hillary asked for and got another 8 debates.

[mcar]

195. But you are not proving your point

You claim that DWS is in HRC 's pocket. You provide anecdotal information as "proof." Show me true proof. Please.

[jfern]

196. Do you dispute my previous comment?

[mcar]

198. What previous comment?

You know what? I'm done. I have tried to engage you and ask you politely to prove your contention. You have not.

I bid you good evening.

[jfern]

207. Comment 194

[Cha]

332. It must make them feel better by believing everything is Hillary's fault. Hillary would do

well with a #BlackLivesMatter Debate. She's very comfortable with them.

[sheshe2]

166. If it is a fact then where is your link?

[jfern]

167. Every other candidate asked for more debates

And so did some the DNC Vice Chairs. DWS lied about disinviting Gabbard to the debate in retaliation.

[sheshe2]

175. I asked for links.

"Every other candidate asked for more debates"

Link?

"And so did some the DNC Vice Chairs".

Link?

"DWS lied about disinviting Gabbard to the debate in retaliation."

Link?

LinkS?

[jfern]

185. Here

Bernie and O'Malley called for more debates. Hillary did not.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-declines-call-more-democratic-debates

DNC vice chairs Rybak and Gabbard calls for more debates.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/16/1433382/-BREAKING-Insurrection-Erupts-at-the-Democratic-National-Committee

DWS disinvited Gabbard lied about the debate scheduling process.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/16/1433522/-Democratic-Party-chair-caught-lying-about-her-debate-scheduling-process

[JonLeibowitz]

304. Interesting. It got real quiet here.

[Cha]

307. EDIT: Hillary Clinton Says She’s Open to More Debates

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 03:09 AM - Edit history (1)

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/09/05/hillary-clinton-says-shes-open-to-more-debates/

Haven't heard Bernie call for more since he lost the first one.

[jfern]

324. Hillary never actually asked for more debates

[Cha]

327. So, she's ready for more.. Hillary does great in debates.

[jfern]

328. Well, she's the only reason we aren't getting more than 6 debates and aren't getting a BLM one

[Cha]

331. You just keep pushing your little CT if it makes you feel better about bernie losing. I've seen the

posts on here calling you out on your fake theory.

[jfern]

337. All but 1 candidate asked for more debates

It's not a CT to say that we're not getting more debates because of Hillary. It's pretty obvious.

[Cha]

338. Keep digging.

[jfern]

339. If Hillary isn't why we're not getting more debates

Then that means that if the Hillary campaign was to ask for more debates, the DNC would still say no, despite all campaigns having asked for that. That's a real conspiracy theory.

[Cha]

340. You need a bigger shovel.

[riversedge]

365. Your crystal ball has a crack in it and is putting forth silly stuff. Best fix it.

[jfern]

392. The other candidates all asked for more debates

It's obvious that if Hillary joined them and asked for more debates, there would be more debates.

[quakerboy]

43. If all the candidates want a debate

How would the DNC stop them?

If its not happening, it seems clear at least one of the candidates doesn't want it to happen.

It also seems clear that its dishonest to pretend that Hillary is not far more tied in to the Democratic Party machine and closer to its nominal leadership than any other candidate, now that Biden is out.

[Agschmid]

49. It's probably Lessig.

[Warren Stupidity]

92. wow, lame. even with all caps.

DWS is HRC's agent.

[bravenak]

93. Prove it. And I thought caps were in style here? No?

What about these: ?

[Warren Stupidity]

96. try to be honest about things

its ok, your candidate is most likely going to win the nomination. Try to face reality.

[bravenak]

108. I am trying to get y'all to face reality.

I have no great undying love for HRC. But damn! Bernie done grown seven halos! I just can't. Everybody has flaws. She does. He does. But the things I have seen from his side were bad for me and my demographic. I have seen bunches of progressive white people completely break with reality and try to bash John Lewis on civil rights on his facebook and all over the place. Done. That kinda stuff is played out. Once it gets to that point I see no hope for change. Nothing can be done.

[Warren Stupidity]

150. The reality that DWS is not an agent for HRC?

Why would you insist on that particular line of bullshit? It destroys any credibility you might have. You just come off as a hack exploiting any angle to portray the supporters of other candidates as bad people.

[bravenak]

151. The reality that the HRC hate is getting so annoying that I feel like defending her.

[Warren Stupidity]

156. ah I see you no longer care to address the actual point here

you denied that DWS is acting for HRC, as her agent. You now want to change the subject, understandably. But that too is just you acting dishonestly here in this subthread. Again, it destroys whatever credibility you have. Perhaps you don't care and view us all as "the enemy" and thus not deserving of honest discourse. How is that going to work for you later on, after the primaries are over?

[bravenak]

157. I said what I had to say.

[emulatorloo]

174. I would think twice before accusing bravenak of "intellectual dishonesty"

In this thread, I've seen a fair amount of quote fabrication, shoving words into other poster's mouths, and appeals to 'facts' that are basically opinions that sounds "truthy." Not to mention the posting of right-wing sources as if they were bastions of truth-telling.

Of course, I am not suggesting those things are coming from you.

However none of that bullshit is coming from bravenak.

[mcar]

200. ...

[Warren Stupidity]

264. So do you also claim that DWS does not operate

in the interests of HRC?

Or would you also prefer to ignore that particular claim?

[emulatorloo]

379. "Or would you also prefer to ignore that particular claim?"

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 12:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Ok Warren, since I was not explicit in that part in my prior post to you, I will quote the part which addressed the DWS "it is a fact!" posts here in bravenak's thread.

Here is what I said on that:

"appeals to 'facts' that are basically opinions that sounds "truthy"

[Warren Stupidity]

394. Seriously?

Wasserman Schultz announced her support of Hillary Clinton for her party's 2008 presidential nomination, and in June 2007 was named one of Clinton's national campaign co-chairs
wikipedia

DWS is an HRC operative. Them's the facts. Try honesty, it could be refreshing.

[emulatorloo]

398. Thanks for clearing up my confusion, I didn't know the current year is 2007?!?

I guess I need to take down my Bernie avatar and start campaigning for John Edwards to win the Iowa Caucus quick!

-----------------------

I think DWS sucks.

Nonetheless, I still remain unconvinced by the 'facts' presented in this thread to support what is essentially a conspiracy theory.

-------------

"Try honesty, it could be refreshing."

Warren, I generally enjoy your posts and appreciate your intellect. I really wish you would back off on this tactic.

You have a great Halloween night!

[angrychair]

303. I don't understand

Bravenak, the "But the things I have seen from his side were bad for me and my demographic. I have seen bunches of progressive white people completely break with reality and try to bash John Lewis on civil rights on his facebook and all over the place."

I have been very fair and even-handed about all of this. I have got a little frustrated, just like anyone else, but I have tried really hard to hear everyone out and discuss issues without making it rude or unreasonable.
As a women and a person of color, why do you feel Mr. Sanders would be "bad for me and my demographic". I have done an honest look at Brenie's career and I don't see anything in his history that would support such a conjecture but I am more than willing to listen. Thanks!

[bravenak]

314. If you were not involved then I am not talking about you.

Sigh. Okay.
I feel as if Sanders does not notice the things that are important to me. If he cannot see the friction between black democrats and his grassroots I am concerned that he will not notice black issues as president. If there is an unwelcoming atmosphere in his grassroots, how inclusive coukd his administration be?

[angrychair]

321. Thank you

I appreciate the answer. I cannot speak for others actions, only for my own. Again, like our respective candidates, I'm not perfect but I have always tried to keep open mind and discuss things fairly.
I feel maybe I am either naive or I've been inattentive as I have not picked up on the things you have written about. Not speaking to what people on DU may or may not have said. That should never be taken to much to heart. I'm far more concerned if you have been given that impression from lRL Bernie supporters or his campaign.
Really, I have never had a IRL interaction with a Bernie supporter or a campaign staffer that was negative or appeared negative toward anyone else, regardless of their sex, origin, sexual identity, race or religion.
I am sorry. I may not be able to change your mind to support Bernie but we are not all that bad either.

[TheKentuckian]

158. She was one of her chairs for crying out loud. That alone puts them past passing ships in the night

that happen to be in the same party.

[bravenak]

159. I have friends. They do not control me.

[TheKentuckian]

212. You and your friends aren't a bunch of high level politicians

you also aren't likely a chairman for their campaigns which is a relationship which doesn't preclude friendship of course but it is a political operative not necessarily about sharing your heart and life. Campaign chair and friends isn't apples to apples at all.

There is also a lot less need for "control" when you are on a shared agenda.


And yes you influence your friends and they you without control being a determining factor.

[bravenak]

214. That still does not prove Hillary controls her.

[TheKentuckian]

251. Doesn't have to for it to spend about the same and it is an indicator of the realistic possibility.

[bravenak]

253. Possibility is not fact and I don't run on that. Hillary knows alot of people.

[TheKentuckian]

269. The Don has a lot of friends, huh. LOL

[bravenak]

272. Lol! My bad. It did sound positively mafialike.

[Number23]

98. This is the same guy that posted this link as "proof" of the protesters being "dragged off

by the police"

https://twitter.com/darrensands/status/660178517045420032

Never mind that they are arm and arm and appear to be receiving applause from the people in the crowd as they are WALKED not "dragged" out of the room. No dishonesty on DU about BLM. Not one tiny bit.

[bravenak]

153. They just be coming up with all types of BLM fairy tales.

[philosslayer]

382. Is your caps lock key broken?

[bravenak]

393. It's in style to over use caps

[bvf]

426. No, it's not.

It's a cheap and obvious device that purports to pass as wit among the unequipped, and as much a sign of ignorance of posting etiquette today as it's been for decades.

Aren't you the clever one, though?

[tishaLA]

430. "cheap," "unequipped," "ignorance"

ladies and gents, the trifecta!

Congrats, or something

[bvf]

432. Nice typing there.

Care to address the point?

No? OK, then. I figured as much.

[bravenak]

441. See how they talk to me?

[bravenak]

440. Of course I'm clever. I make the style.

[mcar]

25. What are you talking about?

HRC is not (yet) head of the party.

[jfern]

28. DWS is doing Hillary's bidding

[mcar]

31. Proof?

[jfern]

34. Here

For most debate viewers and Democratic voters, the Gabbard flap, if it registered at all, was little more than a sideshow. But among Democratic officials and strategists, the dust-up was an embarrassing public spectacle—a boiling-over of long-simmering frustrations and resentments within the party hierarchy at a highly inopportune moment.
Of two dozen Democratic insiders with whom I spoke this week, including several DNC vice chairs, not one defended Wasserman Schultz’s treatment of Gabbard. Most called it ridiculous, outrageous, or worse. Many argued, further, that the debate plan enacted by the chairwoman is badly flawed—an assessment shared by many party activists, left-bent supporters of Bernie Sanders and Martin O’Malley, and those candidates themselves, all of whom see it as a naked effort to aid and comfort Hillary Clinton. And they maintained that the plan was a clear reflection of Wasserman Schultz’s management style, which many of them see as endangering Democratic prospects in 2016 and beyond.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/16/1433382/-BREAKING-Insurrection-Erupts-at-the-Democratic-National-Committee

[mcar]

168. And still no proof of your contention

[Agschmid]

46. Well that's just false.

[jfern]

48. It's true, unlike Bernie and O'Malley, Hillary never asked for more than 6 debates

[Agschmid]

51. She is more than willing to participate in any additional DNC sanction debates...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/06/politics/hillary-clinton-debates-dnc/

Your beef if with DWS, not Hillary.

[jfern]

55. She never asked for more than 6

Of course if all campaigns had asked for more than 6, DWS would have complied. But Hillary doesn't actually want more than 6. Of course she's trying to play a little good cop bad cop, but really doesn't want more debates.

[Agschmid]

57. Lemme guess you asked her directly?

[jfern]

58. It's a fact that Hillary was the only campaign to not ask for more than 6 debates

[Agschmid]

63. It's a fact she is open to more.

[jfern]

67. If she wanted more debates, she'd ask for them

That being open to more was just some classic good cop bad cop routine. Of course she doesn't actually want more debates, or she would have told DWS, and DWS would have scheduled them. Don't tell me you take everything Republicans say at face value, too?

[Agschmid]

75. Ha...

So because I posted a fact, I'm a push over for republicans.

And you wonder why it's so hard to have discussions on here. I didn't get personal here, you did.

This is why posting on DU doesn't do much, today I spent six hours volunteering for the campaign I want to win. I worked with volunteers of all ages set up the canvass tomorrow, and set up canvass packets to hit over 400 doors in the first in the nation primary state.

I work to get my candidate elected, I don't work to bring down others, or accuse them of being republicans.

[jfern]

79. Stop deflecting, my point wasn't about Republicans

My point was that Hillary doesn't want more than 6 debates, so we don't get the debate BLM wanted.

[Agschmid]

81. Hillary said she is open to more debates.

That's a fact.

Your issue is DWS.

I'm not deflecting, I'm responding to an accusation you made.

[jfern]

86. Hillary never asked for more debates

Every other campaign asked for more debates. It's obvious that Hillary doesn't want more debates.

[Agschmid]

90. Someone who doesn't want more debates doesn't say...

"I'm open to more debates"

[jfern]

116. If she wanted more debates, she'd ask for them

Otherwise it's just a phony good cop bad cop routine.

[msrizzo]

144. She's probably quite happy with six.

But she doesn't need more than six. It's not her job to do what's good for other candidates. And that is just a fact too.

[jfern]

149. OK, but BLM didn't get the debate they wanted because of that.

[Cha]

325. Why are you propagating a CT?

[jfern]

326. It's not a CT. All the candidates except her asked for more debates.

[Cha]

330. Hillary is certainly open to more debates.. she's ready. She'll knock it outta the park again

on #BLM, too.. she's very comfortable with them.

[ismnotwasm]

22. High praise indeed!

[bravenak]

26. It was good.

The crowd was black, the protesters too,(it was like the time blm protested obama, they were like cool, now let us hear her plan on ending racial profiling) and Hillary kept her cool and did what needed doing. I like people who rise to the occasion. Shows character.

[ismnotwasm]

59. I'm glad to hear it

All of the candidates need to step up.

[azmom]

29. What did they want?

[bravenak]

178. Justice?

[azmom]

183. They released a statement

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=747055

[bravenak]

184. They usually do.

[azmom]

186. Had not seen it, when I posted to this thread. N/t

[bravenak]

188. Ok. I had already seen it. Good statement. All candidates need to work.

[azmom]

190. They do.

[BootinUp]

30. I need a link!

[bravenak]

39. Ok!

https://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/watch-black-lives-matter-protesters-interrupt-hillarys-campaign-speech-in-atlanta/

[BootinUp]

73. TY

[bravenak]

77. Yeah!

[retrowire]

33. She handled that incident well yes.

But how well would she do against them if they stormed the stage and took the mic?

Let's not compare apples to apples.

[bravenak]

41. Umm hmm.

If sniff!

[retrowire]

45. If sniff?

wut.

Anyways, I'm sorry. This was a bit forward of me. But I do think it's an observation worth noticing.

Either way, she did do well. I agree.

[bravenak]

52. I do not like ifs that much. So if sniff.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. If my aunt had wheels she would be a car.

eom

[bravenak]

56. My God. They just do not see.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. Don't try to convince somebody of something...

Don't try to convince somebody of something their whole world view depends on not believing.

[bravenak]

74. I see a new religion forming.

Fine with me but I cannot join.

[retrowire]

61. Ha, I like the phrase. n/t

[bravenak]

64. You should use it. People get this crazy look on their face. Hella funny.nt

[guillaumeb]

35. While HRC did handle the interruption very well,

she does have a past to defend, and positions from her past might be difficult to reconcile with her present position.

According to our analysis, one of these candidate had a principled, progressive stance toward welfare reform, while the other had a politically convenient stance that, at the time, seemed most likely to advance her political career. And yet, bizarrely, Bernie Sanders is the one under attack for his attitude toward civil rights in this country.

Years later, Bernie Sanders continues to fight for the issues liberals care about without seeking to personally enrich himself in the process. He reported a net worth of just $330,000 in 2013. Hillary Clinton, by contrast, earned more than $25 million over the past year, and earned more than Sanders’ entire net worth in one hour for an October 2014 speech sponsored by telecom giant Qualcomm.

From the same article:

While Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are both vying for the Democratic presidential nomination, they are very different candidates, a recent Free Beacon analysis found. A subsequent analysis has determined that Bernie and Hillary had significantly different opinions regarding the controversial welfare reform legislation signed into law by Bill Clinton in the mid-1990s.
Here’s how Hillary Clinton described welfare recipients in an 1999 op-ed:

Too many of those on welfare had known nothing but dependency all their lives, and many would have found it difficult to make the transition to work on their own.
Hillary Clinton also defended welfare reform in 2000 column:
Since we first asked mothers to move from welfare to work, millions of families have made the transition from dependency to dignity.
In 2002, when Congress was debating whether to reauthorize the Clinton-era reforms, then-Senator Hillary Clinton said:
Now that we’ve said these people are no longer deadbeats—they’re actually out there being productive—how do we keep them there?

AS to Sanders' positions:

Bernie Sander, on the other hand, voted against the 1996 welfare reform legislation as a member of the House of Representatives, and strongly denounced it as cruel. Here’s how he described the legislation in his 1997 book, Outsider in the House:
The bill, which combines an assault on the poor, women and children, minorities, and immigrants is the grand slam of scapegoating legislation, and appeals to the frustrations and ignorance of the American people along a wide spectrum of prejudices.

Here’s how he described the welfare reform debate during a C-SPAN interview in 1994:

My concern is in the process of welfare reform, we begin to look at the causes of poverty in America, that we make sure that we improve the situation and not punish poor people and children, especially the children.

Sanders also wrote in his 1997 that while he supported Bill Clinton for reelection over his GOP rival Bob Dole, he had plenty of reservations:
Do I have confidence that Clinton will stand up for the working people of this country—for children, for the elderly, for the folks who are hurting? No, I do not.

According to our analysis, one of these candidate had a principled, progressive stance toward welfare reform, while the other had a politically convenient stance that, at the time, seemed most likely to advance her political career. And yet, bizarrely, Bernie Sanders is the one under attack for his attitude toward civil rights in this country.

Years later, Bernie Sanders continues to fight for the issues liberals care about without seeking to personally enrich himself in the process. He reported a net worth of just $330,000 in 2013. Hillary Clinton, by contrast, earned more than $25 million over the past year, and earned more than Sanders’ entire net worth in one hour for an October 2014 speech sponsored by telecom giant Qualcomm.

Is HRC's response one based on principle, or expedience?

http://freebeacon.com/blog/analysis-bernie-sander-vs-hillary-clinton-on-welfare-reform/

[bravenak]

70. I will tell you something you may not know.

Black folks hate it when people bring up Welfare like that is all we care about and that we are all somehow in need of the system. I'm not. None of my immediate family is. My mom and sister like welfare reform because of our certain family member who have, YES, been abusing the system for years. We are not all the same. The indignity of welfare is just too much for me. I would rather knowck on doors and shovel rooftops and collect cans and stand outside of home depot with a day laborer sign than get on welfare. It is not a good talking point to use.

[guillaumeb]

137. You could tell me many things that I do not know, bravenak. And there are VERY many things!!!!

I used the welfare reform issue because it was the first thing that occurred to me. I could have used NAFTA, or William Clinton and sentencing practices. My point is that there will be many things brought up here and in the media about HRC and her various and changing positions on many issues over the years.

Plus welfare reform has been presented in the media and by politicians from both parties as an exclusively black issue, or as an exclusively First People issue in some states, even though the majority of people using public assistance have always been white, southern, and rural.

Finally, welcome back.

[bravenak]

160. Thank you.

It's nice to be back. Kinda. Many of those issues are issues for all the candidates in some way.

[guillaumeb]

202. All three Democratic candidates are light years ahead of the GOP clowns.

None of them are perfect on all issues. During the latest Benghazi farce, HRC easily outclassed all of the GOP people on the panel. She is a very smart person and would make a good President. As would Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders.

I just hope that everyone at DU who expends so much "keyboard energy" on their preferred candidate spends as much actual energy working for the Democratic nominees, whoever they may be, at every level in 2016.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

354. The vast majority...

The vast majority of African Americans supported welfare reform and the criminal justice reform of the 90s


A google search will confirm that.

That being said, different eras demand different solutions.

[SidDithers]

155. The Washington Free Beacon is a right-wing shithole...

Sid

[mcar]

172. Yet another RW source

Allowed on DU these days.

[guillaumeb]

206. see #204 and respond if you wish.

[guillaumeb]

204. Argue the facts rather than engage in ad hominem.

But if you dislike my original citation, I will give you another.



Clinton’s leftward shift includes calling for an “end to the era of mass incarceration” in a recent speech about the criminal justice system. That speech didn’t just represent a departure from a number of the positions she espoused during her 2008 primary campaign, including embracing mandatory minimum sentences. It was an about-face from the beefed-up sentencing and funding for police and prisons allocated by the 1994 crime bill, pushed for and signed by President Bill Clinton—a bill she supported at the time.

But if she wants to be the candidate who champions the needs of vulnerable Americans, of those at the bottom of the economy instead of the top, of people of color and mothers and children, then she’s going to have to wrestle with another legacy of her husband’s that, at least at one time, had her support: welfare reform......



Hillary Clinton supported her husband’s push for welfare reform, which may not be surprising, given how often she has stood by her man. But she also voiced support for it during her 2008 campaign, expressing no misgivings about how it turned out and telling The New York Times that she thought it was necessary and enormously successful.

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-wants-help-families-bottom-so-will-she-change-her-mind-welfare-reform/


As you, and all here can see, this is from The Nation, hardly a right wing publication. But no matter the source, the fact remains that HRC was an enthusiastic supporter of William Clinton's programs, including "welfare reform".

[emulatorloo]

182. Please try to refrain from citing right-wing sources as if they were truth-tellers

[MisterP]

40. no, best response IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY!

[jfern]

47. The double standard is ridiculous

[MisterP]

139. Candidate 1 does as told, lets even uninvolved orgs on stage, and is praised as a fast collaborator

Candidate 2 repeatedly dismisses BLM, tells them to join her machine or piss off, and then gets takes millions from redliners and CCA

[arcane1]

66. +1

I love how she leans back as far as she can, as if afraid to get blackness on her

[bravenak]

78. Some are jealous of the way people are drawn to her.

[Phlem]

111. Yep.

But hey let's forget about that, that's in the past. We need to move forward!

[NYCButterfinger]

60. It was good, but this is why Middle America

views BLM as terrorists. You don't interrupt a rally. People view BLM as a arm of the Democratic Party, and this will rile up Middle America already. I already hear people at work saying rough things about African Americans, the level of vitriol will increase if things go on. You should have heard what my co workers said today.

[bravenak]

65. Terrorists. I will add it to my list of slurs against BLM. Thanks.

[NYCButterfinger]

80. Not coming from me, it's coming from a lot of folks

A lot of people are fed up with BLM. I think they are protesting in a good way, but you tell folks in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, Maspeth, Queens, and some places in the country that, they'll destroy you in half. BLM has a lot of work to do or else they will be scrutinized by the electorate in 2016.

[bravenak]

82. Thank you for bringing that up!!!

People sometimes blame their own opinions on 'what some people think'c

[Warren Stupidity]

95. Ah its those "other folks", but not you. Glad you cleared that up.

yikes.

[NYCButterfinger]

105. It's people at my workplace. They're starting to despise

POC. One of them postponed his engagement with an African American because of BLM.

[sufrommich]

107. Oh my God,this is pathetic and I don't believe you. nt

[NYCButterfinger]

136. Why don't you believe me? This is America.

People at my workplace say a lot of things. Come on. Believe me. This is America.

[msrizzo]

147. That fiance dodged a bullet.

I would thank my lucky stars to discover what a bigot he was AFTER I married him.

[Starry Messenger]

161. Where...no never mind.

[Metric System]

197. Psst...They already despised them.

[mcar]

203. For real?

[rbrnmw]

208. Engagement? Like marriage? Because of BLM?

Or dinner engagement? I don't believe you either

[stonecutter357]

415. you will find white hoods if you look.

[tishaLA]

431. and the fiance(e) was probably

"one of the good ones," too!

[murielm99]

333. I remember canvassing for Obama

in white areas. Many people would say, "Well, I am not a racist, BUT..."

They would go on to describe friends, family members, co-workers who would not vote for a black man.

We would calmly tell them about some of Obama's positions and give them literature, if they would take it. And this was in Illinois, where he is well-known and respected.

Unreal.

In my opinion, a lot of this is simple racism. BLM could be as sweet and syrupy as you please, and white people would still feel threatened by them.

[ismnotwasm]

71. Holy shit you did not just say that

Who the fuck thinks #BLM are "terrorists?

[bravenak]

76. I think it's me. Something about me encourages this type of response.

[ismnotwasm]

91. Yeah you get the best of the best of the best of them (or worst)

That's for damn sure

[bravenak]

122. This guy....

"PEOPLE, not myself, but PEOPLE, see BLM as terrorists. Hmmm" OKAY.

[NYCButterfinger]

84. I don't think so. People I know in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn?

They HATE BLM. They see BLM spitting on the US flag, trespassing military funerals in Brooklyn, etc, and they think that think that it can hurt the Democratic Party in NY 2016. Bay Ridge has a lot of blue collar voters that will decide the election.

[ismnotwasm]

88. And these racist people vote for Democrats?

You serious?

You know I just looked that shit up and got some RW links.

[NYCButterfinger]

97. They're Democrats. They're old school.

Visit Bay Ridge. Please. It's an old school place. Visit NYC, take the R train. 95th Street. You'll see the old school way there. Trust me.

[ismnotwasm]

100. Old school meaning what, exactly?

Old white guys running everything?

[NYCButterfinger]

131. They want women to responsible for their lives

instead of the government. They're old school Democrats. Bay Ridge is a bastion of old school tactics.

[Lisa D]

163. WTF?

I can't even...

[Number23]

101. Oh for God's sake...

[zappaman]

115. "Middle America views BLM as terrorists."

Wow.
You sure you're on the right website?

[sufrommich]

119. But people are saying!

[NYCButterfinger]

133. I am on the right website. You don't know Bay Ridge.

They're not buying it. They hate BLM. It's not working. You go in the bars in Bay Ridge and hear what they say. You won't like it. However, some of them are swing voters.

[ismnotwasm]

145. I looked at your journal

You seem to imply they are Rand Paul voters--or is it a different group of East Coasters?

[Agschmid]

199. Oh FFS.

[frylock]

94. I especially liked how she handled being shoved and having the mic taken from her..

Great display of Presidential poise when they demanded that she bow down as well.

[bravenak]

112. Are you accusing somebody of assault? Did the po-lices get called?

Since she joined their cry, I guess they found her humility level acceptable.

[frylock]

213. I believe the police esorted these Social Justice Warriors off the premises.

[bravenak]

216. Ohhhh! I guess Bernie shoulda had security!

[frylock]

219. DU's resident Social Justice Warrior, ladies and gentlemen!

You aren't fooling anybody anymore.

[bravenak]

222. I am not fooled anymore by empty rhetoric and cries of allyship.

[frylock]

224. I have no desire to be your ally.

[bravenak]

227. I KNOW THAT. I BEEN KNEW THAT. But here you are. Here again. Just need to communicate with me.

[frylock]

229. I'm hoping to put as many eyes as I can on your hypocrisy.

[bravenak]

231. Yes. Like your newly revealed concern for us.

[frylock]

244. There's some things being newly revealed tonight to be sure..

or maybe not. Maybe not.

[bravenak]

247. I bet you look back on this and feel bad later.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

345. As a dispassionate observer it is incumbent upon me to address your character attack on bravenak

I'm hoping to put as many eyes as I can on your hypocrisy.

-frylock

Untrue and deeply personal attacks have no place on a progressive board. Actually they have no place on any board.

Thank you in advance.

[bvf]

435. We get it already!

You're dispassionate. You observe.

You learned a new word.

A new trick, please. This one's getting stale.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

436. May I substitute fair and impartial for dispassionate?

Thank you in advance.

[bvf]

437. Sure, if you think that would make any difference.

Use any terms you like to describe yourself.

It changes nothing.

You see that, right?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

438. It's my calling card .

eom

[BootinUp]

241. I would like to say that

your response is not surprising, but it is in violation of the spirit of this website.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

348. That seems like

I have no desire to be your ally.

That seems like such an unnecessarily mean and hurtful thing to say.

[SunSeeker]

109. K & R

[Thinkingabout]

110. She sure did, she hab a very civil conversation and they made accomplishments,

Much better than crowd yelling to have them taxes.

[bravenak]

114. Yep. No cries of 'TAZE THEM!"

I was glad to see such grace. She handled it with aplomb.

[jfern]

123. They yelled "Let her talk"

They sure didn't want BLM to speak.

[Thinkingabout]

124. Wrong.

[jfern]

126. Nope, the crowd did not want BLM to speak

As the activists' chants overpowered her, supporters chimed in, “Let her talk, let her talk."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-heckled-black-lives-matter-activists/story?id=34861920

When Bernie was protested, BLM got to speak uninterrupted. Why didn't Hillary give BLM the chance to speak that they had at Bernie's events?

[bravenak]

127. Black crowd chanting down black protestors so they can hear about racial profiling?

Guess the optics are just not the same as a white Seattle crowd yelling 'taze them!'. Not one person yelled arrest them or taze them. Hmm. Maybe that's a part if the reason.
How much you wanna bet that HRC fans don't start trolling the aa group or harassing black folks?

[rbrnmw]

209. Exactly it was a black audience

[riversedge]

125. Well done Hillary

[DianeK]

128. oh yeah..very well...shout over them and then..

have her 'handlers' corral them to where they can be better controlled...yup..she got that right

[Number23]

129. The BLM situation has exposed "liberal" racism, hypocricy and dishonesty better than anything

I can think of over the last 30 years. And anyone that thinks that black people have not noticed or will forget is living in a bubble indeed.

I am damn glad BLM protested Hillary. I would have loved for Hillary to have let them stay in the room. Shit, I would have loved for her to have invited them to the damn stage. That would have been the best. But they got to say what they wanted for several minutes without anyone screaming for their deaths or for them to be jailed. The crowd seemed, unsurprisingly, to be quite receptive to their message even though they did want to hear Hillary -- one of the many, MANY reasons it helps to have lots (not a couple, not even a couple hundred -- LOTS) of minorities among your supporters.

As I type, I have not yet seen swarms of angry, hostile Hillary supporters swarming BLM's Twitter feed and the Facebook pages of random black folks DEMANDING that we owe her our allegiance and support because of "all she's done for us." I have not seen a single Hillary supporter on DU refer to them as "thugs" or "subhuman" or declare that we have mental illness.

This right here is the kind of stuff that minorities see and remember. And this is the kind of thing we take with us when we go to the ballot box.

[bravenak]

134. I noticed that too.

No packs of wild Hillcats running us down to tell us 'the good news' about Hillary. I had hoped she would bring them on stage too but it kinda looked like she was moving to the beat of the chant, which was better than indignation. That's why I gave her a very well not an awesome.

If they thought for one second that that stuff they pulled would be forgotten they must have lost it. No way. If me hammering about it has not given clues that their memory problems are no shared by all, then maybe this will. I ENJOY reminding people of things done that they seem to have forgotten.

[BootinUp]

135. nice post. nt

[Agschmid]

201. Yup.

[mcar]

205. All of this Number 23

I'm glad they protested her too. Given her security issues, inviting them onstage wouldn't have been possible.

But they did get to speak, she responded and Rep Lewis spoke with them too. I'm not up on social media but I haven't read about HRC supporters being hostile about it.

[stevenleser]

242. And the more vocal Sanders supporters here willfully ignore all the stuff you pointed out here.

Including the OP of this post, http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=747128 and those supporting her.

[Number23]

289. This forum is so full of shit today I am actually tempted to trash it. The SAME FOLKS that have

called BLM every repulsive, disgusting name they can think of for the last FOUR MONTHS are now dancing and hopping around like kangaroos because they've gone after Hillary. And are scouring the web trying to find ANYTHING that can come close to pretending that the encounter today was just so horrible for Hillary.

Pretending that there are not 50 videos that show what happened and that Hillary had the protesters "dragged out by the cops" when the video shows absolutely nothing of the sort. That "black elites" like John Lewis stood by and did nothing while the protesters were called "nigger" by OTHER BLACK PEOPLE.

After being heard for thirty minutes, John Lewis apparently calmed the protesters and they were led out. THIRTY MINUTES. That's the truth of the situation. Everything else is noise. She could have handled this better, I would have LOVED for her to have brought them on stage, but as usual the lies about this are pushing everything else out of the way.

This is a level of stupidity and shit stirring that I've never seen before. These people don't give the first shit about Black Lives Matter and could not make that more obvious. And I'm sure NOBODY is surprised by a single one of the posters engaging in this hateful, dishonest bullshit. NOT ONE.

[stevenleser]

290. Yep, see my OP here and I mentioned you and this post in a comment as something folks should see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251748114#op

[stevenleser]

439. Awww, you mad bro? Did my post make you have a 'sad'?

I love how mad you got at a post that was not addressed to you and was for someone else to make them aware I referred to them.

You have to be a pretty angry person in general to get upset about that.

[Cha]

452. Wow, a 7-0 Hide.. they just can't help it with their personal insults.. and they "look around and

see ugliness everywhere" except where it really is.

Way to go!

[stevenleser]

457. You know its bad when a Bernie supporter attacks a Hillary supporter and gets a 7-0 hide.

It means 5-6 Bernie supporters thought what they said was so ugly they voted to hide someone on their side.

[Cha]

458. Yep. All they know are personal insults and strawmen.. bernie can't win on the facts.

[Cha]

292. Thanks for that, 23~ yeah, bringing the Activists on stage would have been the best thing.

Thank you for addressing the lies.

#BlackLivesMatter

[Luminous Animal]

294. Um. Many of the protesters were disappointed with Lewis. And I've not once

seen a post by a Bernie supporter saying protesters were dragged anywhere.

The drag language, from what I have seen, comes from Hillary supporters.

The protesters say they were pushed and they were and there is video evidence of them being pushed.

Here is BLM activist and one of Campaign Zero's architects' response to John Lewis.

Here's Johnetta Elzie ?@Nettaaaaaaaa 7h7 hours ago
Johnetta Elzie Retweeted Dan Merica
I'm sure someone said the same to you about Gov. George C. Wallace + President Lyndon B. Johnson @repjohnlewis.

[Number23]

296. Everyone knows you see exactly what you want, whether it's real or not

And just because you didn't see something didn't mean that I didn't see it or that it didn't exist.

The "dragged by the cops" would be from a Bernie supporter, same as the recent "BLM is now GREAT!11one" conversion now that they've gone after Hillary from the same crowd that wanted them pepper sprayed and jailed four months ago.

And I don't know what that Tweet is you typed, what it's in reference to or why you typed it to me.

[Luminous Animal]

298. Really. Show me the post where a Bernie supporter says they were dragged by the cops.

I've not seen one.

That tweet is to illustrate how one powerful woman in Campaign Zero thinks about Lewis's criticism. She thinks it is bullshit and supports the status quo.

Her message to John Lewis (because he tsked tsked the protesters)

I'm sure someone said the same to you about Gov. George C. Wallace + President Lyndon B. Johnson

In twitter speak, she is saying, I am sure that someone told you to hush when you were confronting George Wallace and Lyndon Johnson.

[Number23]

299. That's fascinating. Really. I am sure that you're always been such a huge follower of this woman

and her message and that this is massively, INCREDIBLY important to you. Just like BLM. And that there won't be 1000 other Tweets from black people saying the complete opposite.

All of these folks whooping and crowing over this crap are absolutely embarrassing. This is yet another really incredible low point for DU and I'm sure that you will be the last one to see or understand that.

[Luminous Animal]

306. I'm not embarrassed. I have been following DeRay McKesson since Ferguson...

DeRay led me to Johnetta and in turn led me to Brittany.

The first and foremost amazing people behind Campaign Zero.

So, yeah. Following Johnetta… hearing her call for those who have been jailed. Donating what I can for justice for the protesters… has been an important part of my life.

I'm not whooping and crowing. I want all of our candidates to be better. Today Hillary did not.

It was a low point for her.

[Number23]

310. And I've been involved in organizations tackling this issue for the better part of 20 years

Your "following" somebody on Twitter may make you the envy of so many in this forum, it means less than nothing to me.

And Hillary doesn't look nearly as "low" as so many in this forum who are literally GLOWING with joy over this for all of the stupidest reasons, none of which have one damn thing to do with black people or BLM.

[Luminous Animal]

315. I do have a real life. And what I do there is no business to anyone here.

But my virtual life reflects my real live activism.

And, I am not GLOWING with joy over Hillary's response. Her response is precisely what I expected.

Shot down and ushered out. Hushed.

[Number23]

319. It's no business of mine and I GENUINELY could not care less what you do, here or anywhere

else. Which is precisely why I've never asked.

I think Hillary could have done better but she didn't do bad at all. You think Hillary failed. I couldn't care less. It's Halloween and I can think of a million more interesting things to do with my time rather than this pointless exchange.

Oh and here is the post that began this incredibly boring and time wasting "conversation." http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251746039#post53

Toodles

[Luminous Animal]

320. Toodles to you. Tomorrow is my B-day. Having a big ol party and

lots of friends came over tonight to decorate the house.

[George II]

358. "And I've not once seen a post by a Bernie supporter saying protesters were dragged anywhere."

Look through this thread, my friend:

"CLINTON Throws Out BLACK LIVES MATTER Activists During Speech On Race"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=747128

[Jamaal510]

295. This place

has been full of you-know-what everyday since at least the start of the primaries, but it has progressively (no pun intended) worsened. As bad as it looks and as much as this low-information discourse on racial issues makes me cringe, I can't bring myself to trash it. I want to examine how the forum evolves and/or implodes as the primaries carry on and come to a close early next year. It's like staring at a car wreck. I want to see what happens in the likelihood that the heavily-favored candidate here doesn't see higher poll numbers nationally and doesn't clinch the nomination.

[Number23]

297. I know. And now the white Bernie supporters that wanted BLM tossed in jail a few months ago are

singing in their praises, Hallelujah chorus and all, because they've gone after Hillary.

And I guess none of us are supposed to see or have noticed any of this. Or think that it's hypocritical as hell or says SHITLOADS more about them than it does anyone else.

And if you can stomach the car wreck, then this place is as good as any to see it. As they get closer to the cliff, these people actually SPEED UP instead of slowing down so it should be spectacular.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

344. "Truth crushed to Earth will rise again."

"Truth crushed to Earth will rise again."

-Dr. Martin Luther King

[George II]

356. Excellent....my thoughts but I never could have put them into words like you have - thanks.

[Bobbie Jo]

243. Nailed it.

As I type, I have not yet seen swarms of angry, hostile Hillary supporters swarming BLM's Twitter feed and the Facebook pages of random black folks DEMANDING that we owe her our allegiance and support because of "all she's done for us." I have not seen a single Hillary supporter on DU refer to them as "thugs" or "subhuman" or declare that we have mental illness.

Do they really think that no one remembers the epic ass-showing all over the damn internet?

Well said.

[leftofcool]

284. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Starry Messenger]

343. This.

[NorthCarolina]

130. Yep, basically, Sit down and I'll get to you later...

Her supporters helped her greatly by drowning out BLM shouts so she didn't have to address the interruption herself right then and there. Whew...dodged a bullet.

[bravenak]

132. .

[George II]

140. She handled it exceedingly well. She addressed them immediately and then proceeded with....

.....her comments. She didn't shrink to the back of the stage and cower and leave it to her people.

She's a LEADER, not a follower.

[bravenak]

154. Yes. A leader needs strength.

[Cha]

412. Hillary was very comfortable.. she knew they needed to be there.

[Starry Messenger]

179. I thought the whole video was great.

I love Hell You Talmbout. I also agree with the poster upthread that BLM is having a great primary season. This primary is actually about sharp and immediate issues, and not just a lot of well-meaning slogans about the middle-class, etc. that have been a hallmark of other elections. I give credit to the young Black activists who are making daring moves to be in the agenda. I sure as shit wouldn't have the nerve to wonder if the Secret Service would get edgy if I got too close!

[bravenak]

180. I teared up. I was happy about how it went.

It is so much nicer to have a person confidently echo your sentiments than to walk off in indignation.

[Starry Messenger]

193. Good point!

I know I am biased, but it genuinely felt like a great atmosphere to be in.

[Agony]

210. it is easy when you are behind a security barrier to be dismissive.

Not a particularly strong example of leadership and No comparison with an earlier event.

[bravenak]

217. Why didn't Bernie have a security barrier?

I guess thinking ahead is not a strong suit for his staff. Leaders plan ahead.

[Agony]

233. You're so silly

Cheers

[bravenak]

235. I know. I said this in July too.

Nobody listened then, nobody listens now.

[Agony]

350. that time when Sanders made drug runs with cancerous woman

into a foreign country! with NO SECURITY! He's fucking insane...

[frylock]

211. Especially having the protestors removed. Well done, Hillary!

I like when she told them "let me talk." Some SJWs would take exception to something like, but not the pragmatic ones.

[bravenak]

215. Who told Bernie not to have security? I suggested it myself at one point.

They tried the same thing with Obama and THAT BLACK CROWD also let them know when their time was up. Like whoa!

[frylock]

221. This smacks of Third Way Social Justice to me.

[bravenak]

223. Security? Lololololololol!

[frylock]

226. hahahahaha!!! Someone call security!

[bravenak]

230. So we do not need personal security for high profile candidates?

Interesting.

[bravenak]

245. Perhaps if he had a black crowd like Hillary did, they coulda helped him too without the bad optics.

[Number23]

291. Somebody posted a picture of a black people being hosed with water cannons for fighting for

the right to vote at a black DUer and a fucking jury lets this stand 1-6?? I was not the first alert.

Some of the shit coming out of people's fingers today is absolutely breathtaking.

[bravenak]

300. I alerted. Once that happened I gave up.

Somebody else got him later. Smh
My alerts always fail. Other people work. It must be my alert style.

[stonecutter357]

416. It's your fan club.

[randys1]

456. How is such racist SHIT like that allowed to stand? Fuck this

[zappaman]

423. Wow.

Unfuckingreal.

[luvspeas]

424. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

Oh man! That is SOOOOOOOOOOO fucking funnyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!

[bravenak]

443. I know.

[luvspeas]

444. sorry I got hysterically angry for a second...n/t

justice in frylock's face!

[bravenak]

445. The fact that anyone even THOUGHT it would be cool to toss that out as a weapon against a

Black person shows the level of racial ignorance and insensitivity on that side. I noticed it this summer. Those people have not changed, will never change, and need to be educated because they are ignorant. They black vote WILL NOT go to a side that has people constantly using abusive or aggressive language towards blacks or engaging in bullying or pile on behaiviours.

Look at the op. It is very innocuous. Nothing there to get bent out of shape aboyt. Why did all these people come here to attack me one by one? Do they know how they look? Probably. But you call them like you see them and they will completely forget about their bullying, and play pretend that ONE TINY BLACK WOMAN has bullied them all SINGLEHANDEDLY, be ause she is SOOOO MEAN as to say things like 'Hillary poops skittles and farts gold dust, a vote for Hillary is a vote for free skittles and gold!!!'

I wonder sometimes if people even know how bad they look, trying to get the black vote by being as nasty as possible to each and every black person they meet.

[luvspeas]

446. That's exactly what I told Skinner when I sent him Frylock's PMs...

Saying you thought Hillary handled it well doesn't say that Bernie did or did not. There a a bunch of ametuer slueths on here lately that feel like everything means something else. I say whats I mean and I means what I say. I think you do too. There is no need to read between any lines. don't make me google a tiny black woman image. it could turn out bad. I'm gonna find popeye instead...

[bravenak]

447. I love your sigline.

You have to post on the same thread as the culprit so people can see y'all posting together.

[luvspeas]

448. thanks and done!!!!

I need to put a picture of najee in there too. Not fucking with her is like a day without sunshine.

[azurnoir]

246. Hillary has Secret Service guarding her for life because she's a former FLOTUS

so it's not just any security

[Cha]

335. Hillary didn't run out like bernie did.. What kind of "justice" was that? #BLM did great at

Hillary's gathering with John Lewis and so did Hillary!

#BlackLivesMatter

[gollygee]

425. Social justice is third way? What? n/t

[tishaLA]

427. doncha know? "Identity politics" is third way!

all that "women's issues," "black issues" "Latino issues," "LGBT issues"? All very yesterday. Unless one of them allows you to criticize the candidate you support, in which case it's fine to mention black folks.

[gollygee]

428. Social justice has always been a progressive issue

I don't understand people.

[Cha]

323. Hillary was very Comfortable with #BLM.. she knew they belonged there. And, Hill supporters aren't

all over the net dissing #BLM like BS fans did after Netroots Nation and Seattle.

They need to take lessons about compassion.

[still_one]

237. Didn't see it, but I agree with your assessment of O'Malley

when at the town hall, he reached out to those from Black Lives Matter

[bravenak]

256. I think he would be ahead if Hillary was not in.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

249. handled?

her campaign had BLM thrown out. She did not say please stay

[bravenak]

254. The Black crowd decided their time was up. Just like when they protested Obama.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

257. What are you saying?

[bravenak]

258. Optics.

[MADem]

250. What I appreciated is that she didn't "take offense." She understood and concurred.

I heard that Usher and John Lewis (who were at that shindig--which looked like fun) had a little focus group with some of the people speaking out--it's never a bad idea to gain perspective.

[bravenak]

252. That was what I liked.

She did not seem oppressed by the interruption. She agreed.

[BootinUp]

255. It looked like she gave them some respect

and a chance to air their issue. At least that's what I saw in the video.

[R B Garr]

259. HILLARY ACTED LIKE THEY BELONG THERE

because they do. THIS is THEIR PARTY as a legitimate part of the 99%, not just the disgruntled conspiracy theorists with their corpo talk.

Thanks for the thread, Brave. You and Number23 are offering GREAT ANALYSIS. CAPS THEME

We are lucky to have your voices here.

[bravenak]

260. THANK YOU!

[BootinUp]

267. +1,000,000

[Cha]

336. Agreed, R B Garr! Thank you, Well Said! #BLM was great and so was Hillary!

[TheKentuckian]

263. Yeah, she sat there with her weird nodding behind the barricade while her people and the police

threw their asses out.

How fucking awesome is that?!?

A proud day for America!



BLACK LIVES MATTER!!!

[bravenak]

266. Better than yelling about all she has done for them and then storming off in a huff.

[TheKentuckian]

275. Bullshit, you would have screamed bloody fucking murder.

This whole tact is getting out of sight of a space based telescope of the shit end of pathetic.

Some of y'all might as well start talking Israeli birth certificates or has that already happened?

[bravenak]

277. Everybody knows that I would be on a chair bloviating my ass off. So?

But dude, wtf do you mean about Israeli Birth Certificates? Like I need one or? That really does not make sense to me cause i aint privy to your inside jokes. Not fair.

[TheKentuckian]

285. Well...he is Jewish and his family was in a concentration camp

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 09:01 AM - Edit history (1)

Of course it doesn't have to actually make much sense, just fling some shit against the wall and what doesn't stick leaves a stain.

The ends justify the means and all of that good stuff.

Yeah, I'm sure you would have been all up on here cheering "That's my man, Bernie! Y'all see how he just sat up their cooly bobbing his head whole his people threw those loudmouth motherfuckers out!".

Boo. Far more easier to imagine some asshole would have posted pictures of fire hoses and dogs attacking a civil rights march with some nasty post about Sanders being the new George Wallace you'd reccing and passionately agreeing with it.

[bravenak]

312. Okay

[TheKentuckian]

355. Yup, yup

[Kang Colby]

281. K&R...n/t

[ucrdem]

283. K'n'R

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 12:50 AM - Edit history (1)

[BlueStreak]

286. Let me get this straight - Hillary was speaking at an event that focued 100% on African-American

issues and some dumbasses interrupted her to say she ought to be focused on African-American issues?

Am I missing anything here?

[bravenak]

311. Yes. Exactly. I probably wouldn't say dumbasses. Very enthusiastic.

But it WAS an African Americans for Hillary event discussing ending racial profiling. I am sure something could have been arranged to let them have time to speak. If they had asked.

[BlueStreak]

349. It is all a gotcha thing. "When did you stop beating your wife"

OK. I get the point. Many race problems remain in the US. And this is particularly evident in policing all across the country.

But making the distinction between "Black lives matter" and "All lives matter" is complete bullshit, especially when addressing people who already acknowledge the racial problems in policing and the justice system in general and are already strong supporters of dealing with the remaining race problems in this country.

If these people have specific topics they want to discuss, specific proposals they want support for, fine. Let's have that discussion. But this gotcha stuff is just a bully tactic, and from what I can see, it isn't representative of the African-American community at large.

[randys1]

376. BLM are bullying presidential candidates? sigh...You see the issue at hand is they are being

killed, so bullying doesnt even come into play here.

If white folks did this, the last thing it would be called is bullying.

White folk dont need to do this, of course.

[Cha]

288. Thank you for this, brave.. Hillary did make us proud and so did #BlackLivesMatter!

We need all the great help we can get!

[Vattel]

293. Bernie has responded to BLM voices way better than Clinton has.

He has been calm and respectful. She couldn't even handle a small discussion with them without whitesplaining and jabbing her finger at them. I was embarrassed for her when I watched it.

[CarlaJonesChicago]

302. Im sick of childish behavior

Im black and Im ready for BLM to interrupt Republican candidates! Im sick of them harassing Democrats. Why not schedule meetings and discuss the platform. That is more adult like. If the candidate ducks them then interrupt them. I bet Republicanw wont let them in period! Give people a chance to speak and create lanes for movements like BLM!

[bravenak]

309. Republicans might curb stomp them.

[Bernblu]

322. Yes, Hillary handled it very well indeed!

She had them kicked out on their asses. What we learned is that Black Lives Matter when it is convenient for Hillary.

[Scuba]

329. This may be the most dishonest thread I've ever read on DU.

[randys1]

378. Bravenak is a liar?

[Scuba]

380. Don't try to put words in other's mouths; it makes you look weak and dishonest.

[randys1]

381. So what does this mean, then?

This may be the most dishonest thread I've ever read on DU.

I am the one asking you what your words mean, it appears to me you are saying that the people who think Hillary did good are liars, Bravenak was the first person to say that in the thread.

Hey look, own up to your own words, or dont, up to you.

I am trying to make the point that you are not helping to get a Democrat in the WH, and that is what we should all be doing.

[Scuba]

384. I think you may be operating under the misimpression that Hillary represents Democratic values.

[randys1]

385. Why not apologize for implying Bravenak is a liar. Then we can discuss your political views

Not just Bravenak, anyone who agrees with her

[Scuba]

386. I did not imply that Bravenak is a liar, and deeply resent your suggestion that I did.

[randys1]

387. Then what does this mean: "This may be the most dishonest thread I've ever read on DU."

[Scuba]

388. Why don't you follow Hillary's lead and have it mean whatever you like?

Tomorrow, or the next day, you can change it.

[Cha]

395. I do not think you were "putting words in that poster's mouth".. I thought the same thing.. and it

didn't make you "look weak".. it made her look "weak" for personally attacking you instead of addressing the issue.

Your patience is admirable.

[randys1]

396. Gracias

[Cha]

334. Thank you for your Honesty, Brave!

[CJCRANE]

341. Hooray for Hillary!!!

[wendylaroux]

351. lol!!! very well????

just stop. nobody is perfect,and that is okay.

[Babel_17]

353. "Nick Merrill, a spokesman for Clinton, said the candidate would not meet with the protesters."

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/30/politics/hillary-clinton-black-lives-matter/

After walking off stage, Clinton was met by LaDavia Drane, her director of African-American outreach.

"It's always an adventure," Clinton proclaimed.

Speaking to CNN after the event, Lewis said he believes the protesters "represent another time, another period."

"It is unfortunate that they didn't listen to the secretary," he added.

If I had to predict, I'd say that a decentralized group of activists like Black Lives Matter will be back, and they'll eventually get a meeting. It was a mistake for the spokesperson to directly say no meeting. Unless of course he was promoting a buildup to one. It was a mistake for Clinton endorser John Lewis to say the protesters represent another time. This invites comparisons. And it might be seen as representing a challenge.

Well, campaigns are tapestries, all the events get woven together and it remains to be seen how any one event will look in the finished work. We'll see how well the Clinton campaign does with its stitching, going forward from this.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

357. " It was a mistake for Clinton endorser John Lewis"

Reducing a civil rights icon and hero like John Lewis to a "Clinton endorser" is akin to reducing Muhammad Ali to a boxer who boxed professionally from 1960-1980, reducing Malcolm X to just another Muslim convert, and Frederick Douglass to just another African American activist. John Lewis is the conscience of a generation.

[Babel_17]

363. John Lewis was an attendee

John Lewis is a Democrat. John Lewis is a speaker. John Lewis is lots of things.

In no way does saying he's a Clinton endorser reduce his stature.

https://www.google.com/search?q=John+Lewis+endorses+Clinton

[DemocratSinceBirth]

366. He is a civil rights icon and hero.

It's akin to saying Michael Jordan was merely a basketball player, Jim Brown merely carried a football, Beethoven wrote some music.. You are leaving out the majesty of the men.

In any case, this latest kerfuffle strikes me as "much ado about nothing" and if anything it inures to Secretary Clinton's benefit, the rumblings of her detractors on the "internets" notwithstanding.

[Babel_17]

367. No, it's not akin to that; it's a mention of what he did

I never used, or suggested, "merely".

He endorsed Clinton. Lol, I guess you realize that saying that it's diminishing to describe him as a Clinton endorser has some humor to it?

What next, it's diminishing to call a super-delegate a Clinton endorser? Well, some might agree it doesn't reflect well on them, but that's another story.

If I said "Michael Jordan, now a Clinton supporter, was coming to your town to speak on her behalf", would I have diminished him? Would that be your reaction or would your reaction be that you were happy Jordan was a Clinton endorser, and was coming to speak?

"You are leaving out the majesty of the men"
I get that Congressman Lewis has earned the great respect he has, but I don't think a short snip in a post has to include (or have inherent to it) a mention of his "great majesty". Not that I see him desiring that!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

368. How about this formulation?

John Lewis, civil rights icon , lieutenant to Dr. Martin Luther King, one of the heroes of the march over the Edmund Pettus Street Bridge, and Hillary supporter said__________________________

[Babel_17]

369. :)

We could give him an icon that could stand in place of that.



I made an avatar sized one anyone can use.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

370. Thank you. He is in august company

BTW, I truly don't know how to handle protesters. You have competing free speech interests, the free speech of the protesters and the free speech of the official speakers. A poster said let the protest end naturally. That begs the question. What if their goal is to prevent the official speaker from being heard, at all?

[Babel_17]

371. I don't know either, all I have are theories

I think one aspect of it is pure, raw, politics. People willing to get off their asses and risk being publicly rebuked, and even sanctioned, so as to speak directly to those in power.

It will amount to a fart in a windstorm unless the logistics are good, and there's either actual public support, and/or the possibility to grow support. That part is critical. You have to grow your support.

The government can tell the middle classes that the lower classes are well fed. But when the lower classes march as a multitude banging their empty pots in an illegal parade, the middle classes are likely to show sympathy and disbelieve their government. That's pure politics, it's not waiting for someone to represent you.

When the system has egregiously failed anyone/any group here in the USA, there is the option to practice raw, direct, politics, and to go about speaking directly to the electorate on the issue. If you gain traction, then you build on that. So, the case in point here is the movement of Black Lives Matter.

Allow me to speak in only the broadest terms so as to not needlessly alienate anyone. They've been improving their logistics and they've been building public awareness and public support. They have gained traction on all fronts and are now speaking from a more established position.

But it is at its heart a decentralized movement, and one based on direct action that brings results. So I don't see there coming into existence some well defined, small, committee that will be in charge so that politicians lives will become easier. BLM looks smart in eschewing that as their current setup, though it does have liabilities, makes it much harder to neutralize, marginalize, or discredit, them. Politicians should never think that they've handled the issue of BLM, or addressed the concerns of BLM's leadership. Their concerns are ongoing and their leadership consists of those who rise up to the task and convince others to come along.

The liability in this style of organization is that individual members might lose focus on "the ball". Maybe it's not a liability if you see that the individualism that everyone can bring is a recruiting tool, and is an asset in other ways. Anyway, it keeps the movement fresh. If some individuals are seen by otherwise sympathetic people as going over the top, well, tomorrow is another day, and another chapter allied with BLM will try a different approach.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

372. I am in Los Angeles. The same thing happened here...

Mayor Eric Garcetti was having a town hall with an almost exclusively African American audience in South L A. As in the instance with Hillary Clinton who was speaking in front of an almost exclusively African American audience, members of Black Lives Matter tried to interrupt it and were met with the same cries of let the speaker speak.

I don't know what the solution is. I do know both the mayor and the Secretary are trying to address their concerns , within the confines of a system they didn't create, but one in which they must operate in.

[Babel_17]

377. Ultimately, the public are the referees

It's somewhat established that we don't want to gag and haul away activists, but we do expect an audience to be able to hear the speaker they came for.

Also, numbers count, both bodies at the event, and support on social media. Silent protests get respect though, obviously, they might not get "heard". Indoor events mean you can't be inside with candles, but dressed in black, wearing a gag, holding a LED candle, and encompassing the back of an auditorium, that might get you an invite to speak with a politician after the event. And I think such a presence would be felt by the audience, and heavily noted by the media. Verbal protests outside as well are great, of course.

And again, numbers count. A few people inside keeping someone from speaking has inherently bad optics. Having the numbers, even if they're outside, immunizes a group from looking more disruptive than truly representative.

I'm guessing that the mood of many BLM organizers is that they're committed to getting more of a dialogue going, and they want it ongoing. They might have success in realizing that, and the political landscape will have to adapt.

That's a real logistical challenge, well funded professional politicians have failed at accomplishing less. I'll guess that BLM won't fail, but the story of their gaining ground will be interesting.

[m-lekktor]

374. he is also a politician and people are allowed to criticize him

despite many of you trying to imply otherwise in order to stifle contrary remarks by shaming folks for being less than worshipful. it's a cheap tactic.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

375. In the future maybe you can respond

he is also a politician and people are allowed to criticize him despite many of you trying to imply otherwise in order to stifle contrary remarks by shaming folks for being less than worshipful. it's a cheap tactic.

Nowhere did I suggest Congressman Lewis was above criticism. In the future maybe you can respond to what I wrote instead of what you have wanted me to have written so you would have a casus belli to attack me and impugn my character.


Thank you in advance.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

360. Bwahahahahah. In bizarro universe?

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 05:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Talking over them, silencing them, ejecting them using Secret Service while John Lewis told them them this wasn't the time or place for protest, and the crowd shouted 'ignorant' and 'n*****r' at them?

@_afrodiziak 16h16 hours ago

The secret service forcibly escorted us out of the arena to cries of "ignorance!" and "nigger!" #Hillary4Who #AUCShutItDown

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to believe that some delusional person has hacked your account and is posting this nonsense.

[99Forever]

362. Bullshit.

She "handled" it like the privileged entitled neoliberal phony she is.

[Cha]

397. Haha! Hillary handled it well! And, her supporters have been gracious unlike BS supporters after

#BLM interrupted him at netroots and Seattle.

[bravenak]

401. At least it won't end up like this deleted article.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251505656

If you check on their site they removed it cause too stupid. After this kinda reaction to blm from the other side, I am FINE with Hillary.

[Gothmog]

373. Hillary Clinton did a good job here

[Persondem]

383. Indeed she did. Thank you.

It was wrong when BLM crashed Sanders speech and it was wrong when they did that to Clinton. If they want a stage so badly they can get their own. Any group wanting to make a statement can certainly do so but they do NOT have the right to interfere with another person's event.

And yes, having them removed was the right thing to do. It would have been ok for Bernie to do the same. Two differences - Clinton is a former FLOTUS and so has SS protection. You don't mess with the SS. ... and that was her event; the other event was not Bernie's event. He was just a speaker.

K & R

[mhatrw]

389. LOL. What would she have had to do for you to criticize her response? nt

[bravenak]

404. Have stuff like this posted?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251505656

[rbrnmw]

418. Yep

[AgingAmerican]

399. She played them like a fiddle!

Much to your delight!

[bravenak]

400. Lol!

Remember this?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251505656

Ask yourself why I changed.

[AgingAmerican]

402. So you were for BLM before you were against them?

Er, um...ok.

[bravenak]

403. I am not against them. I am for both groups of blacks attendending the event.

The group discussing racial profiling in our police and the disruptors. I may not always agree on tactics, but I support both causes and their right to speak out. Perhaps they did not realize that the event was discussing racial profiling or perhaps they did not care because tge point was to protest Hillary. Nevertheless I say 'good on them!' For speaking out abd telling her they woukd be heard and not to take them for granted. She knows by now that she will also be protested. I see no losers here.

[AgingAmerican]

407. Your hypocrisy on the whole matter is stunning

Her 'supporters' have gone a bridge too far with this one. Her supporters tacitly admit they care about nothing. Their hypocrisy is now unhidable. Hillary matters more to them than Black lives. All their outrage at Bernie's handling of BLM was an act. They have exposed themselves as empty suits.

They wildly contradict their own OPs.

Hillary's loudest supporters have become caricatures of themselves, IMHO.

[bravenak]

408. Yeah.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=10027060303&info=1#recs

Too far you say?

[stevenleser]

459. Ouch! nt

[bravenak]

460. Child's play.nt

[Cha]

411. "Your hypocrisy on the whole matter is stunning" That gets boomerranged right backatcha.

[questionseverything]

405. she handled it in the usual clinton way

she had the cops drag them out

[bravenak]

406. Seems like the crowd was like black and discussing racial profiling and maybe were also

victims of oppression. Well, now hillary knows she can get protested. Amazing what having lots of blacks in your crowd can do for the optics when you get protested by BLM. Then nobody has to do this. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=10027060303&info=1#recs

[mhatrw]

409. Yep. Those police were just an optical illusion. nt

[bravenak]

410. Why would you say that?

[rbrnmw]

419. You and I both know why

I want to say also Hillary has Secret Service protection the security is like President Obama's. So it might be a bit different than another candidate. This is getting crazy the twisting is something else.

[GitRDun]

451. I'm a little late getting to this thread, but I wanted to thank you for posting it..

It was wildly entertaining and educational.

I got to learn that the candidate who has a big lead in a political race is obligated to ask for more debates, even though there is no upside to having more debates when you are leading...lol like we all would do that.

I got to learn it's OK for some to use pictures of black people being hosed down by police or attacked by police with dogs as a response to a post you disagree with.

It was also fascinating to come to the realization that a group whose stated goal is to not have people of their color killed indiscriminately by police, can be considered terrorist, should go bother those guys, not our guys, etc.

And the climax, when protesting at a political speech that covers the topic you are advocating for, it's never appropriate to tell you OK, we get you, we are with you, can I give the speech now?

People are just.....fascinating...and welcome back!

[bravenak]

454. It is amazing what such an innocent thread can bring out in people.

I'm starting to think it was only controversial because I posted it. I bet you can find ten people to say that this thread is evidence of ME bullying THEM. Lol@ one five foot tall black lady bullying the entirety of DU by posting innocuous threads.

What if I TOOK AN AGGRESSIVE TONE?!?!?! Bananas. Absolutely bananas. I bet the Cave Is absolutely cracking up @ how easy it is for one person to drive them nuts without even trying. Well. Not very hard. I know that the mere act of me posting hurts them most severely. Combine that with overt politeness and facts... Lol. Pandemonium!! Lord I wish they'd just calm down and stop feeling oppressed.

[GitRDun]

455. lmao "stop feeling oppressed" eom